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“Patient zero” is back. In this episode, I sit down with Dr. David Martin to examine the reported Russian laboratory death and the hidden paper trail he connects to biological-warfare research, patents, vaccines, and DARPA’s “Prophecy” program. We also explore his claim that global control is already here, and why defeating the system requires confronting the fear, shame, and programming it has planted within us.
Follow Dr. David Martin: https://davidmartin.world
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Seth Holehouse is a TV personality, YouTuber, podcaster, and patriot who became a household name in 2020 after his video exposing election fraud was tweeted, shared, uploaded, and pinned by President Donald Trump — reaching hundreds of millions worldwide.
Titled The Plot to Steal America, the video was created with a mission to warn Americans about the communist threat to our nation—a mission that’s been at the forefront of Seth’s life for nearly two decades.
After 10 years behind the scenes at The Epoch Times, launching his own show was the logical next step. Since its debut, Seth’s show “Man in America” has garnered 1M+ viewers on a monthly basis as his commitment to bring hope to patriots and to fight communism and socialism grows daily. His guests have included Peter Navarro, Kash Patel, Senator Wendy Rogers, General Michael Flynn, and General Robert Spalding.
He is also a regular speaker at the “ReAwaken America Tour” alongside Eric Trump, Mike Lindell, Gen. Flynn.
Today, we're gonna follow the paper trail behind the pneumonic plague. It runs through decades of biological warfare research, vaccine development, patents, and even a DARPA program. So you've probably already seen the headlines. Patient zero is back. People are dying in Russia from mysterious pneumonia supposedly.
Speaker 1:But according to my guests today, those headlines are just the surface of a much bigger story. Doctor David Martin says that he's seen the same playbook that he exposed during COVID, scare the public, offer the protection, then use the emergency to grab more control. But there's another layer. Doctor Martin believes that the conflicts between Russia, Ukraine, America, and everyone else are just political theater. And that meanwhile, the financial, military, and international networks that sit above all those borders profit from the fear down below.
Speaker 1:But then we go even deeper into how you can step out of a system that feeds on fear, shame, and the need for control. Welcome to Man in America. I'm your host, Seth Holehouse. If you get something out of this, make sure you hit the like button, share it, subscribe it. It's free, it's easy, and it helps me stay independent.
Speaker 1:Alright, let's go and get in this conversation with my good friend, Doctor. David Martin. Doctor. David Martin, I always look forward to our conversations, and thank you so much for just giving us your time today. I'm I'm just looking forward to kinda digging into a lot of things happening right now.
Speaker 1:So thanks for being here.
Speaker 2:Always good to see you, Seth. It is a delight and an honor to be with you.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. We've had some good discussions over the years, and I think this will be a good one too because I I find that whenever some sort of big SIOP is emerging or some sort of big global event, especially when it's a little bit of a crossover with medicine or health that you're one of the first peep... People I look to as, okay.
Speaker 1:What's David saying about this? And so, you know, right now, it is the Russian plague. Right? It's like a it's like a six year cycle. Right?
Speaker 1:Every six years, there's a new new, variant or a new think... Health threat that comes out. And I've got a few things for us to look at as you have too, but, Yeah. I guess before we jump into those, I guess, what's your what's your bigger picture overview of what you're seeing with this Russian plague?
Speaker 2:Well, as we'll dive into with much greater detail, you know, I I laid out, I think with you and with several other people that, you know, it was easy during COVID to think about SARS and the spike protein as kind of a one off situation, but as I suggested in many interviews and many presentations across the five year period of kind of the high traffic zone of COVID, I pointed out that, the spike protein was only one of over 60 biological weapons in active development. So let's just say for the rest of time, in certainly our lifetime, we have ample supply of things that have been made deadly against humanity. And not surprisingly, pneumonic plague was one of the things that I had discussed in the orientation around kind of what DARPA was looking at and so forth. So there's a degree to which, I I guess there's a bit of an oxymoron it. I don't know if you're aware, but the plague associated with this, pneumonic plague is something that under the DARPA research program was actually, operating under the title prophecy.
Speaker 2:I think it's interesting that they called it prophecy. You kinda sit there and go, you know, as things go, you kinda can't make this up, that they're suggesting that somehow or another a weaponized version of something that is probably one of the oldest biological weapons used in recorded history would be branded as prophecy by DARPA. So there's a lot to unpack in that, but this is not an I told you so moment, it's a moment where I just remind people that paying attention to the fact that there are active efforts right now to, continue to develop biological weapons, and as much as we say we've learned lessons from COVID, I would suggest that, there are few, if any, people who truly have.
Speaker 1:So when you say this ties back to a DARPA program named PROPHECY, can you expand that a little bit?
Speaker 2:So as we talked about with the spike protein, if we go back to 2002 when when Ralph Baric and his team through NIAID and Anthony Fauci's work were working on this idea of what they called pandemic preparedness in a variety of different platforms. There was both an NIAID funding source, as well as a DARPA funding source that was put in place in 2005, to essentially run this dual use programme where gain of function research was done on a number of what were considered to be pathogens that could be turned into chemicals that would be roughly described as biological weapons, and giant surprise, this one, you know, out of the National Institute of Health Owned's publication, is listed as a biowarfare technology. So, you know, as you know, we talked about that in the 2005, you know, SARS being a biowarfare enabling technology, and modified coronavirus being a biowarfare enabling technology, their words, again not mine, you know, this one is labeled the same way. So, we pretend like these things are somehow laboratory experiments that are being done to defend humanity against the outbreak of some natural phenomenon, we have to stop saying that because the researchers themselves are calling it biowarfare, and when we have research that is officially labeled as biowarfare research, which violates, by the way, every one of the conventions that were put in place after the second world war, you know, we shouldn't be surprised when a biowarfare agent becomes used in biowarfare.
Speaker 2:I mean that doesn't feel like a huge surprise if that's what it's called. You know, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, and in this case coughs like a duck, or in this case coughs like a rodent, it probably is the plague, and it probably is a biological warfare agent.
Speaker 1:And so the... Kind of the story going right right now with this is basically... Here's an AP article. It says how Russia and the world are responding to a possible case of pneumonic plague after a lab worker dies. And so am I correct to understand this?
Speaker 1:The overall more mainstream story of this is that there... That somehow they were working probably in some sort of high security bio lab in Russia. They were doing stuff with pneumonic plague and that that plague escaped somehow. Right? And that's where all the concern is.
Speaker 1:Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, if if you go back and look at the official report, the October 2, report is that a test tube containing pneumonic plague was broken by the woman who died, at a lab in Yerkoks, Siberia. That lab has a number of pathogens, so this is not unique. And the progress of the disease to death is actually quite fast. Not surprisingly, if you treat exposure within the first twenty four hours, it's highly, highly treatable.
Speaker 2:So once again, a justification for any vaccine or emergency use vaccine, because there are a number of treatments provided that those treatments are administered quickly. It's extremely, extremely treatable. However, in the event that they are not immediately treated, the progression of pneumonia to both heart and lung failure is actually quite rapid. Within a few days is actually quite reasonable to expect based on the publications of this gain of function version of the Yersinia pestis, is the biological name for the pathogen that is is attributed to, to the notion of plague and particularly this pneumonic plague. So this is one where there's a lot of subtleties that the public needs to know.
Speaker 2:This is a treatable exposure.
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Speaker 2:As you know, there have been, not surprisingly, a number of programs with NIAID and others who have tried to build out vaccine platforms for this. Once again, while some of those have been relatively successful in animal studies, and there's some indication that there have been some individual studies where they may have expanded into other life forms, including humans, The vast majority of this is an internasal vaccine that's inhaled kind of like a traditional inhaler. And what that is supposed to do is it's supposed to give you immunity from this plague. Now, the problem that we saw, not surprisingly, with the spike protein mRNA platform and the Johnson and Johnson somewhat inactivated version of the spike protein is that as much as we would like to believe that we can have some sort of immunization platform, when you conduct the kinds of gain of function research that was done with this and other pathogen models, what you'll find is that there are enough variants that you can get people into this endless loop, kind of like the flu vaccine, where you have an immunity to one strand or one strain of the biological chemical weapon agent, but the problem is there are dozens, or in this case potentially hundreds of variants, where subtle modifications can render an immunization to one moot against immunizations to others.
