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Unbound is a weekly podcast, created to help you achieve more as a leader. Join Chris DuBois as he shares his growth journey and interviews others on their path to becoming unbound. Delivered weekly on Thursdays.
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Every entrepreneur needs a book. Today's guest will help you write one for yourself. Are you a leader trying to get more from your business in life? Me too. So join me as I document the conversations, stories and advice to help you achieve what matters in your life. Welcome to unbound with me, Chris DuBois. Like Alma is the founder of catapult book writing, he specializes in helping business people write books that demonstrate their expertise, and help grow their companies. Mike is also a published author with over 20 books to his name, and we're going to learn more about how we can make that happen for ourselves. Mike, welcome on man. Chris,
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thank you so much for having me. It's been great, just as a couple of moments we've had before the show just yet, so I'm thrilled to be here.
0:46
Yeah, we're gonna get plenty of yakking in the episode, but let's start with with your origin story.
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Oh, well. So my origin story starts with, with what is in Canada considered a major crime, it may not be considered a major crime in the US and that support URI. Because when I was 18 years old, so I'm kind of go back, parents, very rocky, unpleasant house to grow up in kind of fearful, a little bit of stuff there. And, of course, that's not unique at all. And so really, a kid that really didn't have much direction and wasn't really striving at all. And one day, I got a letter from Lambton College in Sarnia and said, Congratulations, you've been accepted in the journalism program from Lambton College. This was 1978. And even in 1978, you had to apply, you know, and I hadn't even said, What's this? And she said, Well, actually, you know, I applied for you. I said, you signed my name, and you sent me. You sent us into the school. She said, Yeah, so I said, Okay, I went, and of course, I went, and I met my wife there. But as I'll call it, my current wife, and, and I went, and I failed, I failed spectacularly, Chris, I had no skin in the game. And then I went out west, and that was gonna, I went to the oil industry pretty well put that entire sector into recession, I was the worst oil exploration guy ever. And at one point, there was gonna be an explosion, long line full of sandbags, and metal basket, you probably know a bit about this, it's coming down. And of course, these things are generally set off, as you probably know, by static electricity. And this long line being suspended by a helicopter down over the treeline. To me to fill in these holes, we were going to blow up, I got there to find there's going to hit dynamite that leaks through the casing. And that was probably going to be the end of it. And, and probably the end of the guy up top of the chopper too. So I grabbed it, and I swung around. And I didn't know I was there. And I knew that I was I could very well be dead. And I gotten settled down. And then just before I started unloading, and I looked up, and there was a long line that extended pretty well to the tree line. And there was a big 50 pound cast iron up there, Chris, and it came loose. And so I sort of stepped back. And it hit me in the middle finger, the little finger knocked off her finger now and ricocheted off my steel toed boots. And that thing I swear to god was still shaking, I'm in the ground. And I said to myself, so we're going to make some changes here. God did not put me on this earth to be screwed around helicopters and dynamite. So I went home. And this time I passed. And I worked all my way through. And then I started working in newspapers and other newspapers. And I wanted to have a great job. I want to cover big league sports in Toronto, where I'm sort of not from but where I worked. And, and I got to do that I got to be a sports columnist at the number one sports speaker in Toronto. So that's my origin story. And it gets after that is hurt, as Les Nessman said, after that, it gets a little weird.
