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The biggest shifts in a business often come from decisions no one else sees.
Future Proof is a show for business owners facing the pressure to grow and the weight of legacy, often at the same time.
Hosted by Scott Eckart, each episode features honest conversations with leaders who’ve made bold moves, stepped into succession, or redefined success altogether. You’ll hear what they were up against, what they chose, and what they’d do differently now.
If you're thinking about what's next and want to build a business that lasts, this is the show for you.
Scott Eckart (00:02):
I’m Scott Eckart, and this is Future Proof, A show for building something that lasts. Let's get into it. Hello everyone. Joining us today on Future Proof, we have Ralph Balber, the owner and founder of ALO Property Group, located here at Indianapolis, Indiana. If we can change the real estate
Ralph Balber (00:21):
To change your culture, that's everything. And if you do the math, I ask 'em all the time, what does it cost to train someone? They'll say, $80,000 a year. I said, okay. How long does it take to train in two years, $160,000 to train someone and you're worried in a 4,000 square foot about paying an extra dollar a square
Scott Eckart (00:38):
Foot? Yeah,
Ralph Balber (00:39):
Which is
Scott Eckart (00:39):
Do the math,
Ralph Balber (00:40):
$4,000
Scott Eckart (00:41):
A year. Our theme for today's episode is Do what you Love. So as you hear from Ralph and me, you will learn why
Ralph Balber (00:49):
When I coach young kids or students, whether they're coming to work with us or not, the one thing I tell 'em is, you have to actually love what you do, because if you're going to spend eight, 10 hours a day, it's more hours than you're at home. I don't care how much you could make. If you're going to be miserable, you're wasting it for money and your life and you won't be good at it if you don't like it.
Scott Eckart (01:15):
Welcome to Future Proof. I am so happy to have with us today in the studio. Ralph Balber is the president and CEO of ALO Property Group here in Indianapolis, Indiana. I'm so happy to have you, Ralph.
Ralph Balber (01:27):
Thank you for having me.
Scott Eckart (01:28):
It's just an honor to spend extra time with you today. And so anytime I get to spend with you, Ralph, as a treat for me. So ALO Property Group, I just want to give a definition here. So ALO by definition means promote, nourish, sustain, strengthen, and maintain. And what they do as a property group, commercial property and property management is they strive to provide for their clients and their communities a very healthy environment in which to do their business. And so founded by Ralph and his family. So what would you add to that, Ralph?
Ralph Balber (02:02):
I would tell you that we try to do it differently than everyone else. In commercial real estate, I was always disillusioned by the lack of customer service. So when I started ALO, the whole idea was to bring a customer service element and more of a consulting element to it than what all the big firms are doing. The only reason the name ALO is what it is. It was very lucky. I was actually buying my old business and it flipped around to them buying me out and I was laying in bed and had to make a decision. So I turned around and looked at my wife and said, “Hey, find a Greek or Latin word that means something.” And ALO was the first one she saw and was perfect.
Scott Eckart (02:40):
I love it.
Ralph Balber (02:41):
Started with a name. That's exactly how it happens, A five minute decision. I said, I need a name in five minutes. I don't care what it is, and it needs to be three letters, so it's easy to say and move on.
Scott Eckart (02:50):
It's perfect. There we go. I love it. So starting in 2014, you've seen significant growth and development, also bringing in the property management. So what I love about that is that it's a left hand right hand. So not only do you get people into these, but you care a lot about after they're in there and you have the ability to make that space so great. So you help them find their home and then I say you keep it operational and keep 'em humming along, right?
Ralph Balber (03:15):
Yeah, often.
Scott Eckart (03:16):
So I want everybody to know today that our theme for today's episode is Do what You Love. So Ralph, I think a lot of people when they see someone like yourself who's very successful, I think they think, wow, everything that Ralph does just turns to gold. He never struggles. You have this amazing family. Your son, Brad is now in business with you and Jodie, your wife, he's earning his place at the table and they just think he just woke up and everything is there for him and successful and they don't know. And so we're going to peel back the curtains a little bit and we're going to get to hear your story and some major pivot points along the way and some of the things you've learned. So let's get to it. And I want to hear about Ralph, the accountant.
Ralph Balber (04:02):
Well, let me go even one step further back. So I was a fairly mediocre high school student. I always cared more about sports and playing than I did grades, and I'm from Ohio, I wanted to get into business. So I started looking at business schools and obviously ended up at IU. Absolutely had the best four years of my life. When I went there, I'll never forget, my dad told me, Hey, you got in, which was surprising. And I mean, I was a 3.0 student and he goes, you got in but don't expect to get the same grades. I don't want you to be worried about it. I know how you stress out about all those things. He goes, just go enjoy yourself and learn.
(04:40):
And I took that as a challenge. It was really the first challenge that I had. And I studied my butt off in college and I studied all day long when all my fraternity brothers were playing video games. And I went out every night, don't get me wrong, but I studied during the day and I ended up deciding to go into accounting because it was the hardest at the time degree to get. And I figured I'd get my CPA and I'd go work for a large firm for a couple of years and then go be an entrepreneur, which is what I always wanted to do. So what ended up happening was I graduated with almost a three nine because I studied so hard and I realized, you know what? I can do anything I want. So I went out and got a job with Arthur Anderson, which I hated every second of it, oh boy.
