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WELCOME BACK TO LEAFS LATE NIGHT! Presented by Inside The Rink
Roscoe / Galaxy Biehn
- Keefes PIMs
- Wolltending
- Robidas Island Welcomes You
- Time For a Change?
- Marner for ____
Roscoe / Galaxy Biehn
- Keefes PIMs
- Wolltending
- Robidas Island Welcomes You
- Time For a Change?
- Marner for ____
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Creators & Guests
Host
What is Leafs Late Night?
WELCOME to Leafs Late Night, Where It's Never Too Late For The Leafs!
Presented by Inside The Rink
www.insidetherink.com
Join us after EVERY GAME for a breakdown of each period, Leafs and NHL news, wild stories, and hot take games. Hosted by Roscoe with The Fanalyst, Suthy, Biehner, and Darty Brodeur
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Roscoe (00:00.93)
So we might as well start recording. Welcome back to Leafs Late Night. You're... what did I used to say? I haven't said it in a while. Where it's never too late for the Leafs. That's what I came up with long ago. Welcome back. It's been a bit of a time. You know, the Leafs took a little bit of a trip over to Sweden to play in the Avicii Dome, which fun fact, is the sun in a country-wide...
scale model of the solar system, which is really cool. I thought the other ones would be buildings as well, but I looked it up and the other ones are like little monuments and stuff and like gardens. They're little, you know, like balls that like, and for those not watching, it's like basketball sized or, you know, maybe a little bigger. Some of them are quite small as well, but the only one that's a real building is the Avicii Dome. So tangent, but that's where the leaps have been. And that's kind of a metaphor for where we've been is mentally in Sweden.
Biehner (00:54.883)
That whole thing.
Biehner (00:59.697)
That whole thing makes me kind of think of something that would be described to me in a Dan Brown movie, a la Da Vinci Code.
Roscoe (01:08.098)
Yeah, like it seems very national treasure, like, you know, they get there and there's a map and they're like, oh, the these things line up and it's the solar system and we got to get to like the planets and there's something hidden there and unlocks the key to the universe.
Biehner (01:24.059)
Is that your Nicolas Cage impersonation?
Roscoe (01:27.039)
I kind of gave up on it part way through and just went with what I was, I went with what I landed on.
Biehner (01:29.223)
Hahahaha
Roscoe (01:36.77)
We're still the Declaration of Independence. But yeah, so the Leafs had quite a trip. Willie continued his streak up until the Chicago game, reaching 17 games. That's pretty cool. But yeah, it was a bit of the same. The Stars shining and Matthew Nyes and Nick Robertson emerging as everyday roster players with this team. But otherwise, oof, things are.
a little rough. Thankfully Joseph Wall is hanging in there giving us some what do I how do I put this call it when Jack Campbell was good level goaltending enough to cover these guys asses but maybe not enough to cover for the defense having a horrible night but they've been getting by but yeah I guess the news out of Sweden is that John
sitting too long on the plane has re-injured his hip. It's a very simple way to put it. I guess he's been nursing something for years. It's well known that he's had a couple surgeries on it so he wanted to play badly but long plane rides are not going to be good on a hip that you're already not feeling good on so he can't and isn't playing and by the sounds of it might not so we will get to that later but first Justin and I were looking at
regarding Sheldon Keefe. And what was that crazy stat, Justin?
Biehner (03:10.021)
That was the fact that I think he's going to be challenging Tye Domi by the end of his career for penalty minutes.
Roscoe (03:18.615)
Yeah, as I just said on Twitter or X, whatever you call it, if Keith actually took the penalty minutes for bench minors, he would be third on the team this year with 16 penalty minutes only behind Max Domi and Mark Giordano, who both took game as conduct this season. So that would have Keith at 16 minutes because the Leafs already through 19 games have had
Benchminers that's crazy. If you look at his record with the Leafs if we can Assume that more hockey stats here more hockey stats comm shout out is correct Since taking over the Leafs in 1920 through 310 games Sheldon Keefe has taken 38 Benchminers, that's point one two three per game. The only coach with 300 or more games coached with a worse
Staff than that is DJ Smith who came from Toronto. So clearly changing lines is not something that Toronto does well and doesn't instill in their assistant coaches either. So this is a problem. Point one, two, three on your career is a problem. But I mean, he's at like point four or five on the season. Like these guys changing lines, I know is you can't force somebody to get off the ice faster. But at the end of the day.
It's a bench miner for a reason. It's on him.
Biehner (04:47.981)
It definitely is and we've touched on it a couple times over the course of this interesting start to the season that we've had and even over the past handful of years, basically since Leafs late night has been going, Keefe has been taking bench minors. And it's kind of baffling. It's definitely got to be on the coaches because you don't see it happening everywhere else. It's just...
Roscoe (05:04.317)
Yupp.
Biehner (05:18.185)
so odd that they can't get it under wraps. And then I had to do some digging. Like it's not the greatest numbers, but when you were talking about Joseph Wall giving us goaltending, if you had to take all the goalies who have started a minimum of eight games this year, right? Because teams have played anywhere from 20 to like 15, 16 games. So minimum eight games played.
probably going to be your number one. Where would you think wall would be, same percentage wise? There's 46 goalies that have played at least eight games.
Roscoe (05:58.326)
Just taking a stab at what wall safe percentage is. Nine, 10.
Biehner (06:02.449)
Like just like where he is out of 46.
Roscoe (06:06.894)
Oh, like what place he is? Um.
Roscoe (06:13.518)
Jesus, there's been some really bad goaltending all around this year, but like, it's also some solid staples. I'm gonna put them like 20th, 18th, like in that range.
Biehner (06:25.913)
Not bad, 18th with yet Conor Hellebuck, Joseph Walls at 16.
Roscoe (06:30.855)
Whoa, hell bucks that bad?
Biehner (06:33.888)
Hellebuck's at 908 and Wal's at 909. So below.
Roscoe (06:37.326)
Okay, 908, 909, that's... Yeah, neither of them awful, not great.
Biehner (06:44.089)
Yeah, below where you would want them to be. Aiden Hills leading the league with a ridiculous 9.32.
Roscoe (06:48.342)
That's funny, I guessed he was at a 910 and he's at a 909. Let's go. That was almost on the money.
Biehner (06:53.113)
Yeah, should Galaxy Roscoe not Galaxy Bean?
Roscoe (06:57.727)
I should get into sports betting, the only thing that I keep holding off from.
Biehner (07:04.239)
So he's been giving us adequate goaltending slightly above league average right now, but you would hope it would improve over the course of the season because that number historically would be below league average.
Roscoe (07:16.198)
Yeah, and I mean, he's had sub par defensemen or not defensemen, but defending efforts in front of him this season. I think Brody's been playing below his standard. Obviously, Klingberg was playing hurt and then not at all. So now we've got not to knock them, but Lagas and Ben while both being in the lineup is not something that you want on a team that's going for the Stanley Cup. Not that they're bad. It's that falls off pretty quick. So.
There were talks before and now it's I guess all gonna ramp up But before we get to that yeah, just I think if they can fix that it will help walls numbers I just I don't know how much help you can feasibly bring in I mean going for going on LTI R is a bit of cap space, but it's not a ton It's like what four point something so
It's still it's not like you're bringing in a world-changing defenseman here to fix the team. So we'll see
Biehner (08:12.475)
Yeah.
Biehner (08:20.709)
Well, that being said, it doesn't have to be a Norris trophy guy, it just has to be the right guy for this situation. Like, look at the impact Shen had on the team last year.
Roscoe (08:30.382)
No, that's true. The problem is just going to be getting somebody that doesn't have Toronto on their no trade list that is impactful. I mean, that's look at Shen. I mean, the only reason he's not here is because he didn't want to play in Canada. And, you know, that just narrows the list down. So I think if you're in a situation like I know we keep going back to Tanev and Zadorov, but it just it kind of makes sense if you can get them because they don't have that trade protection and.
Biehner (08:52.378)
Zdorov
Roscoe (08:59.938)
Calgary is willing to move them. Like, there's not a lot of partners out there right now, like especially for defensemen that are effective. Like not many teams are in, in sell-off mode. There's a lot of teams that were supposed to be bad that are playing well and teams that are supposed to be good that don't really know what to do next. So.
Calgary is one of the few.
Biehner (09:20.08)
On the bright side, we do have Hill to be down in the Marlies as well. Seven games.