3:59
Right? So what actually drove you to starting kettlebell book writing in
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this approach? Yeah, what I found was that, so I'll just resume the story. So what happened to me is that I got to the top of the mountain and then I just blew it all up. Because what I didn't know is I had bipolar disorder. So people with bipolar disorder, they're often you know, fairly articulate people and with a kind of have a knack for, for writing. And I certainly fit into that category. But so, but I didn't know that the worst thing for someone with bipolar disease, illness, rather condition is to be have that kind of a life we traveled between, you're not getting enough sleep. It's your one hotel or another hotel, you're traveling a lot. Your life is really really in flux. That's not good for people like me. And so I was in I had all the talent for the job, but not the disposition. And so I got arrested I know you're looking at this guy site you You got arrested? Yes, I got arrested. Because I was involved in a confrontation with a guy that I work with no less. And, and so my employer quite rightly said, buddy, we're not going to send you anywhere. We don't know what the hell you're going to do. And they were absolutely right and doing that. And so I stayed. There are several more years. But I never regained that ability to go to all these events because I went to the Super Bowl, and I went to the Olympics, and they went to the World Series, and I went to Stanley Cup final several temperature, but the World Series anyway. And then I went to work for the company that owns the Maple Leafs and raptors. And I worked seven years there and really liked it. And then the guy that hired me moved on. And so eventually, they always get to us, especially since I had the same salary had the newspaper, which is pretty good. And then I said, Where are we going to be? Now I was sort of the accidental entrepreneur. And I went to what's called a business networking international meeting. I don't know if you've ever been in one of those, Chris. And I met, I had no idea there was this cohort of people in their business, like living off their wits, right, no job, no, no pension, no, nothing, just doing it their way. And I was so impressed by that. But I met all these small business or medium sized business people. And I came to instantly admire them for those reasons. And but when I talked to them, nobody had his story. No one knew what their story was. And so I said, Wow, how can that be? So I was looking for a way to help those people find that story. And so books were kind of a natural thing. So I'm coming up on my eighth book, I think, in terms of our company, catapult Yes, seven, yes, seven. But what I really like to do with people is sit down and help them find that story, that really important story, because it's never what they think it is. And it's and that process is so great, both for the subject that the person I'm dealing with, and for me to be able to help someone connect the dots and have them go, oh, you know, I didn't see that. Or I never recognize that. That's your story. It's really, really rewarding and really, really fun. Yeah, so I guess, are
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you creating multiple, because like, the, the story that they're gonna use really depends on what they're trying to do with their life, right? Or career or whatever. Like, they're crafting that story for purpose. And so do you find most people have like that one story that they're going to use it for everything. Because like, I know, in my life, I probably have like five or six different stories, depending on what area of my life I'm talking about. That would actually dictate like, show how I'm living, leading, doing all these things? That's such
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an interesting question. Because when people ask me, What's the difference? We need story brand. And for one thing, scale, they're a fantastic endeavor. And one guy living in Canada. So sorry with that, but I believe that your story isn't your story based on your industry. You're doing what you're doing now, Chris, for a reason. And so that story can't be I don't think you should write your story for your audience. I know that sounds really counterintuitive, and people don't think that but your your life stories, your life stories sort of relate, it's gonna lead into what you're doing. The important thing is, is that when you do need to do is give a lot of advice. So the three elements of a great story are, first off a proposition, something really great, something that is a little counterintuitive. That almost kind of sounds like your manifesto, like so say, a four hour and four hour workweek, great idea who wouldn't want what a great proposition, you can get everything done in four hours or any boost book quit, which is out now, which is a great book. So let me ask you this question, Chris. If you're a mountaineer, what's your goal?
8:56
Get to the top of the mountain and back down safely, I would say thank you. It's been climbed multiple mountains. And actually I have a great story. I'll tell you sometime about getting medivac off the top of a mountain after break fallen off a cliff and breaking both my ankles and pretty severe frostbite. But that's a separate
9:17
story. Nothing interesting about you at all, Chris. Yeah, so anything is sometimes quitting is the right idea. And we all have this thing where you persevere and you wish she was a professional poker player, right? Who would know more than a professional poker player about quitting? About what to throw in your hand? So she has this great proposition? Sometimes quitting is really the right thing. Most often it's the right thing. She has a great backstory, and that you know, she was a professional poker player, right? So of course she knows about quitting. And then she gives lots and lots and lots of advice about when he should quit when you context and contextualize the issue. So if you have your proposition, you should quit more often than you think you should. If you have your backstory, she was a professional poker player. And that made her a lot of money. And quitting made it probably as much money as the hands that she probably made more money and getting out than she got getting in. And the third element is really, really important is that advice, tons and tons and tons of advice. That's your book, Chris. That's the thing. You need those three elements. And that's and when you have that, then your story is going to resonate, whatever your business is, you're not temporary it for, for your audience, because you're doing what you're doing right now. Because you'll want to help the people are going to read your story, not the other way around, if that makes sense. Yeah, no, it does. I
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mean, if you, I should know my story better than anyone. And if there's advice that I can pull from my life to help someone else, like it's now just putting it in front of them. And if it's what you need to be hearing right now. Awesome, like, why would we not?
