Why Big Law Almost Killed My Career and How Betting on Myself Changed Everything

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Are you on a journey of success and need some helpful tips? In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, Tyson chats with Marc Brown, a former big law insurance defense attorney who shares his inspiring journey to founding a successful personal injury firm and co-owning a restaurant. The conversation explores his career pivots, marketing strategies and the challenges of competing with national firms. 

Marc shares his experience in pivoting in his career and what success means when starting a new path. Because he was unhappy with his career as a lawyer, he decided to leave to become an entrepreneur and found a new path of happiness. Success can come in many ways and for Marc, it was knowing he achieved his goal of being a lawyer but deciding on a new goal and pursuing it. It is completely fine to want to change your direction in life and if you decide to do so, put as much good energy out there to ensure it comes back to you when you are working on something new.

Marc and Tyson discuss personal brands and the need to stay true to yours. It is important to understand your own DNA and what you represent. Once you determine this, make it your personal brand. Learn your capabilities, what makes you happy and what you can offer people. That way, people are getting to know you for you and not only for what you offer. Being true to yourself will always lead to success!

Listen in to learn more!

• 1:46 Redefining Success and Career Direction 
• 11:31 Advice Lawyers Facing Tough Choices
• 23:46 Billboard Marketing Pitfalls 
• 28:41 Adapting to Competition 
• 33:19 Staying True to Your Personal Brand 
  
  

Tune in to today’s episode and checkout the full show notes here. 


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Creators and Guests

Host

Tyson Mutrux

Tyson is the founder of Mutrux Firm Injury Lawyers and the co-founder of Maximum Lawyer.

What is Maximum Lawyer?

Maximum Lawyer is the podcast for law firm owners who want to scale with intention and build a business that works for their life.

Hosted by Tyson Mutrux, each weekly episode features candid conversations with law firm owners, business experts, and industry leaders sharing real strategies and lessons learned in the trenches.

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Tyson Mutrux 00:00:00 So, Mark, you started in insurance defense in big law. I believe and I think a lot of attorneys, they choose that path for a variety of reasons. something it's a safe path, something that, you know, that's the way where you can go and you make a lot of money. And so I wonder, when did it become clear to you that staying in that world wasn't the right path for you?

Marc Brown 00:00:24 it became clear pretty early on. I didn't act on it for a while, but, you know, all through law school, they know they preached through us. Big law, big law, big law. so that's what that's all I knew. That's what I thought would be the major point for my success if I made it to a top 100 law firm. So once I got there, you know, I realized early on that might not be the career path for me. I remember during my first year of practicing, I was actually in the restroom because I would, I guess I can say it now.

Marc Brown 00:00:56 It doesn't matter. But every now and then I would run and hide and install just to get a breath of fresh air. And I was in there and my partner came in and was at the urinal and another lawyer came in and he said, hey, man, how's it going? Yeah. You know, living the dream. Yeah. Six minutes at a time. God, our lives suck. And I'm sitting here listening to this. I'm like, wait a minute, you've been doing this all these years, and you're so much. Your life sucks. So, you know, from, you know, I did that for like, five years between big law and and I went down to a more regional insurance defense firm. and and then I got out of there.

Tyson Mutrux 00:01:35 Did it feel like a failure whenever you were like, okay, I chose this path, and it just didn't work out. Did it feel like it was like it was something you failed at, or did you view it differently?

Speaker 3 00:01:45 No, I still.

Marc Brown 00:01:46 Saw it as a success because that was my goal to get there and I achieved that. But even worse than failure, I felt like I chose the wrong career. I did not want to be a lawyer. Being a lawyer is not for me. I wasted all this time, this money, this effort. And I'm telling people, don't go to law school. I don't enjoy being a lawyer. But I didn't realize that I loved being a lawyer. I just didn't like the setting and that I was working in.

Tyson Mutrux 00:02:16 It's amazing how things like that can happen, because I remember I kind of felt that way about law school at some point until I took trial advocacy, and then everything kind of changed for me. It was like, okay, this is why I'm here. All this other crap is just nonsense is just crap. So, did you so you were you were in the bathroom stall, right? And you had that moment. How much time went by from that moment to when you actually pull the trigger and you.

Tyson Mutrux 00:02:43 And you got out of there?

Marc Brown 00:02:45 Okay, so that was towards the end of my first year. and I worked on the defense side for a little over five years. So it was about three and a half years after that. It that that put it in my mind that this wasn't for me. And I didn't think, oh, I can go and be a plaintiff lawyer or angel or whatever. I didn't think about change it. I just thought that I screwed up and I don't need to be a lawyer. I was worried about it. Am I going to be one of those guys that's, you know, when I get 40 or 50 years old, I'm just looking back on my life, upset and grumpy. But, as I kept, you know, progressing and sticking it out because I learned a lot, I got a lot of great experience working in that setting. But about three and a half years later, I'm like, okay, I've learned quite a bit. I've been doing this for I was at that point it was like 4 or 4 and a half years.

