Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Dear Writer, giving and receiving feedback can be hard. Haven't you ever wished you could watch someone else's writing group to see how they do it?
This podcast is focused on just such a writing group. Join authors JC Bybee, Grey Alder, and Tyler Hess as they razz and encourage each other, talk about every writing topic under the sun, and exemplify the subtle art of helping other writers write better.
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;24;22
Unknown
That needs to be on every single browser that needs to be added. I'm a writer is setting that right? It's okay. Yeah. It doesn't it doesn't get alerted. Yeah. They just get another another notification like okay Tyler has is added again. Just add another note to the list. Yeah. You'd be an interesting serial killer. Tyler. I'd be a really good story.
00;00;24;22 - 00;00;45;27
Unknown
Okay, let's do it. I don't tell you that.
00;00;46;00 - 00;01;12;25
Unknown
Welcome, dear listener, to third person POV. Oh, writing group. Thanks for thanks for tuning in, guys. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Here in this podcast we are. Well, obviously we're a writer group where you critique each other's works. We talk about, different topics when it comes to writing. We have a good time. We go off on rabbit trails, we have all the tangents in the world, and hopefully we don't come off as super crazy.
00;01;12;25 - 00;01;37;02
Unknown
So welcome. I'm Tyler, I'm Jake, and I'm gray. Very good. We should probably have in order that we introduce each other. So, so we don't, talk over each other's something. Yeah, yeah. I was, like, politely waiting for Jesse to go next. But I respect your elders. It worked out. It worked out well. Yes, I very much so are elder Jake.
00;01;37;05 - 00;02;00;18
Unknown
Okay. Let's. So we just get straight into it, though. Yeah, yeah, let's do it. Okay. Cue future gray. Welcome word processors. It's future gray. Let's dive into the recap for what will surely be a crazy chapter. So in my current draft, this is chapter ten of my debut noble dark fantasy novel, which I'm currently calling Route Memory.
00;02;00;21 - 00;02;21;00
Unknown
But you know how permanent working titles can be. So this section continues the scene from last week picking up in the mental arena known as the Liminal space. Our protagonist, Nin, and his other persona stills can both take physical shape here concurrently, and they're left to square off against their would be mentor. The vastly powerful Atrium Kent.
00;02;21;02 - 00;02;41;21
Unknown
Now atrium has just gone, undergone a monstrous transformation and proceeds to mop the floor with our heroes. The rest of the action spills out of this action sequence. Now let's listen to as Tyler and Jesse Savage, my humble offering, bubble up. Awesome. And then, Jesse, do you want to go first or do amigo first? Yeah, I'll eat it off.
00;02;41;29 - 00;03;19;15
Unknown
Cool. All right, so this week we get a continuation of the mental fight that. See, I didn't really have anything, at first, like, you kept me, reading in, like I picked up right where we are last time. So, as I remember, despite the gap, I remembered where we were because I guess that's a good thing. Also, commenting on last week's because it left such an impression on me that when I started reading this, I wasn't like, wait, I need to go back and check this.
00;03;19;15 - 00;03;48;08
Unknown
It was, I know where we were. I remember what's happening and I was able to go right in. And this initial opening just at, lead into what was happening, I want to I want to say, I think, and this is up to you, but I think you could make atrium a little bit more sinister and maybe a little bit more sadistic in this section.
00;03;48;10 - 00;04;19;12
Unknown
Just a little bit like he comes off pretty, pretty unhinged. But I think you could just take it one step further without overdoing it. Just just to really kind of emphasize, I think what you're hinting at, what you're, well, what you're all but expressly said happened to him and is happening to him. I like that you keep he keeps using the brother.
00;04;19;15 - 00;04;44;14
Unknown
The familiar. Yeah, the familiar term. And I'm trying to. I'm trying to figure out. Are you are you actually making them familiar? Are they actual brothers, or is this a figurative thing that he's using either against them or for them or whatever? Because and I don't know if this is going to sneak its way into your, context.
00;04;44;16 - 00;05;19;15
Unknown
Great. But maybe just in case we should say that this is talking about neon and stills, who are different personas in the same body. Yes, yes, yes. Know, because one of the things about stills and at first is you think that's that he he is the person, he is the body. But as you've been writing it and as you've introduced neon, it's like, well, is he is still the original personality or has stills overwritten the original personality.
00;05;19;15 - 00;05;40;29
Unknown
And now we have neon coming in and sort of overwriting stills, but at the same time not. And that's why we get this familial relationship. Or was he in the original body and he's suddenly trying to come back like you've left a lot of it ambiguous, which is not a bad thing at this point. Let me, let me.
00;05;40;29 - 00;06;13;05
Unknown
I'm throwing that out there. That's not bad. The ambiguity is good as long as you have an answer and you know, as long as you know it's fine. At this point especially, it's fine to keep things confusing. Let's see here. I'm still I'm still and I didn't mentioned this last time, and I should have I'm still a little on the fence about using the jack o lantern term because it works.
00;06;13;05 - 00;06;37;24
Unknown
It fits. It helps us picture exactly what you're after. But I'm trying. Like, is that too much of a our world and a cross term? Yes. More than more than it should be. And if you want to throw in a celebration where they make jack o lanterns and explain why they're great, go for it. It works. Like, again, it gives a good imagery.
00;06;37;24 - 00;07;06;24
Unknown
I'm just I want to make sure it fits, that it's not going to kick the reader out to that. So I think it was interesting that you had stills, admit that he was ignorant about what's happening with atrium a little bit. He's he's sort of in this position where he realizes I'm the brute. Neon is the brain's kind of,
00;07;06;27 - 00;07;29;01
Unknown
And you can feel a little bit of that resentment as you go forward in the scene. 98 More Grapes to Pop was probably one of the best ways to end that. That section was stills, an atrium that was like that. Yeah. Beautifully done.
00;07;29;03 - 00;07;50;05
Unknown
And then we switch to neon and it's like, okay, he we get this. Yeah. Neon is the brains. He, he know, like he's got that intellectual side a little bit more than stills does. And they're their conversation, their banter back and forth. They like how they interact. I like the line he had not been written for sympathy.
00;07;50;07 - 00;08;18;01
Unknown
I really like that line. Yeah. Which again, it asks more questions. It's like, okay, he's been written one way. Can he overwrite, can modify, can he modify his programing, as it were? I don't like the use of the word nutjob. That feels like anachronism. So I gave you some suggestions on that one. I like that that stills bullies him a little bit with the night vision.
00;08;18;03 - 00;08;49;11
Unknown
He's like, I've got a I, I don't I've got to show you how it works. I'm not going to show you how it works. I'm going to turn it on, blind you for a little bit and turn it off just because I can, and it's interesting to me the difference in the way atrium treats stills versus how he treats me in and and again, and it builds into that concept of the master apprentice relationship, competing apprentices.
00;08;49;13 - 00;09;11;08
Unknown
And it it leaves his end game up it up in the air. We don't know what atrium is really after. He's never expressly said, this is my master plan, you know. And when he he gives stills this information, he treats it in this way like he kicked me and out completely. He's gone out of the, the, the mental scape.
00;09;11;10 - 00;09;39;20
Unknown
And then he beats up on stills, and yet stills is still there to give it. Yeah. It's you've left a lot of ambiguity in a good way with atrium. He comes across as that sinister presence that has a lot more going on than we're aware of. Let's see here.
00;09;39;23 - 00;10;13;03
Unknown
Show. I don't really have any, like, any direct critiques. It it flowed fairly well for me. I liked how you rounded it off. You want us? You left me to a point where I want to. Okay. What's the next chapter? You didn't quite give me enough. I need to read the next chapter. So, Yeah. Are there spots you could probably tighten things up or maybe expand a little bit.
00;10;13;05 - 00;10;36;26
Unknown
I mean, maybe nothing jumped out like I didn't ever. Except for the couple of spots where I notice a potential anachronisms. It's like, yeah, it's it works. It keep going. And I mean, it's a great story. I really want to know where this is going. I really want to know what the end game is for atrium, because like I said, we still don't know.
00;10;37;01 - 00;11;04;13
Unknown
And I still want to know. He's an interesting enough character. He's an interesting enough overarching account, apparent villain that, you know, it keeps like it keeps me wanting more. Tyler, what do you think? Yeah. So today, as I read you guys this stuff, I kind of had my editor's hat on more so than I usually do. And I kind of ripped both of you as part of my, budget for that.
00;11;04;15 - 00;11;21;09
Unknown
I should have as I, you know, I to make the make an effort to to have comments because sometimes I'm just focusing on the facts. I'm like, oh, I'm going to make these guys better. I'm going to help them. But then there's also the other side. We've talked about that where you should, you know, consider criticisms and good stuff.
00;11;21;12 - 00;11;41;22
Unknown
So I will start with the positives. I love that, the cliffhanger you left us on. I'm really interested because I kind of suspected that something was off with the two, tribes of people, and I didn't know what. And it feels like we're going to learn a little bit more about what's going on there, so I'm excited for that.
00;11;41;24 - 00;12;01;12
Unknown
As always, I love this interaction, this interplay between the personas. I think it's really interesting how like, Jesse, you're talking about how they're brothers, but they didn't act like brothers initially. Now I feel like they're kind of acting a little bit more like brothers in that they're helping each other or still is at least is helping me.
00;12;01;12 - 00;12;11;27
Unknown
And but not being particularly nice about it, which is, pretty good. I really like that. It's very accurate.
