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Dear Writer, giving and receiving feedback can be hard. Haven't you ever wished you could watch someone else's writing group to see how they do it?
This podcast is focused on just such a writing group. Join authors JC Bybee, Grey Alder, and Tyler Hess as they razz and encourage each other, talk about every writing topic under the sun, and exemplify the subtle art of helping other writers write better.
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;04
Unknown
That's the the hardest part sometimes is, is making sure that your characters have flaws, things that they're things that make them human. And nothing, nothing annoys me more than when you can tell a writer, and I've. I've done this has a pet character or a pet group where they don't really make mistakes. They don't really encounter issues.
00;00;30;04 - 00;01;02;00
Unknown
They don't really have flaws like that. Yeah. The Mary Sue. Yeah. And sometimes, like, we think of the Mary Sue as a single character, but there are Mary Sue groups and lots where.
00;01;02;03 - 00;01;25;18
Unknown
All right. Welcome, losers, to the best show on the internet. This is third person POV, a writers group where we are showing you all the ins and outs of how to do a critique group writing fiction. You will learn so much here how to be snobby with other people's writing. How to be a good person, to just take it when Tyler slapping you in the face, and so much more.
00;01;25;20 - 00;01;46;08
Unknown
Let's get to all the losers there. My friends, are your winners. You're all winners. They're winners because they came here. I don't know if you guys saw one of the comments we got on our YouTube channel, but someone was thanking the algorithm. Guys that did that to nice. Looks awesome. Well, welcome. Welcome. What corner of the internet takes you here?
00;01;46;08 - 00;02;15;29
Unknown
I wonder what else have you been watching? Yeah, okay. Okay. That'll be a weird, rabbit hole. I'm sure that would bring it to us at the end of it. Yeah. Okay. You figured it out? We're tired. Yeah, really freaking tired. But let's introduce yourselves. I'm Tyler, I'm Jake, and I am gray elder. Awesome. And then we have decided before we start, if we hit record that we're gonna go into mine first.
00;02;16;02 - 00;02;45;22
Unknown
Yep. All right. And I'm going to leave that off. So I want to start at the end with my final thoughts because I took a slightly different approach. I read all the way through on yours and then went back through a second time to see, this is the kind of scene that personally, I hate reading because it's it's not that.
00;02;45;25 - 00;03;15;08
Unknown
Let me say it is a well-written version of these scenes I don't like. Oh, wait, did you feature me? Oh, yeah. Cue future Tyler to give context to the scene. Hey, guys, feature Tyler. Context for this week. This happens the evening after Riley and Warren have been on their little trip in the woods where they had their their little fight, and then their other fight with, with the weird deer creature thing.
00;03;15;10 - 00;03;40;04
Unknown
There. So, Warren in this scene, Warren, Lila, Luke, AJ the gang, they're having s'mores at Luke's house. Notable events there. They kind of interrogate Warren a little bit about what the heck he's doing with the Bradleys. Why is he working with the bad guys? Warren gets a little bit defensive a little bit, and even a little bit antagonistic towards towards the game because he doesn't feel like they're doing enough.
00;03;40;07 - 00;04;02;10
Unknown
He and Luke have a little bit of a tiff. Which one? You know, gently kicks his butt. Doesn't go as hard as he could have gone. And then he and AJ go off or AJ takes him home to get him away from Luke. They have their talk and AJ, realizes that the Bradleys are trying to open up the gates and that Warren is helping them do that.
00;04;02;10 - 00;04;31;25
Unknown
The gate to very which in their in their minds is not a good thing. So AJ is concerned AJ's trying to do something in the next scene. Warren is living his best life by guys. And so it's an important scene. It's a scene that needed to happen, a scene that you've been building toward a scene. I was not looking forward to reading because I don't like the conflict between potential allies.
00;04;31;25 - 00;04;56;19
Unknown
I've never liked that, despite knowing that they're necessary. They're scenes that need to happen, scenes that need to progress. It's well-written. It's well done. There are a few things that I'm going to get to as we go through. But overall, I wanted to give you your accolades first because it is it is well done. There are some rough spots and I'll get to that.
00;04;56;21 - 00;05;23;19
Unknown
There's a couple of places. There's one place at the beginning, it's like second, second paragraph where the thought doesn't quite feel complete. And they made a note that you might want to just add one more line before you transition to the to the next paragraph, the next scene where it was talking about Luke's dad. And then. Yeah, so the four of them were more or less unsupervised, just like at the lake, which was something.
00;05;23;22 - 00;05;50;20
Unknown
And then it feels like you just need to reiterate that it's not the same, though, you know, it's not the lake. It's not their usual place. It's not the usual habit. Things that they're used to doing. I like the awkwardness from more end. It feels very appropriate. There are a few places this first sort of exchange where Lila really reveals.
00;05;50;20 - 00;06;22;02
Unknown
Hey, I know you went and did something with Riley. I want you to emphasize the, the actions that they're doing. Moving, uncomfortable. Like to emphasize just how uncomfortable all four of them are with the scene, with the conversation, with the idea that. Wait a minute. This guy, we thought is our ally was suddenly helping this guy that we know is not.
00;06;22;04 - 00;06;51;24
Unknown
Let's see here. I like that you have AJ picking up on motivation like he understands immediately. Oh, he saw Warren fight. He understands that Warren's a fighter. He's going to try to recruit him because that's the kind of person Bradley is AJ is is is picking up on that. I like that you're consistent with Warren's motivation that he is a fighter but not a killer.
00;06;51;26 - 00;07;18;29
Unknown
He enjoys the idea of fighting and he doesn't mind beating people up. He kind of enjoys it. But there's a line that he doesn't want to cross, and he's not willing to cross. And it's like, of course not. There's still people referring to the hounds. The hounds are still people. So he is not willing to just kill them outright.
00;07;19;02 - 00;07;48;22
Unknown
I like that you have Warren point out that he feels like the Bradleys are doing something when it appears the man and the Scooby Gang are kind of just trying to maintain the status quo to him, that's what it feels like. And it sort of starts to explain his perspective. Shift that happens throughout this scene. And I made a note and, in this, in this, this comment.
00;07;48;22 - 00;08;15;07
Unknown
And later on when I think you should do it, I think AJ needs to question him on hit on his motive, on his perspective shift and his potential motivation shift. And again, I'll point out that I have a comment to where I think it fits for him to ask that question. And that's actually, on the drive home.
00;08;15;10 - 00;08;40;04
Unknown
The fight was great. I didn't really have any comments on that. I like that Warren used a, chest punch because having been punched in the chest like that, it stops you cold. It hurts. And it takes you a second to recover from it, but it doesn't like it's not a punt. It's not. It's not going to leave him with a cut lip.
00;08;40;04 - 00;09;02;02
Unknown
So I could leave him with a black eye. He's not going to knock out a tooth. It's just going to stop the fight. And to me, that was a good a good call on Warren's part because he doesn't want to fight Luke. But he does. But he doesn't at the same time, he wants to put Luke in his place, but at the same time, he knows it's not going to be a fight.
00;09;02;04 - 00;09;31;29
Unknown
And again, this scene sort of solidifies the idea that unless it's like the very end of the book, we don't need a Luke perspective for this book. We know who Lucas he's he. And this scene, plays it out perfectly. He's a kind of belligerent, but also unwilling to fix the issues because he's afraid of change. And he doesn't like what Warren's doing to the group.
00;09;32;02 - 00;09;59;02
Unknown
So he's he's trying to stand up for them or something or something. Layla is an interesting one in this one. I didn't have a lot of comments on her, but. I will say just overall, I think I like I think I like the way you handled it. I had a lot to think about as I was reading it.
00;09;59;04 - 00;10;10;08
Unknown
I think I like the way you handled her reactions to the scene.
00;10;10;11 - 00;10;20;27
Unknown
Let's see here.
00;10;21;00 - 00;10;29;01
Unknown
Is. Yeah.
00;10;29;03 - 00;10;51;29
Unknown
Anyway, All right. So here, right is AJ parked the car in front of Warren's house, and he says if the Bradleys have a way to get them back without opening to the gate to ferry, that great. And I think in this, at this scene, this area is a place where AJ can question Warren on that perspective shift, on that motivation shift.
00;10;51;29 - 00;11;16;11
Unknown
Because Warren has been very clear. I don't want to help. I don't want to be involved. I don't want to be a part of this. And as the scene progresses, he actually says, we are trying to do this, referring to him and the and the sheriff and Riley. And so it to me, it makes sense for AJ to ask no more to to push, to try to get to understand Warren.
00;11;16;13 - 00;11;41;24
Unknown
He might not like Warren, but he understands that he he is a potential ally and he want it. It's a balancing act that I that you're you're doing well. You're doing I like AJ how AJ's handling it. So, And then you, you you do something that I think is interesting. And I don't know if it's intentional, but to me it's interesting.
00;11;41;27 - 00;12;15;11
Unknown
So it says Warren still didn't answer. A chill ran down AJ's spine. Stories and picture Mr. Wesley, is that how you pronounce that guy's name? Wesley had shown to him, came to his mind. You don't understand how bad that would be. So he has somebody that could give Warren more evidence of how bad it would be. And yet he's never been mentioned to Warren that I that I think because it's all been mental thinking about Mr. Wesley and the pictures and the evidence and the stories.
00;12;15;13 - 00;12;39;23
Unknown
They've never mentioned him to Warren. They've never given him that additional bit of evidence that a bit additional bit of information that could potentially sway him one way or the other, in the same way that man doesn't give them more information. So it's a it was an interesting parallel to me that they want Warren's help, but they don't give him everything they want.
00;12;39;26 - 00;13;12;29
Unknown
And Dan doesn't want their help, but she also doesn't give them everything. So he doesn't give them a ton of information. So I thought that was an interesting parallel. I think it follows the story really well. And the world building that you're doing to do. Yeah, I mentioned one time before, but yeah. And I couldn't remember if it was actually out loud or if Lila was thinking about it or if Warren was there when he was mentioned.
00;13;13;01 - 00;13;36;22
Unknown
I don't remember. It is also his mom's boss. Oh, okay. So Mr. Wesley's a librarian. His mom said, I don't know, like, I can't remember. That's come up yet at this point in the book, I don't think so. And I mean, you say that like I, I've wanted Warren to try to find out some things for himself, but then I kind of didn't do it before the end of the book.
