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Welcome to The NeuralPod.
The 0-1 machine learning podcast.
Chatting with ML Leaders, Researchers and Engineers who've built models, systems and products 0-1.
Kate: we think that every person
is, Unique and you and all of us,
like we carry, special, unique life
experience and wisdom stories, that
all are gonna vanish with the death.
And we wanna prevent it.
We wanna keep it, we wanna try to
create this digital print of you,
to pass it through a generation.
So in some words you can
say we're chasing here.
Chris: hi everyone.
Welcome back to the Neuro Pod.
I'm Chris k, the host and
founder of neurore ai.
I'm joined today by, Katherine
she's a co-founder of Panio.
, Welcome to the show.
Kate: Hi everyone.
I'm Kate.
I've been in cancer research for three
years, and recently, exited the company.
By res a lot of data, we had and
postponing the previous project.
And recently with my co-founded
Mitri, founded Panto, a project where
we are, making digital prints of
people, you can call it digital twins,
digital personas, basically making.
your personality, with cloning
your voice and trying to gather all
the information about you storing
it in one place, which is panto.
Chris: Yeah, it sounds really exciting
and I think, a lot of people will be
familiar with the topic of, DeepFakes
and, you know, they first came to the
forefront probably four or five years ago.
now, but this feels like
the next layer above.
And, there's some really
exciting use cases that we.
You can potentially apply this to,
but also, from our discussions in the
past, Kate, some potential security
and ethical concerns and rightly so.
And you guys are also
addressing that in the product.
So I think on today's show, we're gonna
introduce, people a little bit more to
you, the industry, what kind of technology
driving the products, why now, and that.
Aha moment for you and your co-founder.
a bit more about the problem space
and some ethical considerations.
And I think, you know, I'm excited to
talk about this because it, like you
say, it's got some really interesting
use cases, but also, there's a lot.
Around the products, around, you
know, philosophical as aspect to it,
which I think is pretty cool as well.
So, yeah.
Do you wanna just introduce people to
what a digital twin or clone would be?
if they haven't heard
of one before, I guess.
Kate: Yeah, sure.
well, I think it just speaks for itself.
on the one hand, your digital client, your
digital representation is basically you.
your information gathered, to be more
precise this is a deep voice cloning
of you, meaning that we're able to
capture your emotions, your intonations.
We can try to capture the
personality behind it.
We copy some of those patterns.
and with enough information that
we gather through our three hours
interview and that you can later.
Add with any types of dropping on
our platform, we can basically gather
and create, this digital persona.
So basically this is a combination
of, voice cloning, not just.
11.
It's, it's 11 labs.
They're great.
Thumbs up for the com, like
for technologies, but it's,
it's a deep voice cloning.
So we we're capturing a lot of voice,
which makes it a unique, experience.
And we always get the vow wow effects,
when we show demos and with a com
compression with, with a real voice.
After you just present it a little, then
you show your digital, digital persona.
Like, people usually get this.
Oh, now I see.
Now I That's, that's you.
Yeah.
That's actually you.
I don't wanna, we right now, we
don't wanna go to, to the video and
add, Yeah, the video part, because I
think it's, with all due respect to
people who are right now, in video,
there are great startups over there.
but I don't think that bringing
video, well bringing video would
just ruin the experience because it's
lagging behind a little bit and it
still brings this Death Valley, vibe.
So right now it's, it's voice
only and we'd probably move, two
holograms, in, in, in the future.
We're actually making, little
construction for the demo.
So happy to be like involved.
I would also really like, to
drop a little about the vision
here, like why we're doing this.
Sorry if I'm stealing your question.
Cool.
So actually there are project, over
there in the market who are, doing
same things like Delphi, for example.
Yeah.
It's the idea isn't new.
I think people were trying to, create
digital cells for themself for a while.
There are books, movies about it and
how things go wrong at some point.
but what we're.
Like the reason, the vision behind this
project is to preserve your legacy.
So we are, of course, there are use
cases where this can be useful day-to-day
tool, but in general, we care, that we
think that every person is, Unique and
all of us, we carry, special, unique
life experience and wisdom stories, that
all are gonna vanish with the death.
And we wanna prevent it.
We wanna keep it, we wanna try to
create this digital print of you,
to pass it through a generation.
