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Best Beginnings is the podcast for everyone working in or caring about the early years. Hosted by George Looker, CEO of Babyzone, each episode brings together leading researchers, clinicians, practitioners, policymakers and parents to explore the evidence, ideas and innovations shaping how we support children and families in the UK.
From infant mental health and attachment to workforce challenges and systems change, Best Beginnings goes beyond the headlines to have the conversations that matter most in early childhood.
New episodes drop every Tuesday.
Best Beginnings is brought to you by Babyzone, a national charity operating free, evidence-based family hubs across England for families with children aged 0–5.
00:00:00:02 - 00:00:23:23
Unknown
At Baby Zone. We see the impact of early years policy not in statistics but in people in the parent who can't get a health visitor appointment. In the two year old that's never had a developmental check in, the family referred to five different services that don't talk to each other. We see what happens when the system works, and we see far too often what happens when it doesn't.
00:00:24:04 - 00:00:45:00
Unknown
My guest today represents the think tank that's arguably doing more than anyone right now to hold the government to account on children's outcomes and to build the evidence for what works. The center for Young Lives was founded by Baroness and Longfield, the former Children's Commissioner for England, and in just over a year, it's become one of the most influential voices in the UK children's policy.
00:00:45:01 - 00:01:20:03
Unknown
Its research has directly shaped the government's Young Futures program, its school readiness targets and the rollout of Best Start family hubs. Its state of the nation report exposed to scale of childhood vulnerability 4.5 million children in poverty. Mental health problems doubled since 2017. Any visits among under-fives up 40% in a decade. Anna is the center's policy researcher and early years lead and one of the lead authors of the landmark Best Start report, which shows that joined up family support now receives less than a quarter of the funding it received at the peak of shore start.
00:01:20:05 - 00:01:26:13
Unknown
This is a conversation about what the evidence says, what children need and what stands between them and getting
00:01:26:19 - 00:01:52:02
Unknown
Anna, welcome to Best Beginnings. Thank you for joining me. Much for having me. So as I said, the center for Young Lives have been going for just over two years, and it's already shaping government policy in a great way. And obviously, you're kind of research and your model has become the basis for some of the government's policy agenda based on young futures and school readiness for people that don't already know the center.
00:01:52:03 - 00:01:56:07
Unknown
What are you trying to do and why did an feel the need, feel the need for it to exist?
00:01:56:11 - 00:02:12:04
Unknown
Yeah. So the center for Young Lives was it came off the back of the Commission on Young Lives, which was a year long commission. That was from 2019 to 2020, which looked at how you create systems that really prevent crisis happening in young people.
00:02:12:04 - 00:02:24:08
Unknown
So there are a series of dramatic reports, including mental health, young people involved in the criminal justice system and how you create national policy, but also local systems that prevent that escalation from happening.
00:02:24:08 - 00:02:34:18
Unknown
And so from there, that has sort of directed a lot of the work that we did at center. So we cover quite a broad range of policy for children and young people aged naught, 25.
00:02:34:19 - 00:02:45:15
Unknown
So the full age range, which is obviously quite broad. So things like play, we had a play commission that launched its final report last year, which called for national praise, among other things.
00:02:45:17 - 00:03:06:06
Unknown
But then from everything to inclusive education, mental health, but throughout, there's sort of a golden thread throughout our work which really focuses on not just, you know, every I mean, obviously we want every young person to thrive, but particularly a focus on those children and young people who face additional barriers to, you know, reaching their full potential, achieving, thriving throughout life.
00:03:06:08 - 00:03:25:00
Unknown
And so, you know, children from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, children from certain ethnic minority backgrounds, but then also children with send adverse childhood experiences, that is a really particular focus that we try and close some of those gaps that might be there in terms of outcomes between those those children
00:03:25:04 - 00:03:42:21
Unknown
Fascinating and really important work. And I mean, your state of the nation report painted a really stark picture, 4.5 million children in poverty, 160,000 in temporary accommodation, mental health problems, as you mentioned, and visits going up and the pandemic also casting a long shadow.
00:03:42:22 - 00:03:49:09
Unknown
When you look at that picture, what's your honest read for how we're doing as a country?
00:03:49:11 - 00:04:05:11
Unknown
I mean, it's not great. Like I think any number of children who are facing those vulnerabilities is not great. Obviously, we want we want, in an ideal world, every child, young person to have a safe upbringing, to be able to access full potential.