Roscoe (09:24.078)
Oh god. I just look at what's going on with Devon Levi and I worry about bringing these guys up early.
Biehner (09:31.121)
Seven games played. He's got a 3-2-2 record, which doesn't look the greatest, but he's stingy 142 goals against the average and a 943 save percentage.
Roscoe (09:42.518)
But again, see, he's only 22 and that's what worries me is like their numbers look good. And then you do a Buffalo Day and you go, hey, let's see if it works when it never does. And it hasn't. And now Uka Pekka-Lukinen, who I learned. Did you know what his nickname is?
Biehner (10:00.61)
No.
Roscoe (10:01.65)
Okay, it took me a second to realize I was in the comments on his fantasy thing. 6K, because there's 6Ks in his name.
Biehner (10:13.495)
That's hilarious.
Roscoe (10:14.834)
Right? I was like, who is 6K? They were like, this guy or 6K tonight. I was like, 6K, 6K. And then his name's on the top. Like, holy shit, there are 6Ks in his name. That's amazing. I also I don't know if anyone else has ever called him this, but I noticed that it's just sitting there low hanging fruit. Why is no one calling Flurry the wildflower since he's been in Minnesota?
Biehner (10:39.764)
I can't say it with 100% certainty, but I think I have seen it somewhere. Not like from media or anything, just on Twitter, but I do think I have seen it somewhere.
Roscoe (10:50.19)
I've been trying to make it a thing. So maybe you've seen mine. I just, I feel like it should have been right when he landed in Minnesota, like we landed the wildflower. Like it's just, it's right there.
Biehner (11:04.392)
Careful, you're gonna get the athletic mad at you again.
Roscoe (11:08.07)
Oh, fuck off. Always paying to somebody free. It's like, oh, don't even get me started. Okay.
Biehner (11:19.386)
Okay, you can't use that argument because you don't even get accurate sports stats. And there's all these free sites out here.
So not to be a jerk, but you gotta.
Roscoe (11:31.351)
Shout out to them. ICdata.hockey. You guys are the best.
Um, no shade. They probably are awesome. So, uh, yeah, I feel like the fact that wall is, um, decent as long as they can fix what's in front of him. That's good. But I really don't like that. Last season it was, Oh, no, Oh, no. And then Oh, no, we're down to wall. And now it's well, we only have wall and if he gets hurt, we're fucked. So I really don't like the situation there.
like the depth scares me so as much as everyone's talking about oh we gotta bring in defensemen like we're a groin injury away from having like an abysmal two months if what if samsonov was in net tonight this is a bit of a blowout like this was not within a comeback of pulling the goalie right like
Biehner (12:21.915)
Mothers.
Biehner (12:29.729)
Oh, it definitely was not. But that being said, we do have Jones down there. We do have Hildeby who's been playing great. Like, it's not like we have me down there.
Roscoe (12:39.642)
doesn't make me feel better. No, but essentially, I mean, Martin Jones, who's a career 888, safe percentage, and Dennis Hildeby, who's 22, doesn't make me feel better. Like, this is something that seems to be kind of going unnoticed as everyone's talking about Klingberg in the defense and Zdorov and Tanev and oh, what's he gonna do? Like, oh, what are the Oilers gonna do about their goaltending? What are fucking we gonna do? Like we're, and I don't want to be in a situation where
wall is injured and all of a sudden the leafs are in a corner and everyone's going, okay, well the price just went up. Like, they got to address this before it's glaring to everyone that they don't have much of an option here to back up anybody, whether it's, you know, wall or whoever.
Biehner (13:27.565)
Yeah, but pretty much every team would be in that situation if their 1A or 1B got injured.
Like aside from Carolina, who's been actively carrying three goalies for five years.
Roscoe (13:36.482)
Yeah, but my-
Roscoe (13:42.054)
My point is last year we had both our guys go down and we landed on the wall and that's how we're in this position. Like we don't have that much of a safety net behind wall that I feel good about putting in there. You know, he was ready to start taking over. Like we got to that point, you know, at the right time. There's nobody else who's really at the age or in Martin Jones's case, NHL caliber level to take over.
if wall goes down for a month or two, which is typically what goalie injuries are like.
I know I'm just sounding the bell, but yeah, and that team is now in dead fucking last if you're talking about the... Oh, you're talking about... Yeah, San Jose? Yeah.
Biehner (14:18.46)
Martin Jones led a team to the Stanley Cup Final.
Biehner (14:27.845)
The Sharks. Yeah, but they also have, what, one player on the team who was there at that point?
Roscoe (14:36.298)
Velasic and is it is that it yeah couture wouldn't Yeah, that's fair so I guess to go off of that Eric Carlson
Biehner (14:36.785)
classic. Couture, I guess, would have been there. Couture would have been there.
Roscoe (14:50.23)
Oh, this guy doesn't go away. He's continuing his resurgence and he looked good tonight. I mean, not defensively, but you never really has. But it's nice to see that he can still shoot the puck from literally like one foot on the other side of the blue line, as far back as humanly possible. And rip like 90 plus miles an hour. Like, it's crazy what this guy can still do.
Biehner (15:14.617)
Well, I was far back while still being inside the zone. Yeah, that was pretty much basically Dubis just showing his shiny new toy. Like, look what I got!
Roscoe (15:17.299)
Exactly.
Roscoe (15:25.054)
Well, also rubbing a chari in our faces all night. Like, hey, look what I have. And hey, remember when I brought this in and you guys said I was stupid? I'm going to make you play against them all night. I don't care that I have Crosby and Malcolm. You're going to see a chari every chance I get. So fucking Christ.
Biehner (15:44.217)
And realistically, that was probably the biggest oopsie Wal had tonight was the Achari goal. Like aside from that, he's been playing great, especially for someone so young, just a lot of sloppy passes, just kind of, I don't know if absent mindedness would be the right way to describe it of.
Roscoe (15:49.995)
Yep.
Biehner (16:12.185)
maybe your coverage, who you're covering or where you're supposed to be covering from almost the entire team.
Roscoe (16:16.438)
Well, it's like I've been saying. It's like I've been saying since the year started, like they've been missing passes. They've been like, you know, the puck goes between two guys and neither of them go for it. It's like watching in baseball when two fielders run for the pop fly. Nobody calls it like these guys seem like they're not communicating well. And I don't know at what point this comes back to coaching or if it's just the mix of new guys not clicking like it's because I mean, Domi's been
finding something working with Robertson and Bertuzzi's finally starting to turn things around. So it doesn't seem like it's individually the new guys that are having problems. Like it's, you know, it's Marner and Riley that don't see where the pass is going. Like one once in a blue moon or like, you know, Nyland are falling because he didn't see that Tavares was going for it. Like it's guys that shouldn't be making the mistakes. It's like I don't know what's in their heads. They've been playing well, but it's like they'll play well for, you know.
35 40 minutes and then the other 20 it's like what are we watching right now like
Biehner (17:20.333)
That being said though, they have been carrying the team. Like I know we're not leading the league or anything, but they have been, and yes, they're paid to do that. That's their position with their salary hits and everything like that. And the status they've had on this team for years. But like everybody has off nights. Gretzky had off nights, Broder had off nights. And I'm not trying to say that there's not things that are worrying.
Roscoe (17:23.72)
Exactly.
Biehner (17:50.021)
with how they've been playing, because there definitely is. But before we go harping on Marner, this game was a little on the iffy side for him. But at this point last season, he had the same amount of points as you guys right now. And he almost hit 100 points last year.
Roscoe (18:03.182)
for sure.
Roscoe (18:11.202)
He is always slow to start. He always picks it up around Christmas time. This year it was Willie that started off hot. I mean, it's always somebody has a good start to the season and then between I guess him and Matthews and Tavarez, one of them starts really hot and then Marner picks it up later. It's been how it's been. I don't know why. It's like, you know, I can call on a million Ed's texts where he's like, this team doesn't need a medical staff any more than they need a therapist. Like it's...
I don't know what's going on. It's head games that get the better of them. Like you said, the guys have been playing well, but I haven't seen them play well for an entire 60 minutes. It's like they let themselves get behind and they have to turn it on. Or, you know, it's I'm just frustrated with the lack of effort and like lack of watching a cup contending team is, I guess, the best way to put it. Like all the hype in the offseason about what we put together and all the
You know, Biz and all these other reporters talking about how, like, you know, on paper, this team should be fantastic and outperform last season and what we've seen through 19 or 20 games now is not that.