(05:27):
It was just corporate America sitting in an office doing stuff. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't learn anything. I passed CPA, I went through and I needed two years of service in the accounting to become a CPA after my name. So I waited the day I turned two years I quit. And at that point, I just wanted to start something. I was thinking of going to law school, which I applied, got into a bunch of law schools and then I just thought, God, I just finished studying for the CPA. How am I ever going to study again? I just want to go work. There was a gentleman from Toledo that had a restaurant, a fast casual restaurant, a bagel store, and this is 19 92, 93 area. There was no fast casual restaurants. It was either fast food or sit down. And he had this great operation out of Toledo, Ohio and Ann Arbor, Michigan, and he was making a fortune and he had asked me to be a CFO.
(06:18):
And so I said to him, Hey, I don't want to be a CFO of a restaurant chain, but I'll partner with you and open more. So we set up an agreement where he would help us get the funding. I was 23, 24 years old and I would run the business. So we opened our first store in Bowling Green, Ohio on campus, which was very successful. And then we opened one in Grand Rapids, Michigan. The reason Grand Rapids is I just started reading pamphlets of cities that looked like they were up and coming cities and picked Grand Rapids. I mean that random,
Scott Eckart (06:49):
That was your market research.
Ralph Balber (06:50):
That was my market. It was all me. And we went to Grand Rapids, we're very successful there in the first store. And then we needed to change because the world was changing at the time, there were no Starbucks at the time, and we were a coffee house too, so there were no Starbucks, there was no Panera Bread, Einstein Bagels, nothing like that out there.
Scott Eckart (07:07):
Well, and the fun little small world thing is that my wife is from Toledo, and they would beg their parents to stop at that bagel store on the way home from church. And that was a big deal for them because there weren't any of those other places.
Ralph Balber (07:22):
And that place was so successful and he made so much money off it. And we were doing great in Grand Rapids when we started. To this day when I meet people that are older, we shut 'em down in 99, they'll say, I used to go to your place if they're from Grand Rapids, I hear it all this after church. We always went to your place in 28 and East Paris. So I get that a lot. What they don't realize is how unsuccessful that business was. And it was a hundred percent me. I started thinking I knew more than my mentor. So I went out and he and I didn't see eye to eye. I thought we really, and we really did need to change things, which he eventually did as well. But I went out and got a loan, got an SBA loan to buy him out of the business, and I bought the rights for the name for Indiana. I figured maybe that's where my wife is from and maybe I'd come back here and for Michigan where we were, and then all my competitors, all these competitors started coming. And when they started coming, I thought, well, obviously you just open more stores and you attack 'em and you
Scott Eckart (08:23):
Bury 'em.
Ralph Balber (08:24):
And you bury 'em. And it was the dumbest thing I could have ever done. I mean, Accounting 101 would've told me not to do that. Opened more restaurants with, we had 120 plus employees, 140 employees. We did wholesale, we did all this stuff, and we were under capitalized. So we're one snow day away from not making payroll.
Scott Eckart (08:44):
So this show is partly to help other entrepreneurs as they're looking for and they're saying, Hey, I'm thinking about doing this. And hindsight's 2020, it always is. But you were 23, 24, 25. Were there some questions that you now as a seasoned entrepreneur business owner that you could have asked? Or was it just the timing of it and the fact that there were no competitors?
Ralph Balber (09:09):
It wasn't questions I needed to ask. I had the answers in my head. I just didn't use my head. I used emotion. And the reality is it was a good thing because it put me where I am today. I think if we wouldn't have gone after the competitors, I'd probably still be in that business and be much less successful, but yet have a few restaurants as opposed to we ended up with five full-size restaurants and four restaurants inside grocery stores where we were serving prepared food, which no one was doing at the time. That failed miserably too. That was before its time. Great idea today because they're all doing it. Back then it just didn't work. So yeah, the one question it all boils back to, you can't start a business unless you're properly capitalized. And we did not have enough cash to do what we needed to do.
(09:54):
So what's the first thing you do is you cut, what do you cut? Well, you cut staff now your service isn't good. Okay, you cut advertising. Well, guess what? Now you're not getting as many people in the door. So it's just running around trying to catch your tail constantly. And it was horrible. It was miserable. And I worked because of our wholesale was such a big deal to us. We delivered to, I'll give you an example. Bowling Green State University would buy 150 dozen every single day. We had Steelcase and Herman Miller and all the in Grand Rapids, all their cafeterias, all the hospitals had our product. But to do that, we manufactured six days a week, 10 hours a day, and we baked all night long every night and had four vans on the road with routes dropping everything off by 9:00 AM It got to the point where I would get called in the middle of the night two nights a week. So every time my phone would ring to this day when my phone rings at night, I have this reoccurring thought of that I have to go in and pick the
Scott Eckart (10:57):
Vehicle. You're triggered.
Ralph Balber (10:58):
Yeah, it was that bad.
Scott Eckart (10:59):
You're going to drive a van.
Ralph Balber (11:01):
And I knew it was going to fail. I knew it was failing. And the one thing, the biggest mistake I made at that point was continuing to try to keep it alive.
Scott Eckart (11:11):
So to our theme, you're definitely not loving what you do. So now let's move to this next chapter.