00:04:05:13 - 00:04:26:08
Unknown
And, you know, the pandemic really, I mean, it hit everyone hard. It was a global pandemic. It's not we're not alone in facing those challenges. I think, you know, and obviously been a huge kind of figure in this. But the government response to the pandemic was children were really left, left out of that. They were an afterthought. You know, the schools being closed while bars were opening.
00:04:26:08 - 00:04:30:06
Unknown
And we're starting to see the impact of that.
00:04:30:06 - 00:04:53:22
Unknown
I think this government, in all honesty, has got it there feels like there's a step change in especially like being a children and young person's think tank. We feel like there is, you know, a desire, sort of a momentum around this, this sort of area and shifting the narrative to early intervention prevention and inherently that has a focus on children and young people.
00:04:53:22 - 00:04:55:04
Unknown
That's really welcome. So,
00:04:55:04 - 00:05:00:09
Unknown
there's there's a long way to go. But I think we are starting to sort of turn into the right direction.
00:05:00:11 - 00:05:14:21
Unknown
I heard Minister Bailey actually talking at the Nesta offices last week and thinking about the ambition that the government has. And I agree with you. It's laudable in terms of what they're aspiring to achieve in a relatively short time frame
00:05:14:21 - 00:05:24:16
Unknown
and thinking about that pledge to get 75% of children up to a good level of development by 2028, we're obviously currently only at around 68%.
00:05:24:21 - 00:05:42:23
Unknown
And your analysis shows that we're only growing at sort of one percentage point a year. So I'm trying to think about my maths. It feels like it might not be reachable. So you know, what does the current gap mean for families. And I guess what are you suggesting or pointing the government towards doing in order to close that gap further?
00:05:43:03 - 00:05:59:14
Unknown
So I think like as you said, the target is really welcome. I think targets like that, like they align thinking they align efforts at like a national and a local scale. So that really, really welcome. But yeah, as you said, it is a short term target. And for lots of local authorities that we've been talking to have been set their own targets.
00:05:59:20 - 00:06:02:21
Unknown
It's it's you know, it's a big it's a big jump.
00:06:02:21 - 00:06:17:04
Unknown
I think from, from, you know what the way we're viewing it, I think the way that the Department of Education is trying to sort of set it out is it's about setting that high ambition. But, you know, it's a longer term, but we hope it to be a longer term goal.
00:06:17:05 - 00:06:37:07
Unknown
And so what we're doing in some of our work around the school readiness target is thinking about how we can take this moment of like momentum that's been created by this school school readiness target and a sort of focus from government and how we can use that momentum to, like, maximize the target and really transform for the longer term, the earlier system.
00:06:37:07 - 00:07:36:23
Unknown
So not just thinking about, you know, these children are be turning 5 in 2028, but thinking about, you know, the children that we're turning 5 in 10 years and then 20 years, and how you can use this moment of focus in the early years to to make long term transformation to, to the support that
00:07:37:00 - 00:07:40:13
Unknown
I think it's interesting. I think like overall it's a great measure.
00:07:40:13 - 00:08:04:14
Unknown
I think it does sort of hide maybe some of the nuances that local authorities are facing in terms of their demographics. But also, you know, we know that for children would send and complex need, you know, some of them are never going to reach that that good level of development. So the question I think is, you know, do we set a sort of do we think about what else can measure their sort of their outcomes and, you know, the challenges they face?
00:08:04:14 - 00:08:28:09
Unknown
There isn't a good level of development. And again, for children with English as an additional language. But also I think I mean, this is captured in the data. Some of the gaps between the different groups I think is really important. And, you know, government has set that additional target of also increasing the number of children eligible for free school meals in line with the overall improvement and good level development.
00:08:28:09 - 00:08:32:02
Unknown
But I think what would have been welcome is to see them really aiming to close that
00:08:32:04 - 00:08:47:06
Unknown
and so target some of that support to children who from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, I think would have been welcome, but that is obviously capturing the data, and it would be something interesting to follow, because we saw that over the last two years, that gap between children added for free school meals and children who aren't.
00:08:47:11 - 00:08:52:10
Unknown
That did widen and is quite concerning trend in terms of closing that gap would be
00:08:52:12 - 00:09:05:15
Unknown
I also read your fascinating report about the Child of the North in that research, and around how the regional disparities in some of this, too. And then, you know, I said, dad, I've got three kids under the age of five, two boys and a girl.