00;12;12;00 - 00;12;35;07
Unknown
My biggest gripes with this is, and I'm sure you disagree with Jesse a little bit here is atriums ambiguity with when it comes to his motivation. I want like it's fine not to know exactly what he's up to, but I want it to have at least an idea. And I want stills in neon to at least be talking with each other, or thinking to themselves and trying to figure out what the atrium is doing.
00;12;35;07 - 00;12;54;15
Unknown
Because up to this point, it's felt kind of random, like what he's doing. I it's not clear what his end goal is like. I have I have the theory and again, don't don't don't blink or anything. So you don't confirm anything. But where he's trying to get them to a certain point so that he can then kill them and take over their body and be more powerful than before.
00;12;54;17 - 00;13;21;11
Unknown
That's something we've seen in other stories that, escape my mind right now. But that's kind of my working theory. But there's been nothing to support that. It just feels like he randomly tortures them. He sometimes throws them a bone and then. But he still is like threatening to kill them and saying basically that he's letting them live for now, even though very obviously after this mindscape, fight, he could kill them pretty easily.
00;13;21;13 - 00;13;39;07
Unknown
And so I don't know why he's talking like that, but acting one way and I, I don't know, I, I wanted to have more hints, at least, two as to what atrium is doing. If that makes sense. That's kind of my, my major gripe with that, because it felt like the whole fight scene, it just was something that was happening.
00;13;39;08 - 00;14;05;11
Unknown
It was just action inserted. But I didn't feel like it actually progressed. The plot. If that makes sense. Gray. Yeah. And then my other, much more minor, gripe with neon. I thought he was meant to be a soldier, but I don't think you've really done anything to kind of bring his soldier readiness across, and especially where he's like the teacher's pet compared to stills.
00;14;05;11 - 00;14;29;11
Unknown
And like more, it seems like he's more like the scholarly mind when it comes to their powers. It doesn't really fit. Not not that if there were other things balancing it out and making him seem more like a soldier, it would be totally fine that he's into that. Because again, I think I said this last time, it makes sense for them to know everything about their powers, because it's important for them to know everything about their powers, because it's kind of a, life or death thing.
00;14;29;13 - 00;14;59;11
Unknown
But where he doesn't have anything balancing out his scholarly ness, really. I wanted to see more of why he's the soldier persona. Yeah. Lots of lots of other questions coming up. I really want to know. I want Adrian to maybe hint at the big, bad, evil guy that we saw several sections ago. Because I want that to be still in in the reader's mind.
00;14;59;11 - 00;15;23;27
Unknown
Whatever's going to happen there. Not not necessarily that you need to do that, but it is it is nice to make sure that readers will remember other things that are going on the other side plots, other other characters who are potentially becoming more present in the story. But yeah, I want to see Gil. I didn't see any any of Gil this week.
00;15;24;01 - 00;15;58;23
Unknown
I miss him. Yeah, it's basically that well, I have to say, good. Yeah. No, I, I appreciate that. I, I feel like submitting last chapter and this one, I had this internal, like, my spider sense is going off like something is something is wrong or has the potential to be derailed right here. It's funny that you guys mention a few of these things, so I actually, said a little bit we I know we talked even on the pod about using AI as an analytical tool.
00;15;58;25 - 00;16;24;16
Unknown
So I actually was like, okay, let me see. Let me play around with this as, like, almost like an experimental dev editor or a beta reader to tell me what it would think about, the draft up to this point. And, so it brought up a few interesting things, such as the fact that the maybe the sequence of events happening in the liminal space is taking too long where, like, we're removed from the core action and from what's going on with Gil for too long, I was like, that is actually interesting.
00;16;24;16 - 00;16;46;20
Unknown
And I think that's some of what I'm feeling. And it's also funny you should mention this stuff with atrium, like, his motivations feel like kind of off and like two fluid. I pantsed this chapter way more like hard core. And I was like, I was not expecting him to do the whole fire bit, for many, many chapters.
00;16;46;20 - 00;17;03;15
Unknown
And all of a sudden it was like, oh, this is happening. Let me just say, I love that. We're like, we know that his soul is somewhere fiery and not fun, but he's still, like, present enough in the in the liminal space to be doing what he's doing. And I'm going to completely disagree with I about the liminal space.
00;17;03;15 - 00;17;28;22
Unknown
I think it it is important. I just think it needs to be, maybe focused a little bit more on what's actually going on and have it progressive, like, I think I think I see what you're trying to do with, with kind of leveling up still is in the end, a little bit and making it clear the atrium is up to something, but we just need a little bit more.
00;17;28;24 - 00;17;55;23
Unknown
And progressing this by like I is a little bit right, and it does need to progress to fight a little bit more. But yeah, I'm going to disagree with it. And because I am the human editor, I'm going to take well, one thing that I as I was thinking about that feedback as is, and you guys had mentioned last week that pop quiz bit like Take That and insert that earlier, I think Jake had mentioned I'm like, oh, well that's how you send this out to like, that's how you make sure that what's happening in here is important in plot driven and action oriented.
00;17;55;25 - 00;18;26;25
Unknown
Yeah. So yeah, yeah, I think if you could give have atrium not like a dramatic monologue. Please don't do that but have him give a more direct hint about what his ultimate goal is. Whatever that is. If if we get just a little bit more of this is what I'm trying to do from him beyond, you know, making their lives miserable, but via training.
00;18;26;28 - 00;18;52;27
Unknown
I think just just that might help quite a bit with that scene because then we then we realize that atrium is not just sadistic. He's not just tormenting them. He has an end game and yeah, that I think that would help. Yeah. For sure. No, this is invaluable hearing this, helping me to to kind of focus here.
00;18;52;29 - 00;19;14;05
Unknown
Yeah. And then actually, Tyler, to your point about Nia and, you know, not really playing the part that he's been assigned, of the soldier up till now. What do you think about the idea? I've kind of kicked this around in my head about basically just making him, like, the personality assigned to him is that of, like, a merchant or a scholar.
00;19;14;05 - 00;19;37;19
Unknown
Someone that would have business along that road, but who would be less inclined to physicality? And more of a foil to stills. Well, he's already has already been shown to be inclined towards the assassin or. I mean, he killed the one merchant he was willing to throw down with the tribesmen. He's been thinking about killing Gil. So I don't think you want to take that aspect of him away, necessarily.
00;19;37;19 - 00;20;05;29
Unknown
Yeah, that's sort of like the baseline is he is the assassin beneath whatever personality like that, that doesn't go away. But like, what the the layer on top, the frosting. That is the personality. Yeah. Changing that to something that's not explicitly soldier, but right now because I remember at the, at the beginning when he gets the personality, when he starts essentially downloading it, he gets the badge, and that badge helps him get out of the city.
00;20;06;01 - 00;20;32;27
Unknown
I think if he was a traveling merchant, like, like you suggest, especially along like this road, the I don't I can't remember what you call it, but tangled man's throat. Yeah. The tangled man's throat. I think it makes sense to him to have him be a little bit more, capable of defending himself simply because this is such a dangerous area.
00;20;32;29 - 00;21;18;09
Unknown
And we've we've talked about that, that the dangerous world that you've created, that people, if they're expecting to travel various areas for us, that they're going to have some base level of competence and self-defense. So I don't think it's a stretch to change. And this is my personal opinion. And so it's your story. I don't think it's a stretch to change him to something like a traveling merchant to, alter that to where he feels more slightly more scholarly, more more prone to negotiation versus stills, who's more prone to violence, but still having that underlying I know how to defend myself and that.
00;21;18;09 - 00;21;40;12
Unknown
And he can even make a wink and a nod to stills, his personality still being in there saying, you know, I'm not referencing that he was an assassin as stills, that he knew how to fight these, knew how to kill, and he knows when and how to do it. But like you say, that frosting over the over the assassin layer is that of a merchant.
00;21;40;14 - 00;21;49;24
Unknown
Well, I think, another idea that I think could be cool. And if you take it, I'll need a writing credit. Of course. I can't take it. I'm.
00;21;49;27 - 00;22;23;02
Unknown
Just kidding. I gave it to you for free. This, But. But keeping the base persona as a soldier, but then kind of showing how he's drifting away from that a little bit. And then stills could be like, hey, weren't you supposed to be a soldier? And and that kind of highlighting that he's not exactly a soldier, but he still has that, that, that like the building blocks of his, of his personality where again, he'll still have the ability to defend of will still have maybe the instinct to follow orders, especially when it comes to atrium.
00;22;23;02 - 00;22;42;14
Unknown
That could be another way to kind of bring out a little bit of, a soldier vibe from him, but still have him, but maybe have him drift a little bit away from that, if that's if that's not where you want him to kind of end up. Because that assassin soldier, maybe they're not different enough to to have necessitated like a complete personality shift.
00;22;42;17 - 00;23;01;13
Unknown
But if there was something beyond being a soldier that he's he's starting to grow into. I don't know if that makes sense, but yeah, I mean, I could even create like a whole new class, like envoy and someone traveling this. You know, even if they're delivering a message from one town to another in this world, they're going to have to be able to defend themselves.
00;23;01;13 - 00;23;27;22
Unknown
So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, oh, definitely. Think about all that. Appreciate the feedback, guys. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I think that's pretty much everything that I had question wise. Okay. All right. Good work. So who do we have the pleasure of reading next. Said me yep. Tyler. So Q future Tyler hey guys. Future Tyler here here to give you your context for this week.
