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What matters most?
Who am I serving?
Am I making a difference?
And what’s the cost?
Through in depth conversations with a wide range of guests, Solving for Joy explores the idea that we are always trying to solve life's equation for maximal joy. We'll discover what constants are actually variables we can change and have a lot of laughs along the way. Dr. Chrissie Ott brings a coaching lens, experience in healthcare, entrepreneurship and creativity to the table. We hope this podcast is a tool for many to reclaim delight in their own personal and professional lives!
Anne Pendo (00:00)
What matters most? Who am I serving? Am I making a difference? And what's the cost?
One of the things that surprised me the most is that I didn't miss it. I was so in. I was like 200% in and my heart was really there. And to be able to say goodbye with grace and dignity and exit and not…
Chrissie Ott MD (00:19)
Yeah.
Anne Pendo (00:31)
…feel like, “I wish I were back there.” Well, it reinforced that I was on the right path.
Chrissie Ott MD (00:38)
When you realized it was time to step away, what I hear you describing is, “I have my health and I have time left. I am going to spend it very mindfully. I'm going to spend it aligned with my values and I'm going to seek joy.”
Chrissie Ott (00:59)
You're listening to Solving for Joy. I'm your host, Dr. Chrissie Ott, a multi-boarded integrative physician and professional certified life and career coach.
Chrissie Ott (01:09)
This podcast is about joy — what it means, how we find it, and the creative ways people are solving for it in their…
Chrissie Ott (01:16)
…own lives.
I'm so glad you're here.
Chrissie Ott MD (01:22)
Hello everyone, and welcome to today's episode of the Solving for Joy podcast. I am so excited to introduce you today to someone who is more than a colleague, someone I truly love and admire. This is Dr. Anne Pendo, internist and chief wellness officer who has spent more than 30 years caring for patients, leading teams, and showing all of us what it looks like
to bring humanity, kindness, and real joy into medicine. If you know Anne even a little, you know that she radiates the steadfastness and heart that makes everyone around her feel a little more grounded, a little more at ease, and a little more hopeful.
What I am most excited about today is that we get to talk about the chapter Anne is in right now, and I know so many will relate to it. Anne is in the middle of a huge transition. Many of us in healthcare think about it, and we rarely actually have opportunities to explore it honestly.
After such a long and meaningful career in medicine, she has stepped into her next identity and phase, one that is aligned, intentional, and fully hers. She is now a physician coach helping leaders lead and live well with clarity, confidence, and compassion. And she's doing it with the same depth and warmth she brought to every patient and team she ever served.
So we're going to explore what it means to retire from medicine without retiring your purpose, how to redefine and refine who you are after being known as “doctor” for decades. And of course, how joy shows up in transitions when we're willing to listen for it. And yes, of course, if you know, we're also absolutely going to talk about Olive and Ollie, her therapy dogs, because of course joy travels with her — and them — wherever they go.
So grateful you're here for this one.
Anne Pendo (03:19)
Thank you. Thank you for that lovely introduction.
Chrissie Ott MD (03:23)
Absolutely, I'm so excited. Many people in medicine reach a point where they feel like it's time to make a change. And sometimes this is brought to us by our stage of development, how long we've been in medicine, what the outside world expects us to do next. I'm so curious about the ramp-up to deciding to make a change for you.
Anne Pendo (03:48)
That's such a good question. And I think we need to go back a number of years, when I was at a point in my clinical practice where I was spending more time entering data than connecting with people. And at that point, I'd been in practice for probably 25-ish years and had really focused on just that clinical work,
and realized that we could do better — we must do better — for the folks that are providing care. And so it was at that point that I decided to step into leadership. And that really gave me that opportunity to step into the belief that I had the capacity, through my connections and building relationships and how I thought through problems,
to really be able to make a difference on a broader scale. And that was also the time that I was introduced to coaching, which we'll come back to later. But I had a coach during that time that really helped me understand me, think about how I wanted to show up as a leader,
and really helped me realize that I don't have to have all the answers. I can show up with curiosity and questions and learning and that growth mindset. Those were the things that I think really allowed me to be successful.