00;13;36;22 - 00;14;04;17
Unknown
So that might be something I need to go back. And yeah, I mean, that could be like a scene where Warren is at work with mom, where he goes and sees her at the library and meets the head librarian, I think could be an interesting addition, especially because there are a lot of questions that, we kind of have answers to, but Warren doesn't really have the answers.
00;14;04;20 - 00;14;26;22
Unknown
And so giving him a chance to maybe find answers on his own, I think would be good. I again, I don't know where you would put that quite yet, but, we also haven't finished the whole book yet, so I know you have. We haven't. But yeah, overall I did. The readers have. So if you're listening to this nice reader, thank you very much.
00;14;27;00 - 00;14;31;01
Unknown
That was executed. Your comments. Yeah.
00;14;31;04 - 00;14;55;06
Unknown
Yes. Better readers are important. But yeah, like I said, overall it is a well-written version of a scene I don't like. And it's a scene like the first time I read a book like this. I will read this scene all the way through so I can understand the story the next time, or maybe the third time I read it, I will skip the scene entirely because it's just I don't like reading them.
00;14;55;13 - 00;15;18;09
Unknown
Yeah. So but you did a really good job with it. So that's my thoughts on it. Ray, what do you think? Man, I almost completely agree with everything that you said. I thought that I was being so mean to Tyler in the comments. I'm like, I, I can't pull this punch. It it is. That is exactly right.
00;15;18;09 - 00;15;37;13
Unknown
This is a very well-written version of a scene that I want nothing to do with, like, I this was the natural trajectory that you set your characters on, and the plot was in motion. And I should have seen this coming, but I got to it like, cool. Another campfire scene. Cubi and then the worst version of every character comes out there.
00;15;37;19 - 00;16;06;26
Unknown
Everybody's just the ugly side of themselves. And maybe that's what has to happen. I think there may be a certain expectation in your readership with this genre, of, of having this trope, this is a trope that I can't stand, when all the main characters, like, start to squabble and, like, maybe we're not friends anymore. And it usually happens toward the end of the second act, going to the third before they kind of reunify, reconstitute and, you know, trade friendship bracelets before the final battle.
00;16;06;28 - 00;16;26;00
Unknown
I'm not saying that it's a bad thing just because I have fictional baggage that I'm working through. Right. It it feels formulaic and maybe formulaic is good here. Like, we like tropes, right? Like they they lend subconscious structure. They give that sense of security of the reader that they have some idea as to what's going to happen next.
00;16;26;00 - 00;16;48;29
Unknown
So take everything that we say with a grain of salt on that front, just because it gets my hackles up doesn't mean it's not good. Yeah. Okay. So with that, with that tremendous, caveat in place, painting in broad strokes, I do want to go through just a little bit more of the specifics. Some things that I did really enjoy.
00;16;49;02 - 00;17;23;05
Unknown
All right. So if you'll give me a second with that, yes, I this is a well done section. There's a few parts like, some context on, to AJ's dad. I'm sorry, Luke's dad that I did enjoy. Once again, the fact that he works out of town, you know, kind of mentioning vaguely what income bracket he's in, the fact that the house looks nicer in the yard, or what kind of things that continue to ground this in the real world and give it a sense of balance compared to the supernatural elements.
00;17;23;05 - 00;17;54;25
Unknown
And I think you do a really good, really good job throughout the book of continuing to do that so that this does feel, you know, dare I say, realistic with the, you know, writer and hounds and fairy portals and all that. But, so good job with that. I, I like a lot of the kind of awkward small talk that happens or the even just the lack of ability to speak, around the campfire towards the beginning of this whole interchange, you know, marshmallows are just falling off into the flames and, you know, exploding for a lack of concern.
00;17;55;00 - 00;18;22;10
Unknown
Everybody's space now and just angry and awkward. All that is, is beautiful. So, good job there. A lot of subtext going on. You kind of. You show that without telling, which I. I really appreciate. I did notice one other thing that up till now I have, sort of refrained from actively, commenting on, I may have dropped a comment 1 or 2 times.
00;18;22;13 - 00;18;42;20
Unknown
I don't know if you've read the early sections, but, just regarding punctuation and this is kind of a this might be a picky thing, but, up till now, when you have an instance in which it looks like two sentences are sort of running together, for lack of better words, and I can find an example, you'll kind of marry those two sentences together with the comma.
00;18;42;22 - 00;19;04;07
Unknown
In some instances in which I feel like a period would be more appropriate. Let's see if I can find one here. Yes. Okay. So what period. What pages. This I think we have talked about this on our first page, as a matter of fact, that, paragraph starting with, Luke and Layla chatted about a teacher at school.
00;19;04;07 - 00;19;30;06
Unknown
Comma. Layla's grades were slipping, comma. And Luke was offering to help her with their history. Homework. Comma is one good subject. I think those are two really great sentences. I just think that you might consider doing a period in place of that first comma to separate them. I think up till now I've attributed to that, to the fact that you're kind of sprinting through a first draft, and that just may be a style choice that, you know, I don't prefer, but your readers may love.
00;19;30;09 - 00;19;51;27
Unknown
If you had any any thoughts on that? Yeah, that was something I noticed about myself when I was going through. And editing is I have a lot of run on sentences because I'm trying to make it flow, but really, like you say, some of the sentences to definitely be be split up. I might just drop to I could I can still hear you.
00;19;51;29 - 00;19;58;07
Unknown
Yeah. You're good. Unless you can't hear us.
00;19;58;09 - 00;20;15;07
Unknown
Oh my gosh. So sorry about that. You probably gave the best answer ever. That was terrible timing. I can hear you now. Okay. Yeah, I was just saying how, like, when I went back to edit this, I noticed that about myself, that I have a lot of run on sentences. So. Yeah, that's a good catch. Okay, cool.
00;20;15;12 - 00;20;39;27
Unknown
Short answer for a long rant. Yeah. Yeah. Overall, I think this was a very good section. There's there's some moments that surprised me, like just coming out and telling more like, maybe you're not good for us, as, you know, as a friend. Like, ouch. But also very much in line with his character and a conclusion that he probably would have jumped to in defense of his friends.
00;20;39;29 - 00;20;56;02
Unknown
Just like Luke is kind of being an idiot, but he's doing it in a way that feels very loyal to his sensibilities. Right? Like he thinks he's protecting his friends by tackling this dude who is going to get owned by, Warren, getting to that point where he's like, you know what, maybe I do want to fight you right now.
00;20;56;02 - 00;21;24;01
Unknown
And then he he settles for a condescending little slap, like, all those things are really beautiful, and I'm for the character. So, yeah, I don't know if I have too much more to say. It's it's not the chapter that we wanted. It's the chapter we deserved. Batman. I don't know. If I did feel like a necessary natural justice, even though you didn't necessarily like it, it's like,
00;21;24;04 - 00;21;42;15
Unknown
Bunch of movies where you have, like, like the entirety of the order of the Phoenix. I'm reading Harry Potter Book five right now, which is probably doesn't help. Yeah, but yeah, it's a necessary it was a necessary step. Like, I remember having, like, moments like this when I was a teenager. Probably. Why? I don't like reading them.
00;21;42;17 - 00;22;09;28
Unknown
And you're also so nice to your characters, Darcy. Yeah. They do it. Yeah. Like it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Any questions for us? Tyler. I'm still, I still I'm still feeling like I haven't done enough groundwork with Warren to make his motivation to help the baddies. Feel right. Would you guys. Yeah, I like I said, I think you're getting to it where he talks about, like mentioning.
00;22;09;28 - 00;22;36;08
Unknown
I don't have a lot of family left. My mom doesn't have a lot of family left. If we could find this one person, that would be good. So I think if you make the scene with Warren visiting mom at work, maybe reminiscing a little bit about how they don't have a lot of family, when he mentions finding the finding his aunt would be a big thing, a big deal that starts solidifying these kinds of moment.
00;22;36;11 - 00;22;56;20
Unknown
Motivations. It is how I view it. What about you, gray? What do you think, man? I'm just going to copy JK again. That suggestion sounds pretty solid to me. I would say that I didn't have a problem with his, based off of Warren's initial conversation with the sheriff or not the initial conversation, but the one that they have in, the more, the more.
00;22;56;23 - 00;23;16;14
Unknown
Yeah. I feel like I understand why Warren would be desperate enough to jump into that conclusion, into that position. Could you strengthen that? A little earlier on, with some hints that, you know, family is everything to Warren? I think he did a good job spelling that out. But something about the aunt in particular, maybe earlier on.
00;23;16;14 - 00;23;41;18
Unknown
I don't know how you could work that in, Or just how lonely his mom is. Maybe that's already there. And I'm just forgetting. I don't necessarily think it's bad at it as is, but you could you could level that up a little bit. Yeah. Reading ruin it through. So my, my, most harsh major reduced to this point have been my mom and my older sister, which, you know, typically is not your family.
00;23;41;18 - 00;24;00;20
Unknown
I feel like that's harsh with you, but my family is. And that's that's just the way we are. I guess. But working with them, I think that I have, like, three reasons for wanting to be working to open the gate to get his aunt back. Get the hounds back and get allies against whatever's in the woods.
00;24;00;22 - 00;24;19;26
Unknown
And I feel like those are three good reasons, but they're. I don't work with them enough, and I think I need to strengthen at least one of them to the point where I can stand by itself. Yeah, well, he has, I feel like Bradley felt a little more upfront with him about giving answers than Nan or the others were initially.
00;24;19;26 - 00;24;37;12
Unknown
Yeah. So even if he knows he doesn't like this guy, he's just like, asking for someone to throw him a bone at that point in the story, to give them information, to give him something actionable. Warren, like, wants to act on the problem because he's tried sitting on the sidelines up to that point.
00;24;37;14 - 00;25;06;02
Unknown
Yeah, I think even though the initial sort of motivation was blackmail, like the sheriff blackmails him into helping essentially, I think that the fact that he got he gets answers from Bradley is a big way to shift motivations. And if AJ asks, he says, so why are you helping them? He can say, because he gave me answers.
00;25;06;04 - 00;25;24;05
Unknown
I think that gives him a strong motivation because, like gray said, Warren is somebody who likes having something to do. He wants action. He wants something to be able to act on. And Bradley gave him that. Whereas Nan Nan's always telling him, stay out of the woods, stay out of the woods, stab in the woods. It's none of your business.
00;25;24;05 - 00;25;52;25
Unknown
Stay out of this. It's none of your business. Don't do this. Don't do this. And while that sort of fits Warren's personality of. I don't want to upset mom at the same time, there's people to be helped and there's danger to be beat. And so it feels like that also works into that side of his personality. So I'm also starting to lean towards the reason to not get involved.