00;23;27;25 - 00;23;47;22
Unknown
We finally get a Kate POV. Kate is Warren's mother. We start off over breakfast with the two of them. They're both kind of trying to suss each other out. They're both keeping secrets. Kate, especially is suspicious of why Warren keeps coming home covered in blood and bruises. Not a fun time for a mom. Then she goes to the library.
00;23;47;22 - 00;24;14;26
Unknown
She's trying to find a particular book to do research on the journal of Thomas Raymond. He was an explorer, a very. She is making a kind of fairy survival guide. Come to find out that it's been checked out for the last several years by none other than Principal Stone's. She talks to him, figures out the deal to get that book so that she can continue her research.
00;24;14;28 - 00;24;26;27
Unknown
Kind of setting up a lot of other important things, but not a super action heavy section. Thanks, guys.
00;24;27;00 - 00;24;59;05
Unknown
And then, a great one. This is probably great. Yeah, yeah, it sounds good. Tyler, I you remind me of this experience when I was in community college and I was in basic art class, and I sat next to this guy named Rafael, who was, like, Italian, had long hair, was an amazing artist, and we had to do critiques and they would put his, like, Mona Lisa up there and they put like my stick figure up there next to it, like, okay, you guys critique each other in front of the class.
00;24;59;07 - 00;25;22;15
Unknown
I'm like, I could know I'm kind. All right. So, I mean, not that Jake is that bad, that he's a stick figure, necessarily, but now. So all that to say that I never pass up an opportunity to jump on somebody here. This is a great chapter. This chapter from, I love how it's Kate's POV.
00;25;22;16 - 00;25;47;01
Unknown
It's not Warren's mom's POV, it's Kate. And along with that, we get, terms from her perspective. Warren is her son, right? He's the teenager in her house, and, the other people in the town that we've known up to this point. Maybe like Stan's, for instance, we know by his first name, Adam, and all these things are just these little tiny details, really go a long way to flesh out her personality.
00;25;47;03 - 00;26;12;20
Unknown
Also, just the fact that we haven't had a POV. I mean, his mom has been more of a static background character up to this point, despite the fact that our importance has been hinted at. So it's kind of nice to, you know, kind of delve into that. What what she's got going on. One more opportunity to give us kind of a nice, normal scene to juxtapose with all the paranormal when they're just sitting in their house, you know, having breakfast.
00;26;12;22 - 00;26;37;05
Unknown
I love I love Kate's ability, having obviously known her son since the day he was born, to pick out, you know, his evasiveness and do it better than anybody else. We've seen people like Layla and AJ definitely pick up on Lauren's tactics to avoid them, but, you know, his mom has a master in knowing exactly when he's sidestepping a question or when he's fishing for information.
00;26;37;07 - 00;27;00;19
Unknown
Which happens here, which I really enjoy. And then also just, any excuse to have a library scene is A-okay with me. Maybe I'm biased. Maybe we all are. Probably in this group. Maybe. Maybe a little bit. And and I feel like you you have, the library in this town fittingly exists as a place of both coziness and of mystery.
00;27;00;19 - 00;27;17;20
Unknown
Some might say cozy mystery. You you go so far as to, like, describe the smell of the dusty ness of the books, and not in a generic way. But like vanilla and nuttiness, I think you it's the way you phrase it in the way the books are decomposing. And that's cool. And I'm like, man, he must have researched this.
00;27;17;20 - 00;27;20;19
Unknown
That's. I sure did.
00;27;20;21 - 00;27;43;08
Unknown
And that shows and I, I appreciate those little details. Yeah. The fact that, definitely one of my, not my least weird research session that I've had these. I not like how to break someone's spleen or what does a person look like after being underwater for two days? I goes like, why are you asking? Oh, don't worry about it.
00;27;43;08 - 00;28;08;16
Unknown
Needs to. There needs to be, on every single browser. There needs to be an I'm a writer setting that like, it's okay. Yeah, it does get alerted. Yeah. They just get another another notification like, okay, Tyler has is at it again. Add another note to the list. Yeah. You'd be an interesting serial killer, Tyler. I'd be a really good story.
00;28;08;16 - 00;28;34;25
Unknown
Okay, let's do it. I don't tell me that. I'm glad these resume says he's not. Yeah, well, just just know, like, I have goats and stuff, but if I ever do get pigs, you'll know something happens. There will just be a little. A little patch of beard in the goat's mouth where Jason used to be. That was left.
00;28;34;28 - 00;28;57;00
Unknown
Wow. And once we did promise rabbit holes that at the open of the whole project. So mad. Yeah, I, I love library, I love kind of the, the flashbacks. I love the description of Mr. Westley who were getting to know a little bit more about, I actually had a temptation in this chapter. I made a note.
00;28;57;02 - 00;29;18;05
Unknown
Such was my consternation. I was about to critique you, but I didn't have the chance. I had to kind of take my hand back from slapping you. There is a moments, in which I was going to ask you to, you know, my favorite critique show. Don't tell. And let me see if I can find it here.
00;29;18;07 - 00;29;47;02
Unknown
Okay, so this is page. What page is this? Page nine. The paragraph, starting with thoughtfully, should replace the card and lock the room back up. And over the course of that paragraph, you give us a live exposition about Mr. Wisely. And how he, you know, keep things for nostalgia and how he'd shake his head at certain things, astonished that people wouldn't return library books.
00;29;47;05 - 00;30;03;18
Unknown
And I was thinking, like, initially I was like, I would really like to see this play out in person. But then I was like, but why does this work so well in this section? And I think it's just the stillness of the library and the sense of atmosphere and the fact that all of this is very appropriately playing out in Kate's head.
00;30;03;20 - 00;30;26;22
Unknown
Because this is such a quiet section. It just worked really beautifully. So I kind of took that back, and that was my one chance. Other than catching you on little grammar issues and technicalities to, to slap you. So disappointed in that. But yeah, overall, just, an enjoyable section. Really enjoyed it, especially compared to last chapter, which Jake and I both agreed we hated.
00;30;26;22 - 00;30;50;18
Unknown
So yeah, it's. Yes, we hated, but it was the necessary and well-written edition. It's like when you hate a villain, you're like, why is this guy even in your book? You're like, well, that's the point. You're supposed to cast. Yeah, they're not supposed to like him. Let's see for my take, unless you had anything else to add, gray, that is it now.
00;30;50;18 - 00;31;20;16
Unknown
Appreciate you. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Overall, this section. Good. Well-written. I like 99% of it. It it gave a lot of worldbuilding. You know, I'm a sucker for good worldbuilding. And there is a boatload in this section of really good worldbuilding. And not the not the heavy handed approach. Like, it's that there's a lot of stuff mixed in.
00;31;20;18 - 00;31;55;24
Unknown
It lets us know, more about the town, more about her, more about, her family. And we see you still dancing around the question of dad and what happened to dad, and that. Nicely done. Driving me nuts, but nicely done. I like that you finally answered the question of why did they move from Chicago to a tiny town in the middle of nowhere?
00;31;55;27 - 00;32;28;12
Unknown
And the fact that, you know, mom found out about the Fight club and, Did exactly what I moms would do in that scenario, I would say especially a single mom. Rightly so. And so, yeah, I, I think there was one section, I like that using Welsh. Good luck, because that's a heck of a language to use.
00;32;28;14 - 00;32;55;07
Unknown
Makes sense with what you're doing, don't get me wrong. But it is, it is, it is quite the language. To do. I have questions about the town that Brecon is also a town in Wales and I'm as that was going self. I'm asking myself, is this town connected? Be because they named it that or is the connection already there?
00;32;55;07 - 00;33;13;13
Unknown
And they named it that as a result, it's just one of those things. You don't necessarily have to answer it, but it's one of those things that that makes me think so. Let's see here. There was one.
00;33;13;16 - 00;33;43;18
Unknown
Section, one bit of conversation that for some reason and don't ask me why, like I read it and I read it and I read it and it just it's the part, I know what Laura did to close the portal. That's where it starts and ends. And that seemed to be enough for him for some reason. The way that section went just, I don't know, it felt weird to me, and it felt off, and I couldn't put my finger on why.
00;33;43;20 - 00;34;03;07
Unknown
I don't know if it's because of Warren or because of her. Just, I don't know, maybe some maybe some of your beta readers will be able to pick out why exactly? I just I don't know it. Like I said, I read it several times, and I did. I just couldn't put my finger on why it felt like it.
00;34;03;09 - 00;34;23;25
Unknown
It was a rough. Are you talking about that line of dialog in particular, Jake, or just the sentiment that both of them somehow know almost supernaturally that the ant isn't dead? It's maybe that's it. Maybe it I don't know, because it says, I know that Laura did close the portal. He finally said, I don't know what what Laura and Laura did to close the portal.
00;34;23;28 - 00;34;46;04
Unknown
Everyone thinks, is she? She's dead. You said she drowned. She didn't drown. Kate said her hand rested on her leather journal. I don't think she's dead. He stared at her. Why? Just a feeling, she said. He nodded thoughtfully and didn't ask the follow up question she expected. That seemed to be enough for him that section. Every time I read it, I was like, I don't know if I want Warren to say more.
