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Demand-Geniuses is the podcast for revenue-focused B2B Marketers. We bring you the latest insights and expert tips, interviewing geniuses of the B2B Marketing world to bring you actionable advice that you can implement to accelerate growth and progress you career. The role of Marketing in B2B go-to-market strategy has changed drastically. It's more important to revenue generation than ever as buyer engagement becomes more digital. We equip you with the information you need to thrive in this new, revenue-critical role.
Tom Rudnai (00:13)
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Demand Geniuses. I think we might be even in the 40s or something now for episodes, which is pretty cool. We're getting up there. But anyway, that's not what you want to hear. So I'm your host Tom Rodney, just like every other week. And I'm actually, I've been really looking forward to this conversation. So I'm joined by Justina. Justina, will say, let you say hello and let you tell everyone how to pronounce your surname as well, rather than me do a bad job of it.
Justyna (00:39)
Thank you not badgering it.
Tom Rudnai (00:41)
Excellent.
And now you can see why I didn't try. Thank you for joining me. It's really good to have you. I've been looking forward to this, as I say. think it's nice, obviously, both operating in a similar but complementary space. I think we can just have a really nice, like, free-flowing chat around how to build a brand in the AI era, which I think is something that we both spend quite a sad amount of our days thinking about now, right?
Justyna (01:09)
Definitely.
Tom Rudnai (01:12)
Cool, well before we get into it, do you want to maybe just give everyone a little bit of an introduction into you and into your background?
Justyna (01:20)
Okay, so I went to SaaS industry and IT products in general for the last 10 years. That's actually sad, but also quite exciting, taking under consideration how fast it develops and where we are today and here.
And today I'm Head of Marketing at Brand24, a social listening tool, and we are focusing hardly on our marketing B2B efforts with AI visibility also. So I'm not surprised we are talking here today. I'm a huge fan of mastermind sessions and discussions like that. So thank you very much for having me.
Tom Rudnai (02:02)
No, it's good to have you. And I know from just looking through your background and before we spoke last time, so you spent some time as a kind of content leader, some time in PR, which it turns out happens to be a very, very useful skill set now. Is that very clever planning or is that incredibly good luck?
Justyna (02:21)
No, that's not a plan at all. And I was really close to thinking that this is the part of my background that will be just never useful again. And I'm super exciting. It's hot and trendy again. And actually last year I hired to my team.
PR manager and we had a quiet conversation about it with the board. Like, is it really the moment for traditional PR? And I was like, yeah, definitely. That's the brand awareness kind of visibility we need to boost in the AI search. So I'm very excited about the content, the quality content and data, unique inputs we can create to just give LLMs information they need to present.
us it's still I think the better direction than writing content just for AI to be fat and then create something totally different from it because I think we are closer than to creating something actually useful for human these days which is exciting.
Tom Rudnai (03:32)
That to me is the biggest difference that people need to adjust to in terms of the AI era versus the search era. There isn't necessarily a clear distinction between those two things, because I always think search is still a really important channel. But search requires really tight optimization of content. AI requires differentiation, right? So it requires you to produce something that for an AI or for a human,
they can't get elsewhere, which it sounds like is what you're kind of finding yourself and what you're trying to build out internally at Brown 24th based on what you just said.
Justyna (04:07)
Yeah, but I think so many companies have similar struggles these days and we tend to find different solutions to the same problem and I'm still not sure which direction is like the final and it will be reshaping for the next few years. So happy to share ideas here.
Tom Rudnai (04:30)
Yeah,
for sure. Absolutely. Part of what makes it fun operating in this space, I think, is just that it changes so quickly. But talk us through that a little bit. So at Brand24, obviously, you're a little bit more kind of established and you've been around for a little while and then you've probably witnessed this kind of trend over the last two years, or don't think trend is the right word. like talk us through just a little bit of like what you've seen in terms of what clients bring to you.
in terms of how they view brand visibility and how much of that really now is about marketing to the humans and how much of it is about marketing to the robots.