00;25;52;27 - 00;26;21;23
Unknown
Well, like you said, the not upset his mom. That feels like almost two weeks of a reason now I feel like I need to do something. There. Well so so on that. Do you address the missing dad in this book? You do like doo doo doo doo doo. We get a flashback. Do we get, oh, PTSD memories. Like, do we see?
00;26;21;25 - 00;26;53;23
Unknown
Because again, that could be again. I don't know what you're I don't know what your overall plan is, but that could be a way to help emphasize. You know, Warren doesn't want to upset mom because. And here's the flashback scene. Because this is how dad died. Yeah, right. That's. Yeah. I just kind of assumed that Warren's deep emotional wound is his lack of family and the lack of his father, and therefore the, you know, the feeling that he has to protect his mom from further harm because she's suffered so much already.
00;26;53;23 - 00;27;27;00
Unknown
Like, that's his core and emotional anchor, his core motivation when everything else is stripped away right? That's what it feels like to me. Is that kind of how you want to run up when I'm. Want your readers to view him? There we go. I think that's I think that's definitely how I want my roots to fear. I don't, though all of them will feel that some of this like a little bit more emphasis on the mom, dad, mom, son relationship, I think would be a step in the right direction for.
00;27;27;02 - 00;27;54;13
Unknown
That helped a lot. That's like that's like the moment where you had Jesse, where you're able to, like, finish your book. So that was not a problem. I'm glad to hear it. Honestly, I feel like I understand your character's motivations, like they're they're straightforward in a believable human way that I wish I was more capable of writing my characters and like, like, Wheels within wheels is kind of fun until you're just like, just give me someone who I understand, I don't paint.
00;27;54;14 - 00;28;22;22
Unknown
Yeah, I think I did that. Yeah. Characters are hard, man. Yeah. And you do a good job of them, so I appreciate that fairly. None of them have Arcs except for Warren, you know. I think we're seeing part of an AJ arc a little bit. Yeah. I think for, especially for like a yeah, the I think I made their arcs a little bit too subtle.
00;28;22;24 - 00;28;44;10
Unknown
Yeah. I mean the feedback I'm starting to get back from my readers. Yeah I can, I could see how that I want to, I want to reserve judgment until out until we've finished it. And then I want to see if I can if I can tease out the arcs like Warren Warren, we're seeing his arc. I don't think we should or Natal arc from Luke in this one.
00;28;44;11 - 00;29;19;21
Unknown
Again, he he is an important character that plays an important role, but that role needs to stay what it is from everything we've read. And I think AJ and Layla. Maybe not full arcs, but starting their arcs. Starting their their path. I think. Yeah. And especially with this being a planned trilogy. So that's maybe this is a good time to go off on a little bit of a writing tangent that we can click later to have a shorter writing topic.
00;29;19;21 - 00;29;51;22
Unknown
But yeah, if you choose the difference between like static and dynamic characters, round and flat. Yeah. So so I was just talking about with with some of the characters not needing arcs, they don't really need to change throughout the story. That's a, that's a static character, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but you definitely want your main characters main like 2 or 3, probably to be dynamic characters where they do change because hopefully, you know, it's clear that Warren has been changing throughout this book and then round characters where they're just kind of fleshed out.
00;29;51;22 - 00;30;09;20
Unknown
They're they feel like real people. They feel like they're there's some you could walk into on the street, like Luke, even though he doesn't change, hopefully he still feels like a real person. You know, your stereotypical redhead, and gray out there. If you saw my comment on YouTube to your question about what I have against redheads. My sister is a redhead.
00;30;09;23 - 00;30;36;16
Unknown
She was one of my harshest critics that I just mentioned. I, I really appreciated, her feet. Not that she's listening to this, but if she would, Yeah. What was I saying? Character arcs, character arcs. Round, round and flat. Flat five characters. They're just kind of like the the the extras, basically, like Brianna, when you guys meet Brianna, she's a flat character, the piece of furniture that exists within the world.
00;30;36;16 - 00;31;00;02
Unknown
Because she gets mentioned twice. She's she's a flat character, an NPC to an NPC. Exactly. And you need all those. You need all of these characters in your books, unless you're writing something like, Robinson Crusoe. No, not even Robinson. Like, I like a book. Hatchet, hatchet. There we go. Hatchet one character essentially. Yeah. Except even then there are other characters that you think about.
00;31;00;02 - 00;31;27;28
Unknown
But anyway, you know what I mean. You need them all, and then you get to have your main one should be round and dynamic. Yes. That's the the hardest part sometimes is, is making sure that your characters have flaws, things that they're things that make them human. And nothing, nothing annoys me more than when you can tell a writer and I've.
00;31;27;28 - 00;31;56;19
Unknown
I've done this has a pet character or a pet group where they don't really make mistakes, they don't really encounter issues. They don't really have flaws like that, Yeah. The Mary Sue. Yeah. And sometimes, like, we think of the Mary Sue as a single character, but there are Mary Sue groups in books where, there is a series my wife enjoys reading.
00;31;56;19 - 00;32;23;05
Unknown
I'm not going to say who it is, not going to say the series because, but in this series, there is a group that is presented in such a way that you can tell the author thinks she's giving them issues, thinks she's making their life hard and really, and in reality, she's not they're not it's not a they're a boring group to read.
00;32;23;08 - 00;32;44;24
Unknown
And it's like these people are utterly uninteresting because you don't want them to be anything other than easy. They're having their lives be easy. Is this an Amish romance novel? No. Quick. Okay, good. I just upset all of our Amish listeners.
00;32;44;26 - 00;33;05;29
Unknown
No, I've never had Ordinary Time. I. I've never read a bad Amish romance book. My sister literally had one called A Cousin's Marriage. And it the context is completely different for what you're thinking, but I gave her no end of it since we're just sister bashing today, I have too many sisters to bash. I should never read an Amish romance book, so that's funny.
00;33;06;02 - 00;33;25;20
Unknown
That's hilarious. We could go on and on about our sisters. I'm sure. I have one thing. So on the subject of dynamic characters, the best example I have ever read, bar none, is actually this unproduced script. Have you guys ever heard of Harrow Alley?
00;33;25;22 - 00;33;48;21
Unknown
So it's actually the most famous unproduced work in Hollywood. It's this script that reads more like a novel. Because it was made so long ago. It's basically the story of the Black Plague and how it just wreaked havoc on London and, you know, killed millions. But it's basically the story of two men, one of whom is a scoundrel, and he'll do anything he can do to survive.
00;33;48;23 - 00;34;05;06
Unknown
He will pickpocket. You will steal. I think he murdered someone at one point. And then you have someone else. That's a really upstanding guy. He's like an alderman or someone in leadership within the city entrusted with the safety of folks. He'll do everything he can to save everyone at the cost of his own life, if it comes down to it.
00;34;05;09 - 00;34;26;18
Unknown
And by the time the script finishes, the story ends. These two have essentially reversed roles, so that one has become a scoundrel in the name of surviving it, because he's so tired of having to save everyone else. And the other basically becomes like the sheriff, and he's like, fine, I'll be the responsible guy. And it happens in such a believable way that I just like, oh my gosh, hats off.
00;34;26;18 - 00;34;46;03
Unknown
I don't remember the name of the writer, but it's, it's such a bleak, awesome story and just an example of role reversal. Almost like they they basically switch places if you get the chance. Go check out Hero Alley. I think it's just floating around on the internet. You can download it for free. You get a free virus or whatever kind of cool hero like hero.
00;34;46;06 - 00;35;08;05
Unknown
So yes. Nice. Yeah, that sounds really cool. Okay, shall we move on? Yeah. I think I had another thought about characters, but it's gone, so. Sorry. So. No. You're out. It wasn't your fault. I think I was already gone before you started speaking. Feel a little bit better now? You'll think of it later in the night as you're trying to sleep.
00;35;08;11 - 00;35;11;16
Unknown
Sure I will, yeah.
00;35;11;19 - 00;35;16;17
Unknown
Okay. Should we move on to Jessie?
00;35;16;20 - 00;35;40;07
Unknown
Yeah, let's do it. And you were going to go first for that one, weren't you? Good. Yes. I volunteered to go first for this particular, piece of literature here that you've written, Jason. But before we get forget Q future feature, Jessie. Hey, everyone. Future Jessie here. No longer sick. So I don't have my gravelly, raspy, nasty voice.
00;35;40;07 - 00;36;11;22
Unknown
But anyway, this week's segment is a flashback. It reveals a lot about the case. It's from Jessica's perspective when she is, teenager senior in high school. It fills in backstory, explains her relationship with her client, Darren. And all of the, subtle hints that I haven't been putting in there are explained.
00;36;11;24 - 00;36;36;13
Unknown
And it goes into a little bit about, who they are, what their relationship was like. I said, where why they're in the situation that they're in now, and why they seem to not remember each other. And it also gives a brief glimpse of what it's like for Jessica to have her rage power take over. And she gets to unleash.
00;36;36;16 - 00;37;03;26
Unknown
So I don't need to go into detail. She gets to unleash her full strength, full anger and everything on ace. The fifth, who is capable of withstanding everything Jessica can throw at her and being completely fine. It gives Jessica a chance to vent out all of her frustration. It is a fun scene. I enjoyed writing it. And I hope you guys enjoy listening to it or about it.
00;37;03;29 - 00;37;27;13
Unknown
Thank you. Here we go. Oh man, we're going to get it. We're going to get it. Okay. So, Jesse, just kind of, an opening. I thought this was absolutely your best section, bar none that I've read so far. Not just in Technomancer. I think in anything that you've submitted to this group thus far, I was curious.
00;37;27;13 - 00;37;52;01
Unknown
I'm going to second that. I think you completely agree. So good. Thank you. When did you did you write this on your on your streak. Did you write this out for the group formed? Yeah. Yeah. This this was this I think this was like their day one or day two of the the writing sprint. Did this also have the paragraph that you write wrote that your wife wrote for you?
00;37;52;02 - 00;38;18;28
Unknown
No, that's probably in the next one. Okay. I was curious as she went through some of this. She helped me with some of this, don't get me wrong. But, okay, so this section, we, we opened up and I was actually kind of confused initially because as we all know, I am not the brightest bulb in the box, so I do not always look at the time stamps that you have so generously provided, to your reader.
