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Host Lawrence Flowers welcomes author and father Al the Great to discuss navigating divorce beyond legalities, focusing on emotional healing, patterns, and rebuilding with purpose through faith and wholeness. Al explains “counterculture and wholeness,” blending spirituality and psychology, and urges men to follow behavioral “breadcrumbs,” do an “autopsy” of the marriage, set boundaries, and stop performing masculinity. They talk about identity rooted in God rather than roles like husband or job, with Lawrence sharing how losing his marriage and job contributed to depression. Al frames the fruit of the Spirit as a “dashboard” for alignment, encourages suffering appropriately, and advises against rushing into new relationships until healed and independent. They close with hope, purpose, and Al’s books on recognizing and pursuing wholeness.
00:00 Welcome to Real Talk
01:10 Meet Al the Great
02:19 Wholeness Over Brokenness
03:39 Why This Podcast Exists
04:30 When the Marriage Ends
06:36 Patterns and Breadcrumbs
12:39 Healing Through Inner Work
15:52 Boundaries and Real Peace
17:54 Men and Emotional Healing
20:31 Identity Built on God
23:33 Losing Marriage and Job
27:10 Obstacles And Purpose
27:49 Healing After Divorce
28:17 R4 Coping And Freedom
29:57 Real Value And Alignment
32:20 Fruit Of The Spirit
33:54 Three Truths Framework
36:52 Kingdom Versus Culture
38:01 Ready To Love Again
43:53 Wholeness Books Breakdown
48:15 Advice For New Divorce
50:38 Final Charge Get Whole
Creators and Guests
What is Real Talk: Men, Divorce & Rebuilding?
Real Talk: Men, Divorce & Rebuilding is a podcast for men navigating life after separation, heartbreak, and major life transitions. Through honest conversations and real stories, we explore divorce, co-parenting, rebuilding confidence, finding love again, and growing into better fathers, brothers, and husbands. This is a space where men are heard, supported, and reminded they’re not alone. Whether you’re newly divorced, years removed, or still healing, this show exists to help you move forward with clarity, strength, and purpose. Your life did not end when your marriage ended. Now it's time to do the work so your "next" doesn't deal with the same things as your "ex."
03 - Real Talk - Al The Great
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[00:00:00]
Speaker: Welcome back to a Real Talk where men have real conversations about real life and when we walk away stronger than we came in. This is a place designed to gain clarity, find your voice, and to start to find your healing process no matter where you are in this journey. I am your host Lawrence Flowers, and today's episode we're going to hear.
Real insight and what it takes to navigate divorce, not just the legal side of things, but the emotional weight, the impact of life, and rebuilding with a purpose. If you're going through divorce, coming out of a divorce, trying to figure out what's next. This conversation is [00:01:00] here for you to give you a perspective, encouragement, and it remind you that you're not alone.
Let's get into it. It is time for real talk. Today I have a special guest with me, Al the Great. He's an author, he's a father, he's an awesome man of God. Come on. Welcome al the great to this podcast Al, introduce yourself.
Speaker 2: Well thank, thank you for that introduction, man. Like you said, my name is Al the Great, I'm your Neighborhood Counter Coach list.
And I'm just, all things counterculture and wholeness, you know culture has normalized cruelty and shame. And when I say counterculture, we are trying to normalize kindness, good stewardship and wholeness. This is, you know, wholeness is that complete gospel. That is what Jesus died and suffered for, you know, and, and.
You know, I've always, I always felt like it was, you know, since I, I found out, felt like it was odd that we as believers, we live [00:02:00] a life according to like a portion of the gospel versus that whole gospel. Mm-hmm. You know, that living a life of completeness versus the focus on just, just salvation. You know, how can we be whole and complete here so we can treat each other better and we can have a better experience?
So that's what I mean when I talk about wholeness.
Speaker: Amen. That sounds really good, because you think of this sometimes in this Christian Wall, like you said, we focus on salvation. Yeah. But we're more than just that. Yes. You know, loving your neighbor as yourself. Yeah. You know, and God does want us to be whole.
You know, even Jesus said, you know, I want you to prosper and your souls prosper as well. Yeah. So we're not supposed to live this. Broken peace life. We're not, there are times when we are broken, but that's not supposed to be our total life. Yeah. You know, sometimes going back to our subject of divorce, you know, sometimes we feel broken, but that's just a phase, not your finality, you know, it's not a permanent state, it's just part of the journey.
You know, I'm broken today, but God broke me or this situation broke me, but [00:03:00] it's 'cause it's gonna make me better and I'm going to be made whole even after this. Situation. Yeah. After I come out of this situation, I'm gonna be whole because I got God and God is gonna make my life whole, you know, as I go through this journey.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You shouldn't live in a a state of. Continuous brokenness.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker 2: Like stuff happens. Life happens, you know, but you shouldn't be in a state of brokenness.
Speaker: Correct. You know what you said a good thing. This is just a state of being. It's a your current state. Yeah. But it's not permanent. Yep. You know, this is part of the process.
The brokenness is part of the process. So that is really good, man. And I thank you for coming. I'm gonna tell you, it's crazy. Like we've been living down the street from each other for a while now. Yeah. And didn't even know it. We just happened to walk into Walmart at the same time. We both needed some bread and milk, and then all of a sudden now we are here talking about dealing with divorce and rebuilding as men.