So in some words you can
say we're chasing here.
well, not in a regular case where like
you'll transfer your consciousness fully.
but, yeah, in some terms,
I'd say this is, immortality.
Chris: Yeah, it really is
fascinating and I think you've
potentially got two challenges.
Obviously the technology which everyone
would face, but then, you know, how
people perceive the products and how it's
received more so than usual, I guess.
but like you say, there's a lot
of products out there where.
We can clone our likeness pretty easily,
but I guess after a three to four minute
conversation, you'd be able to tell
This is not Kate, or this is not Chris.
what kind of data do you use
to get that likeness and really
replicate someone's personality.
Kate: Okay.
So, I think they're like, what makes it.
state of the art, secret sauce, whatever
works here is A combination of the
voice, technology and the memory.
I think that the memory is actually a
big challenge for everybody to solve.
And, we're really good with memories
like, keeping the conversation going.
I have couple of friends and my
aunts who thought that this is just
a platform to call me, and it was
in real, life when they texted me.
This is, this is you.
Right?
This is you.
Right.
We're talking.
So it was, it was very funny experience.
Well, of course, like after a
couple minutes they'd be like, oh
yeah, no, something, something's
off here, something's wrong.
but it gives people chills.
So, and then the others, it's a
very emotional, emotional moment.
And, yeah, this whole project
was, moved by like a personal
story, of my co-founder.
in the use case where he passed, the
copy of his grandfather to his grandma.
so yes, she loves it.
And I think that the technology
has moved to the point, where
it could be a very close copy.
So yeah, it's a voice
plus the memory logic.
And, I'm still like, I am the
power user of my own product.
I talk to myself, every day.
It's a great self, reflective tool.
basically what makes it like
boring at some point, we're
trying to behave humanly.
so it would never, always
just agree with you.
I had great arguments with myself,
and yeah, we're trying to get
away from always following up.
Questions.
Always agreeing and, trying to create
some kind of will there to pivot
the conversation, and kind of, make
it and like unpredictable dialogue,
something like similar to what we
experienced talking to other humans.
so yeah.
Chris: Yeah, it's again, interesting.
how long does it take you to
capture someone's likeness roughly?
If you, you know, let's say it's
an hour, two hours, what's the
average time it'll take you?
Kate: So we are, we're doing,
as I, as I mentioned, three
hour interview right now, but
Chris: Okay.
Kate: enough, to capture like
all your life and the older the
client is, the less it's enough.
Chris: Hmm.
Kate: me, I think it was, I did, so
I'm bilingual and there's a difference.
In my Russian speech in English, I
think even personnel, it's a different,
uh, so I did five or six hours in
total of recordings, and of course
a lot of information was added.
I migrated from chat to pt, like I
took everything there and dropped it,
to our project project because you
just enjoy the experience more now.
Uh, but yeah, in general, three to
four hours of the structural story.
and then of course you'll need to drop
an add-on additional information, and
it's up to you to decide whether it's
enough of adding a lot of integrations
and APIs it's really easy to get access,
to plug it in, wherever you want to be
plugged in your day-to-day conversations.
Like, I dunno, messengers
emails, whatever.
But I think that would.
Just scary people and make them care.
E more so right now we're keeping
everything within the platform where
we can, be sure about the security,
the encryption, so yeah, just, after
the interview, drop whatever you like.
we're not there.
and yeah.
What, when it would
feel enough for you, uh.
Chris: Boom.
And are you hoping for this to say kind
of B2C applications and, you know, like
you say, go helping past generational
information on, Any other applications?
Do you ever see it like being
used for B2B for example?
Kate: I hope, I love,
I'm in love with B2B.
Personally, I think like it's so hard
to build what people want, and, it's
very hard to promote, B2C product.
But, yeah, we'll stay, we'll stay B B2C.
I don't wanna go B2B because that would
mean we would turn eventually into
B2B SaaS company, which we're trying
Chris: Yeah.
Kate: not to, not to be, we're trying
to do something valuable vis with
a vision, but in the case, there
are cases, the use cases, where.
We can work with some caregivers
and some organizations.
For example, since we last talked,
we've started, reaching out, and
getting some feedback from death.