Really at the top of my professional career, I had a profound personal tragedy and my middle son, Robbie, died by suicide.
And as any of you might imagine, it was the worst of the moments in my life. I mean, there've been some hard things, but nothing prepares you for that. Nothing prepares you to think about, you know, how do you move through it?
I have a husband, I have two stepchildren, I have two living children, and navigating all of that was tremendously challenging. And when I got back to my work, my clinical work, it was so hard because patients were so worried about me. They were worried, you know, “Am I okay? How am I doing?” They wanted to talk about me — and really, they were there
for me to care for them. And it became clear that I was in no headspace to be able to do that, because we would start even with the simple, you know, “How are you doing?” and it would automatically get turned around to me. It was…each visit was an emotional, sobbing moment.
And so that was my moment where I realized that it was my opportunity to decrease my clinical practice and expand my leadership roles — which, if you know me, you know I love to work and I love my family. And work was one of the ways that I felt like I could work through the grief of that.
It was a place I was successful. It was a place I was comfortable. I'm sure there was some delay in working through all of the feelings that come with the death of a child. And when I say “losing a child,” I always think it's like — that's not a phrase I want to use, because it's like I've lost them, they're somewhere else out there, I should go find them.
The death of my child — I'm going to go with that.
In any event, what I realized is I couldn't work my way out of this. I could do my work-work, but joining a grief writing group or therapy or other types of things that I could do to work through it weren't useful. And I realized that I'm just going to have to feel those really
hard, painful — painful physically and emotionally — feelings. And I really believed that that experience, which I shared openly at work and in my community, would allow…if I could talk about the things that were really hard, that it would allow others to
do the same. That they could speak about the things — they didn't have to pretend that everything was perfect and they had it all figured out. And if I looked like I had it figured out but didn't really have it figured out, that would be okay for them.
And that's what I did. And that was really when my well-being work was ramping up and
I really again felt like I could make an impact there — really thinking about how do we show up both personally and professionally and put some intention around who we want to be. And it was during that time that work changed; it was more challenging. There were moments where I
felt like I was making a difference and that we were putting things into place that were going to be really impactful. And many of those things were. And each year I go through this assessment of: What matters most? Who am I serving? Am I making a difference? And what's the cost?
And I think you and I met
in 2022. It was at one of our chief wellness officer meetings. I remember your very…we'd never met before. We just sat next to each other at lunch. But we had that instant connection. And you had seen my post — I usually post in September about suicide — and you were able to speak to me in just such an honest way. And your hug
as we were leaving lunch was just, you know, so lovely. And thinking about, you know, it's only been three years since we met, but our paths have crossed in really powerful ways. And as I think about the each year, the reassessment of what matters most, the people that I've met throughout this journey…
Chrissie Ott MD (10:02)
You…
Anne Pendo (10:26)
When I got to the place of, “I don't know that I'm making a difference and the cost is too high.” By that time we had grandkids and I had sacrificed a lot as a mom who was working as a physician. And I realized my husband and I were in good health. What was I waiting for?
And it was at Christmastime. I'd gotten a letter from a patient that I had cared for — I'd taken care of her mom and dad, she and her husband, some children — and I wasn't caring for them any longer, but she sent me a Christmas card. And it was one of those moments where, as a physician, you realize the impact that you've had on the people that you care for.
She talked about how much she loved me and how much I loved her, and the partnership that we had, and the friendship, and my ability to be present with them through all the really difficult times. And that was my moment where, when I read that card, I thought, “Okay, that is what I want more of
and I'm not getting it where I am.”
Chrissie Ott MD (11:50)
Wow, thank you for sharing all of that so generously. I want to just scoop it all up and share a little bit of it back with you, just to share that I get you and I got it. I am right there with you. I remember the meal that we met at and what a special connection we instantly had.
And being part of a social circle that was impacted closely by suicide myself, I have an inkling of what it's like to have that on your own little bingo card of life. It's not everything, but it sure is a big thing. And it can change how people interact with you. And people often say
well-intentioned, awkward things. And so it's really, you know, like, I hope to say fewer awkward things and be deeply present with people who have shared something like that and acknowledge and honor every single time you share, “You know, you lost Robbie to suicide,” even if we're not a fan of “lost,” because he's not lost.