Speaker 2:So the idea that we can have some sort of mass rollout of a vaccine program, number one, could not happen under emergency use authorization because there is treatment for it. That doesn't mean, by the way, that there wouldn't be an effort by governments to try to force an emergency use, but it would be illegal because there is a very well established treatment. The bigger problem, if you go back and you look at how we have been dealing with this particular pathogen, there is an enormous amount of work that is not disclosed. You have to go into things like patents and scientific papers and see all of the subtle variations because plague has been one of the most popularly studied, pathogen platforms for biological warfare because it's been so effective for so long. So the reason why...
Speaker 2:I mean, you used to throw dead bodies with with plague into enemy camps back in the Tartars and others. I mean, this is this is back, you know, hundreds of years we've been using this particular platform as a biological weapon. It's just important to understand that through the gain of function research in the last fifty years, there's probably been few pathogen platforms that have been more well developed in terms of their lethality, than the plague, and so that creates a very specific problem in this case.
Speaker 1:Now I wanted to just ask you a question before we get into the details of this. Right? So I've interviewed people like Tom Cohen. You know, when you get into the whole kind of vire... You know, German terrain, you know Yep.
Speaker 1:Viruses have been isolated. I'm to get an interview with the guy who wrote Goodbye Germ Theory, which kinda goes into this more. And oftentimes, when we have these discussions, there's... You'll see people commenting and said, look. This is the whole thing's a sign up of viruses don't exist, etcetera.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know, and I've I've gone down that rabbit hole and actually... Yeah. There's a lot of validity to that point. Right?
Speaker 1:That they've they've never... And they can't show you the actual virus.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But when we get into these biological weapons like this, is is this kind of... Is is it almost like it's a it's just a it's a whole different discussion? Right? It's a whole different... Because, like, mustard gas or, you know, other things like, yeah, there are things that can work as biological weapons that aren't built off of the virus idea.
Speaker 1:Like, how how would you respond to that?
Speaker 2:So I I I respond to Tom Cowan and the entire debate by reminding people that it was in 1953 that we invented a model, and listen carefully. We invented a model that we called DNA. We said that these nucleic acids are strung together and that those nucleic acids form this building blocks of life or, you know, the code of life or whatever.
Speaker 1:Double helix. Right?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, which, by the way, if you look at the the X-ray crystallography plates, don't show a double helix. They they actually show a much more complex structure. So Watson and Crick did what most scientists do, and they create this reductionist model that says that we zip and unzip nucleic acids, which then zip and unzip things called mRNA and cDNA, and then we kind of believe that then that builds the protein lattice that we build proteins on and so forth and so on. These are all models. So the dogmatic debate that Tom and others support is built on an opening fallacy, and the opening fallacy is that the model that was developed in 1953 is a descriptor of life.
Speaker 2:It's important to realise that in living systems, living systems produce chromosomes, and chromosomes are wound both chemical and mechanical and electrical devices inside the living system, which are not merely chemistry, they are also antennae. They receive and transmit signals. And when we reduce the world to this bio chemical view that says that the only thing that the human body responds to is biochemistry, then the debate on whether there's a virus or not a virus is a secondary issue to the primary issue, which is we already have a broken model of what the human is. And so debating the existence or the absence of a pathogen is kind of foolish because the pathogen model is a pathogen model derived from a chemical model, which is not how the human body works. And so this whole philosophical thing, which I have seen as nothing but an existential decoy so that people can get wrapped up around a debate that's not a debate.
Speaker 2:You're not debating facts. You're debating beliefs. And like the grand acquisition, there are those who believe one thing, and there's a... Those who believe another thing, and I'm not overly interested in either one of them. I can see on a scanning electron microscope, and I can see on a regular microscope, I can see chromosomes doing what chromosomes do, and they align to polar conditions, and they orient themselves, and they go through mitosis, and they do all these wonderful things.
Speaker 2:No one has ever been able to do anything to replicate the existence or absence of a similar level of granular reality around what we call the idea of virus, not virus. Now, the reason why that's important is because Tom Cowan's faux debate is actually harmful because the debate then turns into there are no toxins, and that's not true because it turns out that you can use all sorts of chemical models to create things that kill people, and we've known that for a long time. If we stopped pretending like this is a virus versus non virus conversation, because it isn't. And in this case, it's not even a virus, it's bacteria. So are there bacteria?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, there are, and you can see bacteria. I've worked with bacteria, and as much as we may or may not agree that they cause or don't cause a thing, there is no question that certain bacteria produce toxins. One of the most famous, bacillus thuringiensis, is very much of a toxin producer. It's the reason why in the early 1900s we realized that bacillus thuringiensis, when it was subject to mammalian structures, would create gastric problems, particularly things like leaky gut syndrome and all kinds of other gastric problems, and it comes as no surprise that the toxin, bacillus thuringiensis toxin, which is the toxin created by that bacterium, is the thing that's probably largely responsible for the massive number of people who have food allergies and gastrointestinal problems today. Why?
Speaker 2:Because every single genetically modified food crop uses, are you ready for this, bacillus thuringiensis to alter the food product. So giant surprise, we introduced this industrial toxin derived from a biological substance, and lo and behold, the data that we knew in 1904 that said that if you have bacillus third genesis toxin exposure, you're going to have GI problems. Giant surprise, we have GI problems running rampant because we have turned our agro industrial complex into something dependent on the use of a toxin. Now, why does that matter? It matters because precision matters.
Speaker 2:This is not a question of, is there a pathogen, is there not a pathogen? This is a question of can you use nature to inspire the creation of a weapon? And the answer to that is yes, and we have done it for a long time. And so the debate that is not a debate... I've said many times, there's no debate on whether there are pathogens or not pathogens.
Speaker 2:There's no debate on whether viruses are not viruses. Those are doctrinal positions held by acolytes of a belief system that is all based on a fundamental fallacy. And the fallacy is that humans are somehow reduced to some sort of biochemical formula, and if we can figure out the formula, we can either support or harm that particular thing. And what it denies is the fundamental reality, which is using nature, and this is very important. You know, a bee sting, which is introduction of a protein from one animal into another animal, can create anaphylaxis and kill people.
Speaker 2:Nobody debates that because people really die from bee stings, right? A venom that is injected from a frog or from a snake can kill a person. One of the most lethal agents is the conotoxin, which is a protein that's produced by little shellfish largely in the coastal waters in the Asian Pacific. You know, within the matter of thirty seconds to an hour, if you get stung by a barb of a little conotoxin injection, you can go into paralysis and immediate death, and it can shut you down. You can have fugu in a Japanese restaurant, and the protein that comes out of some of the glands in the fugu fish, a form of puffer fish, can kill you.
Speaker 2:Great news is I actually nearly had that happen. I did get fugu poisoning, and I had paralysis for about eighteen hours. Those are real things, and so I have a huge amount of frustration, and quite frankly, I think it's distracting to get into debates on the nature of pathogenesis when what you're missing is the illegal actions of developing chemistries inspired by nature to kill humanity. And that's where Tom's debate gets us nowhere. As a matter of fact, as I've said before, it's a decoy.
Speaker 2:It's a distraction that unfortunately leads to a number of people denying that a DARPA program could use a natural platform and create a weapon off the back of it. And the fact of the matter is they can, they do, and it's been done many, many, many, many times.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. Even looking at... You mentioned, you know, frequency. You mentioned, you know, how these are antennas.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right.
Speaker 1:You know, just from that perspective, you might say, oh, all these people are sick. And you... Okay. You might say, oh, well, yeah, maybe it's not a virus, but what if it is a certain frequency being put off by five g towers. Right?
Speaker 1:Like, I've got... On the inverse, I have this little wave watch. Right? It's a little frequency device. And, you know, if I'm feeling off, I'll put this thing on.
