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This is FERMAT Fridays, your backstage pass to what’s going on at FERMAT.
Join us every Friday as we chat about what we're cooking up, the strategy behind it all, and of course our general musings.
Expect juicy insights on new features, our latest experiment results, and whatever else is making waves in our world. Whether you're an existing customer or just a little FERMAT curious, this podcast will keep you up to date and entertained.
Alex McEachern (00:01.134)
All right, welcome back everyone to Fermat Fridays. And these are my favorite Fermat Fridays, because I've got a customer joining the pod today. I've got Jen Johnson from Union Brands joining. And Union Brands is a little bit of a unique situation, Jen. So I was hoping that to start this off, maybe you could explain what Union Brands is for our listeners.
Jen (00:23.106)
Yeah, absolutely. So we're kind of a unique model in terms of a business model because we are not just strictly an agency and we're not strictly a brand. So we have kind of this hybrid three pillar model where we have owned brands that we develop from product design through branding to execution. Then we have kind of a joint venture projects that we work on with OEM type of
customers for their clients too. And then we have just the straight agency work, which we really specialize in direct to consumer high average order value products. That's really our sweet spot and what we love to do.
Alex McEachern (01:08.016)
Amazing. Great summary. So in terms of the own, like we've got the own brands, we've got the agency work, I know we're gonna talk about a few of those own brands as it relates to, I guess through this conversation, we're gonna talk about acquisition strategies, opportunities, some pitfalls that you kind of run into. For the brands we're gonna talk about today, do you mind just giving like a quick overview of...
What are the brands? What did they sell? What's the price point? Like, let's give people a little bit of an understanding of like the type of acquisition and the type of marketing we're going to be talking about.
Jen (01:39.67)
Absolutely. So Gladly Family is our baby brand. It's literally our baby and it's for babies. It's a stroller wagon focused brand. That was our first product that we came out with. And so we've been around for a little less than three years and it's been an amazing explosion. have, we've definitely crossed way over the six figures mark and revenue, which is awesome. And you know, the thing is that
getting into the baby products industry, people really need trust. So it can be hard for a new brand to break in. So we have to be really intentional about our messaging and how we treat our customers and our customer experience. And it's also an expensive product. So we have wagons anywhere from $4 .99 to $8 .99 for the quality and the value that we offer, value proposition compared to what's on the market. We are quite good.
but still it's a lot to ask someone to spend. And so we want to make sure we communicating everything to them that they need to know to make the decision. And it's also not an in -store purchase because, you know, a few years ago, bye bye. sorry. what's it called? babies are us went out of business there by, by baby things are changing there. So there's not a lot of places, to see the product in person. So we have to be able to show and not just tell.
If that makes sense.
Alex McEachern (03:10.254)
No, that makes a ton of sense. And I love that because I know we're going to hit on the show and not just tell component of this as we go through as well. in terms of, okay, we know a little bit about the product, we know a little bit about union brands. Let's go into kind of like acquisition in D2C right now. So in terms of what you're seeing, what's on your mind, what's on your plate right now, like what do you see as kind of like some of the biggest opportunities or maybe some of like the biggest...
problem areas right now when it comes to D2C acquisition.
Jen (03:41.71)
I think especially when it comes to Gladly or any product that has a high dollar figure, it's about the timing that it takes for the person to be exposed to the brand and the product and then to get them to make the decision. And how do you get into their consideration set? What we found is that it takes seven to 10 days from the first digital touch point for the person to make the decision to make the purchase. And, you know, I always harp on the whole
conversion rate optimization, you'll see all these ads all over Instagram of agencies, like they're gonna put it through the roof of your website. But the problem is that your website also has to be a brand flagship. despite the awesome tools that we have with platforms like Shopify, our team is a Shopify partner, but it can be very difficult to make all of those kinds of changes and test them to your shop.