Biehner (19:23.949)
It definitely hasn't been. Excuse me, sorry.
Biehner (19:32.653)
I don't want to go back there, but what was it, three, four episodes ago, I maybe expressed my thoughts that maybe we might have to do something with regards to the coach.
Roscoe (19:46.606)
Mm-hmm.
Biehner (19:46.917)
Like, we're seeing all this, the coverage questions, the constant bench miners, the inability to get everybody on the same page within a timely manner. Like, we're at American Thanksgiving. This is the quote unquote flagpole for if you're not in the playoffs at this point, chances are you're not making it.
Roscoe (20:14.606)
To be fair, the season does start a little later now, so we should push that.
Biehner (20:19.265)
Yeah, but it's what everybody says, right? So, yeah, if you're looking at that kind of thing, like, and I know some teams have made it work, but for a team that is struggling to play defensively responsible hockey, is it just me or is it a little strange that you would go 11 and 7? I get it. Some of like, geos played a lot of minutes right now. So sit up, like,
One of the oddest and strangest things for defensemen, at least like, I know it's beer league, I'm not trying to compare it to the NHL, but my beer league team, if you have an odd number of defensemen, it just messes everything up that much more because every shift the person you're playing with is different. Now you may have been playing with that person on your team for years and know them and everything like that, but compared to going out the same shift, you're with the same D partner every shift.
Something as simple as that when you're already not playing your best game, to me, seems like a risk you wouldn't want to take until you get everything sorted. Like why call Steve's up if you're going to go 11 and 7?
Roscoe (21:31.558)
Yeah, it seemed like he put a lot of pressure on the top two lines who were not having the best night and he didn't have a fallback because they decided to go 11 and 7. So you kind of handcuff yourself there. And like you said, if it's a matter of you're trying to protect either Gio or even Timmons minutes because he's maybe not at 100 percent yet or Gio is not feeling 100 percent, then don't play one or the other. Like, I don't understand either. Yeah, like you had the option to play one and then the other.
Biehner (21:54.365)
especially in a back-to-back.
Roscoe (21:59.798)
in both games if you want to see where they're at or give one of them the night off if they're not 100% it's just it doesn't make sense to like let me pull up the minutes uh because i want to see what the point of this actually was when it came down to ice time go game center give me a sec okay
Biehner (22:18.033)
Are you actually pulling up Game Center?
Roscoe (22:19.91)
Yes, I actually am. So McKay. Okay, here, Riley 2345 McCabe 2050. Brody 18. Geo 15.
Roscoe (22:41.534)
So this I don't get, like, sit Benoit or sit Timmons if he's not ready yet, like, it just doesn't make sense. Because you ended up playing Matthews for 24 minutes, Marner for 23 and a half, Neelander played 26. Like, why, why do this early in the season after on the second night of a back to back to them?
Biehner (22:54.201)
Like.
Biehner (23:07.965)
Well, and that's the thing, like there were shifts out there where Nylander looked physically exhausted. And I get it, you can get that over the course of a regular game depending on icings or whatever happens. But... When you're that tired, the chances of injury increase like... Tenfold. So why would you want to risk one of your stars getting hurt? Because you're over... Playing them so they're exhausted, trying to over-exert themselves in that exhaustion just to...
make that one play to get off the ice. And like you said, at this point in the season, it's just there's a there's a lot of little decisions that kind of make you go, huh? That maybe we've overlooked the last couple years because everything's been hunky dory. We've been 100, 105 point team, whatever. But when like at this point when things aren't going your way, you need to start seriously looking at things.
Roscoe (23:48.417)
and
Roscoe (24:06.186)
And I mean, I brought this up a few episodes ago, like how much of these hundred plus point seasons that Keefe is, you know, breaking records with, can you attribute to him? I mean, he's been given very, very good players that score, outscore their problems. I mean, it's essentially the Oilers with a, like one A and one B of McDavid and Drysaddle. Like we have a second line to outscore our problems that they don't have. That's kind of the difference.
Very simply, that's the difference that I see between the Leafs and the Oilers situation. So, Keefe gets to coast behind a really good power play and a really good top two lines. That, like we've said, the goaltending rarely matters that much. The defense has been mediocre to okay over the course of his tenure. I mean, the only staple has really, like Riley and Brody have been there through his time, and that's about it, I think.
Like really, how much of it can you attribute to him? Because at the end of the day, the things that we've lost on in the playoffs are either lineup decisions, you know, playing Nyland or at center or goaltending choices or like the power play or the penalty kill falling apart. Like it's always coaching things that hold this team back from getting to the next level. Like they can only get themselves so far. So I think like you're right, you know, now.
that things are really not going well and you can put the microscope on everything. It's, I think it's time to look at what we do about Keef.
Biehner (25:43.641)
Well, and it's really interesting because after he took over, like there was a noticed change to the way the team played. Like they've never been the devils of the 90s where they're going to shut everything down and you get five shots against the goalie again. But as a team, they might not have had the best defensive defenseman on the team in the
But as a team, the overall team defense was better. Like we made Jack Campbell an All-Star. Right? So.
Roscoe (26:20.746)
Yep. We've made a lot of people all-stars. We've made a lot of people a lot of money.
Biehner (26:26.661)
Like, this is the first season that when the defense itself has been struggling, it's almost appeared like the forwards aren't, not all of them, but aren't coming back to help out. Like I'm not saying everybody up front is just mailing it in defensively, but there's definitely been a notice change compared to the last handful of years.
Roscoe (26:54.882)
I'm just looking at the longest tenured coaches currently. So you got John Cooper, Mike Sullivan, Jared Bednar, Rod Brindimore, Craig Berube, DJ Smith, Todd McClellan, Sheldon Keefe.
Biehner (27:00.317)
Cooper.
Roscoe (27:13.51)
So, I mean, outside of DJ Smith and Craig Barube, I mean, these are teams that have had success, have either won Stanley Cups or won multiple rounds. I mean, keeps really, what do we got here? Postseason, oh, I can't see postseason record on here. Like, I don't know.
It just seems like he's gotten, he's got a great winning percentage with the team. But I mean, again, the team's got a great winning percentage with him. It's chicken or egg situation. Like I think the, the coaching is the thing that can make a difference. When it, when you look outside of star players and that's where this team falls. So I'm, I'm not against the change there. Like I've, I've been a supporter of him for a while.
it's been hard to see any issues when the team goes on crazy streaks. And, you know, like last season, we had Marner go on a 23 game point streak. And, you know, there's been bright spots. And I mean, like, like Campbell going on an 11 game win streak, like things. Individuals have shined enough to distract from any issues there. So. Yeah.
Biehner (28:30.725)
They definitely have. It's just, it's... It's really weird. Like I know as Leaf fans we go through a lot of shit every season. Um... Doesn't matter what it is, whether it's contract negotiations, coaches getting fired, goalies getting hurt, like there's always something. And I know it's not just the Leafs, but everything with regards to Toronto gets completely blown out of proportion, even if it's something little. Because of the way the media is. Like...
To be at American Thanksgiving and to be in the second wild card spot in the East, it's a little concerning. Like only two points back, but still.
Roscoe (29:12.206)
Yeah, I mean, this is where we had the Leafs winning the president's trophy, and we wanted them to just coast through the season. That was how we were talking preseason and even after the first game.
Biehner (29:22.534)
I didn't.
We can go back and listen. I didn't want them winning the president's trophy. It's a cursed, it's cursed.
Roscoe (29:28.094)
Not winning the president's trophy necessarily. I, but we had them being in the top three in the league. Right? Like this was supposed to be a season where it was just, you know, like last year by December or January, we know who we're playing and it's just make sure everybody's okay and make some little tweaks from there on out. But instead it's holy shit. We gotta make sure that we don't end up playing Boston in the first round because we're the wild card.
Biehner (29:58.609)
Well, as of right now, we would play New York.
Roscoe (30:03.214)
Oh true, yeah, that'd be interesting. I haven't played a Metro team in a while.
Biehner (30:08.729)
Yeah. If playoffs were to start right now, it would be Boston versus Detroit, New York versus us, and then the Battle of Florida and Philly versus Washington in the East.