Speaker 1:I'll tune it into, like, the immune boost or whatever, and within five minutes, I'm start... I'm feeling better because it's it's it's tapping into the frequencies that are addressing that particular thing. It's like... Yeah. So that that...
Speaker 1:It makes sense actually. Right? When you when you kind of
Speaker 2:Yeah. And and and I think I think... Here's the thing. I mean, listen. I...
Speaker 2:I'm sure if you're trying to sell books or you're trying to build, you know, your your following of of, you know, whoever is the adherent to your theory, you jump on any bandwagon you can get on, and this happened to be a good bandwagon because COVID allowed the mouthpiece of terrain theory versus viral theory and pathogen theory to become a popular topic, but it misses the point entirely, and the point that it misses is there are people who intend to harm humanity, and they use a naturally derived model to build a weapon, and that's exact... Exactly what they do. And it's not the first time nor the last time that people opportunistically jump on a bandwagon and decide that they're going to use a public outcry of a thing to advance, not a scientific theory, there's no scientific theory here, it's a belief system. And, you know, I... I've...
Speaker 2:I have been, as you know, the subject of the inquisition on both sides. The the people who sit there going, well, you know, there aren't biological warfare agents, and then Tom Cowen's group going, Dave Martin uses the term virus. Well, use the term virus because I quote scientific papers that use the term. I have never in my life ever suggested that I have come down on one side or the other of a model because... Are you ready for this?
Speaker 2:It's a model, and I don't believe in models. I don't care what the model is. I don't believe in a terrain theory model, I don't believe in a viral model, I don't believe in any model, in fact, don't believe in things. What I do is observe things, and when I observe things I try to learn from what I'm observing. And so the model platform conversation for me is largely a waste of air and a huge distraction from the illegal, horrifically violent, and sadistic program, which is to take nature and weaponize it against humans.
Speaker 1:Kinda reminds a little bit of politics. You're you're kinda fighting left versus right, and then you have the other person who's like, that the whole thing is a distraction. There's still... There's a centralized system that controls the strings of all the different parties. And Correct.
Speaker 1:The more you focus on just these lower level occurrences, the more you're missing the bigger picture.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Indeed.
Speaker 1:And so looking at the the pneumonic plague and what's happening in in Russia. So similar to COVID, and and not just COVID, but many of these, you know, kind of events that have happened before, They... These aren't just random occurrences that pop up. You can see there's always, a, as you've done a lot, you can you can find the patents, you can find the paper trail, you can see which labs are working on them. That's one But then you also can find the the psychological programming surrounding that that event.
Speaker 1:Correct. Right? You know, looking at the, the the Olympics. Right? They had the Olympics in London showing the the big...
Speaker 1:You know, all the kids in hospital beds and the big demons and the vaccines. And so, this is what's interesting. So, I wanna play this short video, and I I apologize to the creator. I I forget his name. There's a French guy that people have probably seen, all over the place with this.
Speaker 1:So, I'm gonna play this, quick video. Let me find it here. Of this gentleman right here, who does really good, you know, really good job of just kinda capturing a lot of the different angles of, I think, social engineering and psyops, and he puts them all together. So I'm gonna play this. I'm gonna...
Speaker 1:Because for the people that are listening versus watching, some of these things... You get to see some of these things. I'm gonna pause it occasionally just to kind of highlight, okay. He's typing in this, etcetera, to kind of walk people through the video because it's a lot of information quickly. But I'll play this, and I wanna just kinda hear your thoughts on it.
Speaker 1:So Yeah. So we'll do this now.
Speaker 2:I was patient's hero. A
Speaker 1:researcher at a lab in Siberia died of a mysterious illness. So he's playing this Patient Zero song from Taylor Swift, which recently came out. Right now, how this this discussion of patient Patient Zero. Yeah. The news saying everyone's saying they're dying of mysterious illness.
Speaker 1:Now here he's showing in her music video, a little newspaper clip says, you know, someone dies of mysterious illness.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, yeah, then showing up, you know, yes, they're referring to this this Russian lab worker as patient zero. And how this event happened on 09/25/2026, right, is when, I guess, allegedly this this this
Speaker 2:Reportedly died after breaking a test tube containing a plague pathogen.
Speaker 1:And then he's showing that the... In the music video how there... Someone's dropping a little kind of vial into a drink in her her song, Taylor Swift song. Yeah. And, again, how her song came...
Speaker 1:Out... Patient's ear comes out the exact day that the lab worker drops the vial. And then here he's showing how Zelenskyy is is saying that patient... That Putin is patient zero. This is from, September 23.
Speaker 2:He is patient zero. The one from whom this idea of war keeps spreading further.
Speaker 1:So is that the definition of patient zero, which means the first person infected by a disease during an outbreak or the initial point of origin for a spreading negative event. It pulls up the the first date of the Russian... First Russian COVID case comparing to the first date of patient zero for this pneumonic plague Yeah. Which ironically, of course, is six years, six months, and six days. Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. We know Russia has had weapons program. They look... This this book highlighting there's a biological lab in Siberia.
Speaker 2:In Siberia, there were a lab accident.
Speaker 1:And then how Taylor Swift's number is 13, and how 13 is the the death tarot card.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, anyway, he he does a good job of just kinda running through. So when you see all of that, what are you seeing behind behind this?
Speaker 2:Well, listen. You you can see event two zero one in October 2019. I mean, remember that that in event two zero one, had all of the news clips of the shortage of face masks, and they used the coronavirus as the image virus that allegedly was the tabletop exercise between Johns Hopkins University and the Gates Foundation and others. You sit there and you just kind of go, you know, there was not a single piece of media for the event that wasn't replicated almost like project Mockingbird across the entirety of the rollout of the pandemic. The only thing event two zero one was missing was the toilet paper scare.
Speaker 2:And what's fascinating about the toilet paper scare is that the actual outbreak of what was called COVID-nineteen, and more importantly, the actual deployment of the biological weapon, which is the spike protein associated with the SARS model, if you go back and you look at that, there's even a reason why toilet paper might be a logical thing to say is going to be required simply because the early work with Pfizer back in the early nineties on the coronavirus model was largely around gastrointestinal distress in animals. And so if you go back and look, diarrhea was one of the common naturally occurring side effects of what was established to be both porcine, pig and dog, exposure to the genetically modified coronavirus. So the idea that there was a probability that we would have massive outbreak of diarrhea leading to massive requirements for toilet paper is not accidental at all. What we didn't have is we didn't have a run on, I don't know, band aids, right? Because nobody talked about hemorrhage.
Speaker 2:We didn't have a massive run on other medical supplies, but toilet paper actually has a logical reason why it would be part of the SIOP. Because if you go back far enough, you'll see that the first Pfizer injection was built to deal with diarrhea and gastrointestinal problems in animals. So giant surprise. Now, did it turn out that anybody wound up needing excess toilet paper? No.
Speaker 2:But is there a reason why toilet paper was part of the narrative? Yes. And do people talk about that? No. In fact, most people don't even remember the runs on toilet paper, but those were social media videos where people were beating each other up in grocery stores and Walmarts and Targets and all kinds of things, trying to get the last roll of toilet paper.
Speaker 2:The fact of the matter is none of that was necessary except to create the frequency of fear. And my argument has been, and this is Dave's theory, so I'm going to be really clear, this is a theory. Don't suggest that it is anywhere provable in any reliable form, But my theory is that like we talked about with the chromosomes and how they are frequency, both transmitters and receivers, I think that we built a frequency of fear upon which we could then send out the hypnotic frequency of mind control. And I am convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt in my own view that unless you have a fear carrier frequency, you cannot create a pandemic. But if you do have a fear carrier frequency, I think you can.
Speaker 2:So the whole, oh my gosh, we'll run out of toilet paper. Well, nobody ran out of toilet paper. Nobody needed to run out of toilet paper, but it's a phenomenal way to get every single person, the rank and file of humanity, to be in panic mode. And when you're in panic mode, then you will adopt all sorts of things that you would not otherwise adopt. And so so all of this comes together around a very simple, very reliably predictable human activity, which says that when I can create mass hysteria, I can then also create any perpetration of any act that then promulgates across the population in a way that ultimately allows people to call out to the leaders, call out to the experts, call out to the scientists and everybody else and go, please save us.