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And that's powerful, because really, that's, that's, that's, I would think that's the second most important thing. The first is those three things that the proposition, the backstory, and the advice. The second thing is, everyone's got a story, right? You can go to Facebook, they're never had more stories, you know, which is great. Your story is nothing but a conveyance for your, for your, for your proposition, but your story really is the way home for your conclusions. You know, stories are great conclusions are better. People don't listen to our stories for any other reason than to get something they can use then to find a conclusion. We're not in the story business, Chris, we're in the conclusion business.
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Yeah, I like that. I'm actually writing that down right now. Well, I
11:45
need So. So. Yeah, something,
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I guess. We're gonna shift directions a bit. And, um, we have a whole list of questions that I'd prepped, and I haven't touched any of them yet, because I got. So one of them, how do you make the proposition proposition of the book so clear to to anyone who's like just coming across or stumbling across it, whether it's like on Amazon or just through word of mouth? How do you make that so clear that people know this is for me, because one of the things that a lot of people I work with? Yeah, I call this shelf sabotage, where they know what they need to be working on. Yes. But then they just grab random books. Yeah. And they start reading these hoping that it's going to solve their problems, rather than going to find the specific book that's actually going to move the needle for them.
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Oh, that's, that's it? How can you? Well, it is because it speaks directly to their need most of all. So let me give you an example. So the proposition is either built on a piece of information that only maybe only you know, or are a piece of information, it's really vital to the person that's going to be reading your book. And remember, the book exists. 1% of the people that think more of you for writing the book will have read the book, the fact that you have a book is just as important. The three benefits of having a book are a people don't have to reinstate more of Yeah, be you can read a great book and see you achieve a clarity about your path and your life that you didn't have before. My one of my slogans is, if you wrote the book that you thought you're going to write, you wrote the wrong book, man, because it's the investing in looking at your backstory and investing in understand your industry. And taking all the experiences you might have accrued just yesterday, for the best and most current possible message. And you that clear did you come up with, I always tell people, Look, I'm gonna charge you 20 grand to write the book with you. To get funny clarity for you, I'll throw the book at it for free. Maybe the clarity is worth more than anything else. So that's super, super important. But let me give you an example of knowing one thing that nobody else knows. And while that proposition is great, and this happens all the time, right? So 5000 weeks to time management books, time management for mortals, the guy figured out that we live 5000 weeks, not a great leap of faith. But he said that he started working backwards, okay, and you're gonna look 5000 weeks, what do you want to do? What's the most important thing you do? That's really smart, you took something that was just a fact that you may or may not really have known, and extrapolated it and made it powerful and relevant and important for people. So let's say there's a fact that you know, that other people in your industry don't. And I'll give you an example. Let's say you are in the business of you're in the US, and you are in estate planning. And I've had conversations with people in estate planning, and they will tell you that people hate paying inheritance tax more than anything. Right. And so they will do Goofy, Goofy stuff, pardon me to avoid paying the inheritance tax they'll they'll give property to one person with the sort of tacit understanding that they'll give it somebody else to the taxman and we'll find But they'll choose the wrong people to administer the wills, they'll reward the most ineffectual, lazy person in their circle, because that person has the least income. So they'll give their that material their, their wealth to them. And the result, of course, is audio devastation of families. Because as they said, in Moneyball, it's not the