Ralph Balber (11:18):
So wow. There's a couple things I want to say. I remember a specific point where my son came to me, he was very young, three, four, and said, Hey, can you come out and throw the ball with me and not bring your Nextel cell phone. And it hit me that I'm paying no attention to my family. And that was important to me. Family has always been the most important thing to me. And then it was December 11th, man, I was in town for my nephew's birthday. Wow. My mother
Scott Eckart (11:46):
In Indianapolis?
Ralph Balber (11:48):
Yes. From Grand Rapids.
Scott Eckart (11:49):
Not living here.
Ralph Balber (11:50):
No, not living here. I was in for the weekend and we were celebrating his birthday and my mother-in-law was dating the owner of Sellon Trucking. It's a public company, but founded it. He passed away quite some time ago. He passed away before it went to hell. But he pulled me aside and he's a New Yorker and he's very straightforward.
Scott Eckart (12:10):
He's a truther.
Ralph Balber (12:11):
He's a truther. And he said to me, can we talk? And I didn't even know him that well at the time. I said, sure. And this was a Sunday. And he pulled me aside and he said, can I ask you a question? Why are you in the bagel business? And I just simply said, Steve, I'm just trying to keep the thing alive right now.
Scott Eckart (12:30):
Leave me alone.
Ralph Balber (12:30):
He goes, no, but tell me why you're in the business. I said, well, I have 140 employees and I have all these people that care and I this and this. He said, stop. I didn't ask what you have. I asked, why are you in the bagel business? And I said, honestly, because I can't get out and I don't know what to do. And he says, you need to get out of it and you need to get out of it now. And I'm like, how? He goes, who cares? And then he brought up this concept of time and he said, every day that goes by that you don't get out of this business is another day you're wasting because this business is never going to be successful. He said, if I was in your shoes, I would do everything I can to get out of this business immediately because it's going to fail. It's just a matter of time. And all you're doing is wasting it by sitting
Scott Eckart (13:26):
Here. So a weaker person, if someone says to you, Ralph, you'll never be successful and you will eventually fail, would take that personally, but you did not. Why?
Ralph Balber (13:37):
Because he was a hundred percent right. I was so miserable with my life.
Scott Eckart (13:42):
But that's not a knock on your character because he wasn't saying that you are a failure. He was saying he cared about you as a person.
Ralph Balber (13:52):
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Scott Eckart (13:54):
And in my estimation, in my opinion, I think that is one of the best and rarest things because I think in today's business environment, you work with a lot of young folks, and I do too. They cannot hear criticism because they think it's about them. And what we're actually doing is we believe in them. We have high belief, we see potential, but they can't hear it. They hear it as I'm criticizing you. But you didn't hear it as a knock on your character.
Ralph Balber (14:25):
I never thought of it that way.
Scott Eckart (14:26):
Right. But it was a gift. He gave you a gift
Ralph Balber (14:30):
To this day, I think of him every single day because of what he did for me.
Scott Eckart (14:35):
And then so that's pivot number one here, big time.
Ralph Balber (14:40):
Yeah. Well, let me also tell you how fast that happened because it's an interesting story. So it was December 11th. He said, what do you want to do? And I said, I don't know. I haven't thought of it. I said, yeah, I've always wanted get into real estate.
Scott Eckart (14:52):
But that's best follow up question ever. You can't say you're not going to be successful without saying, now what do you want to do? That's the mark of a true friend, right?
Ralph Balber (15:02):
Exactly.
Scott Eckart (15:02):
Yeah.
Ralph Balber (15:03):
And I just said, I really want to get into real estate. And he said, where would you want to do it? I said, well, if I get rid of these bagel businesses, I'm leaving Grand Rapids. I said, my wife's from Carmel, we've been back here. And he goes, well, would you stay an extra day? This is Sunday. Would you stay an extra day? And if I get you some interviews with some mentors? And I said, absolutely. And he set up with some of the top names of CEOs, real estate and non-real estate, and I met all of 'em in a two day span. I got a commission only job offer from a large real estate firm that I took, went back to Grand Rapids. I looked at my wife and in India and I said, Hey, you want to move to Indianapolis? She goes, this had never been discussed before.
(15:51):
She goes, what? And I told her, I'm done. I am done with the bagel business. I was talking to Steve and I'm done. And she goes, yeah. I said, okay. And I literally went back, called the bank, found out everything I owed, and the bank gave me a number. I called my biggest competitor who I have always been friends with competitors. I'm a huge believer in that. I called him and said, Hey, you want to buy everything? Here's my number. I said, it's not a negotiation. You can have everything for it. And he took it. And I was in Indianapolis January 15th working
Scott Eckart (16:26):
From December 11th, January 15th. Yeah. Back to my original point, when people look at successful entrepreneurs, so it would be safe to say you did not have your ducks in a row. You didn't have full safety net. You had just sold the business. You're in Indianapolis 30 days. Do you have a game plan, do you not? How did that feel? Do you recommend that? I mean, here people are listening, Ralph. Okay, what are you telling him?
