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In The Teacher Burnout Podcast, we will explore these challenges and offer practical strategies and tips to help teachers overcome burnout and rediscover their passion for education.
Whether you are a classroom teacher, school administrator, or education student, this podcast is for you. Join us as we explore the complex issue of teacher burnout and help you find practical solutions to support your well-being and reignite your passion for education. Subscribe now to The Teacher Burnout Podcast and start your journey towards a happier and more fulfilling career in education.
Episode #52
[00:00:00] In today's episode, I'm speaking with Nikki , who's a 32 year veteran teacher, and she's talking about her experiences and ways that she's helped mitigate burnout over the years. And manage stress. I hope that you find our conversation helpful and get some tips and strategies. That's all coming up next, right here on the teacher burnout podcast.
Stay tuned.
Are you feeling overwhelmed or do you struggle setting boundaries? If so, I have the solution for you. My new course, the Teacher Overwhelm and Boundary Solution will help you conquer, overwhelm, and establish boundaries, helping you steer clear of burnout. So transform your approach to stress management and boundary setting today.
Click the link in my show notes to access the course.
Welcome to the Teacher Burnout Podcast, where we explore the challenges of burnout for teachers and share practical strategies to support teacher well being. I'm your host, Barb Flowers. If you're a teacher looking for ways to prevent burnout or an educational leader searching for [00:01:00] strategies to support your team, this podcast is for you.
Let's dive in.
I'm really excited to be here today with Nikki Talicki. She is a teacher who is going to be talking about her experiences and just what she's done to alleviate burnout and, , how she has enjoyed her career in education. . So Nikki, if you just want to tell us about yourself and, you know, where you are in your teaching profession and your experiences.
Absolutely. So I am in my 32nd year of teaching and I teach in a public school in Arizona. It's a STEM school, award winning and open enrollment only. So I guess you'd call it like a private school. It's not, it's public. Our students ride the bus for an hour, both ways to school if they take the bus.
Parent pickup line is 250 deep, , and it's a specialized school where we take the [00:02:00] curriculum in the Arizona State Standards and we don't do this or that. We do this and that. Nice. So that's probably a lot, a lot that you're trying to get in there. Yes. And what grade levels is the school? So this school goes pre K to five.
And then because of the extraordinary teachers there, our math goes all the way to eighth grade, even though they only, the kids are in fifth grade. So we have students in sixth, seventh and eighth grade math levels. Wow, that's amazing. And what do you teach there? I teach whatever's needed. So in the past, we've been open eight years now, and I helped open the school and I've switched grades and done combinations through COVID and whatnot.
So I think I've done seven grade switches, three, four, and five. Now I'm doing fifth grade and I'm teaching the middle school math. I've been teaching the middle school math since we opened. Has that been your primary district your whole career or where have you been in other districts and grade levels?[00:03:00]
So I started when I was in college. I needed a job. I couldn't do it alone. I paid for my own schooling and I'm number five with six kids. So in college, I worked at a little school called Satori there was no such thing as charter or any of that. It was a mom who opened a school for gifted children because her children's needs weren't being met.
And it was like preschool, the first grade. And I worked there for my five years of college, took five years cause I worked. And I learned about gifted children in a way I never knew. And that was kind of what sparked my career and sparked. My rolling of just a love and a passion and I thanked Suzanne so much for that experience because it was in a little house I would ride my bike there and from there I moved to , just a regular I I sent out like 60 applications and I only got three interviews And got all three jobs.
So I I think i'm answering your [00:04:00] question, but like where did I get started? So I started in college None of those years counted toward my degree or anything like they didn't even count my hours because it wasn't a certified school. I would say that in my full career, I've learned the most now opening a new school that's specialized and then working in a school that was also specialized, it's, it just requires a different part of your brain because you've got You might not think like that, but they do.
So you have to change the way you think it's definitely helped with burnout to move. So I've been in, in the same school district since 1992. I love that. I mean, you've been in education for 32 years. That's a long time. I mean, I've been in for 14 years. I can't even imagine year 32.
