Job's Journey: From Questioning to Humility

Show Notes

Episode 448: 
In this episode, Jeff and Chris continue their dive as into the book of Job. They discuss God's response to Job's questions, highlighting the importance of recognizing God's sovereignty and wisdom. The conversation also touches on the relationship between God and Satan, shedding light on the deeper motives behind their interactions. Discover how Job's trials ultimately lead to his refinement and growth in character.

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You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun in practical ways. Well, hey, welcome to the Bible Guys. I'm Chris and I'm Jeff. There it is, and we're the Bible Guys. Here we are, and today we are starting out with oh, it's a Babylon b Did you know that we didn't even look at this up? Yes, we know. Today's a TV show draft list? Did I skip? Oh? I skipped? Oh? Yeah, yes, okay, so today is our TV show draft list. For today's draft list, let's imagine what it would be like to be on a TV show, whether it's competition show, sitcom, Reality TV, or any other show. Your rock, paper scissors to see who gets the first pick, go back and forth until you've reached four shows. We're imagining what it would be like. So are we just like picking our favorite TV shows that we would want to be on? Like? In other words? I think I think what she's saying is my brother wanted to actually submit ourselves to the what is it called the Amazing race. Yeah, so my brother called and said, would your church let you be gone for this amount of time? If we submitted ourselves to the Amazing Grace. I think my brother actually wanted to be on The Amazing Race and he thought it'd be great. I think that's what it's saying. Yeah, I think like, what shows would we like to be on? Okay, what shows would we like to be on? Okay, all right, you are paper? Ye ready? It's one two three, shoot one three, shoot one two three, shoot one two three, shoot one two three shoot? I gotcha? Okay, if you got me with we both did scissors, we both did rock. You did scissors, I did paper, yes, okay for those that were listening, So today, uh for four each? Okay, my first one is a no brainer. I'm gonna choose The Graham Norton Show, which is a talk show. Yes, and I would like to be on the show, but actually I would like to do the hosting of the show. So so you know, it's just wouldn't be the Chris star Boss show. Why would you be hosting Graham Norton's show. Well, if it's still isn't it still Dick Clark's News Eve even though he's dead? Is it really? Yes? It is? And Ryan Seacrest hosts it. Okay, So he's legendary. Well that just means that he probably copyrighted it and his family owns the right store. That's probably what it means. But anyway, the point is is that because every other person has like one guest at the time and and you know there's a you know, celebrity factor there, and then when they're done with that guest, they move over, then they just talk to the new guest. Well, Graham Marton doesn't do that. He was like the whole group four, group four four or five huge stars out and just has them interact with each other, which is which is way better. So I'd like to do that's my first one. So you want to be you want to be hosting the Graham Norton? I think not the Chris star Boss Show. No, No, not not at all. You know why because I want to do it for a couple of episodes. Oh, you want to be a guest host? You want to be a guest host. That's Graham Norton. That's what that makes more sense to me. So, believe or not, you already said it. But of all the TV shows, I would do The Amazing Race. Yeah, I'm sure that's that'd be my favorite. That's one of my favorite shows. Yeah, just traveling around the world and figuring a race like that. Yeah, everything's a problem, it's fun. Yeah, all right, another reality TV show? Goodness gracious? Uh is it reality? Yeah? Well it says reality or sitcom or any other show. Okay, how about this one? I would like to do. Jesus is hard actually, I know, Okay, how about Uh? So I've been watching Blacklist, okay, and Blacklist is very captivating for me, and so I'm going to say Blacklist A and b Reddington in that show, is that you're just going to be a bad guy that you know, I can't decide whether everybody needs I can't decide whether I want to be reading to or whether I want to be like, you know, uh, wrestler agent wrestler. But either way though, you know, it's it's it's involved in things that are you know, the whole world sleeps under the blanket of your protection, right, and you're walking around just making things happen. So I like that. I like that concept. So I'm gonna pick Blacklist. Okay, I would choose the A team Wow. Wow, just just just swooping in and just shooting things. I love it. When a plane comes together. Yeah, loving when a plank comes together. But you're going you're going deep on that one. I love that one. Okay, how about this one? I would love Parenthood? Really is that a TV show? Yeah? It was, yeah, yeah, so it's gone now, but but yeah, I mean it does say, you know, competition shows, sitcom, Reality TV or any other show that's correct. Parenthood. I liked the idea that even though it was you know, everybody had their own drama on dynamics, the family coming together, they loved each other. It was always a moral at the end that was positive. It was actually super super positive and family got each other through all their stuff. Okay, good. Uh. I would do Josh Gates's Expedition Unknown. What does