Marc Brown 00:03:34 I have the tools and the skills I need. And I met all these plaintiff lawyers and they sent they they seemed so happy, like I didn't understand. Why are you so happy? I'm not. And so then I started asking the questions that needed to be asked, like, how much money are you making? Or walk me through? What is an everyday? What is your daily activity? What is it like? you don't have to build hours. And once I learn all that. Like, okay, I think I'll be happier in that setting and that type of practice and you know, and then when I went to the insurance defense, I'm seeing all these people that I had no idea how many people get injured. Like, I had no idea there were so many car accidents, so many people that needed injury lawyers. But now I'm seeing all these people that need help, and I know that I have the tools to be able to switch sides and help them. And plus, I enjoy talking with the defendants so much more than I enjoy talking with the insurance adjusters and all the corporate people because I'm a people person.

Marc Brown 00:04:34 So I want to talk with people, not businesses or entities. So it it was the perfect fit for me.

Tyson Mutrux 00:04:41 Did the fact that you were a pretty young father, did that have any effect on how long it took you to start your own firm?

Marc Brown 00:04:48 It did. because I knew I couldn't mess up. when you don't have as many responsibilities, you can start over, you can mess up. And that's what you know. That's where life works. But, I had my son when I was 18 years old, so it didn't afford me the opportunity to make as many mistakes, because if I made a mistake, it didn't just affect me. It affected my son. and, you know, working in big law or working on the defense side, I made a lot of money. So I'm going to give this up a steady paycheck, and I'm gonna give this up in the hopes that people will call and hire me, versus those big law firms with all the marketing budget. Why are they going to call me? How am I going to succeed? But, I felt like I could do it.

Marc Brown 00:05:39 So I just stepped out on faith, and it worked out, thankfully.

Tyson Mutrux 00:05:42 Yeah, it definitely takes a lot of faith, a lot of courage to give up those golden handcuffs and go and go out and start something like that, especially like a personal injury firm, because you unless you start with a bunch of cases already, you are in the negative for several months before you. Unless you get lucky in a wrongful death case, walks in through the door and you settle it right away like that's you're in the negative. So how did that affect your decision making to to open up a personal injury firm?

Marc Brown 00:06:11 that's a great question. I'm gonna answer your question and I'm gonna come back and talk about that wrongful death case that walks in the door. But, I, I didn't want to open up a personal injury law firm. Once I made the decision, I started putting feelers out, trying to find other law firms that I could go work for. I never wanted to operate my own law firm. and every lawyer that was interested in me wasn't interested in paying me what I felt like I was worth.

Marc Brown 00:06:41 And let's be honest, everybody thinks they're worth more than they really should be paid. Everybody. I think I was pretty reasonable, but it just wouldn't work out. So I was forced to have to open up my own law firm. so I saved up what I thought would be enough money to carry me and all my overhead for eight months. so I saved up to dip into my savings, sold some of my investments and all the art. I'm gonna be able to do this. I got to month six, which was, January 1st. so going into the seventh month, I had no money to pay rent. I had no money left. but, it worked out. To where? On the the I opened on July 1st. Seven days later. July 8th. I got a phone call, and it was a wrongful death case. And the the the individual, the unfortunate loss of life. not go deep into the facts. 1130 a night, dark, dark road. No lights. And they're walking in the middle of the roadway and, you know, having drink and stuff.

Marc Brown 00:07:50 And they were hit, so everything was pointing to them being at fault. But I fought the case, I filed on it, and then November they offered me a six figures. They offered me six figures and I hadn't made any money. I had made no money since I opened because all these cases that are coming in, they're pending. And I saw my money was running short, but I refused to settle that case because that's not getting the client what they deserve. Then somehow in July, the attorney they got assigned to it. I guess they realized that I wasn't going to back down, and they actually tendered the policy limits. So the first case I ever resolved happened to be a very large case, and it came at a time when I told all my bill collectors, I can't pay you. I'll get you all whenever if I didn't have lights. Oh, well, I'm not selling my client short, but everything worked out.

Tyson Mutrux 00:08:45 I guess that takes. That takes a lot of guts. Where? Where does that come from? Is that something from your background? Because that's not something that's easy to do.