Doulas, these are people who help,
families and people who are dying process,
their grief or the actual thought that
the death is close and it's terrifying.
we're reaching out to, senior.
caregivers, to just offer people to, make
them basically immersive biographies,
like there's so many use cases and there
are ways, like the organization that we
can work with, we're very open to that.
Chris: Yeah, so it is, seems like you're
very keen to apply this to very ethical,
problems and give people, a new approach
to things, which is amazing to see.
Why did you come up with this product
now I'd appreciate, you know, it is
probably dovetailed with these new models
that have come out that have enabled
you to do this and I guess a product
would only get better as new model.
You get more models and data.
But what was the aha moment
for you guys where you decided
to go on it all in on this?
Kate: So, I'd love to
share my co-founder story.
it was actually, he's a
visionary behind this.
when I met him, it's a
close friend of mine.
he changed the project from his previous
one to this one, and I immediately
thought that no, I'm joining him, at
all costs, for free as a follower.
Yeah.
The idea really resonated.
he worked in AI for six years working.
with voice and memories.
this is, the field of his expertise.
And at some point, he, so he works 24 7.
He literally sleeps four hours every day.
That's why he wasn't, joining us today.
he works a lot and I don't think he has a
lot of company, during those night hours.
I think he cloned himself, to brainstorm.
so it would be, somebody to talk
to, about work and stuff because
he's a creative person and he
was surprised of the quality.
He was just basically experimenting
and came up with that.
This use case of the Deep Voice
cloning technology by 11 labs.
And yeah, instantly he was
like, wow, this is fantastic.
This is literally me.
he was close with his grandfather, who
recently passed away three years ago.
He was like dad to him of course
he already processed the loss.
it's been like three years, but out
of curiosity, he made the copy of his
grandfather and, it was very emotional.
It was an emotional moment.
because he had some voice recordings.
his grandfather, written a a, a book.
A book, and, yeah, there was
plenty of information to be used.
It was, yeah, as I said, a
pretty big moment for him.
And then he gave it to his grandma, and
now she talks to this, digital version
of his grandfather for an hour every day.
that costs quite a lot.
I mean, in terms of, the use of,
the combination of the technology.
But, yeah, I think it's amazing in,
many ways because people feel lonely.
I think there always comes
unexpected in our lives, and
I know that it's, a very sensitive
moment for every person who processes.
this will process this differently,
but I think if, Applied
with care and, cautiousness.
This technology may bring peace
and actually serve, like people are
nostalgic even without, like pan.
have photos, people have seminaries.
People still do voice recordings
and video recordings, of course.
I think that, we're living a digital era.
People leave huge digital prints
behind them, and I think it's just
great to create a use case like this.
Chris: Yeah, like you say, it's.
I think it should be down to the
person if you want this, why not?
yeah, I think people
should have the choice.
but there's certainly an ethical aspect
to the product and we've kind of spoke
about it in the backgrounds before.
You know, first of all, in general,
this kind of technology's not just what
Panto is working on, but also in general
DeepFakes and vice clones, et cetera.
but this would.
Kick it up a, I guess, in terms
of someone's likeness, how do you
feel about people who would be
worried about this being misused?
Kate: So are trying to, first
of all, there is a pretty
strict voice verification.
once we onboard you and the
interview is finished and the
default voice cloning is done.
we don't have access to your
voice and basically nobody has.
So, once we've done the recordings,
we've now, since we last talked, evolved
a lot, we created proper contracts.
we have, we incorporated the company.
So yeah, we're now have
a very strict protocol.
We sign NDAs like privacy is, very
high priority for our clients.
we are.
it's even an issue that it's all
in the cloud for some people, even
with the encryption, people care.
And I appreciate a lot of people
caring that much about like their,
their information because it's very
personal and, we're trying to solve
this by moving, to hardware, actually to
hosting it all locally and to basically
send all of our clients, the chip.
and, yeah, we're experimenting
right now with it, the getting
ready, the first prototype.
But yeah, the voice will be secured,
on the side of, 11 reps labs right now.
I know it's also a startup.
but they're growing, they're,
they're doing better, but in general.
and it's, right now it's, there are no in
integrations like I, the only, the only.
Way that it can work, but yeah,
only you have the access to
your platform, to your voice.