that even? Josh Gates is the host of a show called show on Discovery Channel called Expedition Unknown, and he just uh investigates legends. It's kind of neat. Huh. That's awesome, Okay. And then my fourth for fourth, he wished me happy Birthday on my fiftieth birthday. Oh that's cool. So for my fourth one, I don't know the name of the show, and my family is gonna get really mad at me for not knowing the name, but it's the Crocodile Hunters kids. Oh yeah, right, So they have a show where they go through and they do the zoo and they're zoo keepers, right, and they just they just you know, teach people about the animals and the zoo. And I love that. I think I would love to do it for a time, right, and then then come back to the Yeah, I think i'd like it. Okay, So man, I'm having a hard time with my fourth one. Yeah, it was tough, tough. So uh as a kid. Let me see if I do a kid one, I would say probably night Rider. Wow, yeah, that's going back away, buddy. Yeah, well eighteen and night Rider like the same time. Weren't they pretty close? Yeah? I think I didn't say with Duke sa hazard I think right, Duke's Hazards. The night Rider is definitely a fun concept back in the day, a talking car, talking car. I know it was ahead of its time. Yeah, no doubt that. He had amazing hair back then. It's called it's the Irwins. That's what it's called. It's the Irwins. So there you go, Liz. You can't yell at me now, Well, there you go. I got it. Okay, that was interesting, right, there was a little little insight into our world. You know the other one I almost said, which one was Get Smart? Oh? Get Smart? Wow? Back in the day. Yeah, yeah, I love to Get Smart too, the original, the original Get Smart, well, the remake with Steve Kraus phenomena. It was funny, but it wasn't a TV show, correct correct? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. During the rock Johnson, although I really do feel like most of my life is more like the Beverly Hillbillies. So anyway, that's just a bumpkin trying to figure out life. That's that's most of my life. That's great. Well, hey, we are coming pretty close to the end. Here are we done with Job? No? Were the last episode and so here we come where up to this point? Now his three buddies challenged Job, right, and then Job defends himself. We didn't deal with any of the any of the defense. But Job is saying, listen, I've never stolen anything from orphans, raised my hand against them. I only do good. I don't lie, I don't lust after women. I don't take what's not mine. He goes on down to this whole list, the whole chapter of him saying I'm a pretty good guy and I'm gonna stand with a clear conscience. Then Elihu, who's a younger guy, comes to Job and says, I feel like you're arrogant. You're bragging a lot. And then he kind of lays out, you know, God is going to be God is a god of justice and a lie who really spills this out, and that God is incredibly powerful. So all of these things, and then finally God speaks up. Okay, these people bust in his tops too long. So God speaks up, and this is the Lord's challenge to Job. And so instead of answering Job's questions directly, God asks Job a series of questions that no human could really answer. And so it's a very very interesting way of God engaging. And by the way, that's sort of the way that Jesus did right. A lot of times they would ask him a question. He'd say, well, you can answer me this, and then they say I can't answer that. He said, then I want to tell you the answer to my question. Right. So this idea of asking questions and probing an idea is the best way to learn to discover. If you discover a thing, you will remember it forever. If it's told you, you'll forget ninety five percent of it in three days. Right, we already know that. And so this is why God does that so often, is if he'll lead you to discover a thing, to think a thought, and then he'll affirm it. And that's what he's doing with Job here. So eventually Job just responds by saying, God's ways our best. So here we go. Then the Lord answered Job from a whirlwind. That's kind of a cool. Yeah, don't even know what that means. I think he's in a tornado. Sounds like it. Yeah, so it sounds like h And God speaks out of this whirlwind and says, who is this that questions my wisdom with such ignorant words? Brace yourself like a man. It's time to put on your big boy pants. That's what he's saying, right, yep, brace yourself like a man, because I have some questions for you, and you must answer them. Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, if you know so much, who determined its dementia and stretched out the surveying line, what supports its foundations, and who laid its cornerstone as the morning stars sang together, and all the angels shouted for Joy, who kept the sea inside its boundaries as it burst from the womb, And as I clothed it with clouds and wrapped it in thick darkness. For I locked it behind barred gates, limiting its shores. I said, this far and no further will you come here? Your proud waves must stop. Have you ever commanded the morning to appear and cause the dawn to rise in the east? Have you made daylight spread to the ends of the earth to bring an end to the night's wickedness? As the light approaches, the earth takes shape like a clay pressed beneath the seal. It has robed in brilliant colors. The light disturbs the wicked and stops the arm that is raised in violence. Have you explored the springs from which the seas came? Have you explored their depths? Do you know where the