money, it's what the money says. And when you, I don't know if you preview this, but when the money hits the table in the state, things get weird, right? And, and so it's really, really powerful. So the damage done by people trying to dodge this tax is really, really substantial, really substantial. And so let's say that you were a guy that did estate planning, and you have this great background, you always were interested in helping people, you were a boy scout, you are very, very entrepreneurial, perhaps, perhaps you served in the military, you don't see you felt a sense of duty towards the people you're trying to help. So that's who you are, you have a great backstory. And maybe you're in a situation where you've seen people come in time and time and time and time again, Chris, with these Harebrained Schemes that you can't talk them out of, and the thing goes here in Canada goes to probate, and it's just a shitstorm. Right? And, and, and it's terrible, but you can't talk people out. So you go to you go to the Bureau's and you go, okay, that person is going to be fighting with that person over the money. So you sit there, and this is a way to sort of distract yourself, because otherwise you're collecting all these little things from dead people's little cards, you know, sometimes pull those things out. And so and so and so you've reached this conclusion. And so you investigated, and you find out, the IRS actually keeps tabs on how many, how many deaths, 100 deaths resulted in inheritance tax. They keep tracking. So let me ask you this. Just take a guess. What out of 100? How many estates result in inheritance tax? Two, nice. Nice. Your bite by the closest 0.05. All right, you're really close. Really close. So if you wrote a book, and the proposition was stopped destroying your family for a tax that you never got to pay? That's a pretty strong proposition. Right? And so often the proposition is something really, really powerful like that, that you figured out. Often the proposition is your backstory, some element of your backstory, the thing that we don't recognize, Chris, is that everyone's backstory, we think what is normal to us is normal to everyone. My dad, who was a nut, but a great guy. He, we had his little dog, his little white dog, and his name was spunky, just just a vile little dog. When it came time to walk him, he'd put them in the car and put it when the old Datsun he drive on a town that grew up in Sarnia. So, you know, dirt roads weren't more than 10 minutes away, he'd take the dog out of the out of the car, he put the dog on the gravel, and then he slowly drive away. That was his version of walking the dog. And of course, the poor da gallop. Little hearts booting through, you know, and, but this is my dad, I didn't know anything different. And I sometimes I this is a bit of an exaggeration, but not that much. When I would see people when I was younger walking their dogs like people do, I would say those poor people can't afford a car
18:43
because what is normal to you is not normal to everybody else. So finding that thing, which is so important. I'll give an example if I may, I talked to a guy, he was a he's business. And when he was young, he never could understand why his parents they had good jobs, but never felt economically financially secure. He saw other kids with parents doing the same thing. And they seem to have more stuff. So he began to became very entrepreneurial he would when there's construction going around his neighborhood, he biked 12 cans of Coke, chillin all up and bringing salad to the guys. He was having paper ups, multiple paper routes. He was one of those guys, he was an entrepreneur, because based on the fact that he never liked that feeling. And so he went into later on after he took up a county and school and he went into wealth management, because he never wanted anybody else to have that feeling. Right. That's really germane. That backstory is really germane. So if you have even a reasonable proposition, and that killer backstory, and lots and lots of advice, you're going to be okay, so
19:52
let's get into the actual process of, of book writing. Yeah, I guess what a lot of people have tried I am sure almost every entrepreneur at some point said to themselves, I need to write a book. Yeah, right. There's obviously procrastination, all these hesitancies things that are competing, and we are
20:12
professional writers, we'll do anything, we can weigh 600 pounds, the other ones that said, Never trust a skinny writer, because if he's doing the work, if you're doing the work, you're shoving food in your mouth. So it's like, yeah, so what's sorry, procrastination is a big one.