00:09:05:15 - 00:09:15:08
Unknown
And it was interesting kind of looking at the the difference between boys and girls, as well as the free school meals and children who are on sort of two.
00:09:15:14 - 00:09:28:01
Unknown
So there's some really big divergences in these different groups. What do you think is driving them? What do you think is making these challenges as systemic as they obviously are?
00:09:28:04 - 00:09:41:17
Unknown
Yeah, I think, you know, when you take something like a child eligible for a free school meal, what what that might not say on the surface is, you know, we know that disadvantage is baked in from the earliest possible moment.
00:09:41:17 - 00:10:16:03
Unknown
And so with that comes several additional barriers that a child will face. And, you know, circumstances of the family which hold them back at each step. And so without that targeted intervention, and I think especially with this target, while it's welcome what it risks is local authorities focusing on those children who are really close to meeting that target, you know, maybe have one area of learning whereas and it disincentivize some of that longer term work that needs to be done to support those children who are facing multiple barriers or who are much further away from reaching a good love of development.
00:10:16:03 - 00:10:36:07
Unknown
And I think, you know, it's it's I think it takes a lot more work, a lot more funding, a lot more long term planning to address some of those inequalities. And with this target and, you know, sort of the nature of short term funding and, you know, political cycle that can often be overlooked, and I think to the detriment of some of those groups who would benefit from longer term support.
00:10:36:09 - 00:10:55:05
Unknown
And that's something that we think long and hard about is how to reach those who are, by definition, the most vulnerable that need the most support, but also because they are the hardest to get to sometimes and the hardest to to find. So how do you think the government could augment or what other sort of activities services should we be thinking about?
00:10:55:06 - 00:11:06:14
Unknown
Not just for those that might be on the cusp of that 75% definition for good level, but further away, what other interventions do we need to be doing in a more joined up
00:11:06:20 - 00:11:16:17
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, I will bang the drum of family hubs till the end of time. Whether it's in a nature of having worked with an and her experience working with the rollout of Shore Start.
00:11:16:17 - 00:11:40:17
Unknown
But I think services like joined up family support. So children's centers, family hubs, I mean obviously universal elements, but also they are really they can act as sort of an anchor in a in a community. And I think the part about the point you make about reaching families and reaching those, those families who might be facing additional barriers, you know, we need to be taking the support.
00:11:40:17 - 00:12:03:16
Unknown
And that's something that a minister has been saying. We need to be taking the support to where children are. They're not they may not be turning up at the doors of services or the doors of family hubs. So I think whatever intervention, there's so much evidence on what interventions work and what down. That's not not my area of expertise, but in terms of delivering the interventions, it's important that families who need are accessing them.
00:12:03:16 - 00:12:20:18
Unknown
And I think that should be the next focus point for government and local areas as they roll out these best start family hubs, best start local plans. They need to make sure that the services they do have are reaching the families that are most in need of that support, and I think there are some great recommendations of things like community.
00:12:20:20 - 00:12:43:10
Unknown
Community navigator rolls out, you know, using the sort of voluntary sector. We know there's so many great voluntary sector organizations out there delivering support for for young children, work with those, work with the local services that you have with the schools, essentially join up the system of support for young for young children to close some of those gaps that some children, unfortunately are falling through at the minute.
00:12:43:13 - 00:13:05:11
Unknown
Yeah, absolutely. It's building that coalition, isn't it? Of local partners, local voluntary organizations and the government and statutory bodies under one roof. And that's obviously, again, what we're trying to emulate across our eight hubs that are currently open, but obviously further across the UK as we continue to grow. I'd love to talk more about the example you shared just now on Shore Start.
00:13:05:12 - 00:13:16:24
Unknown
We know that Shore Start worked. IFS evidence showed that multiple things reducing hospitalizations, improving GCSE outcomes and had its strongest impact on the most disadvantaged.
00:13:16:24 - 00:13:42:07
Unknown
And your own report found it decreases the possibility of having a kind of by 9% by age 16. So that's extraordinary. The impact it was having yet it was dismantled. What does that kind of story tell us about how evidence works in this space, and how can we make sure that the next generation of children, this generation of children, don't get overridden?