00;34;46;07 - 00;35;06;06
Unknown
I don't know if I want him to say less. I don't know if I want there to be another question in there. I almost feel like rereading it, that Warren might be a little taken aback that his mom admits so casually that she lied to him all these years. Yeah. And that's that's one that might be the thing.
00;35;06;06 - 00;35;12;12
Unknown
Like when initially,
00;35;12;15 - 00;35;37;21
Unknown
Warren asks about the weird things. She denies it, just outright denies it. You know, there's nothing weird going on. It's all a bunch of. And then we come to find out, no, she actually knows. Like, she's she knows. And, I feel like Warren, I don't know that he would confront her because he loves, like, the respect that he's shown and the the the worry that he's shown.
00;35;37;23 - 00;35;57;04
Unknown
I don't feel like he would say, why? You know, why did you lie to me all these years? Like, that doesn't seem like something he would do, but it does. I do think he would ask more questions just to kind of get that same sentiment of cross, while still maintaining that level of respect that we've seen from him.
00;35;57;06 - 00;36;20;09
Unknown
That is really important to him, that mom is okay, that mom is safe, that mom is happy. And so, yeah, maybe just a few more questions from him about it would would help that. Yeah. And you guys have pointed out before that like it's weird that he asks so many questions of Bradley, but he doesn't really ask any questions of anybody else.
00;36;20;09 - 00;36;41;09
Unknown
And then his mom, who's he? He does trust. And he should be able to talk to you about these things. He doesn't he really doesn't. Yeah. That's that's a good that's a good point. And and like I think the questions he asks are going to be important because of he doesn't like Bradley. He doesn't care if your friends Bradley doesn't care if he makes them mad.
00;36;41;12 - 00;37;05;12
Unknown
He cares if he makes his mom mad. He cares if he hits her. His whole role is to protect his mom and her emotional health and her physical well-being and everything else. It does make sense to a certain extent that he wouldn't poke the bear too much on that, but I think I know there are ways where he he could I mean, she excuse me, she notices when he's fishing for something and it tends to be very indirect about it.
00;37;05;12 - 00;37;21;04
Unknown
But this seems like a rare opportunity in which they're kind of both like, okay, this is out in the open now. Yeah. It does feel a little bit weird that he wouldn't, ask a follow up in this instance. I don't think it's weird that he hadn't up to this point. Right. Because he had secrets. He has secrets of his own, right?
00;37;21;05 - 00;37;40;15
Unknown
Maybe that's actually why he's not following up here, because he's afraid he's going to get called on what he's doing in the mountains. Now. He's gotten those bruises, I don't know, and maybe you can even just throw in a throwaway line. Well, I guess you can't because it's not his POV. But yeah, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, that's actually needed something.
00;37;40;17 - 00;37;47;06
Unknown
Whatever it is. Yeah.
00;37;47;09 - 00;38;17;08
Unknown
Going forward, I like you. You you have to ask that final question. Isn't there anything else you want to talk about? And then she has those unasked questions that you have the follow up. I like how that emphasizes that their relationship is still awkward. It's feels a little strained. I thought those those were good additions. And, you know, he leaves so that it.
00;38;17;11 - 00;39;03;05
Unknown
Yeah, puts the right kind of emphasis on their relationship. Getting into the library scene. I don't really have any direct, like, critiques or commentary. Just a couple of comments that I thought were funny. Like, she has unlimited access, something that's dangerous to give to a bookworm. That section flowed really well. Admittedly, the person who has the book she's looking for, wasn't who I expected, so I liked that, I liked it, it was like I got to read that part and I was like, oh, Bradley's got it.
00;39;03;05 - 00;39;30;24
Unknown
And she's like, oh, wait, no, Bradley doesn't have it. Wait, okay. But I like that it it it helps us realize that a star is actually doing something like it's not. And that wasn't a throwaway scene with him back in the church between him and Bradley, that Stan's is legitimately doing something. And it has probably been it has been for a while.
00;39;30;27 - 00;40;06;19
Unknown
So let's see here. Yeah. No, I like oh, like I said, overall, it's a really important world building scene, building motivation, building scene that, we now have more ambiguity about the question of whether or not they should open the gate again, because all of a sudden, somebody who's really important to our main character thinks that Bradley might be right.
00;40;06;22 - 00;40;31;14
Unknown
And it it. It starts it puts the opening of the gate into a little bit more of a gray area and becomes a question like, I, you don't want it to be too black and white, you know? Well, if it opens, it's all bad or it's, oh, if it opens, it's all good. It's there could be good, there could be bad.
00;40;31;14 - 00;40;53;16
Unknown
And this helps that stay ambiguous. Yeah, it would be great if they open the gate and she's alive and they can find her. But what if, you know, what if opening the gate all of a sudden those evil purple flowers are everywhere? Which would be terrible. So, yeah, this is a really good, really good section. I really like it.
00;40;53;18 - 00;41;20;28
Unknown
I was a little worried when I at first, and I was like, oh, another POV. And then I was like, oh, wait, no, this is an important POV or fight. So who is Cate? Yeah, I took I can only hate. Who the heck is, Warren's money? Yeah. You answered it quickly enough. Yes, yes. And so yeah, actually, as I, as I'm editing as a and as I'm working with my better readers, I've decided I need to put another POV of hers much, much earlier in the book.
00;41;21;00 - 00;41;43;11
Unknown
Interesting. Yeah, I would, I would say that would probably help this scene, especially, I don't know where you would put it at this juncture, but it's going to be the second scene. So we'll have the fight club scene, and then it will be her finding out and having that. Oh, okay. Yeah. That didn't go down.
00;41;43;13 - 00;42;07;13
Unknown
That's okay. Yeah. I like that scene is something I, I knew I probably needed to do, but I didn't feel like I was ready to write such an emotional scene. So now I need to buckle up and actually do it. Yeah. Nothing like writing a scene where you sit down and you're like, wow, I'm really uncomfortable with my.
00;42;07;16 - 00;42;30;17
Unknown
It's a lot of emotions on the page, right? It's one of the reasons why, after Warren kills that hound, the first time that he encounters, I kind of just fade to black like I could have. Like, I tried to write it where he had, like, more, even more of an emotional thing, but I, I felt like it needed to be like a blank spot and then a little bit and then moving on.
00;42;30;20 - 00;42;53;22
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. That was my final thoughts. Any questions for us? Not really. I'm interested to see what you guys think about the next scene, because this, especially with the books, is going to lead into some of the things that happened in the, in, in, in chapter 21. So I did like how you set things up in this chapter.
00;42;53;27 - 00;43;25;08
Unknown
Yeah. Did you already have an excuse to hunt down that book? Yeah. Also, the fact that she's making what is effectively a survival guide changes my whole expectation regarding what's going to happen with the portal. So yeah. Yeah, I refrained from reading forward, even though you gave me access, because that's what I want to maintain. I want, I want to maintain it that way I can that way I don't go back and critique, not just binge the book and come back like three weeks later, like what was this chapter about?
00;43;25;08 - 00;43;44;15
Unknown
Oh, yeah. That's oh, I know this guy is going to die. And I, yes, yes. Yeah. No, that's fair, but I, I really gave you guys complete access because I didn't have my computer, but I needed to get I mean, it worked out. I just copy and pasted it onto a word file and, same. Yeah.
00;43;44;16 - 00;44;05;24
Unknown
Yeah. That works. The funny thing, I just, I misread it, so I got down to that the, the, card stamp, and I didn't realize that that wasn't the transition because I wasn't, like, I was just kind of skimming it, because I didn't want to go too far. And so when I got to that and I was reading it, I was like, wait a minute, that's not right.
00;44;05;25 - 00;44;31;01
Unknown
Go back in, I love them. Oh, okay. It does kind of look like your time stamp. So yes, that's two sections. Yes. Yeah. So yeah, I don't really have any other questions. I appreciate you guys just for the second on that. Well done. All right. Yeah. All right. Okay. Guess it's my turn. Yeah, it's probably my turn to go into your first.
00;44;31;01 - 00;45;09;28
Unknown
Right? Yep. Are we going to keep murdering some of you? Oh, you future me two future JK. Hey everybody, it's me again. So this week's clip is continuing. We are continuing the, fallout from Jessica and Aaron realizing they'd have their memories modified. I also come across the fact that I forgot to add an important detail that the guys will point well, point out to me that, I forgot to add so that, reveals why critique groups are important because they catch little things like that.
00;45;10;01 - 00;45;36;04
Unknown
So, there are, since slower scenes, scenes that may or may not stay in the book entirely. We'll see what happens, moving forward. But, that's really all I've got. Also, there is a reference to hearing and at five, that's true. So if you've read Hero Unit five, you'll get to see sort of the other parts of something, some of the other parts of the city.
00;45;36;04 - 00;45;59;14
Unknown
And what happens in that. All right. That's all I got by there you get there we go. I finished with the good stuff. I really like that we got that head nod to, I assume, what's happening in your other book at the same time. I saw, like, all throughout the section, I saw what you were trying to do.
