The Dialog

In high school a friend asked me what I thought of his girlfriend. Honestly? I didn't like her. But I wasn't going to tell him, because he didn't want to hear it. He wanted to be validated in a decision he'd already made.

Most of us never grow out of that. We say we want feedback. We want positive feedback.

Proverbs is blunt about it: a wise person loves correction, and it's stupid to hate correction. My co-host Nick Surface and I talk about why correction is so hard to hear, why insecurity and arrogance are the same problem, and how to take feedback without feeling like your whole identity is on trial.

If wisdom is everywhere, why aren't more people wise?
Because wisdom comes through correction. You become a wise person by being correctable, and most people are really bad at receiving correction.

What's the difference between ignorance and stupidity?
Ignorance is when you don't know the right thing to do. Stupidity is when someone points it out and you decide to stay ignorant anyway.

Are insecurity and arrogance the same problem?
Yes. Pride is a spectrum with arrogance on one side and insecurity on the other, and both make life about you. Humility is making it not about you.

How do you take correction without feeling attacked?
Separate your behavior from your identity. Correction is about how your behavior affects someone, not who you are. And when you know God loves you perfectly, being told you're not good at something is just something to work on.

Scriptures
Proverbs 1:20 · Proverbs 12:1 · James 1:5 · Hebrews 12:5 · Jeremiah 17:9 · Philippians 2:5-7

People and ideas
Socrates: having his flaws pointed out served him
Ken Blanchard: feedback is the breakfast of champions
Erwin McManus: know what people need to hear

Chapters
0:00 Cold open and show intro
0:53 Writing a book in nine months
5:53 Why Josh hates marketing
6:55 What do people need to hear?
7:36 Leadership rises and falls on communication
9:20 People judge books by their covers
10:49 Authentic almost to a fault
11:51 Getting comfortable being wrong
12:15 Feedback is the breakfast of champions
13:20 Why aren't more people wise?
14:14 Wisdom comes through correction
15:28 Ignorance vs. stupidity
16:26 We want validation, not correction
17:03 Why do we push correction away?
17:49 It's pride
18:55 What marriage teaches you about feedback
20:09 Humility the way Jesus lived it
20:43 Arrogance and insecurity are both about you
21:57 Behavior, not identity
22:50 God's perfect love
25:21 Can you change how you do relationships?
28:43 "That's just who I am"
29:38 No two kids have the same parents
31:01 Sent doesn't mean received

Previous: 1.30 / How do you live with uncertainty?
Next: 1.32 / Why do people stop giving you feedback?

New episodes most weeks.
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Go to my website / https://jkc.is

What is The Dialog?

Ancient philosophers used the dialog to find answers to life’s greatest questions. The Dialog is a search for truth in modern life through the lens of ancient philosophy, history, and theology. This podcast will challenge your assumptions, change your thinking and show you how to master modern living.