Ralph Balber (16:54):
Well, let's take it even a step further. So the last payroll I had to put on my credit card to pay it. So I had a negative $60,000 when I moved here, a U-Haul that I moved everything myself, two kids, a wife. I couldn't rent an apartment. So my mother-in-law and Steve rented me an apartment. They didn't want us living with them, and I'm working, they gave me a draw at this place. So I had enough money to pay my mortgage. I sell at a house, a lot that I was thinking of building on in Michigan and two car payments. That was enough to cover that. And now I have no money coming in. And not one time was I worried about it because I knew what I had built in the bagel industry, which was a terrible industry to be in. And at that point I had known that where I made my mistakes. The biggest problem with any business in my opinion, is your employees and your staff, they're only as good as they are. And you can train, you can teach, you can push, you can hire the right people, but they're never you. And they're never owners. Well, unless they are owners, but they never care as much as you will care, as much as I will care the
Scott Eckart (18:09):
Mindset, mindset.
Ralph Balber (18:11):
Every now and then you see someone, but it's very rare I'm in a business on my own that all I have to do is rely on myself and I know that I have the discipline and I'll work 24 hours a day if I have to. If you talk to the brokers that I went to work with right after that, they'll all say, Hey, might not be the smartest guy in the world, but he works harder than anyone. Well, yeah. I just worked relentless. And I got to tell you, the amount of hours I was working was a third of what I was working in the restaurant business. And I took every meeting and I met people and I worked relentlessly. And I got to stop here and say that my wife got her real estate license. Her dad was a home builder who had passed away, and that's why her mom was dating Steve. And her brother was a home builder. And so she figured her family's in the real estate business, she'll gets a real estate license, she get a couple listings, and she essentially supported us that first year. So now I made some money, but I was just paying her old bills with what I made.
Scott Eckart (19:10):
So speaking of Jodie, I learned a new term here recently. You know, you have entrepreneur, but copreneur. And Jodie's a CPR. She still is to this day.
Ralph Balber (19:19):
Absolutely. And you know what? So is my mom. So is my son
Scott Eckart (19:24):
Leslie. She's the best.
Ralph Balber (19:25):
My mom is, she hates when I say this, but let's just say I'm 56 and she's my mom and she still works today, full time.
Scott Eckart (19:35):
She does. I love going in to see her. I know, smile on her face.
Ralph Balber (19:39):
And you know what? It's the glue that holds our office together.
Scott Eckart (19:43):
So you're here in Indy now, you're not 30 days in, but let's call it six months in. Are you loving what you do now? When did that start to come to the forefront?
Ralph Balber (19:53):
As I was driving, I'll tell you, I was so miserable. The pivotal point in my life was Jodie was at one of the restaurants and she would eat there every day for lunch with all of her friends, all these friends. And keep in mind, in Grand Rapids, we knew a lot of people because we had five restaurants, so I couldn't go out. Every time I went out at night, people would come up to me to the table and say, Hey, I eat your restaurant. You get all the negatives. So you couldn't get away from it.
(20:19):
I would never eat in our restaurants. The last thing I would ever do would be sitting there. If I'm off, I'm out. I can't stand. Someone's doing something wrong One day. It was just really a tough day, and I knew we might have a snow day tomorrow, and I'm like, if we have a snow day, it's not like something's going to eat lunch twice the next day. So I'm really getting worried about it. I came home, I laid on my couch and I cried, and I'm a 23, 20 4-year-old man crying. My wife's at the, and then I remember sitting up think, all right, now let's get at it. So driving into Indy without even starting a job, without a dime in my pocket, when I saw Indianapolis sign, it reminded me of coming to Bloomington back in college days,
Scott Eckart (21:03):
Full circle moment.
Ralph Balber (21:05):
It was. And I literally got tears in my eyes.
Ralph Balber (21:08):
And from that moment on, I've decided that I'm only doing things that make me happy
Scott Eckart (21:12):
And that you love what you do.
Ralph Balber (21:14):
When I coach young kids or students, whether they're coming to work with us or not, the one thing I tell 'em is, you have to actually love what you do. Because if you're going to spend eight, 10 hours a day, it's more hours than you're at home. I don't care how much you could make if you're going to be miserable, you're wasting it for money and your life and you won't be good at it if you don't like it.
Scott Eckart (21:36):
That's true. Wow.
Ralph Balber (21:37):
So that's a huge point,
Scott Eckart (21:39):
And I hope people can really take that to heart. It's not easy to walk away from things that versus something that you don't and the hope and promise of a future. When you came here though, you picked a collaborator. How do you know who to work with when you're kicking the tires? What kind of things do you look for? Because I know I've had some bad experiences. I've been through one business divorce. I mean, it's painful. How do you select?
Ralph Balber (22:06):
That is a hard thing. I'm a little different than most. I get a feeling and I'll know right away, always have. I don't know why. I just have instinct that this is the people I want to work with. And I'll tell you right now, the group that I work with, this is the exact group I should have been. It's exactly what I needed. It was perfect. I didn't like the way they did things, but that's the way everyone did things. And then there was a couple disputes on commissions, which I had never ever had to deal with where we had things written down and they were changed. And I said, well, you can't. I mean, that's why we make a deal. I mean, come to me and discuss it, but I don't care if I'm a W2 employee or I'm a 10 99 employee. If you write me down that I'm going to be paid this on this, and then you come to me and change it, it's unacceptable. And the response was, well, we can agree to disagree, but I own this company and this is the way it's going to be.
Scott Eckart (22:55):
And at what point do you have to part ways
Ralph Balber (22:58):
Then.
