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An Equity-First Students as Partners Podcast.
Student Stories in Higher Education.
00:00:01 JAMIE
You're listening to Voices from the Classroom: a podcast that bridges the gap between
students and educators. I'm Jamie.
00:00:06 PIERS
And I'm Piers.
00:00:07 JAMIE
And we're your hosts for today's episode.
00:00:09 JAMIE
Today we're joined by Will Cook, a Bachelor of Law and Cybersecurity student with
some key insights into how students thrive under empathetic communicative education
delivery.
He's here to discuss his own complex journey throughout his degree and share some
details about what educator-specific and institutional supports are most beneficial to
him.
00:00:26 PIERS
What do you wish your lecturers knew?
00:00:28 WILL
Million-dollar question, I guess. It's...
00:00:30 JAMIE
If this is your first time tuning in, the Voices from the Classroom podcast is where
student stories take centrestage.
We facilitate honest conversations between students to explore what truly drives
engagement, motivation and success in higher education.
We have a long form explanation of our ethos and origins in our episode section if you'd
like to learn more.
00:00:48 PIERS
Today we are joined by the wonderful Will Cook.
Will, could you tell us a little bit about yourself, your course and what brought you to
Deakin in the 1st place?
00:00:55 WILL
I'm 22. I'm studying a double degree of Law and Cybersecurity, so I have the benefit of
being part of multiple faculties.
I remember being in Year 12 and looking through the course guide, having really no idea
what I wanted to do. I know I always loved kind of IT, technology, you know, building
things like that. But I remember doing legal studies and also really enjoying like the law
and the, I guess, procedural element of it and, you know, looking at it from a very human
rights perspective.
And then I recently went on exchange and that's where I kind of found the intersection of
law and IT and that's kind of what brought me to study this degree.
So yeah, I'm in my 4th year now, 4th out of many, hopefully two or so years to go. But
yeah, thanks for having me.
00:01:43 JAMIE
And would you mind telling us a bit about some of the challenges you've encountered
throughout your course progression that you were sure lecturers might be a bit more
aware of?
00:01:52 WILL
So there's a few challenges that come to mind.
I think, starting university is always very daunting for everyone.
I think I found it especially di icult coming from a high school where most, of most of
my friends went to like Melbourne or Monash.
And coming into, I also went to an all-boys school, so, coming to a place like Deakin,
there's a much more diverse audience.
I think it was di icult adjusting at first, and I think…I remember my first lecture, it was
actually a seminar. My seminar leader, she was actually really amazing. She's probably
been my favourite lecturer of all time. And, you know, she was really good at kind of
helping people settle in. She was neurodiverse as well, so I think that gave her an
added, added perspective to be able to understand what it's like as, you know, a student
who is neurodiverse as well.
But I guess, you know, another challenge is trying to balance everything. I think
lecturers, even my parents and I think a lot of people in the workforce, back when they
went to university, it was free, they didn't have to work during it, they could study full
time and get their degree. Whereas now the reality is a lot di erent, I work three days a
week already at a law firm, plus I usually do 3 units, 332, so I don't get the summer
break, plus, things like this and that. So I think, lecturers often underestimate the
amount of stu we're juggling on our plates. I might, I could have an assignment due,
then I could work that day, could have a lecture that evening.
So, it's an intense lifestyle, and I think, sometimes lecturers think we have it easy or
we're just on holidays and things like that, but often we're, scrambling around to
manage everything, and I think that's probably something that needs a bit more light
shone on it.
00:03:43 PIERS
At the moment, it's so many things that you've got going on. How do you find time to go
through all of it?
00:03:49 WILL
That's the challenge, I guess. Time is limited. There is only so much time. I find, you
know, my calendar is my best friend. I can, I'll often be like, oh, I can do everything. Like
there's time for everything. But a calendar really puts some boundaries and you know,
there's only so many hours you can do things and it kind of helps to schedule things out.
