What's Coming to Downtown Cary, NC with Bryan Hayes

Join host Joe Woolworth on the Downtown Cary Show as he interviews Bryan Hayes, the business service manager for the town of Cary, to dive into the town's extensive growth and plans. Discover insights into the Imagine Cary Plan, new developments, and ongoing projects, including the new parking decks and the soon-to-open Lloyd's restaurant. Brian shares his experiences growing up in Cary and discusses the town's balance of growth and maintaining its charming community vibe. Don't miss out on learning about Cary's past, present, and exciting future in this comprehensive episode!

00:00 Welcome to the Downtown Carrie Show

00:27 Introducing Brian Hayes: A Local Perspective

01:34 The Imagine Cary Plan: A Vision for the Future

03:36 Downtown Cary's Transformation

06:34 Exciting New Developments in Downtown Cary

08:01 Parking Solutions and Challenges

12:29 Community Involvement and Misconceptions

17:40 Community Ordinances and Code Enforcement

18:11 Personal Experiences and Town Pride

19:11 Growth vs. Charm Debate

22:51 Town Hall Campus and Train Station Plans

25:34 Downtown Construction Updates

29:30 Future Development and Housing

31:30 Reflections on the Town's Evolution

33:19 Concluding Remarks and Contact Information

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This show is brought to you by The Heart of Cary Association in cooperation with Podcast Cary.

https://heartofcary.org
https://podcastcary.com

Creators and Guests

Host

Joe Woolworth

The guy behind Podcast Cary & Marketing is Storytelling Studios in Cary, NC. Joe is also the president of the Heart of Cary Association.

What is The Downtown Cary Show?

Presented by the Heart of Cary Association in collaboration with Podcast Cary.

Downtown Cary is buzzing with change — new businesses, fresh faces, and bold ideas — but at its heart, it’s still the place where neighbors wave hello and stories are shared over coffee. The Downtown Cary Show is your front-row seat to the people and passions shaping the soul of our growing town.

Each episode, host Joe Woolworth, President of the Heart of Cary Association, and other members of the board sit down with local leaders, business owners, creatives, and nonprofit champions to spotlight the energy, heritage, and heart behind Cary’s downtown. From new shops on the block to longtime community staples, we’ll explore how we can stay connected and keep that small-town magic alive — together.

Whether you live, work, or love visiting downtown Cary, this is your place to plug into what makes our community special.

002 Show cut
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Joe Woolworth: [00:00:00] Well, welcome to the Downtown Care Show. I am here with Brian Hayes, business Service.

I was really excited. 'cause I wanna talk about, you know, when people think of care, they often think about, there's so much stuff coming in, there's so much building, there's so much changing, there's so much whatever. And I kind of put people in two camps with this. Mm-hmm. Um, sometimes people are, you know, they're, they're very excited about it and sometimes people, and I feel like this is just a very like.

American middle of the road. Personality type where it's just like, well, they're just always doing stuff. Um, and I've heard people say like, you know, it kind of just feels like it's from the hip, you know, whatever criticisms you normally hear. Sure. But I just downloaded, and you should too, if you feel like that's the case.

There's a, uh, almost 300 page document called the, the Imagine Carry Plan. Imagine Caring. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's very detailed. Very much so. It goes into every kind of aspect of what the plan is, what policies the town is enacting mm-hmm. [00:01:00] To make sure that. It's doing, its best to execute on what those plans are.

And this was, it was a community effort. It took a long time to get going and we're, we're like 10 years into it. That's correct.

Bryan Hayes: Yeah. Roughly.

Joe Woolworth: Roughly 10 years into it. Yeah. Yep. And you made a, I saw you guys made a big amendment because, you know, as any plan that's long term. You got stuff like COVID stuff.

Nobody expects stuff like this, so you gotta make some adjustments. There are things

Bryan Hayes: that pop up that you just don't, uh, expect.

Joe Woolworth: So. So the first question is, how are we doing on the plan? 10 years in? What do you think? Doing

Bryan Hayes: very well.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah.