So I, I like, we've tried to
make it as closed as possible.
yeah.
I can't come up with a scam,
schemes here, but maybe it's just
a limitation of my imagination and,
Chris: Yeah.
Kate: It's the time will, the time will
come and we'll see things, popping up.
But so far we've protected, all
the ways that it can be, dangerous.
Chris: Yeah, I mean, you guys are
very early stage and I think you
mentioned to me, correct me if
I'm wrong, you have around, 30
customers, at least at the moment.
And, you know, people
definitely buying into it.
And I guess, do they have any security
concerns and are obviously you're
managing them because they're still very
keen to get the product from, I hear.
Kate: Yeah, but at the same time
as we onboard new clients, we're
hearing like more feedback or
where to go in terms of security.
Like I think when we first,
caught up on a call, it was just.
Early adopters, they're like, yeah, sure.
Like onboard me, I'll share whatever.
But as we go, as there are more people
coming, like we've came up with the
NDA because it's like even we're,
we're having in-person interviews,
so there's like no AI there.
And I, and I thought, my initial
thought was it was, yeah, it's such
cool, like a person would actually
listen to you for like three.
Three, three and more hours if needed.
But people are like, no.
Who, who are you?
Like, let's sign, let's sign an NDAI.
I don't trust you with
this, sensitive information.
But at the same time, you don't have to
peel everything during the interview.
You can add more details yourself
as you're on the platform.
yeah, we have, as the protocols we're
using for the security, the data
storage are the best on the market.
Like it's the same as, lot of great
companies use, and we don't, like
we, we have notifications that
we don't use any of the client's
data in training right now.
So yeah, trying to make it as
safe, as comfortable as possible.
Some people are like,
please, I don't trust Google.
don't use Gemini.
let's not do this in Google Meet.
Chris: Yeah.
Kate: super lean, now very
flexible to customer needs.
Chris: Yeah.
So it's super good to hear and I think,
that segues nicely onto the next part
around, you know, the deaf question and.
I think you guys mentioned
personality should not die.
I think, you know, people, there'll be
people on two sides to that fence and you
know, some people may say it would foster
unhealthy connections with, you know,
what is essentially a computer program.
And it, again, this is not just
specific to, panty or you, you've
got, you know, ethical concerns
around chat and, especially young
people building up relationships with.
Chatbot, you know, it's profound
and controversial, I think.
what are your thoughts on, you know,
potentially someone having a, an unhealthy
relationship with the, the program, and is
it, is it something that you think about?
Kate: I think
Chris: I.
Kate: we are.
We're in a new era, we will
adapt, to some sort of thing.
I think AI is still pretty new.
I think like always, be, two opinions.
so for example, when iPhones came and
people are like restraining, teenagers
from getting like too much of a screen
time, too much of a social media.
So see, but it's been out there,
through all my teenage years.
and only now people like, yeah,
we should actually ban teenagers
from that much of social media.
It's like getting dangerous.
as a humanity to see it's
yet, to be studied, but.
How does it differ from having unhealthy
attachments and relationship with other
people like this can be a very unhealthy,
addictive and dangerous thing too.
So, sure.
in such a sensitive field as death
and grieving, I talk personally
a lot because I'm in love with,
this use case with desk doulas.
This is personal to me because
I joined this project because
I'm really afraid of my father.
He's great.
He's in great house.
He's 55 years old.
He has, a lot of years, to come.
But, for some reasons I'm terrified
by the thought of his death.
And that's why the moment I
heard of this technology, I'm
like, nevermind, I'm cloning him.
We'll figure things out as we go.
but.
when you love somebody and, well,
first of all, you'll figure things
out of how to logically explain
why this technology is good and it
should be applied, in some use cases.
second, I think that I'll definitely
work with a death doula to process this,
Actually you can work with a death doula
before somebody dies to, get through the
idea that, mortality is still a thing
and we need to grieve and go through it.
But when I was, pitching this product,
to, to hear the feedback if it's
actually can be applicable to this
field and actually serve for good,
but not harm people, because I don't
want this product to be misused.