And that's where the Fermat Shop really helps because we can segment different messages, different audiences, different third party validation and test all of that without a heavy lift of making all these changes to the website, which is time consuming, expensive, and it might not work.
Alex McEachern (05:04.398)
In terms, like, let's go deep. I want to go deeper on like the segmenting a message audience, social proof, that sort of thing. So we'll come back to that in a second. But you said something really interesting there that I want to dig a little bit deeper on. like, hey, we're doing all we're doing all this and we can do it on the website. But the website has to be a brand flagship. Like, can you expand on that a little bit more? Like, why? Why is that?
Jen (05:11.182)
Mm
Jen (05:28.854)
Well, for me, it's a problem because not so much with Gladly, but let's just say another one of our customers. They want to segment two different, very different demographics who we know can use their products. And if we change all the messaging on the website to appeal to only one core demographic, these secondary demographics are going to fall by the wayside or vice versa. And we know that different audiences respond better to different messages.
So like, I guess for Gladly, an example might be, yes, of course, we're going to be talking about beach season in the summer, but we can offer targeted offers to specific groups that we don't have to also put on our website. Because another issue is, if you are building your brand, you do not want to be training consumers that you're like 20 % off this week, 10 % off this week.
on your website, know, on these big like, yes, there are times that you want to have like a site wide sale, but like once or twice a year. But being able to offer different demographics offers that are enticing to them in a more structured way is very beneficial.
Alex McEachern (06:45.24)
I think I a super, super insightful. And like one thing we say it for all the time is that the website has to be average and like not average in a bad way, but average in a good way, right? Like you don't know who's like, you could be coming in from this message. You could be coming in wanting this. So it kind of has to be a Jack of all trades where a lot of times in your ads, you don't want to be a Jack of all trades. You want to be a master of one. And I want to go target and do something very specific.
Jen (06:56.042)
Yes.
Jen (07:07.394)
That's right. And I think it's important to recognize too that like, yes, websites are for e -commerce, but they have other purposes too. We have brand building purposes. have investor purposes. Like if you just want, you could have a lot of bells and whistles that could actually denigrate your brand or take your brand down a little bit in the eyes of the customer. So it's just not.
It's not a one size, it needs to be a one size fits all. It can't be so specific, I guess. That's why I like what you're saying. It needs to be average. Like it needs to be able to appeal to all the demographic of people that are going to be looking at the site and trying to understand about your brand and company.
Alex McEachern (07:54.456)
And I think that's why so many DTC marketers have become so, I don't know what the word I want to use here is. I'm going to use the word obsessed. I don't know if that's the word I actually want to use with like with paid social ads, right? Because paid social, like when I go, I can change messaging. I can change visuals. Like it's very easy for me to experiment at the ad level than it is at the site.
Jen (08:05.152)
Hahaha!
Jen (08:15.372)
Yes.
Alex McEachern (08:20.346)
But I think like one of the problems historically is when you want to be a master of one, you make all this like great, like these new, like you were saying, I go after a new message, a new value prop. go after a new audience and I say these things at the ad level, but where am I going to, where am I going to put them from here? Do I put them into my average site?
Jen (08:20.791)
Yes.
Jen (08:36.886)
Yes, and then.
And then when the person hits that, and then what are you gonna do, like spend all this time making all these specialized landing pages? I mean, and then your site gets messy and slower, can be slower too, right? Cause you've got like all these tons of different things where you're driving, but it's not very, it's not so easy to always make those things very e -commerce optimized, based on whatever theme you're using.
and you want to still keep the brand presentation. what we've definitely seen is when you're just driving to the website sometimes, if you're trying to have a different message and the landing page doesn't pay off with what the ad messaging was, boom, they bounce. Because they're like, where am I? I don't get this. This doesn't make sense. I'm moving on to the next thing because everyone has such a short attention span online. If this doesn't connect the dots for me in five seconds, then see you later. I'll go check something else out.