Roscoe (30:22.67)
That's pretty good. I can't believe Philly's in a playoff spot. Washington also making a huge comeback after a shit start to their season, even though the Oilers of all teams, uh, stomped them five nothing I saw. So whether that's a sign of things to come from the Oilers or not, we'll see.
Biehner (30:39.877)
Like, the Oilers are eight points back of the second wild skirt spot in the West.
Roscoe (30:46.406)
Yeah, I mean, like everyone's saying, it's hard to count them out because they could just turn a switch and win, you know, 16 of 20 games or something. But like, even then, you're also having to bank on other teams losing. Like they're that far back that just a win streak alone isn't going to do it. So
Biehner (30:51.965)
Thank you.
Roscoe (31:08.486)
I don't know, like who's above them that we think could fall here? Let me pull up the West.
Biehner (31:14.777)
Realistically, Anaheim, Nashville, Arizona.
Roscoe (31:19.438)
Oh. Ha ha. Yeah. I mean...
Biehner (31:22.161)
Pretty much everybody's above them. Ha ha ha.
Roscoe (31:25.922)
But who's in the wild, okay, so St. Louis and Seattle. I mean, they're both so-so teams. They're eight points behind their, you know, third place Vancouver Canucks here, so.
Shit. The West sucks, man.
Biehner (31:47.17)
It's crazy. Like the fact that you have an eight point spread in the Pacific division from third to the wild card.
Roscoe (31:56.03)
Yeah, that's pretty bad. I mean, the East is just kind of descending by points outside of the Rangers and Bruins who have 31, which is absurd. Like, I actually didn't notice how good the Rangers were doing, how well the Rangers were doing, sorry. Anyway, so what I want to move to is obviously the Swedish elephant in the room.
that John Klingberg goes to what we don't want to call it Roba Island, but I don't know. What do we call it? We sent him to Greenland?
Biehner (32:36.125)
I know it's pretty much guaranteed to be Roboto Island. And before anybody is starting to say, oh, this needs to be investigated, how does this help the Leafs?
Roscoe (32:52.362)
It doesn't and you can't put anybody on LTIR without them checking in on it. So the league knows that he can't play. And the reports that I've seen is like anyone who was on the plane with them. I forget who it was. Sorry. Um, was it Mike Johnson that said he was like physically, you could see he couldn't walk getting out of his seat on the plane. So like, how do you expect this guy to play hockey? It sucks that the Leafs, um, I'd say overspent on somebody that, you know,
Biehner (32:53.465)
like realistically.
Biehner (33:03.953)
Mike Johnson.
Roscoe (33:21.758)
had a history of this and didn't really have like if he was if he's already broken this point like I don't know. It just seems like how much better was he in the summer and at the end of last season that they didn't see this coming. I'm surprised he got as much as 4 million. On the other hand, there's the weird part of it that it does give the Leafs quite a bit of money to play with. It's always the flip side of the coin, right?
Biehner (33:52.289)
It does, but like, if they didn't sign Clingbird, could they potentially sign Dumba?
Roscoe (34:00.158)
Yes, but would Dumba have signed in Toronto? Maybe not.
Biehner (34:01.785)
Right, like... Yeah, there's no way of really knowing unless you've actually talked to the guy, but... It just seems like a really strange... Mm-hmm.
Roscoe (34:11.07)
It sounds like Klingberg wasn't their first choice. Like it sounds like they did talk to other people. And like if somebody, and like it's the same deal with Klingberg, if nobody's willing to take a swing at this guy because he's so hurt, like this is what happens. So, dance partners.
Biehner (34:26.553)
Just seems like a strange risk to take if it was known how injured he was.
Roscoe (34:34.898)
Especially when you're the new GM in town and you're really trying to go for it and change the culture and make your mark like Taking a swing like this the season after Matt murray, like it it's such a risky move so, I mean now we're here and To be fair. I do Like the idea of getting to make this move now Sometime in you know, the end of november early december potentially as opposed to the off season because now you get to see
how people are performing this year. Because, I mean, look, ask anybody who did a fantasy draft. You can predict all you want, how people are gonna play this season, but until they hit the ice, who fucking knows? If you had Frank Votrano as one of the leading scorers in the NHL, I will literally send you $100, because I guarantee none of you had him. So now that everything has started and we've seen 20 games of everybody, I think that's a good place to...
to be to start looking around the league. Unfortunately, it does put the Leafs, like I always say, in a corner because everyone knows that they need to make this move because Klingberg's hurt. It's not a mystery to anyone. So it's gonna limit what they can do. But I think your options are less of a gamble. So I don't hate it. I don't love it.
Biehner (35:54.533)
No, I think that's fair.
Roscoe (35:58.238)
So outside of Tanev and Zadorov, is there anybody that you would like to see the leafs take a swing at?
Biehner (36:08.389)
Are we talking like full out pipe dream or actual possibility?
Roscoe (36:15.73)
I mean, let's lean towards actual possibility.
Biehner (36:21.242)
Cause like
Roscoe (36:21.29)
I know it's tough to just pull a trade out of the air, but like, I don't know. I mean, what
Biehner (36:29.917)
Yeah, because even the type of player that, if you look at how everybody's saying the type of player that we need is a type of player that's not always readily available. Like they're not crazy. They're not crazy cost wise. With regards to their actual salaries, because that type of defenseman, it's not like we're looking for a Carlson or Hughes or anybody like that, like
Roscoe (36:44.207)
Checking UNIFS.
Biehner (37:01.153)
It's yeah, I would have to do some thinking on that like
Roscoe (37:05.446)
Look, there's not many expiring defensemen that you could take a swing at. I mean, like, there's Jay Gardner, hilarious, John Moore, Ethan Bair, and I don't think some of these guys are even playing.
Biehner (37:17.893)
Yeah, I don't think you've said a name that's playing yet.
Roscoe (37:20.262)
Yeah, it doesn't look like any of them are. So, oh, no, I don't want free agents. I want active players. That's why.
Okay, so active defenseman, expiring.
Roscoe (37:39.602)
I mean without trade protection Charlie McAvoy Mikhail Stargachev Miro Heiskin and let's go farther down the list Let's go to like the four million range where Okay, if we're gonna like try to get somebody at Klingberg's level Not gonna get Phil Horonik not gonna get Mattias Samuelson. No, thanks Michael
Biehner (37:46.882)
Oh, jeez.
Roscoe (38:06.898)
Yeah, Mikey Anderson from LA. Not bad.
Biehner (38:11.307)
they definitely wouldn't part with him.
Roscoe (38:14.463)
Nick Jensen in Washington, you're probably not gonna get. DeVon Taves, you're probably not gonna get. Well, maybe you could get DeVon Taves out of Colorado. Cause that's one that we've always talked about. It was like, what are you gonna do here? Because you have so many fucking defensemen.
Biehner (38:22.877)
There's.
Biehner (38:28.405)
I've loved Taves forever and I can't believe that Lou let him walk for, or let him go for what he got for him. But there's no way. Colorado will find some way to make that work, especially with the cap going up.
Roscoe (38:45.209)
Noah Dobson speaking of Lou.
Yeah, there's not much.
Biehner (38:49.893)
Dobson wouldn't be bad, but like even then you're still leaning towards like an offensive guy. Like realistically, like a Connor Clifton type. You know, he used to be with Boston, he's on Buffalo right now, Buffalo's not doing the greatest. Like he was a little bit more of a hard-hitting, grittier type of defenseman. That would be the type of guy that I think you would want to go for. Not anybody crazy expensive, crazy high profile.
Roscoe (38:56.938)
Yeah, Brendan Dillon.
Biehner (39:19.225)
just someone that's going to go out there, they're going to do their job and they're going to make it difficult for the other team to play against.
Roscoe (39:27.362)
fair. Speaking of Boston, Mattie Griswik or Montreal David Svart. I don't know. It's tough. I think honestly, like, this is where we got to let Brad cook and see what he's actually made of because now he's got an issue on his hands. And let's see what tissue he pulls to solve it here because the snot has run dry.
Biehner (39:52.513)
It definitely has, it's gotten crusty.
Roscoe (39:56.022)
Though I did miss it because I was at work, but I was getting updates on a bunch of fights from that Chicago game. I fucking why do we have Canadian teams playing on American Thanksgiving in the afternoon? Can we schedule this better? Like, especially the Leafs of all teams, like who like the big one of the biggest fan markets. You're going to put their game on a two o'clock in the afternoon on fucking Friday. That's so stupid.