00:13:42:07 - 00:13:42:11
Unknown
00:13:42:13 - 00:14:04:07
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, I think those those IFS evaluations, I mean, I think people working in this space, we know the benefits of support like that, but it's really, really helpful to have that hard evidence to be able to say, look, this is these are the benefits to the to the, the child and the young person, but also to the economy, which can often nab the of government better than anything else.
00:14:04:07 - 00:14:28:19
Unknown
But I think having that evidence to show is really, really beneficial, especially as we have a government who's more open to sort of interventions like that. I think in terms of how it was completely dismantled from 2010. It just goes to show and and it's something we recommended in our report on Best Start family hubs, we've called for government to consider putting Best Start family hubs onto into law.
00:14:28:20 - 00:14:55:03
Unknown
So essentially the next government that comes along can't just take away that support for children and families. And I think not just for having longer term funding, giving local authorities the, the, the chance to to do long term planning for that support, but for children and families and communities, for parents who are looking for that support, having that support for the long term in your community so you can see it, you know, you become familiar with it.
00:14:55:05 - 00:15:02:19
Unknown
And not being worried that at the end of the next funding cycle, it's going to be completely dismantled and you'll have nothing left, I think is really important. So I think for
00:15:02:21 - 00:15:09:08
Unknown
embedding some of that support into legislation, so it can't be dismantled in the way it was and the way that shore start was is really important.
00:15:09:12 - 00:15:30:03
Unknown
And these things take such a long time don't they. And it's yeah, we we know that people that work in this space understand the impact. They understand the outcomes. It's how we can best articulate them. So I couldn't agree more with what you said and also interested you picked up on your own report around the best start family hubs and the principles by which you want those hubs to work.
00:15:30:09 - 00:15:52:15
Unknown
So you've got a single front door family voices being heard. Having them embedded within community isn't easy to reach, as well as kind of high quality and with school partnerships. And again, we try and emulate a lot of that at Baby Zone. I guess when you're looking at what's working on the ground. What are the common ingredients you've seen in terms of a successful family hub?
00:15:52:15 - 00:15:57:01
Unknown
What is it that you'd like to see in all of them, as the government continues to roll them out across the
00:15:57:03 - 00:16:06:10
Unknown
country? Yeah. So I mean, there's a couple of things. And, and as they roll out these new ones that, I mean, the hope is that they don't just run roughshod over all the great practice that is happening out there.
00:16:06:11 - 00:16:24:12
Unknown
I think some of the key things that I know, there's there's constantly a discussion about co-located services. So, you know, a parent can go in to go to the, you know, stay and play service, but then, you know, can drop in on a health visitor or a health professional. And I think there is definitely a lot of benefit in that.
00:16:24:12 - 00:17:00:20
Unknown
And it helps with that sort of joined up, one single front door approach. But I think and this will be in the sort of backgrounds less so for the for the parents, but that join up in terms of data. And it's quite like a boring point. But I think joining up between schools earlier settings like children's services and health will, you know, it will stop families happening to turn up at every different service and say, this is my story, and then go to another service and say, this is my story again, you know, it gives them that sort of seamless transition between services, of which family hubs are such a core part in the middle.
00:17:00:23 - 00:17:33:02
Unknown
But, I mean, there's and it's not to say that, you know, a hub is just a hub. I think another key part of family hubs is having those sort of spokes out into the community and connections with the earlier settings. You know, we know that in England, the majority of earlier settings as PVI settings. And so, you know, it's slightly harder to sort of ensure that the quality and, you know, the, the earliest curriculum, etc. is being taught in a way that joins up with the rest of the sort of education system.
00:17:33:02 - 00:17:45:05
Unknown
So I think building those relationships into the community not only helps reach children and families, but ensures like a sort of consistent amount of support for every child, no matter where they're asking for support or what support they're asking for.
00:17:45:11 - 00:17:52:07
Unknown
And and we find that in order to get to those families that are hardest to reach, we operate a barrier less approach.
00:17:52:07 - 00:18:14:12
Unknown
So babies own parent is only ask their first name and their postcode when they arrive. And we fully kind of adhere to a universal model and a universal approach to supporting families. And I guess it's in part of the mix that you'd look for with great family hubs and great provision in this space. What are the other kind of key ingredients?
00:18:14:12 - 00:18:28:13
Unknown
Are the things that you'd look for from a policy perspective of the government to be saying to local authorities or other organizations that are running these facilities, running these support services, what do you want to see them doing? How do you want to see them operating?