So I'm first trying to
gather the feedback.
some of them, told me that it's
definitely not for all clients, at
this point, we are figuring this
problem by choosing the providers
and choosing the people who are being
referred to us by those professionals.
so it's a decision on their side
that it would benefit the client if
they have this, because as I see it,
this is not a substitute to a person.
This is like a soft launch, because
that happens Very instantly and just,
wow, we can't call this person anymore.
and you are having this little LLM in
your head with just the memories of how
they used to talk and how they used to
sound, recreating this in your head.
So I don't see anything bad about
the experience of actually hearing
something from, from speakers.
but yeah, it's definitely.
Should be carefully curated and, and
like supported by the professionals.
this would serve as a soft launch for
the grief, and this would eventually
work as a separation from your parents.
when you're small, you're talking
to them daily, but when you move
away to college, university, you
start calling them less and less.
there's gonna be a use case, like with.
the use case of a person, dying and being
captured and cloned, I don't think there
would be that kind of unhealthy attachment
we're talking about very rare cases.
in this case it would either
be us or soulless cha.
Chris: Yeah, it's a good point.
I think where before we started
speaking I was like, well, I dunno
if I would do this, more so as a
tool, for grieving with my parents.
But then I think speaking here today,
I think, well, maybe I actually would.
and I think it'd be amazing.
You know, for people a hundred years
from now to have captured lightness.
You know, if you think about all the
great historical people like Einstein,
maybe you know, my favorite person
in history is Alexander the Great.
You know, if people 5,000 years
from now have these things, how
accurate would the history books be?
I would say very accurate.
So, yeah, I mean it's amazing.
in terms of the vision, obviously
this is the first step for you guys.
The product will probably evolve as the
technology evolves and like you mentioned,
we're just at the start with ai.
we'll caveat this with AI changes so
fast, I guess nobody really knows, but
what are you hoping for the next six
months to kind of two to three years?
Kate: so the next six months,
we're moving very fast.
First of all, we started a month
ago, so it's like a very, but thanks
to my co-founder, energy and just
in general, moving, moving fast
because of how inspired we are.
we will, we're aiming just to, we're
gaining track a a lot of traction.
We're onboarding, customer gathering
feedback, staying very close with
them after like we've onboarded them.
We're delivering a lot of new features.
Of course, early adapters are the
best people because they believe in
you before there is the product that
they would use on a daily basis.
We're coming with more use cases,
because as far as I want it to be.
For people to be conscious, and
understand, their mortality, use it
as self-reflective tool and, capture
their biographies, making, the digital
personas to preserve the knowledge.
Some people are still looking for
ways to use it on a daily basis
and integrate it to their slack,
for them to be more, efficient.
But, yeah, just trying to see
if, Enough of the market volume,
you know, for us to move forward.
Although I'm convinced, that
we'll try to shape the market
and, bring their division.
So it's definitely shaping up the
product more, shaping up the message
because I think it needs to be clear,
maybe split, to the proper audience
and just, little startup steps, making
the launch video, gaining interaction.
probably be fundraising.
but yeah, right now, as I've
mentioned, we've started already work,
like looking in the future because
it's a very futuristic, product.
So you gotta look there and, set the path
early, that we wanna move to hardware,
make this path even more complicated.
yeah, store everything,
run everything locally.
yeah, train our own, lms.
try to see where we can get, without,
big models, huge corporations,
which would also bring more security
and, eventually try to bring, even
more in-person presence, vibe, as
I said, we see it not in the video
because it's still pretty bad.
I mean, you still can say, see, it's not a
real person, and it'll just ruin the vibe.
completely.
And as long as it's just a good
voice cloning, I think it's enough.
Like your imagination would do the rest.
So the, probably the hologram, like
we're exploring how we can create, this
experience For me, this is a sci-fi, but I
believe, in the power of my co-founder and
us making it real escalated with a voice.
So I'm very excited for the future.
Chris: Yeah, I am getting, star
Wars vibes with the hologram.
That's a fair thing to think of.
And you touched on hardware there.
don't think we've quite entered
the age of robotics yet.
I know we're making massive strides
as an industry, but, you know,
providing the, wasn't limited
by the software, the hardware.
would you put this into some
robotics in the future if you could?
Kate: Have you seen the recent robots now?
Chris: I'm not seeing Neil.
Kate: you
Chris: Yeah,
Kate: been
Chris: no.
Kate: and it's so scary.
I'm like, no, the cut it is
the more terrifying this is.
Chris: Yeah.
Kate: the cuter it is,
the more you're like.
Like it's trying to make me like
it, it's trying to appear friendly.
yeah.
So, no, I think holograms for now, no, I,
Chris: Yeah.
Kate: it'll turn into
this Black Mirror episode.
so yeah.
Not, not, not not going there right
now, not exploring, yeah, definitely.
And I've just.
exited biotech, so I'm not
into the heavy, industries.
I need a little pause.
So for a while we'll stick to software,
maybe hardware, running everything locally
and yeah, in general, don't want, you
know, don't want to, can't see a robot.
I see, can't see a robot.
I don't need the hug.
Chris: Yeah.
And you know, this, strikes me
as a massive passion project
for you, which is great to see.
what do you hope to, you know, grow pant
two, if you and your co-founder, you're
looking to bring other people on board?
'cause I'm sure there, might be
people listening who want to get
involved with this type of project.
what are your plans there?
Kate: So as I've said, shaping
the message, like coming up with
the proper audiences, because
right now, it's very diverse.
So on one hand, these are people who.
who, who needs their own biographies?
There is a, pretty big segment of
people who will eventually like, for
ways to, you know, capture themselves.
And I think that we're all kind of
moved a little bit with a fear of death.
So everything we do is we're
trying to leave something behind.
Well.
Not like on a daily basis.
Of course, I don't, I hope everybody
are fine in peace and not thinking,
day to day about, the dance is coming.
but yeah, I think that we're all moving
towards creating something and, this is
like deeply, deeply, very deeply moved
by a little bit of like the fear of void
forgiveness and, but still, yeah, there's,
different, and we should, we're, we're.
We're polishing this, message.
yeah, different ways.
for example, we're also reaching
out and, being reached by
people with terminal illnesses.
So basically people who are at
this edge and they're looking for
tools like this for something to
be captured because they're like
in the death tool of practices.
There still do just simple,
video recording to the future.
a voice recording, to your loved ones.
So this is definitely use cases where
it can be like applied already and
bring peace and, value, to people.
I really enjoy that this is, in the
field, which is a little bit of taboo.
You know, people don't
love to think about death.
We're, we're trying to like be
focused more on like day-to-day life
and stuff, For some people this,
the death is, you know, something
they, they live with for a while.
I see already a pretty valuable
use case, for people with
early dementia and Alzheimer.
we were having cases like this
in with like the interest, people
basically losing their personalities.
I think that, and I have some friends who.
We see it as a tool that,
hey, I'd probably record this,
for myself in the future.
As a self-reflective, it's great to see,
before and after, actually, you know,
this little, because you change, maybe
if you, if you'd make this copy and
abandon it for years, it'd be actually
fun, fun experience to get back to it.
and of course, day-to-day usage, we're
trying to figure out as if there are as
many people who would enjoy, the Chachi
PT experience, but support it and fine
tuned, Personally, on their, you know,
lifestyle, biography, tone of voice.
So yeah, shaping this into proper
messages and see how, how this resonates.
Because some use cases
like the, and others are
Chris: Yeah,
Kate: figuring out.
Chris: I imagine a lot of people outta
curiosity as well would just want to
speak to themselves and see what comes
back and have that mirror up to yourself
because you know, unless you've got
a twin, you can't actually do that.
So it's, yeah, that would
be super curious as well.
A lot of the founders that come on
the show are B2B founders, but you
know, you, as you say, you're B2C and
potentially some of your customers,
potential new customers listening.
first of all, how can customers learn
more about panto and get involved?
Kate: So we have a
website, which is er.io.
but we still are having some complaints
that there's not enough information, about
the product, the experience and steps.
please reach out to me.
I love live demos.
I'll hop on a call anytime,
like starting 4:00 AM.
To midnight?
to guide you through the product,
because I think, we'll find ways to
implement this into maybe a website
experience to give this, wow moment
where people get what we're building.
Because as people, Get it, they're
almost immediately turning into clients,
out of curiosity, out of excitement.
And of course, a lot of people
do share the vision and deeply
understand, what we're building,
which just inspires me a lot.