Alex McEachern (09:41.424)
1000 % agree and you hit on a few like you actually talked about like scoped offers to which I think is like a really interesting one where hey I want to I want to present an offer to someone or like a particular group but I don't want that to be available to everything and again when you're driving everyone to the site like scoped offer and like offer experimentation becomes very difficult on the site because you're always gonna have like I call it kind of leakage right like
Jen (10:04.169)
Yes.
Alex McEachern (10:07.724)
you are going to try to make it so that only a particular group can find it, inevitably everyone will eventually find it. And you're not really like scoping that offer to a particular audience anymore.
Jen (10:17.87)
And then, and if you want to just test an offer to see if it's resonating or not before you make it a widespread offer, it makes it very difficult. And also, let me tell you right now that moms, moms and dads, parents, audience, they talk to each other online. And I can tell you every day people at customer service will say like, I heard somebody got this offer. I heard somebody got that offer. So.
We want to make sure obviously we're being fair to everyone, but we also as a business need to be able to test things before we roll them out. So having it all on website and just doesn't, it doesn't work for us.
Alex McEachern (11:02.512)
So earlier you were talking about being able to segment on audience, segment on message, segment on different types of social proof. You were talking a bit, you've already started to hit on how FERMÀT has kind of helped you do some of these things. So maybe in terms of those three pillars, how has FERMÀT been different for you versus the website for when you want to start to try to chop things up like this?
Jen (11:29.624)
So the speed of putting the shops together has been amazing. We can bang out like five different shops in like an hour or so, right? Because we have all these pieces that we've added. Also the AI generation helping to create snippets, which are just these little modules of messaging that we can save and reuse has really cut down a lot on our time scale.
I'll give an example of another brand that we work with as a customer, is Bravo Monster RC cars. They are really cool. are like luxury, very high design level RC cars. I love to brag about them because they're the only RC car in the world that has won a Red Dot Design Award. And if you're a designer nerd like me, then you just feel like, and they're really cool. They drift like the it's amazing, but there's two audiences for that.
that are very, different. One is the audience that is an older guy with a high household income, right, who enjoys playing with these cars. And then the other audiences are like kids who like to play with RC cars. And then there's a third audience, which is like RC car racers and enthusiasts. Apparently there's a whole network of RC car racers, which I have just learned about. So the messaging to those three groups,
Buying it as a toy, buying it as a fun thing to put in your office, and you're the CEO or something of a company, or buying it to race with other cars, those are very different people that we need to speak to. So it just makes it so much easier. And we can also, when we find things that really work, we can clone the FERMÀT shop and just keep the structure that works and then change the creative. And that makes everything so fast.
Alex McEachern (13:26.352)
I love that. So I recently found out about RC racing as well. I've watched a few too many TikTok videos on this. So now my TikTok feed is all the racers with their like coming up into the pit stop. They're flipping them over and injecting them with like gas and then send sending them off. So definitely, definitely know about the world, but very interesting, right? Because like we have three different audiences here. We've got kids, we've got like collectors and we've got like performance RC users and like those are different.
Jen (13:33.73)
Sorry.
Jen (13:41.807)
Thank you.
Jen (13:53.388)
Yes, well see you described them way better than I did.
Alex McEachern (13:59.869)
We'll steal this and get them into the Fermat shops to.
Jen (14:00.482)
Good job. Okay, yes. That's who they are, but I like how you did that.
Alex McEachern (14:06.48)
So we have like these three audiences, right? And like not only being able to like segment at the ad level to try to like go find that particular demo, that particular sociographic like of who this is, but then like we were talking about earlier, being able to speak to that. So like, my guess is that as you're talking to these three different personas, like not only being able to build like post -click experiences for that audience, but then like you were talking about the messaging. Like my guess is that
in each of these personas, probably have like a list of different value props that we can actually like be very specific to from ad to full funnel.