00;45;59;16 - 00;46;32;02
Unknown
And I really liked what you're trying to do. Learning more about Ace's history, like taking a nuke and and, taking a nuke. Nuclear bomb? Yeah, she's she's a super man. That's cool. I really like that. So you introduce, another client, and I wasn't really sure why, and it definitely felt a lot like,
00;46;32;05 - 00;47;14;16
Unknown
Was your face his mom? Marisol. So when they were trying to find. They felt a lot like that. Where I assume that it's going to become clear why this is important later, but it kind of felt like it popped up and and popped down, and there I it's not clear to me how it's progressing the plot. I'm gonna talk a lot about progressing the plot to, I think, because that was kind of my main, my main things with this, I you can use it to introduce this thing with AI where there's some questions about not their legality necessarily, but the right to know and how Eve can actually act, which honestly, I think should
00;47;14;16 - 00;47;32;15
Unknown
have come up earlier. And maybe this could have been like a, a continuation of that. And I know this was in your 26,000 word sprint. So like a lot of my things I'm thinking are just because of that, you're kind of rushing through. But definitely in your vision, I would want a little bit more of a lead up to that.
00;47;32;17 - 00;47;57;28
Unknown
That feels like it should be affecting other things, especially since they really do kind of live in the legal world without necessarily being in the legal world. Do this again. Yes, that's it. Oh yeah. At least it looks good. At least I have a non stupid look on my face right? So might kick me out here a little bit.
00;47;58;01 - 00;48;22;13
Unknown
But we'll see. Yeah. So I like what was, I can say shoot. So I like, I like what you're trying to do there by basically gotcha with with her. And I feel like you in this section, you kind of continue with that where she is treated differently because of who she is, because of what she is.
00;48;22;13 - 00;48;31;25
Unknown
Really. And I think that was good.
00;48;31;28 - 00;48;58;05
Unknown
I think and there he goes. So sorry. Jesse. Oh dang it. Did we get a chance for knock knock jokes this time. No. He's like I just listened to you. I just edited, episode five today where I was having the same problems and, you know, and you guys talked for that. It was. It was.
00;48;58;05 - 00;49;14;19
Unknown
It was funny. At least last time, it. I don't think it happened while I was, giving my critique. So a little bit about last time, sorry. That's probably really throwing you off. Yeah, I don't know, I, I, I'm getting a little bit frustrated with Riverside, and it was good. I don't know, but we'll figure it out.
00;49;14;21 - 00;49;32;03
Unknown
Yeah. The next chapter. Completely lost any train of thought that I once had. Oh. Okay. So they.
00;49;32;05 - 00;50;08;18
Unknown
Oh, I got even got lost myself. So after after meeting with the lawyer who wants to put them on retainer, which sounds like a sweet gig. Honestly, I feel like anytime somebody, a professional gets put on retainer, it must be really nice for them. Speaking as a freelancer. But then after that, when they. When they go to their firearms class, and then the and then what happens with the other book with whatever is going on with Ace and Angela, they feel the waves of power distortions, which is still a little bit vague.
00;50;08;20 - 00;50;26;29
Unknown
I'm glad that you're not just leaning on natural laws shifting, but, I still want a little bit more like, electric electric surges, vibrations. And I know we've talked about, at least you told told us that your thoughts are having, like, pressure shifts and stuff like that, but that needs to make it into these things.
00;50;27;01 - 00;50;49;26
Unknown
Yeah. I was I was really excited to be like, oh, something's happening in the other book. People are going to like, there's a lot. But then it didn't quite it didn't quite hit for me after that because I didn't again, I didn't feel like it progressed the plot. It felt like kind of an empty head nod, whereas I think you should have used it to, to do something more.
00;50;49;28 - 00;51;13;19
Unknown
And you make you make strokes towards that, like you have the guy who again treats Eve a little bit differently because she's or at least I assume that he's treating her a little bit differently because she's I. But the main problem with this was that there wasn't enough internal dialog. There wasn't enough of their thoughts to to kind of make it clear how this was actually affecting them, like really good action, really good dialog.
00;51;13;22 - 00;51;47;02
Unknown
But I want more of that internal stuff to see how it's actually, actually affecting them. It's interesting that Exceptionals aren't allowed to use their powers during lockdown. That feels like a really good law. I don't know how that's enforced. Yeah, a little bit like martial law. And maybe it's just like you get toggled on basically, which kind of felt like this, this Charlie guy, Charlie, Charlie.
00;51;47;04 - 00;52;06;08
Unknown
Who is kind of a jerk to me, kind of like, really quickly a jerk to them. And I get that in the end, that would be something where a little bit of description, like he's already freaking out. So that would make it a little bit more understandable why he reacts. So what he does, it kind of escalates really fast, but we don't have that description to know that he's, feeling that.
00;52;06;11 - 00;52;35;05
Unknown
So that would be a small tweak to make. And then again, just just how this impacts Eve, because I feel like she's affected by a lot of the things going on around here. But we don't dwell on that, you know? Yeah. And again, totally get that this was your your massive, massive sprint. Yeah. So I, I, I definitely understand why a lot of these things kind of, happened, but definitely in your, in your revisions.
00;52;35;07 - 00;52;50;20
Unknown
Okay. What the heck are they going to do about Lizzy? They just found out that they have their memories tampered with and they're not doing anything. That's kind of my other frustration. I feel like even if they're not trying to go after her legally, because I understand that might be difficult to do, but they'd be doing something.
00;52;50;20 - 00;53;20;29
Unknown
They're these superheroes with access to Superman, and they're not like, I don't know. They're not they're not doing something to seek revenge. That kind of doesn't feel as realistic to me. And and especially because it was such a profound moment where like, now she's actually with their, you know, practically engaged, and she tells Eve, it feels like there should be a lot more emotionally charged actions about or towards Lizzy.
00;53;21;01 - 00;53;42;21
Unknown
Okay, okay then. But yeah. Well, world building is always freaking awesome. I love I love learning about more about their powers, about how exceptional have affected the world, about different things that have to happen when bad things are going down. It makes sense that people aren't supposed to use their superpowers when there's another massive, I'm assuming, massive, massive crisis.
00;53;42;23 - 00;54;08;16
Unknown
I have it not. Having read your other book. Yes. Very, very bad situation in the other book. Yeah. A bomb found in a hospital. Basically, that's what I figured it was. It was. And they kind of mentioned that, like, it was it was is bringing something out of the city so that she could handle it.
00;54;08;17 - 00;54;30;13
Unknown
And and then since I have a question before I forget, because I keep forgetting to ask this, did I forget to mention that everybody thinks Lizzie's dead? I don't remember that. You definitely did forget to mention them. All right. Yeah. So that would. Yeah. That that that makes that excellent. Okay. Yeah. No. We think she's dead or. Yes.
00;54;30;16 - 00;54;53;02
Unknown
Yes. Okay. So what I kind of saw okay. Maybe I forgot to write that. I gotta make sure I write that in. No. No. Right after it was supposed to happen in the scene, right after they realize, like, right after. And she gets back to the apartment after, fighting with ace. Darren. Or know it has to be Darren.
00;54;53;02 - 00;55;15;21
Unknown
Darren mentions that she they think she and her sister died in a car accident. So they think she's dead. That's why, like, they they don't know who she paid to tamper with their memories. So Angela's handling that, which is why they go do the police report and everything. But they think that she's dead. Gotcha. Yeah, I don't think that made that in because.
00;55;15;21 - 00;55;41;00
Unknown
Okay, I feel like I remember that because I was. It makes me a lot less pressure like this going to the range and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Why why it's not why they're not immediately active. Yeah I gotta. I gotta make sure I make sure that's in there. Yeah. Because especially in the last section when she like loses control and has to have ace kind of take her, take her somewhere.
00;55;41;02 - 00;55;54;14
Unknown
So to be to have her way on ace, I feel like that would have been directed elsewhere if she known that Lizzie was alive. Yeah.
00;55;54;16 - 00;56;20;13
Unknown
All right, I want to I yeah, I was going to ask that last time, and I totally spaced. I want to make sure I ask before, so I can make sure it gets in there. Cool. Anything else? Tyler? Nope. Okay, great. Let me have it. All right, well, some of that makes more sense now. And, Jackie, I am totally right with you on missing certain details.
00;56;20;13 - 00;56;42;10
Unknown
You're like, oh, I thought that motivation was clear. Whoops. Okay, that makes sense. Awesome. Let's see. Okay, so, right from the get go, Eve is like, wait, what happens? You know, like when Jessica is kind of getting her up to speed and a lot of that happens kind of off screen, which I think is good.
00;56;42;10 - 00;57;01;11
Unknown
No need to retread it. All of that. We do transition pretty quickly now. It makes a little bit more sense to the next, case here, but, just a couple things. I liked the fact that, Eve, it was so was like, okay, well, how is your day? And Eve's like, well, I bought a car for the first time.
00;57;01;11 - 00;57;31;28
Unknown
Now I know what everybody hates used car salesman. And it's like, oh, you are becoming human. That was that was funny and relatable. So good job on that. I like those little moments to break up tension. Let's see. As for this next client, gosh, Mrs. Jennings. Jennings. I, I like Tyler. I'm assuming that there is going to be some, payoff here.
00;57;31;28 - 00;57;54;28
Unknown
This is going to be something related to the plot that's going to get cashed in. There's a couple things that happen, over the course of that interview that I found interesting, for good or for confusing, one of which I, I like the fact that they have this, I don't know, it's very it feels like a very professional, well thought out conversation.
00;57;55;00 - 00;58;13;14
Unknown
They would be having as to, you know, contract rates and things like that. And that just feels like something that you're pretty good at, generally speaking. And, you know, this kind of procedural take on things. It seems like something that you're, I'm assuming your readership is into getting this, like, lawyer or like, businesslike like that, that part of the superhero world.