Marc Brown 00:08:53 I don't come from a lot of money. I don't I've not, you know, and I am comfortable with not having. even when I worked at my first, you know, first part of my career, I made good money. But I didn't live above my means, I lived. I'm I don't need this. and when I opened up my practice, part of my drive came from seeing so many lawyers when I was on the defense side that I felt weren't doing it correctly. they were worrying about how much money they were going to make. They were worrying about their business and not worrying about the client. the client, which is a number my law firm would never be about a client being about the number. It's always about the client, not about me or anybody. so, yeah, I could have put some good money in their pocket, and I could have made the largest amount of money that I'd ever received at one time in my life, but that was not fair to the individual that lost their life or to his family.

Marc Brown 00:09:51 And I would have. Yeah, there's no way I would have sold them short.

Tyson Mutrux 00:09:56 Do you think that your clients at the time that they understood the pressure that you were going through?

Marc Brown 00:10:02 Oh, it didn't never. No. The pressure. I'm not going to sweat in front of people no matter what. Calm and cool. Calm and collected. You know, no matter what I'm going. What I'm going through doesn't matter. It's only a matter about the client. So there was no need for them to know anything about what I'm going through. I had the skills and had the resources to make sure they got the good result, and that's all they knew. And that's all I care to share with them.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:24 You know, it's easy to say that in right now with, with hindsight and all that. It's really easy to say that. I, I wonder. I wonder what advice you might give to, another lawyer that's just starting out that maybe, maybe facing that same situation because that's a really difficult decision and it's really easy for us to say, yeah, really? Even if it didn't happen to you, it'd be really easy for us to.

Tyson Mutrux 00:10:49 Monday. Monday morning quarterback and say, oh, well, you know, you did a really good job there or you should have done this or you should have done that. But I wonder what advice you might give to someone that's in that moment, because that is a real world business decision. It's also a real world ethical decision that for your business it could be and for your personal life, you know, a six figure case. Yeah. It was it's underselling what that case is worth. But it's it's much needed money for you and your firm. And you didn't sell your client down the river. You made a really tough decision and one that benefited your client. So what is your advice to to people that might be facing that same situation whenever they're starting their firms?

Speaker 3 00:11:31 The only way, the only advice I have to them is.

Marc Brown 00:11:34 Is that.

Speaker 3 00:11:35 Karma.

Marc Brown 00:11:36 Exists. The energy that you put out in the world will come back to you. and there's a reason why certain lawyers are so successful and do so well compared to some other lawyers.

Marc Brown 00:11:47 if you take shortcut, you'll be cutting yourself short. If you do people wrong, then wrong. You know. You know, people are going to do you wrong. So I, I've strong believer I'm a strong believer that the energy that you put out is what you will receive. and if you are selling your clients short, you might make a few pennies, a few dollars today, that that money won't last long. Word will get out. you know, the calls won't come in. And not only that, but the defense lawyers that you were working against, they know you're a pushover. They know that you'll take the lowball offer and word travels. They have listserv. We all have listservs. They're going to talk about you. So just do what's right. Stick to your guns and serve your clients.

Tyson Mutrux 00:12:33 All right, so tell me about, is it Big Dave's cheesesteaks? Is that. Yeah, big Dave's cheesesteaks. Tell me about that.

Speaker 4 00:12:39 Oh, yeah. I love food. so.

Marc Brown 00:12:42 My wife and I were big foodies, and I get fixated very easily. So with my law firm, I think that's why I was able to have such good growth so quickly, because I just got fixated on the business, and then once I got everything running like a well-oiled machine, I was like, all right, I want to do something else. And what's better than food? I mean, you ever had an authentic cheesesteak from Philadelphia? I mean, they're the best. So we found this restaurant concept called big day cheesesteaks. the CEO, Derek Hayes, he's out of Philadelphia, but he moved to Atlanta, opened up his first location, and it blew up. And, my God, the food is good. So my wife and I was like, hey, we like cheesesteaks. We want to open a restaurant. Let's do it. So, yeah. So I practiced law, and I sell cheesesteaks.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:36 That's, that's really incredible. So you've got you've got the location in Columbia, and then you've got one that's coming to Greenville.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:43 Is that right?

Marc Brown 00:13:44 Yeah. Greenville, South Carolina will be open in the first half of next year.

Tyson Mutrux 00:13:47 Got a got a buddy Brooks Derek that lives out that way. So I'm sure he's going to love those those those cheesesteaks. So that's awesome. How much time do you spend on the cheesesteaks and how much time do you spend on the law firm?