Speaker 2:Well, save us from what? Save us from the fear that they induced. One of the questions that I was fascinated with, and I'm still going to be monitoring, is how many places in Russia are we going to see a correspondence between Ukrainian drone strikes and the alleged outbreak of plague. Why? Because a lot of the Russian data and a lot of The US data and a lot of the Polish data actually suggest that one of the best ways to distribute the underlying Yersinia pestis pathogen that's genetically modified is through...
Speaker 2:Are you ready for this? Aerosolized distribution from blast resistant grenades and other blast resistant explosive devices. So wouldn't it be interesting if we allegedly start seeing an association between where drones fly and where people allegedly get sick? And that wouldn't surprise me in the least because a lot of The US bioweapons programs are in The Ukraine. So it wouldn't surprise me one bit if we started seeing mysterious outbreaks that happened to correspond with drone flights.
Speaker 1:Interesting. And so, like so many things that we've seen before, the the narrative opens the door for the kind of the hidden distribution or the hidden attack. Right? That if you can create a lot of discussion and a lot of focus on the the plague, you know, the the outbreak of the lab, etcetera, and, you know, the the broken vial, patient zero, if you can create a lot of focus on that, then, hypothetically, say out of, you know, the Ukraine, which is in many ways a proxy state for The US, a proxy state for NATO, etcetera, which are... Is constantly, you know, kinda making sure there's this tension between the East and the West, the tension between Russia and the rest of the world, that then you could use that as a...
Speaker 1:Really as a way to to actually start distributing these actual pathogens through what you mentioned, these blast resistant mechanisms. I think we've reviewed the patents for those and the the documents for those before versus if if if there wasn't this narrative of this Russian plague escaping the lab, and all of a sudden, there are these drone strikes. And with those, you sort of having outbreaks of, say, you know, pneumonia or whatever it is, then people would probably say, wait. Hold on. These are caused by the drone strikes.
Speaker 1:Right? But if you can create this narrative that kinda swallows everything up, and then you can say, build... Use that narrative as the pathway for the drone strikes. Okay. Hey.
Speaker 1:We're gonna strategically target the drone strikes around that region first. We'll slowly expand out, and everyone's just gonna think that, oh, this is just the plague spreading.
Speaker 2:Right. Well... And we did that with cruise ships for COVID. Remember, and I've brought this issue up many times. If you look at the public health profile of a cruise ship, there's nearly an environment match in real world, terrestrial world, which is called casinos.
Speaker 2:And during the early days of COVID, every cruise ship seemed to be infected, but no casinos had any disease. Now, if you look at the total surface contact of things like buffets, you look at the total number of physical contact and social distance or not social distance, it turns out casinos and cruise ships are pretty close to identical in terms of their overall containment environment. How is it that we only had outbreaks on cruise ships and how many people participate in cruising and casino gambling at least with some degree of frequency? So the probability that you have no outbreak in a casino and all the outbreaks on cruise ships is statistically impossible. But that's what happened.
Speaker 2:And this is the reason why I'm saying that the vector of distribution to your point, we create a nonsensical story of patient zero this time in Wuhan, China. Right? We make up the story, and then suddenly cruise ships are the target because so many people who go on cruises are frequenting, I don't know, wet markets in Wuhan, and so many of them are frequenting bioweapons facilities. And it's very important to realize that Russia did step one or the rule of the media, I should say, whether Russia did it or not is neither here nor there. But suddenly we had 200 people who theoretically can be exposed.
Speaker 2:Well, guess what? We did the same thing with COVID. We started with one, allegedly one patient, but that one patient mysteriously had an enormous number of contacts within what, the last thirty six hours of their life? I mean, think about how ludicrous that is. There's not a chance in hell, I mean, none of us could go from the, Oh, we broke a vial in the lab, to suddenly what, we go out and hug and kiss 200 people right before we die.
Speaker 2:There's no chance that that could be possible and yet that is being reported. So what I'm saying is whether it is true or not is neither here nor there. What I'm saying is the mechanics of how we build the fear, which then becomes the carrier frequency upon which we build the narrative, is something that is pathologically predictable. And in this particular instance, not just predictable, it's something that we knew was going to happen. So I've said many times, Seth, that evil isn't very creative.
Speaker 2:It uses the same trick over and over and over and over again. And the challenge is to see the trick when it's happening so that there is not this reflex to say, oh my gosh, We're in global pandemic two point o. The fact of the matter is we're not. We weren't in a pandemic when we had COVID. We're not in a pandemic now.
Speaker 2:We are in a propagation of a signal of fear for the purpose of harming humans. That's what we're in.
Speaker 1:And so when you're when you're watching these things unfold, and you you mentioned that, you know, evil not being very creative, and and it's it's interesting that you see throughout history just the same things just repackaged. They they might tend to... They, you know, they they spray paint the bus blue this time instead of yellow. Yeah. And now all a sudden, everyone thinks it's something new.
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Speaker 1:And so when you're watching what's unfolding with the Russia plague with the narrative around this, do you see indications of this being the seed for something much larger? I mean, do... Are you... So what... I mean...
Speaker 1:Because I think that ever since COVID, the question I've oftentimes had is, okay. What is the next round of this? Because I think that COVID laid a groundwork for a lot of things, whether you're looking at the the WHO, you know, treaties, the... How the government's reacted, even the psychological response of people that, you know, COVID created this whole new PTSD around this fear of Yeah. This airborne illness.
Speaker 1:And so Yeah. Do you think that... Do you see that this... The Russian plague is gonna be something that come... Comes and goes kind of like the Marburg or Ebola scares we have?
Speaker 1:Or do you think that this is something that is kinda building to a much bigger global event?
Speaker 2:Well, I think this conversation and the conversations I try to have with thoughtful people do their best to at least hit pause on the rollout plan. I think this is a beautiful conversation. Hopefully because it will be released in the very near term, I think we may be able to disrupt some of the inertia, but here's the thing. The answer is plague has a very particularly desirable phenomenon, and that is that it has a fast lethality. So what we didn't have in SARS, which is a progression that takes days to weeks, etcetera, and certainly from a lethality standpoint takes quite a long time.
Speaker 2:Plague on the other hand is a very fast acting thing. You get pneumonia and you're dead, you know, you could be dead in, you know, a couple days. So the speed with which plague deploys becomes very desirable because the one thing that made COVID slightly less effective in terms of the overall program is it just wasn't very deadly. The interventions for COVID were very deadly, things like the intubation in nursing homes and in hospitals across the country, things like the remdesivir injections, other things, those were very deadly. But COVID as a phenomenon was not very deadly, so it's hard to get people convinced that they should worry about a thing that for the most part not only was less than or equal to the common exposure to a flu, But the biggest problem with COVID is people are testing positive and didn't have any symptoms, which means they didn't have any COVID, which means this idea of asymptomatic spreader became a nonsensical delusion that was being promulgated all over the world.
Speaker 2:Now the fact of the matter is, for a disease that is only defined by symptoms, there would be no possibility of having an asymptomatic spreader of COVID. Why? Because to have COVID is to have symptoms. So even at the definition level, you've got a problem. And I think that it would be very helpful if you're a nefarious actor on the planet right now, you'd like to have something that is slightly more deadly, where people really do die fast.
Speaker 2:You know, we have a short duration between, you know, the space of within a week, I believe it is, from the alleged broken vial to the death of the young woman who died in the lab in Russia. And so I think the speed of lethality actually matters, and I think plague serves a wonderful addition to the arsenal of fear because if I can get people dying fast, now I have a very different kind of exposure. And given the fact that I have said for many, many years that these programs, biological weapons programs, are coming out of people who have a worldview of depopulation, given the fact that they have a worldview that includes getting rid of humans, having something that is slightly more fast acting and more effective, I think, can amplify the public's ability to propagate fear much more effectively. So do I think that there's a high probability that it has something to do with a broader program of a larger rollout? Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And do I think that the public is being conditioned to fear a fast acting death? Absolutely. And I think that's where SARS was the wrong thing to pick if you want to get behavior modification. Because most people that got COVID in some fashion or the other, however they wanna call it, actually got along perfectly fine. They had a couple days of misery, and then they got better, and then everything was fine.