00;38;19;00 - 00;38;36;07
Unknown
So this particular time stamp is dated six years before the one in the last chapter, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, it took me a second, but once I did, I was like, that's a cool way to do a flashback. You just kind of jump to it. It's, really a natural point from where the last chapter left off.
00;38;36;09 - 00;39;00;02
Unknown
So once I kind of got over that confusion, I was I was really happy to be back in the past. I will say that I think the the weakest part of this entire section does come, right at the very beginning. Because the rest of the section is so good that it makes this, this first section the lead into the flashback feel a little weak.
00;39;00;04 - 00;39;21;10
Unknown
I feel like, gosh. Remember chapters ago when we had that awkward romance section that I so enjoyed discussing between Darren and Jessica, where both Tyler and I were like, that's a little forward of him. Like, this is he's coming onto her fast. Now I get why. That that section still feels a little bit weird, but this section feels like everything.
00;39;21;10 - 00;39;43;14
Unknown
I wanted that to be, like, this natural progression, this romance that that feels so heartfelt. You've already established fact that they know each other. So before we get to that good stuff, I want to just kind of address that opening section. I feel like we are kind of dropped in, to a little bit of this just, I don't know, we're just kind of,
00;39;43;19 - 00;40;07;27
Unknown
Jessica, that that for life is just dumped on us. She had a power jump, the term that you used. And she was unfamiliar with how to use her power jump. She almost succumb to, rage, which is another kind of the dark side of her ability. Right? Which is super cool. We get the feeling that she had some sort of blow up during, like, a track meet, and her coach is not able to salvage it, and her friends just kind of flitter away.
00;40;07;27 - 00;40;33;06
Unknown
Like they're not going to support her and her her crack career, her track career. Excuse me? It's just ended on the spot. And I was like, that is so cool, but you just kind of spell that out for us. Like, her track career is over. I'm like, I want to be in that moment. And I feel like I've given this comment before, and I was just kind of grasping at straws for how to convey that in a way that's not just like, okay, Jesse, show don't tell.
00;40;33;08 - 00;40;56;04
Unknown
Because I feel like, you know, we've said that before. We tell that to each other. So I did something, and I. I hope you'll forgive me. I took a liberty here. I just kind of. It's built into the document, but I was just like, let me put my hands in the meat of this and just kind of rearrange things and just kind of like, build a little bit of prose and just kind of expand what you already have.
00;40;56;06 - 00;41;23;20
Unknown
I know that you didn't give me permission to do that, so I just. Do you have enough room on your cover for another coauthor since you already? Yeah, I'm just trying to get credit. So I try to steal your readers. So you can take that as you will. I don't think it really recreates that JC magic, and it's it's definitely a little bit of my flavor, but I just, I don't know, I really wanted to unpack that section where she sits down in the locker room with her coach, and I just I just took a stab at it.
00;41;23;23 - 00;41;44;14
Unknown
Feel free to disregard all of that, but I hope it's, helpful to you. And not that we're going to take the time to to read through that right here. Now, well, I almost want to, you know, I mean, we could share your screen are grab. Yeah. How do you share a screen? There's a little button on the bottom with the, arrow in a box.
00;41;44;17 - 00;42;08;11
Unknown
Yeah, right. Right there. So, JC, are you okay with us doing this? So this is still your doc? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm. I'm okay with it. I'm okay with it. There's an arrow in a box. Right? I should be in between raise and leave on my. Okay. Share. All right, let's see. Oh, I must have more buttons on you guys since I'm the host, because I have.
00;42;08;14 - 00;42;28;06
Unknown
You have way more. Yeah, right. I even have I found this out the other day. I will have sound effects. I can do, That's awesome. Okay. Can you guys see? That is. Yep. Would it be helpful if I read through that or, like, how would that most be helpful to you? Did you read it in that comment or did you write it in the.
00;42;28;06 - 00;42;48;02
Unknown
So the comment is JC, please forgive me. I will never do this again, but I just put it right in the body track. Guys is on so you can see everything that's changed. Yeah. Yeah. Tyler, do you want to read that out loud? Would that be helpful just to have a neutral third party? Sure, I can do that.
00;42;48;05 - 00;43;09;06
Unknown
I've just from the start. Right. It looks like it's just right from the beginning. Jessica, pack your bags slowly blank stare on her face, head drooping. Lucky her. She had the whole locker room all to herself. Not like anybody wanted to share with her after what she does. That's good. Jessica's hands trembled, making you drop in for track sneakers as she fumbled with the bag trick.
00;43;09;12 - 00;43;29;04
Unknown
She yelled, letting slip just a sliver of the rage which had bottled up inside of her. She snatched up the sneaker and chucked it at one of the mirrors across the room. Shards of glass clattered all over the sink below, just a sliver. The locker room creaked open. Coach Daniels took a tentative step inside, ponytail flipping the one side.
00;43;29;06 - 00;43;44;28
Unknown
There's a ponytail. I love it. I'm assuming she's a woman because I was like, if she's coming to a locker room, that's weird. Oh yeah, that's that's a point. For some reason, Daniels, in my mind, is a man's name, but it's the last name, so that makes sense, to the ones that slip into it. And then she glanced at the busted mirror.
00;43;45;01 - 00;44;10;22
Unknown
I've been telling the superintendent that we need to remodel this dump, Jessica chuckled dryly. I got you, coach. That was a tough break, Jess. Yeah, that I need you to. Should just be able to scroll. You should just scroll. And I like to do it. Not in Riverside, but just on the document. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just. Oh, I see it.
00;44;10;24 - 00;44;32;29
Unknown
Coach sat down on the bench near Jessica. Patty, the start spot beside you. Let's decompress. Jessica shrugged, trying not to let her emotions get the better of her. If she started crying. Rage might try to take over. A flash of worry colored her cheeks. Nobody got hurt, right? At least nothing serious. Coach smiled weakly. No, we got lucky this time.
00;44;33;01 - 00;44;50;05
Unknown
Jessica gripped her hands into fists around the fabric of a shirt. That, and deep breaths were all she could do to brace yourself against it happening again. Jess, I'm just going to say something here, and you've heard it 100 times before. Power jams happen. Especially. You want to capitalize the P after and dash, by the way. Yeah.
00;44;50;05 - 00;45;12;22
Unknown
Sorry. Especially to upper tier Exceptionals. There's no shame in it. It's just bad timing. Jessica felt the tears welling up in the corners of her eyes. But why? Today, of all days, the question came out like a whimper. Koch wrapped her arms around. Just go. Hey, hey, you did everything you could have done. Yeah. Push yourself harder than anyone else on this track team.
00;45;12;24 - 00;45;34;04
Unknown
What happened out there? Nobody could have predicted that. She released the hug slowly. Jessica blinked away, the tears rubbing at the still red blotches on her knuckles. Is there. Do you think I can still compete this season? I know I'll make make me get stronger. Sometimes the jumps in and faster and all that. But the Athletic Association had a plan for dealing with pathogens, right?
00;45;34;06 - 00;46;01;00
Unknown
Is there any chance they can. You know, I want to compete. I still want to win. Jess. Coach, look, you're straight in the face. We need to talk. I think that's pretty much it. There's a little bit more that I kind of like, fumbled over, but. Yeah, I don't know. Does that, does that, like. Yeah. Yeah. No it it it it does say that that that's what you have is so good.
00;46;01;00 - 00;46;34;26
Unknown
I'm just like I want more. Yeah. No, that's one of the that is part of the, probably the part of the scene I struggled with the most is how I wanted to progress from, Where the scene starts to where I wanted it to go. I wanted that flow to happen. And sometimes I'll just sort of get words down and move past the parts where I struggle with, so having that will hopefully help me when I go back and do the edits in the read through to give me the direction I need.
00;46;34;26 - 00;46;51;04
Unknown
So I appreciate that a lot. Cool. Okay. Glad to hear you say that. I just because I feel like when I would, I ask sometimes I'm like, oh, I really want to be in this moment with the characters. I want to feel like the present. You do that in the rest. Like right after that, you go, you launch into it.
00;46;51;04 - 00;47;17;20
Unknown
Like the interactions with, Darren and the McNamara sisters. It all feels like it's coming together. The threads are connecting, and I'm like, this is the seed of everything that's, you know, happening later in the book, just down to all the little details, like, all the conversation feels so crisp. Darren is awkward, but we get to see these moments where he, like, tenses up to defend Jessica, which I love.
00;47;17;20 - 00;47;37;03
Unknown
Like seeing this other dimension of him. He's a little bit more hot water this part in his life. You know, we're getting some of the things that they've talked about, the fact that, like, their parents didn't want them dating, it feels so much more real in this section. Gosh, there's, there's even, like, worldbuilding details when you talk about cyclones, the name of the water park.
00;47;37;03 - 00;47;55;24
Unknown
And you mentioned some of the cool things that they can do there that are exclusive to to your world about how certain classes of exceptionals can do different amusements, you know, different things within the park. Awesome. Just down to the way like, the sisters are talking about their bathing suits and such petty terms, like, yeah, I'm trying to attract attention like you.
00;47;55;24 - 00;48;17;14
Unknown
You do that in such a balanced way with that. Like describing the curves of her body being like smooth speed bumps in the road, like nothing stupid like that. Just like it's all classy. It's just, you say a lot with a little there, and I'm like, dang, where did this come from? Like, I don't know, I feel like you just it wasn't bad before, but you just leveled up like crazy here.
00;48;17;16 - 00;48;38;19
Unknown
It definitely need to clip that part speed, focus on the road. Drink too much apple juice before this. I don't know what to say. I've got a lot of little comments that are just a lot of little kudos, basically, a comment on the natural law shifting and how much Tyler is going to hate it, but I don't know.
00;48;38;19 - 00;48;58;28
Unknown
Other than that, just like I. Oh, okay. Sorry. Also, I promised don't do that. But, when you get out of a flashback the way that you do it, I almost like, don't want to spoil it here. Like what he just said. What? And then boom, like, it swaps back to the present. But it feels like such a natural stopping point where I'm like, oh, I want more of this.
00;48;58;28 - 00;49;15;29
Unknown
Oh, but now we're in the present. We're getting some answers as to why this happened. That that switch, it's intentionally jarring, I think, in such a way it's like, I don't know, it's just brilliant. Good job. Thank you.
00;49;16;02 - 00;49;42;20
Unknown
We're agreeing with each other an awful lot in this episode. It's kind of disturbing. You guys are on your think that. Yeah, yeah. Same thing. Really, really enjoyed it. It felt like it made like a lot of other things click, you know. And it was a really emotional, really powerful section. Massive massive kudos to you I think for those is actually not supposed to be pluralized.