Marc Brown 00:14:00 Luckily, I don't have to spend much time on the cheesesteaks. because my my partner is my wife. so shout out Doctor Kierra Brown. she she does the heavy lifting for the most part, but we have a director of operations that runs everything for us. So, you know, I sit on the calls and I listen, and when she nudges me, I say, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I chime in then, so I don't spend as much time on the, on the cheesesteak restaurant because, you know, my firm is still growing. So I'm spending 90% of my time with the law firm.

Tyson Mutrux 00:14:36 Yeah. I wonder, because this is a question I get quite a bit. And I wonder how you manage your time because you've got. You've got the franchises. And then you also you've got the law firm. You're married. You're you're you're you're a parent. and you're going to be teaching. I don't know if you if you've started yet at South Carolina State University where you're like, you're going to be teaching practice law and then also legal research. So how do you manage your time. That's a that's a that's got to be a tough one.

Marc Brown 00:15:03 Yeah. I don't sleep and I've given up eating quite, quite a bit. you know I have. So let's talk about the law firm because that's primary. I have great staff. We have a lot of, you know, our procedures in the firm, and it runs like a pretty well-oiled machine at this point. you know, it's not just me. I have my big head over all the billboards, but it's not just me. It's two other lawyers there.

Marc Brown 00:15:29 we have all the support staff. I think it's probably about 15 people at this point. so it. Yeah, I have a lot of help. the restaurant. You know, my wife and the director of operation. And each of our locations had a general manager there. So it's, you know, not much from me. And the teaching is a is a, you know, one day a week gig. I've not started yet. We're getting my lesson plan and all of that stuff worked out. And I should be starting in fall of next year. So it's it's going to be interesting when the, the teaching aspect starts. But, right now life's great.

Tyson Mutrux 00:16:08 At what point did you add the billboards and what was what things did you consider whenever you decided to go that route?

Marc Brown 00:16:15 So you have to market, new lawyers. There's some lawyers say, oh, I don't do billboards, I don't market. That's because they've already been out and built a name for themselves through somebody else's law firm or somewhere or another.

Marc Brown 00:16:30 if you're starting out, you can have all the experience in the world. I mean, what an experience you're starting out. You could be the greatest lawyer and have all the skills in the world. Nobody knows it. You have to get your name out. For whether you network or whatever you choose to do. You have to market. It's a form of marketing. I chose to start with social media. That was my first start with marketing. My law firm, because I didn't have any money. once money started coming in, which was probably years. I started July 1st of 2019. My first billboard went up September 2020. one billboard went up in Sumter, South Carolina, my hometown. Drove down the street, saw I pulled over the side of the street so I could go out and take a picture. and and it worked. One. And then when your kids start coming out, you just keep adding on, adding on. And now people ask me, how many billboards do you have? And like, I don't know, once we got above 50, I quit counting.

Tyson Mutrux 00:17:29 I love that during a time of September 2020, that's whenever people were pulling all their money out of marketing. They were starting to hoard all their money because they were afraid about what the future was. You put the gas pedal down and that's that had to have been a risky or was definitely a risky decision. But had it been a scary decision to make?

Marc Brown 00:17:50 It wasn't scary because you said a key word there. a lot of people were afraid. They were afraid to lose what they already had. Man, I didn't have anything. I'm new to this. You know what I'm saying. So I've not had anything before. You know I I'll say whatever. So I'm about to just save my little bit of money. Nah we just throw it at it. Let's do this. I did all the other law firms because I wasn't fortunate enough to like the Pep loans and all that stuff. You had to have salary people for. So I didn't have any of that because I started, you know, in 2019, I didn't, and I wasn't even on a salary my first year.

Marc Brown 00:18:23 So I didn't get any government assistance, any help. I took the money that I worked for, never took out a loan from a bank or anything. I used my money to build my law firm and I put it all tours, you know. Marketing in my firm. you got to bet on yourself if you don't believe in yourself enough to bet on yourself, why are you opening up a business?

Tyson Mutrux 00:18:45 Did you start the social media marketing before exiting your prior firm, or when did you start that? Because you started to get cases pretty quickly. So how did that work?

Marc Brown 00:18:54 I started it in I, so I took one month off from the time I left, the insurance defense firm. Till the time I opened my door. I think I left the firm the first few days of June 2019. and I started making post just about, you know, my desire to help people and feeling conflicted because I'm on the defense side, you know, I started setting up the picture, and then July 1st, when I opened that morning at 9 a.m., I put out a post introducing my law firm and reintroducing myself and talk about what all I've done in the last five or so years.

Marc Brown 00:19:36 And the reason why my law firm and I said, the number one way that you can support me in this endeavor is to share this post. And it had over 400 shares and my phone started ringing that week.

Tyson Mutrux 00:19:51 So the going from an insurance defense mindset to the plaintiff side is that's not easy for people to do. So how are you able to make that mindset shift?