Speaker 2:And it wasn't until the medical interventions that we had the lethality rates go up.
Speaker 1:You could argue that COVID was a fantastic thing if your goal was to create a fear and hysteria of, well, I might have this thing even if I don't have symptoms, so I better go get the... Go... I better go get the jab that's gonna protect me from it. Like, you'd say it's highly effective if if your goal was to use it as a distribution tool for the latest, you know, big pharma injection.
Speaker 2:Well, and I and I think, you know, mRNA would have never been approved as much as my brother at CDC hates when I point this out. You know, the the official designation at the FDA was it was an experimental experimental gene therapy that was published still in April 2020. So as much as he hates when I just read right out of the SEC filings, the fact of the matter is if we had told the public that we are going to expose them to an experimental gene therapy, nobody would have taken the shot. If we say it's an emergency use vaccine, then you'll have people lining up, but as we now know, there is not a single piece of evidence that says that getting an mRNA injection did anything but increase your chance of death, increase your chance of disability, increase your chance of cancer, increase your chance of subsequent infection, increase your chance of sudden death. There's a million things that it did do, but the thing it didn't do is it didn't protect you from infection.
Speaker 2:Anthony Fauci himself got his shots and still got, allegedly, COVID several times. So there was no immunization prophylaxis or help associated with getting the spike protein instructions injected into your body so that you could be a walking biological weapons factory. Nothing about that worked out the way it was supposed to. The bummer with plague, like I said before, is because there are very well established treatments for plague, you can't pull the fast one that they did with COVID because you can't get an emergency use if there's a commercial alternative that is a treatment.
Speaker 1:But what about... Okay. So what about this? Right? Where there's...
Speaker 1:Okay. Israel had a 100% protective mRNA plague vaccine in mice before Russian lab technician died. So you could argue they they don't need an an emergency use authorization because according to this, Israel's already got the... They've already got the solution to it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. As as does The United States. And I I sent you an article about an intranasal vaccine that has been shown to be protective against mice as well. So, I mean, the great news is, we already have plenty of ways to deal with both the kind of immune stimulation approach to this, as well as the therapeutic approach to it. And all of this predates like patient zero, so we go back and say, you know, somehow we were all prepared for a thing that nobody could have forecast except the people who were actually watching.
Speaker 2:If you go back and you examine though the nature of this, the problem with waiving the emergency use is that you would have to go through more traditional clinical trials, and more traditional clinical trials means that you'd have to have early pathology and toxicity studies in humans, you'd have to have phase one and phase two clinical trials. These things would take an enormous amount of time, and as a result, the EUA was the way we accelerated experimental gene therapy into the marketplace in a form that we would not otherwise accelerate. And it's important also to realize that a lot of the intranasal approaches do not require an mRNA platform, they are done with a variety of platforms. So as much as Israel has decided that genetically modifying humans is somehow kosher, which I would love to understand the Hasidic position on that, the fact of the matter is we do not have a need for mRNA, even if we believed we had a need for some form of a vaccine approach, because there are multiple platforms that you could also use for immunisation if that was an approach you wanted to take. But back to my earlier point, I think that's a bit of a fool's errand because the genetic modification of different strains of the toxins associated with pathogen can be modified so easily that the idea that you would get an immunization from all expressions of the Ursinus pestis is ludicrous, because there are too many modifications of gain of function that have already been done.
Speaker 1:Interesting. And so getting back to, you know, the gain of function and everything, and... Yes. Because I remember early on in the Ukraine war, you... Following this, there's a whole thread on on the location that was being...
Speaker 1:The locations being targeted by Russia and the correlation of those being the Biowabs that were, you know, US or, you know, DARPA Biowabs. And so when you're seeing this coming out of this lab in Siberia, you talked about, you know, project prophecy, the dar... In DARPA. Do you think that in some form that the US military industrial complex is tied into what's happening with this lab leak? The same the same way that we saw the the Wuhan thing, like the the kind of...
Speaker 1:The the most demonized thing you could say at that time wasn't that it came from a lab, but that it came from some lab in The United States and and done through Wuhan. So do you see the same pattern from what we're seeing here?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, remember that Ralph Barrack in 2013 and 2014 during the gain of function moratorium published his gratitude to Zhengli Shi, who was the Wuhan head of this spike proteins SARS coronavirus program in Wuhan and thanked her for supplying the sequences that he was using in North Carolina to make the biologic weapon. So do I think that there is a tie? This is where we need to once again take a step back and acknowledge the fact that the Westphalian model of drawing lines on maps and calling them countries is something that long ago became moot. We don't have countries.
Speaker 2:Countries are like political parties, They're theater. And so we draw these lines and we have these really cool colored blotches on maps, and we say, that's Russia, this is, you know, the Ukraine, and this is Austria, and this is The United States. We we we draw these funny little lines on maps, and then we believe that somehow or another they... Those things are mutually exclusive. There's borders and boundaries, and there's not an edge and none of that except for the fact that the people who run the world do not see lines on maps.
Speaker 2:Never have, never will. Last time I checked, the Austria Hungary empire is still very alive and well in Vienna, and they don't bother with lines on maps. Last time I checked, the sixteen o four establishment of the British East India Company, and a couple years later, the establishment of the Hudson Bay Company does not see lines on maps. None of the banks in the world who are running all kinds of monetary systems that we know about and a lot that are occult that we don't know about, they don't see lines on maps. And, unfortunately, you know, why do we teach kids geography?
Speaker 2:Well, America is America, and then, you know, Mexico is Mexico, and Canada is Canada. Well, is it? When you have, I don't know, organizations like the World Trade Organization prior to that gap, prior... Or same time as that, the United Nations, you know, is it really that we're a bunch of different countries, or is it that we have a bunch of characters on a stage, and the script that is being written and directed uses each one of those characters for the story that we want to build, bearing in mind, for example, that, I don't know, the Iran conflict, which may affect less than 2% of the oil supply into The United States, somehow mysteriously can add a dollar per gallon of gasoline when none of the oil that goes through the Strait Of Hormuz has anything to do with the gas pump in The United States. Now, when you slow down the tape long enough to realize what I just said, you realize that somebody is profiting from a thing that has no proximate reality to the thing that they're profiting from.
Speaker 2:And, you know, we know that this kind of behavior is not nation state acting. This is supranational actors who are using nation states as actors on a stage, and that's been the case for a very long time. We could at least go back to the First and Second World War and say that that was the real death of Westphalia. Certainly the European Union was the existence of that. Certainly NATO is that.
Speaker 2:Certainly the alliance of the Abraham Accords is trying to create that in The Middle East. We have a number of things where, at the end of the day, we pretend like the lines on the map still matter, and they don't, because they don't. They never have.
Speaker 1:Interesting. Which, again, is similar to the whole virus, no virus thing. Right? It's about... Right.
Speaker 1:And this is what I try to consistently do. I try to look and see what do they want us focusing on, who is the enemy, and even with the Iran war.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And I'm... I kinda did a deep dive back into Iran. There's a lot people there presenting. Different sides of it. Obviously, the sides saying that, oh, well, Iran is...
Speaker 1:They have nuclear weapons and this... Even with the the Israel... October 7, it's all the Hamas. Well, it's like, well, yeah, but Hamas was fund... Being funded by Israel.
Speaker 1:Right? And and it's like they're they're just kind of... They're different actors in a in a play. Right. Right?