Um, and what was the catalyst, just to let you know, the catalyst of this podcast or this podcast as a [00:04:00] whole was I saw a post online. You know, a young lady stated that, why is it that men are always vilified during divorce? Yeah. And one of the things that came up was, well, a lot of times the men's story is never heard.
So hence the reason why I wanted to start this broadcast of real talk so they could hear the men's story. Yeah. You know. Not all men or dogs do. Dogs exist, yes, but not all of us are, you know? So this is the talk about the story of our divorce rebuilding and finding love again. So today, let's start out with divorce.
The destruction of the home, you know for you, what was it like when you realized that, you know, the marriage was over?
Speaker 2: I, it, it is funny. So I, I, I pay attention to patterns. And I, I used to cut the grass. You know, I, I would do the outside work, you know, also did some inside stuff, but I really hated cutting grass.
I really hate doing [00:05:00] outside work. I'm, I'm not even gonna lie, I, I do not meet the stereotype of most, most. You know what, what, what people think of men. I, I don't like doing outside work. I don't like fixing stuff. You know, I'll, I'll do what I have to do, especially fixing stuff for YouTube, uni University.
Mm-hmm. I don't know what I would be without YouTube University. Mm-hmm. Like for real? Mm-hmm. So I would, I would normally cut the grass and there came a point. Where she started cutting the grass.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: And you know, you know, I made light of it and I joked about it. And, um, I sent a picture to her, her dad. And, but, but, but deep down then I was like, it is a done deal.
Speaker: Yeah. It's
Speaker 2: like, because, so when a, when a woman starts pre preparing to live without you, you know, it is, it is done. It is, it is a done deal. So you, you know, that doesn't mean that the, the marriage is, is over. You still can work on it. I can still continue to work on it, but I, I knew it was over then.
Mm-hmm. But, you know, with our [00:06:00] marriage it was a little different. Mm-hmm. You know, our marriage was, was over before it started, you know, for 11 years we were watering and feeding a dead thing.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: So, you know. It was, it was just a lot of effort trying to make it work, but it was, it, it really never worked.
Speaker: Gotcha. And you know, that sound, that story sounds a little bit like someone that I spoke to before about, you know, they were married more or less for the kids. Yeah. And then after a while that wasn't enough for it, you know, it was just like, eh, I mean, you know, there, his divorce was a sense of relief.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Um. Okay. And so patterns, so sorry. And you know, I, now that you say that, I can sit back and think about and reflect on what was going on with me and my ex. And you are absolutely right. There were patterns secret bank accounts. Yeah. There were different things that weren't who we were Yeah.
That she became, and it was just like. Wow. Okay. And I tried to work on it, tried to make it work, [00:07:00] tried, you know, everything I could. 'cause my thought process was, you know, we can fight through anything. You know, nobody's cheating, nobody's um, abusive. So I feel like anything is possible.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Whereas I guess she had started to check out before we checked out.
You know, so, um, as it relates to the emotional piece of things, um, what were, what were your emotional feelings once you got to the point where, okay, it's time to sign papers.
Speaker 2: Can we go back to the, the patterns for a minute?
Speaker: Oh yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2: So I, um. You know, I think we're, we're gonna talk about this more.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: But the, going through this process of divorce, like it, it caused me to take such a deep dive and gain so much understanding about myself, about humans, about, you know, about. The Bible, like everything I, God really downloaded and me and God spent a lot of time in the lab, [00:08:00] hence, you know, three, four books I've written.
Mm-hmm. So we spent a lot of time in the lab and so I have been developing this, this framework called Pneumococci Praxis Theory. Okay. Which, which. It is a mixture between, so numa is the breath, you know, word life and si is, is psychology. So it's, it's mixing spirituality and psychology for everyday practice.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker 2: So I think one of the things we get wrong as believers is we approach the enemy and the spiritual realm. We pray, we fast, we we do all these things. That is really important. But the enemy is a spiritual being using psychology to make a spiritual impact.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker 2: So if you don't fight him with psychology, because we, we think generational curses are, are more spiritual than psychological.
Mm-hmm. Generational curses are often just our patterns. Mm-hmm. It's our [00:09:00] behaviors that we pass down that I kids see. Your kids see you drink your kids. See, you see see you use drinking as a coping skill, so they develop the same thing. Mm-hmm. It's not so much spiritual than it is just like psychological habits.
Mm-hmm. And often we think, going back to the patterns, we think patterns and behaviors just come out of nowhere. Like, we just like that that person just snapped. You know? Or, or they just did that, you know, they just did this outta nowhere. But if you, if you followed the, the breadcrumbs
Speaker: mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: It didn't come from nowhere.
You know, law of cultivation, you know, every, every process, everything we do if you have that thought enough time, it's cultivating something, it's a pattern that is building.
You just have to know what, what that pattern is and try to stop it before it, you know, it shows up in your behavior. And, and if we just gotta follow the breadcrumbs mm-hmm. You know, within your own life when, you know, looking at others, you know, these behaviors just don't come out of like nowhere [00:10:00] like we think they do.
So just, just follow the breadcrumbs that that'll teach you a lot. But that's one of the things I recognize.