Jen (14:43.982)
and different pictures and videos and that kind of thing too. And what's been amazing is Bravo Monster is actually available globally. It's new to the US since May. It's actually super popular in Japan. But imagine it's August. Imagine that a brand new brand only selling on DTC has a 5 % conversion rate using Vermont Shop.
Alex McEachern (15:14.936)
love.
Jen (15:15.106)
I that has never, I'll just honestly say, I haven't seen that before in that short amount of time. So it just proves what I always say, which is the right message, the right offer to the right people at the right time. And that's where you get success.
Alex McEachern (15:35.418)
So from your perspective, that conversion rate is a byproduct of being able to speak specifically from ad through to lander, through the product descriptions, the way you offer and merchandise this, end to end is the reason for that.
Jen (15:54.122)
Yes, but I also think another contributing factor is the fact that the Vermont shops have a very good structure so you can change the modules right so you can change the order of things. But your team has been so helpful in working with our team to share best practices and give examples and kind of like talk about what you're seeing working. It's more than just the landing page. It's more than just.
the messaging. It's all how this all works together because it's the structure of the page and how the person walks through and at what points do we hit them with the offer? At what point do we hit them with the buy now button? When do we want to hit them with the product grid so they can check out other things? That's an important component as well, I feel.
Alex McEachern (16:43.332)
Love that. out to Grace. We'll give her a shout out on the pod.
Jen (16:46.944)
I love Grace. I'm obsessed with Grace. She's so smart.
Alex McEachern (16:52.752)
So with like, as you were talking about that, the structure of this and being able to like present things in a specific way, like I'm just thinking through these kind of like three personas that we have for the RC cars. it's like, imagine you're speaking to this like hardcore racing enthusiast and like they get onto a landing page is talking about performance and all this stuff. And then like they click through from the landing page to like the details page and like that details page is
showing visuals and talking about families with kids and going out and just playing with this in the parking lot, done, exactly, goodbye. I think that's, when you were talking there, that's one of the biggest things, at least one of the biggest values that I see with FERMÀT is, you can always go build a custom landing page, but that is only one step further in the funnel than the ad. people need...
Jen (17:25.358)
You're done. They're like, goodbye. Yes. Yes.
Alex McEachern (17:46.532)
You need that specificity all the way through that we were talking about. Cause like you said, if it gets to that point and I see that and I'm gone, like there, there really isn't any recovering from that because now you are a kid's toy. You're not a performance machine.
Jen (17:49.836)
Yes.
Jen (17:58.574)
Yes, and what's super interesting to me is you know when we I'm just looking at my looking at my analytics dashboard right now but it's interesting to see how much is the in unit purchase so that seamless experience and even with a gladly with wagons that are you know, it's a five to nine hundred dollar purchase we see a lot of in unit conversion meaning that the person is making the purchase without even going
Alex McEachern (18:04.27)
you
Jen (18:27.072)
all the way, it checks out on our Shopify site, but the person isn't going all the way into our website. And I find that fascinating because they were convinced by the message in the Fermat shop and they were ready to buy and they did it. And then of course we have additional revenue that we can track. Well, like the last time that they visited, the last click before they made a purchase on our website was Fermat, which I also appreciate the attribution that you guys do because
It's very truthful. It's like, okay, it's the last click. If the last place they visited before they make the purchase was a Fermat shop, Fermat gives credit and says, okay, we claim that sale. But it's not like if they go somewhere else and you probably still should get some credit, but I appreciate that level of transparency on the attribution model as well.
Alex McEachern (19:17.616)
I love that you brought that up because I was actually going to ask this question with like a $400 price, 400 to $800 price point, like in unit conversion or like, Hey, ad click to actually make a purchase. My assumption there would be for like big ticket items like that, that that might be, that might be pretty low, but you're saying like, Hey, we're actually seeing people go from ad and like there's enough here for them to feel like they've gone through enough of consideration. They've learned enough to actually make a purchase right then and there.
