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Alex Alexic (00:00)
All right, guys, welcome to the sixth episode of roofing stories. This time we are joined by Alex Boerma. He has a roofing company in Florida. He impressed me before we started this episode by telling me that he does around five to five, four to five roofs a week. And he has a saying, which is people first, roofing second. He believes truly that people come first.
And I believe he is going to be an interesting guest, especially because he says that his company specializes in having a great administrative structure, which many companies struggle with, with having systems and processes. And I believe that Alex will be able to help you a lot through this episode. So welcome to Roofing Stories, Alex. It's nice to have you.
Alex Boerma (00:46)
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Alex Alexic (00:49)
So Alex, tell me more about the company. What do you guys do? And how do you manage to have four to five roofs a week? How's that going?
Alex Boerma (01:02)
I mean, it's definitely a dream. I honestly didn't expect it to blow up as fast as it did. We're an exterior remodeling company, but we do happen to focus mainly bread and butter, roofing and solar. So it seems to be a very hot ticket item in Florida. And I wasn't to say no. So we just rerun roofing, and then we just happen to do a little bit of exterior remodeling, like if we wanted to build bell towers on top of a house, or if windows, doors, siding.
you know, making things look aesthetically pleasing. We just got into fencing recently, but we do a lot more roofing than anything. And it's mainly from having a successful administrative setup. We do a lot of marketing, but 50% of our business is referral-based. So it just seems to be the more business we bring in, it tends to extrapolate on top of itself. So that we went from one to two roofs a week to doing three to five and...
this year next quarter we're hoping to do you know eight to ten and you know end goal fifteen roofs a week by the end of the year.
Alex Alexic (02:06)
So how much or how big revenue wise is your company currently? What is that you make a year? How much did you make last year? If obviously if you're fine and comfortable saying that.
Alex Boerma (02:17)
So last year, yeah, last year. So last year was actually technically our first year and we did 1.5 million in sales This year, we're trajectory about five but with new implementations We our goal is 15 million, but we'll probably do 5 million this year
Alex Alexic (02:24)
Mm-hmm.
I actually talked to another roofing company, Trust Roofing from Florida, maybe you know them. So, we had Robin as a guest and he's been doing very well. 17 million a year, very impressive, right? So Florida, would you say, is the best state for roofing? Is that true? Or it's just fake news in our marketing world?
Alex Boerma (02:44)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Someone can be wrong. Florida is very, very competitive. It's one of the harder states to have a license with. But when you look at what you're doing, roofing, you're going to only have issues whether you use bad materials and over time it's got wear and tear or it's probably going to be a storm. Florida does have three to five storms a year. Trajectoring that, yes, you're going to have a lot of roofs that need to be done. We have a lot of homes
I mean, Ohio, Texas, North Carolina, Louisiana, I mean, anywhere that's in this belt of storms, you're gonna have great business. Now, it's becoming very saturated in Florida. It doesn't mean that business isn't booming, but you're gonna have a lot of competition, which means you're gonna have a lot of regulations. So, tending most policies and laws, they tend to go in after something's already happened. So, what you're seeing now is insurance companies are starting to kind of...
cracked down on how they're paying. Usually back in the day, you can have a field adjuster come out, look over storm damage and they'd write a check on the spot. Now you have independent adjusters. So now that process is being sprawled out to three weeks to a month, month and a half. And next thing you know, maybe they'll pop ACV policies where it's like just cash value where they'll pay 20% or 25% of the total cost, depending on what their premiums will be. So in that case,
determining market where like say Ohio where there's tornadoes they're still paying insurance pills out by like two weeks.
Alex Alexic (04:37)
Understood, understood. So you would say Florida is getting a bit tougher for new people who are trying to get into roofing and... Yeah.
Alex Boerma (04:46)
So new people, yes. If you don't know how the system works, it's gonna be tough to get in.
Alex Alexic (04:52)
So what would you considering that you're already one year in business and you're doing pretty well five to six million after a year It's quite impressive, right? Especially after the first year. So what is your advice to new people getting into roofing? What would Alex Boerma that was starting a roofing company a year ago and that currently that's five to six roofs a week Tell that Alex Boerma then what is the main advice you think would
Alex Boerma (05:01)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Alex Alexic (05:19)
get to this progress, let's say six months in, instead of a year.
Alex Boerma (05:25)
Honestly, it would come down to interest, right? If your bread and butter is gonna be insurance deals, that's one thing. If you're just cash, if you're financing, if you're using government programs, if you're trying to become preferred vendors, subcontract for others, whatever it is that your profession is or that you're specialized in, I would say compound down on it. So make the decision, I do this. This is what I'm really good at. Okay, cool. Well then now, how do you get that word out?