Speaker: Cool. And it goes back to, I hope I'm quoting it right. Your thought. Let's see. It starts off as a thought, and then there's is an action, and then it's a behavior. And you, you, you are very right because nothing you do just came outta the air.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: You thought about it first. You know, um, guys who, um. If you want to start working out first, you gotta have a mindset of I'm gonna go to the gym. Yeah. And then as you get that in your mind, your actions are gonna follow. So that is true though, as it relates to patterns and your thoughts. So that's why even the Bible talk about being careful of your thought processes.
Yep. You know, he. Talks about in Philippians thinking on whatever is just whatever is good report, whatever things are honest, more true. 'cause he realized that if you continue to think on negative,
Speaker 2: yeah.
Speaker: You gonna have negative outputs. So, but the reverse is true as well. [00:11:00] If you constantly thinking on positive, you gonna have a positive output.
Um, a saying that you show up on social media all the time, a negative mine never produces a positive output.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: So it's always controlling what you put it in, first of all. Um, that's why it's so important that you be careful what you listen to online. Listen to the right podcast. Um, watch the right videos because guess what?
Your life is gonna pattern what you continue to feed yourself, um, even when it comes to studying the world of God. The more you study the word of God, it pushes out those negative thoughts. 'cause you're focusing on what God is focused on and not necessarily all this negativity. Therefore, you'll walk in positivity.
And then also part of my healing process was reading positive books. Guess what? I had more positive thoughts.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Because I was feeding myself positive things, and then I started to have a more positive outlook on life because man, the, we'll talk about it [00:12:00] later, but the depression was real. Real. Yeah.
You know, I went through depression for about a year and a half, but as I continued to read, as I continued to focus on positive things, what good can happen, um, better in myself, um, I started feeling better.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: And then also things got better in my life. The marriage didn't heal. No, but I healed.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: And that's what's the most important part of healing yourself.
Speaker 2: And going back to the, what you said about the, the healing process. The healing process for me was, you know, I had to do a autopsy of our marriage. You know, I had to be a historian and go back and really look at. Her behavior, my behavior, our behavior together, and really figure out what work, what, what I did, what she did, what was my responsibility, you know, my, my mindset, how we really got here.
Mm-hmm. Because it's, it is a, [00:13:00] I think the devil does a masterfully job of getting us to not go internal.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker 2: We try to distract ourself. We try to do as much as possible, watch Netflix for six hours, like do everything we possibly can to not go internal where, but that's where the, that's where the real work is.
Like, you gotta be able to go internal and really think about what happened, who you are. You know, I am a firm believer that no one in this world should know you better than you know yourself. And in order to do that, you have to do that inner work. So you know the process of doing that inner work so you don't end up having the shame and the, you know, the other stuff that comes with it.
You picking apart your, your decisions is you have to get outta that emotional brain and get into that logical brain. So I realized my, my brain goes through, you know, a certain pattern. I, I reframe, refocus, reflect, and [00:14:00] respond. So it helps me go through and think about things and navigate without the emotional handcuffs, you know, I'm able to actually learn something from, from what I went through.
So, just, just went through that, that whole process, thinking about how, how did I get here? How did I, you know, what, what did I do? You know, how did I create some of these situations? Because often through the healing process is you have to forgive yourself. People, people, you know, we like to blame other people, but there is always some responsibility for both parties in any relationship breaking up.
Because as as me and we've been taught so many things, it's like a falsehood. You know, I used to, I used to remember living by that, that quote that A happy wife as a happy life. And that will get you in so much trouble. It will get you in so much trouble because you end up apologizing for things you didn't do, and you end up letting [00:15:00] things go, you know, thinking that you're keeping the peace and not expressing yourself, but really you, you creating your own prison.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker 2: You're, you're teaching this person how to treat you, you know, boundaries are self-care, you know. This is self-love. So having boundaries and, and telling someone when they've, when they've wronged you is just, it's just part of the process. You know, all conflict is not bad. You have to have some conflict, you have to have some communication.
So the healing process is really about just. Just going deep.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like spending time with myself and not letting myself be distracted and I found out a lot.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Then those moments you do find out a lot about yourself and you definitely hit on something that I was definitely guilty of and it was letting things go.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: That to keep the peace and you are, oh my goodness, you man. Where were you at when I was going through because it was like. I'll allow stuff to happen [00:16:00] and I'm just like, you know what? I'm not gonna say anything about it because I want things to be peaceful. Yeah. We didn't argue, but the peace, I didn't have peace within myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: And then eventually you are sitting here dying on the inside because for the sake of peace. But you yourself don't have peace. No. And peace is found within yourself. Yeah. You know, so thank you so very much for bringing that up because I'm gonna definitely take that on my next journey because truth of matter is my journey is definitely not over, you know the Bible says not good that man be alone.
It is not good that Lawrence be alone either. So this is definitely a temporary state. Um, but it is so very true. I can see myself in that, where a lot of times where I should have said something, but for the sake of peace I said, eh, I'm just going to, you know, let it go. And it just kept festering, festering and festering.
And, and I think for me, that made the divorce even harder because, wait a minute, I was sitting here allowing things to go for the sake of peace. [00:17:00] You still leaving, you know, and it's one of those situations. At a minimum if she still chooses to leave. At least she knew how it felt during these different stages in our marriage.
Yeah, so definitely holding that stuff in, I think made my divorce journey that much more difficult. So guys, I would say listen to them if. Say it respectfully 'cause you ain't trying to end marriages today. But you know, find a way to, to discuss how you feel versus putting yourself in your self-inflicted prison because then if you do have to go through healing process, that's one less piece of baggage you have to deal with.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, so let's see. Why do you feel it's important that men should heal after divorce?