Scott Eckart (22:59):
Yeah?
Ralph Balber (22:59):
Right then.
Scott Eckart (23:00):
Okay,
Ralph Balber (23:00):
I said, fine. I'm gone. I had a gentleman that I had brought into the business with me that was on his own, came in and he had just left. So we started a real estate company together and worked our butts off to grow. That hindsight, another great experience. It ended up, we split up. I sold it to him, made money selling it to him, and we went and we're still friends to this day, but we became kind of what I didn't like once we affiliated with the large firm.
Scott Eckart (23:33):
So someone told me, actually more than one occasion, different people that I trust too easily, and that kind of stopped me cold in my tracks. I thought, I don't know any other way to do it, because if you become cynical, then you can't do anything. And so you do have to trust, but I guess it's trust but verify, right? I mean, would you agree with that or
Ralph Balber (23:54):
Well, I could tell you I'm a trust guy like yourself, and I've been burnt a hundred a thousand times.
(24:02):
The best way to solve that in my opinion, is to bring someone in to handle those things because you're not good at it. Look, you can't be great at everything. I'm a softie, so I trust, and then when someone does me wrong, I generally give in when I should't. And so recently I was told that and I brought someone in, I brought Laura in who is running the business now and doing all that, and it's awesome. It's the greatest thing that's ever happened to me because when someone asks me something, I ask Laura, it's her decision, not mine.
Scott Eckart (24:37):
That's very helpful. So pivot number two, this is a biggie. Do you open your own firm?
Ralph Balber (24:43):
So I'll tell you what happened. We started getting into some disagreements with the other firm, and I wouldn't even really say disagreements, just disagreements on the way to run things between this. We had affiliated with the national firm and it became about the dollar like it always does. And I really, really felt that real estate needed a new lease on life.
Scott Eckart (25:02):
No pun intended.
Ralph Balber (25:02):
No pun intended term I use all the time. I looked at this and said, Hey, we go in and this is generally what we would do as a new broker, and this is what I did to get started. You look at real estate and I'd look up all these databases, find out when your lease is up. I'd say nine months before your lease is up, I'd start dialing. Hey, hey Scott, I want to talk to you about your lease. I want to talk to you how I can help save you money. I know that building better than anyone else. I started thinking, that's really stupid way of doing it. Why is Scott going to trust me versus anyone else in the business? And he has a relationship with someone and that's who he's going to use. So that was one. The other thing that bothered me was how am I really helping someone if I'm finding a space?
(25:49):
Our business is office retail, industrial development management. We do all of it. I personally work on investments and I work on office. An office is a commodity, whether you're in this building or that building, most people think and they're next door and they're similar type buildings, and that one's $21 a square foot, and this is $25 a square foot. Well, I'll take the $21 square foot and all the brokers would do that and then pin 'em against each other and come up with some sort of leverage to get your lease rate down, which is great, but really is it? You don't know anything about the company. You don't know anything about the people that you're working for. All you know, you just called them and they hired you. So what I thought you needed to do is I'd rather get to know someone five years before their lease is up. Now we get paid when a transaction happens. So this is a lifer type business in my opinion. So I meet with everybody anytime, any place I can get in and I meet with them and then I regularly call 'em over and over again just for lunch,
Scott Eckart (26:48):
Go grab a drink. And I know that's true because the people that I know work with you say that check and it's beautiful.
Ralph Balber (26:57):
I check that. So then from there, if you look at a company, a tech company, I use this example all the time, and I go in, I say beat 'em two years before their leases, three years before their leases up. I say, what's your biggest problem? Well, we can't get staff. Okay, why? I don't know. We pay the same as well, who are your competitors? And then I start looking at their business because I have a CPA, I have a business background, I lost a business. So I'm very familiar with business issues and I've taught this to all of our staff, which I'll talk about in a second. So what we do is we go in and we say, Hey, tell me about your business. What are your problems and why? And they say, well, I can't get staff. Okay, why? They come and then they end up going to my competitor. Do you pay the same? Yes. Do you have the same benefits? Yes. Where are they located? Well, they're in downtown or they're downtown Carmel. Where are you located? They're on a random street with a random building where they have to drive to. They park, they go in, they leave. It's just a general, the old law firm CPA esque office.
(28:04):
Well, you go into the other groups and their office has game tables and there's collaborative space and there's open space and…
Scott Eckart (28:11):
And walkability to bars, restaurants…
Ralph Balber (28:14):
After work, they all go up and get. So the entire culture of their business is not stuffy. Your business is stuffy. It's not real estate. If we can change the real estate to change your culture, that's everything. And if you do the math, I ask 'em all the time, what does it cost to train someone? They'll say, $80,000 a year. I said, okay, how long does it take to train 'em? Two years. You're like, oh, $160,000 to train someone. And you're worried in a 4,000 square foot about paying an extra dollar a square foot, which is $4,000 a year.
Scott Eckart (28:47):
Do the math.
Ralph Balber (28:49):
It's ridiculous. So that is what we try to do is know our customers, know the client, and then change it. There's a very big negative to that, and that is you have to have enough balls in the air because if you're starting five, 10 years out on someone, you're doing free work. I check everything. I'm constantly talking and meeting with them, helping them even with their real estate, even though I've never been paid.