Anne Pendo (12:47)
That is true.
Yes.
Chrissie Ott MD (13:10)
It's like coming out of the closet, and that paves the way over and over again for other people to come out of the closet and acknowledge, “I too have had my heart broken by a loved one whose death was by suicide.”
So acknowledging that, I heard you immediately say, “Medicine changed.” That was almost one of the first things that you said again at the top. And then again, that work changed again when you realized you weren't feeling
as impactful as you wanted to and you were no longer aligned with what it cost you. I resonate so much with that — having that lens of clear purpose and measuring, discerning continuously. This is why it's so important to have time for reflection and, more often than not, a partner with whom to reflect on those core values and “How am I doing with my
expressed purpose, my desired expressed purpose, in this one wild and precious life?”
Anne Pendo (14:11)
I do think 2019 was when I really committed to intentionally reflecting on the year before and what I wanted in the coming year, and really being intentional about asking myself those questions. And maybe in 2019, I might've thought of,
“Maybe I need to change.” And then of course COVID came, so that wasn't going to happen. But
you know, is it worth it? I mean, we do — in medicine, we give up a lot. I think vacations changed. Phone calls from patients, and then, you know, a child needed me for something. You're always, you know, being pulled in all those different directions. And I wouldn't give it up.
I wouldn't give a minute of it up, but there's always that pull.
Chrissie Ott MD (15:02)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah. I felt chills when you shared that four-question summary. I have sort of my own similar mind map when saying yes or no to a decision, but I'm just going to go back and say them again for our listeners.
What matters most? Who am I serving?
Am I making a difference? And am I okay with the cost? Correct me if I got that wrong.
Anne Pendo (15:43)
You got that right.
Chrissie Ott MD (15:45)
I mean, those are such wonderfully powerful questions.
Anne Pendo (15:48)
Well, and they're simple, so I can remember them.
Chrissie Ott MD (15:50)
That's important too.
Anne Pendo (15:53)
You know, I don't need a book or I don't need to go find a paper that I've written it down on.
Chrissie Ott MD (15:59)
Yeah, yeah. This sort of nosy former well-being director part of me
wants to ask about the “Am I making a difference?” piece. Because so many of us who work or have worked in large organizations under the banner of wellness, well-being, clinician experience, et cetera,
you know, we are grappling — consciously or unconsciously or semi-consciously — with that question all the time. You know, like, are we just doing what we do so that the organization has plausible deniability about continuing to serve its financial goals? Is it like that for you?
Anne Pendo (16:44)
It might have been, had I not worked with this amazing operational partner who had just finished her MHA fellowship, Mary Claire Jenkins. And the two of us — so she, Mary Claire, was younger than my youngest child — and
Chrissie Ott MD (16:56)
Mm.
Anne Pendo (17:04)
working with her was so energizing because we were able to figure out: How are we going to measure if we're doing well? How are we going to measure if we're making a difference? And we came up with a variety of things that we were able to look at, and at the end of each year, we were able to put some of that into
graphic form, where we were able to say, “Okay, this is what we've done. This was our strategy in partnership with our human resources team. And this is how we're going to know if we're getting there.” So I think without that, I'm not sure I would have known.
You know, there are moments when people will call. Maybe the other thing I will say is that leaders
called me often to talk through concerns that they had with someone on their team. And it might have been, “We're going to have a crucial conversation and I'm worried about what's behind it.” And that to me was a really big win, because we were often thinking — my example I use is someone not doing their charting.
You know, you can just go in with a “Here's the three things that are going to happen.” But asking the question, “So tell me what's going on?” — that curiosity would often reveal… And I was a pretty safe person to speak with. It would reveal what was behind it. “I'm caring for a sick child. I've got an aging parent that lives out of state. I'm having issues in my marriage.”