So now how do you let people know? Are you gonna call them? Are you gonna show up? Are you gonna send ads out online, emails? There isn't really any special sauce, but as you can probably see in marketing, you can get like a two, 3% return with online marketing, but if you're going door to door, it can be one out of 10 homes you talk to, or if you're using yard signs, billboards, your main thing is getting the word out, right? This is what we do.
So just figuring that portion out and then just reverse engineering what your numbers are trying to do. Oh, I'm trying to do a million this year. Okay, well how many roofs would that be? Okay, well it's going to be two roofs a week and I can do a million. Okay, cool. How am I getting two in and how many people do I need to talk to before I got a deal in? So okay, well I got to talk to 50 people usually before I've gotten a deal. Okay, well your goal is 100 people you talk to a week. You know, that's you're kind of breaking down your targets and then you're just going to shoot for it.
Alex Alexic (06:53)
So you believe that planning everything and having a plan and an idea how to spread the word about your company is extremely important for growth, right? So
Alex Boerma (07:04)
Yes. It's almost like a brand recognition. You know, you're building a brand and the more that people see it, the more they can trust it. It's probably why, you know, Robin chose trust roofing. You can trust him to do your roof. And that's the brand. Right. So when people see that, they go, oh, yeah, I should call them.
Alex Alexic (07:16)
Mm-hmm.
And what is your brand?
Alex Boerma (07:22)
Next door exterior solutions. Well, next door exteriors, but, you know, we kind of went off the philosophy that we're doing your neighbor's roof. So because 50% of our business is referral. Yeah, you know, next door is they're doing next door exteriors, but that was kind of the idea. My main like bread and butter is neighborhood domination. So if I get one lead in a neighborhood, it's not just one lead now it's 50 leads because now I'm going to talk to every single person.
Alex Alexic (07:25)
Mm-hmm.
Like a good neighbor's state farm.
Mm-hmm.
Alex Boerma (07:51)
in that neighborhood and I'm going to name drop. So even if I don't close that one lead that comes in, I'm going to talk to 50 other people and odds are there's an issue there. So if I can kind of pinpoint what their issues are, whether it's the insurance companies dropping them, their premiums are too high, they have a leak, their insurance told them they have to replace their roof, you know, these are going to be hot buttons, hot ticket items that I can pretty much push to every neighbor and probably get a deal in there. And then every person that I close.
I'm asking for referrals and saying, Hey, how did we do? You know, my saying is that we're in the business of people. We just happen to do roofing. And that's the truth because even though we do five, six roofs a week, this is their first roof odds are worst case second roof, if they've been in Florida for 15, 20 years, so this is all new to them. It could be straightforward for me. And I can almost forget that they've never been through this before.
So if you can walk them through the process and really get them to understand the size of the project and what's being done, they're gonna appreciate that. And after that, once you get them to sign off that they're happy and they love their product, you can usually get three more people's names out of them and you can start to reassure, like get references and referrals from them. So your business tends to compound on top of that.
Alex Alexic (09:09)
I see. So from what you are saying, it kind of feels to me like you are people expert, you know your way around the people and you are able to extract as much value from every interaction with every person, right? And this is something that you strive on and something you're proud of. So what is your top advice when it comes to customer relations? Many roofing companies that I saw
Alex Boerma (09:27)
Yes.
Alex Alexic (09:39)
have problems with those. You know, some people are rude or unprofessional or they have a bad day, right? So how do you navigate situations and what is the perfect example that you have that happened to you that shows your expertise in people?
Alex Boerma (10:01)
As far as an example, I probably give it a thought, but the first thought that came to mind as you're saying this is you're going to have issues if somebody tries to beat you down on price. Usually a lot of people are going to have that sticker shock. Whoa, $20,000 for my roof. It got done 20 years ago for eight. You know, you kind of have to explain to them why the pricing goes up and you should know that as for yourself.
The product's petroleum based. It's gonna go up 10% a year just because it's petroleum. Supply and demand, the more storms that come through, the less likely you are to be on schedule. Price is gonna go up. Inflation, I mean, there's many different reasons why something's gonna go up, and you should know that already to be able to explain it. But your main thing when you're dealing with people is you're selling a value. Like when I'm going in and I'm gonna sell a roof, I'm not just coming in and handing them a piece of paper saying $20,000.
I'm breaking it down. I'm showing them value because it's not just a roof. I'm replacing vents. I'm replacing their underlayment. The drip edge around the entire house is being replaced. There's probably off-ridge vents that now need to become the top Cobra vents. There's a lot of things that we're doing. If they had a three-tab before, we're putting architectural shingles on there. These may just as a roofer seem like your normal day-to-day things because they can be.