Scott Eckart (29:15):
It's the long view.
Ralph Balber (29:16):
For sure. It's the long view. And that to me is the way this business needs to be run.
Scott Eckart (29:19):
Yeah. Maybe the L in ALO stands for "long view".
Ralph Balber (29:23):
So anyways, that's what we do differently and that's why we've been successful.
Scott Eckart (29:27):
So Ralph, one of my favorite quotes is from Reid Hoffman, co-founder of LinkedIn, and he said famously, define entrepreneurs as people who jump off a cliff with an airplane kit and then try to build it on the way down so they don't crash. So do you recommend jumping off the cliff? I mean, I got pushed off the cliff, but sometimes it takes somebody pushing you off because I don't know that I would've had the courage to do it like you did. I think you had the courage that I lacked.
Ralph Balber (29:54):
I don't know if it's courage. It's that gut instinct again. And even though I asked my wife, I never doubt myself being successful sometimes to a fault. I know this is a fact. You can mark this down. No one works for their clients harder than I do, period. That's my style. I tell the world this right now. I have OCD, I've had it since I was a kid. I had it debilitating as a kid. I've turned it into a superpower, went to a doctor, got medicated, and it took the bite off. But more than anything, it's given me that drive to be successful.
Scott Eckart (30:30):
People listening right now are, some of them are thinking, I really want out. I don't like what I'm doing, and I need somebody to either tap me on the shoulder, push me, do something. And so what's your advice to them real quick?
Ralph Balber (30:44):
Well, you and I talked about this. We have the same feeling, and I use this for a lot of things, but I tell everybody this in our office, and that's called time. And this, this is a Steve Russell as well. A lot of people know Steve, and Steve was a character, but he told me, take a hundred bucks from someone. That guy can always make a hundred or gal can always make a hundred bucks back. If you take someone's time, it's gone. And it'll never ever get it back. We all have a finite, we don't know what it is. We have a finite amount of time, period. So therefore I tell every staff member, you cannot be late to meetings, period. Cannot be late. First of all, it's rude, but it's stealing. You're stealing. If you're 10 minutes late, you're stealing 10 minutes of whoever's waiting for you's time, whether it's a customer or a service person, anybody.
Scott Eckart (31:34):
That's right.
Ralph Balber (31:34):
And they'll never get it back. And you don't have the right to do that.
Scott Eckart (31:37):
That's right. And it's our only non-renewable resource
Ralph Balber (31:41):
Period. That's it.
Scott Eckart (31:42):
It's gone. We only get so many trips around the sun.
Ralph Balber (31:45):
You know what hit me? It was the restaurant, the story of if it snows, no one comes back the next day for two lunches. Time is the most, and I want to bring something up that I'm guessing you'll mention later, but community is very important. First thing I did when I got to Indianapolis was I joined a board because I wanted to meet people and I wanted to help out. I have been on probably five boards since I've been here. Right now I'm the chair of Damar. I've been on Damar since 2000 and maybe 14 or 15. And I've been the chair for six years. So I spend a lot of time with Damar. And you know what? It's the most rewarding thing in the world. I love going there. I love seeing the kids. I mean, the business has grown. We're a totally different company than when we started, but I try to get all my staff to give back too. And what I tell 'em is, and the same thing I told Damar when I started, I didn't have much money. I was on the Children's Bureau first and on the Children's Bureau, they wanted like a thousand dollars or I can't remember what it was from remember, I'm like, how am I going to come up with a thousand dollars to do this?
Scott Eckart (32:51):
Sell a kidney or something, right?
Ralph Balber (32:54):
And it made me think a little bit that is important as funding is for that. It's really not the most important thing, but the most important thing is time. I can always make that thousand dollars, but if I give you an hour of my time, I'm giving it away and it's not coming back,
Scott Eckart (33:09):
Right?
Ralph Balber (33:10):
So to me, we tell our staff, if you want to do something for community, it doesn't have to be money. If you don't have it, give some of your time. Don't play pickleball tonight and go to a board meeting or whatever. It's so important for community, it's so important for the causes. And more importantly, it makes you a better person. And it's great for business.
Scott Eckart (33:31):
And I always tell some of the young folks that I mentor is that the poorest person in the world and the richest have one thing in common, and that is their number of days that they have. I mean, I can pay somebody to rake my yard or do whatever, but I cannot get more time than I have and and it's the greatest gift.
Ralph Balber (33:51):
Take that all the way back to the enjoying what you do all day, every day. Why are you going to sit at a desk as a CPA with a white shirt, wasn't allowed to wear blue shirts, a tie, be miserable, add on a calculator, a spreadsheet all day long?I mean, it's horrible.
Scott Eckart (34:08):
That's right.
Ralph Balber (34:08):
So you have to enjoy it. You have to like what you do.
Scott Eckart (34:11):
You do. Yeah. So pivot number three, young man named Brad Balber left his corporate job Chicago exciting and is now working in the family business. What's that?
Ralph Balber (34:22):
I am going to kid-brag a little. I have two kids. I don't want to leave my daughter Dylan out. I love her to death. My son didn't want to work for me. He's very independent. He's very much like me, but he wanted whatever the best job was, just like I did when he was leaving, he decided that he was going to go for the job that no one could get, which was WeWork. And at the time, WeWork was estimated to be a 48 billion company.