Biehner (40:20.977)
So they, from what I've read, they were, a lot of the American teams requested to have home games. Like before, just before and after. And then, so like the Coyotes didn't want to play back to back just beforehand, that's why they weren't playing. The Sir, or the Tuesday. Um, cause we had two dark nights, which was really weird. But yeah, everybody wants to be at home and
realistically with the
Roscoe (40:53.71)
It's not weird, it's because there's football on, and football beats hockey.
Biehner (40:58.721)
Well, not entertainment wise if you're talking to me. Like I like football, but you've got.
Roscoe (41:03.338)
If you're talking to broadcasters and the dollars, yeah.
Biehner (41:07.085)
Yeah, football you have five minutes of game action over the course of a two or three hour game.
Roscoe (41:13.034)
And those five minutes probably make more money than every single NHL game that's on that week.
Biehner (41:18.939)
Yep.
Biehner (41:22.245)
Yeah.
Roscoe (41:24.274)
Yeah. But that's brings me something else I wanted to talk about, and that's the Global series. The talk of the town was that you had to be in town basically to watch it or you were out of luck. So me and Ottawa, I got to watch the Ottawa game, but unfortunately nobody outside of the Belleville Pembroke meridian, I'll call it, everyone to the west of it could not watch that game, and everybody to the east of it could not watch the Leaf game.
Um, please sponsor me surf shark because thank you so much for letting me watch these games. I just VPN I have so here's what I do I know this sounds complicated, but So I have like bell as my provider for tv and I can watch it on a browser So if i'm streaming the game and i'm going to hook it up to my tv I'm already hooking my laptop up to the tv so that don't tell me that's like an extra step All i'm doing is instead of going to a streaming site. I'm opening bell To watch it, but I VPN to toronto
So it just, it works and I can watch it in HD without it kicking me off and buffering and being a minute behind and yada yada. So this is a completely non-sponsored plug for Surfshark because I'm one of those sponsors. But this whole, like the global series is about growing the game and like how can you regionally lock these games? Like how did they not come to a deal with Bell and Rogers be like, hey, let's make these ones available because the whole point is that they're playing in Europe and
We want everyone to see this. We're trying to make this a global thing. Like, it's so stupid. It's an event. It's like if they made the Stadium series or a Heritage Classic, like, regionally in lock.
Biehner (43:05.821)
Well, and like the other thing that's interesting is they don't black out Haukina in Canada.
Roscoe (43:12.936)
Why is that interesting?
Biehner (43:15.261)
Well, they can do it. Like that's what I'm saying. They can have a game where they don't black it out. So you have a marquee event like a global series, right? Like...
Roscoe (43:24.314)
Oh, yeah, that's what that well, that's what I mean is like they can the heritage classic and stuff, they can say like, you know, this is going to be available, but they didn't for the global series. That's what I find baffling. And, again, this all comes back to I don't understand why the owners have so much invested faith in Gary Bettman, because look, the 12 year deal with Rogers is coming to a close really quickly. For the first time in over a decade, he's going to have to try to sell
this league to one of these Canadian telecom providers. And I really don't think anyone's gonna sign on at $5.2 billion for 12 years again. I don't think Rogers is loving how that deal has shaped out over the last decade. So if you want people to be invested in hockey and have eyes on the game and drive that dollar value up for advertisers and in turn,
for the broadcast sales, I don't understand why you would have so many limits on how many people can see this because Gary's going to be in a whole ton of shit over the next two years, trying to negotiate a new deal with these guys in the most important market being Canada. Like we've seen how much it's gone to shit in the States where like Bolly sports went under and all these regional providers are picking it up and the coyotes games are on antenna right now broadcast for free. Like it's, it's crazy. What's going on?
We're getting back to the point where it was like on the fishing network on the or like the outdoor sports network in the two thousands. Like this should be what ends Gary's tenure with the NHL. Like if he can't work out a deal that makes these owners more money than the 5.2 billion he made from the last deal, they should be furious with him and fire him. Like I don't understand how the thing above all of this money.
has not pissed them off. Like he has not made them nearly as much money as he should. That deal when it ends, like I think the way I read it is, it's at 500 million a year now for the last couple of years of it. Like good luck trying to get them to spend that again with how things have been going. Like you have no numbers to show that this is a profitable thing to invest in.
Biehner (45:41.277)
See the biggest problem is that Batman doesn't care about Canada and he never has so he doesn't give two shits about us complaining about blackouts and Realistically, he probably doesn't even care about Rogers and Bell because they're not giving him the same money that he's getting in the states from ESPN and TNT, right? So
Roscoe (46:04.642)
What, how much was that deal?
Biehner (46:07.941)
It was a lot more than the Canadian deal, I know that.
Roscoe (46:11.946)
Nope, contract was valued at $225 million per season. So they're spending less than half of what Rogers is spending per year.
Roscoe (46:26.462)
So, yeah.
Biehner (46:27.48)
That sounds off. But like, the point is he doesn't care about Canada. And we've always known this.
Roscoe (46:34.902)
Disney is reportedly forking over $410 million a year for the rights. Well, Turner will chip in an additional 225. It's a considerable upgrade from what the league was getting from NBC, which was 250 million. So the league was getting 250 million a year from NBC for the states. And now they're getting 635 million between Disney and Turner per year. So it's barely above what.
Biehner (46:59.666)
barely.
Roscoe (47:01.45)
the Canadian rights are. So he should be extremely invested in how much the Canadian rights go for. Because again, Rogers is paying $500 million a year right now, and they're not going to do that again.
Biehner (47:17.777)
They probably will.
Like, rip, rip.
Roscoe (47:21.386)
You think like here's the here's the thing with all the people like if they're not completely tone deaf, they're seeing that everybody is streaming these games. Like there's so much talk on major podcasts and outlets and social media and everything about how many people are streaming these games. They should be really concerned about that. They should be adjusting how they go about these broadcasts, but they don't they are going the way of.
the record labels in the late 90s when Napster came to be, they were like, let's just ignore it and try to sue people and take them all down off the internet. The internet's just a phase. Like, are we actually playing the internet's just a phase in 2023? Like, do you guys not understand that if you don't make something easily available, people will just steal it? That's not a secret. Like, again, it's 2023. People have been doing that with music and movies for like 30 years now. So...
I don't understand how sports are so behind in Canada on how they deliver the product to the people. Like, the amount of... I actually am curious what the numbers that they're losing to legal streams are. Like I want to get like a total on that. Like how many millions of people throughout the year are watching that instead of the broadcast and how much that actually affects their numbers when they go to make these deals. Because I'm sure it's not insignificant.
Biehner (48:49.877)
Oh, it's gotta be huge. Like, because of so many people, especially even, you're just like a one team, look at the Leafs. They're blacked out for you. They're blacked out for Marty. They're blacked out for probably pretty much anybody, well, they are for anybody in Canada that's not in Toronto area.
Roscoe (49:11.006)
Yeah, let me pull up the NHL blackout map because there were a lot of people. I thought this was like common knowledge. I'm going to show you. What? Oh, that's a weird. I don't think that's accurate. So here, where's the good one? Here's the good one. A lot of people are like, what do you mean? Blackout map. I'm like, oh, don't you know? Let me share my screen here.
Roscoe (49:40.386)
This is from Sportsnet Plus. This is from the Roger Sportsnet website. So they zoom in on this to show that there's a line here from Pembroke to Belleville that divides Ontario between the Leafs and the Sends and Canadians. So the Sends and Canadians get the entire East coast. So the home of the Newfoundland Growlers cannot watch Leaf games, which is frigging crazy. And then the Western, I don't know, third of Ontario here is split with the Winnipeg Jets.
So this is what I don't get is Winnipeg gets all of northern Canada, they get all of Saskatchewan, and they get all of Manitoba and a third of Ontario. The Leafs however only get the middle of Ontario and they share the other part with Winnipeg. Why is the Leafs one so small?
Biehner (50:36.285)
Probably because of the fact that... Probably because of the fact of the population. You look at the population of the GTA West, just in southern Ontario, you can take all of northern Ontario out of it. And the population from Toronto West is probably more than the majority of Winnipeg's coverage area.
Roscoe (50:36.418)
There's not another team that's that small.