20:29
So I guess what would you say is like the biggest mistake, that first time business authors are making stuff that stopping never actually achieving what they actually mean to with their books,
20:41
I think 15% There's two things I was I would divide down the middle. The first thing is people aren't in touch with their story, right? Because as I said, they don't know what's powerful. They don't really know where to start. I think that's really, really paralyzing to people. Well, that's my job, I sit with you, and it could take hours, but I sit with you, we're gonna figure it out. We're gonna figure what the backstory is, what their proposition is. And we're gonna figure it out. So that's, that's really important. So I was doing a story, a book with a guy. And he's he's writing about servant leadership. And servant leadership is fantastic. You understand? I, you will be a person that leaves their life based on sort of leadership. I really believe that
21:19
I actually believe I hate the title, servant leadership. So I think it should just be called leadership with me. So but yeah,
21:27
so my guys is into servant leadership. And he and he believes really strongly in it. And we're talking and, and we don't quite know what, we're gonna take this because servant leadership is 50 years old, and it's not sexy. So if you're ready to book with certain leadership, you're not going to sell one. Right? So we're talking and we're talking about millennials, and I'm, you know, asking about, and you know, he says millennials, right? They believe what we believe, but they'll walk, they want a transparent system of advancement. They want tons and tons and tons of feedback. They want to know that they're on it that the person they're working with gives a damn about them. They don't want any sexism or racism in the workplace, none of this stuff. And if they don't get up, they'll walk. And that's right, he said, and then I said, Well, Mark, you're you're a 50 year old millennial. And then instant, that was the hook, the 50 year old millennial. That's the name of the book, the 50 year old millennial. He was never supposed to be a banker, but millennials, it was about servant leadership. But we found that the elements of servant leadership are particularly well suited for dealing with millennials, but they weren't for anybody. So that became the book and the guy did really, really well with it, the 50 year old millennial, So that part's really super important about how you figure that out. And you really almost have to have help, because it's really hard to sort of figure that out right by yourself. So that's the first thing, people don't know where to start. The second thing, and I got all sorts of time for people that don't know where to start, I get it. The second thing I have no patience for. And it's this, someone has told you that your story is not worth telling that you're like, isn't that interesting that you have nothing to offer, and that the human being, I find that to be an obscenity, I don't blame the person for believing it. Because we all believe stuff that we were told generally when we were kids, and we all carry our parents stuff around. But that's not true. And the fact that people believe it, they feel their voice isn't resonant, that they don't matter pisses me off. And because someone has lied to them, and it's going to be really hard for me to convince you that your voice is worthy that your story is powerful. And it shouldn't be that way. And so I'm angry on behalf of all the people who falsely believed because of what they were told by people they respected, that they didn't have anything to offer. I think that's an obsession with me. I just, I just hate that. And so those are the two things that people don't believe that their story is powerful and resonant and they have something to offer. And the other thing is they don't know where to start.
24:16
Right? I think those are probably tied pretty well together to like if they knew where to like, they don't feel like they have a great story because they didn't know where to start with that story starting at the places that are top of mind for them that they're like no one's interested in this. But that next step met if you just talked about this a little more and got here. Now we're now we're gonna play so actually resonates with people. Well, so we'll
24:39
talk about gamma real estate commercial real estate book. They said what do people need to know? He said, Well, they need to know it's complicated. I said, How many things are there you can do to complete screw up real estate deals off the top of your head? How many things could you name so that could name 10 ways to completely screw up your real estate portfolio? That's pretty good, but 10 Waste screw up real estate portfolio, because it comes out as such an interesting way. Right? So, so yeah, it's that it's that conversation. It's that real conversation. And yeah, and that's your manifesto. That's that's the, that's the hill you die on. And that is that different thing that really grabs people. And most importantly, it offers them utility. You know, who wouldn't want a four hour workweek? Who wouldn't want to be reminded that life is finite? And we should do out do the best we can? Who wouldn't want to learn how to win friends and influence people? Right? Who wouldn't want to do that? So these are great propositions and fantastic books. Yeah,
25:39
my only concern with the 50 year old millennial is that in 20 years, that's just the standard millennial, with her now awesome.
25:49
wants to write another one Son of 50 year old millennial like Senator Frankenstein, but but, yeah, the books been great for him.
25:59
So how do you if we have to get to these stories, right, you're, you're helping people figure out where they should start and stuff, a lot of that comes down to figuring out kind of being vulnerable with themselves and figuring out what stories they actually want to share, but being willing to share these parts of them. Because those are the things that are actually going to resonate with people. How do you kind of coax that out of them? You
26:18
nailed that crest that's so insightful. If you don't mind me saying, vulnerability is reciprocal. If you make yourself vulnerable to the person, then the personal will make yourself vulnerable. So I told you a story about my bipolar illness, and the fact that I wrecked my career. It's hard not to share when someone tells you something like that. So that's a great, it's, I don't even want to say it's a tip, because if I wouldn't ever want to see it described as a technique, because that means it's false. And it's shallow.