Justyna (05:10)
I like to think about the AI revolution.
I'm making quotes because for some people, a revolution has been lasting for the last two months and for some of us it's been the last two years. So I'm not sure about which part we're talking exactly whenever I start this topic. But yeah, it's like the hottest question these days. And I can see that so many clients, so many companies are focusing on the visibility in LLMs only and they want to measure it
for the day and they want to find out which exact piece of content generated the citation and which exact piece of content should be scaled to bring more citations. And I'm curious about this one because it was also my approach for several months. Let's measure what type of content, what data, what information, what formats are interesting for the LLMs, what are they willing to...
to quote and we've been trying to scale it in this manner as many companies do and I think it's too dynamic strategy like the patterns are too dynamic to have a strategy only based on that but
many many clients perceive online visibility mainly through measuring their impact and their visibility and LLMs. I think it could be wider and we can still see like big players mainly who have the budget and can afford to have like a real 360 strategy that is including LLMs and including other channels and just assumes that if we do something really brilliant with our video content strategy or
our social media or with our ebook reporting lead magnet segment it will somehow in the end impact the LLMs. So we can or just focus hardly on the data we get from LLMs and AI measuring tools or we can just assume that maybe something that isn't visible yet there today could also work great and this is closer to my approach.
today.
Tom Rudnai (07:32)
Yeah, okay. is it fair to say then that what you mostly see is clients bring AI visibility to you as a, is that the primary driver now of conversations when clients are thinking about brand? Is it mostly from that perspective?
Justyna (07:44)
Yes. Yes.
Maybe it's the bubble because we are social listening, media monitoring tool, online visibility tool. So what they are thinking is, okay, I don't want to only measure my visibility. Social listening as this is not a goal itself. We want to measure the presence of our brand just to identify the factors that are impacting this visibility the most and then scale those marketing actions. So right now when everybody are
focusing on alum visibility, they also focus on their marketing strategy from this perspective.
Tom Rudnai (08:27)
Yeah, okay. And what are the one thing I'm most interested like, what are the misconceptions that you feel brands bring to you? Like are there specific things that they often come to you? Because I imagine often they come to to to you with an idea of what they want to do, or there's a lot of kind of pre existing
ideas around what they need to be doing and you probably have quite a different perspective from actually working with clients like what's the gap there and what are the biggest things that you try and reframe for them in terms of how they're thinking.
Justyna (09:00)
maybe it's not exactly about the strategy, but totally the most common misconception about the social listening, media monitoring, and I think general analytics measurement in marketing is that we can start it today and then measure five years.
earlier and then have the data about it and that's not really how it works ever. And I'm surprised that we still have, you know, mature marketing directors, CMOs, who have these expectations for analytics and marketing intelligence tools that they will bring the data about the past. Sometimes it works, very often it works to some extent, but very often it's
It's
like in comparison to what we can measure in the future, like from the point when we turn on the monitoring, when we set up the Google Analytics or when we turn on any other tool, hot jars and heat maps, whatever you're using. This is the moment when you start the best quality of data collection. And I think we need more education on that level, that's for sure, especially with algorithms coming into the game. And that's my biggest surprise.
that we are still talking about it. But when I think about some more, I think we still try to focus on our own brand and what we've been doing good right in the past or bad and try to base our comparison and our strategy on our own company. Which is a great idea in general. But my advice would be try not to focus so much on yourself because your customers are not looking on your
brand only, they are analyzing the whole market and all your competitors. So you can take a look at your blog, let's start basic, and you can think what were the best blog posts that we released this in last year and try to scale that success and try to create something similar that was working for you to generate clients from your funnel.
try to add to this process and to this strategy is okay. Let's add five to ten if you have competitors and let's check what was working for them because maybe some of them were smarter than us. Maybe they had better ideas and better reach. I don't know. Let's find out. That's always worth checking.
Tom Rudnai (11:35)
It's funny because I speak to clients sometimes and they're so focused on their competitors. I find it like, especially, I don't know about you, but in the space that we're both in and around, of AI search optimization.