It doesn't mean you're going to not do the charting, but the charting is not the issue. It's the what's behind. So when leaders would call and say, “I'm going to have this conversation and I also want to be prepared. Help me think through what questions to ask and how to have the resources on hand if they're needed.” So I think being able to think about
leading in that way was another non-measurable. I suppose I could have tracked the number of people that called, but I didn't. But I felt like leaders then were leading differently. They were leading with that — we called it the well-being mindset — because you're looking at that person as a person, not just the task that they're doing.
Chrissie Ott MD (19:39)
It's kind of like culture change, which is like the brass ring of well-being work inside institutions, right? Like that's the ultimate goal.
Anne Pendo (19:46)
Yes.
Yes. And being able to recognize — I mean, I'm an internist, so, you know, we deal with chronic problems. Things take a long time; it's not quick. So I was prepared for the, you know, being patient.
But yeah, I think you're right. I think that that's a nice way of framing it — as culture change. And leaders weren't afraid to raise their hand and say, “I need help figuring this out.” And that, I think, was another
piece, right? That “I need help. Help me. I want to talk to someone who might help me think through how to be the best leader I can be and support my team in these conversations, in these difficult moments.”
Chrissie Ott MD (20:29)
I have a reflection for you spontaneously. I think one of the reasons I would guess that your leaders found you easy and appealing to reach out to and talk to is because you are not excessively in your head — in your head centers. You are actually very heart-centered. You are an embodied presence, Anne, which I think is part of why people do feel, you know,
that there is safety available in connecting with you. Does that resonate? Is that something that you recognize?
Anne Pendo (21:08)
Yeah, I think it does. Someone asked me, what did I want my clients to feel as a coach? And I said, well, I kind of want them to feel like a warm blanket.
Chrissie Ott MD (21:14)
Mm-hmm.
Anne Pendo (21:21)
Which reminds me of having a colonoscopy. And they always ask you, “Do you want a warm blanket?” I'm like, “Yes, I want two.” But I think that image — not the colonoscopy image, but the image of the warm blanket — like you're kind of entering this room and nothing's expected of you, but we'll have this warm blanket.
Chrissie Ott MD (21:24)
I'm like, heck yeah I do.
Yes.
You…
Hmm.
Lovely.
Anne Pendo (21:45)
I think that my patients felt somewhat the same way. So you mentioned at the beginning, you know, how do you link that clinical work, that clinical identity, and how do you translate it into the “what next?” I mean, I didn't really realize that that's what I was doing.
Obviously now, in retrospect, it makes sense. But you know — how I showed up clinically, how I show up as a coach, how I show up as
a friend — you know, it's all the same.
I'm not different in each of those places, I hope. Or I try not to be.
Chrissie Ott MD (22:22)
Yeah, yeah. There's
an integrated self there, which is — that always gives me a great deal of comfort when I'm interacting with another human being who feels like there's an integrated self. That you're going to experience the same “them” whether you're in the hospital or in the parking lot or picking strawberries in the summer. It's just going to be that.
Anne Pendo (22:47)
Yep. All those things.
Chrissie Ott MD (22:50)
What has surprised you so far about stepping away from clinical medicine and formal leadership roles and into this chapter? What has been surprising, and maybe, like, what is bringing you joy about it?
Anne Pendo (23:09)
That's a great question. And I would say that one of the things that surprised me the most is that I didn't miss it. I mean, I was so in. I was all — I was like 200% in and my heart was really there. And to be able to say goodbye with grace and dignity and exit and not
Chrissie Ott MD (23:26)
Yeah.
Anne Pendo (23:38)
feel like, “I wish I were back there.” Well, it reinforced that I was on the right path.
But I think that did surprise me. I'd been doing this for over 30 years. And so how do you end that?
The other thing that surprised me — now when I'm out and about, some people still refer to me as Dr. Pendo, but mostly it's Ms. Pendo or Mrs. Pendo. And I'm like, “That's my mother.” Or “Mrs. Pendo, that's my mom.”
And I'm like, “But wait, I was a doctor for all these years.” And so there's a little bit of wistfulness in that. And then I would say the final thing that really surprised me was the amount of time that I needed to rest, recover, regroup. I mean, I first thought it was like 90 days, no big deal, this would be great.