No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world. I'm interested in one thing, the future, and believe me, I know the only way. To get there is together. What we've got here is failure. Milk cake. You may think you know what tribut, but believe me, you don't what the truth. You can't handle the truth. For centuries, philosophers have used the dialogue to search for truth, because it's through conversation, through the logos, that we find it. This is the dialogue where ancient philosophy, history and theology meet modern life. Together, we'll wrestle with big questions and give our answers to the way we live. Let's start the conversation. Oh, that book is almost a year. I mean I started in August at twenty twenty five, so that's what nine months. I don't know, dude. So you spent nine and how many words? Because you told me at one point the word count and it was insane. It was over one hundred thousand. I have two documents now, so I have a one document that is all the stuff I took out, which is about you know, fifty thousand words. And yeah, I have the document that's the actual book that I ended up with, and that's like seventy thousand, So I mean one hundred and twenty thousand page one hundred and twenty thousand word book is like five hundred page book. Okay, so hang on, let's catch everybody for good. It's just a lot of thoughts, no. But let's catch everybody up because I find this really interesting. So lots of like when we were younger, man like writing a book. If you wrote a book, it was like whoa, it was a big deal. Now, because of Amazon self publishing, pretty much anybody can can write a book. But there's an interestween being able. To write a book and then actually having success with it. Now I've been talking obviously you've written books and published them and sold them. Your dad has u and I was recently with John Bavie who's written quite. A few books and solds and millions of them. And so what every person I talked on, our friend Brittany or our mutual friend Brittany is writing one right now, And everybody I talked to talks about how much it's like is a laborious task, right, Like, I mean what you just said, so you basically wrote to my math to serve me correctly one hundred and thirty thousand words, like did you even did you like outline this or how do you I mean because I remember talking to you and I felt like you were like deep in the forest. I was sure you were going to make it to the other side, you know, like, how did you even start that? Well? I thought, you know, I thought it was really interesting what John said on You Guys podcast when you all had him on for like the three hundred episode, right or whatever, Yeah, theisode three hundred. Yeah, yeah, we just had two more kids. So I'm you know, we're doing this and I'm I'm pushing through my brain. I have a lot of brain fog. Context. Yeah, context is not your friend right now. You just know stuff happened. Right after, you know, like up up all night all that stuff. But father of five, by the way, let's just clap that. Well done. Man, that's doing it. You're a family of seven now, bro. They are legit many cars that will never service your family. Every restaurant for the rest of my life, I'll need a reservation. I can't just walk in and go eat somewhere. Just with me automatic fortuity as well. Probably that's true. I didn't think about that. So any man, Okay, sorry, yah hit me with the book. The book designer. Yeah, so I heard him talk about his his process, and you know it's just very much of a process. Yeah. I mean he sits down and just goes, Okay, well I'm gonna write a book and God's going to kind of lead me through that. And for me, it's like a really similar thing like I I it's the same way I write messages or really have created stuff. I mean, I never saw myself being a writer, right, So I never was like I mean I did. I was better at English than I was at math in school, so I like that better. But I wasn't like I wasn't like, I mean I get bees on English assignments. It wasn't like, oh my gosh, this is the best essay or you know, so a lot of people that are writers I feel like are good writers. Early, I wasn't really that way. So so I never thought i'd write anyway. The story I'm sure I think we talked about in the podcast before, but if not, the story is I I had done a series of messages and Mighty Men and talked about these connections like is my first book The Way to Live, Yeah, and I talked about all these connections between Biblical thinking and Stoic philosophy, and it was just kind of like a zoom in and I didn't intend on it being a book. And my dad was like, you need to turn this into a book. I'm like, I've never written a book before. He's like, just write a book. So I took the message notes and I turned them into a book. And that that kind of like it' which is an interesting thing that God does, you know. It kind of unlocked this thing that I was obviously put on the earth to do, and that's express through writing. Like I I wouldn't say in my life, I've ever really been I've never really seen myself as a great communicator. I wasn't like a gifted, talented great speaker. I've really worked a lot. I worked really hard to be a good communicator. I worked really hard to structure communication, to learn how to communicate with an audience and different stuff like that. So I never really saw myself doing that. So now that's how God's using me, which is really interesting. So God, I'm speaking a lot. I kind of get paid to think. I do a lot of coaching and then I write books. Right, So I write my books. But I've probably written eight or nine books at this point. I mean some of them in ghosts, written