Scott Eckart (34:46):
It was a juggernaut. It was the place to be. It was the center of the universe.
Ralph Balber (34:50):
It was. And they took 22 kids of thousands that were interviewed, and they interviewed him in the top business schools around. So they took, I dunno, the top 15 business schools in the country. So there was Cornell people, there was IU people, there was just maybe Wisconsin, I don't remember. But there were different school kids. He was one of the 20 chosen. I'm very proud of him for that. And then he went to Chicago, and then the business obviously went straight downhill. And then when SoftBank came in, the CFO happened to be out of Chicago. So he was side by side with the CFO in a coworking space, WeWork. And he just rode for five years and they loved him there. And as everyone else kept getting fired, he wasn't. And in typical fashion, I kept trying to bring him come back. He just had no desire. He loved his life in Chicago. And finally he said, look, I know this is going downhill. We work. And he said, just tell me when it's time to raise my hand because I have a job and I'd rather me leave than someone who doesn't have a job.
(35:54):
That's my son,
Scott Eckart (35:55):
That's noble.
Ralph Balber (35:56):
And they said, raise your hand. So he raised his hand, they gave him an incredible severance package. He came back and it was probably the third greatest day of my life.
Scott Eckart (36:05):
So what advice do you have for dad's, moms, those that are thinking about bringing kids into the business, what should they be thinking about Ralph?
Ralph Balber (36:13):
The first thing is not all kids should be brought into your business. Okay.
Scott Eckart (36:19):
So don't do it to be nice
Ralph Balber (36:20):
Or just
Scott Eckart (36:21):
Absolutely. Or because your name's the same as the one over the
Ralph Balber (36:24):
Door. No, no. And my kids, they grew up in Carmel. I mean, they were so young when we moved here, when they were born in Grand Rapids. But they worked. My whole philosophy has always been with them, look, you need to work. You need to learn how to work. College is great. At that point, I realized that even though I got great grades in college, it got me a great job. But really did I learn anything? Probably not. I learned how to be an adult. I learned what it took to study what it took to be independent and how to deal with situations on your own. And I think that's very important. I think college is so important for kids for that reason. And that's a little controversial in my family because some of 'em like, well, education is so important. And I'm like, I learned more in the first month working in a bagel store than I did in college. But when he and I are best friends, so it's a little different. He just got married and he asked me to be his best man, if that is any indication. And he has so many friends. So bringing him in is unique in that it's a natural fit.
Scott Eckart (37:29):
I don't, but sending him away, I know I've been asked this question and I do agree with sending them
Ralph Balber (37:36):
Away. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I missed that.
Scott Eckart (37:38):
Yeah,
Ralph Balber (37:39):
Totally. I wouldn't have let him come day one.
Scott Eckart (37:41):
Okay.
Ralph Balber (37:42):
He needed to go out and learn because we run a really interesting office. Very, very, if it was your first job, if you came to out and said, Hey, I want to work here. And it's your first job ever. You will never be able to work anywhere else because it's so unique. Because we call it a family. I never said, you can't call it a family. Of course I can call it a family. I own it,
Scott Eckart (38:04):
Right? Call whatever I want.
Ralph Balber (38:06):
And we are a family. I mean, we literally have a deep text message with everyone in the entire office that is jokes back and forth. It's all family stuff. Hey, so happy birthday. And I can't even keep up with them. I'll have like 35 texts when I get home at night. But the point is, if he were to see that first before he saw what the real world is, I think it would be a negative for him. And I think for anyone your kid needs to, it's like when I used to coach him, he didn't listen to anything I ever said. So I stopped coaching. He needs someone else. You have to be a father at some points
(38:43):
And at other points, you need to be a mentor. And at other points, you just need to be a comrad or a friend. And so he was always that way. So it's a little different for me, I think, because I know I would've never let him come right away. He needed to go out and see the world and learn and et cetera. But I still see some of these. I have friends that are very successful that have brought their kids into the business and their kids never worked. Their kids grew up with daddy and mommy taking care of everything.
Scott Eckart (39:14):
Oh, I see that a lot.
Ralph Balber (39:15):
I have a lot that have worked for me over the years. And they come in and I give 'em a save a speech. I give everyone, and then they sit there and do nothing all day long and they cannot make it.
Ralph Balber (39:27):
And I tell 'em again, you're not doing it.
Ralph Balber (39:29):
You will not be successful. Here are the steps. If you do A, B, C, I promise you you'll make more money than you could ever imagine. And if you do it long enough, if you do A, B, C, D, you'll make more money than you ever deserve to make.
Scott Eckart (39:42):
Now, if Brad weren't as hard a worker as I know he is or had the acumen, he would not be in that position.
Ralph Balber (39:49):
There's no question.
Scott Eckart (39:50):
Right.
Ralph Balber (39:51):
And keep in mind, he's also running a different part of our business, which was important to me because I have a whole lot of people that rely on me, and if I brought him in ahead of them, it would not be a good thing. So he's running a whole separate division that we started, and he really wants to have nothing to do with the brokerage. It's nepotism, but not in the sense that he's the ultimate. He's going to take over all your business. That's why I'm using you to help us with our succession plan, because I don't know how to do it. You have the experience and you ask the right questions. So I don't know. I know that I promised my staff, I won't sell the business to any people and I won't because I said that. So I would like them all to take it over. They don't want to buy it. So how do you do that? And that's why there are people out there like yourself that can help me do that.
