Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

The secret to effective teamwork and collaboration.

To collaborate, we have to communicate. As Molly Sands knows, “The more that we can get on the same page, the more effective we are.”
Sands is a behavioral scientist and the head of the Teamwork Lab at Atlassian, where she researches how teams can collaborate more effectively and efficiently, especially in distributed and hybrid work environments. As she’s seen in her research and within her own team, “People can accomplish a lot more together when they work well together.” The key to unlocking that potential lies in communication that aligns people not just in their activity, but in their deeper goals and vision. “The best work happens when you start by asking why,” she says, “getting people to really understand: why is this a problem, why do we wanna solve it, and how are we uniquely positioned to do that? The more that we can map this out together, the more effective our teams tend to be.”
In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Sands and host Matt Abrahams discuss strategies for effective collaboration, from “page-led” meetings and asynchronous video messages to using AI as a collaborator. Whether your team is working face-to-face or across time zones, Sands’ insights show how better communication is the key to better collaboration.

Episode Reference Links:

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Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (03:06) - How the Teamwork Lab Works
  • (04:37) - Top Challenges for Teams
  • (05:11) - Clarifying Goals & Alignment
  • (07:53) - AI as a Collaborative Partner
  • (09:59) - Atlassian’s AI Onboarding Buddy
  • (13:23) - Rethinking Meetings
  • (16:32) - Three Types of Work Time
  • (17:51) - Replacing Meetings with Asynchronous Video
  • (20:36) - The Final Three Questions
  • (25:23) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Molly Sands
Head of the Teamwork Lab at Atlassian

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.

Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: Collaboration is critical
to teaming, but how do we do it so

that we feel effective and unburdened?

My name is Matt Abrahams and I
teach strategic communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today I look forward to
chatting with Molly Sands.

Molly is a behavioral scientist and the
head of the Teamwork Lab at Atlassian.

She and her team conduct research into
best practices for high performing teams.

Her work focuses on understanding how
teams can collaborate more effectively in

a distributed and hybrid work environment,
especially in the world of AI.

Welcome Molly.

I have long admired the work of your
team and I'm really excited to have

a conversation about the work you do.

Molly Sands: Thank you so much.

I'm excited to be here.

Matt Abrahams: Okay, shall we get started?

Molly Sands: Let's do it.

Matt Abrahams: Awesome.

So the Teamwork Lab studies many
aspects of teaming and productivity.

How do you determine what to
study and do you have some guiding

principles for the work that you do?

Molly Sands: I am really focused
on a few things in our work.

We have a couple key beliefs about
teamwork, and one is that people

can accomplish a lot more together
when they work well together.

And the other is that in most
companies today, it is way

too hard to work together.

And the more that we can get on the
same page about what we're trying to

achieve together and how we're going to
get there, the more effective we are.

Those are sort of my guiding
philosophies around how do teams work

effectively together, and we anchor
our research in a couple areas.

So one, my team, the Teamwork
Lab at Atlassian, we study

teams across the world.

So we will survey thousands of teams.

We'll talk to leaders.

We'll do lots of different types
of research, and then we also

study teams within the company.

And within Atlassian, we're really
able to get in the mix with teams

and change how they work and measure
lots of different types of outcomes.

And so from those two approaches,
we get a really good sense of what

are the challenges that most people
are facing today and that all of our

customers really care about and need us
to come up with better solutions for.

And then we also have this amazing
experimental pool, and so we can start

to really change ways of working and
then see how that impacts outcomes.

Matt Abrahams: In that research that
you do, at least trying to identify

what the big challenges, are there
two or three that stand out in terms

of what really teams struggle with?

Molly Sands: Yeah, so, goals.

What actually matters is huge
for teams and how people invest

their time in companies today.

And so we'd spend a lot of time studying
and thinking about how do we get clear

on what we're trying to do and how do
we invest our times in ways that are

actually meaningful and help us do
real work and not just talk about work.

Matt Abrahams: Do you have suggestions for
how people can help identify their goals?

And then I know something you spend a
lot of time on is alignment, getting

people aligned to those goals.

'Cause I've been in several organizations
where I thought we were working in

one direction and it turns out others
thought we were working in another.

So how do we determine what
those goals are and how do we

get alignment towards them?

Molly Sands: So I think a lot
of the best work happens when

you start by asking why, right?

And you are really focused on
what are we, what do we want

the true outcome to look like?

And in a lot of companies and a lot
of teams today, people get activities

confused with outcomes, right?

It's less about what is the business
problem we're solving, what is the

customer problem we're solving,
and more about what activities

are we doing to get there?

And so getting really clear about
the problems is really the first step

to having a great strategy and then
being more explicit about how are

we going to get there, and getting
that input, getting people to really

understand why is this a problem?

Why do we wanna solve it?

And how are we uniquely
positioned to do that?