some of them books. Like I wrote a book in twenty twenty one. We did a series in the church called Elephant in the Room. There was critical race theory and DEI and all that. I wrote a whole book about it. And then I had it edited and I was going to self publish it, and then I was just like, yeah, I don't want to do this. So the book's just literally sitting in my heart. That's like the ultimate Josh Kraft thing to do. Yeah. Right, They're like, you know what about I actually don't want this. When I hate marketing so much, I mean, I love that you're a marketer, because it's not that I hate it, just it feels like work. It's a lot of work. Marketing is so much work, you know, and it's not exciting. I love the process of creating more than like getting the creation out to other people. So yeah, I think the reason you hate marketing. Sorry I'm going to interject here, is because you're very independent thinking, and I don't think you like to be constrained and like the very first thing you do in marketing is you start with a target market, right, and you identify and so by definition you now have to serve their needs, which is like a form of like, I've got all these thoughts and ideas in this place I want to go. And it's like, well, yeah, but if people don't want that, you need to go here instead. And that is inherently like you're that's just not how you're wired. Yeah, and me and You've had a lot of great conversations about that. It's like people are like, what's your target market? I'm like, I don't know whoever? Wants to be right? Right, that's that's not actually like I'll just say this as a disclaimer, it's not actually good to be that way, Like it's actually really bad because and we've talked about Erwin McManus in my relationship with him on this podcast before, so I've said similar things to him that I've said to you, like, hey, I don't care about this, I don't care about marketing. I don't care if anybody reads my book. He's like, what's wrong with you? Like, what do you mean? He's like, so God's given you this message and you believe it can change people and you don't care if it gets to them. I'm like, well, I mean I care. And so he told me this recently, told me this a few months ago. He said, you know, he said, you're really great at knowing what you want to say. And he goes, that's so important, and that's fifty percent of the battle. He said. What you're not great at that you need to work on is knowing what people need to hear. Right there, right, there's this balance in our life, in every ass Like everything really in life is about communication. Like people people talk about leadership and they say, well, everything rises and falls on leadership, right, But what is leadership rise and fall on? Leadership rises and falls on communication. Like if you're a parent, it doesn't matter how good of a parent you think you are. It matters how well you communicate that to your kids. You know, Like, if I'm not it's not even empathy. It's like, if I'm not aware of what my kids need to hear at the right time, I could say the right thing to my kids and ruin their life. I mean, there's a lot of people that probably listen to this podcast or people living in the world that have gotten so much truth, and the truth has destroyed them because there's no love in it. Right. So understanding communication is understanding the balance between grace and truth, right, And that's what love is is. It's like me figuring out how do I tell the truth but tell it in a way And we've talked about that on a few episodes. How do I tell the truth but then tell it in a way that a person can receive it? So for me, I'm really good at telling the truth. I'm good at being this really authentic communicator, but I'm not good at considering what people need to hear or the journey that people are on. And so right now in my life, I think that's been one of my biggest lessons to learn as a communicator is I can feel like there's this nobility in Oh. I don't care about marketing. I don't care about selling books. It's like you should actually care about that. Not because it's about your career and about making money, but everybody who buys a book, that's a person who's impacted. You know. Yeah, So if you if you create this esoteric, weird world that no one wants to live in, it could change someone's life. But the packaging is so poor that they don't care about it, right, And people do in life. They judge books by their cover. Yeah, for sure they do. Like what I always think about if you go to Netflix, man, think about how many millions of dollars have been spent on that title and you're making the decision based on a thumbnail. It's like, that's what YouTube is now, in a. Two sentence description of what's the what the if you even choose. To read that, because most of the time you just skip past you Like, you look at the title, you look at the picture, and you go mm m. And that's when you think about that. That's actually crazy. That's what Like YouTube has been so amazing, Like the mister Beast, he's you know, owned the game because he figured out thumbnails and now everybody's thumbnails look exactly like his. I have a friend, Grant Horvat, he's a bit YouTube golf guy, and he told me one time that the amount of you would not believe the amount of time that these guys spend on the thumbnail for a video. He's like the thumbnail of the videos everything. They spend so much time. So it's like you wouldn't think that, right, right, And so what people do, like people like me, is they go, well, it just shouldn't be that way, you know, like, it shouldn't be that way. So I'm not gonna do that, which means no one's gonna watch your stuff, Like, no