Justyna (11:40)
Yeah.
Tom Rudnai (11:46)
Last time I went on G2 there's 275 brands that are listed as like AEO tools in an 18 month old category, which is crazy. And it's helped me a lot actually to be like, block out the competitors. I'm going to be chasing my tail forever if I try and think about what they do. Pick our vision, pick a point and we shoot for that. Like there's a balance to be struck there, isn't there?
Justyna (11:55)
Yeah.
Yeah,
for sure, especially with the AI tools.
Tom Rudnai (12:13)
How do you find that then for, if we think about brand 24 for a minute, like, you, I guess, do you struggle with the same thing that I do in terms of just noise and figuring out how to go through that or?
Justyna (12:24)
Definitely, especially that when we were starting like 15 years ago, the idea of internet being too big to, you know...
embraced by a human brain was pretty new. then we were convincing marketers that, that's too much. This job should be done by AI. Those days simply, this should be automated. You cannot just assume that you are able to follow your brand and your visibility, everything that's been said about your brand online. That's impossible. The internet is getting too big. And companies were like, maybe that actually makes
Tom Rudnai (13:02)
Yeah.
Justyna (13:05)
sense and today it's quite obvious to everybody but also like this idea of okay so now I have unlimited data and unlimited option and this narrowing down to one strategy and then trying to stick to it for longer than three months that's actually hard
Tom Rudnai (13:25)
I find that because there's just so much, there's so many things that you can be doing. I think ideas used to be a bit of a bottleneck, right? You're kind of, everyone's looking for creativity, looking for what's the latest thing that we can do. Now that is not a bottleneck at all. There's no shortage of things that you could do. There's so many channels to open up. It's like prioritization is actually the hardest part. Has that been reflected in the way that...
Justyna (13:45)
Looks like.
Tom Rudnai (13:53)
you will work with clients and the way that clients will think about brand because I guess it makes your solution for example a little bit less around like the breadth and a little bit more around like what's working and what's one of the biggest levers that you can pull. Does that make sense?
Justyna (14:09)
Yeah, yeah, That's exactly what we do and adding on the data of analysis, insights, recommendations.
metrics like sentiment that you wouldn't normally have in, I don't know, your LinkedIn or TikTok analysis there in the channel. So there is a lot of data you were previously or originally collecting and then working on it. Right now it's more data and then AI analyzing it on the top of the data and then you get direct recommendation and it just up to the marketer.
their smart budget to decide what they can do with it. I think for many companies, it's definitely not the only tool that they are using to measure their online presence. It's like part of the toolbox and the suit that they are using and merging it. So we are developing multiple tools and solutions for that like MCP for clients who want to just...
talk it through with their chats, GPT, and just take it out from brand24 and connect with other data that they have. And that's brilliant. I'm sure we be, you know, at some point we will have just have chat like a single point of contact to connect all the marketing data we're working with. But in today's environment, think also like also your tool should
implemented in the whole strategy because these are not the only activities that are present in the marketing toolbox. that's a lot of information to comprehend for marketers.
Tom Rudnai (16:03)
Yeah, there we
go. I didn't pay her to say that everyone. It's interesting you say that you think the chat is the future. I'm taking this off on a tangent here, but I actually think that will eventually kind of die a death because I think chat is actually quite a slow way to do things. I have to type out or if everything is reliant on me asking questions and reading responses.
Justyna (16:06)
Yeah.
Tom Rudnai (16:25)
I spend all of my day writing responses to AI and reading responses to AI. I think there must be a better, cleaner way to get information into my brain than me having to read a blog post every time.
Justyna (16:37)
But with all the agents and add-ons that are smart enough to create this prompt with all the 500 points that it should include, the tasks are getting shorter and voice communication is expanding. I think it will, at least for some extent, it will be the very long stage. Of course, I'm saying chat. I think everybody right now passed on.
cloud and even further. So people already know that they don't need to write everything down to have a good output, but they still prefer this conversational mode than
being taught or just learning new tools and their interface and learning how to operate in a totally different environment every time they want to check different type of data.