So I love that advice to move around and learn different things as a way to alleviate some of that burnout or, you know, just change it up. [00:05:00] Have you ever encountered moments of high stress or even gone through periods of burnout in your 32 year career? Yes. So for about five years, I, for a really long time, 19, I had a principal who just didn't see me and just thought I could do whatever.
And this principal put me in a position where I was teaching a, , so it was a class. I want to say 22 kids and 16 had special needs and this was not my forte. I did identify that out of the 16, so I had, I think seven kids that weren't special needs and it was inclusion. It was full inclusion. There were two teachers in there and I was responsible for planning and teaching the math and the science in this group.
And then the other teacher would help with the special needs students. But I'll be honest, I threw up for five years straight. [00:06:00] Like, I just, I felt like I wasn't enough. I felt like I couldn't do this. And I talked to my administrator and just tell him, I really don't think this is my forte. Like I'm struggling.
And he's like, Oh, you're doing great. The scores are coming up, you know? And, and my teacher partner, she would, we would talk and debrief. And it was just so much for me. And it got to the point where one day this one kid couldn't get it. And I just gave them the answers. And she said to me, she goes, you know, we just gave him the answers.
And that was when I realized, I don't know what I'm doing. This is not my thing. I tried really hard to learn more about teaching students who have special needs. And I understood that, you know, these kids that get it in three tries and my background is all gifted. Other students need like 120 to 400 examples and it was challenging.
I'm glad I did it because I learned a lot from it, but. It was a point where, I mean, it could have broken me. So getting out of that, I stayed at the same school [00:07:00] and moved to, just a regular classroom that helped a lot.
I would say the best thing that came out of it is I learned to look for different things when identifying students needs, both in the school. Well, it's all special education, but in the gifted world and to help them like with speech and OT, I learned a lot more there than I would have in any class, but
it was a breaking point for me. And I like that you identify what your forte is because, you know, working with teachers, I, I used to think, Oh, they just want gifted kids. That's so easy. And then after working with gifted and now in my role as a principal, it's just a whole different. Need and a different type of student than a struggling student.
They still have their own set of issues and things that they need support with. And I think sometimes that there is that misconception. And I know I had that, that it's easier, it's different because they do get it quicker. But it does take a certain personality to really [00:08:00] work well with gifted kids and understand where they're coming from.
And so I think if you have that and knowing that that's a great quality to have and being in a place. where you feel like you're successful. That's where a lot of burnout comes from. You just don't even feel like you're making a difference and you don't feel successful in your role.
It's really hard to, and other people don't see that, but you know, that like you have that feeling. Yes. Absolutely., so a common challenge that a lot of teachers face, is dealing with overwhelm. So how do you manage or approach those feelings when you're starting to feel overwhelmed?
Like you have so much on your plate and so many different things to do. That's every day. , I think number one for any teacher that's overwhelmed, new, old. Think about why you're there because we're there for the children and we're there to shape and change their lives. I mean, if your report cards are due at five o'clock and you have children in the classroom, the children are going to leave [00:09:00] 30, whenever the school day ends, give those kids everything you've got.
Put the report card aside and give the students what they need because building those relationships is so much more than a report card. What I do to handle this is I take a piece of paper. I have sticky notes everywhere. I'll be honest, and I ask and I make lists of things that are in my head that are getting in the way of my success as an educator.
And I just keep that list going. And if the students tell me I need this, like by tomorrow, can you print this for me? I'll put it down on my sheet so they know that I heard them, but I'll spend the time with education and in the particular school I'm in now at STEM. So students are building things.
They're cutting, they have razor blade knives. I really have to pay attention to what's going on. The engagement is higher. And I think that has helped me quite a bit. And I mean, you have to build that, but I think. The best way to stay [00:10:00] underwhelmed is to work on relationships with your students and families, because then you don't have that on top when the school day ends, limit yourself, say, okay, I've got 10 minutes.
I've got a list of 50 things. I'm not going to finish them and prioritize. What do I need to do today? What can be done tomorrow? And so, you know, I've never finished my list ever and it's okay. And to let that go, I mean, my report cards had to be priority. They were printed. It's 7 a. m. I had to finish. I might have had to get up at 4, but you know, they're done.