Marc Brown 00:20:03 when you talk, are you talking about more so on how to evaluate cases against them?

Tyson Mutrux 00:20:07 Exactly, yes.

Marc Brown 00:20:10 I was very selective of the cases I, I signed up and brought in because in my mind, all the plaintiffs are not telling the truth because they I didn't know it, but they instilled that in my brain. Yeah. Like working on defense side and I didn't. It took me several months to realize it. I'm like, wait a minute. But I think the case that really proved it to me was that that one case that I mentioned where the gentleman lost his life because all the facts showed that it wasn't the driver's fault, it wasn't another car, the car's fault.

Marc Brown 00:20:45 And I didn't think I mentioned he was walking in the road. It was a automobile versus pedestrian. But when I met his mother, I was so hurt and I felt her emotions and I didn't care. It wasn't about right or wrong. It was about helping this woman. And I didn't care. I was going to do anything I could to help this woman. And then once that case resolved, I was like, wait a minute, maybe I'm not looking at these cases right there. You know, I don't have to be as a defense minded, with each of these cases. And it took a while to shift my brain. I think that really it took probably a good three years before a complete shift.

Tyson Mutrux 00:21:30 Do you think that putting up billboards puts a target on your back. And if so, I guess, what are your thoughts on that?

Marc Brown 00:21:37 I think it does. I think anything you do puts a target on you. billboards are going to put targets on you in two ways. Billboards and TV commercials.

Marc Brown 00:21:48 there are always going to be other lawyers that talk down on billboard lawyers. or talk down on lawyers said have TV commercials. I crack jokes on billboards. Lawyers too. I'm a billboard lawyer. I don't I don't care. but but, you know, it's just like they're pretty much they're talking down because they really wish they had those boards, and they get a lot of cases from the billboard lawyers to refer it in, and then some clients, it cuts out a part of the, of the, of the population that will actually hire you because some clients, some potential clients, they don't want a lawyer that's up on billboards, or it's on TV. So what I chose to do is try because I can't say I did it completely, but I tried to make all of my billboard designs and anything that I put on TV. Not like other lawyers. There's very it's very tasteful. you really get I hope that people get a sense of my true personality from my marketing. I try to make my marketing different from the other market that I see in my in my area.

Marc Brown 00:22:52 In my market. and then even the, the the local TV station, the main TV station in, in my market is Wish-tv. And they came in with an offer for a segment called The Legal Minute. So every Thursday during the 6:00 news, I'm able, they provide me one minute to come in and provide a little bit of legal information that runs. And that's a way for everybody in the community to really get a better feel for who I am and to see me speak on camera. each week. And, you know, I try to keep everything tasteful so people can get a real taste of my personality and know that I'm here to help them.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:28 Yeah. And you can turn all that into social media campaigns. You can. You can take photographs of you behind the scenes and shoot videos about before you're about to go up. You can do you can turn that one little minute into so much content. That's I think that's that's that's a really it's a really smart thing to do. Back to the billboard.

Tyson Mutrux 00:23:46 So here's my thing. Here's my I worked for a billboard firm. I worked for a volume firm. And I've always had the saying, if you put up billboards, you get billboard clients and I'll tell you my perspective. And I think that there's a right way of doing it and there's a wrong way of doing it. At least the firm that I worked for, the problem that they did they had, was they would take their all of their line of credit, they would spend all their money on the advertising. And then we were hustling until September to get these cases turned. Because it does work. It does drive cases, but it limits the cases. You can you can, you can take on. You're limited to the a very specific subset of premises cases that you can take on because those take longer. Generally you have to take the easy car crash cases. If it's complicated, you're you're probably not going to take on a complicated car crash case. You're probably going to refer those things out.

Tyson Mutrux 00:24:36 So you. It limits the cases you can take. You're you're very cookie cutter and you're just. I think it does force you to be in a position like we were talking about before, where you are, you're trying to turn the cases so that you and you could you could put yourself in a tough business decision. Okay. Am I going to turn this case or do I need to settle that case so I can pay off my line of credit, like that kind of thing? So it can it can really put some of these firms, these volume firms in a really tough crunch if they're not turning the cases fast enough. So that's my that's really my only thing against it. If you can put them up and if you have a if you have an entire campaign around it like you have. Right. Because the another mistake that I see people make is they just put up, they'll put up a couple billboards and that's it. And they're like, well, I'm not getting any results. Yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:25:24 No, you're not getting any results because there's no you have no campaign. You don't have a radio campaign attached to it or a TV campaign, or you're not going on TV for a minute to talk about it. You don't have a social media campaign surrounded it. It's got to be part of an overarching campaign. You can't just throw up a couple billboards. So it sounds like you're probably doing it the right way. So I do tease billboard lawyers sometimes, because I used to be one. I used to work for that firm, so I guess I would technically be one at that at that point. So that's my only poo pooing of it. So I don't I don't here's what I don't want. Listeners are like, well, you didn't say anything about the billboard lawyer when you came on. So I kind of joke about it too. But I do think that there is a right way of doing it. I think that I think that sounds like you probably are doing it the right way, and I can tell you that your heart is in the right position, right in the right spot.