one's going to listen to it, because it really is just the way that people work, right. So it's one thing to have a really great message and have a lot of really good stuff to say. It's another thing to package that in a way that people who aren't familiar with you and don't really have any kind of vested interest in hearing what you have to say will want to hear that, right. Yeah. So because you have one of the things I love about you, and I want to point this out, I think because you have such a I mean, you said it, but I want to highlight it. You are such an author, like you have such a need for authenticity, and so you're very authentic to people, almost to the point of a fault where people are like, you can't say that on stage and you're. Like, look, I'm going to be real with people. Yeah. Yeah, over sharing was the thing that you heard a lot, But it's because you have a need for authenticity. I actually think that's what allows you to connect with a lot of people, because I don't think you've ever gone on stage and said or done something, and people are like, I don't know if I believe this guy, because you'll go up there and be like, look, I don't even want to be a pastor. Like you know, and like nobody would recommide that you say that. We yeah, when we talked, you know, we talked just recently about the prove me wrong thing, like you you know, personally, like I don't agree with all that about tithing and you're just trying to enrich yourself. It's like, no, dude, I don't want to give either. Well you shouldn't say that, like as a pastor, like you should you should be like no, in my heart, I want to be I don't want to obey God. I don't want to like you know, your your heart's wicked. I believe that about myself. Right, So I'm I'm I'm really I'm really become comfortable in my life being like oh, yeah, I was wrong or I am wrong, or being pointed out, you know, having my flaws or my issues pointed out, and like what Socrates talked about was if someone proved him wrong or if someone pointed out his flaws, that he was served by that because it made him aware of what he needed to change. Yeah, and for so you know, Ken Blanchard said, my dad raised me with this, with this quote, this understanding. Ken Blanchard said, feedbacks to breakfast to champions. So I think a lot of people are just really bad at like, you get feedback all through your life. You get feedback from all different sources, and people are really bad at receiving it. And most of the time for most people, by the time you know, by the time some really big negative consequence happens, they've had fifteen chances to fix it and they just haven't. Not right, like like I have this in is a long This so like a long train of thought. But we started this by talking about what my writing process was. But yeah, feedback is and interesting. This is what I love about talking to you because we didn't even mention going to feedback. But I'm actually I've got a number of things going through my head to ask you, so keep going because I think this. I think feedback and identifying identifying it, identifying who's given it to you, and then like using it appropriately is a massive unlock to you because I've got yeah, well, you. Know, I'll do this really quick. So in the Book of Proverbs, the Bible says that wisdom shouts allowed in the streets, right, It's available everywhere the Bible. The Bible says, if you lack wisdom, ask God for it, and He'll give it to you freely. It's the only thing that the Bible says. God just gives us an infinite supply of infants supply wisdom. So I've always been like, if wisdom was more available, why aren't more people wise, even you know, especially Christians. I mean, so many Christians are just unwise people. They're they're just they're just not wise. So so I just walked through this journey of like, okay, what what is Proverbs say? Proverb says one of the things Proverb says, And I'm I'm like drawing this really quick. And because I have a whole longer thing, I'm probably gonna write a book about this. So I have a whole longer thing about it. But people like, how come more people aren't wise if wisdom shouts allout in the streets. And that's because that's because wisdom. Like the Book of Proverbs says that it's a wise person loves correction, and it's stupid to hate correction. Right, yeah, So so the Bible says that wisdom comes comes through correction. Right. So Proverbs one, Solomon's talking and he says, obey my instructions and listen to my warnings basically, and then you'll be and then you'll be wise. So feedback is the pathway to wisdom in your life. Feedback is how you become a wise person, is by being correctable. And the biggest problem that most people have is they're really really bad at receiving correction, and they and they have to be. So it's stupid to hate correction. So if you hate when people get you feedback as a business owner, as a person, as a spouse, even as a parent, like my kids give me a lot of feedback on how my parenting is affecting them. Right, So if I am really bad at receiving feedback, I'm gonna be stupid. I'm gonna do stupid stuff, right, And the danger of that is not just oh it's stupid to hate correction, Like it's one thing for us to be stupid being stupid is you're ignorant. You don't know you're ignorant, right, or well, I'll change that. There's a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Stupidity is when you're ignorant on purpose. So ignorance is ignorance. Ignorance is like I didn't know that was the right thing, and then someone pointed out to me what the right thing was. Stupidity is someone pointed out to me what the right thing was, and then I just