AI, great report card comments. Chat GPT is awesome. You just have to make sure you edit them after. Yeah, that's a good tip. , and I love the idea of the post its because I think that is what causes me so much overwhelm when I'm holding all these thoughts in my brain and trying to keep it all in there.
So I love the idea that you just write it all on a post it and have it stuck to your desk because then you can go back to it. Because I think when we think I'll go back to this [00:11:00] later or I'll think about this later, that's what causes so much overwhelm. Yes. And throwing that post it away after you do it, that's really rewarding.
Mm hmm. Yeah. Like crossing something off your list. So from your perspective in your years of education, what are the key factors that you think contribute to teacher stress or burnout and how do they impact daily teaching life? So I think teacher stress and burnout factors change as you go through your career because when you know more, you want to do more.
So in the beginning, I mean, when I first started, my stress was meeting with parents and families because I was a 20 year old and their kids were 11 and 12, so I was barely older than their own children. So my stress was communicating with parents and I had a language barrier in the first school and I really worked hard to speak Spanish enough to understand them.
I couldn't. Speak well back, but that was the beginning stress and then fast forward to when [00:12:00] I had my own children And and I got married and I got married first and had my own children There was that family stress like how do you separate your job? From your family and you really have to put your family first because your job It's going to go away and they'll hire somebody new.
You are replaceable, but in your family, you're not. At that stage of my life, I had to stop staying at work until 10 PM. Not kidding. I did that. I didn't have a family, anything I needed to do. And I had to change the way that I did things. And at that point, it was interesting because the issues I had.
With speaking to families now that I had a family I understood and I didn't have those issues anymore So you grow through what you go through and you know the next stage of life I taught middle school while my children were in middle school and I was teaching middle school going home to middle school.
I was a nut I talked to my principal like I can't do this These kids are just it's too much and I [00:13:00] moved to elementary school and that really was key you have to talk to somebody You And I think having a teammate who's great. I have one who I've had my whole career and and now at this point, my Children are done with college.
They have Children. , I think it's hard to be the old teacher at the school. It's very difficult. So it's like different stressors and you have to really think about like where people are and I have that awareness. Now, I understand that the young teachers that are just having kids, they need to go home and I'll take on that committee that's after school.
Because I can, and I want them to be with their family. And realizing that has helped me with those stressors,, I think the biggest thing now as an old teacher is being an old teacher. I can't relate as well to my peers and I do things and I think I tick them off. Because I just have my little sticky notes and I do my thing and then I'm done.
So building relationships with staff at this point is more [00:14:00] difficult. I mean, I'm even older than the principal. That's a very interesting point that I wouldn't have thought about every point in your career, there is some sort of stress or no matter how much experience that you have in different.
I have always so interested by different seasons of life. And like you said, Obviously, when you're a new teacher and you don't have a family, you can put in time and that's okay. But then once you have kids, then you have to learn how to set those boundaries for yourself. And then you kind of have more time again, once your kids are grown up and don't need you as much.
Lots of different, interesting perspective there with just seasons of life. Yeah. And go through what you've grown through. I love Maya Angelou's when you know better, you do better. Yeah. And I love all of that. Grow through what you go through.
. Okay. It's okay to make a mistake, but I think all the time you have to remember you're there for those kids. I became a gifted educator, like I [00:15:00] said, way back when, and I worked at this little school for gifted kids. These three year olds were suicidal and they were putting pressure on themselves.
Like, I can't tie my shoe yet. And I'm like, it's okay. You don't have to tie your shoe yet. I can tie your shoe for you. But I watched that and I developed this passion, like I said, for gifted children. And I don't want to be a gifted teacher. I'm gifted certified, but I teach at clusters and whatnot. And I understand so much more of what they're going through because they put, you know, I think about what you're saying about teacher stress, a teacher gets to be perfectionistic and you want to be like this Pinterest teacher.