Speaker 2: One of the things I think that that ties both of that, what you said before, that healing process and why we should heal is understanding that, you know, the Bible talks about no one can enter a strong man's house unless first they [00:18:00] bind a strong man.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: We as strong men have not been bound in chains and ropes. We've been bound in lies and, and you know, mistruths.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: You know what it means to actually be a man. Mm-hmm. What it means to actually be a husband and a father. And we've been performing masculinity versus walking in it. And once you get past that, it is so much easier to heal.
You know, Jesus didn't come to just. Bring us the bread and, and sacrifice himself. He also came as, as to be, to show us how it, what it means to live as a human, the right way. You know, he's all, he was God on earth, but he also came to show us how to live out this experience. And so much of being a man is that we are taught that.
Talking about our emotions is weakness, you know? If, you know, if I, if I tell her how I feel and if we get too, too [00:19:00] deep in this conversation, then she gonna call me sassy. Mm-hmm. It's like, yeah. Like, and, and you, you like, and we, we've, we've been taught that the only, the, some of the only expressions of like masculinity is anger, you know, dominance, you know, sexual desire.
And not understanding that Jesus had the duality of lion and lamb.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Had surrender and strength might and mercy. Mm-hmm. And this is the duality that we are supposed to live in as men. Mm-hmm. It's not just nurturing is not just, it is not a, a feminine thing. Mm-hmm. Like me and our nurturers too.
Mm-hmm. I think I heard Maurice say that last, last podcast. Yeah. We that is going to help with that healing process so much because you are going to be able to legitimately heal instead of trying to perform healing. You know, it's like, it's like in your garden, you have these weeds and you just, you just spraying [00:20:00] them green so you look good and you look healed, and you look right.
Mm-hmm. Versus. Actually having, you know, being a fruit or a tree that's gonna bear some real fruit.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: So, you know, you gotta get past that when we talking about that, that healing process. Mm. And again, don't, don't be afraid to go, to go deeper.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: I, I think of. Part of the healing and part of like the, the miseducation of, of humans is it's a misalignment and identity.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: You know, this is how we get back to that, that wholeness piece. Wholeness is the, the alignment with God's original design, unique, complete, and grounded and divine values. So the, I I think of wholeness, I mean, I think of identity in three levels. You have your personal, social and your divine.
Culture has miseducated us, and we are, we have been trying to identify ourselves with personal or social. Mm-hmm. You know, and this is, this is what really helped me heal.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: [00:21:00] As a father, I, I wanted to be a father since I was like five years old.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, my mom was on drugs, you know, I remember, you know, us getting kicked out and, you know me climbing back through the window to get back in, you know, the house.
And then she left to go to go get more, more drugs. And my mom was an amazing, strong woman and she eventually won that fight, but I remember at that time I remember I can do this better. I, I, I can do this better. I wanted my own family. I wanted my my own wife, all these things. And the Bible talks about how the you know, we get the desires of our heart.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: I was, I, God gave me the desires of my heart then, but I didn't wait for God to fulfill desires of my heart. I did. Because I was so focused on the, the social roles and the personal roles, and I wanted to build my, my own support system. And when you build your life according to social and personal, you are building on shifting [00:22:00] sands.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: You will lose a job. You, you know, your kids might go get older and they don't like you, or they might go off to college and, and that. Building your identity there causes you to go to season. To season. You have to refine yourself.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: I thought of myself as a, a husband, as a father. So when I wasn't a husband and I was a, I felt like I was a father part-time.
Like it, it really, it really shifted how I knew myself. Mm-hmm. And then I realized you have to build your identity on something that is concrete.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker 2: Who God says you are. Light of the earth, salt to the salt of the world, you know, a little Lord and angels. That is something that will never change. And then once you build your, your social and your personal on top of that, and they are in a line there, you don't have that internal tension.
You know, when you lose your job or you get divorced, you don't have that such a huge shift. You know, I still have a firm [00:23:00] foundation and I just need to build my, I'm no longer a husband. But I'm still a child of God and I need to build on top of that, on this is the man I am right now. And that makes it so much easier to heal.
And then when you have those big changes, you're not starting from zero. You're starting from, you know, 90 or 80, right? And that, that makes it a lot easier.
Speaker: Sir, where were you a year ago? You don't, y'all don't understand how great these nuggets are that he's dropping right now, because that is so very true.
And the crazy thing is, um, and which Al didn't know. I lost my marriage and my job at the same time.
Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Like literally, um, I was working with a company and they had a mass layoff and I was moving out in April late April, and they laid me off early April. So I'm like Jesus what, what, what's going on here?
Like, I'm like, [00:24:00] okay, first the marriage that was bad enough as it is, and then I will never forget that day my boss. And to this day to to this day, even my new job, I get nervous when my boss say, Hey, you got a minute. 'cause I'm still traumatized by that statement. You got a minute?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker: So she said, you got a minute?
I said, sure, go on the Zoom's call. And she's crying like, I'm like, okay, what's wrong with my boss? What's going on here? You know, everything is good. I just got, matter of fact, they were. Promoting me to do some, some more stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: Then all of a sudden she's like, yeah, um, we gotta let you go. Um, we having, we laying off I think like 700 people and unfortunately you one of the 700.