All of that product thinking, is
really how I think about it, tends to

help teams get much better aligned.

And then being explicit, right?

There's so many moments, you just
referenced times of thinking, well,

I thought we were all on the same
page, but I never said it out loud.

And your colleagues and your
teammates are not mind readers.

So the more that we can really
map this out together, the more

effective our teams tend to be.

Matt Abrahams: I think taking the time
to really reflect on what is important

here, what's the problem we're solving,
why are we doing this, and then making

it explicit by documenting it and
communicating it, are really important.

And I have found in the practice
that I do, and when I go into

organizations, having people just
share what is the goal and have

everybody give their version of it.

People are often very surprised
that they weren't aligned.

So explicitly not just providing it,
but making sure people share their

take on it can be really helpful too.

Molly Sands: Yeah.

I always tell managers or anyone
that's leading a project, one of

the first things you should do is
ask everyone to tell you what they

think you're trying to accomplish.

Matt Abrahams: And a powerful
question I found, I'd be curious

to get your input on it, is asking
people, what does success look like?

What does success of this team look like?

Molly Sands: We actually start every
project we do in our platform, we

have a way that people can document
this, but what are we doing?

Why are we doing it?

And what does success look like?

And just by asking those three
questions, and writing something up

that everyone working on that project
reads and thinks about and gives

feedback on, that is such a fast way
to actually accelerate everything

that happens from that point on.

Matt Abrahams: Yeah, what are we doing?

Why is it important?

And what does success look like?

Really important questions.

I think another important question, and
I'm sure this won't surprise you, is

I'd love to talk about AI and AI's role.

It's certainly affecting work,
period, but also in teams.

Your research shows a shift
towards using AI as a collaborator.

Can you help us understand
what that looks like?

What recommendations do you
have to leverage AI to help

teams be more successful?

Molly Sands: One of the things we saw
earliest as AI was really taking hold

of how we do work was that people's
mindset around it mattered in a huge way.

And so if you really think of AI as a
collaborator, rather than just a doer,

but you're actually thinking about AI
more like a teammate and someone that

can push your thinking forward and
that you can go back and forth with.

Those are the people that are
seeing much better outcomes, and

that's across a lot of things.

So they're seeing more efficiency
in the work they're doing.

They're able to do tasks faster, but
those folks are also seeing better

quality work and their teams are
viewing them as more innovative.

And some of the promise of AI that
we're all excited about is really coming

true for the people that start to think
about AI in that collaborative mindset,

rather than simply as, oh, well, I can
delegate and automate a few things.

Matt Abrahams: Can you give
us a few examples of what true

collaboration with AI might look like?

Does it have a seat at the table?

Is it in the Zoom meeting with me?

Am I asking it questions like a colleague?

What does that look like?

Molly Sands: So I think it is great to
think of AI as a quick way to get some

information that you need, but it's also
about that back and forth interaction.

So actually creating things, and not
just taking the first output that you

get, but actually going back and forth,
debating, asking questions, having AI

push your thinking and pushing back too,
saying, I don't think this is right.

I know about this other thing.

How do we incorporate this?

And much in the way you would go
about collaborating with other

people where it is a back and forth.

Matt Abrahams: We had a really insightful
episode we did with Jeremy Utley, where

we talked about how treating AI as a
conversation partner, not just as a search

engine, really can change the dynamic.

And it sounds like that's what you're
advocating for is really engage in

dialogue, talk to it, and challenge
it, and it will help you benefit.

Can you give us an example of
using AI as a tool to help you?

I read about, or listened to an episode
of something where Atlassian has built

an onboarding tool out of AI to help
people get started and be more productive.

Molly Sands: Yeah, we've had great
success with onboarding with an AI buddy.

So we built what we call, her name is
NORA Atlassian onboarding Rovo agent.

And NORA has access to all of the data
that we have about policies and people

programs and how we run our company,
how people get set up in our systems.

And when our new hires join, they have
a variety of touchpoints with other

humans, but we also give them access
to NORA and say, Hey, if you have any

of those basic HR questions, ask her.

If you have any questions about how
things operate in this company, if

you're wondering who to ask about this,
if you don't know how to file a ticket.

Just all of those logistical things
that come up as you're joining.

And you don't really wanna go
to your brand new manager and be

like, oh, I have this like really
annoying list of twenty-five

questions about logistical things.

You wanna be showing up as strategic
in those conversations, and NORA

is your buddy for everything that
you need, and people feel a lot

more comfortable asking questions.

They don't worry about how AI is
going to perceive those questions, so

they really ask everything they want.

And we've also found that this has
vastly increased how much people

use AI as a collaborator, as
they onboard into their new role.

Matt Abrahams: So it's an on-ramp to
helping them feel comfortable using AI

as a tool to help them with their work.

I like that.

Molly Sands: Yeah.