00;58;13;19 - 00;58;37;17
Unknown
So I think you excel at that. And that's on display here. Some of those details that you pepper in, kind of just how new Mrs. or Miss Jennings seems to be like just how green she is. The fact that she has all this new office furniture right, like, completely brand new, and the fact that she doesn't have a privacy screen on her computer, looking at all this stuff.
00;58;37;17 - 00;59;01;02
Unknown
And there may be one or other two details. That I didn't mention and, like, okay, I feel like this is you're presenting her as, like, she's pretty sharp in their conversation, and yet she feels so green here with other aspects. Is she, like setting them up for something like, you know, she's she's playing dirty pool. Like, you know, that's the feeling that I got like something's going to come up later.
00;59;01;05 - 00;59;25;05
Unknown
And she's kind of luring them into a contract to, you know, having them on retainer, only to pull something shady later is kind of the feeling I got. But, that was interesting, and I, I do agree, this thing with Eve like that could potentially come up later. Her status as an AI and the fact that it's like she's given basically a special designation, from the Ed in order to operate the way that she does.
00;59;25;08 - 00;59;40;06
Unknown
A couple good lines. Like, I like how the Miss Jennings talks about how she needs to pay rent. And so she's like, hey, I'm just voicing the concerns of my superiors. And you're like, as a reader, like, I think that's what she's doing. I think I can trust her, but something's, I don't know, could be reading into it.
00;59;40;08 - 01;00;13;22
Unknown
Okay. As far as this next section, due to the do. All right, starting with, the new timestamp, when Jessica and Eve, go to the firearms training academy, I thought that was, kind of a cool idea. But the first paragraph, basically, the second sentence, the first paragraph there, they spent the last few hours going over the laws for carrying openly and concealed, followed by drills, hours of drills, and then it's like, boom, they're out of there.
01;00;13;22 - 01;00;33;07
Unknown
They're walking to the car. I'm like, oh, this is one more chance that you get to like, you could almost, my brain goes to like script format where you're like, montage here's, you know, like five different things that are happening during this scene. They're shooting at targets. You're listening to a lawyer drone on and on about the, you know, the consequences of if you actually have to shoot somebody, they're doing classroom.
01;00;33;07 - 01;00;57;07
Unknown
They're looking at diagrams. They're, you know, you're seeing targets get lit up as they squeeze the trigger in a firing line, like, I feel like it's one opportunity to, to be visual on this instance in that you, your readers, are probably also find interesting. I still don't understand the natural law shifting, if I'm being honest, and I think you did make more of an attempt to explain that this time.
01;00;57;10 - 01;01;24;22
Unknown
As far as when they get outside and this whole thing happens with ace, I did I was like, oh, this is cool. And I also got the feeling like this is probably, you know, a nod to something happening concurrently in another book. Which is cool. Like, by all means, please do that. It did feel, I don't know, like, I like, I like the martial law thing when when people start panicking, it, like, happens, like instantaneously.
01;01;24;22 - 01;01;49;21
Unknown
Almost. And you, you kept using that word panic explicitly. And I kind of started highlighting each instance of it. I wasn't sure. Is that, like a specific power set? Like, somebody in the crowd is like leaking their emotions and it's spilling out and everybody else, I think that was me just not watching my word choice. Okay, honestly, I, I yeah, yeah.
01;01;49;23 - 01;02;13;21
Unknown
Okay. I mean, I mean, it's not a so it's not outside the realm of possibility to make that assumption because, one of the things and I don't get as many chances to emphasize it with Jessica and Eve, is that some exceptionals have more or less control over their powers. Like, I refer reference as having perfect control on her power.
01;02;13;21 - 01;02;41;22
Unknown
She can, for all intents and purposes, turn them off to where they're not active, whereas some exceptionals it's a little bit harder. Their powers are almost always on, and then you have the used, which they have no control over their powers at all. And if there was somebody with less control, especially in emotional situation. Yeah, they could have been their powers could have been leaking out.
01;02;41;22 - 01;03;03;15
Unknown
But in this scenario, it was it was just me writing really fast. Okay. I mean, I don't know, that could be a mechanic that's at play. It did seem like everybody started panicking, like, instantaneously. Which I don't know if there is something to that scale going on, I suppose. But, there's a paragraph, beginning with some of them.
01;03;03;15 - 01;03;33;02
Unknown
Ask Jessica if she knew word had spread that she was friends with the fifth, so people thought she had answers. I was like, that felt kind of like weak sauce to me. I was kind of looking for an instance of someone actually coming up to her and tapping you on the shoulder and like, wait, I know you. You know, ace, you know, like something like that to kind of just like, show that, that even a rando or someone else in the, in the firearms academy who would be there in law enforcement capacity would be like, hey, I know that you're, you know, somebody you must know something about the situation and kind of,
01;03;33;05 - 01;03;51;21
Unknown
come out from that angle. Okay? I do like when, when the big guy Charlie, starts to freak out, he does. He does feel like, kind of like a stock jerk character, almost. I mean, it could even be him. Like, recognizing and tapping your on the shoulder. Yeah.
01;03;51;23 - 01;04;21;18
Unknown
Let's see. Yeah. Just, I don't know. He could be the face. As on the drama unfolding the situation, I don't know, you could have. So there's that. That kind of, like, mental broadcast that occurs. I was, like, kind of looking for a visual. I don't know if this world, like, on their devices, if there would be, like, some sort of, like, really far away fuzzy footage of, like, her flying into the sky with whatever object it is, or I'm picturing her flying something into the sun.
01;04;21;18 - 01;04;56;21
Unknown
I know it's not what's happening, but she leaves the leaves, the atmosphere or something like that. Right? Okay, okay. Due to do to do. Yeah. The interaction with Charlie feels a little bit forced as is. I like the idea. I just feel like, it ramped up really quick. Let's see. And then I was also looking, and this is kind of the unique challenge that we've talked about with you having these exceptionals especially like ace that are, for all purposes, basically invincible.
01;04;56;21 - 01;05;17;17
Unknown
It's like, this is Superman plus the century. Like, this guy's all powerful. She's a ba. When Jessica is like, hey, don't even worry about it. Like, she's got it. Whatever it is, like, it could be, you know, she could be fighting Galactus and it would be fine. And like, wow, that's kind of cool. For worldbuilding purposes, it is also kind of like a it take.
01;05;17;19 - 01;05;43;10
Unknown
It sucks the tension right out of the, you know, all this tension that you'd been trying to build. She just kind of like, you know, don't worry about it. I'm sure she'll be fine. Like, she can take anything. She she's in a nuclear bomb. I don't know if there's. I don't know, like, we're all human, right? Like, even if you know that someone's capable of handling a situation, like, you know that your wife's going to have some huge presentation at work, and you're, like, nervous for her, even though, you know, she's a BA and she can handle it.
01;05;43;13 - 01;06;03;04
Unknown
Like, you still like, internally maybe like she's fine, right? Yeah. I don't know. Okay. I don't know if that's like splitting the baby too much, but, it just seems like she was pretty confident. Like ace will knock this out of the park. It's fine. Yeah. Like, maybe that's the face that she puts on to everybody else, like, hey, pedestrians, everything's going to be fine.
01;06;03;08 - 01;06;27;07
Unknown
But is it? Yeah, I think that's what I was going for. I need to I think I need to internal dialog. Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. She she could be saying one thing and thinking another and that would be so powerful. Yeah, yeah. She could give this whole spiel about surviving nukes and all that and and still question it.
01;06;27;09 - 01;06;59;27
Unknown
Yeah. Does anyone have a weakness, like Kryptonite or anything like that? She does. Yes. I'm curious. Okay. Yes. She does. And here are unit three. It it it's spoken about. It's talked about labradoodle doodles. Yes. No. There's some there's some weird ones. I mean, I try not to make them. Everybody. Every exceptional has a weakness.
01;06;59;29 - 01;07;33;05
Unknown
And it it's like an allergic reaction on steroids when you get, subjected to it. Ace has one. Angela has one. Even Eve has one. Technically, because she's. She is an exceptional, even if she is a robot. Yeah. Good way to bring in some stakes. Yeah. And that's the the the one thing I try not to do overly much because I.
01;07;33;07 - 01;07;58;18
Unknown
Yeah, one of the things that bothers me with Superman is it's, well, how do we deal with Superman Kryptonite. And they don't always lean on the emotional stakes as much. So, you know, not that I'm great at leaning on those myself. Yeah, I wasn't going to say.
01;07;58;21 - 01;08;29;13
Unknown
Anyway. Sorry. Great. What were you saying? No, I just, it continues to be a cool world that your characters inhabit. And I think that you're obviously very technically versed. You know exactly what's going on in every corner of your world at this particular moment, which is super cool. And when we get to get a peek into, like, it's not just stopping by to be the nice mom character and the mentor, but also to, like, take care of business and the fact that, like, something dangerous could be happening off screen, you know, elsewhere in the city, I think that's super cool.
01;08;29;15 - 01;08;44;09
Unknown
You just got to play with that knob and, like, crank it to the right setting in terms of, in terms of tension and stakes, you know, some of your readers, undoubtedly the ones that have read your mainline books are like, I know what's happening right now, and they're not going to be worried for us because they know she's going to survive.