decided to be ignorant anyway. So proverbs, Proverbs makes this distinction that, uh, if you love, if you love correction, your wise if you're it's stupid to hate correction. And there's all these verses I could give. I've talked about this like a few times in different in different rooms. So what's the difference between stupidity and ignorance. Ignorance is when I don't know something and I do and I do something that I shouldn't do right. Stupidity is when I know that I shouldn't do something and I just decide to do it anyway. Right. So when you get feedback, when a person gets feedback on what they're doing wrong, and they keep doing it, they're stupid that So correction is the Bible talks about in Hebrews. Don't despise the discipline of the Lord. Nobody likes correction. Nobody wants correction. Nobody wants really honestly, none of us want feedback. Like we don't want we want positive feedback. We want positive words of like hey, you're doing great, and everything's good and nothing's ever you know. There's so many people right that come to all of us and they say, hey, what do you think about this thing that I did? Or what do you think about Like I remember in high school, right, my friend's going, what do you think about my girlfriend? Your girlfriend sucks, dude. But I'm not going to tell him that because he really doesn't want to hear that. He wants to just be validated in the decision that he's making right, right, And people don't really out of that. So wisdom is hold on, man. I gotta I gotta interrupt you. Where do you think that comes from? Man? Because like in theory, like like okay, so this is like the difference. Between rationale and logic. Right, Logically, if you're driving over the edge of a cliff and I go, hey, Josh, you're head for a cliff man, like you're going to crash your car and probably kill yourself. And you're like, you know what, man, you screw you. Who do you think you are? You know I'm one, I'm the one with the steering wheel. Yeah, I'm the one. You didn't work hard to get this car. Who are you to Guys do with their wives all the time is like you're gonna run into somebody. No I'm not. Then you freaking run into them because you didn't listen. Right, But but but like what like, like I said, logically, somebody comes in tells you something, You're like, yeah, okay, check, Like I'm not going to do that. But that's not the experience. So like why, like do you do you have any thoughts on why people turn that away? Yeah? I mean why don't we listen to what God says to do in our life? I mean, it's pride. Everything's pride. Every like the root of the root of all all kinds of evil, the Bible says is pride. So what's what's pride? Pride is when I make my life about me, my way, how I want things to be, what I want to do. So if I'm ever in a space in my life where it's like all about what I think, and I'm not going to listen to anybody. I can. I can be prideful about doing things God's way, right, like I can become a Pharisee and go, oh, I'm so much better than everybody because I'm the most godly person. Right. And so there's this, there's this insidious you know, the Book of Jeremiah, and a lot of people don't have this worldview, but they should if they're a Christian. The Book of Jeremiah says, the human heart is desperately wicked, right, who can who contain it? So I have to admit to myself that when I get feedback or when I get correction, just to stay on this thread, I by default reject that because it's antithetical to my way. Right. So your wife says, I don't want you to treat me that way. I don't want you to talk to the kids that way. I don't want you know all the all the people that you know when you get married. When you first get married, right, you think you think that you're just well, a lot of people think this. I don't know if everybody thinks this, but you think you're gonna be the same you that you were. I think men think that, dude. Yeah, my wife loves me for me, and it's just so great. I'm going to create such a great life for her. Our family is going to be so amazing. And then that first year, the first five years of marriage, like I've been married almost twelve years, you just are getting told a lot of things you're doing wrong that no one's ever told you before, because nobody's lived with you on that level. Like I remember, I never thought I like snored and stuff. And then Courtney like probably the first you know, six months of your Marriage's like, man, you I can't even go to sleep. You snore so much. I'm like, I don't snore. Yeah, Like, yeah you do. I'm like, well, how would I be aware of my own snoring? I can't. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So you think, you know, we we have this kind of like default thing of like even the most and I've to go down the road of pride and then I'll come back to wisdom, so to me, Jesus said, or the Book of Philippians, Paul said, you should have the same attitude that Christ, Jesus had he humbled himself, he took the form of slaves. So humility is the way God wants us to live. If we're going to live like Jesus, well, what is humility, right? Humility? What a lot of people think is humility is not being egotistical and arrogant. So they look at arrogant people and they look at arrogance, and we can easily define arrogance and they go, oh, you know, as long as I'm not arrogant, I'm a humble person. It's like no to me. Pride is like a spectrum, and humility is on one arrogance is on one side, and insecurity is on the other side. The thing about arrogance and insecurity is they're both about you. When you're insecure and when you're arrogant, you're doing the same thing. You're making life one hundred