And I started right away. I had my list. I cleaned out closets. I was an organizing fiend. But then some days I would do my morning walk and then I would just sit in the backyard and look at the birds.
You know, 90 days came and I'm like, “I'm not ready.” And six months came and I'm like, “Not ready.” And then a year came and I'm like, “Okay, I'm getting there.” And I had committed to myself
that I would pay attention to how I was feeling and that that was giving me a message of some sort. My job was to figure out what the message was. But my typical way would be to work. You know: “Okay, it's been 90 days. You've had enough rest time. Okay, now you need to do these five things. You need to start posting on LinkedIn and posting on Instagram and start building clients and, you know, do all those things.” And I wasn't ready.
It felt like it would have been a lot of work. And I honored that. I paid attention to that. Like, “Okay, this is not the right time.” And that surprised me. And I was proud of myself for paying attention to that because it's not my usual way.
Chrissie Ott MD (25:44)
It's so countercultural to how we are indoctrinated and groomed in healthcare to ignore our actual feelings. So I'm such a big fan of noticing feelings on purpose and acknowledging they have data for us. You know, like, if you're feeling anger and resentment, it's often a sign that your boundaries have been trespassed — sometimes by yourself, you know.
Anne Pendo (25:53)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yes. Yes.
I used to say, “I haven't rested since 1975.” And when you put it that way, you're like, that's a really long time ago. Yeah. You deserve a little bit of sitting in the backyard and looking at the birds. Right?
Chrissie Ott MD (26:19)
Yes.
What
were you doing in 1975? What was that the beginning of?
Anne Pendo (26:29)
I was graduating from high school. And I was an overachiever: straight-A student, honors, awards, busy, busy, busy, getting ready to go to college to do all that stuff again. Then medical school, residency, job, exactly…
Chrissie Ott MD (26:31)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
…and so on and so forth on that trajectory.
How's your rest going now?
Anne Pendo (26:52)
I'm sleeping well, which is wonderful. And I used a variety of the questions that I shared with you to figure out what mattered most for me now. And my husband and I decided that we weren't going to do a big trip. That just didn't feel right. But what did feel right was saying yes to everything that had to do with family and friends.
So if someone — I had very close friends whose daughter and son-in-law were having a 10-year anniversary party in California. “Did we want to come?” Yes, absolutely. We will fly in on Friday and out on Sunday, but we will be there to celebrate and have those moments.
That was really an intentional, “What do I want this next section to look like as I was figuring things out? And what were the non-negotiables?”
And you know, kind of going through those values exercises and what are kind of the umbrella things. And I realized that, you know, my health was first and foremost. So I went back to regular exercise, lost some weight, and realized how much I missed that because I couldn't do any of the other things that mattered if I didn't have that. And then time with family and friends,
Chrissie Ott MD (28:12)
Hmm.
Anne Pendo (28:16)
and money — to do the health and time with family and friends — and meaningful work. And those were my four things. And then it became so clear what we were going to say yes and no to.
Chrissie Ott MD (28:33)
It's beautiful.
Anne Pendo (28:36)
And I hope what you can see is,
having the time — you know, I wasn't distracted by anything else. So having the time to really think and reflect was necessary.
Chrissie Ott MD (28:50)
Yeah. I've been saying frequently to my physician coaching clients that time is life. And when we stay late charting, even when we extend a visit out of obligation or “behaving nicely,” we are creating a time debt and there's actually no getting that time back. It's a time debt that we are charging to ourselves, that creates
martyrdom and resentment over time.
When you realized it was time to step away, what I hear you describing is, “I have my health and I have time left. I am going to spend it very mindfully. I'm going to spend it aligned with my values and I'm going to seek joy.”
Anne Pendo (29:45)
And I'm not going to lie, it was hard to find that joy. It wasn't magical. It wasn't just like, “Yeah, I'm going to find joy and there it is. I'm going to pull it off the shelf. Yes, with some sprinkles.” And the people that I loved would say things like,
Chrissie Ott MD (29:50)
Mm-hmm.
I'll take a triple scoop, please.