00;49;42;20 - 00;50;05;08
Unknown
I think it's actually just queued up. You get one queued up, I think. I think you get one queue though linguistically speaking that might be right. You remember that, incorrect way. It was a little bit confused, at the very start. And then I checked the time. So there might be something where you could just have, like another line on your on your header just like six years ago or something like that, just to make that.
00;50;05;13 - 00;50;25;17
Unknown
Because if people are like me, like most people, they're just going to they're, they're skimming over the, the those times. Yeah. They're probably not really looking unless they need to like in this case. A bunch of little things honestly. Like with the track meet, when they are talking about going to cyclones and then to dinner, it was like, how do they have that much time left in the day?
00;50;25;17 - 00;50;42;03
Unknown
Because I was in track and, you know, track meet was like, usually they go in like the evening was like, how do they still have time? Oh, it's the on the clock. And, and that's there's a minor graph like maybe it's a Saturday. Me you know, this happen and then maybe she's just leaving early winter events or that's fine.
00;50;42;03 - 00;51;10;10
Unknown
But I was like, yeah, she should be sticking around in supportive increments. That's a really small thing. I like that we're getting a little bit of Darren as before, he gets to be a billionaire. I wanted to get a little bit more specificity. Like he just says when he's talking about, paying for dinner. Things have been going pretty good.
00;51;10;10 - 00;51;24;16
Unknown
It's like, what things mean? Like, what are you doing? And then. And then when when Jessica's, like, surprised and like he's somehow been hiding it from her. That didn't make a lot of sense to me. Because, you know, as a, as an entrepreneur.
00;51;24;19 - 00;51;49;06
Unknown
Yeah. Not a failed one. Yeah. Not a successful one yet. You know, I've got all these schemes, you know, and my wife definitely knows about the schemes. And obviously there's a different relationship between Darren and Jessica, but I feel like she would she would at least know about the schemes. And it's not like you build that kind of massive wealth in a way that easy to hide, if that makes sense.
00;51;49;08 - 00;52;04;15
Unknown
So I thought it would be. It would be an easy thing just to make it. Oh, that deal with the Johnsons went through. I sold the house. He's like a real estate billionaire. Yeah, that's what he does. So that would make sense, like I. Oh, I sold my first house and, you know, then he's rolling in the dough after that.
00;52;04;17 - 00;52;33;28
Unknown
That would be an easy thing just to make that specific and make sense. Why she wouldn't know. But he suddenly, on his way to becoming one of the wealthiest twentysomethings in New Davenport is frickin. Lizzie says you're, you use the bathroom in Go life to, yeah, that whole section like, no, no, no comments like, do, other how much do you want to talk about it?
00;52;33;28 - 00;52;56;00
Unknown
But I mean, it's, it is one of the key scenes to the book. So it's kind of it's maybe, maybe we want to say too much about it, but as they're at the very end of that flashback, as they're leaving the very capable SS, we don't we don't hit it. What happened? I felt like I needed a little bit something to hint at what happens because it's obvious what happens.
00;52;56;00 - 00;53;01;21
Unknown
But if you're not paying attention like a line of.
00;53;01;23 - 00;53;28;08
Unknown
Just read my comment. Don't make sense. I'm anything but. There's something there to to make it clear that something has happened to her. It'll be great. I don't know why she's not like, immediately. Like she's getting super angry and getting into a rage mode after the flashback. I don't know why she's not immediately going after Lizzie or talking about going after Lizzie, or thinking about going after Lizzie.
00;53;28;11 - 00;53;47;13
Unknown
I feel like that's something that that that should have happened. Even if it's that, you know, it's gets there in restraints or from doing that, which I think could be a cool thing. I love that ace takes her somewhere. I wanted a little bit more setting description, about where she takes her. And just lets her wail on there when bad size leads it.
00;53;47;13 - 00;54;10;19
Unknown
Good friends, right? So what a good friend. It makes me think of, Adam. Emma are a great. You might remember. It's a it's a Batman comic. And Batman, just, like, punches Superman square in the face and almost breaks his hand. Something with Derek. I don't remember, but I know you've read more comics than I have, but kind of reminded me of that.
00;54;10;19 - 00;54;39;06
Unknown
Where? Where ace is just able to take it and kind of make things easier for Jessica and around me of like, Hulk or something almost. Yeah. Rage mode. But yeah, like, yeah. And then honestly, like, that's all. That's all that I really had to say. Okay. You know, actually rage mode, though, can I actually, I was a little bit, confused about, like, the parameters of rage mode.
00;54;39;09 - 00;55;12;12
Unknown
You just kept her voice changing a little bit, but I was curious. It's. I don't want to describe it. It is sort of like the Incredible Hulk. They don't quite go full blown different personality, but it's like your system gets flooded with excess adrenaline that affects not just your physical, but also your powers. So somebody that has rage, their powers get enhanced and amplified by it.
00;55;12;15 - 00;55;48;00
Unknown
Generally, it's a physical classification power only like you're not going to find a mental class that has rage. Generally, it can happen, but not not really. And so yeah, it's it's all of their anger and everything tied to it suddenly just takes over. And yeah, it affects their heart rate, their, their hormones, their ability to think rationally.
00;55;48;03 - 00;56;11;25
Unknown
All of it. But on the flip side, it exhausts them exponentially faster. Sorry. One thing, if I'm looking for criticisms, other than that, for a section, I. Yeah, nit picking here, but when when ace does take her to to go wail on her and, like, put her in the timeout box and just like, okay, be mad burn off steam.
00;56;11;28 - 00;56;32;19
Unknown
I kind of wanted a little bit of that too. Maybe just a few punches worth it since we've been kind of starving for action a little bit. So think about it. I was actually going to ask. I was I was wondering about that if if it felt too much to actually see part of the fight start or not.
00;56;32;22 - 00;57;05;13
Unknown
Again, you guys aren't as familiar with ace not having read, you're a unit here, a unit, yeah. So maybe a little bit more on that. Fight them. Okay. I think I, I don't disagree with gray, but I didn't mind it like I knew what was happening. And and when you're talking about action, like, there was plenty of, not like physical action, obviously, but there was a lot of action, like both very a lot of important things happening.
00;57;05;13 - 00;57;35;10
Unknown
They kind of say, did my bloodlust is in probably the right turn. No, no, it was social action. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. There is the there's the chatting. There's the cattiness with all the girls. There was the that that the, the redacted. They can't like actually censor this after the fact and I mean, I, I don't, I don't want to have to.
00;57;35;13 - 00;57;53;16
Unknown
But yeah, I, I was very satisfied with that one thing I was going to say. So ace is off doing other things in her own book. At this point and I said this last time, we kind of sighs, I would love to get little hints about for your other readers. I would love, love the little hints about what's going on there.
00;57;53;16 - 00;58;17;14
Unknown
Like, yeah, does she have her, what do we call it when the detectives have, like, the red string all over the board? Oh, her her her, Murder board. Murder? Yeah. I think that's always a murder board, but. Yeah, yeah, but you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, that'd be cool. I don't know, I don't I don't know it again.
00;58;17;14 - 00;58;52;15
Unknown
What's going on in the other book? But yeah. Yeah. Kudos man. It was really good. Thank you. Appreciate it. That it you answered actually the question I had. No. Yeah. Thanks. Appreciate it. Glad to know that that scene work, that was that scene I was nervous about. Yeah. Honest. I gotcha, isn't it just the way it goes sometimes you're like this scene super good, and then it's just not what you did.
00;58;52;15 - 00;59;30;08
Unknown
Other times, like, this scene sucks or like, we loved it. Yeah. We're like, this scene has to work. Is it working? Yes. Yeah. It's scary. Yeah. Awesome. On the on the grace. On the grace. All right. Cue future me. Well, hey there, beautiful writing nerds. Here's some context for my submission this week. This chapter takes place entirely within the liminal space, which is basically just a mental reconstruction of an old rooftop from the seedy underbelly of the gutters, which you might recall exploring briefly in the first few chapters of the story.
00;59;30;10 - 00;59;58;04
Unknown
This chapter is kind of a juggling act between action and exposition. So initially, this unique mental space affords stills. In the end, the opportunity to duke it out, trading blows and quips as they vie for control of their shared body within their mind. Eventually, however, their master atrium shows up and puts the kibosh on all that. From there, we finally get a little bit more of an explanation and to some of the basic tenets and mechanics of memory magic with a pop quiz style exposition.
00;59;58;07 - 01;00;17;10
Unknown
I was pretty nervous submitting this for the guys to read this week. Because there is a lot going on in this chapter, and I'm not sure about holding off this long to the story to give what is effectively a dump on some of the magic system. This chapter ends with a big twist on Adrian's part, which I won't spoil here.
01;00;17;12 - 01;00;46;28
Unknown
And with all that in mind, let's see what the guys have to say, shall we? Very good. And I was gonna go first. I meant, like YouTube. You guys brought the file this way. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I was worried. I was really worried. Like, my first comment is, yes, with a Y as, I love, I love, love, love that first part where, where Nian and Stills are going at it in this, in this mindscape.
01;00;47;00 - 01;01;18;14
Unknown
I just I love things like this. It's like, link versus shadow link and Legend of Zelda. It took me a second to figure out that it was. It was that. But really, really cool. Really like that that like that fight scene. And then, atrium shows up and I don't really get what he's doing. Like, I don't, I don't understand his motivations, which is probably the point at this point.
01;01;18;16 - 01;01;43;21
Unknown
But I would love to know at least get little hints about why he's doing what he's doing. I guess he's dead. I guess he's actually dead. Do it now. Maybe this was another spoiler, but great trivia as well. Like you're fine, you're fine. Okay, I guess he's dead. I don't I don't know what he's doing. I thought this whole section with the pop quiz was a little bit, heavy handed for for exposition.
01;01;43;26 - 01;02;03;21
Unknown
I was wondering about that. Yeah, I, I think you could do this earlier and have it be like stills is explaining this to, like, the brick that we meet in the first section. That could be a good place. Like, and that or maybe stills is the audience is about to kill somebody and they're like, how did you do this?
01;02;03;26 - 01;02;24;00
Unknown
And then he launches into a monologue about his I don't know, I think there are other ways you could do this that aren't good stills. And then they should know all this stuff, like when you have magic powers and you've been training with, with a, master, you should understand as much as you as you possibly can, and it should be really important to you to understand this.