percent about you. So the thing for an insecure person is they're making life about what a piece of crap they are. Like, they're like, oh, I'm so awful and my life is so those people. But the thing is those an insecure person is just as bad at receiving feedback as an arrogant person because For an insecure person, feedback destroys them. They're like, oh, I know, you know, they like this is the person that you know. They go get coaching. They're in high school and they're not that good of a player, and their coach coaches them, and then they quit the team because they can't handle the coaching. Right, that's what an insecure person does. An arrogant person they don't get coaching because they think they know it all already. Right, So both. Responses are the incorrect response the right response. Humility in a biblical the biblical to me, a practical biblical definition of humility is just when I make it not about me, right. So I'll come back to correction on that. If my wife corrects me, then what she's talking to me about is not my identity as a person. She's talking about my behavior, and those are two different things. Your identity and your behavior aren't the same thing. My behavior is affecting her in a certain way, So if I don't want to affect her that way, I need to change my behavior. And the way a lot of people think is my behavior is also my identity. So the way I act is also the way that I am. And if you do that, you're going to either be very arrogant or you're going to be very insecure. Because when a person who's really insecure thinks that their behavior is who they are, they can't ever get feedback about changing their behavior because they don't really believe they can change their behavior. They're just trying to get people around them, who around them who are going to be okay with how they are. Yeah, I mean, so I'm glad you touched her identity because that's where my mind was going while I was thinking about this. I think it's if you haven't really been loved well. And what I feel like I constantly come across is you had great parents. Your parents love you deeply. You didn't have to earn their love. They gave you. You know, your dad's a very godly man and he had a very clear picture of how he was going to raise kids. Now, saying all that, for as well as your dad loved you, you still need to have the revelation of the love of Christ in order to be really secure and rested in who you are to the point that you can take feedback. And I think that there's I think that there's two things that we we Oftentimes we will attribute to somebody like you, like, oh, well you had a good dad and I didn't, so that automatically gives me an excuse of why I just can't have what you have, and or we try and put it on somebody else, and really, like when you have the revelation that it's only whenever, it's only that you. The only person who can love you the way you need to be loved perfectly is God, regardless of how good or bad your parents are. It kind of removes the equation because your dad also said something that I love where he says, your dad, God gave you to the parents that you had for a reason. So you can't sit there and be like, oh, you know if my parents were better, because what you're basically saying is Lord, you didn't really know what you were doing, and that's absolutely not accurate. You're there to learn lessons what to do more of what not to do, right, but when you realize that you need God's perfect love I think, to be loved perfectly, and to know that you can't earn it, that it's one hundred percent based on him and actually has nothing to do with you. It's just that he's decided to love you. He's infinite, he's God, he doesn't change, he's not he's not a man that he changed his mind. Now it's like, okay, well, if I don't have to do anything to earn love, that like removes so much of the complication of like, oh what do these people think about me? Like you know, you know, because now there's no sliding scale of approvals, like you're loved, you're in, like you're you know, you don't get thrown out of your family because you had a bad day at school, right, you know. Like I'm always a little bit worried when I see And I had an email from a CEO that I worked with recently where you're referred to the team as family, and I was like, nope, because I don't fire my kids, but like you will one hundred percent fire other people. But I think I think there's a lot to that, because if you love perfectly, you can be told you're not good at something, You're like okay, and like it's like that's just something to work on. It's not like damaging blow to all that you held dear about what made you valuable. And I don't think people really dive into that identity at that level. But I think that that base level of under of having love allows all of the other pillars of identity to. Be built on. It's foundational. Well, I mean there's also like doctor Robbie talks about this, yes, and it's a psychological thing. I'm not a psychologist, but there's there's what's called attachment theory, right of how you do relationships. Yes, And one of the things I've heard him say is, you're your attachment style is set by the time you're seven years old. It's like the default way that you do relationships is set by the time you're seven, right, So it's really based on like so much of our relationship, really, our relationship to God, our relationships to other people are based on our relationship with our parents. Yright. So like my perspective on God all growing up was because of how I saw my dad. And for most people that's still true. They just can't they just don't really diagnose it that way. So I have