But to a homeowner, that's extra, so that's value. You don't have to necessarily charge more for it, but make sure you're letting the homeowner know the extra steps and value you're giving them. That's value. How much is that extra? Well, you know, we're gonna throw in a solar vent. This is a $1,500 value, but we like you. Here you go, we're gonna give it to you. That goes a long way when you're getting referral basis because these homeowners, they see that, and that is a $1,500 value, even though maybe for your cost is 500, 400.
If retail value, that's $1,500. The same thing with peel and stick. If you're using peel and stick underlayment, that's like $50 extra square, you know, every hundred square feet, that's extra. If you're gonna throw that in there or you just do it flat out, don't forget to tell the homeowner that extra you're doing for them. That's where your value's built.
Alex Alexic (12:04)
Yeah, I mean, it's all about value stacking, right? You need to lead with value, right? That's what I tell people. If you lead with value, you'll never end up losing because if you provide the value at first, people who receive the value will feel indebted to you, you know, mentally, right? For example, I like to repeat again, we all watch Alex Ramosi, maybe you do, maybe you don't. But if you don't, I believe he's a really...
Alex Boerma (12:08)
Mm-hmm.
Correct. Yeah.
Alex Alexic (12:33)
great marketing expert and what he said is whenever he would go into a new room or a classroom he would bring chewing gum right and he would provide chewing gum to everybody else which shows him as some everybody is going to feel this depth because he gave them a chewing gum he made this first step over the bridge and you by giving the free value to all these customers of yours by showing them
Okay, yes, I'm more expensive, but I'm providing you so many bonuses. I'm providing you different stuff that is going to cost you more in other company, right? And I believe that your method goes the long way. Even if you're losing in profits, let's say, you are winning in referrals because you're essentially getting a new roof free of charge. And by having somebody vouching for you, especially their neighbor, I mean, it's a done deal, realistically.
So I totally understand now why you say that we are in business of people and you just happen to be in the roofing because it's a very smart, you know, if you learn how to sell, how to talk to people, how to convince them, there's no other skill you really need in life. From my understanding, of course, if you disagree, feel free to tell me. But yeah, I...
Alex Boerma (13:53)
Yeah, no, it's true. I mean, if somebody trusts you, you got to think too. This isn't just like a bottle of lotion you're selling. I mean, you're ripping one third of that person's home off the top of their house. You know, it's a big project. And you're talking 10, 15, 30 thousand dollars, sometimes even fifty thousand dollars. And these are this is numbers people don't necessarily think about when they're first buying their home, you know, 15 years go by or maybe 10 years go by. And now all of a sudden, there's this, oh, I have to spend this much money.
So there is a sense of empathy that you need to keep in mind when you're dealing with these people. It's every day for us. These numbers are being shot left and right in front of other roofers. But when you're first sitting down with a homeowner, if they haven't gotten another bid before you, you're in the hot seat because now you kind of have to be the one to explain why it's so expensive.
Alex Alexic (14:43)
Yeah, absolutely. So what is the most expensive roof you've sold so far in your roofing journey?
Alex Boerma (14:52)
Uh, so far, 105,000. It was a tile job. No, just a tile roof.
Alex Alexic (14:55)
Was it a commercial? Commercial? Just a tower of how big?
Alex Boerma (15:02)
Uh, 56 squares, I think. 5600 square feet.
Alex Alexic (15:07)
Oh, that's a huge house, no? Oh wow, that's impressive. So you do commercial or just residential?
Alex Boerma (15:09)
Yeah.
tried commercial. The problem is, there's a lot of people out there willing to do work for very cheap. I've already found a niche dealing with government programs and insurance that I don't really need to do commercial. I mean, Carleton Arms had us doing a couple of apartment complexes for them, but at the end of the day, another roofer came in and wanted to do it pretty much near cost. I think they maybe would have made like 40 grand, but this would be a six-month project. For me, $40,000 over six months is not worth it.
So obviously I said no, but it could be for some people, if your game is not sales and you're trying to just stay busy production-wise, commercial could be great because you just have to come in, find out what exactly it would cost you to do it and just kind of put your salary on top and then you basically just become a project manager for these people as they get their roofs done. But for me, I just have to go out into a neighborhood with some of my canvassers and sales reps and I can probably pull five, six deals in.
Probably close three of them and there you go. There's my $40,000 right there.
Alex Alexic (16:20)
Yeah, of course. Uh, right. So something that you told me before we started the stream and that I asked you in private chat is that you are most proud of your administrative structure. How does it look like and why are you so proud of it? Why, why, why are administrative structure? It's such a, I don't think I would expect this answer from anybody else. They usually say a sales team the way we do the work, but why administrative structure? Why do you think?