And so we've seen a really strong
relationship there that just this

initial touch point sets that
expectation that this is a way that

we work in this company and this is
how you're going to get information.

Matt Abrahams: I know when I would
onboard on companies, I would always

feel so embarrassed 'cause I couldn't
remember something I was taught

and I'd have to go back and ask.

And I feel like I'm trying to set
a good impression and now everybody

thinks I can't remember anything.

To have a tool like that would be helpful.

So finding niche needs and building
AI tools to help, not only help

with whatever that need was, but
it also helps people feel more

comfortable using AI as a collaborator.

Molly Sands: Yeah, and I think it's
important for companies to think about

where they have really robust knowledge.

So AI works the best when it has
access to the right information,

and so in HR policies tend to
be really carefully documented.

You actually do need to have good
resources for any new employee about

what your benefits look like, about
how people manage different systems,

about how they integrate into teams.

We're able to pretty easily
create customized onboarding

plans using AI as well.

And so when all that
information is available, you

can easily build on top of it.

And so I usually encourage leaders
to think about where are pockets

within your company that you have
that great data already there, and

to think about those as use cases
where you can get some clear ones.

Matt Abrahams: Yeah, clear, easy pilot
wins and really get that momentum going.

I appreciate that a lot.

As you and I talked about before we
came on the air, meetings can be really

useful for teaming, but many of us
struggle with the meetings we have.

We feel like they're too many.

We feel like we're
victimized by poor meetings.

They zap our time.

I know you have done research
into meetings and actually at

Atlassian, you guys have some
really interesting approaches.

I know you use Loom videos
for asynchronous updates.

You have what are called
page led meetings.

Can you define these two approaches
because I think they're really

unique and could be helpful for many.

And then what other advice do you have
generally in terms of how we meet better,

when we meet better, who we meet with.

So I'd love to get specific on what
you all have done, because I think it

transfers to many people, and I just love
generally what your research has found.

Molly Sands: Meetings are
one of the biggest challenges

in people's jobs, right?

Anytime that we run research about
what's holding people back from

achieving what they want to at work,
meetings are the number one thing.

It's the biggest barrier to
productivity, but it's essential

that we talk to each other.

That's how we come up with great ideas.

That's how we create together.

There are so many things that
are so important about that.

And in the last few years, as companies
have embraced much more distributed

global work, people have brought a lot
of the meeting habits, that we did not

love in the office, online with them.

And so now we're all stuck in these
back to back meetings all day long.

And what we really think about
is taking control of our time and

solving the problems that meetings are
supposed to solve in different, more

efficient and more effective ways.

And so I think people should
think about having kind of three

types of time in their day.

One is time for deep work.

You really do need time to think, to
write, to create, depending on what your

job is, that time will look different, but
the time where you're using your brain in

the most powerful ways, and now you've got
AI as a partner during that time as well.

And then we should have meetings.

And at Atlassian we do page led meetings,
and we've done a lot of research

on this idea, and the basic idea is
that you put together a really clear

synopsis of what everyone needs to
know as context to have a conversation.

This works really well when you're
trying to make a decision, when you're

trying to align people, when you want
feedback on a perspective or path forward.

So any of those kinds of meetings where
you really are bringing a group together

to say, let's chart the path forward or
make sure everyone's at least aware of it.

Those moments work really great
for this page led meeting concept.

And the pages should be short.

Pages should be no more
than a five minute read.

You don't want people
reading for hours together.

Matt Abrahams: And do people read those
when they all convene together, is the

expectation that you read them in advance?

Because I know Amazon does
in the room, we all read.

Molly Sands: Yes, we
do in the room as well.

The pre-reads are tough.

People don't do them.

You're not sure if people did them.

You maybe did it, but it was four days ago
and now that's not top of mind for you.

So it's a great way at the beginning
to just set the context for everyone

and we ask people to comment.

Matt Abrahams: So you said there
were three ways of using time.

I'd love to revisit those.

And then, I hate update meetings and
I know you all have an interesting

way of getting that information that
I think everybody should consider.

Molly Sands: Yes.

Okay.

So three ways of using time.

One is traditional meetings,
another is deep work, and the third

is, and this sounds so silly, but
collaboration, more fluid collaboration.

And what we've seen in people trying
to fix meetings is that some teams

have shifted to way too much structure.

And so every time that you're bringing
people together to talk, it is like

very agenda led and someone is giving a
presentation and that's not the moment

where you can really create together.

And so, especially if you're working
on distributed teams where people are

in lots of different locations, having
these more fluid moments where you can

come together and really just work.

That could be pair programming, that
could be writing a page together, that

could be doing a creative brief or
coming up with concepts, brainstorming.

All these different ways that we really
do work together, and I think people

need to start to think about that as a
category that is different from a formal

structured meeting, but make a lot more
time for that kind of collaborative work.