Jen (19:28.366)
Mm
Jen (19:45.186)
And that was a surprise to me because when we started, I think we started with Vermont in May. And when that happened, I also thought, well, it might not work for Gladly. This is such a high order value. It's a considered purchase because it's something they use for a long time, right? use it for, you know, if you have kids, you're using it with the first one, the second one, there's like a three to five year period when you're using this thing. But this is always just goes to show.
You can make assumptions, but you might be wrong. And I never like to make an assumption because I don't know everything. The market changes super fast and we can use our expertise to directionally and, but you have to like test to understand what's, what's really going to happen. So, yeah, that's been very interesting and surprising to me in a great way. Yes.
Alex McEachern (20:39.182)
in the best way. like, so being able to test all these things, think like something you and I were talking about previously is like testing versus experimenting and like having kind of like big ideas versus like small optimizations. Like has that, has that been something that's been easier to do with a tool like Vermont versus maybe some like more like AB testing type tools?
Jen (20:59.692)
Yup.
Jen (21:03.758)
Yeah, 100 % because I feel like the small optimizations are already built in in the way that your team has studied and put together the modules, all of that's like baked in. So we don't have to do that much work on that side of things. You know, I always talk about how, you know, there's all these things. If you go Google conversion rate optimization, you're going to find all these articles about like make the buy button green or
you know, put your social proof above the full like, okay, duh, we know that. Yes. I mean, we got it. But that's not that that's not a that's not a deep enough dive, I guess in 2024 to move the needle for sales. don't I don't think
Alex McEachern (21:53.27)
It, it's so funny because like, feel like the default answer to, Hey, I don't know is let's go test it. And like, I'm, all for testing, but sometimes you're testing things that are just like, again, it's just going to be like a plus one, right? Like, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And like, so -and -so doesn't like this placement or so -and -so for like opinions is like the D like an easy thing to say is like, let's just test it. And usually it's just to be like, well, like, I just don't want to like,
Jen (22:05.974)
A best practice at this point. It's a best practice. Yeah.
Alex McEachern (22:21.592)
we're comparing opinions, whereas like, instead of thinking about these small things, like, what if we could go unlock a brand new audience? What if we could bring a new value prop into the market? Like these are things that can actually be net new revenue streams rather than just like an optimization to be slightly more efficient than we already were.
Jen (22:23.902)
Yes.
Jen (22:37.963)
Yes.
Jen (22:41.486)
And that's a hundred percent true. There is a huge fallacy because everybody talks right now, you know, everyone has to have data driven in front of their name, right? If they're a marketer, we got to say we're data driven this and that I this hilarious meme that was like, you know, somebody smiling and laughing and the person crying notes, the person crying was data driven marketing. And then, you know, all audiences, 18 to 65 plus was like cheering because it is, cause that's the one I converted. But.
There's a sort of diminishing returns sometimes with testing. If you get too granular with your testing, you are missing the forest for the trees. And what you're saying is about unlocking new audiences. We don't need to test some of this stuff. It's not going to really add value in a meaningful way.
Alex McEachern (23:38.826)
I something that I've been talking a lot about internally is like this concept of like how many when it historically when it wasn't easy to make custom experiences, like how many good ideas just kind of like died on the vine because Hey, exactly. And it was like, great, great hook, great hold, great click through, but the efficiency wasn't there. And it's like, okay, all these like potentially new markets, new, new like ways to merchandise.
Jen (23:54.833)
because it's too difficult, too time consuming, too much effort.
Alex McEachern (24:08.44)
all just kind of like, yeah, we're not gonna do that because it too difficult to match an experience to it. So let's change the ad to match the experience. So all these ads end up just being like slightly different versions of the same thing optimized for a single path.