00:18:28:13 - 00:18:37:14
Unknown
Yeah. So I think the government has been you know, they've said that they want to be their their focus as home learning environment and parenting support, which are really great.
00:18:37:15 - 00:19:03:07
Unknown
Like we know those two things that really make a difference I think for what's delivered from a hub. I mean, I think that some of those universal activities stay in play. You know, parent, infant, relationship, support type, type things are really important. We know that like, it's important not just for, you know, the families accessing it, but it removes the sort of stigma that can often sit around family hubs and like accessing family help or local services.
00:19:03:07 - 00:19:29:06
Unknown
And we also know that, you know, mixing up some of those services together. So, you know, putting a health professional in with the stay and play, it's like it just makes it more of like a if I think it becomes less daunting to the parents who are visiting. And I mean, I went to see a baby zone, I think the white City baby zone and so really got a good sense of like and I think a lot of that like just the atmosphere, all the different activities that were going on.
00:19:29:09 - 00:19:39:20
Unknown
I think having that like a welcoming atmosphere, it sounds really simple, but like a welcoming place that someone who might not know anyone in the community might be new, might have never accessed. Support, I think, is really, really important.
00:19:40:00 - 00:19:53:01
Unknown
Yeah, we hear so much about postnatal isolation and mums in particular, struggling to find friends in the community post-pandemic and really reengaging them with other people that are going through the same thing again.
00:19:53:02 - 00:20:25:18
Unknown
A repeated question we get is about children's development. Is my child on track? Are we doing the right thing? You know, and it's a universal concern around, you know, feeding properly. Is there a, you know, mental health challenge that you might be facing? And I guess all of these questions straddle both health and early years as well. And I know that in your report, you've also called for greater unity, greater communication between the Department for health and the deaf in terms of the investment in family hubs,
00:20:25:21 - 00:20:29:10
Unknown
why do you think health is so crucial and critical to make this all
00:20:29:15 - 00:20:29:23
Unknown
work?
00:20:29:24 - 00:20:56:14
Unknown
I mean, I think like before that in that naught two space in particular, the role of health professionals, I mean even pre pre preconception is so important. And as you say, there's so much information out there for, for expectant mothers or for new mothers or new parents that having that sort of trusted health professional just to even point you in the direction of some really sound advice or give you that, you know, these are the things you should be thinking about.
00:20:56:15 - 00:21:18:11
Unknown
This is where you can go for this support, signposting you to and especially if you have, you know, a baby with who's been flagged might have additional needs that I think is so important. And that comes before, you know, the child has put into an earlier setting. And so that support from two and, you know, there's all of that evidence about the importance of that 1001 days and sort of getting it right there.
00:21:18:11 - 00:21:21:05
Unknown
But also, you know, across naught five is really, really important.
00:21:21:08 - 00:21:39:00
Unknown
I think having that join up, I mean, we see and especially with this government, there's been a lot of focus from the Department for education, which has been hugely welcome, less so from the Department of Health. I mean, we know that they've got lots in their plate, but I think having that join up, it trickles down to a local level.
00:21:39:01 - 00:21:56:12
Unknown
You know, we're constantly asking schools to join up with health at a local level. What would be really helpful is to see that sort of that being, you know, emanated at the top, but also in terms of funding. I mean, we know that some of the health services that are delivered in the early years are more like on the expensive side.
00:21:56:12 - 00:22:19:13
Unknown
And, you know, it's making it increasingly challenging. We know there's workforce issues in the sort of early years health space. So a bit of renewed long term investment and ambition from Department of Health on the role of and that's something we're looking at in a future report would be really, really welcome in terms of joining up that workforce at a local level and making it sort of a seamless approach to support.
00:22:19:13 - 00:22:25:13
Unknown
There you go. Well, if anyone's listening from the Department of Health, they'll hopefully hear that that call that you've made today.
00:22:25:17 - 00:22:29:04
Unknown
I've got a few quick fire questions for you. That's all right.
00:22:29:04 - 00:22:41:09
Unknown
So is there one thing that you think every parent listening? We've spoken a lot about policy and a lot about the government and everything else. What do you think the parent should be thinking about the system and especially what the system isn't telling them at the moment?