That's the best in your company.
Alex Boerma (16:50)
Well, I love my sales guys. Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't really be here without my sales, but the administrative structure is what gives my salesmen the triumph. So for them to win, they have to have this already set up in place for them, or else it would just be chaos. They don't know where to start. I mean, you bring somebody on, they can have 10 years of sales experience. But if you just send them off into a neighborhood and you said, figure it out, it's going to be pretty tough. My administrative setup.
is from a lead prospect to approved and enclosed and invoiced. Like I have it all set up structurally throughout the process. I can keep track of everything financially done, any additionals that were given. I keep track of every single email or communication that's been done between the homeowners. I even have a backlog where I can send information and updates to the homeowner that they can just kind of check back and forth. The apps that we use, every one of my guys has an iPad.
and they can keep track of everyone they've kept and touched with, and then it'll actually give them follow-up routines. So if three to four days they haven't heard from somebody that was considered a prospect, they would get notified and then they can reach out either through email or call, and they can see right off the rip, what was the last conversation that was had with that person? So with all of that, they get to hold a lot higher closing rate, and which makes their lives better and makes the company better, but that's the...
keeping track of everything and trying to keep order with chaos. Cause if you have, I mean, even if we're doing five, six roofs a week, there's probably a couple hundred leads at a time that's there being talked with and getting all postcards being sent and followups and remarketing with pixel codes on Facebook. Like there's all of these things being done at the back end that, you know, you got to keep track of.
Alex Alexic (18:43)
Of course, of course, that's for sure. So what is your advice for people that want to set up such an administrative structure, how they are going to create something similar to yours? And what is the strategy? Like, do you have any advice for somebody who wants to make an administrative structure like yours?
Alex Boerma (19:03)
If somebody was going to try to do it from scratch, get comfortable with Google spreadsheets. That's going to be the cheapest and easiest way. And you got to base, like map out your product from start to finish, A to Z. What is it that you do and what are the milestones? And then just make sure you're marking those down so that when you have homeowners you're working with or new leads that you have, just define it. You have to make sure that even in a spreadsheet, you're defining it what it is.
Alex Alexic (19:11)
Thanks for watching.
Alex Boerma (19:32)
These are leads. These are prospects. This is a homeowner that's approved. This is shingled roofs. These are metal roofs. And you're defining them down to a spreadsheet so that if somebody random just was to come in and click on it, they can see what's happening and it makes sense. Color coordinations, whatever you gotta do. That's gonna be the cheapest route. Otherwise, you can find software out there, Salesforce, Go High Level, I think is another one. You can pay monthly for, yeah.
Alex Alexic (19:58)
That's a good one.
Hahaha
Alex Boerma (20:01)
You know, there's these different softwares you can pay monthly for that can help you stay organized. But if you're feeling like confusion or chaos, your best thing to do is to start putting organization in. Just find one thing at a time, start organizing. And then that way you can look at it and just off the rip, you know where you're at.
Alex Alexic (20:23)
Okay, so besides, let's go back to, I guess, marketing and these sort of things, because I truly believe that marketing, you know, is extremely important for every company and what I've worn every single roofer that I meet and talk to. You don't need to go with my company, but us people, as we go older and go into bracket of being 30 or 40, and we'll need...
or look for roofs and be the owners of the houses, will be searching for roofing companies online, in my opinion. Again, you can tell me if I'm wrong, but do you agree that essentially, if you want to survive in the next 10, 15, 20 years, you will need to have online presence? Do you think it's a must, or you think it's overhyping by marketers to force people into buying their services?
Alex Boerma (21:18)
I believe it's subjective. There's no real right or wrong answer to that. Everyone's going to tell you something different. Some people hate door knocking. Some people love it. Some people swear by Facebook marketing. Some people hate it. The truth is, you can't have all your eggs in one basket. That's the thing. If you're relying on one source of marketing, you're going to have a hard time because then you're just susceptible to whatever that brings you. For me, my successful
If I can send postcards to an area where a storm got hit, and I can geo market that area, and then I can have pixel codes connected to my postcards where there's remarketing on Facebook happening, Google, if they're on a weather channel, our ad is there, there will be people that reach out. But one of my more successful actions is to find those neighborhoods that have been susceptible to these damages or being dropped. And then my sales force goes in and we'll just clean up shop. And...
You know, it's kind of like a funneling effect. There's people that call in and they're like, yes, I need a roof. How much then there's people that were, oh, well, I don't know if I have those funds, maybe in three months. And then there's, you know, there's these people that you can kind of keep track with and funnel. But once somebody goes to their door and they're like, Hey, you know, we saw that you have this quote from us two months ago and you never closed it, you know, just wanted to check in because we're working with Sally across the way and your name popped up and I just wanted to say hi and see what you thought.
You know, once you got that face to face, it's just night and day difference. And you can find out the real reason they didn't do it. They can say, Oh, well, you know, we're actually waiting off to save up for a metal roof or, Oh, well, actually we heard of this other program that's going to pay for it. Or we're going to sell a house, you know, whatever their reason or rebuttal comes to be, you can find out fairly effectively, but you need to be able to follow up and you need to have that funnel from online to in person.
Alex Alexic (23:15)
Yeah, absolutely. Honestly, Alex, so far, I think you are the most knowledgeable person when it comes to marketing that we had on the show. It's so impressive that you utilize some of the systems that we offer in our companies, such as calling leads, following up with the leads, that kind of stuff. I've noticed that most of the companies, even if they utilize online marketing, if they miss a lead, they don't bother calling it again. They don't follow up, they don't double dial.
Alex Boerma (23:15)
specifically with projects this size.
Alex Alexic (23:44)
And then they're like, Oh, but you guys wasted $3,000 of my money. Where are my leads? Of course. Yes. Uh, we can generate them, but you need to follow up. You need to utilize like every lead has some sort of intent, but it's your job to bring that intent to close. So marketing cannot get you all the deals because then we would open our own company, right? So it needs to be a combination of efforts.
Alex Boerma (23:51)
Follow up.
Alex Alexic (24:12)
together to make something work. Right. And many people think that if you
Alex Boerma (24:16)
Mark from my opinion marketing is a clean sweep. You're using marketing to sweep up, but it's up to you to be able to pick up and close the people individually. And that's where sales comes in, you know, you can have marketing, but if you don't have a sales division to close these leads, you're it's a double edged sword. You gotta you gotta have both. So yeah, I agree with you. But I think was a Google there was like something where it's like 80% of leads can close from follow up.
Like it's from five to six touches. Like you have to talk to them five to six, maybe eight times before they close. And it was like 80% per Google's analytics. So yeah, if you're not following up, you're not even giving yourself a real try.
Alex Alexic (24:51)
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah. So, uh, we had the, we have this slide in our presentation when we try to sell our services to others and we said it takes eight to 12 touch points for, to close the sale, especially in the roofing, right? Uh, follow up is so important and many people are like, um, oh yes, I call this Google lead that you guys generated, but he didn't answer. Okay. Yes. Of course he didn't answer because you didn't call him within five minutes, but keep following up with them.
You never know their situation, maybe their kid got sick, maybe they're eating, maybe they're out in the yard. That's the thing that many people forget. People fill in the form and then they go with their lives, of course, unless it's urgent. If it's urgent, then if you don't answer within five minutes, then your competitor probably is. So whoever calls first gets the job, usually, unless they call.
Alex Boerma (25:52)
Yeah, from my experience, I'm sure everyone will be different. I mean, I've used Angie's home advisors, roofing calculator, you know, I've used a lot of these programs and software is the thing that I notice is people don't answer with after five minutes because their phone's probably still going off. They get bombarded with six, eight, 10 phone calls. So usually calling again and within 24 hours is good once it's settled down, but showing up, if you have the capability to show up way better.
show up say hey you know i saw you online and you inquired were actually working in the neighborhood someone to just stop by face to face if i can help answer any questions
Alex Alexic (26:32)
That is an extremely good strategy, especially if you are working in a smaller area, right? Maybe it's not possible for huge cities like, I guess, Denver, because there's like 100 miles to pass it. But if you're working in a smaller area and the place is like five miles away from the office, just go in person. Now see with their neighbors, if they're not home or if they're home, just knock and see, oh, you just filled in the form with my company, how can we help? And they will appreciate it because it shows that you are
willing to expand and spend your time and be there right away. And it's very likely going to end up as a close if they are very high intent. Either way, you're getting an inspection.
Alex Boerma (27:11)
Oh yeah, I know most people are probably scared if they're like, oh, well, if I show up, what if they slam the door in my face? What if they're angry? But the truth is, they reached out to you. If you already know their name and you're showing up because they put an inquiry in, they're actually more relieved, if not thankful that you showed up. Because right now they got Chuck in a truck blowing them up trying to give them a quote. But you're there right there to answer a question that actually appreciate it more.