Anne Pendo (30:11)
“I want you to choose to be happy and choose joy.” And I'm just like, “I just can't find it.” And then I kind of felt like I was a failure because as a people pleaser, you know, I'll be damned, I'm going to find that joy. And partway through a year — I cannot remember when it was — I just realized, “Damn it,
I am going to find joy. There's not going to be a moment where it's going to not be messy.” And so really thinking about what can that look like,
Chrissie Ott MD (30:51)
Yeah.
Anne Pendo (30:51)
even
if it's not something big, even if it's that walk in the neighborhood where the sunshine's beautiful and the flowers are coming up.
Chrissie Ott MD (31:00)
Yes, as our friend MJ says, the tiny little joys of life — which do not negate the steaming pile of crap over here on the same page. But I love it. I might have a new catchphrase, like, “I will find joy, damn it,” or something. I think that's kind of how…“Joy now, damn it.” There's so much energy, yes.
Anne Pendo (31:12)
Yes, yes, exactly.
Yeah, that — at this moment.
And it kind of felt empowering, like, “I'm going to do it.”
Chrissie Ott MD (31:33)
And having time with friends and family and meaningful work and adequate resources is all part of how we solve for joy.
Anne Pendo (31:43)
Yeah.
I will say that in the last now 18 months, I needed some guidance from wise people to help me recognize what I bring. You kind of get beaten down and you're tired and, like, I couldn't have explained to you
the good things that I did. I just couldn't even do that. And so really being able to tell my whole life story and then have it out there for me to look at, kind of as an observer, and then be able to say, “I see the threads here. I see how…”
Chrissie Ott MD (32:26)
Mm-hmm.
Anne Pendo (32:33)
…as an oldest child, to work and taking care of others, and then how that just links to going into medicine and now coaching. It's all in there. But 18 months ago, I couldn't have told you that.
Chrissie Ott MD (32:51)
Did you have a structured time with someone — a coach or a therapist — where you were asked to tell your whole life story?
Anne Pendo (32:55)
Yeah.
It was a combination of a therapist and, funnily enough, it was a marketing coach who was willing — she's excellent, by the way — who was willing to really just sit with me and let me tell my story, like the whole damn thing. And somewhat reflect back to me what she saw in me.
Chrissie Ott MD (33:06)
Mm-hmm.
Anne Pendo (33:26)
Like, “That's so nice. You're right, that is in there.” Yeah.
Chrissie Ott MD (33:32)
That's beautiful.
It's so funny — we may find so many of our helpers and healers through unexpected doors. I was talking to a physician coach just today; she loves creativity, she loves working with creativity, but she mentors integrative functional medicine professionals in a business mentorship. But the magic that happens in there has
fairly little to do with business. It's just the door you enter the factory through, and then the magic things happen, and you leave changed. So yes, that tracks for me that you met somebody who is a helper and a healer and who's wearing a marketing coach hat and found your way to transformative insight together.
Anne Pendo (34:10)
Yes.
Yeah. And I think being unafraid to welcome those people into my life, my story — not having to say I've got this all figured out, being honest about kind of what, you know, kind of how messy things were at that moment, right?
Chrissie Ott MD (34:49)
Yes, locating yourself outside of our labels and roles and identities. Fresh, fresh eyes, fresh ears for you.
Anne Pendo (34:55)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, and someone who had no connection to my past or my future, who just was seeing me at that moment.
Chrissie Ott MD (35:13)
I'm so glad that you experienced that kind of support.
Anne Pendo (35:17)
I really felt very lucky.
Chrissie Ott MD (35:23)
As you are offering yourself to leaders and physicians, I wonder: what is it about offering coaching that lights you up the most right now?
Anne Pendo (35:39)
There's probably two things. The first is that healthcare is so hard right now. I thought it was hard during COVID. I can't believe it's harder now. The financial pressures, the mergers, the federal government changes, how people are cared for — all of that is just so hard.
Thinking about how — like, what's my role in supporting and empowering those leaders to be able to sustain their work? So: how can I show up every day when there is so much chaos and so much out of my control? And then linked to that is really the piece around, “How do I know me?”