Roscoe (50:58.138)
Oh, for sure. But that's completely ignoring that. Like, it doesn't matter where you live because it's not 1960 and you're not listening to the game on the radio. Like, what's crazy is like we have fans in so many countries that listen to the show and it should be just as easy for us to watch it as it is for them. Like when the game's on, we should all go to the same place, the same service or app, whatever it is from the NHL.
Biehner (51:06.941)
Mm-hmm.
Roscoe (51:27.074)
They should have one for the States and one for Canada or and one global that it's just you go to the thing, you watch the fucking game. I don't understand why that's so hard to do. Like why someone hasn't one of these streaming services. I know Amazon's been bidding on things, but like why one of them hasn't stepped up and figured out how to do sports. I'm not saying like because obviously they have to sell the rights. It's not like the NHL can do it internally. They have to sell it because that's where all the money comes from. I don't get how nobody.
in Silicon Valley. Nobody in the streaming world has figured out how to do this. Like F1 is on Apple TV, but no one can figure out the major sports. Like NBC and CBS and everybody have a stranglehold on football and everyone still watches that on TV, but that's only a matter of time before it's shifting to. Dazon popped up and scooped up soccer and things. Like it's all these fringe sports that we're seeing on services, but like baseball?
and hockey and basketball I think are soon going to be looking for a home. And I'm surprised that nobody has stepped up to the plate yet.
Biehner (52:35.409)
Well, I was going to say, weren't some of the MLB games this year on Apple TV?
Roscoe (52:40.466)
Yeah, I think we're starting to see them by like some of them, but it's still like you can just watch the game on Apple TV and like I know on my Prime TV there's like you can subscribe to sports and I threw it and watch them through there. But like again, it's it seems like it's still the same thing of like games spread out on different channels. That channel just happens to be a streaming service. Like it's just a repeat of what we've been doing for the entire existence of this game. Like, I don't know.
It just it seems like it's something that's pretty stone aged for how advanced, you know, movie and music streaming has gotten. Sports have just been kind of like no one's cracked the code because it's live, right? It's such a different beast.
Biehner (53:24.037)
Yeah, it is. It's completely different. And I don't know if these streaming platforms aren't willing to invest in the manpower infrastructure, whatever you want to call it, because they would need the panels, they would need everything, right? You'd basically be starting from scratch, whereas you're competing with these companies that have been doing it for over 100 years.
Roscoe (53:48.498)
Yeah, and I mean, it could also be one of those guys, right? Like, it's just you got to invest in the switch at some point, or it's just going to be, you know, like FM and AM radio where, you know, one day it's just not in cars anymore. And then, oh, the whole thing's just gone. Like you're hanging on by a thread of technology like. All it takes is the next generation, like, you know, people don't have home phones anymore, like how many people out of 10 out of 100 have a landline?
anymore. My parents, I think, are finally getting rid of theirs. Like, it's, it's one of those things where as soon as that one piece of technology is gone, it's like, oh, shit, like, we're just, I don't know, it just seems like we're waiting for the problem to get worse before we find a solution instead of being proactive about it. But I don't know, the NHL has never been good about being proactive about anything. So I don't know why I'm surprised.
Biehner (54:40.221)
What was that quote from Betman? You're talking about a problem that doesn't exist?
Roscoe (54:45.483)
Okay, let's go to questions and sign out of here. So we've got one from I think it was from Scott on Discord. Yeah. So with the many calls for swapping Marner with Nylander in the lineup, do you think Keith would try it soon or is it a no go until long skid happens?
until a long skit happens.
Biehner (55:06.233)
He should try it, but chances are you'll probably see Keith fired before he tries it.
Roscoe (55:12.138)
See, I think it's about time after this game and how well Willy's been playing and how well Matthews has been playing. Like, let's just, you know, I get trying to have it rub off on the other guy, but when the team's not playing well, let's just load up and hope that, you know, the change up helps the other guys.
Biehner (55:32.081)
The only thing I would be concerned with, which would possibly caution me not to do it, is that Willy, JT, and Brutusy line is getting very good.
Roscoe (55:44.254)
And I don't think they would get worse if it was JT, Marner, Bertuzzi, you know? Like...
Roscoe (55:52.802)
Like, is it gonna be that much worse?
Biehner (55:54.038)
I get what you're saying, but Willie and Marner do play a completely different style of game.
Roscoe (56:04.987)
I understand that. Him playing subpar is still playing better than most players. So, I don't know. We'll see. I do think that Keef's days might be numbered at this point. Did you hear how everything played out with Edmonton? I was joking.
Biehner (56:11.197)
Mm-hmm.
Roscoe (56:25.586)
We saw after they lost to San Jose, Jay Woodcroft was like, I think that'll do it. And the assistant was like, yeah, we're probably done. And apparently they were done after that game, but they couldn't get the replacement in time. So that's why he was fired after the Oilers actually won.
Biehner (56:43.895)
Yeah, we-
Roscoe (56:43.906)
So it could be a situation where it's like, they're just, you know, we can't go to our backup or our backup, our assistant right now. So we're working on a contract.
Biehner (56:52.761)
The, and the thing that really makes me wonder is the fact that they do have someone with head coaching experience right there on the bench with them. And Givouche, right?
Roscoe (57:03.994)
Oh god. I don't know if I want to go there though.
Biehner (57:06.449)
Right?
Biehner (57:10.213)
But like, and if, shout out to Marty, cause he'd probably be the one to say it if he came on tonight with us. We fire Keith, who do we get? Like replacement wise. God no.
Roscoe (57:22.102)
Babcock.
Roscoe (57:26.278)
I don't, I don't know. It's like, do you play the carousel game, go back to somebody that's just been fired, or, you know, do you go for someone new? Like all of our assistants get poached. So obviously we've got a good system going there, but I don't know, Guy Boucher, eh, just scares me a little.
Biehner (57:48.61)
Why though?
Roscoe (57:51.678)
because like his record just off the top of my head doesn't I don't know when the teams he's had it's just I don't know if this is the kind of hockey
Roscoe (58:05.37)
I don't know, man. It just doesn't seem like a Guy Boucher team, I guess. Like, I just I can't see him at the helm of this.
Biehner (58:14.749)
The thing that is interesting, the thing that's interesting about coaches is like, one of the most successful coaches in the game right now, I think everyone can agree, would be Bruce Cassidy. Right? Literally the defending Stanley Cup champion coach, and he was incredible with the Bruins for a handful of seasons before last season. He couldn't make it on the Capitals when he first came up. I believe it was the Capitals, his first coaching job.
Roscoe (58:16.246)
Something just doesn't gel.
Roscoe (58:30.402)
Yeah.
Biehner (58:45.333)
He got sent down and he had to toil away in the miners some parent the miners sometimes you can't just Get there and with your first team have instant success so maybe Get again. I don't I'm not advocating for anybody to lose their job But maybe he needs to reset Like I'm not saying he's a horrible coach. Just maybe he's run his time with this team
Roscoe (59:11.154)
When Kibusha's coach, oh, I forgot he had coached the lightning back. Yeah, they were OK. Lost in round three the first year out of the playoffs, the second year and. Got fired the third year. Sends anyone to Switzerland for a bit, sends. He was lost in the third round of the playoffs. Exactly the same thing. Wow.
Biehner (59:14.662)
Mm-hmm.
Roscoe (59:38.058)
Out of the playoffs the second year and then fired the third year. Exactly the same as with the Lightning. That's pretty funny. And almost the same record too.
Biehner (59:46.193)
Well I would get myself fired if I had to drive out to Kanata every game too.
Roscoe (59:50.61)
Yeah, I want to bring that map up. Shout out to Darty. I got to find that fucking thing. Well, here, you can answer your question while I pull that up. So from Owen Frank here, why is Mitch Marner and Austin Matthews still a thing? Is Keith fucking blind? Bench Mitch Marner and move 88 up. OK, we just basically answered that. Zapper, VI blue and white. Marner, do you notice his unfortunate trend of shrinking when he goes through adversity?
Biehner (59:53.791)
Ha ha ha!
Biehner (01:00:21.885)
I don't think that's really a trend. I think that's just who he is. As horrible as that is to say. I would consider a trend something that maybe has flared up recently, but we've seen that right from the Montreal series, the Columbus series, even back against Boston in the first handful of years the guys were in the league. He did tend to kind of have his moments where he disappeared.