what's called secure attachment because I had great parents. So you know, secure attachment is like I have a positive So there's like basically an attachment theory. It's like you have a positive view of yourself, you have a positive view of other people, or you have a or you have a negative view of other people and a negati view of yourself. So a person who has a negative a negative view of themselves and a negative view of other people is what's called avoidant. Right, So they're very insecure, but also they're insecure about their relationships with other people. They want they want to be loved, but also they reject intimacy at the same time. This isn't like a whole discussion on attachment theory. Right, there's anxious, there's ancient, it's there's like anxious, which anxious is your your have a negative view of yourself, but you have a positive view of other people. And then you have like avoidant, which avoidant is you have a good view of yourself but a negative view of other people. So all that to say, this is a fine psychological theory. And what a lot of people that do attachment theory say is, well, if your attachment style is set by the time you're seven, then it's really up to your parents to make sure that you're like a secure person. That's in my opinion, in my professional opinion as a person with a film degree, we can ask doctor Britney, our friend who's a clinical psychologist, right, and we can ask doctor Robbie. But in my opinion, that's fine until you learn about how you do relationships. Then once you've learned about how you do relationships, you have the ability to change it because you're no longer ignorant. So you could have gone like your whole life and done relationships poorly based on how you're raise is blah blah blah. But then the problem is not that, right to me, The problem is when people become aware of it and they still keep doing relationships the same way, and they still keep blaming the thing that they've now become aware of. So if you didn't have good relationships with your parents, or if you didn't have good parents, it's not that this is easy, but you can be different than them. You can get around the right people. There's a whole bunch of stuff. You can go get therapy, there's a whole bunch of great things you can do to become a healthy person. The the. Determinate factor in that is whether or not you listen to anybody who's trying to help you. Again, this is like back to correction. So you're not so what we think. What a lot of people do, even like Christians and all that, is they turn like a personality profile or a psychological evaluation into the Bible. So they think, Okay, I'm an introverter, I'm an extrovert. Thus, saith the Lord. I have a dysfunctional life. If they saith the Lord, I am insecure, I'm arrogant, I'm egotistical, I'm a narcissist. Whatever. Like the whole diagnosis is they go, oh, well, that's just who I am. Well do you want to be that? That's really the question. Do you want that? Well, no, I don't want that. Okay, Well, scripture says you can change by changing your thinking. God can change anything about you, right, He made you, and yeah, like on a level right in your family, like you're saying, He puts you in the situation that you're in for like a specific reason. You might not have wanted to be in that situation. That might not have been but everything is ultimately about perspective, right. So me and me and my dad were talking about this today actually we were talking on the phone, and you know, no kids are really raised by the same parents as what he was kind of sharing with me because you have There's two dynamics. One is apparent changes who they are based on the individual kid all of us that have kids, No, that's true. Like you look at the relationship and you go, okay, well what does this person need versus what does this other person need? Right, like my kids, Like one of my kids who's not who's really a good listener. I don't have to correct her very strongly. I don't have to be honor you know, my other kid that's not a good listener. It's like you get a lot more intensity, a lot quicker because you're not listening, right, I'm not anyway. So that's the first dynamic, is you're going to decide who to be based on the relationship. But then the second dynamic is what's that person's perspective on who you are and what you did? So when and my dad tells this really great story about a conversation you have with my sister who's correcting or really strong and she's a teenager, and she said to him, Hey, the way you're talking to me doesn't work for me, right, which you almost like, hope's almost a teenager. Oh she is a teenager. Teenager now show. Let me know if so. Is that easy or hard for you to hear? Honestly, it's not hard for me to hear at all, because I think you know, I kind of adopt this from Garrett like scent doesn't mean received. My job is communicators, not to say what's on my mind. My job my communicators to make sure the person gets the message. That needs to be transmitted. So yeah, so when you care about that, you'll listen to the feedback for sure, because what you say is always at the mercy of a person's level of understanding. Right, What I say and what I do is not my identity, It's just how I'm communicating in that particular moment. Thank you for listening to the dialogue. Make sure to like, share and subscribe. And also if you think someone else would enjoy this, please send it to them. If you want to get in touch or learn more about me what I think, speak and write, you can go to Joshuacraft dot com or you can also follow Nick and I on Instagram. Our handles are in the show notes. We'll see you next time.