I'm just like, um, for, for real. Like, God, really? So my marriage is over now. Matter of fact, I'm moving into, can we finally fi finalize the separation paperwork?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: We just finalized that. Got this new apartment, you know, gotta have furniture, dah, dah, dah. And I'm losing my job. I like, like you gotta be playing a joke on me.
So, but. [00:25:00] That what kind of threw me in a spiral depression. But what you said is so very true. 'cause my identity had been so much on being a husband, being a provider, being a scrum master, that was the role I had at the company I was working for. That had become my identity and all that was taken away. Um, and I went, like I said, I went through this spiral and I knew that I was a child of God.
Yeah. You know I'm an elder at a church, you know, so forth and so on. But, and even that, my title. It shouldn't even be what is the the foundation. Yeah. But what God, who I am in God. So that is so very true. And then I said it to other guys as well. Um. These things that people can give you, they can take it away as well.
Speaker 2: They can,
Speaker: but you know what? God has given us a free gift that he's not gonna take away, and I love what you said. Let that be your foundation. When everything else fails, when people turn their backs on you, he said, I would never leave you nor forsake you. You know, all these people have the [00:26:00] ability to leave or forsake you.
Yeah, because they have free will. And people choose to use their free will as they so choose to. But when you have that sure foundation, okay, you can take world, you can take what you got. But you can't take my God. You can't take my joy. Yeah. You know, because you didn't give me my joy. And I think a lot of times people con and I, I say I was one of those, well confuse joy and happiness.
But the truth of the matter is you can have, you can have joy without happiness because happiness happens when things happen to line up. But joy is, is goes past that. It's something that God's gives. You have in God. You can have that peace of God which surpasses all understanding and that will keep your heart and mind.
That way you don't, you know, jump off the cliff. Yeah. You don't give up on life. This is just a setback, or as Denniston said, it's just a stepping stone. And the truth of the matter is build up these stepping [00:27:00] stones because you're going somewhere. That that is, that is definitely something to think about too.
You know, every time, oh, just one more obstacle. Just one more obstacles. But because I'm going somewhere and the enemy doesn't fight anybody who doesn't have purpose. So maybe sometimes look at your obstacle as, you know what the enemy's trying to fight by purpose. And a lot of times we get distracted because.
Of the of divorce. Okay, now I feel like my purpose is gone. No, your purpose is not gone. Your purpose is still there. Now, your purpose for being in her life maybe changed, but your purpose, the purpose that God has designed you for is not gone anywhere. And to give a little insight, you know a lot of men feel they're, they're drowning in this season, but the scripture lets us know in Psalm 1 47, it reads, he heals the broken hearted and buys up the wounds.
So he's going to heal you and you're gonna be whole once again, once you get through the healing process.
Speaker 2: And it, and there is a. You know, the Bible, the Beatitudes talks about, [00:28:00] and the Bible in general talks about like there is a appropriate way to suffer.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: If I, if I learned nothing else, if throughout this, throughout these seasons, these mini seasons after my divorce.
While, while the, while after the divorce, I felt like a weight, initially I was angry. Mm-hmm. Like I was, I was upset. I was, I had to like, I had to take a walk when she said it, you know, said it. During therapy, I had to take a walk and I was like, I was ready to people, my neighbors were talking to me and, and just being neighborly.
Mm-hmm. I was like, just like, I was like, stop talking to me. Mm. Mm-hmm. I was so upset. Mm-hmm. But after I got through that, you know, going through that process, like I said, the, the R four coping insight. Refrain, refocus, reflect, and respond. Mm-hmm. Going through that process in a logical versus emotional brain way, like so much weight had been lifted off of me like so much, so I didn't even, I didn't know how much it was.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: And I [00:29:00] felt like so free. And I was like, man, I could breathe again. And I actually went back to, I actually went back to her after I, you know, I was angry. It was like several day, several days later, and I told her thank you.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: It's like, thank you, because I was never gonna make this decision.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker 2: I had so much shame.
This was my second marriage. Mm-hmm. I had so much shame, and I just was not going to end the marriage because I had so much shame inside that I didn't even know about, that I was going to endure anything and everything. Yeah. Even though I was unhappy, she was unhappy. I was just like, look it, it'll be all right.
I'm gonna make it happen.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker 2: You know? But. It, it's just you, you gotta, you have to go deeper and there is a way of suffering. Well, and we, one of the, the laws in the pneumococci praxis theory is the law of value pursuit.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker 2: Humans, you know, after our initial needs are met mm-hmm. Humans are [00:30:00] going to pursue the highest perceived value.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: This is who we are. We are valuable, we are significant. Mm-hmm. We are made in God's image. What the devil does, devil is an excellent marketer.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: He will remarket, you know, what is seeing and make you look at that as value.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker 2: We, we, we are pursuing value, but you have to look at what are you calling value.
Hmm. The, the wife, the car, the kids, all these things. We, we think that is a value, but the real value is the fruit of the spirit.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker 2: And when you talked about like joy, the fruit of the spirit, you know, we think the fruit of the spirit are, you know, rewards, they are diagnostic notifications that you are aligned with your divine design.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker 2: So if you are living your life and you see a [00:31:00] pattern of impatience, you see a pattern of not having joy, you know that, okay, I'm out of alignment. It's, it's like your car looking at the dashboard and your check engine light comes on. You know that something's off. I'm out of alignment. I need to get back in alignment.