And you've got to set priorities as well. You know, you can't do everything and you kind of
just got to get better at saying, no, I think that's been what's helped me get through.
00:04:16 PIERS
What do you wish that like lecturers or lecturers or anyone at Deakin could do to kind of
help support you to have like more, I guess, I don't know, more freedom when you're
doing stu ?
00:04:26 WILL
Yeah, I guess one of the big things, especially between faculties, is the lack of, I guess,
coordination and certainty around how things are done. You know, you jump into units
and they're completely di erent to how other ones are done, and you have to spend so
much time trying to figure it out, what's required, what you need to do to get a good
mark. I think, lecturers need to understand, we don't have millions of hours to be trying
to understand how these things work. And we might miss lectures, tutorials, seminars,
and it's not because we don't want to show up or we're lazy, it's because we've got so
much happening.
I think having more understanding of those students or students who might struggle
with time management or showing up to class. Being able to build that certainty, I think,
would be something that definitely helps, whether it's making unit guides easy to
understand or even just like an introduction post on the unit side about how the unit
works. Just, you know, a friendly face to start the unit o . I think often, especially in law,
you look at lectures and you think, oh, they're there, because law is a very hierarchical
and business type degree where you've got a very clear structure of how it works, and
often you get into these degrees and you're, you know, it's very intimidating, some of
these lectures, you know, it feels like you're kind of against each other and it's you
versus the world.
So, yeah, I guess, you know, having...making students feel more at ease, I think, whether
that's through asking for feedback throughout the course or having, time at the end of
seminars to ask questions or, making it a bit less serious, I guess, is my takeaway.
00:05:54 PIERS
Are there any Deakin learning spaces and opportunities you wish that your lecturers
promoted more or were aware of or were more involved with?
00:06:01 WILL
The great thing about Deakin is there are so many support services that I think often the
lecturers themselves barely, especially, you know, if you're a sessional or something,
you don't know about most of these services, I think. It'd be really good if, lecturers were
able to link us into other services. There's Studiosity, writing mentors, maths mentors.
I think SEBE does it quite well, where they have it quite integrable, but I think, you know,
Law doesn't have a great deal of support services within the faculty. I think it'd be great if
lecturers could promote more things, you know, such as the counselling services or the
peer support groups, you know, all the clubs as well.
I think they really only promote faculty-specific ones, but there are a ton of di erent
ones for students. And I think there are places on campus that are specific learning
spaces as well, which I think don't get a lot of use. I think it'd be great if they've
promoted the library more, di erent places around campus such as BC is pretty good.
I mean, there are plenty of learning spots. It's kind of, with Law, it's kind of just like rock
up and do your work and go home. Whereas I find Cybersecurity, it's much more, you
know, you can use the classrooms, the cyber labs. But even then in Cybersecurity, it'd
be great, you know, if we could use the labs after hours or know about how that works.
I think a lot of the information is gatekept. So I think really the two takeaways from that
are services and places on campus that you can actually study in. That might be
specific to your degree as well, so a law specific space, but also the online services
such as curiosity, the counselling services, the peer support groups, all those things
that are there to support students. I think if lecturers had a better understanding of
them, they could point students in the right direction more often.
So I've emailed lecturers before saying, oh, I'm struggling, but really they can't do, they
don't know a whole lot, they're just like, do your best, maybe search for support
services. There's not a lot more they provide on that, which is I think disappointing.
There's, you know, they're the first contact of most students, so I think them having a
good understanding of support services is essential to being able to support students.
00:08:00 JAMIE
Sort of to capture what you're saying about like lecturers knowing more about the
supports available to students.
As a student partner, I did a workshop where I learned more about like the mental health
services that Deakin provides and a lot of my lecturers and unit chairs had a good
understanding for. And I feel like a gap in Deakin's amazing education delivery can be
that more holistic approach to education, particularly in, you know, those more
business-centric degrees like law or even, I don't know that much about the IT and
cyber faculties, but I feel like if lecturers had that training to be like, “hey, there's this 247 tech service that Deakin o ers that you can use, or you are entitled to this number of
counseling sessions”, and rather than just like pointing it o on the student to find those
resources or just saying like, you know, get an extension, do your best sort of thing. Is
that sort of in tune with where your mind's at?