gates of death are located? Have you seen the gates of utter gloom? Do you realize the extent of the earth? Tell me about it. If you know where does light come from and where does darkness go? Can you take each each to its home? Do you know how to get there. But of course you know all this, for you were born before it was all created, and you're so very experienced. God sarcasm is a little biting. There is a little bit, he says. Have you visited the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of hail? I reserved them as weapons for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war. Where's the path to the source of light? Where's the home of the east wind? Who created a channel for the torrents of rain? Who laid out the path for the lightning? Who makes the rain fall on bare and land in the desert where no one lives, Who sends rain to satisfy the parts ground and make the tender grass spring up? Does the rain have a father who gives birth to the dew? Who's the mother of the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens? For the water turns to ice as hard as rock, and the surface of the water freezes. Can you direct the movement of the stars, binding the clusters of pleiades, or loosening the cords of Orion? Can you direct the sequence of the seasons, or guide the bear with her cubs across the heavens. Do you know the laws of the universe? Can you use them to regulate the earth? Can you shout to the clouds and make it rain? Can you make a life heightening appear and cause it to strike as you direct? Who gives intuition to the heart and instinct to the mind. Who's wise enough to count all the clouds? Who can tilt the water jars of heaven when the parts ground is dry and the soil is hardened into clouds? Can you stalk prey for a lioness and satisfy the young lion's appetites as they lie in their dens or crouch in the thicket? Who provides food for the ravens when they're young? Cry out to God and wander about in hunger? I wasn't supposed to read those last ones, But no, that's okay, because I mean, it's sort of more of the same, right, But God is you know, basically going on? In fact, I read a note here in the Life of a It's a heck of a note. It is awesome, it says out of the whirl. When God spoke, Surprisingly, he didn't answer any of Job's questions Job's questions, because Job's questions were not at the heart of the issue. Instead, God used Job's ignorance of the earth's natural order to reveal his ignorance about God's moral order. If Job did not understand the workings of God's physical creation, how could he possibly understands God's mind and character. There is no standard or higher than God himself by which to judge. God himself is the standard. Our only option is to submit to the authority and rest in his care. What a great note here. You know, God used his ignorance of the physical moral or physical order to reveal the fact that he could not understand God's moral order. And she whiz. You know, if God approaches you and says, hey, breaks yourself like a man because you're gonna have to answer these And then he asks you a series of questions that you couldn't possibly understand well, And he goes through the same So answer if we went into chapter thirty nine, So he shifts out of natural stuff, clouds, rain, the earth, the depths of the sea, creation. Then he gets into animals. He starts talking about the goats and the donkey. Who gives a wild donkey its freedom? Who gives who watches the deer when they're born in the wild? How do you keep producing goats? And all that kind of stuff. He talks about ostriches and their wisdom. He talks about the horse's strength, and are you the one that gave the horses strength? Who made the hawk soar above the earth? Right? All these things, and then he ends it in verse two of chapter forty. You still want to argue with the almighty. You're God's critic, but do you have the answers? He's like, Dude, these are the simplest things I do. Right. This is like we're not even talking about the advanced concepts of God. I'm saying donkeys. You can't even tell me why donkeys are almost impossible to break and why they run free? I can't. You can't. You can't tell me where the water comes from in the oceans. I can you can't? You right, That's what he's doing. He's asking him just simple things about nature. Everything he mentions to job, Job has probably seen, so these are things he saw. And he goes, Dude, you know nothing about the things you can't see, because you know very little about what you can see. That's what he's doing right, and it just I think it's important for us to remember that we can't see very much and we can't see very far right, right, yeah, and God is beyond that. Then God goes on, and then he starts talking about bigger stuff, right, he just goes He starts talking about Leviathan here, the whole dinosaur stories, all that kind of stuff. He really gets into. Now, let's talk about those things that are beyond powerful, these things that you have power that you cannot comprehend. And you know, tomorrow we'll talk about how Job finally humbly responds, you're right, yeah, And and you know what that doesn't That doesn't satisfy Job's direct questions, because all it does is that it forces you to stop asking why and then lean into the whoo who God is right? And what he's really saying is is he's saying, I'm the Lord. Let me even remind you just who it is you're praying to. I'll never forget when I did a study on Jesus teaching his disciples how to pray. Probably out of that