Marc Brown 00:26:09 Yeah. And I agree with you, man. I tell you, I created jokes from billboard lawyers. I crack jokes on myself all the time because, yeah, it's there are more that are doing it the wrong way, I think, than the right way. and those that are doing it the right way, they know. They know they're doing it the right way and vice versa.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:27 Yeah. And I mean, there's a reason why Morgan Morgan's doing it, right? Morgan and Morgan has a whole. It's a it's it's a part of an entire campaign. And here's the an part of it, too. They can litigate the files. They've got the mechanics of the world where they can litigate the files. If you're if you're putting up billboards and you're not litigating files, those are the ones doing it the wrong way because you are leaving so much money on the table, they know that all you're going to do is you're going to get it up to a certain point, they're going to lowball you, and then you're just going to settle it.

Tyson Mutrux 00:26:57 That's what's going to happen. So if they know it's got someone like on the other side like you, where you're going to litigate the file, it's a different situation.

Marc Brown 00:27:05 Yeah. Yeah. It's funny you brought up the Morgan. Morgan. They just came into my market this year and it's it's been an interesting experience.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:14 Yeah. They came to Missouri. They came to Saint Louis a few, a few years ago, and it was, it's definitely had an effect on the market. You you had the big the big dog in Saint Louis was Brown and Crouppen, and yet Brown and Crouppen, he had brown and brown. Those were like the big two that were in Saint Louis and Brown and Crouppen. They've been this they've been a really good attack dog of of having these because for years, ever since I've been practicing and probably well before that, you had out-of-town firms, these big volume firms coming into town, and then they would try to, you know, do a bunch of marketing and peel off a bunch of the market share for Brown and Crouppen and Brown and Crouppen would go on TV and run these ads.

Tyson Mutrux 00:27:54 There would be something like, you know, we don't care if you don't hire us, but we want you to hire a Saint Louis firm, a local firm. And it was effective. It was really, really effective. But Morgan Morgan just got too much money. And they got they. I don't know if you had this in in Columbia, South Carolina, but in Saint Louis they were running ads saying, who it was all these innuendos about size and who was bigger. And it was it was wild. I couldn't believe it. But the thing is, is that cash is king, and. And Morgan and Morgan end up winning that battle, I'd say. But they peeled off a bunch of that market share. But they are. It's one of those things where they're they're spreading all over. So I wonder, how is them coming into your market? How has that affected things?

Marc Brown 00:28:41 it was interesting. Not I was very I was worried when Morgan Morgan came, I got when they were coming a couple of years ago.

Marc Brown 00:28:48 And then when they came. Oh, crap. Here we go. But I haven't, you know, I haven't done much different since they got here. And this has been the the growth this year has been crazy. So it's almost like they're coming here and they're teaching everybody in the market. You need to hire a lawyer. You need to make a claim. And they're like Morgan Morgan's right. Let's call Mark Brown. So so I mean I'm cool with it. like yeah, it's been I was worried, but it's been good so far.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:18 Yeah. Their their whole strategy and coming into a market is really interesting because and I don't know how it worked with, with you, but they came in. They bought a firm, a, an established firm in, in Saint Louis, an attorney that's pretty well respected in Saint Louis and, and kind of took over that office. And then they had people that would go out all over the state and they would just drop into our office. Hey, we want to set up a referral relationship.

Tyson Mutrux 00:29:46 And they would drop off tens of popcorn and food. And it was it was an interesting thing that they would do. I wonder if they if they did something similar for you all.

Marc Brown 00:29:56 they did not buy at another law firm. They, they started first with bringing the popcorn and the, the folders and just give us your bad cases. You don't want the small cases. We just just do us. And I hope I know that some lawyers are around that fell for it because pretty much what they're doing is giving them a plug into your connections. They're adding people to retarget marketing to, and they're making a name for themselves in the community. So you help feed the machine, which I respect anyway. And because even more and more, I love it. I mean, I respect that for him. That's a he's he's done an amazing job building that firm that. Yeah, I respect and I try to learn from them. But

Tyson Mutrux 00:30:37 You know that they were they were like legit whenever they're you see them on like their their running ads on podcast interviews like, like in like the biggest podcast in the world, like, so that's how big Morgan Morgan is right.