Mm-hmm. And when you live your life according to that, that is what actually gives you value. Not, not these temporary things that we have. The, the devil has remarketed and rebranded, you know, let me get this car, let me get these, you know, these muscles. Let me get this, let me get that. Let me get this title.
That is not real value, right? Those are temporary things. So going by the fruit of the spirit, making sure that you are doing those things. No matter what. 'cause that is your original design. That is your original coding. Like that is who you are when you do those things. Mm-hmm. That's you being your, your original self.
And you are actually like taking off the mask.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker 2: So like, don't be, don't let the devil steer you [00:32:00] wrong.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker 2: Unique, you know, like, um, I'm sorry. The fruit of the spirit. That is that original design.
Speaker: Yeah. And the thing, you know, and on the fruit of the spirit, the fruit of the spirit never expires.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker: So let's go to things that expire.
You go to the gym today, you eventually get old. Yeah. That's gonna expire, you know the different things. Um, your car is gonna eventually break down. Your kids are gonna eventually grow up, you know they're gonna go and have their life. Yep. You know, so all these different things expire, but like you said, the fruit of the spirit never does.
You know, and as long as we're walking in the fruit, we're good.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: You know? Um. Yeah, it's a very important 'cause it never expires. It is, it's, it's something that's gonna be sustained. It's sustainable. Um, there's no, you know, you go to the grocery store, you look on the milk, say expires April 13th. The, the love never expires.
Joy never expires. Peace never [00:33:00] expires. Long suffering never expires. You know, and I could go through all of the fruits if you want me to, you know, but but yeah, it never expires. So I love that. I love that. And when you use that as your. Your, your dashboard. I love that. Acknowledge of a dashboard. You know, am I showing love today?
Am I showing patience today?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, am I, because that can, that could be a check for myself. Okay. You know, that's something I need to work on, you know, was I really me like I was supposed to? Yeah. You know am I, am I faithfulness? You know, am I, you know, those different things, the fruit, so yes.
I love that as a dashboard analogy. You might hear that again when I preach.
Speaker 2: Go ahead. Look, I, I, I think. So there is a, um, I, I, I, I teach that there are three truths mm-hmm. About the fruit of the spirit. I think this should be taught to every new believer, everybody who is a believer, like, you know, long-term believer, new believer.
And I, I think it's not hit it, we, we don't hit it hard enough. Mm-hmm. You know, so the fruit of the [00:34:00] spirit has three truths. Mm-hmm. So the first one is this is this is God's character. If you, if somebody ever comes to you and they say, I heard from God. They say, Lawrence, I heard from God and he said this, this, this, and they don't exhibit the fruit of Spirit, they lying to you.
Because they are they out? They're out of alignment. This is God's character.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker 2: You know, this is how God is. Mm. So that second one is, this is also supposed to be our character. This is our original design. This is supposed to be who we are. This is showing that we are aligned with God. Mm-hmm. And then their last one is this concept called the internal garden.
We talked about value, we are constantly pursuing value as humans we're, we're pursuing significance. Mm-hmm. So that internal garden is like, just like Adam and Eve lived in a garden, we also have a garden, but it's inside. Mm-hmm. So you, when you do something kind. As men, when you do something gentle, men are supposed to be gentle.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: It is not feminine. Men are supposed to be gentle. It just shows up differently. Yeah. So when you do [00:35:00] something gentle, you, you encourage your son, you encourage your children, you sow a seed.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: You do something gentle. Again, you're watering that seed, you're cultivating, you do something again. You get to eat from that fruit.
And then when you look in the mirror, you like what you see. You, you, you enjoy who, who you are, and then you stop chasing this outside value and you, you start feeling valuable because when you feel valuable, like life changes, your motive changes. You know, you can, you can do righteous acts, but with bad motives and you still end up on the other side of unrighteousness.
Yeah. Like it's all about your motives and you have to understand that you have value and live your life according to being a valuable person.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: So people can stop, like getting you to do stuff 'cause they like, you know, getting comp, making you compromise yourself to get something that, you know, that wasn't even value in the first place.
Speaker: Correct. One thing I hear is the statement, doing the [00:36:00] right thing for the wrong reason.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker: So yeah, you could be doing the right thing, but for the wrong reason. It goes back to the fruit. The fruit on the inside. Yo, what is your garden like on the inside? You know, is your fruit rotten? You know, is it, you know.
The thing is this, the spirit can help build that fruit in you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: And that's why we have the spirit of God within us to help build our fruit so that we can show love, joy, and peace. Because we, we, we do live in this flesh, but we, we have to go back and. Go back to the, the root, you know, the original purpose to show love, joy, and peace to this world.
The salt of the earth, the light of the world. That's what we've been called to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the fruit of the spirit, the, the Holy Spirit also reveals. Because there, there is, there is fruit, like kindness, looks good, looks different culturally versus kingdom, you know, culturally kindness is social currency.
You know, I'm gonna do this so you can do this [00:37:00] for me, but in a kingdom way, kindness, I'm gonna be kind to you no matter what you say. No matter what you do. Mm-hmm. You can cuss me out. But I'm still gonna be kind, but I'm gonna have boundaries. I ain't gotta be around you. Right. But I'm still gonna be kind.
Mm-hmm. So you have to, you have to also listen to the, the Holy Spirit and understand what those fruit actually look like according to the kingdom and not the culture.