01;08;44;09 - 01;09;12;10
Unknown
But you know, we're reading this story right now in this particular perspective. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love, I love how technically competent you are. I'm a little bit jealous that you care. Just can have these conversations about contract negotiations. It still sounds interesting. Like I. Yeah. Yeah, that took some. That took some work. So I do have a question about, set up and pay off.
01;09;12;13 - 01;09;34;13
Unknown
So I mentioned and it's been a bit it's way back, I mentioned the firearms training class, how they have it scheduled. They're going to go do it when Eva's driving to work with her, with Magnus and his daughter. And so that's why this scene is is here.
01;09;34;15 - 01;10;02;14
Unknown
So does it feel like the right kind of payoff that I've mentioned? It earlier and that it happens again, simply because the timeline allows it to happen and happens to happen on the same day as something else. The other book, like, I know. I mean, like, now that you mention it, that sounds vaguely familiar. Obviously we're reading on some a different timeline from your readers.
01;10;02;21 - 01;10;27;09
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. I don't know that even if I had read this, like, this week, I would have been like, firearm training class. Heck, yeah. I'm more of, like, catch the techno ghost. And why were you advisories? You know, those are the big questions, right? Right, right. I mean, it's nice to have this here. Okay. Yeah. Your world sometimes feels like a little bit like law and order and that, like, you got the times of having, like, done like, this is what's happening at this moment, right?
01;10;27;13 - 01;10;47;00
Unknown
Yeah. It's it's one thing that you mentioned earlier in the schedule and now it's now it's popping up. And on again to go with that on the the lawyer, I know I need to work on that scene. I don't want her to come across as suspicious, but she's more of a of a set up for the next book.
01;10;47;02 - 01;11;09;03
Unknown
In this series, more as a way to give cases to Jessica outside of, you know, word of mouth through friends and stuff like that. And it's also, I'll admit, a little bit of a nod to Perry Mason, which was a big inspiration for the theory and a series. So.
01;11;09;06 - 01;11;33;04
Unknown
Knowing that that she's not necessarily going to be central to the main plot of this one. But she will come into play in the next books. I would spend way less time with her in this way. Okay. It does feel dicey then her. Okay, I would I would think hard about even including it, to be honest.
01;11;33;04 - 01;11;52;12
Unknown
I mean, you know what? This could just summarize. Like, they met with Miss Jennings and you can kind of summarize the whole scene because it's because now. Because now I'm expecting it to be like with Marissa's mom, where she kind of pops up and then it becomes a part of the plot. But if it doesn't, and even then, like, that plot felt like it kind of fizzled.
01;11;52;14 - 01;12;10;13
Unknown
And I know we're going to come back to it, obviously, but it didn't feel like it's it had like, much of a conclusion at this point, purposefully so. But then I also like it made me look kind of askance at this scene. Like, I, I don't know if this super work, the last time you did this, so.
01;12;10;16 - 01;12;34;25
Unknown
Yeah. And then, back to the firearms, like I it's cool that you mentioned it and then you have it happened, I think, you know, it was kind of a nonevent like, they may as well have just been going for McDonald's or something and ended up right wherever they were. So I don't know if maybe like a montage like Ray was talking about or, or something else happening at training would make that feel like more of a payoff.
01;12;34;27 - 01;12;52;26
Unknown
You know? Okay, you got all the pieces. I just think you need to put a little bit more gunpowder on there under their toes. And it's nothing stopping you. You have all the pieces of the puzzle. You just need more black powder. It's like, yeah, they didn't really work very well, but that's what it came out of my mouth.
01;12;53;00 - 01;13;15;04
Unknown
But. And this is more evidence to why we probably should have named it clearly. Because I. What are you talking about, gray? Haven't you ever put a firecracker underneath the puzzle? So if you go put on some puzzle and then you just light a match, there's gunpowder or anything. Just blow it up. There's a YouTube video in there somewhere.
01;13;15;06 - 01;13;24;03
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. See, I think.
01;13;24;06 - 01;13;48;13
Unknown
I think that's everything. Cool. Yeah. Sometimes I worry about that when we're recording, so, like. Like they're not really bringing their A-game all the time for this fight. Not always. Well, no. Not always. No, but. Oh, I read, people. Is that. Yeah. I'm very much more moreso a morning person. I'm not a I'm actually. That's why you're so lucid.
01;13;48;16 - 01;14;04;29
Unknown
It's like, I'm a, I'm a nine, 10:00 or I don't I because I have kids that have to get up. I have to be a morning person. But no, like, it's it's probably people obviously this that like go to bed at three and they're like oh you're a night person. You go to bed at 8 or 9.
01;14;04;29 - 01;14;27;00
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. If I could, if I could wake up at like nine and go to bed at closer to ten, 1030, I'd be no, I, I would be happier. That's probably more so how I would be without, without kids. But you kind of have to adapt when they're waking up, crack down every day, adapt or die. And to die longest.
01;14;27;00 - 01;14;55;06
Unknown
For the longest time, our oldest would get up between 6 and 630 every single day. He was wide awake, so yeah. Okay. So we were wanting to talk about. Yeah. So yeah. Now in the editing. Yeah. So we were, we were who was it? JK one of your buddies asked the question about or was it just something we decided we wanted to talk about was somebody asked, was it.
01;14;55;12 - 01;15;14;11
Unknown
Oh, was it Grace? That might have been one of my buddies. I don't remember what the question was though. Well, we decided we wanted to talk about how to, like, figure out if how to figure out if it's finding editors and finding good editors. Yeah. Yes. How to find a good editor, which was at least vaguely related to something somebody asked us.
01;15;14;11 - 01;15;19;20
Unknown
So yes, yes. I was like, okay, now that you mention it.
01;15;19;22 - 01;15;39;11
Unknown
Better to answer that question than the resident editor. Yes, this might be kind of rough because none of us have worked with an editor. I am an editor, but getting it from the other side, which is probably where most of our audience will, will, will live or will hopefully live is a little bit ish. So I did some reading to get ready for today.
01;15;39;11 - 01;16;08;19
Unknown
I did see that article. Really good article. Jane. Gosh. Freedman Jane freeman.com. Go check it out. Go check out my Facebook posts. But and it kind of confirmed a lot of things I was already thinking about, but it's still good to read. Number one, be careful. Like there's some shady characters out there who will say they'll read your book, or they'll edit your book for, you know, the amount of money you would usually cost.
01;16;08;21 - 01;16;30;09
Unknown
Edit your book, but they will do a good job and they'll basically take your money. You won't get, the good stuff back. So be careful. There's some things you can do to kind of see if they're legit. Basically. Like they should have a portfolio. They should have maybe their own podcast talking about writing. You should hire that guy.
01;16;30;12 - 01;16;49;17
Unknown
You should hire, I'm sure there's some editor out there with somebody with a podcast about writing groups. And then they should, they should. And every editor will have different definitions for each of these, but they should have listed on their site, or they should tell you, like, what they kind of specialize in, what type of editing they specialize in, I should say.
01;16;49;17 - 01;17;22;10
Unknown
So you've got developmental editing, which is kind of like getting the story to jive. It's kind of like what we're doing for each other. On a more intensive level, like making sure that character character arcs are driving. It can show the plot is is going along at a nice pace. Stuff like that. Big picture stuff that I'm really interested in doing, the stuff that I don't necessarily have a ton of experience outside of my creative writing class, where I have the basically developmental editing, editing for dozens and dozens since, and for these guys and, and lots of other friends and stuff like that.
01;17;22;10 - 01;17;47;09
Unknown
But, it's also the most expensive kind because it's probably the most important. You really want to have a developmental editor before you're even done with your book, because, you know, you might go off in one direction and then they'll they'll tell you like, hey, maybe I should, I should take in this direction. And that kind of sucks, even though even if they're right, which, if they're good, they probably are right that they'll work better to, to take things in a different direction.
01;17;47;09 - 01;18;10;05
Unknown
So, if you have the budget for it kind of be working with a developmental editor as you're writing. Then there's line editing, which is kind of more, a little bit more on the micro level or like completely on the macro level yet. But it's getting your voice right, making sure that you're coming across the way you want to come across, you know, what we're doing.
01;18;10;05 - 01;18;38;09
Unknown
You know, sci fi fantasy, you'll have a vibe, and you want to keep that vibe essentially throughout the whole book. Nonfiction, of course you'll have. Or maybe a more academic tone or something like that, and they'll help you with that. Then copy editing, which is where I have the most experience and the most training, that's the grammatical side that's making sure that all of your eyes are dotted and your cues are Q is accused.
01;18;38;09 - 01;19;03;14
Unknown
Aren't part of that saying, is it? I forgot it in Teaser cross. Yes. I promise I'm at least moderately intelligent. So the grammatical side is making sure during business hours I I'm on point. Which I do edit with, I do edit, I do it in the morning. So my brain is working. So keep that in mind.
01;19;03;17 - 01;19;23;11
Unknown
But obviously that's super important. You don't want to come across as unprofessional. And a copy editor will basically help you with that in any, any kind of writing that you're doing. And then the difference between that and proofreading is basically a proofreading is after you have things like ready for publication, like it's like like the last pass before you publish it.
01;19;23;14 - 01;19;46;24
Unknown
So with books, you should be already have had a typesetter, or maybe your editor will do the typesetting for you if they know what they're doing there. I have a little bit of experience with that. But then they'll just go through one last time, make sure, cuz they're squished and PS are. Finished the sentence I don't I don't want to.