whole study, the thing that I latched onto the most was the fact that when Jesus modeled for us a prayer, and he said, our Father, who art in heaven, how it would be that name? That? How it means great is your name? And I remember just learning the fact. Like, first of all, sorry, I'm opening up a can of worms, but like I believe that that's not necessarily a prayer to be memorized and repeated. Although that's not a bad thing, it's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing to memoriz that not that wasn't the point of the prayer. Yeah, the point of the prayer was this was the building blocks of a prayer, a model. And the reason why we know that is because Jesus said it differently in both gospels. Right. If it was a formulated prayer exactly, then like Jesus, you messed up, don't you know? The Lord's prayer it appears, according to the gospels appears maybe he taught it multiple times, yes, right, and he doesn't say it exactly the same in both gods. Right, But anyway, but how would be your name? It's the idea that like, let's start by recognizing who God is. And that's exactly the point of Job thirty eight and thirty nine. God's inviting him to go, really, you're going to challenge me on this? Yeah, and so and so it really is relevant. This translates to us on a daily basis because most of the time when we go to God, isn't it true? We go to God and we get right to our wishes and our wants in our list and we say, God, you know, thanks for this day. Boom, here's my list. And what you know Jesus is modeling for us is he's saying, start with the fact that you want to recognize just who it is your praying to. You know, great is your name, you know you are hallowed, you are revered. Didn't Job say? The fear of the Lord is the being you all wisdom? So start there, and if you just take a moment to rest in recognizing just who it as you're praying to, maybe by the time you get to your needs and your wants and your wishes they'll be concerning to you because now you're just recognizing, Hey, I'm in communion with you know, the God who is And so, yeah, I love that idea. And that's really essentially what God is saying to Jobs. He's inviting Job to think about the fact that he doesn't know very much, right, right, And I think it takes a lot of humility. I was just again looking into some of the writings of some of the They used to be kind of the young, angry, intelligent atheists a few years ago, you know, Richard Dawkins and some of those guys, right that they kind of clustered together, and they were so confident and they were witty. They had some really interesting arguments against the idea of a creator. But it's interesting the older we get, you know, recently, and I'm not gonna say their names, but recently one of those guys began to back away from some of those really strong statements. He used to make. A friend of his became a Christian, which was a surprise, and then he said this last month, he said, you know, I think, and he used to be anti Christians are the problem in everything. And he's kind of shifted and said, you know, maybe if I don't believe in a God yet, I don't think that. But he called himself a cultural Christian. He said, you know, almost everything good that's happened in the world, you know, schools, hospitals, the idea of the autonomy of a human, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, you know, the idea to freedom to own property, all these things, these are basic Judeo Christian ethical things, and so the contribution. So he began to shift and there was a statement there, Hey, we don't know everything, and I thought, oh, there you go. That's that's the beginning of wisdom. Is when I realized I don't know everything. I can't see very far and I can't see very much. And this is what God is telling job is he dial it back here, buddy, right, I understand you're frustrated, but where were you when I did all these things? I have my own ways, and here's challenge. Also in the Life Application Study Bible, on that next page, the bottom of the page you have there, it kind of spells out our problem is we measure measure God by some artificial law of fairness right, and God's outside of that law, and we measure him based on what we think is right and fair. And is God good in my definition of what is fair? And we've talked about that before, but fairness doesn't really exist in life. And so instead the correct view of God is that God is just. He's the standard by which everything else is measured by. And this is what he's reminding job is, Dude, if you don't understand how the world works, and if you don't understand how animals work, and you don't understand how creation worked, you certainly can't comprehend my moral code. Right, you cannot comprehend it. But God is the standard, not my sense of some fake sense of fairness. Yeah. And when I when I saw this little graph here, that's why we love the Life Application Study Bible because it really lays it out. But the graph I love how the view the actual when you're looking at it, because it sort of shows in the first block block that the law of fairness is sort of the bar and the God's underneath it, as if what we're saying measured by to be measured by it. And then the next graph shows God is the bar, and then and then underneath it is justice. Well, God is all right, and then justice is inside of God right, which is a totally different different mindset than fairness being opposite from God, we measure him by it, but rather we we uh measure justice by God right, and