01;02;24;00 - 01;02;42;15
Unknown
So then I also didn't love that stills was like, nervous about the answers. Like, I felt like these were basic things about the magic system that he should have known and wouldn't necessarily need to be tested on. What else?
01;02;42;18 - 01;03;13;03
Unknown
A slip of the tongue I love him is is really dangerous, and I love that he's, like, hiding so much from them. I half expected him to turn into that, and I forget his name. You introduced him a couple sections back. The. The man eater, the nails. No, the, What was that? His name? Yeah. Nihilists. Okay, I was I half expected him to turn into that, and I don't think he did unless I'm misinterpreting what happened.
01;03;13;06 - 01;03;18;24
Unknown
But yeah.
01;03;18;27 - 01;03;38;01
Unknown
It felt like another section where we're getting a lot of questions answered. We're getting a lot of interesting things happened, like this whole their whole personalities being like actual personas that can kill each other and take over. That's pretty cool.
01;03;38;03 - 01;04;00;23
Unknown
Yeah. I was wondering how that would play this whole section. Like so much of it, I pantsed way more than I wanted to. I threw out so many, so many lines that I was like, I don't know if anyone's going to bite for this. How confusing this is going to be. What will be well received. But you also switch from nuance perspective to stills perspective, which was a little bit confusing.
01;04;00;26 - 01;04;14;01
Unknown
It's not something you can't do when you're in third person with limited, but you kind of want to be really careful when you do that, especially in these circumstances. Yeah.
01;04;14;04 - 01;04;30;24
Unknown
Yeah, that's that's what I got. JK so I do like the intro. I like cut out real quick or is it, why is it keep listen to us gray.
01;04;30;26 - 01;04;56;01
Unknown
Yes, we are professionals. We are professionals. Oh they're get for this. We got you. I'm trying to see what books he has on the shelf back there. Yeah, I there's a time. Trying to tell what that big white book is in the bottom, right? Yeah. Hey, check check, check. Can you hear us? Can you hear me? You hear us?
01;04;56;04 - 01;05;21;20
Unknown
I can hear you. Okay, okay. Okay. Good. Yeah. All right. Okay. Well, before you have it on your bookshelf. Behind you. Behind you. What is that big white book? So I think you saw there. Yeah, it's on the third third from the bottom or. Oh, from that one. Yeah. The Scottish novels by, the guy that wrote Doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hyde and Treasure Island.
01;05;21;22 - 01;05;42;29
Unknown
My, my boy Robert Robert Louis Stevenson, Robert Stevenson. Yes. I love that dude. Kidnaps especially in Catriona. The sequel are super good. The master of bone tries. Kind of. So I read kidnaped. I read kidnaped years ago. I didn't even know I had the sequel. Yeah, I thought it was actually pretty good. What a nerd.
01;05;43;02 - 01;06;07;00
Unknown
My camera here was over another little bit. You'd see my shelf, which is. I so want to see that. I just love that people can see my my Chicago Manual style up here. Yeah. Like. Oh. Editor. Yeah. Disturbing. I don't want to see that. I don't think about that. That's why people like you. Yeah, I maybe there should be something we do sometime, though.
01;06;07;00 - 01;06;32;24
Unknown
Is this, like, because we all have our bookshelves in the background, we should do. Yeah, I books definitely just just takes a papyrus scroll from upstairs. So you see has has one of the old, Dead Sea Scrolls. I was there that day. Tyler 2000. Oh, we've always guys sneak in an old joke. Yeah. Gotta get the old guy.
01;06;32;27 - 01;07;04;28
Unknown
Yeah, that wasn't what that was. That was one of their eggs. Quote. Results. You say that just doesn't look, what were we doing? All right. Those myself anyway, so I like the. I like the set up of the training scene. I like how you you give us a familiar and yet unfamiliar, like we know what the gutter is, but we didn't get a lot of it, and now we're getting a different view of it.
01;07;04;28 - 01;07;52;24
Unknown
But it brings us back to, you know, the familiar, so I'm gonna disagree a little bit with Tyler in the, exposition part of it. To me, it felt like atrium was testing the waters. How far? What do they actually know and how far have they they come? How far? Especially stills. Like, to me, it felt like it felt like he had the the Booksmart kid and the jock kid, and he was making the jock kid think, because the Booksmart kid then had all the answers.
01;07;52;26 - 01;08;17;25
Unknown
Teacher's pet. Yeah, he's like. And then stills glances at him like, am I is this right? And you can get I think you can get get away with it personally, because they also sort of share the mind. And this flipping of perspectives I get. First I was like, wait, we were Indians perspective. And then we were in stills perspective.
01;08;17;27 - 01;08;49;10
Unknown
But because the pressure suddenly goes on two stills from atrium, I think the perspective shift makes sense because it's a mind scape and they share the same mind. It is the same mind. Maybe you could put in some signposts, mental signposts, visual signposts saying that that's shifts, that all of a sudden it's not near and all the senators stills because they are the same mind.
01;08;49;12 - 01;09;21;00
Unknown
Couple of word choice things, repetitive words and scenes. I tagged the there's a modernism. I felt like a modernism. At least punch his own lights out. That one felt off. Let's see here. And then atrium shows up and starts the quiz. And.
01;09;21;03 - 01;09;43;12
Unknown
Yeah. Like I said, it felt like because you had mentioned it's time for training and he mentions that, hey, you've just taken another step. Let's review is how it felt is how it came across to me. There was you've made this next step. You're in the next phase. Do you remember or do you know why you're able to be in this next phase?
01;09;43;14 - 01;10;16;06
Unknown
Could it maybe have like the link explanation? Could that maybe have come in quicker or sooner somewhere. Yeah. That would that would that would shorten this scene up a little bit. And then. One of the interesting things is, is I like how they start using you start using familial terminology. Your brother, because in the end, and one of the things is we don't know is this stills.
01;10;16;06 - 01;10;51;21
Unknown
His body is this man's body, is this somebody else's body whose personality has been completely erased and they're just trying to occupy it? Are they? Actually brothers are like these. It starts a lot of interesting questions because of the magic system that you've created. And not only this atrium, use it stills starts using it. And it it puts an interesting spin on this weird relationship and this weird dynamic that's happening between stills and Neon.
01;10;51;23 - 01;11;34;02
Unknown
And that atrium is sort of watching, possibly cultivating, possibly trying to take advantage of, because, he's always come across as hostile to me, like in every scene, every like. I hate to belabor this one, but is that that scythe relationship? And you make an even noticed I even made it made a mention of that. Where he says where he's talking about balance and how balance is achieved, like they talk about in Star Wars, the CIS, the Sith end up with the rule of two.
01;11;34;04 - 01;12;01;05
Unknown
Always a master, always an apprentice. And then, you know, the apprentice always tries to kill the master, and either he becomes the master and gets an apprentice, or the master kills him and gets a new apprentice, or potentially takes the apprentice as apprentice. But anyway, and it it it all worked for me really well in setting up.
01;12;01;08 - 01;12;43;16
Unknown
Whatever you're planning on doing in the future, they it it will be really interesting to me. I have a lot of questions, a lot of theories, and a lot of thoughts about where is this dynamic between stills and the and going provided atrium doesn't do something and whatever. But I, I'm really curious to see that that the relationship that dual personality work its way out and figure it's, figure itself out or have them figuring it out.
01;12;43;18 - 01;13;20;00
Unknown
And then the last line. But one fails to see how that betters your odds of surviving, like that. That's a good like that's a good one to end the chapter with. And the only way you could, make that worse is if you went and did something else in the next chapter. Like, if you don't like, if you jumped to a completely different scene, different characters in the next chapter, like, we get girls perspective for a chapter instead of going right into what atrium is about to do, you're going to piss off some readers just throwing that out there.
01;13;20;00 - 01;13;33;13
Unknown
But at the same time, you're going to build that anticipation. What is happening? What is atrium about to do? Is he actually going to try to kill them? So yeah, I think great job.
01;13;33;15 - 01;13;43;22
Unknown
Like I said, I like where this is going. I like what you're doing with it.
01;13;43;25 - 01;14;07;16
Unknown
Cool. Appreciate that feedback, guys. A few questions to, back at you. So I will definitely take a look at how I can best implement, for lack of better terms, that kind of lower jump on the magic system. I was wondering if that was coming too late and if it was too heavy handed. So it's nice to have that perspective.
01;14;07;18 - 01;14;29;00
Unknown
I think I'll seek out a little bit, you know, like, someone to kind of bounce or tip the scales, I guess not not to tell you how to do it, but just cutting out, like, at least the first level, like links like that feels like basic stuff. Maybe even like that second level where where skills was would be one to brush over.
01;14;29;04 - 01;15;00;03
Unknown
Like, you don't have to cut out the brush over because it just feels like part of the heavy hand in this for me was it felt like they should know these things. I didn't know why they were struggling so much like this. I mean, obviously I'm a teacher. This is a normal thing. Repetition, repetition, repetition. But for a narrative like this, if the if you kind of gone straight to the profound, I would have, I would have enjoyed it more like, okay, straight to maybe I'm just not, giving my readers enough credit that they're going to be able to make that leap.
01;15;00;03 - 01;15;35;02
Unknown
I'm constantly wondering how much I can, you know, make people jump. Anyway. But yeah, I think I still think that those things should be explained earlier. Earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I well, you bring up the, merchant, you know, that was a link or becoming a link. I think that would be a spot where you could deal with that or, heck, even back when atrium takes over.
01;15;35;04 - 01;16;06;21
Unknown
Let's search, I think. Yeah. Birch at the beginning. That would be a spot. You could you could throw something in. So. Yeah. Cool. Okay. And then as to the, the actual mechanics, regardless of, when the explanation is kind of implemented, does that I was wondering, so there's like three tiers that are kind of explained this far, if that felt like too much of a jump from where stills and yarn have bid to the term master.
01;16;06;21 - 01;16;31;14
Unknown
Like, is that too much of a semantically loaded term, the term they've been using to refer to atrium? Yeah. Was that too much of a jump? I guess the question is, is how many levels are there? But there's probably different. Does it go beyond three? I would think that the second level has has a spectrum like you could be more powerful.
01;16;31;17 - 01;16;52;12
Unknown
Yeah, I would say there's four, but like three that are kind of like people think there's one that exists, kind of like in legend, like the the four catcher or whatever, which is. So I don't see that quite yet. Okay. Yeah. No, that's, that's what I was, because that's what I was wondering. So if three is the supposed final tier, then.