26:53
Yeah. disingenuous. Yes,
26:54
I think so we're disingenuous. But if you're willing to be vulnerable with your subject, then your subject is going to be willing, because it's the law of reciprocity. We don't like feeling that we owe people something. And so if that person is, is that way, then we will be the same way with them, because we want to get on them always want to be on the same turf as them. So that's super important. And that Chris is really, really telling, because that's the difference between a great book and a good book. And I'll give you an example. I did a book with this guy named Ron Foxcroft great guy, you know, those whistles you blown the super, super loud, he invented those great guy. He's got a business called fluke, transport trucking. The slogan is, if it's on time, it's a fluke, like there's no shortage of great story is with this guy. And we're talking the book is almost done. And I said, I noticed you don't drink. And he said, No, I've never had a drink in my life. And I said, there's only two reasons why people have never had a drink. Right? They either have a mother who was an alcoholic, or father who was an alcoholic. Which one was it with you? And he said, it was my dad. And he beat me up every week, for about seven years when I was a kid. It did so because he was unhappy with his life, because my dad was one of those guys, who was a woulda, shoulda, coulda guy. And he said, you know, he could have been so much more successful in his life, how do you want it to be, but he's always willing to take the easy way out the wooded of the show to the cut up. And that faster than anger in him. And he took out on me and the rest of his family. And so I decided right early in the game that I was never going to drink. And I was never going to say woulda, shoulda, coulda all that came out of one question about why he doesn't drink. And so the book became immensely more powerful. Because who doesn't have or know someone who has that story, right? And so by willing by him being willing to be vulnerable, and that's really important, because he wouldn't have put that in his book. Right? He just wouldn't have I wouldn't have either, right? Only when someone asks you after they've established trust, will you tell them the truth, but that's such a powerful part of the story. Because now you're really know what makes this guy tick. He's still 75 years old, he's still working 60 hours a week, he's still showing his dad, he's not going to be like him. Right? That's really powerful. And so that's, that's an you nearly wasted vulnerability. That's the powerful part of vulnerability. And that's why it makes you look so much better by being vulnerable.
29:46
I guess my last question before we get into our final three here, all right. What are what are some of the trends that you're starting to see and as we move into the future of book publishing, right, it's it's almost more when people are using AI Yeah. Know that to try creating their books? And yeah, I don't know if that's the best approach, Someone's probably figured it out for a good way. I don't, we won't get into that. But like it's there's probably more resources, more assets, more tools to be able to create your story and actually get that out now than ever. So is that going to saturate the market? Is it going to make it more more important to actually get your real story like the good the true, vulnerable story out now, so that you don't blend in with the noise? Like I guess? How are you viewing the future of?
30:35
Well, people are willing to do it, Chris, because it's hard. It's hard, it takes several months than it takes you. And there's a lot of nights where you got to sit there and look at a blank no one that mythical writers like me is that we like it. We don't like it, I don't like it. I just have no other way of making a living. I look at the keyword the same way, man, I will do anything not to write any excuse. And every writer I knows, knows the same way. Because if you do it well, it's hard. There's like 75 verbs for something. But only one perfect one. Right? There is there's so many great ways to describing something, but only one optimum one. And the problem with it is once you get better at it, you realize you can't cheat them anymore, you have to still keep on trying to get better as in creative writing with you. And so that part's really challenging. But the the big thing that's happened, all my my clients put their books on Amazon, Amazon's brilliant because it's the world's biggest bookstore A, B, it's really handy and available. And see, you don't have to pay the printing costs. There are no, when people say to me, I want to get my book in an airport, I tell them the same, I don't think it's gonna happen. There are fewer and fewer publishers with shorter and shorter lists. So it's really, really the creme de la creme de la creme de la creme. And those I don't, I'm not going to write a book that's going to end up in the airport, I've had it happen, but it's um, that's not going to happen to me. And so it's not going to happen to you either. But the great thing is the gatekeepers are gone. And so you can have all the benefits of that book. Because remember, of the 100 people that look at their book, or think better of you for having a book, only one read it if that that's probably your mom. So it's so powerful, but because the gatekeepers are gone, because Amazon and a lot of companies like them exist, it's never been easier to do. So as someone like me, this is my service, we drill down, we find those three things. And we've added, if you're my client, Chris, you be so sick of me, because I am just you're you're we're gonna get there, and you're going to be going while you're asking me these questions, because why do you care what my mother did for a living, but we're gonna get there, we're gonna figure it all up. And, and it's a bit of a, it's a process, you have to trust the process, and the person that's administering the process. But that means that there because there are no gatekeepers, and because there's people like me doing it, it's very, very possible to do. And so what we do is we find that story. And then depending on whether you want me to write it, or ghost write it, or what I prefer to do is help the person right, and we have a brilliant coach that gets you there are brilliant staff of editors that can that can bring your work to machine. So you know, we can get you that book, if you want to work on and help, we can get you that book for like 10k in the can up on Amazon. Or if you want to shop it around and use five or something like that, or you know, someone who's an editor, you can get a better price all to the good. But like that's a substantial investment. But that's not a prohibitive investment. I don't think, no, no. And
33:57
so it's nothing capture everything for your entire life.