00:09:00 WILL
Yeah, I think, it's depending on the faculty, there's di erent, I guess, understandings. I
think, for example, like psych, they probably have a very good understanding because
that's, they understand their systems. Whereas I think law, you often get academics
who work, they're lawyers, but they also come and do a couple sessions a week. And
they might be at multiple universities as well. So really, I think they think their core role
is just to teach the content. But I think, there's a lot of, I think we think of high school,
primary school, pastoral care, but I think it's still a big element in university as people,
find their feet. It doesn't have to be as intense as those programs in school, but, being
able to point students in the right direction, I think.
And having that, I guess, holistic approach across the university where, your first duty
may or may not be to teach the content, but also, to support students in that learning.
Because university, I've found along the years, is not just, content and learning is very
little. I think there's a lot more development that happens in kind of the social area with
relationship building, kind of growing yourself as a person. There's only so much content
can do, and I think being able to develop those other schools as we go into the
workforce is critical. And I think, lecturers play an important role as being those kind of
gatekeepers of knowledge and the better spread, the services available and the
supports to students, then, students are probably going to feel...I would, especially
from day one.
00:10:30 PIERS
We were talking about this with another guest a few weeks ago, but we feel like the
element of socialness at uni has kind of changed since COVID definitely as an impact.
Because we were told that like lecturers used to go out and hang with students, like
they'd, you know, go to bars and that kind of stu . Would that like kind of more personal
student-teacher connection really help?
00:10:51 WILL
Yeah, I guess, you know, I haven't, I started at university after COVID, but I guess, so it's
kind of hard for me to see what previously looked like, but I think, that would be
something that's really good. I think, for me, I look at lecturers, especially in law, as very
hierarchical, and I think it doesn't help when, you think they're just there to teach you
the content. I think those, bar catch-ups, co ee catch-ups, I think they're a really great
way as well, because I think often students are very afraid to ask questions. I know I
certainly was, especially when I started, if I had a question about something, I'm not
putting my hand up in a 200-person lecture or something like that. I think those intimate
moments are very important, especially for network building and learning how to do
those other core skills. You can't learn how to network in a seminar where they're
delivering content.
It's really those other things, learning insights as well that aren't on the course. The
courses are very structured. But I think there's a lot of, learnings you can take away from
lecturers and stu , especially when law moves so rapidly but the courses don't change.
Being able to, have those catch-ups, I think it's great socially because you don't just
want to come to university, go to U2R lecturer and go straight home. But also getting
those insights into the profession, building those networks and kind of taking away more
than you get from class.
00:12:09 JAMIE
Just a good question we had for you was if you had any insights about the di erent ways
that lecturers have connected and communicated with you throughout your units and
how that may have shaped your educational experiences and achievements, which I
guess kind of fits in with that desire to network conversation we're having.
00:12:26 WILL
Yeah, there's a couple lecturers that really come to mind in terms of being on the really
good spectrum, but then you get others who are at the other end. I think I've had a
couple of lectures that have been really good that I've been able to meet with privately
and haven't felt afraid to ask questions. They're very kind of a irming of di erent needs.