Tom Rudnai (17:40)
I think that's fair and I think bringing everything together, I just wonder if actually a chat isn't the best way to do it. I think.
eventually as things like video generation, image generation all get better and better, AI can spin up websites, it's going to be able to actually think, okay, what's the best quickest way to get this information given back to Tom into Tom's brain? And sometimes that will be a chat type response, but sometimes that will be, I'm going to create this little video for him. I'm going to create this image. And I think we could be a lot more creative often with how we do that. But that's probably a topic for another day. I want to get into like brand strategy a bit more and what you've seen actually work.
and we started touching on this a little bit in terms of like the levers that brands are pulling. Again, there's so many different things that you can do now to build a brand. Like how have the most popular, I hesitate to say channels, like activities or brand building methods evolved that you've seen over the last maybe two years? And are you seeing some stuff work particularly well at the moment?
Justyna (18:46)
That's a good one.
Let's put on this list video content as a form of communication because I think we're in B2B at least, we're still in this transition of not writing an article for 500,000 characters, but doing a video that will just tell the story faster and for some companies in B2B it's still new. My favorite that it's not very...
metric-wise or tool-wise is how we change our language that is more humanized. think that maybe it's the B2B bubble, I really like, you could tell the difference when several years ago, if the communication was coming from a brand or coming from a person. And that was the huge impact and power of influencers that they were able to tell the story that people were.
were
actually willing to listen because it was told by a story, by a person and it has like any human features to it. So it was listenable, like you could really go with the flow when companies were still creating content, no matter in what format that was kind of stiff and really not approachable for people. And you could tell from the first second, even just by looking at the content.
and how it's structured if it comes from a person or from a brand. And we didn't have AI, you know, several years ago that would be creating all of the content on the internet. So these were actually human making themselves sound like...
not humans and putting words in their mouth that created the communication unbearable and we are past that. I'm very happy, I'm very excited to be in this moment when we can have, you know, authentic human sounding brands that have the same values and messaging very often like the USP and the values behind are not changing but we are getting this content and this communication
in a form that is interesting and pleasant for us. So good for us!
Tom Rudnai (21:09)
I think in tech we've done a lot better on that actually, being a bit more human and a bit more authentic in the corporate branch. I think there are still industries out there where I'm like, you just go and you see a lot of dark blue and you see a lot of like, just, it's whenever I read a post that starts with excited to announce, I'm like, no.
Justyna (21:14)
Mm-hmm.
Hahaha
But
they're trying, there is excitement. So these are emotions.
Tom Rudnai (21:34)
Show me the emotion, don't just say it. Yeah,
Justyna (21:39)
It could say, we're announcing.
Tom Rudnai (21:42)
but so okay, the language is shifting, which is good, but that's brand figuring out that a brand is meant to be like a vehicle for personality, right? You're trying to be personality on something that isn't a person, which I think is cool. And you mentioned video, so is that something that you're seeing people do more and more of and...
are there because I'll give you why it interested me is I struggled to see how video really works for us at demand genius because I think distribution is too uncertain to justify the effort and time that it takes to create a big video so if we go and we create an amazing video
How do get in front of people? The algorithms are like, when it's that difficult to just get a message in front of someone given the amount of noise, it doesn't justify that level of effort in the message. But I know that's a really bad way of thinking because then you'll just keep producing crap. how do you think about that?
Justyna (22:40)
My idea is that you just need to optimize the process. Like it shouldn't be that hard in today's tech reality. It doesn't have to be perfect. People don't expect perfectly edited, perfectly colorful and cutted versions. We are happy to accept some level of authenticity for the videos and it's okay if you don't have like a pro.
person to edit everything you release but the form is really easier for people to digest than written content especially when they see like a double dash in this content in a written form or anything that give them this banner blindness idea that it's probably a generated written form so they would definitely prefer to see a person saying this
Tom Rudnai (23:37)
What do you think about AI generated videos?