Tyson Mutrux 00:30:50 They're not some just regional injury from they're a global brand which is what's really fascinating.

Marc Brown 00:30:57 Yeah is fascinating is the word. But but yeah. So they got the network, the networks, and then they opened up a small satellite shop here with one lawyer, and they've been steadily building from there.

Tyson Mutrux 00:31:08 Gotcha. That's interesting because that's it's, I've heard I guess it's a few different ways. I've heard them doing it. That's. I guess that's one of them. but the it's I have heard at least that the main way that they've been doing it is they've been essentially taking over a firm, which to me is sounds like a really, really expensive thing to do is actually buying a firm instead of just putting in, you know, one lawyer and running all the cases through like some central location. that's, that's that's basically what, what they were doing in some of these other ones. But I wonder if when you started, if you would kind of think back, have have things gone as well as you expected them to way better.

Marc Brown 00:31:52 I, I, I could have never imagined, how things have gone, I don't, I don't even understand how they've gone this well, but, No, this was my wildest dreams. And and again, that's why I'm able to say, you know, if you just do right by people and put the the, the blessings and the karma out, it comes back to you tenfold. you know, I'm just a little kid from country behind city. stump two, South Carolina. And then in my I can't remember. It was my fourth or my fifth year. It was my fifth year. there's a, a company of Inc. 5000 where they rate, like, the fastest growing companies in the, in the country. And, and my firm was actually ranked on there because of growth related to revenue. and I never would have could have been imagined to be named on a list like that before and listed so highly on it. I actually always thought I had to pull it up to see where it was on it out of the 5000 companies that were on the list.

Marc Brown 00:33:01 I was the number is 670. and between 2022 and 2024, my law firm had 701% growth in revenue. So it's just like and then every year it's just been I don't know, I don't know, I just do right by people and it'll come back to you. That's the only thing I can preach.

Tyson Mutrux 00:33:19 Yeah, well, I mean, it's good advice. I'm going to read this quote to you from Gary Vaynerchuk and get your get your thoughts on it. He says you have to understand your own personal DNA. Do not do things because I do them. Or Steve Jobs or Mark Cuban tried it. You need to know your personal brand and stay true to it. Can you speak to that? Yeah.

Marc Brown 00:33:38 No. Like, once you learn who you are. Learn your capabilities. Learn what makes you happy and what you can offer to the world. If you know that whatever business you're in, whether you're selling cheesesteaks, practicing law, selling cars, you're going to be successful. you know, you have, but you have to truly know as you and be true to yourself.

Marc Brown 00:34:01 There are so many other lawyers that do things on social media that I can copy, and I can be funnier. I maybe I can make my video funnier than this one. I get more clicks than this one, but that's not my personality. I'm not being true to myself. you know, it's like I. And it's probably a little bit too much information, but I have a tattoo on, that says, am I cool yet? And when I went to get it, I told him I want him to tattoo it. Like a little five year old is laying down watching cartoons with a crayon, right. Like that, because so many people, including myself included. If you're growing up, you want to be cool. You want to fit in. You want to be like, you want all this. But nah, you don't need to be cool. Be yourself. Just be yourself. being different is cool, and as long as you're true to yourself, you'll succeed. And if you don't succeed, at least you'll still be happy.

Tyson Mutrux 00:34:52 I'm so glad I asked you that question now, because that is, That was. That's such a cool story. It's it's a really nice reminder, too. that's so cool. I am curious, would you do your marketing? Do you include things about, like, the cheesesteaks and all that? Like how much of your personal, your personal life do you include in your marketing?

Marc Brown 00:35:14 I don't include. I keep the marketing for the cheesesteaks and the the law firm completely separate. The only time that they're they're not they're together, but sometimes they're beside themselves. So a lot of, let me back up. So, you know, all business and law firms, they sponsor stuff in their community and give away turkeys, all that stuff. Well, my firm, I'm actually engrained with so many different entities in my community that I'm naturally a part of everything. So people get tired of hearing my name and seeing me outside because I'm literally there. It's not just my law firm, you know, they're going to see me.

Marc Brown 00:35:52 And so I'm a part of everything. And since I'm a part of everything, people just go ahead and put Mark Brown law firm on it and then they'll put big days cheesesteaks on it also. So it's, you know, just the relationships I've built up and, you know, all the people that I help, whether through the law firm or personal life, is just I just, you know, make friends, build relationships. And that's how the cheesesteak and law firm get marketed together. But I don't do. I try not to do cross marketing myself.