Speaker 1:In the Iran war, it's like, well, they're gonna develop nuclear weapons in this, and they're... You know, Iran's not part of the global banking system, and that's why they're being attacked. It's like, well, yeah, but Iran was, like, just as active with all the COVID measures as any other country was. They're just as active on digital ID development. If
Speaker 2:you look at the IRGC, the Iran, you know, kind of established military complex, and you look at Pakistan, and you look at the fact that it doesn't take any effort for the alliances between Iran and Pakistan to access not nuclear enrichment capabilities, but actually nuclear warheads. Because Pakistan has them. And guess what? It takes eight hours for Iran to get a packed nuke and do anything it wants with a packed nuke. It doesn't take that long.
Speaker 2:So why, if you're Iran, would you bother making a weapon that you can go to the Hertz rental car center in Pakistan right next door and get one in a moment's notice. You know, I brought that up years ago when I was doing a lot of work in Iran, and this was during the first and second Bush administration terms where I pointed out the fallacy of the Iran making a nuclear weapon. Iran doesn't have to make one. They can knock on the door of a very sympathetic neighbor who has plenty of them in stock and go, could we borrow, lease, buy, steal? Could we actually take a weapon and deploy it?
Speaker 2:And for some reason, nobody bothers to talk about the alliance between Northern Pakistan and Iran. You haven't heard that from anybody. Why not? Despite the fact that there are tribal similarities, despite the fact that there are religious similarities, besides the fact
Speaker 1:there are
Speaker 2:ideological similarities, we pretend like Pakistan is just sitting there, what, you know, making fast food for our, you know, Asian and Central Asian appetites? No. Pakistan is a very unstable, very politically challenging environment, and they're fully armed. But do we ever talk about that? No.
Speaker 2:And that's the reason why I'm saying the hypocrisy of saying we want Iran not to have a nuclear weapon while we're sitting there with Pakistan fully armed and fully dangerous is such a foolish proposition because the alliance between those two countries is remarkably strong. And if we had that conversation, all of a sudden, Iran war looks even stupider than it already is.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Makes sense. I mean... And also if you look at then the the cascading global energy crisis sees, you look at the... A lot of the global organizations that have have kinda laid the the foundation for the playbook of how to handle this with limiting driving, limiting plane flights.
Speaker 1:And this is... When I look at these things, that's the kind of perspective I'm looking at is, okay. What's the bigger picture of this? And what I see consistently, whether it was the example of COVID in Wuhan, whether it's the example we're seeing out of Russia, I'm seeing that there is some sort of centralized, conductor of the orchestra or Yeah. You know, kind of manager of the play that is using all of these countries the same way that in our country, they use political parties, they use Yep.
Speaker 1:You know, race differences, etcetera, that there is some sort of central puppet master that is Yep. You know, kind of basically creating all these circumstances. And what you see, you know you know them by their fruits, what you see is that the fruits of all of these global events is the entire world moving closer to a centralized one world control system.
Speaker 2:Yep. And I would suggest that we've already been there, not moving towards. I think we've been there since sixteen o four. So I think when we get nostalgic about it would be nice if if the the future tense was where that is. I think that if you look at the confluence of the British East India Company, the insurance and banking syndicates, and the establishment of the Hudson Bay Company, I think that was the birth of the one world government.
Speaker 2:I think every derivative that's come from that has in fact been the one world government. The fact that we have, you know, little things like even when it comes to religion. We all decided that the King James Bible was the bible. Well, guess what? That's a one world government because it turns out the King James Bible came out of the exactly same era.
Speaker 2:Every single one of these things, if we look at it, we go, oh, hold on a minute. We're pretending like that's a future event. It happened between sixteen o four and 1614. We all adopted the same god through the same book, through the same language. We all adopted the same economic system, we all adopted the same, you know, willingness to accept or reject cuisines.
Speaker 2:We... All of it happened in the sixteen hundreds, and we're sitting here today in 2026 going, oh my gosh. We might getting close to a one world government. Nope. We've been there.
Speaker 2:We've been happily there since sixteen o four, and none of us know that because we're living inside the echo chamber of all the illusions that were put up. But go back and look and find any evidence, whether it's international trade, banking, finance, social, religious, anything. Try to find anything that has not been one world since sixteen o four, and the bummer is you can't find it. So we're in the one world government. We just don't acknowledge it yet, and and that is not necessarily good reflection on humans, you know, analytical abilities because we still are believing the story that says, yes.
Speaker 2:But I have a flag that flies over my head, and it has stars and stripes. And you have a flag flying over your head and says, why is it that the French students who are protesting the quality of education in France are waving Palestinian flags? Precisely, why would we do that? Well, we would do that because it has nothing to do with nation states. It has everything to do with ideology, has everything to do with the dissemination of fear, and the dissemination of distrust.
Speaker 2:It has everything to do with that, and it has nothing to do with Palestine or Israel or the Abraham Accords or anything else. So my point is that if we are honest with the reality, you know, and by the way, AI and all of the other topics that are attracting attention right now, AI is not new. You know, I coded my first augmented insight platforms back in 1998, and you heard that date right, 1998. Guess what? The world didn't come to a crashing end, but guess what?
Speaker 2:Every one of the forces that control the world were very, very interested in appropriating and using it and three times stole it from my offices outright. I mean, so so do I do I have conviction that AI is a challenge that is facing humanity? No. Do I have a challenge that says that humans consciousness is incapable of dealing with AI right now? Yes.
Speaker 2:Those are two different things. But that's like anything else. I would suggest, as I said about the one world government. We've been in it since sixteen o four. We're still telling ourselves that it's coming just like the end of times is coming because of AI.
Speaker 2:No. It isn't. As I said, think on one of your shows, I I have said many times, apocalypses are overrated and so are messiahs. We we build this fear campaign, and then we're waiting for the hero to save us. And we're gonna build another fear campaign, wait for the hero to save us.
Speaker 2:Well, the great news is humanity's gone through many, many, many, many cycles of the world's coming to an end. You know, I remember the nineteen seventies crawling under my school desk so that when the Russian nuclear attack happened, I would be safely under a school desk. I don't know if you saw any of the early test footage of atomic bombs, but I'm pretty sure that hiding under a four legged metal with a wooden top school desk would have done nothing to save me from that, but what it did do is it instilled the fear frequency upon which mind control could run. Giant surprise, we're doing that over and over and and over again, and we don't seem to realize that all we have to do is take a step off that bus. We don't need to be on it anymore.
Speaker 2:We don't need to run the loop anymore.
Speaker 1:And so, it's always, I can never predict where our conversations will end up heading, which is why I always enjoy talking to you because I don't like predictable things. My brain is... I've got a creative brain. I like, you know, just being tossed into this new situation and just figuring things out. And...
Speaker 1:But I know that one of the conversations that we had, I think, may have been one of our most viral interviews that got, I think, a couple... A few million views. It was talking about how, basically, this evil system has already died. And that right now, we're Yeah. We're dealing with the mechanism of it.
Speaker 1:And Yeah. I wanna add... Because I wanna get into this with you, but I wanna add one other kind of caveat to that. So I I did a whole series, which I'm picking back up again, called the survivor series, where I interviewed Mhmm. Survivors of satanic ritual abuse, encounter programs, and people that came from inside of this system.
Speaker 1:And I think that that's why I've really... There's a lot of reasons. That's why... One of the reasons why I've really honed in on on these types of interviews, because I find that it it lifts the veil into what's really happening in the world. One of my guests, Max Lowen, was describing to me, what she had explained to me was that, basically, as you trace these power structures up higher and higher, you get above the corporations, above the banks, above even the families, that you end up into very small groups of people that are, you know, Luciferian is almost a kind word to tell them.
Speaker 1:Right? These people are really, taking direct instruction from very dark entities, nonhuman entities as she described it. Right? Which makes sense even from a biblical perspective. It's like, oh, yeah, Satan and the fallen angels, etcetera.
Speaker 1:But one thing she said is that she said that one pattern she noticed is that... And she described it as that whatever was at the top of that pyramid, those... That evil that was there is no longer there. She said some... You know, whether it was God ripping it out and destroying it or whatever it was, she said that that thing has been destroyed.
Speaker 1:And she said, since that's happened, that you've had all these subgroups now kinda going after each other, cannibalizing each other, fighting, and and, you know... But fundamentally, though, what she was really implying was that the head... The tip of the head... The snake, the head of the the dragon has been cut off. And that right now, we're living just with the inertia of of what was what was established under that system.