Speaker: Yes. So very true. Because a lot of times the culture says get them back.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: You know, get back at them. Yep. But Kingdom says Love them.
In spite of Yeah. Do good to them that despite who they misuse you. Yep. So the world says to if someone does X, you do X back to 'em or get them before they get you. But Kingdom says, irrespective of, I've told you to love them anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: So good segue. Let's talk about finding love again. So I seen some.
Social media posts. So it seems like you fell in love again. So my question to you is, when did you feel like it was [00:38:00] time to go ahead and move forward with your life with finding love again,
Speaker 2: when I was no longer dependent on women.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: We, we have been, you know, we've been taught that, you know, we go into these marriages with culture's, math, you know, half and a half becomes one.
But really it's supposed to be one and one equals one. You know, two whole people come together to be a whole person, to be a complete, you know, unit. Mm-hmm. But we have been taught even as men, that we are looking for somebody to save us.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: We, I, I re, I remember at, um, I remember going to a Marish retreat, I don't know if you were there, and it was someone else that came into VPF, and I remember him saying, you know.
Look to your wife and I looked to my wife and he said, that's your mirror. That is, she tells you that is the mirror that shows you your, how you show up. [00:39:00] And I, I remember thinking like, that's right. That's right. But what do you do when you look at your mirror and they don't see you like for who you are and they don't see value there, and then you get depressed.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: That, that's too much responsibility for another person to be your mirror. They, that person is not your mirror. They are not your piece. You should not be dependent on that person. Yes. You know, we are not to, to live alone. We, we are supposed to be in community, but Adam didn't need Eve.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Eve came to provide ease.
Same way Adam provided ease to, to to ease life.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: We should go into these relationships not dependent on anybody, and whatever they give you is just, it's just extra.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: It is like you not dependent on that person to tell you that. You [00:40:00] good looking to tell you that you're smart, to tell you that you are accomplished.
Like all these things, you have to know that stuff for yourself. So I got to a place where I no longer needed women.
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker 2: I no longer, like I knew who I was. I was grounded in my divine values. Like then I could really go into this relationship with like without that. Without that weight of like, if I do this, I need her to do this.
I need her to be there. I need us to be, to be together all the time. And, and I, I'm not going to talk about this 'cause I don't want her to be mad at me. You know, walking on eggshells, when you don't have that weight, it makes everything so much easier. You're able to be vulnerable and transparent and, and just be your complete self.
Without, without performing. Mm-hmm. Like that's what we have to get to this place where you stop performing. Mm-hmm. And I always [00:41:00] found it weird that we are taught in relationships. When you're looking for that right person, you send your representative, you send your representative, but your goal is for, to find this person that really sees you.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: How can they really see you if you not even presenting as you. You want them to look through the mask and see you, but you lying to 'em.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Like you gotta get to this place. I mean like full transparency. Once I got to that place, I, I knew I was ready and I found another whole person.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Like, God revealed to me this, this woman's capacity for kindness. Like I, I fell in love with this woman's heart way before I, I ever like met her like, or anything. And I just like, I just, I, I love her heart and me and her joke about how this is how you also get past. The fleshy stuff. You know, we joke about how we are not each other's type.[00:42:00]
You know, she, she would've, like, if we would've met each other on the street, there would be no conversation, anything like that. Like, but we gave each other a chance 'cause we were able to look past that and like, you know, look through different eyes. And my, my, my, my lady is a, you know, she is very attractive, but she wasn't my type
Speaker: right.
Speaker 2: So I am in love with this woman's heart, this woman's wholeness, her capacity for forgiveness, her, like, just all these things that, that God talks about her grace and just how she carries herself and the looks and everything else is just a, you know, that's a added benefit.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. Okay, cool. I love that idea of two holes coming together because I know I brought that out before two holes coming together versus p two broken pieces coming, trying to fill the holes.
Yeah, because the truth of the matter is, if you're coming in broken and I'm broken, my [00:43:00] puzzle piece may not fit where you're broken at.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker: And so we're sitting here trying to put a square peg in a round hole. And why, why is it not fitting? Why is it not fitting? But when you are a hole. It They're not completing you 'cause you're already complete.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker: You guys are bringing two puzzle pieces together to make this beautiful picture, which it was beautiful before, but now it's enhanced.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: So your, whenever your whole, your your spouse, your mate, whoever you dating, they just enhance what's already there versus completing what wasn't there to start off with.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker: So I love that perspective of making sure you was hold first. All right, so, so we talk about Holness. I, I see a book right here by Al The Gray. Holiness is The New Sexy. You Want talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 2: So, I, I think I, I, the reason that's titled The Holness is the New Sexy, you know, it's used in, you know, urban terms of what we think of sexy.
Sexy is. I feel that [00:44:00] holness is just as visible as you can see. If somebody's attractive, you can see if somebody's whole. And I want to help people stop wasting so much time. First chapter in the book talks about 11 attributes of wholeness. So when you go on that date with somebody, you can, it's almost like, almost like a checklist.
You can look down and the first four are, are things that you can recognize like right away. You know, self-awareness, kindness, you know, you can look at that person and see if that person is actually whole. Or are they trying to, to perform and they send in their representative. And if that not whole, then you need to send 'em on their way.