Tyson Mutrux 00:36:20 So you're that guy in Columbia, South Carolina that, you know, you're driving down Main Street and someone's like, hey, that's Marc Brown. Do you know he also has a cheesesteak store? Like, like. Like, you know, I mean, like, he's like, he's an injury firm and he's got, like, a cheese store, a cheesesteak restaurant. Like, he like, you're that guy.

Marc Brown 00:36:36 Yeah, it was cool at first, but now every time I'm out, like I'm out and dinner people are coming up and, you know, so I'm at the bar buying shots for people.

Marc Brown 00:36:45 what I like to do. Because concerts, whenever concerts come to town, I'm usually a sponsor. So I just get a bunch of tickets and I go to bars, and if I have good service or server, I'm like, hey, you heard about the the Cardi B concert coming? You won a couple of tickets. Here you go. And I'm just, you know, just out with people. So I have a whole section and it'll be all these people on my section and nobody knows each other. They're just people I met out like, hey, let's have fun. That's awesome. So yeah.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:10 So one of the goals, I think, that, you know, like every, every business should really have is always just delivering more value than what the customer, the client is expecting. And I wonder, I do think it can be difficult whenever you're spending like getting the formula right, whenever it comes to spending enough money on marketing to generate leads, but not so much that's going to take away from the back end of the ability to provide service.

Tyson Mutrux 00:37:34 So how do you balance that, to make sure that you are delivering more value than what people are paying you?

Marc Brown 00:37:40 Growth. I'm a strong believer that it's okay if you get too much in your plate by another plate. So if when we grow once my paralegals are average, we let's say cases come in, I sign staff to them. Once everybody's plate is filled up, it's time to hire more staff. Let's hire. Just keep growing it up. and then at the same time, we are semi selective with the cases we take. we don't accept every case that comes in. you know, sometimes if a case, you know doesn't meet our criteria, we'll refer it out to another law firm. so there's a lot of, you know, every, every couple of months, there's another law firm open there with some young lawyer that's hungry in these cases. And I have more than enough. So I'm plenty happy to hear. Take these here, you know, just not just check in, make sure that the clients are being treated right.

Marc Brown 00:38:30 And, you know, so I, I try not to overfill my plate just by another plate.

Tyson Mutrux 00:38:35 Gotcha. All right. So we only have a few minutes left. So I want to ask you this last question. Okay. You you have you've placed a lot of bets on yourself over the years. You've taken some risk and it's paid off. I bet you have another big bet that you've been putting off, that you've been wanting to place on yourself, and you haven't quite taken the leap. And so it's just my guess. And so do you have a big bet you've been putting off and what is it?

Marc Brown 00:39:02 I actually have two big bets. and one of them I, I can't speak on, but the other one I can speak on. and that is, you know, my law firm. I'm already in South Carolina. In Georgia. Atlanta, Georgia. But there, you know, Lord willing. Next year there will be another, state at it. And, you know, we're going to continue to provide great service across the country.

Tyson Mutrux 00:39:30 Love it man. That's really good stuff. Thank you. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it. I wish we had another couple of hours to talk because it's just it's been fun. I love to have you back on to to pick your brain about some, some, maybe some marketing advice to give to to some young lawyers and everything, but really appreciate you doing this. But if people want to reach out to you, what's what's the way they can get Ahold of you?

Marc Brown 00:39:50 Oh, the best way to get hold of me is social media. And whether it's Instagram, TikTok or YouTube is at why, period. Mark. Mark Brown I try to keep it the same across all platforms so they can definitely reach out. and I know we got to cut. One thing I have to say is to give you this podcasting props. I've been listening for years. So part of what helped me get the courage to open up my own law firm was this podcast, and hearing and listening to the great lawyers that you had on here, and the fact that I was granted the opportunity to be on here with you, with you today.

Marc Brown 00:40:26 this is a milestone like I've, I've, I've achieved accomplishment. And I look forward and hopeful. I'm hopeful that I'll help some other younger lawyers achieve their their goals as well.

Tyson Mutrux 00:40:36 Awesome. Man. I love hearing that. I really appreciate you having you on and thanks for being a listener for so long too. That's awesome. It's funny how many Mark Brown's I know the exact same spelling I have that are listeners. It's it's yeah, it's close to ten. It's it's a wild I can't imagine how much, crap you have to go through trying to find a, a handle for different, social media channels because Mark Brown is like such a common name. But anyways, but thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it. I love seeing the success that you're having. You're just crushing it, man. It's I really appreciate it.

Marc Brown 00:41:04 All right. Thanks, man I appreciate it, man.

Speaker 5 00:41:07 Great.