Speaker 1:And so I'd love to hear your thoughts on that because it's been probably two years since we last had that discussion. Yeah. So... Yeah. What what are your...
Speaker 1:Where are you at with this?
Speaker 2:Well, Seth, over the last eighteen months, I have done an enormous amount of work on my own life. You know, my beloved Kim pointed me in the direction of saying that the the face I had in the public and the the role I played in the public was not coherent with the man she saw in private, and that was a very difficult thing for me to hear. I had developed a very carefully constructed narrative around myself as a insight bearer, a foresight expert, analytical genius, public communicator, all those kinds of things. But what I had not done was I had not confronted that inside of me, was carrying frequencies of systems that I was exposed to, both governmental or religious, a number of different systems that I was carrying that had a very toxic effect on the relationships, most notably with her and with others, but the relationships I was interacting with where I saw myself as very separate, in some cases somewhat exceptional. I had a very carefully constructed narrative around the person I was, and that came not surprisingly from some of those programs.
Speaker 2:You know I had some very early, in my life, early exposure to some of the darkest programs that the United States government had, and so I had built a persona. As much as I would like to blame it on circumstances, and I would like to blame it on the people who influenced that, at the end of the day I had to face my accountability and my responsibility for what I was carrying forward. And so for about eighteen months, as you know, I largely stepped away from a lot of my public conversations, and I did that intentionally because I didn't want to really open my mouth until I found the space that was authentically and truly David. I needed to find me, and it turns out a lot of the programs that you're referring to are programs that had contaminated my life. I had to come face to face with some of the horrible things that were done in my early childhood.
Speaker 2:I had to come face to face with some of the horrible things that I had to work my way through, and I had to realize that while those events had happened to me, they did not justify the behavior that I had taken on to adapt to those things. And so part of my process was going through a real reconciliation between the man who was the illumined being that people saw and some of the shadows that I was not willing to face. And some of them were really difficult to face. I didn't know how I was going to get through, and I have been surrounded by love and grace and people who have helped me immeasurably. And as as I said, you know, Kim is at the top of that list in terms of people who have encouraged me to go on this path.
Speaker 2:The reason I bring this up is because I think that, you know, yes, the system as we understand the broken and evil system of the earth, I do think is an empire that's already crumbling. I do absolutely see that. But I think that one of the most terrible things, and I'm I'm saying this because I'm accountable for it, I think that there is a degree to which if we don't examine our own plaque that we're carrying from that old system into the new system, we're actually prolonging the demise of the very thing we wish would go away. And so if if, you know, if we don't do that inner examination, if we don't do the inner work, if we don't actually come face to face with the parts of our life that we've decided are unfit for social conversation or unfit for exposure, unfit for vulnerability, then I think we're holding ourselves in the system that is the very system we want to get rid of. And so I know that my journey has been one that has been very explicit of saying, you know, it's coming out of the Bible, right?
Speaker 2:Don't talk about the speck in your brother's eye if you have a plank in your own, right? I had to remove some real lumber out of my own experience, out of my own life, out of my own narrative, out of the stories I told myself so that I stopped even bothering with the speck in my brother's eye, and I started actually saying, Why don't we just wash our faces together and we'll be fine? And I think that as we go through the process of the unraveling of the system, the kingdom of the world that is the dark kingdom, as we go through that, I think it's really important to make sure that we don't sit absent accountability for the parts of those systems that we have propagated. And I know that for me, I had to do that examination, and what I found was some really, really messy stuff that I had to unwind. But I will tell you that on the other side of that process, and I wouldn't say I'm through it, but I'm...
Speaker 2:I would say I'm well on the way through it, I have found that fear of being seen, fear of being outspoken, fear of saying things that would shock people to know about David Martin, those things have all gone away. I think that as we lessen our ability to have, carry, and propagate fear, the more we accelerate the coming of a more beautiful expression of humanity and a more beautiful expression of the heaven on earth that I think is available. So it is a process, and thankfully, and I'm just filled with gratitude. Thankfully, I had a partner and I had a group of people who encouraged me on that journey so that I could get closer to the coherence of the person I know I was created to be.
Speaker 1:One quick question and then a much more difficult question. Quick question. Is that why the bow tie is no longer there that I'm so used to seeing on you? Is that part of that?
Speaker 2:It is part of that. And and, you know, it was funny. I I spent a lot of time looking at that. Now when I go to DC, I was there a couple weeks ago, and I... You know, when I wear a suit, I still wear a bow tie.
Speaker 2:But one of the things that the bow tie was doing was it was creating a space between me and others, and I wanted to have that space go away. So I wear it far less frequently to the point where most people would have been shocked to realize that I went for, I think, six months without putting on a tie at all. That's funny in a way, and it's really profound in a way because I wore it in homage to my grandfather, William Parsons, who I love very dearly, and he's the one that inspired the bow tie in the first place for me, but I realized that my wearing that bow tie was creating a space and a gap between me and the people that I cared about reaching, and once again, my beloved Kim was one of the ones to point that out. It's like, you know, is that what you want to do? And if you're doing it, are you conscious of its effect?
Speaker 2:And the fact of the matter is I was conscious of what I thought I was doing it for, but I wasn't thinking about what I thought and how that thought impacted other people's experience. So
Speaker 1:the bow tie was the easy question. Yeah. The other question is do you... Are you fine talking about some of the things that you had to work through? Some of the things that that...
Speaker 1:From earlier in life? Yeah. And you... Because I've I've... Because I've...
Speaker 1:As I mentioned, I've I've... And it's been... It's a tough journey, but I've I've spent dozens of hours going through, you know, some really, really hard stuff, with people. And and as I've looked back at my own life, I think I was very... I kinda dodged a bullet.
Speaker 1:I was I was in the gate program as a young kid for a couple of years, the enrichment program, and I think that I was in some of these feeder programs, I ended up just kind of dropping out and became a pretty normal kid growing up. I don't have any of these things, but, Yeah. So if anything that you want to share with us, I'd be really curious to hear.
Speaker 2:Well, probably a much longer conversation, Seth, and one where we would kind of lay some groundwork for it. But as most people know, I grew up in an extremely religious environment, and that environment was Mennonite for those of you who, you know, want the details. But in that environment, you know, we were taught a very simple topic, and I'll pick one of them. We were taught what it meant to have an intimate relationship with a partner. And so for us, you know, the idea of dating, the idea of having multiple girlfriends, or anything else was anathema to our tradition.
Speaker 2:And so, you know, the first woman who I married was the woman who was the first with whom I had intimacy, and I expected that... I'll give you a very simple example. I expected that marriage was kind of like a driver's license. Marriage was your permission to have sex. Marriage was your permission to have intimacy.
Speaker 2:At no point did I ever receive any training on what intimacy was. How do you really engage with a woman who you love? How do you really listen and care about the needs that a woman has? That was never part of the training. The training was you wait, you wait, you wait, you wait, you wait, and then you get your learner's permit and then you're off driving, and it's like, woah, woah, woah, woah, hold on a second.
Speaker 2:But this is a very simple example, but a very complex one that I had to work my way through, which is how do I understand intimacy when there were moments of the desecration of my body that happened earlier in my life, then when I actually enter into a situation where I am actually now thinking that I'm sanctioned or authorized to have intimacy, I had built an expectation that said that because I was told that after marriage this whole part of your life, this whole sexual energy thing was now sanctioned and was authorized, I never knew that I actually had to be present, not performative. I had to be respectful, not acquisitional. I had to have a whole bunch of tools and not once in any of my growing up was that topic ever addressed. Now, fast forward through what became a relationship that ended thirteen years ago this month with my first wife. At the end of that, I thought that I had suffered because I did not have the experience that I thought I should have had.