They have lived experience themselves, which I think is really, really important. From
day one, they set the standard. They tell you what supports are available. And they
advocate for students as well. I remember this one lecturer, she was saying, you know, if
you want to apply for special consideration because of XYZ, send me an email and I'll
support your application, essentially. And I think that's really good because as students,
we feel much more supported. And I think it really brings it, it reminds us that it's not
them versus us, it's, we're working in the team here to get to where we want to go. On
the other hand, you get some academics who I guess are very kind of old school, they're
not, you know, they're just there to kind of teach the content and get on with it. You
know, they don't really have an understanding of, I guess, the support services and I
guess, you know, there's not great understanding of things like diversity and equity. And I
think those experiences really kind of rea irm those old structures that I think need to
change about how there's a hierarchy, there's people who are better than each other
and you kind of need to stay in your lane. And I think it doesn't help, those don't help the
belief among students as well that you've got to be better than every other student. I
think there's a big thing in law about trying to be better than every other student and to
get into the top firm and such and such. But I think when you have lecturers who are
much more inclusive, it feels like everyone's in the same team, like they're there to
support you. Because at the end of the day, it's your fees, you're paying money, you pay
money for them to teach you, want to get as much out of it as you can. You want to feel
you can get the support you need, but you also want to be challenged, and I think that's
important. I think there's often a correlation between those two educators who are
opened up to support services and student voice and things like that, and those who
feel like they have a better unit experience and who engage better with the unit. I think
there's nothing worse than a boring lecturer who's just, you know, going on and on about
something without any thought for the students.
00:14:33 PIERS
I think we've had a really, really great conversation. Your insights on these topics have
been genuinely really nice to hear, especially coming from such like a varied degree in
my opinion. You've got a really interesting thing that you're studying. You've locked in on
your passion, it's really great. We'd love to give you an opportunity now just to
summarize your insights and directly answer our titular question: what do you wish your
lecturers knew?
00:14:53 WILL
Million-dollar question, I guess it's…Yeah, if I had to narrow it down, I guess it's, you
know, it's really about understanding what students are going through and interacting
with them. You have to remember, I think, it's not you versus them, it's you're all on the
same team here. They might be much, much younger, but they're still adults, they're still
people, and I guess it's important to interact with them, engage with them, tell them
about support services, but also, you know, your role is not just to give them the
content, it's also to kind of help them develop those key university skills, have global
learning outcomes, for example, develop those key skills that content alone, you know,
can't teach. It's no point reciting the PowerPoint. You really need to get in there and
engage with the students and understand what they're going through so you can best
support them and best teach to their needs. I think that's probably what I wish lecturers
knew more. You know, I think it, you know, as a student, I love that. I feel it's much more
supported. And I think it, you know, all around it, make a much better student
experience.
00:15:52 JAMIE
I know personally, as a nursing science student, a thing that's really important for my
own lectures is like you're thinking about your creating the next generation of this career.
So, you want to bring these students to the standard of being capable professionals.
And that goes beyond reciting from a PowerPoint. It's those soft skills of networking and
interpersonal connection and knowing the industry.
00:16:15 WILL
I guess as well on that point, like education, academia is more than just sharing
PowerPoint. It's about the collaboration of ideas, and I think students nowadays
especially have a lot of, with technology emerging and stu like that, I think students are
very innovative and they have a lot of ideas, and I think being able to collaborate on
those is kind of a great way to keep moving, moving research forward.
00:16:38 PIERS
So, thank you so much, Will, for sharing your student experience with us. It's been
incredibly valuable. You provided some really useful insights into the importance of
communication and proactive empathy in students-facing education, as well as some
ideas for educators to become more holistic in their approach to course delivery
through involvement in other aspects of educational support and student life.
00:16:58 WILL
Thanks for having me. It's been good.
00:16:59 PIERS
Thank you so much, Will.
Thank you for joining us for another episode of Voices From the Classroom. We hope
Will's experience has provided some valuable insights that could potentially be
considered as a part of your education provision. If you found today's discussion
engaging, we encourage you to reflect on what you've heard today. Could you commit to
familiarizing yourself with the student support resource and throwing it to a student
cohort? Or have a think about how your unit delivery may sit with students balancing the
studies with complex circumstances?
Remember to subscribe so you don't miss our next episode. We also welcome any
suggestions of topics you'd like us to delve into. Please share them with us through the
link in the podcast notes.
Until next time, keep listening, keep learning, and keep connecting. These aren't just our
stories. They're calls for empathy, understanding, and change.