34:01
I know. And you can spend a second book out of that, because we've probably turned over enough stones. And and you've got that story that you're going to tell everyday. And the thing about that story is it's your fingerprint, someone can steal the same insurance that you're selling, someone can move into your territory, you know, no matter what it is you do, no one can replicate your fingerprint. That is your story and your life because you're the only person who's had that life, right? And so it's super, super powerful. And then of course, it's the pivot for it's the pivot point for all your social media. So instead of going, what am I going to what am I going to post today? Here's what you're gonna post dude, you have the fundamental story. And you have so that's the hub of the wheel. And then you have 50 spokes coming up just different ways of looking at it. You never have to figure out your social media again, because this is your social media. And if you're at a if you're at a BNI event, and you have to give, you know, the elevator speech, you have it because I said it's three sentences And so it has such utility, if you have a podcast like you, it determines what kind of podcast it is, it can even determine the art and the texture of it how it looks, certainly would determine the cover of it, the name of it. So it's so really important and much more possible now than ever. So when you ask, how it's changing, it's all changing to the good. It's, it's, it's more available now than ever. And, and as you say, as more people write their books and stuff like that, it becomes more important just to kind of stay abreast. But it's almost narrow, you're going to have someone in competition in your, in your region, and your market in your category that's written a book, they don't do it, because it's hard, and they don't think they were permitted. And it's a lot of work. And that's why they don't do it.
35:46
There you go. All right, Mike, this has been great. We're gonna jump into the last three questions here.
35:54
Questions, the answer, your question is Bismarck, North Dakota,
35:59
don't know which direction you're going with that one.
36:02
One of these times, it's gonna be eventually.
36:08
You have written a lot of books. And so I don't want you to use one of your own. But what book would you recommend everyone read?
36:15
Oh, that's easy. I think the best business book I can give you to allow it. Your very kind, and influence people because it's story based. It's brilliant, brilliant, brilliant book written in 1934. So 30 million copies. And the E Myth. The E Myth is about the entrepreneurial myth. It's about how I have a friend who's a mechanic, and he said, my business changed. When I stopped sticking my head, I need the hoods of cars. And so it's about how to run a small business as a business. And it's, I think it's a terrific book.
36:51
Awesome. What is next for you professionally?
36:55
Well, I just hope to do more of this. I just love the idea of talking to people and helping them figure this stuff out. That would be ideal. So obviously, when you look at me, uh, you know, I'm not a kid. And so I've had an extraordinarily fortunate career. And really, there isn't, if I sell if I write 20 books or 25 work, it's not gonna make any difference. But if I help you figure out your story and use that and that becomes something you can use any utility for the rest of your career. Whether there so that's, that's what I want to do. That's what I want take my business, I want to help as many people as I can figure it out.
37:34
And then the last question, Where can people find you?
37:39
Sure. It's Bismarck. Capital north, people can find me on my website, Mike calmer.com. Or they can look me up on on LinkedIn. And either one of those should
37:54
should work fine. Awesome. All right, Mike, thanks for joining me.
37:56
Thank you for having me. Chris. I had a riot. Thank you.
38:03
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai