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Interested in conversations about the nature of reality, multidimensionality, truth, being, religion, spirituality, life, love, consciousness, and language?
Wondering how to thrive in an uncertain and rapidly changing world?
Do you want to learn about things you've never experienced or heard of?
If so, we might just be for you!
Wendy Frase 0:00
Welcome to Wake-Up Call for the Soul with Bill and Wendy. Hello Bill.
Bill Frase 0:06
Hey Wendy.
Wendy Frase 0:08
So, it's good to be with you here today again for our next conversation. And I'm super excited about this one. It seems very interesting to me. It's titled, are we living in a simulation? So I know that today, we're going to have a focus on what you often have said over the years, the fabricated world of human invention. So, I've heard you say that a lot. I'm intrigued by this idea. I think I buy into it, but I look forward to you talking more about the fabricated world of human invention, and are we living in a simulation?
Bill Frase 0:50
Yeah. I've been looking forward to this conversation for the podcast for quite some time, and this seems like the moment for it. And so in previous episodes, we've hinted around at this idea. You even brought up this word and this phrase of the fabricated world of human invention in a prior episode. And we've talked somewhat about the socially constructed nature of reality. We've talked about the nature of myth. My hope for this episode is that we're going to dig in even more into this idea of what is true, what is real, and what is our relationship to these things.
Wendy Frase 1:32
That sounds good, because I know, in the spirit of this podcast, since it is called wake up call for the soul, we always try to do our best to help listeners consider a different perspective. And you're big on considering that different perspective about the nature of the world and actually reality. So maybe should we start with just explaining or defining what you see, since you use this term fabricated world of human invention, well, what does fabricated mean to you? What is world, human and invention mean to you? Really?
Bill Frase 2:04
To start, I'll give a general definition that I came up with for this episode, for the fabricated world. Again, attempting to put my sense of a thing into words, the current definition for the fabricated world of human invention is everything that exists because of human perceptions, ways of being and actions that prioritize separation instead of unity. So if we break down each of those words within that phrase, fabricated, I chose that word very specifically because these are things that are made up, and the word fabrication oftentimes is defined as a lie. A fabrication is a lie. And so for me, the fabricated world of human invention is recognizing the fact that this world is built on lies, and the fundamental lie is the lie of separation, as we have said in episode after episode in this podcast. World, for me, is this idea of an all encompassing simulated reality.
Wendy Frase 3:09
So, world isn't even earth or universe in your perspective.
Bill Frase 3:14
No, world has to do with everything that people think, believe as being real or true for them.
Wendy Frase 3:27
Okay
Bill Frase 3:29
Human it's a reflection of what we might call the human condition, which is again defined by separation, all of the lies, all of the illusions that proceed from that root error of separation that human beings have been making similar kinds of errors over the millennia, and all of those errors are stemming from that singular error of separation.
Bill Frase 3:54
The fourth word invention. This is reinforcing the idea that nearly everything that everyone on Earth. Meaning human beings experiences is systematically being denied, ignored, filtered and distorted through ideas, frameworks, languages, systems and institutions that are human creations born from that original era of separation from Source, from self, from aspects of self, from all.
Bill Frase 4:22
Other terms that people might consider to be in the realm of Bill's fancy concept of the fabricated world of human invention. People might use the words the human condition, for example, although I don't think that they mean what I mean by what I'm saying. So,ballpark. False matrix, I've heard that used. Or one of the more ironic ones that people use is they'll call what I call the fabricated world of human invention, they'll call that the real world, which is so ironic and oxymoronic that I just kind of chuckle whenever I hear people say, well, that's just, that's real life, or that's the real world,
Wendy Frase 5:08
Right?
Bill Frase 5:09
And I think listeners are already seeing that. Bill is thinking something very different.
Wendy Frase 5:15
Well, I remember, even when we'd go away to a cabin in the woods for our vacation, it's easy to say, Oh, I have to go back to the real world on Monday because I have to go to work and you and you would always say to me, no, that's not the real world. And sometimes maybe inferring, even being in nature is more towards the real world than being in a workplace where we do have all these systems and and I like this word INVENTION too. It makes me think of facts and beliefs, and we're always telling ourselves these things that might not be true. So, we're inventing a lot of this in our minds, what we believe to be true, what we think are true. So that's what I think of when I think of invention.
Bill Frase 6:07
And it even involves feelings we fabricate or manufacture, the feelings, the emotions that help us to believe the simulation.
Wendy Frase 6:21
For an example, I might think that something brings me joy, when does it really?
Bill Frase 6:28
Or that someone makes you angry? But did they really? Is your anger shielding you from something else that's going on?
Wendy Frase 6:38
I suspect already, now that this is going to be a very deep conversation, and I'm already, I'm already trying to fit these things in a box, which really we probably shouldn't be doing Ttat we should be expanding. I should be expanding my mind, instead of categorizing and fitting this conversation in a box.
Bill Frase 6:59
Oh, but to your point, the fabricated world of human invention. It is the box into which we think everything fits, but everything that is doesn't fit in the box. The Box systematically denies, ignores, filters and distorts what is. In an earlier episode, I defined reality as what is. And in this episode, the claim that I'm making in this conversation, are we living in a simulation? Is that we are absolutely living in a simulation. My word for it is the fabricated world of human invention.
Wendy Frase 7:44
So you're already answering that question, yes?
Bill Frase 7:46
Yep, I've jumped ahead our listeners. If you just want to know if you're living in a simulation, yes, you are, and you can turn off now and go about your business.
Wendy Frase 7:53
Okay, boy, okay, well, first, before we dive into that, should we look at some characteristics of thefabricated world?
Bill Frase 8:01
I mean, I've already mentioned multiple times now this separation theme that is founded in this idea of separation.
Wendy Frase 8:09
So the fabricated world, you talked about, separation, disharmony, fear, lack, those things all seem negative. So that makes sense. Is there anything good in the fabricated world?
Bill Frase 8:29
I'll let you know when I find it.
Wendy Frase 8:31
Okay.
Bill Frase 8:33
Yeah, so we have separation. We have disharmony. In true unity, there is no disharmony. It doesn't mean that there isn't change. It's not about homogenization or everything being the same, but disharmony means that things are out of whack, that they're out of alignment, that the resonances between them are disharmonious, meaning that they are painful, discordant, unpleasant. And you could go to say they're untrue. They're not pretty, not beautiful, they are not entirely good, they're not entirely loving. So just a little more explanation on disharmony.
Bill Frase 9:17
Polarities: Once you create that separation, then you shift automatically into a world of polarities, black and white, good and bad, male and female, life and death, good guys and bad guys...
Wendy Frase 9:32
Rich and poor...
Bill Frase 9:33
Rich and poor.
Wendy Frase 9:33
These opposites, right?
Bill Frase 9:35
We have all of these, these, these separated continua, where we now have shifted into polarities and judgment about those polarities, and like we talked about in episode two, this is why we have the need for myth. If you have irreconcilable opposites, myths are the stories that tell us well, how did we reconcile these apparently irreconcilable opposites? Sacrifice, cost, loss, price. Something has to be paid in order to deal with the fundamental error.
Bill Frase 10:11
When we separate from what is one of the first reactions that human beings have, whether we are consciously aware of it or not, is fear, and this fear flows from the existential anxiety that comes from our understanding, because of our prioritization of perceptions of separation, that actual annihilation becomes a possibility in our minds, meaning that we can cease to exist, and that can look like death, but it can look like non existence, which is pretty terrifying to the human mind, the idea that I could just simply cease to exist, which, again, is a makes perfect sense. If you believe that separation is real, then you can simply cease to exist. So there's nothing to support your existence anymore, because you are disconnected from everyone and everything and even from yourself.
Bill Frase 11:00
Lack is just part of it, because if I'm part of everything, then I have access to everything. Once I separate, lack becomes part of the program. I see lack within myself, in my relationships, in my world, people tend to think of lack as material, but it can be I lack. There's something missing...
Wendy Frase 11:18
lack of love, lack of self confidence, lack of support,
Bill Frase 11:24
Relationships,community.
Bill Frase 11:25
And mimetic desire. We've talked about that before. Instead of me being connected to my true and deep desires as a unique being with in the framework of all of beingness, when I separate then I look to others to see what their desires are, instead of tuning in to my own deep desires, because I have separated myself from them through my mind, becoming elevated over my heart and my soul. I now look to others for the things that actually are mine, deeply and personally as an inherent aspect of my being. And of course, mimetic desire leads to all these not so wonderful outcomes, such as rivalry, violence, scapegoating, blame and sacrifice, loss, price, cost,
Bill Frase 12:16
And, of course, sacrifice we've already talked about it that's that's just baked into the fabricated world of human invention that without sacrifice, without trade offs and compromises, we don't think that we can reconcile these irreconcilable polarities. So in all of these things, instead of the gift economy that we talked about in the last episode with Source, what we have is the opposite of that, a market economy instead of a gift economy, where everything is offered as a gift out of love.
Wendy Frase 12:47
Well, two things come to mind as I'm listening to you here. First of all, I don't like this fabricated world of human invention. This sounds horrible. And second of all, maybe this is even much deeper than I realized, or at least your definition, because I sort of had this idea of, oh, this fabricated world of human invention. It's just stuff that's bad, stuff we make up, stuff we don't...stuff that separates us from source, as we talked about in the last episode, Source.
Wendy Frase 13:22
Is there any good? And I'm starting concerns of I always thought that people are inherently good, and I guess it's the world that changes us. Can we blame this fabricated world of human invention for all the bad stuff, because human beings are really just good people?
Bill Frase 13:49
I'd like to bring us back to a similar related concept, which is false matrix. So false matrix is very similar to this, and I think it gets to part of the point of what you're talking about. So matrix is another word for womb. And when we incarnate in this world, when we come into this world, in our mother's wombs, we are instantaneously assaulted by the fabricated world of human invention, because our parents carry it, whether they know it or not, our grandparents, all of our ancestors, going back 1000s of years, have carried this pseudo reality forward. Every one of us has inherited this false matrix from the moment we come into our mother's wombs, and that's what's available to us. We experience this assault of these conditions, these energetic conditions produced through human error, and then as little souls in our Mama's wombs, we reach out and we say, not with words, this sucks, and what, what am I going to do? And psychically, because we are all actually connected, the tiny little soul in the womb is saying, Okay, I I need protection from this. This is awful. This is horrific. I'm under assault. I need protection. And they start to pull from this false reality, all of the defense systems, all of the mechanisms, the ideas, the concepts, the energies that will build a wall around them that will encapsulate them in some type of armor to protect them from the awfulness of these conditions. They may pick it up from their mother. They may pick it up from the father. They may pick it up from their lineage. They may may pick it up from what's encoded in the DNA. They may pick it up just from the energies, the disharmonious energies flowing throughout this fabricated world, tiny souls will pick it up. And so we have inherited this. It's a really awful inheritance, but this is what we have taken on. But because everyone has a very similar inheritance, this is how it can act as a simulation, because everyone, because everyone has been traumatized in pretty similar ways. We have a world that we have inherited, and then, because we believe it to be true and real, we each, in our own ways, perpetually reinforce that false reality, that pseudo reality, that fabricated world for ourselves, individually, within our communities, within our groups and institutions, our families, within our systems.
Wendy Frase 16:51
And this is all we know, because, as you said, if we're affected by this false matrix from little soul in the womb. Well, that is an interesting point, and I do agree with a lot of what you said, because we do build up defense mechanisms, and I like to think that people are inherently good. We've just been corrupted by this world, and so this is kind of what the fabricated world is. We are all connected. I like what you said there, because what our ancestors have done has affected us as well. And then we grow up in this world, and we interact with other people who are in this matrix or who have this separation, we build up these walls. So I like that perspective, that analogy, as you're describing it, so I agree big time with this idea of separation.
Bill Frase 17:59
Right, and what is a wall? A wall is a material manifestation of a desire for separation, because if we are traumatized by separation, and if all we know is separation, then the only solution that we have is something that separates us from that which is causing us pain or discomfort.
Wendy Frase 18:18
And that's sort of what I understand this world of human invention to be, this fabricated world, because this isn't how it should be.
Bill Frase 18:28
This is how we're making it up. This is how we are continuing to make it up. This is, again, that's why I like the word fabrication for lie. But also it has to do with fabricating, making things. And invention is this idea that we make stuff up, we create things out of our minds.
Wendy Frase 18:50
Is this why you loved the movies the matrix?
Bill Frase 18:55
Yeah, big, big fan.
Wendy Frase 18:57
Do you want to talk a little bit more about the matrix for those listeners who haven't seen it?
Bill Frase 19:03
One of the thoughts I had in this episode was, well, maybe I should just share some quotes from the Matrix that I don't think are just cool storytelling. For me, I hear these things and I say, Yeah, that's true. So there's a scene where Neo meets Morpheus. Neo is the one, supposedly, according to Morpheus, Morpheus is like the prophet
Wendy Frase 19:27
Like the one who's going to save everyone?
Bill Frase 19:29
Yeah, he's the one who's going to save the world. But he doesn't know it yet. He doesn't believe this yet, but Morpheus believes he is the one, like the Messiah. And so when they meet during the lightning storm, Morpheus says the Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us, even now in this very room, you can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes, it is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. And then Neo says, what truth ?Morpheus: That you are a slave, Neo, like everyone else, you were born into bondage, into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch, a prison for your mind.
Wendy Frase 20:20
Well, that Matrix sounds like the fabricated world, and we're all in it right now.
Bill Frase 20:25
To me, when I read that those lines from that movie, that rings to me is absolute truth, and there will be people who will say, I'm guessing some people be like, Well, I'm not a slave. Aren't we? Aren't we giving our life force to something that doesn't love us, that doesn't give a damn about whether we exist or not? We're giving our life force to systems and institutions that claim to do one thing and yet inevitably and always do nearly the exact opposite of their claimed purpose, right? Are we living in a simulation? There's smart people around the world. I've seen YouTube videos and people on Reddit asking, Are we in a simulation? I'll say it again, yeah, we're absolutely living in a simulation. We are living in a neural interactive simulation, which, oh, that's another line from the Matrix. So, Morpheus to Neo in the scene about the construct when they're meeting in this wide space, it's news first time entering into a computer program after he's his body has been released from its pod, which, by the way, is a womb. Oh, and that womb is sucking his life force too. So the Matrix works on so many levels. Okay, Morpheus and Neo in the construct Neo: This isn't real? Morpheus: What is real? How do you define real? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain. Morpheus then turns on the television. This is the world that you know, the world as it was at the end of the 20th century. It exists now only as part of a neural, interactive simulation that we call the matrix. You've been living in a dream world, Neo.
Wendy Frase 22:19
Okay, wait a minute. Maybe I'm having an aha moment. So when you say, Yes, we're living in a simulation, I immediately go to computer program, meaning we're not even humans. We're some something else. Whereas when you say, Are we living in a simulation? No, we're still human beings, right? It's just we're caught up in this matrix, fabricated world,
Bill Frase 22:53
Yeah, but we're living in a simulation.
Wendy Frase 22:55
Right. But I think for myself, when I hear simulation, and this is the problem with language, too, I immediately think I'm not even a human being.
Bill Frase 23:03
That's not what I mean, although our humanity has been significantly degraded, minimized, limited within this false matrix, this false womb, this pseudo reality. So we are mere shadows of our true selves within the matrix.
Wendy Frase 23:21
Okay, but maybe I'm getting to the point where maybe I can agree with your answer to are we living in a simulation? Because I'm understanding what you're saying now.
Bill Frase 23:35
If you think about the pseudo reality that human beings are living within on this planet right now, it's programmed. It's pre programmed that there are programs and sub routines running all around. They're running within our own minds, within our own bodies, reinforcing this false reality. Then we interact with other people. We...these programs, or you could call them resonance fields. They interact with each other, therefore further reinforcing the idea that all of this false fake stuff is real. Are we living within a single computer? No, it's more like we've got all of these really disharmonious parallel processing units that are generating this kind of these disharmonious pseudo realities. But they when they interact together, they reinforce each other, saying, Oh yeah, you know what separation is, real. You're bad, I'm good. Whatever the programs are that are running, everyone's running these things.
Wendy Frase 24:30
It's almost like a comparison to AI. I'm AI and you're asking me something, or you're making a statement, and I'm kind of downloading all my information that I have over the years, trying to make sense of it, and spitting out something else. Because even though I'm not a computer, I'm wired to take all my programs and beliefs and facts and interactions with people to respond to you in a way that then you'll respond back to me. And we're all running these simulations and these programs and all of these different things are part of the fabricated world of human invention.
Bill Frase 25:15
Yeah, we have this. And of course, in the matrix movies, the so called Enemy of the rebels is what they call AI Artificial Intelligence. These are machines that have taken over the world, that have put people into these birth pods and suck them for their heat energy and electrical impulses to fuel their civilization, and they keep them locked, pacified, within this false matrix reality.
Wendy Frase 25:42
Well, I think of even when I do a search of a question nowadays and the little AI comes up thinking like they're processing all these different things. And we do the same as human beings. We're processing all the feedback, all the separation, all the interactions with people, all the rules and institutions, and we're just going about our days.
Bill Frase 26:04
So Morpheus has a scene with Neo where they're in the agent training program, and Morpheus says to Neo, "The matrix is a system. Neo, that system is our enemy. When you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters, the very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged, and many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."
Bill Frase 26:38
Now that's a strong statement. For me, he's making a point in the in the script of the movie. I don't consider other human beings to be my enemies, but I do see all of us, all of the time, fighting tooth and nail to protect and defend the system, the system of lies built on separation that sucks us of our life force that we willingly give our life force to, through our distractions, through our addictions, through our thoughts and feelings, through our resistance, whatever you want to call it, and it's our own life force that keeps it going when enough people unplug from the system that is the matrix, or the fabricated world of human invention, it will simply fall apart. But the only reason it can exist is because it's like a mindless, parasitic life form that just it provokes us to give it our life force, and then we give it our life force and wonder why things still suck.
Wendy Frase 27:42
Yes, that sounds like the world that we currently live in, unfortunately, and that is why we are trying to promote something bigger and better. But I guess the first thing is to sort of open our eyes to what what is going on around us and how we can do better.
Bill Frase 28:07
The podcast is called wake up call for the soul. So this isn't the kind of thing that I'm happy to report.
Wendy Frase 28:14
Yeah.
Bill Frase 28:15
This isn't the kind of thing that I'm like, oh, we should be so happy that we're living in a pseudo reality. That's not my objective here, but as I in my own practice, have been repeatedly attempting to reunify with source, with what I might call divine reality, the contrast between what I experience from source within myself and what I experience in this fabricated world, the gap and the gulf continues to widen, and so I feel like episodes like this may be important for people to start to question, to wonder, am I feeding something that is not good? Am I giving my life force to things that are actually not in harmony with truth? With reality?
Wendy Frase 29:14
And are we just going to continue to buy this reality and promote it? Or are we going to wake up and step away and turn towards something better?
Bill Frase 29:27
Yeah, I mean this is the lie that we talked about with these myths, the myths of why the world is the way it is. We have bought the lie that this is the best possible reality. And what I'm hoping in this episode people may get the sense of, not only how awful this pseudo reality is, but also how it has nothing to do with real truth, with real reality. And that we as human beings do have the ability to choose something different, better, other than what has been presented to us as the only option.
Wendy Frase 30:13
Because a lot of us just feel that, well, I'm just going to choose to be a good person, I'm just going to love people. And I think that perhaps you are saying that's not enough, because we're still a part of this fabricated world. We're still part of this simulation.
Bill Frase 30:34
Like we've talked about before, there are different kinds of loves. If I'm going to say that I'm going to love people within this corrupted field of awfulness, if I'm going to attempt to express love in ways that are acceptable within this system of lies, then you're probably feeding the system. If a person were to say, Well, okay, they talked about this other love in here, this one that has the potential not to be corrupted or corruptible. And I desire to experience this unity with source, and I desire to be a channel for that love, that power, that light in this world, to help change this world, to help invite other people to play along with that. Then, yeah, I'm all for that.
Wendy Frase 31:32
So does this then go back to your practice being plugged into source?
Bill Frase 31:38
Yeah, because the only way I know to become the kind of person that I want to be in this world as an invitation for others to wake up, for others to choose a new, different, better, more expansive reality is for me to do my best to act as what we would call an instrument or a channel for source. Instead of reinforcing the pseudo reality that I am separate from source, I am separated from aspects of myself. I am separated from everyone and everything. What source is inviting me to be and do is to express these possibilities for we could call it divine unity. Divine union, wholeness, unconditional love. I feel called to the best of my ability, however imperfectly, because people who know me know that I do not embody this reality perfectly, but that's what I'm striving for. That's what I'm going for, because I know that the only way that I can actually invite people into a new reality is to embody that new reality to the best of my being, and the only way I know to do that is by communing with source, with source's power of unconditional love, which has the ability to overcome all separation, all lies, all illusions, all fabrications, false matrix, the whole thing.
Wendy Frase 33:05
Yeah, this has all been very interesting, because I know that we have talked about before that language is tricky, but sometimes just to mentally put into these ideas, I like that you have created this idea of The fabricated world of human invention, and have put it so in words, because I often can go back, oh, that's the fabricated world. That's not the real world. As you say, the real world isn't real. So now I think of it as the fabricated world, and then even adding the fabricated world of human invention, because source does not want it this way. I also like at the end here, you've talked about that hope, because there is a different way. I think we're just trying to point out, what is the fabricated world of human invention? How are we caught in this so called matrix? So we're in it. What can we do now that is different? So sometimes it is helpful to have these language, these words, to sort of latch on to, to help understand these concepts better. So I thank you for that. I have appreciated this conversation, and I do still have hope. I do see a better future and hope that we can all unplug from this matrix and move away from the fabricated world to what really is the real world.
Bill Frase 34:30
Yeah, and it's so funny because they have lines in the matrix about unplugging. It's very early on that Choi says to Neo, Hey, man, it seems like you need some R and R, you just need to unplug and and the truth is, is that we are plugged into the matrix, but instead of us getting power from it, it's actually sucking our life force from us every time that we reinforce that false reality. And we don't even know we're doing it, we wonder why we feel tired, why we feel drained. We're plugged into it, and that's why I'm promoting this idea of plugging into source, of taking our plug and saying, Hmm, no fabricated world, I am unplugging from you, and I'm going to plug myself into source. And because source is a limitless source of power, literally a divine power, source for the transformation of our beings, for our actual empowerment, so that we don't have to be slaves to the system any longer.
Wendy Frase 35:31
Well, Bill, you've given us a lot to think about today, and myself included, even though I've heard these terms from you over the years. So I appreciate this conversation. I hope that the listeners have gotten something out of it, and it's been a pleasure speaking with you.
Bill Frase 35:46
It's been my pleasure too. I have the same hopes that listeners actually get something out of this that can help them with their real lives, absolutely.
Wendy Frase 35:53
Until next time.
Bill Frase 35:54
Until next time.
Bill Frase 35:56
Thank you so much for listening to wake up call for the soul with Bill and Wendy, we hope you'll join us next time.