So that human element: “How do I know me? How am I more aware of how I show up? How people receive what I have to say? How well do I know my team? And how do I use those two areas of growth to actually get my work done?” And so it's those moments where clients will say something like,
“I hadn't even thought about it that way.” Or, “Wow, okay, I can see that, and that's not what I want. So I'm going to need to make some changes and do things differently. Okay, and this is exciting — to think about it, to think about things differently.” It's those kind of light-bulb moments.
My favorite clients are people that are at — I call it an inflection point. So they're stepping into a new role or they've had a moment of, “I don't have kids at home anymore. How do I want to show up as a leader? Now I've got possibilities. What do I want to think about?” You know, those moments of “I'm thinking of leaving…”
Chrissie Ott MD (37:19)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm — those are exciting upsurges.
Anne Pendo (37:45)
…and I don't want to.
Right. And I don't want to go to something new as, “I'm leaving or fleeing something.” I really want to be intentional about where I'm going next as a choice. So I'm not escaping something, but I'm actually going to where I want to be. Does that make sense?
Chrissie Ott MD (38:07)
It makes sense. I echo those thoughts frequently. Absolutely.
And what are some of the special joys anchoring you right now? I have two four-leggeds in mind, but I also am curious about other ways that you're anchoring to joy in this time.
Anne Pendo (38:35)
Well, it was a very big surprise to me that I would enjoy being a grandparent.
And I did say to my children, “I'm not going to be that grandmother. I'm just not going to be that grandmother that is in your business” — which, I'm not in their business, that's not what I mean — “but, you know, you can't drop…” I'm not going to be babysitting for weeks at a time. And, you know, we're not going to buy gifts; we're going to put money into college funds for the grandkids. You know, we were very almost like…
Chrissie Ott MD (38:48)
Ugh.
Anne Pendo (39:07)
…setting up this boundary, which is…
Chrissie Ott MD (39:08)
You were setting up no-nonsense
boundaries for grandparenthood. Cute. And then the universe laughed — is that what happened?
Anne Pendo (39:13)
Yes,
that's basically what happened. There was a moment where one of our grandsons — when I'm visiting one set of kids, my job is to put the kids to bed at night, which
I love. So — and I cannot sing, I cannot carry a tune, but I sing to them and read books. And I was doing that with Wyatt. And he looked up at me with his sweet little face and said, “I love you.” And I'm like, “I love you too.” And I thought, “Okay, now I'm getting it. I'm getting it. Finally, I'm getting it.”
Or when we're walking — my son has two boys — and when you're walking with them and you're holding their little hands, the way those little hands feel in my…well, my hands are little too, but my little hands — I'm like, “Okay, that's such a moment.”
Chrissie Ott MD (40:09)
Yeah.
Anne Pendo (40:14)
And then just recently, I have a granddaughter who's five. Her name is Eloise, and Eloise was staying at our house and her brother was sleeping. So it was just us. And I have teacups from my grandmother. And I said, “Do you want to do tea?” And she was like, “Okay, let's do tea.” So we got all the stuff and we made tea, and I found biscuits — cookies — in the freezer. I'm like, “We've got some biscuits.” So we have the whole thing set up on the counter,
and we were chit-chatting because she likes to chit-chat about all the things. And I realized, okay, this joy is about being present and in the moment. And I'm not distracted by “I need to answer these emails” and “I need to call these patients back” or “I need to
go grocery shopping because we don't have food to eat for dinner,” you know, because we're not organized. And I thought that that moment of just being there with nothing else pulling me away — that was joy.
Chrissie Ott MD (41:24)
That's so sweet.
Anne Pendo (41:27)
Yes, it's very sweet. And like I said, I didn't think I'd be that grandmother, but man, I had all those cups and saucers and teapot and a cream and sugar from my mom. And it was just this tender moment, so tender that I went up and got my husband who was exercising and said, “You need to come downstairs and have tea with us.” He's like, “No, no, I'll be down in a minute.” I'm like, “No, no, no, you need to come now.”
Chrissie Ott MD (41:54)
Don't miss it. It's like missing the sunset. You'll never see this one again.