Biehner (01:00:51.693)
I don't know what it is. He's an incredible player. But he, as you said earlier, it might not be team doctors. It might more so be team therapists. Like get-
Roscoe (01:01:04.846)
I mean, it's the same thing we talked about with Campbell, right? Like it's a guy who rides on his emotions. It's not on his, you know, physical injuries. It's like you can tell that he's just not on his game and he's capable of more than that. And he's just not finding it. Something else is in the way.
Biehner (01:01:07.781)
Mm-hmm.
Biehner (01:01:21.553)
Well, and then it's just compounded by the fact that he is one of the core. He is making, you know, double digits with regards to multi-millions of dollars a year. Like he's not on a $2 million contract. So everybody scrutinizes him that much more. Whereas like Max Domi, okay, yeah, he's the one of the prized off season signings for the Leafs, son of a former Leafs legend.
But he's not getting as much flack for the fact that he, you know, he's not lighting it up as Marner is for Marner tying at where he was at this point last season, despite having a quote unquote bad start.
Roscoe (01:02:06.242)
Well, I think it just comes down to the dollars at the end of the day for Marner. Like he's not a seven or eight million dollar player. He's in the double digits. So it's like there's not as much leeway for having a slow start. So I know it's yes, he was here last year and yes, he still finished with it. But I don't think that discredits him or that I don't think that protects him from criticism because of how much money he's paid. I think like he's with that.
10 and a half, whatever it is, like he needs to do it every night or 95% of the nights. Like if he's got a slow game, it's the slow game. It's not a slow month and then he picks it up.
Biehner (01:02:49.349)
Well, and it's not all about points either. Like, I'm 100% okay. There was many games last year where people were questioning Matthews, and clearly we saw with how he came out of the gate this year that maybe he wasn't 100% last year. But even when he wasn't scoring, when he was going through what for him would be considered a slump, he was still playing a full 200-foot game. He was still making all the smart plays. He just wasn't bearing.
Whereas right now, doesn't matter if he's on the penalty kill power play, what's going on, something's up with Marner.
Roscoe (01:03:25.882)
Yeah, 100%. So I did find the picture here. Thanks, Dardie, for sending this one in our chat. This is how far your NHL team's arena is from its city hall on a map of Ottawa, which is hilarious. I look at this map every day of my life. Funny enough, I'll point out here on the east side, the Islanders are actually in Navon, which is where that commercial that we see during the games of how Quaker sponsored Navon and their arena and how it's a small town.
That's how far it is. It's literally closer to Ottawa than Canada is. So when they talk about this like small town in the middle of nowhere, that small town is closer to the City Hall of Ottawa, then where the sends play. Okay. How insane is that? And for everyone saying, well, the islanders are far, there's another team in that city right here, they added a second one because they have enough people to Navin cannot support
Biehner (01:04:13.734)
And the f-
Roscoe (01:04:24.33)
a fucking hockey team, okay?
Biehner (01:04:27.893)
It could probably support the hockey team as well as the coyote scan.
Roscoe (01:04:32.234)
Honestly, if the sends played in Navon, more people would be able to get there. That's a lie. There's there's not public transit out there, but like more people would be able to drive there easier.
Biehner (01:04:38.094)
Absolutely.
Roscoe (01:04:45.078)
So for reference, anything on this side is like, this is like you go to Algonquin College or you live in Nepean that was like not part of Ottawa until recently. Barhaven is all families and Kanata is all tech and families. It's like its own town. There's not that many people that live in these things collectively. Like this is your high density population area here.
And this is not where the team plays, but it's where every other city's team plays. You know, like this is crazy. This is absolutely insane. I've never seen it placed like this before. Like, I knew it was far, but I've never seen it compared to everyone else. Like, I fucking hate this.
Biehner (01:05:34.941)
So a lot of people have been showing, I think it was they put the distance from City Hall to Kanata on a map of every other team, so like of all the different locations to show comparison with their City Hall and their team. But I haven't seen it all on one map like that. So it is a little interesting to see it like that.
Roscoe (01:05:52.235)
Right.
Roscoe (01:05:56.926)
And I thought it was fun to see it on Ottawa, because again, like every time I Google Maps anything, like this is the map I'm looking at. So it's like, wow, I can actually like pin pinpoint like how close like for me to get to most of the. Arenas, it would just be getting downtown, which for me takes but anywhere from eight to 15 minutes, maybe 20 if it's rush hour. But like if I were to leave right now at 1130 p.m. on a Saturday night, I could be down to City Hall in eight minutes. So.
If I were to drive in no traffic to the Canadian Tire Center, it would take me 35.
Biehner (01:06:34.817)
Yeah, and you can go down a rabbit hole with stuff like this too. Like my family and I were going over to England next year and Marty's always pumping the tires of the Wrexham documentary. And I'm, I am a soccer or how they name it football fan. So one of my big goals is to see a Manchester United game while I'm over there. And it's, it's not crazy far away, especially compared to
Roscoe (01:06:58.638)
Nice.
Biehner (01:07:05.025)
like distances we travel here for stuff. But then you look at like just for curiosity sake, I looked at how far Wrexham is from where we're staying. And it's only an hour and 40 minutes, which is crazy because you could probably if you hit traffic, that could probably take you that long to get to the Canadian Tire Center, whereas I could be across the world and get to an entirely different country.
Roscoe (01:07:17.206)
Hehehehehehe
Roscoe (01:07:29.066)
Well, yeah, I mean, like I say to get there takes like if it's a game day, you're talking 50 minutes probably to drive there. But that's just to get to I'd say probably 40 to get there to get to the exit for the highway. But the arena is between two exits. So you have cars coming from either direction lined up all the way down the street, trying to get to the parking lot. You've got.
like half of them are Ubers. So people just hop out of the car and start walking. And then you have a car that's just stuck there trying to turn around somewhere. So everyone's honking at each other. You have police directing traffic because there's hordes of people trying to cross the street. So you don't actually get to go when the light turns green. You get to go every like other time the light turns green. So it takes like a solid 20 minutes to get from getting off the highway to parking to then get inside the building. Like it is such a nightmare to go see a game there.
For a 7 p.m. start, you have to leave at like 5 15. So forget about going for dinner before the game because you have to spend the entire time traveling. So it and like if you're going after work, like forget about it. It's it's so inconvenient to get there. So if you're talking it's about an hour to get from your door to like. Basically out of your car to walking in there.
Which again is just a giant parking lot and it's freezing cold Ottawa. So it's not a fun walk There's a tunnel that is open on either side that goes through the middle of the parking lot, but it does not save you It's one tunnel. It's not underground Where was I going with this so it's like an hour and a half for me to get to Montreal from here And I could drive straight up to the door of the Bell Center in an hour and a half
Biehner (01:09:13.443)
yet.
Biehner (01:09:17.181)
So I literally live far enough away from the Leafs that I can't enter any contests that are posted on nhl.com or mapleleafs.com because it's like 150 kilometers or something that you have to be within that radius. And I can get from my door to Scotiabank Arena if I drove in an hour and 35 minutes and that's in Toronto traffic.
Roscoe (01:09:25.962)
Oh my god.
Roscoe (01:09:32.022)
Because Leaf fans only live in the Toronto area, right? That's how this is sustained.
Roscoe (01:09:47.018)
Like, the thing that I don't understand is you want people to be able to get to games and watch games and be involved with the team, no matter where they are. Like, you want your brand to be a global brand. Like, you want how you can go to Korea and someone's walking around in a coat, like a Lakers jersey. Like, you know, like you want the brand to be recognizable everywhere. And I think the NHL has just
effectively done everything to maintain this mentality that the only people that are fans of a team live within half an hour or an hour of where the team is situated and they're the only ones that are watching or reading about it. And like, you could just look at the numbers. That doesn't make any sense. Like there's the numbers don't support that theory. The Leafs could not make enough money off of the people solely in the GTA to make as much as they do. Like, it's just impossible. So
I don't know, I'm just so tired of like growing up and thinking that like, I think this is the thing being born when I was seeing all these technological changes and everything kind of growing with me. This is something that has been exactly the same through my whole life. Like, even back when like Leafs TV was a thing, you know, it's just it's always been such a struggle to watch every Leaf game in a season and I don't get it. I know we were talking about Ottawa, but like it's just
Biehner (01:10:46.365)
Bye.
Biehner (01:11:06.741)
Thanks for watching!
Roscoe (01:11:14.274)
Hockey in general, it's always such a struggle to just watch the games. I don't know why.