So yeah, please reach out to me
on LinkedIn, through the website.
We have, a wait list, and we're not
gonna let you wait probably reach
out next day or a couple hours.
Chris: Nice.
Yeah, I know he was introduced, by a
mutual friend and he's, quite, well
known in the industry and he's on board.
So I know someone like him
is interested in the product.
There's certainly, some
good stuff behind it.
you may not wanna say this now, but
I'll put you on the spot and ask anyway.
what kind of, cost would, be involved with
getting your, digital representation done?
Kate: Sure.
Yeah.
So we, I know it might sound a little
bit unfair, but we are rising the
cost with the rise of the demand.
So right now is a thousand
dollars per, per digital persona.
this includes a very cool
microphone to you wherever you are.
Yeah.
it requires some equipment, of course.
And if you have the mic, we're happy to
cut the cost, at the cost of the mic.
but in general, all of those, even
though it may sound to some people like
a lot, on the other hand, if you know
the cost for the technologies listed
here, you'll understand that we are.
literally just covering the costs to
serve, your persona through the year.
And, yeah, we're basically just right now
looking at this as a venture business,
maybe even a non-profit at first.
So all of those money will just cover
the costs to serve this, digital persona.
Basically, storage 11 labs,
the LLMs and probably like.
Also the good thing, is that as
we more features through the year,
they're all gonna be included.
You can request some stuff.
So if you believe in us, we're
happy to adjust, to your needs.
So, yeah, but in the future we see the
cost rising, like with implementing
hardware and the hologram, which
is I think a couple years from now.
But yeah, definitely the hardware
would probably make it more
expensive, but that would be.
Optional.
I mean, for some people who
are looking, for the hardware
device, which is pretty cool.
I think it'll almost
look like a survival kit.
Like literally you'll have
all the information about you.
Chris: Yeah, I was in, a memorabilia
shop today, and I was looking at Star
Wars figurines and kind of reminds me
of, watch TT do around tokens where
you get the special, trophy and if you
get a little starter kit and that'd
be really, really cool actually.
Kate: I live, in a startup flat.
not mine.
Chris: Fair enough.
Um, okay.
And in closing, what would you want people
to take away from this conversation about
pant and the product that you building?
Kate: I enjoyed, first of
all, Chris, thank you so much
for a lovely conversation.
this is the best conversation
to have, that early morning.
There is no even a
glimpse of, sunrise, but,
Chris: I.
Kate: I enjoyed it.
having some time and space to
share what I'm so passionate about.
I don't have a cool wine liner, to drop.
but yeah, hope everybody enjoyed it.
I know it's a very controversial
questions and people, would be divided
into techno optimists and be like, oh
no, we're all heading to an AI doomsday.
we're all gonna be replaced.
you're just contributing.
To an upcoming horror.
In general, just trying to, create
a good project and try to make
it serve, some good intentions.
Help solve deep fears
and, make wisdom last.
So yeah, really hope it resonates with
somebody who listened, till this point.
And yeah.
thanks so much for, the
time and, questions.
Chris: You are welcome.
Yes.
Thank you so much for joining us at 6:00
AM I know I'm based in Manchester in the
uk, but you've kindly, aligned our diaries
and got up early, so appreciate that.
And I think, you know, my closing thoughts
on this is someone going to, develop this.
Technology and, you know, a close friend
of mine just got back from China and
he was telling me some of the stuff
that's being developed over there.
And, you know, if we want someone
developing the, this kind of, you
know, digital representation, it,
we, we want it to, people doing,
doing it for the good reasons, the
right reasons and ethical reasons.
And I think it's really great to, see that
from you and Panio and your co-founder.
Kate: Thank you.
Chris: yeah, in closing, I'll add all
the relevant links to it, to Panio and,
you know, if people want to just follow
you guys, I'll put a few links in there
and, and I'll link to your profile in
case anyone wants to get the clone done.
I'm sure you'll be more than happy
for them, to reach out, as you say.
So, yeah, I've honestly
really enjoyed today, Kate.
So thank you so much for coming on and
being I guest and, yeah, maybe we'll do
a a a a part two in a year's time and
we'll see where the product's up to.
Kate: Thank you so much for the time.
Chris: Cheers, Kate.