Alex Alexic (27:35)
Yep, yep. So that is very important, the customer support aspect, as you say. People want to be, so if somebody gives you 20 to 30,000, which is on average, I guess, a minimum salary in the United States during a year time, like a minimum 30 to $40,000 a year, if somebody's willing to give you a yearly salary for a roof, then you should respect them, right? Because...
Roofing is a high tier item. You need to put them at the first place. And if you do that, you'll easily close the sale, right? Many people just, you know, I had people who I worked for and they would offer some guarantees and stuff. And when people call them about a guarantee, they don't answer. So why do you expect the reputation is going to be? And then I really kind of stopped working with them because I don't want to be involved into...
somebody who doesn't keep their promises because if they don't keep a promise to their customer, then how they'll keep promise to me. So I truly believe that customer relations are very, very important because one bad review can screw your entire company over.
Alex Boerma (28:47)
It could. Yeah, you want to definitely make sure you're following up A to Z and even follow up. I mean, a really good thing I've learned actually from realtors is you can get postcards made every Christmas or like during the holidays and everyone that you've ever spoken with or done a roof for just send out a, you know, a team postcard like, hey, like thinking about you. I hope you have a great holiday. You know, that kind of stuff goes a long way and you'd be surprised if you have a
like whether you did the roof or not you've worked with them they know who you are if they receive a postcard they're actually that much more likely to refer you at that moment than they did ever before. It's kinda like a chinese menu in a drawer they may not need you right now but in three four months when they're thinking about somebody you're already fresher in their mind.
Alex Alexic (29:22)
Yep. Absolute saw off.
Yep, absolutely. So a friend of mine, whenever somebody signs with his marketing company, he works with retailers. And what he does, whenever somebody signs, he sends them some merch right away and he sends them gifts. And that way you are buying the favors. Again, we spoke about chewing gum. By sending stuff, yes, it is extremely nice thing to do, but you're also buying yourself time and favors. Right? If service is going bad, you're going
Alex Boerma (29:47)
Yep.
Alex Alexic (30:01)
but you show that you actually care about them by sending stuff, by extending the hand, then you buy yourself a lot more time and you buy a lot more money, right? That postcard idea is extremely, extremely good idea. And I think many people should utilize it because it shows that you are...
Alex Boerma (30:21)
I mean, how much you spend on marketing already was a couple extra hundred bucks, you know.
Alex Alexic (30:26)
So, how do you currently generate leads besides referrals and dominating neighborhoods? How do you currently get the jobs besides those ways?
Alex Boerma (30:36)
So right now, well, so we're dominating a couple of neighborhoods right now. When we're starting to slow down, we'll pretty much go, I can put on Facebook or Google, I'll put out specials, things we're willing to do or, you know, call the actions that may be towards like a storm or like to say a Florida government grant or something that somebody can qualify for.
you know, veteran 15% discounts. I'll find some kind of call to action and I go on Facebook and Google and we'll pretty much spaz those out. And then once we get a hit or two, we'll go and close them. And then what we do is from that close, we will circle around that neighborhood and basically go door to door and just introduce ourselves, let them know we're doing this person's roof and this is what they got. So once we do that, I mean, we try to close 20 to 30% of a neighborhood.
Alex Alexic (31:29)
All right, so you do your marketing on your own or you have somebody on your own?
Alex Boerma (31:35)
Yep, I used to do marketing for companies, so I have a pretty big background in marketing.
Alex Alexic (31:39)
Mm-hmm. What did you work for? Who did you work for, my bad.
Alex Boerma (31:45)
So I worked for some pretty big roofing companies like Angie's Roofing, HD Roofing. I've worked for smaller companies, other regular marketing companies that were local. And then I did business development for random companies here and there. So not sure if they want me to say names, but I basically just help people with marketing back in the day. That was just like a little side hustle that I had.
Alex Alexic (32:11)
Oh, wow. That's impressive, right? I also have some marketing background. I work for like Sony, Axel Springer in Germany and stuff like those. So I also have some marketing experience, but I see so many people lately opening marketing agencies with zero experience and then charging high prices without having any background experience. Like how do you, I mean, look, everybody needs to make money, right? But you cannot go inside there and
Alex Boerma (32:18)
Okay, cool.
Alex Alexic (32:38)
have zero background and go in and charge like $3000, $2000, like, it just doesn't work. You didn't get where you were at.
Alex Boerma (32:47)
Yeah, it's a hot seat, man. Marketing, people, like if somebody said, you could convince anyone to give you $10,000 if that means that they're going to make $100, right? There's a sense of ROI there. And that's kind of what I think they're playing on is there's a lot of people that get kind of stuck. Like, oh, no, like, where's my next job going to come from? Or, whoa, how am I going to keep this business rolling, let alone doing a million or two million? Like, how am I going to get my next five jobs?
And I think unfortunately there are some companies out there that will kind of push that hot button and just kind of tell them, Oh, well, you know, for $3,000 or $5,000, we'll get you a hundred leads. And then in their mind, they go, well, if I got a hundred leads, I would just have to close 10 of them to make it worth the 3000, you know, and that's, that's kind of the button they play on. And I think that would be the issue because then where do those leads come from?
Alex Alexic (33:42)
Yeah, I mean, I really hate promising stuff, especially in marketing. I rather, so I always kind of tell people lately, I used to promise 10 roofing jobs when I was starting out. And then I realized how hard it is to get 10 roofing jobs when starting off. Right. You, as you know, we need to have this AI machine learn about our customer before it starts producing more and more. Once it learns enough, once it
Alex Boerma (33:48)
Yeah.
Alex Alexic (34:11)
once conversion goes through multiple times, right? So then I realized how stupid I was. And then I changed the entire selling call. I didn't promise anything, right? Yes, I will generate jobs and I will do my best to do so, but I don't want to guarantee anything, you know? It's a process. It takes time. Yeah, I rather, as I said, I rather under promise and over deliver than over promise and under deliver.
Alex Boerma (34:31)
Yeah, yeah, guaranteeing could be kind of tough.
Alex Alexic (34:41)
So what is your biggest concern that you, we are reporting the marketing space and you are in the roofing space as well. What is, again, this goes for marketing people who are in the roofing space. What is the normal price you think somebody should charge for their services when doing marketing for a company? Let's say they do Google ads for them.
Alex Boerma (35:04)
I'll tell you mine. I don't know if that's up to anyone. They can have their own considerations on what is fair and not fair, what they're trying to do, what their overhead costs are. Me, I'm willing to spend 10 to 15% of my gross revenue on marketing. So if I'm going to do a million dollars, I'm willing to spend a hundred, $150,000 in marketing, you know, Red Bull and people like that, they have like crazy 40, 50%, you know, cases of revenue that they spend on marketing. But
Alex Alexic (35:09)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Alex Boerma (35:32)
For me, if a program or software or something that you're using to generate leads is costing more than 15 or 20% of your gross income, it's probably time to figure some other routes out. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Try four or five things out, and then idolize and specialize in those things that are working better for you. And then when you can kind of see four or five different avenues of marketing, pinpoint the one that's the most successful and double down on it.
Alex Alexic (36:03)
course yeah that's smart and regarding the service fees let's say if you were instead of having a roofing company right now you decided to have a marketing company for roofers how much would you charge for your knowledge for your service at this time
Alex Boerma (36:03)
That's what I would do.
I've never been asked that before.
I know that I pay salesmen 10% of the gross. So if I could get somebody, yeah, that's a tough one. I don't know if it's something that I've ever really thought about. I would probably, each lead would have to be worth something. So it would either have to be a structure where you work hands-on with somebody and it's a monthly basis, or,
you create a funneling system that just generates leads in general, and then you just sell the leads at pop, you know, $100, $150. And you can sell bundles, maybe, I'll give you 10 leads for 800 bucks or something. You know, then that's a little bit more workable for roofers because they may have a certain set number that they have available, but they're not going to want to just give you $3,000 in the sense that maybe they'll get some deals in right. They would have to see something first. So if you're coming in,
Alex Alexic (37:04)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Boerma (37:20)
I would probably sell Leeds if I can guarantee that it was a lead, not that it's a close, but a person in need of a roof. I would probably charge $150 if it was one person, and then I would probably, if they were willing to share them between other roofers, $80, and then send it to two or three other roofers since they're getting three bids anyway.
Alex Alexic (37:40)
And if you had to charge them retainers, because I know many top companies work with retainers, for example, I heard, I don't know, also before anybody tells me that I'm spreading misinformation, I heard that a hook agency charges $10,000 a month. And there are some other companies such as Scorpion and Rufr Marketers charging somewhere between $2,000 and $5,000 a month. What do you think about that model?
Do you think that pricing is too much or too little? And for example, there is us, so I'll be open. We ask for $3,000 a month, but we combine Google Ads, AI, so chat bot technology where you teach the AI how to do everything, right? Pretty much we load your website on the AI bot, we teach him how to behave. We obviously make it sound as human as possible because you are, I mean, you know, you can train the bot.
to make it sound properly. And we have the call center that calls the leads. So we charge for that $3,000 a month. What do you think about these prices that are named and about our pricing and something like that? Because you have the marketing experience and you are a roofer. So I truly believe that would be beneficial for my marketing folks out there, right? And people who are looking for marketing services, right? And somebody who is expert in it should tell you that.
Alex Boerma (39:04)
I know people that spend 500 to a thousand a month in marketing, and I know some companies that are spending 60,000 a month in marketing. The biggest thing that matters is the ROI. If they're spending $60,000 in marketing, you best be pulling in like $600,000 a month in revenue, right? But I know that this specific company I mentioned has a 48% close rate. So even though they get about 400 leads, they're closing about 180 to 200 of them.
So for them to spend $60,000 makes sense. They can do that. But some people, they can't. If they're gonna spend $3,000 a month, it would probably wanna generate $30,000 in revenue to make sense, in my mind.
Alex Alexic (39:38)
Mm-hmm.
Right, right. So if you had to pick a perfect price for somebody that is offering marketing services, what would it be? What number when it comes to a retainer? Let's see.
Alex Boerma (40:02)
Oh, I don't know. It's really not my zone. I would have to kind of play with it and see what works and doesn't work. All I know from my side is marketing, I'm willing to spend 10 to 15%. So if something is bringing me, I don't know, 10 or $15,000 in profit, I'm willing to spend $1,500 on that to make that.
Alex Alexic (40:07)
Mm-hmm.
Alex Boerma (40:29)
So it would probably be something on a similar if you're if you know for a fact that you're bringing in a hundred leads than three thousands too cheap. Honestly I would go for more charge per lead or you know something where it's manageable and trackable because then you get those points where a hundred leads come in and a person may go well shit I only get I only closed five deals.
Alex Alexic (40:29)
Understood.
Alex Boerma (40:52)
too much to where they don't even know they have a hundred because they're not they're not ready for it they don't know and it's too much they have one guy that's supposed to run these leads and he can only run three a day so it really depends each refer is going to be different it depends on the infrastructure that they have if they have the men available you know by all means fill them up but if they if they're smaller you know son and
father company and they're doing one roof a week and that's good for them. I mean, they should probably be spending three to 400 a month in marketing and that'll do it for them, but you know, they got to know what their market and their product is.
Alex Alexic (41:31)
Yeah, okay, great. I think we have covered most of the topics, but is there anything you would like to talk about? Something that we missed. What is something that you think we missed in this show that we didn't talk about?
Alex Boerma (41:49)
Great question. I don't know. So far we've covered people, marketing, sales.
Alex Alexic (41:51)
Ha ha.
Alex Boerma (41:56)
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's pretty much it. I mean...
Alex Alexic (41:57)
Okay, so, right, of course. So I have this thing that I stole from, if you watch it like the diaries of the CEO, there's a podcast called that way. And what he does, he asks the previous guest to ask the question for the next guest. So first I'll ask you the question from the previous guest, which was,
which was from all or nothing construction, Willem Campbell, maybe you know him, maybe you don't, but he said, how did you get where you are now? That is the question. What did you do to get where you are now? It's a bit longer question, but I'll leave it up to you to decide how you are going to format it.
Alex Boerma (42:40)
Interesting.
I'll be candid. I basically worked for multiple companies. And I learned a little bit from each company and what was successful for them. And I made my own twist. You don't really have to reinvent the wheel. It's not like I didn't invent roofing. Roofing has been around forever. But I found a niche within the industry for myself by working for big companies.
and seeing what their successful actions were, and then just compounding those into my own successful actions. So for me, how I got here is I worked for four roofing companies over a couple of years, found out what was successful and not from them, and then I just replicated it on my own company.
Alex Alexic (43:31)
Of course, of course. So what would you be your question for the next guest, which is going to be next in here in five minutes. So we have two episodes back to back and this person, he has a technology, revolutionary technology and roofing that makes coating jobs 10 times faster. So I guess that's a tip on you to ask a great question for this, for the next person. What would be the question for him?
Alex Boerma (43:39)
Thank you.
Me, I'm big on policies. I think that you need policies and you need to initiate them right when a mistake happens. So maybe my question for him would be, what was a rememberable mistake that happened to him and what did he do to fix it?
Alex Alexic (44:19)
Of course sounds great. Okay, Alex. I think we covered most of the stuff the podcast will be live on Spotify Apple podcasts will be live on YouTube as well Alex Alexic roofing marketing where I post everything about podcasts roofing in general and You'll be also getting short clips if you wish to use it for your own promotion and if not, that's fine so hopefully you enjoyed the episode and hopefully you liked it here and
Alex Boerma (44:48)
Absolutely, no, thanks for having me. I was happy to be here
Alex Alexic (44:50)
Yeah, of course. Thank you so much, and we should maybe run it back in the future. Thank you Okay, okay, yeah
Alex Boerma (44:56)
Absolutely. Just let me know.