00:22:41:14 - 00:23:03:05
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, I think part of that is like you are your child's first teacher. Like there's there is support out there and really you should go and access it. But I think, you know, parents these days incredibly busy, we all know that. But I think maximizing that time that you spend with your child, even if it's just a bit of time after school or whatever it is, is really important.
00:23:03:05 - 00:23:11:03
Unknown
But then, you know, that's sort of like a precursor to accessing support, I think is is really important. So maximizing that time that you spend with your child
00:23:11:06 - 00:23:24:00
Unknown
And if you could get access to Excel spreadsheet at the Treasury ahead of the next spending review and insert your own line item. What would that line item be and how much would it
00:23:24:03 - 00:23:24:10
Unknown
cost?
00:23:24:11 - 00:23:50:15
Unknown
I mean, that's easy. We called for in our report scaling up of joined up family support. So it would be slightly different now because we've had the commitment to our best start family hubs. But we want a scaled up investment into joint family sport. I think we are called for 1.2 billion for this spending review period in total, so I don't know what that would look like in terms of the document, but also that would be scaled up then to 2.2 billion in year nine.
00:23:50:15 - 00:23:58:24
Unknown
So we're not asking for much, but we are asking for a bit more investment into into the new best family hubs to make sure they're really impactful.
00:23:59:04 - 00:24:06:10
Unknown
and we've spoken a lot about the challenges today because there are a lot of challenges, but there's obviously room for optimism, room for hope.
00:24:06:11 - 00:24:10:10
Unknown
What gives you the most hope when thinking about early is policy at the moment,
00:24:10:12 - 00:24:32:14
Unknown
I think to be honest, this government has there is a lot of good to be hopeful about, and I think that they're they're sort of getting there, sort of starting to understand after decades and decades of, you know, there being a lack of focus on the early years. They seem to be understanding not only the importance of that support 0 to 5, but the long term benefits that come from that.
00:24:32:15 - 00:24:44:11
Unknown
I mean, it seems like the sector has finally been successful in saying, look, if you get it right here, you can unlock potential in this space, in this space, in this space. And I think that that has been really welcome. And hopefully we'll continue.
00:24:44:11 - 00:24:50:17
Unknown
And if there was one myth that you'd like to bust about early years policy or about this space, is there anything in particular?
00:24:50:23 - 00:25:05:14
Unknown
I think one of the myths I would bust is that shore start was less effective because you had it was sort of taken up by middle class families and so therefore wasn't targeting who it should have been targeting, which I think is not the case. And I think we'll see that our best our family hubs as well.
00:25:05:16 - 00:25:28:21
Unknown
Thank you so much for joining us. It's really, really important the work that you're doing and the conversation that you're leading in this space and the influence that you're obviously exerting on the Department for education, the Treasury and the Department for health as well. And we welcome all of the reports that you're writing and obviously look forward to seeing future releases in in the coming months.
00:25:28:21 - 00:25:43:14
Unknown
And obviously, we hope that Babies Zone to help inform some of the evidence that you're gathering and and work with you as you're continuing to see what works and see what we can amplify and spread across the country. So thank you so much for joining me today. Thank you.
00:25:43:14 - 00:25:59:18
Unknown
What I'm taking from this conversation is something I think every parent deserves to know. What your child experiences in these first five years isn't just about you and them. It's about the decisions made in Whitehall, in local authority budget meetings and in the offices of integrated care boards.
00:25:59:20 - 00:26:29:05
Unknown
The conditions for a child's development are shaped by those policy choices, and those choices have been for too long, the wrong ones. At Baby Zone, we see every day what happens when families have the right support at the right time, and we see what happens when they don't. The research that Anna and her colleagues are doing, tracking the gaps, naming the failures, building the evidence for what works matters because it gives all of us the language and the data to demand better.
00:26:29:07 - 00:26:39:11
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The 75% good level of development target is a start, but Anna has made clear getting to 75 means nothing. If the 25% who need it most get the
00:26:39:13 - 00:26:53:01
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If you remember one thing from this episode, good policy for the early years isn't a luxury. It's the foundation and the gap between what we know works and what we actually fund is a choice, and a choice that can be made or unmade.
00:26:53:04 - 00:27:09:22
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Anna, thank you so much for joining me, and thank you for listening to. Best beginnings, A Baby's Own podcast. For more evidence informed support on babies and the early years, subscribe to this channel. If you found this helpful. Share it with someone you think might need it. We'll see you next time.