Justyna (23:43)
There are some that I appreciate.
especially if they are a campaign about saving little cats and dogs. And I think, yes, I'm accepting this AI here because you have zero budget for your marketing actions and your NGO. So go for it. I'm very proud. You found time to educate yourself on the future of marketing. Great job guys. But I've seen so many shitty campaigns done by companies who really have a budget.
Tom Rudnai (23:54)
That's me.
Justyna (24:16)
they fired people who were creative, had this idea about how strategic communication should look like and then they create a Shedia video advert and they are throwing all that money from both people salaries to promote this video and that's something I cannot accept.
Tom Rudnai (24:40)
Yeah, it's interesting. You can kind of spot the one. So like, there is, think we, I did one where we produced this big dark AI research report. I was really proud of it. I thought it'd be cool to like make a little video that kind of brings it home and I'll use AI to do it. And I played around with it and I just put it out there. was like, look, I made this with AI. And I remember I got someone commenting on it and they were like, this is so obviously AI. Like, yeah, it was. I said that. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. It's just, what annoys me is when people try and hide it and people are like,
trying to for what you say it's they're trying to replace humans rather than just do something new and interesting.
Justyna (25:16)
Yeah, I think if you have a super good idea, it's usually by person who just analyzed a lot of data with the help of AI and know the brand and have a feeling and have this intuition what could work and this using the tools perfectly, not educated guess, but perfectly data driven decisions. And then this person is trying to use AI to create a very surprising, satisfying, good looking at
with something that they wouldn't be able to shoot because they are a company based somewhere and this ad requires to send their product to space or whatever. If the idea is good, I don't mind using the AI and if the outcome is just not terribly AI slope, it's still okay. I'm happy that we can take down this limitation of what you can shoot in your hometown.
For many companies, this really was a limitation that was just making the marketing a bit more boring. And right now we can make it more interesting. So why not? But I don't like the idea of firing people and then throwing the budget companies safe on promoting bad marketing that wasn't thought through. Unacceptable. Prison.
Tom Rudnai (26:36)
Yeah,
we fired all of our marketers and used that to produce 10 times more terrible videos. yeah, I'm with you there. Have you seen any brands that do video content particularly well? And also, well, maybe let's ask that first and then I'll go to my other question. Are there any examples of brands that do it really well?
Justyna (27:00)
boring B2B person so video channels that I follow are a surfer SEO they give like super rhetorical content and it's just talking head no AI involved apart from covers I think or hs they're really
doing good content on the level of education and like this thought leadership and product. That's a good one. I totally appreciate Samarash social videos because they genuinely, they're genuinely funny and that's something I'm jealous about in B2B social media sphere. But I would need to think about some further recommendations for you because you probably know that those, right? They're super popular.
Tom Rudnai (27:46)
Yeah, I speaking, think funny is a really dangerous idea in B2B because it's just so often done really badly. But I think if you can do it well, then it's great. Is it something that my other question was, is it something that you can see ever in your analytics? Like you must have brands who lean very heavily into AI and brands that don't so much. Can you have you been able to draw any like
trends or what's the word I'm looking for like correlations between the way the brands adopt AI and how their brand reputation and things like that actually develops. If not, can we do a research report on it please?
Justyna (28:24)
No, unfortunately, I wouldn't have a really rich data on that. We have like four or five thousand clients right now and I don't check their data on a daily basis. But when we have a case study, we always ask them about their strategy and how does it...
how does AI change their reality? But I wouldn't have market inside average info on that. But it's a good idea to check.
Tom Rudnai (29:05)
We could do something there. can use demand genius to see how heavily they're using AI for their content. We can use you to see what their brand signals have been and then we can see what the impact is. That seems like a good collab opportunity.
Justyna (29:09)
Yeah.
But also I don't want to use, client's data to do that. They're paying for the tool not to be my data feeders.
Tom Rudnai (29:21)
Well, yeah.
Fair enough, fair enough. It's interesting, one thing that we have noticed recently and I'm doing a bit of a study on which I'm going to publish in a couple of weeks actually is the impact of AI content on search traffic and what seems pretty clear is that the companies that...
I'm being a bit cheeky with it. I'm like, it's the curse of being an AEO case study. So we look at companies that were really prominent early case studies for AEO and produce loads of AI generated content in order to hack their AI search visibility. And it's really consistent actually that you see this little increase for a while, and then it actually falls off to even worse than it was before, because all of that content is bad content and AI knows that and you get the initial boost and then you're kind of back to square one. So it is quite interesting to see there's a whole
load of the earlier adopters of AI for content that are really seeing it kind of bite them in the ass.
Justyna (30:17)
for sure and with the previous update we were...
also a bit hate, although we didn't generate a ton of AI content. didn't even have AI-generated content understood as it is on the internet. We grew our team since the AI revolution is on. We restructurized our team, gave them the tools, but they're still writing on a similar scale, let's say, than a year or two before, and we still got hate, so we tried to dig into the topic.
Tom Rudnai (30:34)
Thank
Justyna (30:53)
and of course we saw companies that had this spike and then drop. So we got inspired and did a little content pruning on our own blog and it helped. It looks like it helps even though we didn't have AI generated content problem but just the scale of topics and whole content map was probably a bit too wide for Google to indicate
like a particular domain authority topic for us. So this also helped for companies that are too old and on the market for too long and they have just 15 years of content on their website and it needs to be taken down at some point.
Tom Rudnai (31:42)
Yeah, I mean, that's it.
gonna try not to get too much into the Demand Genius value pot, but that's a huge part of what we do as help. You've got loads of these companies that have done SEO for 10 years, 20 years. They've got sometimes like 10,000 pieces of content on the website. And the challenge is, one of the things that helps with the positioning and visibility is just being really clear over who you are, who you're for, when and how to recommend you. And the more content you have, the harder it is to maintain focus, maintain clarity, consistency, all of that.
that kind of stuff currently across your library. So we talk a lot about you need to think about your overall cultivating your overall digital footprint, not just producing more content. And that means actually it's a really big shift for content teams because you kind of have to go from probably 95 % of your attention going to new content. I think now to a lot more like 50 50 between new content and actually improving existing content, elevating it and keeping it up to date, which just sounds like it's gonna use.
Justyna (32:43)
It was 80 to 20. We focused 80 % of energy on optimizations and pruning and just updating the content we had. 20 % was for creating new content if something was really hot, trendy, and we couldn't miss it. But we already had, for the last two years, focusing on this online visibility with AI visibility included. We already had so many topics covered and URLs that were on good QR.
So we needed to update the content but not necessarily creating something new and 80 % of the focus went to optimization and pruning. So exactly the direction we're saying.
Tom Rudnai (33:25)
Yeah, I love that. I've had a couple of these companies with like 10,000 pieces of content and they're like, we really need to find content gaps. We're finding it hard. Like, well, yeah, of course you're finding it hard. You covered everything. I think you're set on the content. Let's just make it better. Anyway, Justina, I'm going to move into our last little section that we always do, which is a couple of quick fires, because I know that we're getting very close to your weekend and we need to let you get off and go and enjoy that. So we have a couple of quick fires that we normally do at the end of these sessions. So the first one.
Justyna (33:39)
Yeah.
Tom Rudnai (33:55)
is the most clickbaity current quickfire question anyone could ever imagine which is what is an AI use case or an AI tool that you absolutely love like the one that's most blown your mind
Justyna (34:10)
Recently's ZenABM.
Tom Rudnai (34:13)
I've heard of it. I have met the founder of Zen and ABN actually, so Emily, Emilia
Justyna (34:19)
Mm-hmm. Hi, Emilia I hope she will be watching, but yeah, totally.
Tom Rudnai (34:22)
Yes.
Cool, me, let's give Emilia a little quick ad.
Justyna (34:30)
I thought they were supposed to be quick shots so I shut up after a second. yeah, ZenABE should optimize your whole strategy and efforts and it's really smart in terms of directing you to the right people. So something that I think was still done manually by so many companies and yeah, worth trying if anyone haven't heard.
about it yet.