You don't need to be. Yeah. I just want your attention. They want to know, I mean fist bump them when they come in the room, because if they know you care about them, you're going to do great. And at the end of the day, it's how you make them feel, not what they learn. They're not going to remember which colony disappeared, but they're going to remember how they felt.
. I love that. Cause when I think back to all the teachers I [00:16:00] had, I can't think of anything we did, but I can remember the fun things or the way that, you know, they created this thing classroom culture that was really positive, that I enjoyed being there, so I do. I think that's so important.
And you brought up something that I would love to know more about, based on just your 32 year career in education, the idea of Pinterest and social media. How have you seen that change stress levels and how people even view what they're supposed to do as a teacher? And so I started without a computer.
So, you know, when I started teaching there, I mean, we had a word processor and that's it taught through the internet and whatnot. The best line I can tell you is, , and a teacher said this to me, what are you going to do today to make us all look bad? And I feel like that's what social media does. Like, what are you going to show me today?
That makes me feel like I'm worse than like, don't let it let [00:17:00] that go. Like the little, let it go song. Because you got to be you, you can get ideas from social media. You can be like, Oh, that's really neat. I want to do it, do it your own way. You don't need to be better than anybody. I always tell my students, you know, you don't have to be the best in the world.
You have to be the best. for the world. When we look at social media, it's going to influence us. It's, I mean, we look, if you're raising a teenager, you can really see that. And I use social media because that's how my parents communicate. I mean, I've already taught students that I also had their parent, but they use social media.
So you have to communicate the way they communicate. So I'm using it. And I see things , I really like, I see people online and I'm like, wow, like, oh, I, if I had like a, a little, I forget what they're called, the little shops on Tucson, on Teachers Values Teachers. And then I open up these old Ames books and it's the same stuff.
Yeah. [00:18:00] And it's illegal, it's copyrighted. We don't have to be like, you, you do not, you just need to be your best. When you know better, you do better. And teachers who are really struggling with that, put it away, just close it up, try it for a day, a week. And that's a lot to ask because I know that it's buzzing constantly.
I think that was one of the things I struggled with the most when I was in the classroom was just this constant comparison game of even when I was doing great things, I couldn't acknowledge that I was doing great things because I was so focused on what other people were doing better that I just, I couldn't see the good.
And so I think that that's, that's, that's You know, an important thing that we don't have to make it as complicated as it is with social media, but, , just focusing on the things that we're doing well and being the best teacher you can be for your students. So I love that, right?
And when you don't know, admit it. Like, I don't know how to do [00:19:00] that. Show me. I think, you know, one of my years I had an administrator who was leaving. Actually, it happened twice. One administrator was , leaving, and I had him for about three months. He was like an intern. And I remember this kid brought him a peanut butter sandwich out on the playground.
It was full of sand and whatnot. And the kid's like, Oh, mister, I brought this for you. I saved it for my lunch. And this guy took a bite of it. And I was like, roast out. And he looked at me and he goes, that kid. didn't eat so I could and I just need to show him it's the best. And I learned a lot there. The other administrator I had that I learned quite a bit from, I only had him for one year and he was leaving.
He is the first and only administrator I had who didn't befriend certain people in the school. Like he didn't have favorites. All of us were equals, and he really was mindful of that. Like, if he spent five minutes in my classroom, it was almost like he kept a list of how long he was in each classroom.
And he would come [00:20:00] and read, like, he'd go to the restroom, it's your turn, you get a break, and just, and I'm like, but I'm teaching. He's like, no, you're taking a break, I'm going to come in and I'm going to read. And he was very mindful of, The teachers that, that he worked with and not to pick a favorite, but to recognize strengths and weaknesses and help us in ways we didn't even know we needed.
And that's pretty extraordinary. And I think that helped with that feeling where I have to be the best because he felt like we were our best. Yeah, I think that's a really good point too, when you have administrators who really value their teachers. and see that I can definitely see how that impacts, you know, your own feelings of your teaching.
I had a principal like that who he thought the world of all the staff, you know, and his staff was the best and he supported us and everything we did. Could you share any specific strategies that you might use for managing stress and [00:21:00] just maintaining your wellbeing when teaching gets crazy and it's overwhelming?