Biehner (01:11:21.061)
Yeah, and it's funny because it wasn't even all that long ago where Blackhawks games, if you lived in the city of Chicago, you couldn't watch it on TV.
Roscoe (01:11:30.782)
Yeah. And like I was saying about the coyotes, you're watching it on a free antenna signal right now. Speaking of, since we're talking about other sports too there, the Arizona Diamondbacks, I saw you can buy season home season tickets. I think it's like every home game for two hundred and ninety nine dollars.
Biehner (01:11:54.424)
Interesting.
Roscoe (01:11:55.572)
Yeah.
Now, I don't know, as I say that, if that's going to them or watching them.
Biehner (01:12:05.745)
Probably going. Like you think some of these baseball stadiums are, you did say Diamondbacks, right? OK, I'm making sure we're talking about the right sport here. Some of these.
Roscoe (01:12:18.006)
You never know with me, I could call them some random ass name that they used to be called.
Biehner (01:12:22.665)
Yeah, what do you call the rays, the devil rays? But I'm surprised you're not calling the coyotes the jets anymore. This is true. That would be more like a me thing.
Roscoe (01:12:33.211)
I'm not that old.
Roscoe (01:12:39.554)
Here, Diamondbacks are officially offering a steal on season tickets, so it is to actually go. Receive all 83 home games for just $299. This comes out to around $3.50 per ticket.
Biehner (01:12:53.125)
Yeah, some of those stadiums are massive though. So you think if you're a nosebleed up in the upper level, like that's not, okay, that is still really cheap, but that's probably not your, you know, directly behind home plate seat.
Roscoe (01:13:11.542)
What's the NHL package thing called?
Biehner (01:13:17.745)
center race.
Roscoe (01:13:23.362)
How much is it? NHL center ice package cost.
Roscoe (01:13:34.782)
It's not $69.99, it's like $300, isn't it?
It's like 220. Okay, so it's like 220 bucks to watch on TV, 82 NHL games. And it's the same price basically to go to every single Diamondbacks game at home. That's crazy. The same amount of games. NHL's doing something wrong.
Biehner (01:13:40.977)
I haven't paid for it in a long time.
Biehner (01:14:01.153)
Yeah, like we to-
Yeah, like we touched on earlier, it's probably going to go the way of streaming and I think basketball will be the first one. I think their contract's up next and it might be a completely different look coming out of that negotiation for all major sports.
Roscoe (01:14:21.374)
Yeah, agreed. So we have another one last question, but this one's a bit of a doozy. Holy shit, Mike. Mike the Fanatic, if we were to hop in a time machine and go back to before Marner's full no move clause kicked in, uh-oh, where would you have traded him and what kind of return would you have gotten? Okay, we'll just do a quick one on this. Just to humor this question, I would have traded him for
like Thatcher Demko. I would have traded him for like a solid goalie so that we don't have to worry about this for the next couple of years. Like, I don't think I would trade him for anything other than, like, because it's so easy to make the comparisons afterwards to another skater, like one-to-one. But if you have a goalie, you don't have to worry about that position for like the next five to 10 years. That's what I would trade Marner for. Like if we're just kind of humoring this.
Biehner (01:15:19.777)
Okay, so same thing if we're humoring it. What year did that kick in? I'm just trying to pull up cap friendly here.
Roscoe (01:15:27.126)
That's what I asked him. I think it was just this summer, but
Biehner (01:15:32.221)
What? There's no way it just kicked in this summer.
Biehner (01:15:37.581)
Current contract Son of a bitch No move clause 20 23 24 Wow
Roscoe (01:15:44.183)
just kicked in.
Biehner (01:15:52.737)
I was going to say Kale-McCarr, but if it's just the summer, Colorado wouldn't have done that trade anyways.
Roscoe (01:15:59.198)
I love that his base salary is $775,000. Because Canada is so fucking stupid on taxes that like this is how they have to pay him.
Biehner (01:16:09.477)
Well, when that contract was signed too, I think it was before the last... Was it before the last CBA?
Roscoe (01:16:17.278)
Yeah, because his 2019-2020 year, he got $15.3 million in signing bonuses.
Biehner (01:16:24.089)
Yeah, so that like that it's basically laco proof
Roscoe (01:16:28.33)
Yeah, you can't do this anymore.
Biehner (01:16:33.983)
Uh...
Roscoe (01:16:34.838)
But yeah, if we're just talking this past summer, I mean, yeah, I would have traded him for, like when the Jets were talking about moving Hellebuck, I know he's not been fantastic, but maybe that, but he's 30.
Biehner (01:16:52.777)
Yeah, I wouldn't have done that one.
Roscoe (01:16:55.978)
I mean, the Islanders are looking for scoring. I would take Sorokin for Marner.
Biehner (01:16:56.071)
Cause like
Biehner (01:17:02.561)
Okay, that's interesting. See, that one I would be a lot more open to at least listening on.
Roscoe (01:17:12.47)
Cause honestly like, Lou has not found somebody that can put two and two together there. I mean, Barzal could use some help. Or was it Horvat now? Like Barzal, Horvat and Marner. I think you finally have a team that can score goals.
Biehner (01:17:34.689)
Yeah. Yeah, if we're talking hypotheticals and just entertaining the question, then that's not a bad one, Siroken.
Roscoe (01:17:46.866)
It's tough because there's not really like Dardie has said in the past. There's not like the world ending goalies like there used to be. It's a lot more spread out. So I mean, you're not going to get Vasilevsky and even with his back injury and surgery now, I don't know how what the rest of it will see how he just came back. So we'll see how the rest of the season goes. But I don't know if he's going to be able to take the same workload he has over the last few years.
Biehner (01:18:10.657)
Realistically, he could possibly have done something like you had initially said with the Demco trade, especially after how poorly he played last season.
Roscoe (01:18:18.638)
Well, that's what I mean is like, I don't, that one's a little tougher because you'd be taking a chance on Demko. Like it's just kind of, you lucked out that he's been good this year and Vancouver has taken a step when, I don't know if even they expected to, I mean, they changed coaches in the middle of last year. So I think like, yeah, if we're doing this, Siropkin, thanks for the insane question. I didn't think we'd come to a reasonable answer on it.
Okay, um anything you want to touch on before we get out?
Biehner (01:18:54.306)
Um.
Screw the Panthers, because I think that's our next game Tuesday, isn't it? Yeah. So screw the Panthers. And just a little apology to all our fans that we kind of went AWOL for a couple weeks.
Roscoe (01:18:58.766)
What did they do this time?
Roscoe (01:19:04.441)
Oh, fun.
Roscoe (01:19:14.918)
Yeah, sorry, I've been working crazy hours and so has been too. And yeah, the what happened last weekend.
Biehner (01:19:24.721)
Well, last weekend was the Sweden games, right? Yeah.
Roscoe (01:19:25.074)
Oh, the games were on at weird times. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. It's late night. We don't do afternoon.
Biehner (01:19:30.417)
So, yeah, just thanks to everyone for listening. Sorry that we went AWOL a little bit. And we'll get back into it and give you the same nonsense that we talk about all the time.
Roscoe (01:19:48.71)
And thank you for, I can't even believe this. Our last episode has 4,000 downloads, which is insane. I mean, I don't like to talk our numbers a lot, but like that's a lot more than we usually get. So thanks guys. Remember to give us a follow on all the platforms. The video will be up on the Inside the Rink YouTube channel where you can watch it there and see all the things that I share on screen and see our lovely faces and hand gestures. So, you know.
Biehner (01:19:56.711)
Okay.
Roscoe (01:20:17.098)
Makes it just more immersive and all that shite. Thanks. We'll see you next time.
Roscoe (01:20:51.342)
I'm thinking about getting a mullet.
Biehner (01:20:53.858)
Oh my god, yes.
Roscoe (01:20:55.246)
I have so much hair right now and I was like, what should I do with this? And Eileen's like, you could do a mullet. I'm like, shit, I could too.
Biehner (01:21:01.873)
Go as Jaeger next year for Halloween.
Roscoe (01:21:04.642)
Oh, did you hear people talking if we do this World Cup, if he would end up lacing up for Czechia?
Biehner (01:21:10.97)
He probably would.
Roscoe (01:21:13.11)
I think it's more likely that he's behind the bench, but like the idea that he'd be out there even for a little bit or like one game of it is just insane. Like that he could. All right.
Biehner (01:21:26.445)
Yeah, that would be incredible.