01;16;52;12 - 01;17;27;07
Unknown
No, that to me, that isn't because master has multiple, terms, multiple definitions, multiple ways it can be used. And I don't think it's necessary to come up with a unique term for it because you're using you're using familiar terms already for the previous two. So that's that's my thought. Would you think tug? Yeah, I was interested in you go in, like, the electricity route, which felt a little bit weird since.
01;17;27;12 - 01;17;56;17
Unknown
Am I frozen to you guys? Yup. Yes. Okay, well that's fine. Those B5 for idealist at least. Because you you brought them back down to fleet like technology. And so it was weird to me that at worst, they had to tell the wires and then the at least these first, the first two tiers are kind of. Sound very.
01;17;56;19 - 01;18;03;00
Unknown
Okay, cool. Oh. We lost him.
01;18;03;02 - 01;18;11;11
Unknown
I think he completed his start, though. That was a good place for him to drop out. Yes, we got that. At least.
01;18;11;14 - 01;18;41;06
Unknown
Yeah, that's a good question. I think because you I think, in my view, the way I look at it, you use the chain as the, the connection, the link, the thing that that connects them all and how they use magic. And so link and chain seem related to me. So maybe too much of a jump to use, like a second metaphor to describe the same concept.
01;18;41;08 - 01;19;08;03
Unknown
Yeah, I think I think if you stick within the, the chain metaphor, I think you're going to be a little bit better off. Yes. You. Yes. Yeah. We can hear you. I think like everything like, I don't know. Right. Another ice. Right. Exactly. I agree with what you said. This is right. Whatever you can think. Yeah. It's all good advice.
01;19;08;03 - 01;19;34;26
Unknown
Is that it? Yeah. Talking about staying within the the chain metaphor for the magic system because he's already using the connect the interconnection as the chain. So if a chain has links, what is a section of chain called. And then you go from there. That's what I think. But then it goes to server being the second tier, which yeah, it's very can I guess not maybe like not electricity but computer internet.
01;19;34;29 - 01;20;00;23
Unknown
Yeah. I almost kind of wanted to toy with those terms like a master, but then a server like haha, like the internet. But that might be too heavy handed too. Yeah, I'll have to to play around with that. With all that, I figured that would be the case of this chapter. Yeah, that's one of those. That's one of those fun parts of worldbuilding and magic building is is solidifying your terms and your terminology and your ideas.
01;20;00;26 - 01;20;23;00
Unknown
And I think you've talked about that before. JK so yeah, cool. The other big question that I had was, oh, are we getting a fourth person? This is what it would like be like to have four screens. I kind of like that. Yeah. Oh, God, I'm getting major echoes. That was weird. Oh, I bet I hope he ends up okay.
01;20;23;00 - 01;20;43;17
Unknown
Yeah, I think I'm good now. All. All right. Okay. Other, major question that I had was regarding atrium. So I've kind of had this. These are definitely undergone a transformation. And I know it hasn't been. You've caught on to the fact that, like, he's acting weird, like, this doesn't seem like the same atrium as before. He's smiling a lot.
01;20;43;17 - 01;21;20;03
Unknown
That's creepy. And then all of a sudden, like, boom, there's this actual physical manifestation. Now, I was curious how that played out in your guys's perspectives. Like, was that too dramatic? Was it described well, visually? Was it mysterious enough? But not to me. It made sense that he had a physical form in the mindscape. I didn't think that meant that he had a physical, form outside of their mind, and it almost made me wonder if he was now just one of the another persona like, maybe this is, I hope I'm wrong and I'm not spoiling anything for you.
01;21;20;03 - 01;21;41;23
Unknown
Great for for your story. Great. But it felt like he has the opportunity to kill the other two and just take over the body. Yeah, and that's what I felt like it was leading to that. That idea that severing his physical made him potentially slightly more powerful or more powerful or more potent or more capable in the mind space.
01;21;41;26 - 01;22;02;28
Unknown
And as a result, he could use that as a chance to get the jump on the other two and get a body back. The, the character designed for him was such a little pet thing. Like, I, I love pumpkins, I love jack o lanterns, and so any excuse I could have to to push that in here kind of make that it atriums.
01;22;02;28 - 01;22;20;03
Unknown
Kind of like simple. The symbol for this class of magic that kind of like devil may care, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. So really trying to, I honestly, I want to have, an illustrator actually design this and see what it looks like on paper. Be kind of cool. I'm sure you guys feel that way about your characters too.
01;22;20;03 - 01;22;36;24
Unknown
But, yeah, I actually actually, so the last section from last episode where you hear the bear I had, I make a picture. Yeah. Oh, I want to see that. Can you share your screen next time? I don't know if I still have it. It's not. It wasn't like, final thing. I was just like, oh, I wonder what I would do.
01;22;36;24 - 01;23;02;02
Unknown
Concept art I wouldn't use. I had to make the actual art for my bug. Don't go crazy internet. I was just storyboarding. Oh, get your pitchforks ready. Oh gosh, that drives me nuts. Oh, man. Okay, that is, that's all the questions I had about this section. Do we want to rant about AI again for a while? Crash oh, we do have a question.
01;23;02;02 - 01;23;31;17
Unknown
Head yeah, yeah yeah yeah. So great. Your friend had some questions for, JK about D&D, and then we were going to extend that into, role playing groups being, kind of like a writer's group, in a way. And then next week we're going to talk about and this is a question from your friend to me, was about how to find the good editor, but we're going to save that for a time when I have intelligent things to say about that, which is not going to be tonight.
01;23;31;20 - 01;23;54;26
Unknown
Yeah, we'll put the pressure on JK mostly for tonight and save it. Yeah. So, so where this question perhaps a little bit, more coherently question for you, Jesse and I, and I suppose we can extend this to anyone, in this group that has an experience with tabletop gaming or dandy or that sort of thing. But, I guess you had let slip, JK, that you were a very much into tabletop gaming.
01;23;54;28 - 01;24;17;03
Unknown
And so, we had a listener and my friend who is curious as to what sort of crossover, that sort of story design that you would do, either DMing or even just as a player doing that sort of shared method of storytelling that seems unique to that experience? What measure of crossover would then apply to, let's say, writing, a novel, hero unit or fantasy or otherwise?
01;24;17;03 - 01;25;03;01
Unknown
Because I know that you've dabbled in a few different genres that are speculative. So to establish, I guess, to establish my credentials, I've been playing role playing games, where we both on console, my first role playing game was the original Final Fantasy back in 1990. He's not old. And I have I have quite literally played every single Final Fantasy except for the two most, and then I have I have played Dungeons and Dragons third edition 3.5.
01;25;03;01 - 01;25;47;29
Unknown
Fourth edition. Fifth edition. I've played Pathfinder first and second edition, I've played Savage Worlds, I've played champions. I've played, The Dresden Files, I've played, fallout, from, Devious Games. I've played the cipher system from Monte Cook. So I have a little bit of background in gaming, a little bit. And I have either been a player or a DM, and at least half of those systems.
01;25;48;01 - 01;26;20;28
Unknown
And so I view it as the perfect opportunity to get sort of the writer's group experience without having to throw a script, out there, a critique out there for everybody to look at. As a DM, I get to play out, story ideas, set up ideas, set up traps. I've written adventures. I've never published anything, that I came close where these adventures come out and I want to see how do people react.
01;26;20;28 - 01;26;52;18
Unknown
So I have one that I've run four times now. It's a murder mystery, and it has played out four different times. Exact same setup, exact same clue's exact same situation for different for different answers to the question. So to me, it is an opportunity to figure out how could this story potentially go. And then as a player, I get to say, okay.
01;26;52;21 - 01;27;23;14
Unknown
How is my character going to react to a situation? I've played a wide variety of characters. And I get to look at as this character is designed with their backstory, how are they going to react? How are they going to respond to a situation? And in their response, how are other characters going to react to that situation, to that response, to those ideas?
01;27;23;17 - 01;27;51;09
Unknown
So it provides me ample opportunities to see different angles of storytelling. And I love playing tabletop games because not only do you get the element of the cooperative storytelling, where you're trying to help tell the best story that you can, when you add in the random probability of dice and the ability to look at a situation and go, yeah, we got this.
01;27;51;09 - 01;28;44;08
Unknown
Great. I rolled a one. I no longer have this, you're so. Yeah. Yes, yes. Like it. It changes how stories play out. It changes how, how ideas come to fruition. And sometimes we will explain our idea to our dungeon master, and we think we're explaining it really, really well. And then when it plays out, we're like, they didn't 100% understand what we were saying, but we're just going to go with it because that sounds interesting to, you if you want to get into a chance to just tell stories without necessarily being a writer, find your local game shop and start a starter game.
01;28;44;10 - 01;29;14;09
Unknown
Most of them are. Most of them are fairly user friendly, some of them are more complex, and you're going to want to have tried other systems first. You start with the idea and go from there. Probably. Yeah. I mean, there is, dandy. Fifth edition is a good starting point. If you're if you're just having to pick it up and do it yourself, then the complexity goes way up.
01;29;14;09 - 01;29;50;24
Unknown
Pathfinder second edition, really complex system. Another really good starter system. I think personally, I think is the two d20 system that the modifiers games uses for fallout and for Dune and for Star Trek. I believe. I really like it as a system. But every system has its weaknesses too. So, there's no such thing as the perfect system, despite what fans of some of these systems might say, every system has its strengths and weaknesses.
01;29;50;26 - 01;30;20;22
Unknown
So what you're looking for is a way to tell stories, and tabletop role playing games are a great way to tell stories. And see how you can interact with the story, how the story can change based off of the fickleness of a dice roll. Wow. We're just letting Jesse wax poetic about tabletop games is something to behold.
01;30;20;25 - 01;30;46;10
Unknown
That could be at some podcast. Hint, hint. Let me, let me let me broaden that question just a little bit. I think, there's a lot of information out there because so many people play a D and, or some of the people play, t t how they sell TTR packages. There's a lot of information about how they have a good group and how to weed out toxic players and stuff like that.
01;30;46;10 - 01;31;06;28
Unknown
And I think a lot of that same things could, apply to your age groups because, you know, obviously we are the the end word, about how to have a good writing group. But there's a lot of other things, like we don't have to be toxic, like, we're, we're we're a good group, guys. We're, we've got a good thing going.
01;31;07;00 - 01;31;28;15
Unknown
That's not always going to be the case. Unfortunately. When you just started. Right, this group having the skill set, having the, the tools to be able to make sure you're right, this group is as good as it can be, can be really good. And I think a lot of, D&D especially. Well, I'm thinking about the, the podcast, especially, nad pod, not another D&D podcast.