so we God by fairness right. We try to figure out justice and and and what we do is we just like Joe we try to figure out justice and we bring it back to who God is that's right right, and so as opposed to the previous graphere, we're trying to work out God right because because the bar is law of fairness, and so what we're doing is we're working out who God. You know. In fact, I think this is an appropriate time to do this, or maybe I could do it for the next I'll do it for this one, eh, real quick. I got a text yesterday by somebody who was actually talking about this. So here's what they texted me yesterday. They said, good morning, Chris. We're so listening to the Bible guys and enjoying out about Job. Blah blah blah blah blah. Okay, My problem with the book is this. I wish the conversation between Satan and God was not included. Why because it leaves me with some confusion about the relationship between God and Satan. It almost feels like a chess game on humanity. I feel horribly guilty for even saying this. This person says God doesn't have to prove anything to Satan, and in real time he really hurt Job and his wife, and we read it thousands of years later, but imagine in real time. It feels like a sparring match almost, And it makes me wonder about the spiritual realm. And it's a little confusing for me. I feel guilty for talking like this. So twice, this is what this person says, but God says, come and reason with me. So I am why would he talk to Satan and take the challenge when he already knew everything that was going to happen and happen in the pain inflicted to job? And I also think that God is nothing but love, so so pure that it can't even imagine. So he's saying, you know, this person is saying all these things. So I wrote back and I said, I think you were right on, right on the money with your conclusion, because she actually had a conclusion about God is God? Right, I said, the only other part that I think may come into play, and this is a brand new thought, okay, I said, the only thing I think could come into play is God's in his sovereignty. He seems to have a lot of things happen to his people to demonstrate his promises and his love to those who come later. So in order for the Bible to inspire billions of people. You have to have humans go through human trials and to face all human conditions and then respond to God in order for humans to really identify with it. And even though I don't know why, I do believe that God has done this with the children of Israel often. For example, he allowed them to suffer in slavery for nearly four hundred years. He allowed Joseph to be in the dungeon. I sometimes think those early people paid the price so that God could demonstrate his love and example to humans and record their responses. And He seems to have certain selected people whom he knew he could trust to set the best example for us. The reward in heaven must be some of the highest, for many of them have made the Hall of faith in Hebrews chapter eleven. These were gods chosen, These were gods chosen to set the bar for us. That's what I believe. So therefore, if that were true, for instance, then the conversation in heaven with God and Satan has a completely different motive and intent that is not apparent. Well, it seems like it's a chess game in the verbiage, it's really God setting the stage for you, and for me and for billions of others. Yeah, yeah, I think through this whole thing he proves that Satan was wrong. Satan, your way of your view of all of this is completely wrong. I also see too. You know, we think that the goal of life is to be as comfortable as possible, right, And God's goal for life is not my comfort, it's my character. And Job recognized that. And the verse we referenced was it yesterday where he said, when I go through the fire, then I'll come forth as gold. Right, when I'm tried and purified, then I'll come forth as gold. And so there are some things in our life that we can never get there without lifting up the heavyweight. Right. I was just mentioning my shoulders are sort because I've been doing the you know, I worked out this morning. It was all shoulders today. Well, my shoulders can't get stronger without carrying the heavyweight. Right. What I want is to just be comfortable all the time and then have strong shoulders. He can't do both, right, And Job was such a godly man, such a good man. He got the devil's attention, and so God said, you're wrong, devil. You see everything the wrong way, I can prove it, and I'm going to make Job a better man because of it. So he was making Job a better man. We see, Oh he lost animals and he lost a wife and his riches, and God is saying, I'm making him into a better man. The version of Job after this versus the version of Job before. He was already pretty good. But he's gonna come out as pure gold too. And so if we can understand that God allows things in our life so we can become more like Jesus. Right, God's goal isn't these seventy years or one hundred years on this earth. God's goal is eternity, and he's refining us from here all the way to there. That's what he's doing. And so if we're supposed to be like Jesus, Jesus suffered too, right, and it went through that. So we just have to see it that way. Now, tomorrow here's the cliffhanger. Tomorrow, Job has the right answer, and I think it'll answer some of what that question was yesterday. Yeah, because Job finally acknowledges it. That's right, all right, Well, hopefully we will see you then on the Bible. Guys,