Speaker: You need to get a little more healing first before we can come
Speaker 2: back to this. Yeah. It's like, why, why are we like we, we get into this place where we're trying to force these relationships because you think that this person being with this person is going to give you value. Especially women. Women are, are taught, almost like taught that they are incomplete.
Unless they're in a relationship. [00:45:00] Mm-hmm. Like something is wrong with 'em. Like, why aren't you married yet? Why don't you have babies yet? Like mm-hmm. It's like, no, like she is, he's a complete woman, whether she's with a man or without a man. Mm-hmm. And some men get intimidated when a woman says, you know, well, I don't.
She says, I don't need a man. Hmm. Like, please say that.
Speaker: Right,
Speaker 2: right. 'cause a lot of the things that we think of when a woman says they don't need a man, we think of like this. Like, like this. This is adulting one-on-one. She can pay her own bills, she can take out the trash. Like this is adulting one-on-one.
Mm-hmm. So why are you trying to get in a relationship with somebody who can't adult? Mm
Speaker: mm That's, that's big right there. That's big. Um, I definitely, I'm feeling that one. And then also I see this book called Wholeness Rising. What's this about?
Speaker 2: So wholeness is the new sexy brings both together where I like telling stories, you know, so it gives, it, it gives you a, a story form form where you are walking through the main character.
Through her life and you are, the [00:46:00] story introduces aspects of wholeness. Mm-hmm. Everything that I've talked about here, most of everything I've talked about here is presented in there. Okay. So wholeness rising takes a deeper dive. Mm-hmm. We go all the way back to the garden, how the fall, we talk about how things got broken.
We talk about how we got here, you know, watching out for the devil's tricks and then how we fix it, how we live whole. So this was like a course that I did that I turned it into a workbook. And it also gives you like journal things that you can like help with, like writing and really taking a deep dive and understanding who you are.
Hmm. So, so you can get whole and walk in wholeness.
Speaker: Hmm. Okay, cool. So were these books written before, after, or during your divorce?
Speaker 2: So everything, one of the, one of the things. So I think my, the divorce was easier, I think, for me than other people because I had a, I had a [00:47:00] support system. I had a sister-in-law who encouraged me.
When I would come to her with complaints. She encouraged me to work on me.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: And she turned that, that, that spotlight back on me. What can you do? What can you do to meet your own needs? How can you value yourself versus foc focusing on what you say this person's not doing and what they doing? Like how can you focus on you?
So I had been doing the wholeness work for like, you know, half a decade. So when I got out of it, I just needed some more alignment and then wholeness as the new sexy was kind of written. Okay. You know, afterwards, and, you know, it was, it was, it was just like a, it was a healing journey.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: And then the rest of these books have kind of come afterwards and the teaching and the focus on wholeness.
This is, you know, like I said, God has had me in the, in the lab and we have been doing some major work and I am, you know, I, I, I am definitely honored that God, you know, blessed me with this wisdom [00:48:00] and entrusted me with it.
Speaker: Gotcha. Okay. So speaking of wisdom, I need you to spit some wisdom to some somebody right now, they just received the papers, they're about to get separated.
Um, what's something that you can, a, a quick little blurb. I know we've been talking for about 45 minutes now, but what's a quick little blurb that you can encourage somebody with that's going, like in the beginning stages of the divorce? What's something that you would say to the, that person?
Speaker 2: There's an opportunity there.
You have not lost value. You are still a, a, a strong man. God still loves you. While God does not like divorce, God uses everything. He will use every situation for his good, just like he, he did with me and, and as a man. Don't believe the lies, that you can't go deeper and you can't, you know, get in touch with your emotions [00:49:00] and work through them.
Like don't be tricked. Work through your emotions. Take a deep dive. Don't get in another relationship until you are ready. 'cause we, we've been taught in order to get over one person, let me get under another one.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Don't do it. All, all you're doing is bringing those same patterns, those same behaviors back into another relationship and it ends up being the same way because you are the same person.
Like take that deep dive. You are still valuable. You are still that, that same man, and on the other end of this, you going to be even better. You gotta, you gotta do the work and, and take the time to heal. And that, that, that healing time looks different for everybody.
Speaker: Mm. And I love that about taking the time to heal before getting into another relationship.
Because I think sometimes some people think that it's their healing process getting none underneath another.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker: But in [00:50:00] actuality, you're compounding the issue.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker: And if nothing else, you may be even starting the cycle all over again because. It's familiar. If you really think about it. Sometimes what you went through in your marriage is familiarity, especially how long you've been married.
So guess what you're gonna find or look for the same thing thinking that it's this love and it's amazing. Then you find yourself in the same cycle because you never healed.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker: You know, it's always about getting into that cycle of healing versus that cycle of hurt. Um, so Al the great, I appreciate you on today, man.
Um, any final words before we close out?
Speaker 2: Get hold. You know, the Bible talks about, you know about wisdom and it may cost you all that you can, but get that wisdom. Get whole, get in tune with yourself. You have, you have a original design, and it's time to take off the mask and stop. Stop finding comfort and value that is temporary and find value in the things God placed in you.
Speaker: Amen. Amen. And to every man listening right [00:51:00] now, if you're going through the voice, I want you to hear this. This is not the end of your story. You're not defined by what fell apart. You are still a father. Still a man, still capable of love. Growth and purpose. Take the time to heal, do the work. Lean into your faith and don't walk this journey along.
This has been real talk. We'll see you next time. Thank you, Al, for being a part of this journey