Matt Abrahams: So it's this notion of deep
time where you're by yourself, maybe with

an AI collaborator, working on something.

It's the typical, traditional, structured
meeting led with pages where you all

sync up on what it is we're talking
about, and then the more collaborative

ideative time where people come together
and can really have the freedom to

do the work that needs to be done.

Molly Sands: Exactly.

And in order to have time to do all
of those things, you cannot be in

back to back standing meetings where
you were giving status updates.

And people don't have meetings
for no reason, even if they're

not effective, which most of the
time they tell us they are not.

They're trying to solve a problem
and usually that problem is

getting or sharing information.

And so we do a lot of asynchronous video.

We have a tool called Loom that we use,
which lets you record yourself talking.

You can screen record, you can just record
a video of you, and that captures a lot

more signal than simply a written update.

We find that people feel more connected
to other people when they communicate

through video, and that there's a
lot of benefits to giving more of

that personal touch to information.

And so we ask people to usually do their
updates or status updates, either through

writing or through Loom videos, depending
on how much context they need to share.

And we align all of our work to goals.

So there's a whole system and
infrastructure around goals.

What are teams working on?

Where do you have shared goals?

And this creates a lot of that
clarity that we were talking about

in the beginning, right, of what
are we trying to achieve together.

And just repeatedly having people look at
and remind themselves of that information

through our ways of sharing updates is
huge for staying on the same page about

what we're really trying to achieve.

Matt Abrahams: I really like that
idea of recording the update.

Not only do you get more information, as
you said, more signal, but people can take

in that information when they need it.

So I will often coach people in
the organizations I go into where

people are just so frustrated with
these long update meetings where

maybe ten percent is useful to you.

Have everybody record their sessions in
a structured way, so you know, you're

getting the same type of information
and the requirement is that you just

watch it in advance of the meeting.

So when you come together, you can
actually have a discussion about what

you learned rather than wasting the
time of hearing everybody's update.

And I really like that.

And I also like what you said about tying
these into the broader goal and always

reminding people how these things connect.

So I think those are very useful
tools to help people be more efficient

and effective in their meetings.

So the idea is not get
rid of all the meetings.

The idea is maximize the utility of the
meetings for what they're meant for.

So thank you for that.

So Molly, before we end, I like
to ask everybody three questions.

One I make up just for you and two,
I've been asking everybody for as

long as this podcast has gone on.

Are you up for that?

Molly Sands: I'm up for that.

Matt Abrahams: I am curious, what
is something that your team is

currently studying or working
on that has you really excited?

Molly Sands: We are working on
a lot of research about how you

really make AI part of the team.

So we see people are using AI more
and more at work and in their personal

lives, but how do we solve team level
challenges and problems, the things that

are really hard about working together.

And so we are doing some really
interesting interventions right now with

teams where we embed AI not just as an
individual collaborator for everyone on

the team, but also into some of these
team processes and ways of working.

And I'm very excited to see more
of what we learned from that.

Matt Abrahams: I would love for you when
you start getting results to have you

share some of that, and we will try to
get that information out because I see

that as a big unlock, but I also see it as
something that could be a real challenge.

So it'd be really interesting
to find what you've learned.

Question number two.

Who is a communicator
that you admire and why?

Molly Sands: I really admire Molly Graham.

She, I think, is a fantastic communicator
in really synthesizing some of the

core things that are hard about
work and putting analogies behind

them that make them very memorable.

And I've been really
impressed with her work.

She's most well known for the giveaway
your Legos piece that she's written about

how to scale in companies and how to grow.

But I think all of her content
is so actionable and memorable.

Matt Abrahams: So I like
that it's actionable.

That's what we're all about is
practical and tactical actions.

But it sounds like the ability to
synthesize and to make things accessible

through things like analogies, which
are wonderful skills for anybody

hoping to be a good communicator.

Final question, what are the first
three ingredients that go into a

successful communication recipe?

Molly Sands: Making it resonant.

You want people to immediately
feel what you're talking about.

Clarity.

And I think passion, when you care
about the topic, when you care about

what your message is, that really comes
through in the way you communicate.

Matt Abrahams: Making it resonant,
relevant, salient, really important.

Being clear.

You've talked about clarity a lot today.

Clarity of goal, alignment
to goal, clarity of messages.

And then passion.

And you clearly are passionate
about helping people collaborate

and work better in teams.

Thank you for the best practices.

Thank you for helping us understand
the details of what goes into

collaboration and effective work, and
thank you for your time and helping

all of us be better in our teaming.

Molly Sands: Yeah.

Thank you so much for having me
and for this wonderful discussion.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for
joining us for another episode of

Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about teams
and teaming, please listen to

episode 242 with Colin Fisher.

This episode was produced by Katherine
Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

With special thanks to the
Podium Podcast Company.

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