Scott Eckart (40:47):
Well, and I think one piece of advice that you're giving is that you have been, and I've seen it very respectful to those who have worked very hard for you, allowing them to thrive as well in the fact that there are family members there and you have not undone that when you brought him in.
Ralph Balber (41:04):
Thank you.
Scott Eckart (41:05):
Very wise.
Ralph Balber (41:06):
Very important to me.
Scott Eckart (41:06):
Very strong.
Ralph Balber (41:07):
And it goes back to that family. I care about every one of them.
Scott Eckart (41:11):
And they know that. And I walk around there and after I check in with Mama Balber, as I call it, and get my hug from her, which is pretty awesome. I want to also talk about mentors. And when I have guess in a big theme has been people who I've helped them, but I also happen to know that you are a mentor as well. Not just in the business, but people that come to you. I also happen to know that anybody who wants time with Ralph gets it. And tell me a little bit about people that have meant something to you and some of the advice that you give folks that come to you.
Ralph Balber (41:46):
I get all sorts. I get the OCDs, which I think I help a lot. And then I also have a lot of friends that are going through the exact situation that you just mentioned. They're in a business and their son or daughter are coming up, how do I do it? Will you talk with them? Or they don't want to go to college? What do you think about college? And I've sat with countless undergrads and given them just my feeling on life. I talk about time. The other thing we talk about is loving what you do. That's so important to me. And I talk about giving back. So those are the three, and I know those are what we talk about here, but those are the three things I talk about when I'm mentoring all the time. Then the next thing, if it's an older person or coming to look to work for me, I make it very clear that it's a tough business and it takes a certain person to be successful in the business that I'm in.
(42:42):
You have to have it. There's certain skills that I don't think you can learn in this business, which is unique. And that's because you have to prospect all day, all night, every day, every night period, everything you do is prospecting, which means when you go out at night, you're prospecting. If you're at a rock lobster and you're being an idiot, your character is going to hurt you in the future. I've met more of my clients from sitting at a bar than anywhere because I go sit at nice bars and it turns into business. So when I mentor 'em, that's one thing. If you can do this, and I always go back to that Wolf of Wall Street, it's so true to me. If you can walk, I'll point out someone sitting at wherever we are. Could you walk up to that female or male, whoever it is, and start talking to him? That guy over there, go tell me what he does for a living.
Ralph Balber (43:39):
If they can't get up and do that, my guess is they will not be
Scott Eckart (43:43):
Successful. Interesting.
Ralph Balber (43:44):
And I don't make 'em do it, but what I ask them is, I'm not here to test that. You need to think about that yourself.
(43:51):
And if you have reservations or think you can't do that, don't get in this business because you will not be able to do it. And if you can't do it, you're going to waste two years of your life making no money. It takes so long before you get going. Don't waste your time whether you work for me or a big firm or whatever, even if you're in a role where they're paying you as an analyst, and then you get to be a broker. If you can't do that, if that's not something you're comfortable doing or you can't, I don't think you can. But if you can't teach yourself to do that, it's the wrong business.
Scott Eckart (44:22):
Last question. My belief is the future is bright. What are you most excited about as you look down the road?
Ralph Balber (44:28):
I'm excited about to see what, I don't think I'll ever retire.
Scott Eckart (44:32):
Okay. Me neither. But
Ralph Balber (44:33):
Yeah, I don't want to have to work. But I also don't think I'll ever retire. I'm excited to see what happens in our industry. There's a lot of changing right now. There's a lot of laws changing, specifically on the residential side, which we really avoid other than my wife. So it'll be really interesting to see if the value play takes off. It's taken off for us. It's grown us, it's made us larger, and we're under the radar. But we've done many of the biggest name deals in town. We just don't talk about 'em. And I know they're catching on. The question is, will the competitors figure it out or will they suffer from it because they'll lose to local shops if they're not careful. And so what am I excited? I'm excited to see what my team does when I step back a little bit and see how they run it.
Scott Eckart (45:21):
They're a great team. They're going to do it. So Ralph, thank you so much for spending time with me today. I appreciate it.
Ralph Balber (45:28):
You've done a lot for me, so.
Scott Eckart (45:29):
Learned a lot. I always do. Hanging out with you.
Ralph Balber (45:32):
Thank you. Thank
Scott Eckart (45:32):
You. My conversation with Ralph is really what this show is all about. The moments, the mindset, and the actions that it takes to keep things moving forward. Here are three things that really stood out for my conversation with Ralph. Do what you love. Life is too short to be miserable. Number two, time is your only non-renewable resource. Once it's spent, you can't get it back. And number three, if you want to be a leader, live a life of service. It's been said. If serving is beneath you, then leadership is beyond you. Head to the show notes of this episode to find any links to connect with Ralph or to learn more about elo. The future is bright. I'll see you next time.
Scott Eckart (46:22):
Thank you for listening today. If you like what you've heard, please join us in the Velocity Network and sign up at www.velocoaches.com, which is a gathering of entrepreneurs, business owners, and people who desire to learn more about running and owning a business. Also, you can subscribe to Future Proof on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.