Anne Pendo (41:58)
No, that's exactly
right. That's exactly right. It was just so sweet. Let me just see if I can find our sweet little…
Chrissie Ott MD (42:04)
I celebrate.
Anne Pendo (42:07)
Would you like to see our other little joy friends?
Chrissie Ott MD (42:10)
Yes.
We would.
Anne Pendo (42:13)
So we got Olive, the little one, probably in 2019. And Olive was — first of all, she's so cute and she's little.
She was one of my grief soothers because she's just so perfect. She's just like the right little size. And then we added Ollie. Ollie's the Ronald McDonald House dog. We go to…here's sweet Olive.
Chrissie Ott MD (42:27)
You…
Hmm.
Hi Olive!
Hi hubby!
Anne Pendo (42:46)
I can't get a big dog up. Ollie is too big, but Olive is
just our sweetest little… I can't see her — there you are. There you are, Olive!
Chrissie Ott MD (42:55)
So sweet. Hi, Ollie. Hi, Olive.
So precious.
Anne Pendo (43:01)
So they were at the nursing…we went to a class that the PICU holds when they train new PICU nurses. So there's about 30 people
learning all the new PICU stuff. Here's Ollie. Come here, Ollie. Come here. Well, they keep Duncan busy. They have their own schedule. So they get to visit the Children's Hospital,
Chrissie Ott MD (43:03)
And they get to go and sp—
Amazing. So they keep you busy. They have their own schedule.
Anne Pendo (43:29)
our university hospital, one of our Intermountain hospitals, and the Ronald McDonald House. And there are patients that want to see them, but really it's the staff.
Chrissie Ott MD (43:45)
Yes.
Anne Pendo (43:45)
And
every so often we'll get a phone call — typically it's from the Children's Hospital. If there's been a child that's died in the ER: “Can you come up and be with our staff while we do the debrief?” And we live close. So Duncan goes right up with one of the dogs, usually little Olive, because she's tinier. Ollie, though, who's big,
has such a calming presence. He'll put his big head right on your lap and you just kind of feel any stress just melting away. So they have been…they've been a joy, and it's joyful — the whole family of healers. Our former CEO did say — saw Duncan with Olive
Chrissie Ott MD (44:21)
Hmm.
You have a whole family of healers.
Anne Pendo (44:41)
at the hospital and said, “You really are the empath family.” And I said, “I'm thinking that's a compliment, but I'm going to take it.”
Chrissie Ott MD (44:45)
Ha ha ha ha!
Thank you for noticing.
Anne Pendo (44:53)
Yes, thank you for noticing, yes. And
I kind of loved it, because it was like, yeah, we talk about it and our actions match.
Chrissie Ott MD (45:02)
I love that.
I have an invitation for you. If you had one message to just radiate out into the world of people that might be listening right now — especially as it pertains to joy and your adventures finding it in this chapter — what wants to come, what wants to be said?
Anne Pendo (45:24)
Yeah.
I'm going to speak through the lens of feeling like you have the ability to control everything. And there are moments when things are not controllable. And having some self-compassion, giving yourself some grace during those times, seeking out those helpers that are around you and listening to you
and what you need. Recognizing that life is messy and moving through grief comes in so many different ways — and that there's hope. I told you at the beginning, I'm a hope giver. That there's hope that you will come out the other side. I wasn't sure that that was going to happen for me.
Chrissie Ott MD (46:29)
Yeah, naturally.
Anne Pendo (46:30)
And
you know, being able to sit here with you today to share that — to share that optimism or wisdom, I guess, in my years of living — that you can…that it's possible.
Chrissie Ott MD (46:54)
It *is* possible. Thank you, Anne, for sharing so much with us today about your journey solving for joy. I'm just honored and also delighted to be friends and colleagues and on this path with you.
Anne Pendo (47:01)
Mutual love.
Same, right back at you.
Chrissie Ott MD (47:15)
Alright, everybody, thank you for listening. If this episode resonated with you, we would be so honored by a little rating and review. It helps get the word out. It's how we grow this movement. We are sending you lots of joy today, and we will see you next time. Thank you.