Speaker 2:Then I meet Kim, we start a relationship, but I still did not understand what it meant to relate. So rather than stepping into a pause and saying, hey, why don't I figure out my life? How about I figure out what it means to be a man in relationship with your wife? Like, before stepping into that, I should have, and now I can see the consequence of not doing it, but I should have paused and said, Before I try to enter into someone else's life, I should get my own life sorted out, and not transfer those belief systems from one relationship to the next because that's exactly what I did, and that caused immeasurable hurt that was never necessary, never beneficial, but it was something that I have to take accountability for. That's a perfect example of something where the programming of the old system, and by the way, some very, very explicit programming that, you know, like I said, another conversation I can share some of that.
Speaker 2:But when you realize that something as subtle as and something is supposedly straightforward as I'm a guy that's been committed, cause when I said yes to marriage, I thought I knew what I was meaning. I thought I knew what fidelity meant. I thought I knew what relationship meant, and over the last eighteen months I've realized I had no concept, and the reason is simple and it's singular and it's profound, and that is I did not love me. I did not love the man I was and I did not love the man I was created to be. I loved at best the performance that I put in every single day to be a performer, but I did not love myself.
Speaker 2:And I did not know that it is possible to come up through a Christian tradition and still accept loving yourself as an acceptable thing. I was taught that you couldn't love yourself because that was ego and that was, you know, self absorption and that was all those things. And I didn't realize that that's not what the problem is. The problem is your absence of being able to say that something about being fearfully and wonderfully made as you is not just sufficient, but it is part of a very divine orchestrated plan that says you as you are specifically put here for a specific reason. And as long as I believe the story, which came across every Sunday morning, every Sunday evening, every Wednesday evening, every Saturday evening, you know, every...
Speaker 2:You know, whether it was bible school or sermons or anything else, every message that I had gotten was that I was broken, I was a failure, and I had to perform to even have a chance of success in life. And that system for me had to be excised, And excising something at the age of 59, which is a cancer that started when you were days old, is a process that took me a long time. And I would say that while I now have clear insight into that, I see how much of that energy was hijacked by the system that relies on shame, that relies on self doubt, that relies on a dismissal of your own worth, those systems that pray, as you said before, they're parasites. They prey on human life, and those systems had figured out a long time ago how to make sure that their hooks were set. And tragically, for a lot of people that I care about in my life, I allowed those hooks in myself longer than I should have, and it took me eighteen months to get rid of
Speaker 1:That's what... It's it's an interesting point that you're... Well, there's a lot of things that you've said, but one thing that I'm I'm pulling from this that I hear that you're saying is that, of course, we have this broken world that we're trying to fix, we're trying to navigate. Actually that what makes up that broken world is the combination of all these people that were broken by that world at a very young age. And if we are not able to address those things simultaneously Yes.
Speaker 1:Then it's it's like going to a war. You're on the front line of the battle, and you've got, you know, you've got your leg as an infection, and you're... And you can barely walk because of it. And how are you gonna be how are you gonna be efficient on the battlefield and fighting?
Speaker 2:Correct. Correct. And and so I I have I have made it my commitment now, and I have a number of people who I'm working with very directly where I have extremely open and transparent conversations about how the... To use your analogy, how the infection was introduced into my system and the pathway that I've taken to actually start dealing with it, and it is... Well, it's been very effective.
Speaker 2:I've helped a lot of people, but I realized even that was something I had to examine. You know, one of the deepest shadows or darknesses that I know infected my life was the belief that I was a healer, and that my relationships and my interactions with people were to help fix the things that they were struggling with. Well, guess what? That means you run around the world looking for things that are wrong, and you look at relationships and you try to find the things that are wrong that you can fix. Well, that's horrible when you stop and think about it because what you're doing is you're looking for not the light in people, but you're looking for the distortions or the darkness and thinking somehow you're going to bring light.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that's actually the definition of Lucifer, isn't it? The light bringer. Know? And so there's a difference between being light and bringing light, and it's subtle. But I think an enormous number of people, and I'll put myself on that list, actually had my own Lucifer where I was bringing light in a form that I was like, look, I can see this thing and then you're gonna fix this thing and I can...
Speaker 2:You know, I was bringing light, but I wasn't being light. And I didn't know the difference. Now I do. And so I'm trying to be much more careful about that. And like anything else, it's a journey.
Speaker 2:I'm learning a new language. I'm learning a new way of being. I'm learning a new way of interacting, but I offer this conversation as encouragement to say if a person who had whatever the illusions that people have around me, if a person had those illusions and then they can hear me speak about this with this candor, what I hope is that people can take from that the encouragement that says, Oh, if Dave can do it, maybe it's a thing that I can do, and maybe it's encouraging. So if anything else, I would move myself into a position of not fixer, but an encourager. I'd like to encourage people that it's painful and it's challenging and it's entirely worth the journey.
Speaker 1:Well, I can tell you that at least in my conversations with you, of which we've had many for long, long hours, I've never left those conversations feeling dark or negative. I've always felt we had some sort of revolve, even... It resolved, even though we talk about dark and negative and scary things. And I just... My my sense was always that you were just someone that just kind of naturally radiated that, just with your your perspective and your worldview.
Speaker 1:And, hopefully, that's... I think that that's also been carried through to the the people that tuned into our discussions. And so, you know, yeah, it's it's... But... Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think
Speaker 2:that the joy the joy of accepting that there is always a refining next, and there's always a purification next, and there's always a way to to make the instrument closer to the tune that is truly yours. I think that the ability to live in the mystery of the unfolding next is absolutely spectacular, and I don't look at my previous way of living necessarily through the lens of judgment, saying it was wrong, but I would say that I look at it and say there were distortions that I know I could clear up, and that's what I'm grateful that I've been able to do.
Speaker 1:Well, good. Well, it's, I can see it. And not just because I'm not seeing a bowtie on you. Well, David, I... We're we're wrapping up here, which seems like it's a kind of conclusion to at least this discussion, and we'll probably have another one.
Speaker 1:We can go deeper some... In other things. I wanna bring up your website so people can follow what you're doing. It's davidmartin.world. And for people that are looking at this or they wanna, you know, find out more of what you're doing, walk them through what this website represents.
Speaker 2:Well, this is, this is a website that I collaborated with my dear friend, Dan Goldstein, to create. And this now becomes kind of the library of my music, my speaking, my writing, my blogs show up. This becomes a single point of interaction where people have the ability to kind of stay current with the thoughts and musings and just in time information, your interview will be up on this. You know, it's just a way of keeping people informed as to kind of where my mind is wandering at a particular point in time. My two albums are up there.
Speaker 2:I have two albums on all the different streaming platforms. The first one, Call of the Wild, and the second one, the Eros Mass, are up on, Spotify, iTunes, and every place, YouTube, any any place you get your music. And I'm trying to help people see that there is a broader dimensionality than people otherwise knew.
Speaker 1:Well, good. Well, David, as usual, it's great speaking with you. I look forward to next time and hope to keep in touch with you, as we do. You know, every so often, we're kind of poking and just checking in on things. But again, thank you for giving us your time today.
Speaker 1:Thank you for what you've done. And I hope that if there's one thing that we can leave this with... Leave from this conversation, is just don't fall into the fear. Don't get consumed by the fear. Whether it's a new plague, whether it's a new terrorist threat, we have to rise above that.
Speaker 1:Right? The the very simple thing of just faith over fear.
Speaker 2:There you go. Seth, it's always good to see you, and I'm looking forward to our next conversation.
Speaker 1:Thank you, David. Thank you. I've looked at a lot of different parasite cleanses. I've done a lot of them. This one looks phenomenal.
Speaker 1:Not to mention it's developed by this guy who's been doing this for fifty years. So I would recommend you do the stool test to see if you do have any parasites, or if you have Lyme issues to kind of pinpoint exactly what's going on. But I've done these parasite cleanses before, not this exact one, but these are very, very potent, very powerful. And I actually really trust the one that was developed by the guy who's been doing this for over fifty years. So the URL to go directly to this cleanse is sethcleanse.com.
Speaker 1:So again, that's sethcleanse.com. We'll take you straight to this page right here to make it easy for you. And, you give it a shot. Yeah, give it a shot. Me know what you think.
Speaker 1:Thank you.