01;31;28;15 - 01;31;50;17
Unknown
They have a, segment called Dungeon Courts where they'll put, listener listeners will give them stories, basically, and they'll put the people on trial and say, who was in the wrong, basically, and they'll, sentence the toxic player to do something ridiculous. That's not real, of course, but it's just kind of talking about. And then they'll give advice about what to do in that situation.
01;31;50;19 - 01;32;13;08
Unknown
And I think a lot of that would be very applicable to a writer's group. And this is probably the perfect opportunity to to announce that we are going to be starting our live Play Dungeons and Dragons podcast, Dmed by Gray. Yes, we have so much free time on our hands we cannot wait to jump into something else. We're not sitting around here writing novels yet.
01;32;13;09 - 01;32;36;22
Unknown
You don't have children. Oh man. Yeah, total joke until this podcast blows up. Then we'll we'll then we'll start another yes thing. Yeah. Then you'll look into it when we can all quit our jobs and and support our families on this podcast. We will. Yeah. Absolutely. No pressure guys. We'll get that Patreon up and ready. So get all of your friends on this podcast.
01;32;36;22 - 01;33;00;13
Unknown
Get everyone downloading or watching on YouTube so we can do that for you guys. Yeah. You know, we never say that. We when have we ever begged for listeners? We need to do that. You need to. What does it ring the bell like subscribe. Comment. Just smash that like button. Break into all of the algorithm, share the algorithm based comment sacrificed to the algorithm.
01;33;00;13 - 01;33;26;06
Unknown
God. So more people are brought to our, our our table. Yeah, that was a weird thing to say, but yeah. All right, we say weird things. But if you do find value in this podcast, leave a sarcastic comment or just something letting us know that you're you're out there and you're doing more than just lurking, you know, like, just, breathing in our ears would be enough to let us know that the stalking is still happening.
01;33;26;09 - 01;33;36;07
Unknown
Leave a little presence on our doorsteps. There we go. Don't do that. Adams address or Gray's address is.
01;33;36;09 - 01;34;04;08
Unknown
Joke's on you. I'm homeless. I just lost the studio. He breaks into someone else's house to record. There we go. You know, there are libraries out there that actually have recording booth that look like legit facilities, padded walls, microphones, the works, yeah. Nice. That would be good. Can I answer the, the tabletop question? Okay. Thank you.
01;34;04;11 - 01;34;24;17
Unknown
Permission. Great. I will also come at this question as pretty much a newbie. So we'll just assume just assume that with every question I answer that you're taking the proviso that these guys know what they're talking about. My only background with tabletop gaming, is with D&D fifth edition. I was in, one campaign that stretched on for quite some time, maybe a year and a half.
01;34;24;17 - 01;34;44;02
Unknown
Two years. And I know to some of you, that's that's nothing. Right. But, speaking as a player, I think it's a great experience. Like, I love that elements of randomness, like Jesse was saying, the fact that your fate lies with the day, it also lies with the DM. And I love the fact that the DM, they can treat this like they're writing a novel.
01;34;44;02 - 01;35;01;11
Unknown
They can have a whole agenda as to what they want the players to do. They can say that Castle is over there as a bridge going over molten lava. There's a kidnaped princess, there's all these bandits, and said, what do you guys want to do? And the players can turn around and just start slaughtering chickens in a village, you know, like they can.
01;35;01;11 - 01;35;21;18
Unknown
And it's a collaborative method of storytelling which lends itself to some really unique, possibilities. I there's a couple times in which some of the, our little episodes sort of got retconned. We call them the lost episodes because it's like a dream sequence, and we just did random stuff, and the DM was like, okay, cool, because that wasn't a dream.
01;35;21;18 - 01;35;38;10
Unknown
I can safely write that off. And now we're going to go do important stuff. That feels cheap. That's funny. Yeah. Have we start you start off with players do you think are going to actively be part of the campaign? Like you start off with writer's group and maybe it's a big group and then they kind of drop off the face of the earth.
01;35;38;10 - 01;36;01;27
Unknown
And and that can just be, NPCs that continue to stick around. And we just, like, steal their likeness and their character. Right. And you can even only create novelizations of campaigns if they go well enough. And if the story is coherent enough. I've thought about doing that before with the campaign that we ran. Yeah. It's, there's just I think it gets your brain pumping with with ideas, especially for worldbuilding.
01;36;01;27 - 01;36;21;10
Unknown
If you're the DM and you're not just using, a prefabricated, like, five, you know, setting, you know? Yeah. Pretty cool. And then you can take that and you can hopefully get to do more than worldbuilding and actually put pen to paper and start writing the thing. Right. But I think there's a lot of application probably going both ways.
01;36;21;10 - 01;36;41;25
Unknown
I think you could even take a setting from your novel. I'm trying to. I'm wondering if I could take the iris and make that like the setting for, the five campaign. Or I can do this and yes, so on on that. Funny that. No, actually, funnily enough, my, fantasy series, The Toronto Mysteries is the main campaign setting for the, RPG that I'm creating.
01;36;41;25 - 01;37;11;17
Unknown
Nice. So I, I wrote it first, and then again, I've played a lot of systems and some of the the flaws are almost consistent across systems. So I'm trying to find one that addresses them. It's going to have its own imperfections and its own difficulties. But yeah, that's I mean, it's a lot of, a lot of,
01;37;11;19 - 01;37;43;01
Unknown
Really good stories will work as, as systems, as worlds, as campaign worlds. So if you have good ideas, write them down. If you want to test them out, try playing Dungeons and Dragons or another roleplaying game system. See if you can tease out some some some flaws, like one of the struggles that people have is worldbuilding. Well, sometimes you can put a scenario in front of your players and ask your player, what do you see?
01;37;43;03 - 01;38;07;26
Unknown
What's this village like? Where did you grow up? And all of a sudden you're getting ideas that you might be struggling with, that your players can help you start filling in the details. Now. Again, you don't want to necessarily feel like you're plagiarizing your friends or your fellow gamers, but at the same time, if they're aware, they might even be more helpful or not.
01;38;08;00 - 01;38;28;03
Unknown
Again, sometimes you get you're going to have those players that aren't just going to be amenable to that. Just make them go. Authors like like Jessie's wife and now great are going to be on now. Great. I'm going to have two coauthors on my, Technomancer. It's great. I'll be a ghost writer. There you go.
01;38;28;06 - 01;38;58;26
Unknown
Oh, good stuff, good stuff. Yeah. Well, dear, listen, I unless we have anything else to say. Now, remember, we we're going to be at Jim State Comic-Con giving a panel. I don't know when yet. They're still working that out. They still got to get all their scheduling figured out. It's a big event. So, if you're in the Boise area and you want something to do on May 15th, 16th, and 17th, Jim State comic is a great place to go.
01;38;58;28 - 01;39;21;14
Unknown
For the writer types, we have Eagle Mountain Writers Conference in Eagle Mountain, Utah coming up, I'll be doing two classes, one on characters and one on how to stay organized as a writer. So if you struggle with that. Yeah. It's probably not even Jesse, is there? I'm sorry. Go ahead. Tell you. Go ahead.
01;39;21;14 - 01;39;43;29
Unknown
You're fine. I was just going to ask Jesse. Is there any other place where people can can hear you and more of your analysis on, on writing and craft? I will hopefully be launching my YouTube channel soon. By the time this episode is published, you will have also channel, deadline. This is what episode five, six, six, six.
01;39;44;00 - 01;39;54;28
Unknown
That's probably six. Yeah, I might be able to do that. I might be able to pull that off. What? That three, three weeks now. Three weeks. That should be three weeks.
01;39;55;00 - 01;40;23;20
Unknown
Plus, Jesse looks good on camera. He has an incentive to, to do YouTube. He's he's aged very well. Yeah, like a fine cheddar. Yeah. I. Usually you say age like a fine wine, but just his age like a fine cheese. Yep. And people that know me would agree with. Some people are into that. Yep. It's all right.
01;40;23;23 - 01;40;52;06
Unknown
Oh, I was going to say probably not even talking about, writing scripts especially. Not even too late to plug the Bear Lake Writers Conference. Yeah, this October. Yep. October 10th, I believe might be 11th, which is a lucky a lucky conference. That's where we met and our our our famous love story, started right? Yep, yep. Jesse's also going to be teaching at that one.
01;40;52;09 - 01;41;15;20
Unknown
Indie publishing, right? Yeah. I'll be doing the ins and outs of indie publishing and actually organizing, staying organized as a writer. Another one I'm going to be doing very good. Maybe I'll be teaching. Probably not at this point, but there was. I'll keep pushing. Thought about the, email tricity and, all of our listeners, please email Tracy.
01;41;15;20 - 01;41;32;13
Unknown
I won't get her email address. That'd be kind of rude. Tell her that you want me to teach you about characterization or something like. Yes, that that would be fun. And then Adam is also going to be, teaching a class. What? What were you teaching a class on? On male modeling? You know what applies to the business?
01;41;32;15 - 01;42;04;29
Unknown
Yeah, really, really important for for a very important face made for radio. Tyler. And until that conference takes place, where can people hear more about you and what's going on with you, craft wise, editor wise? I have my blog has Tyler Blogger.com. That one should be easy to remember. I do also have a YouTube channel, which I'm going to start doing more with, bookish tutoring.
01;42;05;01 - 01;42;29;06
Unknown
I've got some videos about The Hobbit up there right now. Not too much else right now. Oh, and note taking. And then I'll have more craft videos up there too. I think me and Jesse will be in competition for for your for your views and love. Yep. Are you going to choose Mommy or Daddy? Which one is it?
01;42;29;09 - 01;42;49;00
Unknown
I know, I know that say I don't want to say Dad or Grandpa. There we go. Just that way. It's obvious that a grandfather, dad or dad and the weird uncle. Yeah, yeah. No, I'd like to be the weird uncle. Actually, I guess I need to get a YouTube channel. There we go. Okay, we've got a long enough.
01;42;49;00 - 01;43;09;02
Unknown
Thank you for joining those. We love you. Thanks for being here. We will. We will respond to you. We're still so small, but we will respond to every single comment we get. Yep. On YouTube. At least. I haven't been checking Spotify or any other ones that they. I know you can leave. I actually couldn't find us on Pandora, so, really to check on that.
01;43;09;05 - 01;43;11;15
Unknown
Anyway, goodbye to Tegan.