Jen (24:13.678)
Mm
Jen (24:23.256)
Well, that actually what's interesting to you, you've got me thinking about this is we have used FERMÀT shop links in PR for Bravo Monster with incredible results, which is a kind of a different use case than just social ads. But what's really cool about that is like we had a placement in uncrate, which is the perfect audience that we're talking about the collector audience and that link from PR converted so well.
because it was designed for that audience in that particular public relations placement. So one thing people always love to talk about is like, PR, like how can we track the value of PR and this and that. I don't, I feel a little bad because I don't, think PR is very valuable beyond just sales and it's important third party validation for the brand and SEO and everything like that. But.
That's a way that you can see directly what kind of sales came out of that public relations placement. So we're going to be doing that more.
Alex McEachern (25:31.18)
Amazing being able to being able to track it. But like you were saying there, like, Hey, this is for the collector audience. But like one thing we didn't even talk about at the beginning here is like matching experiences to the context of the click, right? Like we talked a lot about paid ads here and like, Hey, someone coming from like a static Facebook image versus a Tik TOK video. Like these are very different platforms, very different, like visualizations of your ads. And like if it's too
Jen (25:44.558)
So important.
Jen (25:53.015)
Yes.
Alex McEachern (26:00.912)
broken between like what I clicked on and what I landed on then like I'm probably going to bounce. So like in a PR like I'm featured in a magazine or I'm featured in like a digital article if you're able to move someone into kind of like an article type experience that's going to be less jarring than just like dropping them to a site.
Jen (26:17.346)
Yeah, it's continuing the experience for them. And that brings up one of our best performing shops for Gladly. This summer has been this beach idea. So a lot of the ads were UGC influencer content of taking their kids to the beach and having like this beach experience day because it's not just about buying the stroller wagon. It's about what can it do for your life? Like what's the actual benefit? Like we can talk features all day long, but that's later.
Alex McEachern (26:40.26)
Yes.
Jen (26:44.226)
the first, when you're first getting to know the product, it's like, well, why, why, what is this going to make my life better? Especially if you're a parent, cause I'm a five year old and like, I'm tired. I need to like, you know, understand how does this make my life better? So what we saw was that video when it comes into the Vermont shop right away, the hero creative is the static photo of that family at the beach. So as soon as you click from there and you hit that page, you're like,
this is a continuation of the story. This is that same family that I just saw having fun. Now I can get into the, it does this, it does that, blah, blah, blah.
Alex McEachern (27:23.776)
I love the funnel that you're referencing and we'll have it up here on the screen for everyone to take a look at. yeah, like, so I look at the product and like, have a three -year -old son and ironically, I was just at the beach last weekend trying to push my regular stroller to the beach.
Jen (27:38.968)
my gosh, we'll send you a wagon, okay? We sent Grace a wagon, so we'll send you a two. You guys can test it out for us.
Alex McEachern (27:44.424)
But it's like, I have felt the pain of trying to get all of my son's stuff to the beach and trekking my stroller through the sand. like I landed on that. I brought that funnel up and the features didn't even need to necessarily be like laid out for me. It's just like, look at all the stuff. Like, I can hang that there. my God, that can come with me. Exactly. Exactly.
Jen (28:02.766)
Yeah, because visually you see it. Yes, yes. You visually understand in a way that is more meaningful than just reading a big list or even just seeing the product. You do need to see the product on white and the details, whatever, but seeing the user and having it looks like they're having a great experience. And they're like, I get it. I kind of want to have that too. Let me look at this more.
Alex McEachern (28:28.713)
Love that. Okay, so we talked a lot about a lot about a lot here. One of my favorite questions to ask all customers who come onto the show is if I was to ask you to explain for mot to your colleague somewhere else, what would you say for mod is?
Jen (28:33.752)
Mm
Jen (28:46.418)
I would say Fermat is a conversion tool. I don't know if that's what you're looking for from an answer perspective. that's kind of hard for me to say because what I love about it is it's sort of a new model from a lot of other things that other marketing tools that we use. I'd like that you have these best practices built in. I like that you have the testing built in the drag and drop stuff.
and you also have the support from the team. You have the AI tools to make things faster. So you guys are kind of a bit of a hybrid yourselves, which I appreciate. Because it also allows us to have a smaller team get bigger results faster.