Absolutely. Put yourself first, because if you're not good, then nobody is. And I mean, I have an awesome supportive spouse. Every morning we get up at, I don't know, 4. 30 in the morning and we go for a walk. We don't talk to each other at all. He's not a morning person and I am in our heads and listen to a story as we walk and we go for about an hour.
And that is number one. I'm in a Peloton teacher group and I ride a Peloton bike and. I think that the first thing you have to do to avoid that stress , and help is, is work on yourself because if you're not good, then that's the end. So number one, exercise, because if you don't move your body, it doesn't connect with your brain. I mean, really move. And, and I'd start with that. And then at the end of the day, , it depends on how many students you teach.
[00:22:00] When I taught middle school and I had 120, I don't think I could have done this, but right now I have, let's see, 34 math students and I have 26 students in my class. I can drive home and think of each child and that's where I let them go on the drive home. I think of each student I taught, what did I do for them today?
What do I need to do for them tomorrow? If I miss one, I'll write it on sticky note. When I get home, stick it in my school bag, but let that go. That's where you have to leave it because otherwise you wake up in the middle of the night and you're thinking about it. So I think my best strategies for dealing with just the daily stress, not specific stress, start with yourself, even if it's a walk, it doesn't have to be some ballistic exercise, but exercise.
And then at the end of the day. Debrief with yourself and let it go. Leave it there. Be with your family and friends and whoever you're with after school. I love both of those tips. And I'm a huge advocate for exercise because I do think it helps [00:23:00] so much. And one thing I always tell people, even if you're not a morning person, if you can do it in the morning, it's better because you know, it'll get done.
I'm so tired at the end of the school day that to exercise, it just doesn't happen. , I think those are really great strategies. And my last question for you is what's one piece of advice that you can share with the audience that you wish you would have known earlier in your teaching career? Let me tell you two things that I learned last year in year 31. I learned in, , an in service how to discipline better. My room is really well disciplined, but I learned about this, , , engagement scale and it has five things on it from withdrawing all the way to investing.
And I put that up on my wall. And all I do is point to it and ask the kids, where are you on this learning scale? I wish I had known that then. Another thing I learned, I had a, , professor come in, he came into an in service and he's like, how are you doing? Nobody really said anything. You know, an in service.
And then he said, no, you're going to answer me. And he put a response up on the [00:24:00] board and he said, how are you doing? And it said, I'm awesome and I'm working hard to be my best. And so we're like, I'm awesome. And he had us do it again and again and again, until we really started laughing and doing it. And then he pointed at us.
He goes, tell me something awesome about yourself. And we're like, , I have good friends. That's nice that you have good friends. Now tell me something awesome about you. And he got really specific into like, what was awesome. And then he went around and he asked people what they were doing to work hard to be their best.
And that had a profound impact on me and I started doing it in my classroom, not every day, but just once in a while I was surprised at how it changed everything. I don't know. I wish I would have known then I feel like you learn things along the way that you captivate just don't get lost in, in that crazy, you know, be happy.
Make sure it's a joy and not a job. I think like you're saying, just grab those little nuggets when you learn them. I remember going to PD and like taking so many notes and going back and changing everything in my classroom. But I love how [00:25:00] you're saying you grab those things that work for you and you implement them, piece by piece.
And it doesn't have to be this big thing. I appreciate you being with us here today on the podcast. And I just, I appreciate all of your advice with your experience. It's so great to talk to someone who's still loving education after all these years and has a positive experience because.
I think so often, you know, we hear so much about teacher burnout and teachers having such negative experiences. And I just want to highlight that it's not always like that, depending on what school district you're in, where you're at, , and just even your thoughts about teaching. ,
thank you. And if they're not happy, they should move to some other job. Yeah, I think that's great advice. I don't think there should be any shame around if teaching is not for you to move on to something else. Reach out. Find someone that can help you out. Don't be afraid. Yeah. Well, thank you again, Nikki.
Thank you.
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