01;19;46;27 - 01;20;08;01
Unknown
But basically, we're looking at others. They should they should be really up front of them about what they're actually good at. Like hopefully I was right there was talk about how I don't necessarily have professional training yet. I'm about to take a class, start a class next week on developmental editing. But they should be really up front about what they're especially good at and stuff like that.
01;20;08;03 - 01;20;34;15
Unknown
Sample edits slightly controversial in the editing community just because it's extra work for editors. But really, as a writer, you probably will want a sample edit. The only time you wouldn't necessarily need one is if they have a really, In-depth example on their in their portfolio of something in the same genre as you, and you could kind of see their stock as a sample.
01;20;34;19 - 01;21;06;15
Unknown
It is kind of to see, you know, no more on that. They can do their job. And number two, that you guys will drive together because there's a bajillion writers, there's a bajillion editors, and you want to find people who will will mesh well with your style. Yeah. To be clear, Tyler, a sample edit what you're referring to is when you actually submit a very small snippet of your writing that they actually then will edit as if it were the home, which doesn't work super well for developmental editing because developmental editing is more big picture.
01;21;06;15 - 01;21;37;16
Unknown
They kind of need to see your whole manuscript, so it's really hard to get, sample edit like that. But yeah. So I'll, I'll do like a free sample of like a thousand words or so more than that. And I kind of want to get paid for my time. Still, still have it. Still counting as a sample edit, but but, if you want to get a better picture of what an editor can do and you going to have a longer snippet also with that, editors really want your rough stuff.
01;21;37;16 - 01;21;58;01
Unknown
They want to be able to get, a good view on what they'll actually have to be doing. Yeah. Go to bed, buddy. I love you. I know it's daytime. Do it. I will become too busy and go away. Go away. We've had, my kids and or one of the my kids and Jake's kids on the podcast.
01;21;58;09 - 01;22;19;23
Unknown
All right? Yeah. Rough stuff. So don't necessarily send them your first chapters, because those are the ones that are probably mostly polished. Like I just went out, hopefully out my bedrolls for the rest of the podcast. Oh, man. I like no, it's not because the lamp still working, just that light. He turned the light off as he left.
01;22;19;23 - 01;22;53;03
Unknown
That's what happened. For us to have and save electricity. So, like, I love you. That was. That was confusing for a second. As, Well, like, That's funny. Oh, my gosh. Third time I'm going to get this out. Given, like, your middle chapters because they want to see, like, their least polished stuff, which is typically for your middle chapters because, you know, first, first, first chapters, you're going to have polished probably a lot, probably of your last chapters is what can go off with the bang.
01;22;53;05 - 01;23;12;11
Unknown
That's not so much on on finding good editor as, as being good for your editor, which is also important. Yeah. Last thing. Just just know that it's expensive. We put a lot of the time we to just put a lot of time into your book or your story or whatever, and we can't do that for not getting paid for you all.
01;23;12;11 - 01;23;37;25
Unknown
So is there, like, a standardized rate, Tyler? Like, they're their editors. Not necessarily like universal standardized. But if you go on to the FAA website, the Editorial Freelancers Association, which I'm a member of, they have kind of like your typical rates. Most editors will will have a, have a set rate for what they charge per word.
01;23;37;28 - 01;23;59;02
Unknown
So obviously if you have longer manuscripts, so after you'll be expected to pay more. And it kind of sucks when an author comes in be like, hey, I've got this 90,000 word manuscript. Can you edit it for 50 bucks? It's no, I can't, I guess. No, no. So I guess it's kind of turned into how to find a good editor and also had it be good for your editor.
01;23;59;04 - 01;24;28;02
Unknown
What is also important? Yeah, that's something, I think all writers really need to also be trained is how to make things easier on your editor. Make sure that they can actually help you as a writer, be better as a writer, because that's their that's their whole job, is to make sure that they're helping you be good at what you do, to be able to tell the best story that you can between the two of you.
01;24;28;05 - 01;24;52;22
Unknown
And I a my on my side of things. I'll go back to the old reliable of go to a writers conference. I mean, we have the Bear Lake Writers Conference. Christy Pinkston is a indie author and an editor. And she teaches edit classes on editing. And Brianna Call, was it the last one? And teaching your class on editing?
01;24;52;22 - 01;25;03;12
Unknown
I'm going to do my best at the next time Christy wants a class on editing to make Tyler do it, I asked Tyler to do it.
01;25;03;14 - 01;25;06;22
Unknown
Just because.
01;25;06;25 - 01;25;44;06
Unknown
There's a there's this disconnect sometimes between a writer and editor. And again, some people have skewed perceptions of what editors do or don't do or can do or should do or what have you. And, and I admit freely that I was one of those people. I had a, skewed perception from editors, so make sure you're, you're doing your homework to be a good writer, for an editor to, about all I've got on that.
01;25;44;09 - 01;26;04;27
Unknown
And, I'll throw my $0.02. Really just passing along some wisdom that I've heard from other writers. None of which I've had a chance to work out in terms of hiring any of these guys for my own, manuscript yet, obviously. But, so a couple of those, it just be realize that there is, of course, a sequence to those editors.
01;26;04;29 - 01;26;27;06
Unknown
You want the dev editor first because they're going to do the big picture, and then you work your way down to the microscopic from there. You're not going to start with getting rid of typos, because if you do that first and then you hire dev editor after you've you think you've cleaned up your manuscripts, you're just going to create more, more messes that then have to be re cleaned up by another copy editor.
01;26;27;08 - 01;26;47;01
Unknown
And I've heard that, you typically want a different editor who's wearing a different hat for each of those specific job. So if I hire, Tracy to be my developmental editor, I probably don't want her to be my copy editor. I probably want to hire Tyler or someone else, for that particular job, and so on and so forth.
01;26;47;07 - 01;27;07;04
Unknown
Not to say that's like the unbreakable rule, but just some conventional wisdom is definitely the ideal. Yeah, yeah. The more eyes on your work because we've all missed, you know, I've, I've read my manuscript the first like five chapters a million times and I've missed the same typo that these guys caught their first pass through. It's just more eyes.
01;27;07;06 - 01;27;31;18
Unknown
Because we're all human. They miss stuff, too. You, And then, like, a good editor, will help you maintain your voice. Like, not just, I mean, the tone of the genre, for sure, but also your tone. You know? You know, we're not all going to sound the same unless you're using AI to use your writing. And then I would even say, I think that, Tyler's too humble to say this, but offer to pay for that sample edit.
01;27;31;21 - 01;27;50;18
Unknown
That that thousand words. That was a time investment on their end. And that's that's you as a professional putting your best foot forward, in your first part of your negotiation of this relationship, potentially with someone that you could have helping you for your whole career, you know, you can, I it's terms of how to find an editor.
01;27;50;18 - 01;28;08;00
Unknown
If you feel like you've tracked down a couple of good ones, you could even just have, like, a tryout stage, like, okay, let me pay for, like, three different sample edits of the exact same section of my book, the middle chapters, and see what they come back with. And I don't know, you could go that route. And I mean, obviously you'd be shelling out a lot.
01;28;08;02 - 01;28;25;11
Unknown
Yeah. Realize that you're it's a value for value, and what you're paying for is worth it. In terms of the quality you're going to receive back in the books that you're going to receive back, novel writing, it feels like a one man show compared to other art forms, like making a film or making music sometimes.
01;28;25;14 - 01;28;42;01
Unknown
But just because you're not in a band doesn't mean that even if you're up there just singing acapella, that you're not having someone, you know get the mic ready for you and double checking the sound and all that good stuff. To stress that metaphor as far as it'll go. Hey, at least he kept it as the same metaphor.
01;28;42;04 - 01;29;07;22
Unknown
Yeah. When you feel like blowing up a piece, puzzle. Yeah. So none of those are hard and fast rules, but those are just suggestions that I've heard that have worked for others. Yeah. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Should we plug some stuff? Sure. Let's do it. Right. What you got going on, Tyler? Yeah, I was about to say.
01;29;07;22 - 01;29;35;16
Unknown
We'll start with the editor. Yeah, sure. Hairstylist blogger.com. That's where I have, part of my portfolio and then a bunch of articles and and different stuff that I've got going on. So go check me out there. I was always JC by.com. That's where you can get, I'm pretty sure I have all my books. I got a double, double check and make sure I got my most recent one I think I did.
01;29;35;19 - 01;29;56;26
Unknown
It's one of the joys of being self-published is you have to do all the work yourself, and sometimes things get missed. So yeah, JC baby.com, that's where you're going to find most of the stuff. You can follow me on, a few of the socials. Yeah. I'll direct you guys over to my new shiny website, Gray Elder books.com.
01;29;56;28 - 01;30;18;07
Unknown
And by the time this podcast airs, all of the links will be functional on that website. He promises. Yeah, it's my, gray elder guarantee. Yeah. So I have a way for you to sign up for my email list. And from there, you can get a free novelette extension, basically a really long short story. The one that you got.
01;30;18;07 - 01;30;41;05
Unknown
These guys have made a bleak references about, before, like, oh, this world. Oh, that's dangerous, that's cool bro. So get hyped. Nice. Awesome, nice. Yeah. Thank you guys for listening. Yeah. I feel like there's been a lot of knowledge, shared on this episode in particular. Yeah. This is a good one. Yep. Okay. Love you.
01;30;41;05 - 01;30;43;04
Unknown
Bye bye. For.