Alex McEachern (29:29.141)
That's a good point.
Alex McEachern (29:34.584)
Yes. We, that's one thing we didn't even talk about is like the band, the bandwidth side of this, right? Is like, we alluded to it with, Hey, if everything's going to the site, like we talked about, has to be like, if it's a flagship, needs to be average. like, that's, that's just one piece of going to the site. And the other piece is like, okay, I want to, I want to make a page. Okay. Do I have like, do I have the resources to do that? Dev design.
Jen (29:40.98)
yeah.
Alex McEachern (29:59.19)
someone to think through like the conversion rate optimization of this. There's just like so many people involved in a site build, theme conflicts, app conflicts. There's just so much to think about.
Jen (30:02.339)
Yes.
Jen (30:07.486)
Yes, yes, and that's a huge issue. And it's a time suck. And it's really not even necessary. It's a resource suck and a time suck. then what happens when you have that situation, and I've definitely worked in companies where this has happened, somebody will come up with this great idea that they want to try, right? But then you go into a meeting and it's like, so and so can't do this.
we're hosted on this and the ERP system can't connect and just like, you know, just dies on the vine. And it makes it so slow moving and it can't keep up with what's happening in the marketplace. Which is sad because a lot of really cool marketing ideas just kind of get left on the table.
Alex McEachern (30:58.478)
Yep. You get lost in the details of trying to think of everything that could go wrong with the site. Where if you're able to build something in isolation, makes it sound weird and bad, but in isolation of all those potential conflicts just lets you build things faster, therefore try more things, therefore find winning outcomes faster.
Jen (31:20.352)
Yeah. I mean, I think, I know it sounds like you're saying isolation sounds bad, but I think it actually sounds good in a way because it's like encapsulated, right? We can create this whole experience and without, you know, in, in a few hours, if even that long, once you get used to it, without having to touch the website or break this or that, or cause like this huge issue with operational teams and logistics teams, you know, now we have this ability. So.
Alex McEachern (31:30.083)
Mm
Jen (31:50.03)
You don't have to go outside and touch all these other areas of the organization.
Alex McEachern (31:56.944)
Amazing. Jen, I feel like I could just talk to you forever. We could probably make this like a two hour episode, but to...
Jen (31:59.534)
Nobody wants that. Nobody wants to hear me talking for two hours. But I do love Fermat and it's been such an amazing tool. Like we are so happy to have found you guys. I just can't wait to see what we're gonna do next together. It's gonna be great.
Alex McEachern (32:18.776)
Amazing. I'm glad that we got to partner and like I talk to Grace all the time and she's always raving about the ideas that you guys are coming up with together and how fast things are being implemented and like, we had this, we threw this out, we're scaling this. just the rapid experimentation is just, it's super exciting to me.
Jen (32:35.382)
It's the name of the game. That's the name of the game nowadays. So we gotta be there.
Alex McEachern (32:41.624)
All right, Jen, before I let you go, anywhere where people can follow along with you, like LinkedIn, Twitter, any place where they can kind of keep tabs with what you're doing.
Jen (32:49.134)
yeah, I mean, I'm on LinkedIn, Jen Johnson, Latuweep. That's my, my full name, my married name. but you can, we just started a union brands Instagram. We really haven't done anything on it because we are too busy doing work for our clients. but we probably will start at some point soon, but anyone could just, you know, message me if they have questions or want to chat about projects, you know.
I'm happy to share whatever I know.
Alex McEachern (33:20.342)
Amazing. Well, Jen, thank you so much for joining. Really appreciate you having you on the show.
Jen (33:23.832)
All right. Thanks so much, Alex.
Alex McEachern (33:30.42)
and