Tom Rudnai (35:01)
folks, go and check out that. And Emilia you are welcome. You or Justine or a drink. And then for you personally, we've not kind of talked about your career actually very much, but like, I'm always curious, is there a trait or a skill of yours that has really like moved the needle for you in your career that you think has helped?
Justyna (35:19)
Hmm. Talking?
I would never think it would. For the last 15 years, I was developing my analytical skills, my critical thinking numbers, tools, all the, know, IT, serious things you may think. And something that I really see that is beneficial for my personal career and for my company is me talking or writing on LinkedIn things that I find important as a head of marketing. And people will give me...
great feedback about it so I think I need to do it more.
Tom Rudnai (35:56)
I like that. think when people worry, I've said this in the book before, but when people worry about, you know, is AI going to replace the jobs, the easiest way to future-proof yourself is to build up a little bit of an audience because people with attention this hard to grab, everyone will always hire the person that can bring bit of an audience with them. So I think that's very good. The final one that I'll ask you is, this is always a bit of a fun one.
you were to get your like plan a or let me let me reframe that more we'll edit it what if you if you had unlimited budget for one campaign or one project what would you do and the way that i think about that is like the campaign that your boss would never be stupid enough to actually approve like the most out there idea that you have
Justyna (36:46)
me having a YouTube channel called Still No CMO.
telling people how to become a CMO and what they should do and what actions and what type of data strategies make them really visible, appreciated and noticed in the company as a person and as a marketing department. Because yeah, think our persona is a marketing persona. So it would be supernatural for me to talk to other marketers about, okay, guys, need focus, we need to do this and that. Here is what worked for
me here's what we didn't work but I think at some point it could be risky
Tom Rudnai (37:28)
I think we can make that one happen, right? That seems pretty doable. You just need Riverside and a YouTube account, right?
Justyna (37:36)
Yeah, totally.
Tom Rudnai (37:38)
Hehehehe
Justyna (37:40)
and the very long weekend that I would spend entirely on this project because it really is, I would say, at least that's how I imagine it, a life-changing commitment in terms of you need to have energy for that. You need to be relaxed enough to think about it and to have resources on doing that on the top of a regular marketer's job. So it's really a matter of priorities.
not if the idea is good or bad.
Tom Rudnai (38:13)
Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you the best thing that I've ever did with this podcast, this podcast has been so valuable. It's kind of something that sits on top of everything that we do. We don't really think too much about generating pipeline format for Demand Genius. But it's been super, super valuable to me. And the best thing I did was just start doing it. It was so imperfect at the start. I was editing it myself for the weekends. It's quite interesting. And then over time, we were like, okay, we'll get a bit more help and try and polish it up a little bit. But the best thing I did was just start and be like, okay, this is going to be crap on day one.
super janky and it's slowly getting better and maybe soon it'll actually be good. But anyway.
Justyna (38:49)
That's
exactly what you say, you were doing that on the weekends and I just got my weekends back after 10 years of being very invested in work and I try to keep it as long as possible so that's hard.
Tom Rudnai (39:04)
Fair enough.
Fair enough. I can't argue with that. And then finally, I always ask every guest for one recommendation. So I don't know if there's like a book, a podcast or a thought leader that you think is really great that everyone should check out.
Justyna (39:18)
For those who still don't know Emilia Korczyńska on LinkedIn, I highly recommend her profile and her newsletter, Product Trans, for those who don't know it yet.
Tom Rudnai (39:30)
Awesome, I don't think I've come across that so I will check that out as well. Justine, thank you very much. I've had a really nice chat and thank you for doing this. We're at the end of your day on a Friday. I'm sure there are a lot of places you would rather be but it's been nice to talk to you.
Justyna (39:44)
Pleasure, pure pleasure. Thank you so much for the invitation.
Tom Rudnai (39:49)
Thank you for listening and everyone who is still with us. We will see you next time.