Bryan Hayes: Yeah, doing very well. Um, you know, right now with C and its growth, um, it was seen a long time ago.

Um, you know, I, I, I say all the time that the planners and the people that were, you know, at the town of Cary, you know, back when I was growing up in Cary, um, deserve a lot of credit. 'cause they had a vision. They saw where they wanted to go, and they, they put that into place, you know, in the, in the plan that you're referring to.

And, um, you know, [00:02:00] it's, it's one of those things where they saw it and it has. Um, come to fruition. Yeah. You know, it really has, um, what they saw in the, in the past is, is coming the future. And there are things that we're dealing with at the town right now that they foresaw coming as well. So, um, you know, it's, it's kind of a, um, a crossroads area Yeah.

I guess for the town, um, because we're having to learn to do things a different way. Right. Right now, you know, but, you know, the, um, leadership plan that, that, uh. You know, they saw that, they saw that coming. So, you know, it, it's been a very good, good thing for Kerry.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah. Do you think the, the adjustments are, it seems like the plan was so aspirational when we were farmland in like a handful of businesses.

Yeah. Um. And the plan was detailed and built out before the big boom, uh, what you call like maybe the downtown park didn't finish the, the library opening. And it's, it's a different downtown

Bryan Hayes: [00:03:00] Oh sure.

Joe Woolworth: Than it ever has. It's completely different than it ever has been. Mm-hmm. Um, and it seems like it will be a new downtown to me, it feels like in five years from now, it's gonna be a completely different downtown based on the amount of people moving in, the buildings going up.

Uh, and so. I just wanted to kinda speak on behalf of that notion of like, well, it seems like they're just kind of me, me, me, me. And it's like there's been a pretty detailed plan now that you were the perfect guy to talk to about it. Definitely

Bryan Hayes: been a detailed plan. Yeah. So for years, I, you know, I, I tell people all the time, you know, I grew up in Cary, um,

Joe Woolworth: and you're one of the few guys I know that has a few guys

Bryan Hayes: that, that grew up in Cary.

My parents moved to Cary in 1973. There were, uh, 7,600 people in Kerry at the time. Wow. So now, um. The latest census, I think we're at 191,000. That's what

Joe Woolworth: I heard.

Bryan Hayes: Yeah. So, um, was we're knocking on

Joe Woolworth: 200,000. That's right. Yeah. Yes. How big do we have to be to be the biggest town and dethrone that other town that's, yeah.

I don't know. That's the bigger one than us. I don't know. We'll have to look that up. Yeah, I'll have to, I'll it in the show. Have

Bryan Hayes: to up. Yeah. I'm not sure. I'm not sure what that population is, but, um, you know, [00:04:00] c back those days was, you know, it was, it was just a little small town, you know. Right. Downtown was.

It, you know, back in the, the seventies, um, you know, I remember when we first moved to Kerry, my mom tells stories all the time about how, uh, you know, they, I'd have to go to a birthday party or something like that. The only way, only place to go get a present was Ashworth. That was it. Yeah. If not, you had to go out to Kmart on Western Boulevard or something like that.

That was shopping. That was shopping. So, um, yeah, the downtown area though, has done a lot of changes since that time. But, you know, even up to, you know, five years ago. It wasn't what it is now.

Joe Woolworth: Right.

Bryan Hayes: You know, it, um, over the past really five years, you know, the downtown area's become what it is now and it will continue, you know, to grow.

I mean, because it's happening areas where people wanna be right now. Right.

Joe Woolworth: So how do you think, think like the downtown park, the new library, the street scapes improvements, all the events and activities that Parks and Rec are doing, how do you think that's been impacting businesses and residents? [00:05:00]

Bryan Hayes: Well, you know.

As you know, you know, five years ago there was nobody in the downtown area. We'd leave work at five o'clock on a Friday and there was nobody there. It was a ghost town. Right. Um, now there's people everywhere, you know, we're, um, you know, when the people come, you know, there's, there's challenges that we have to deal with, with pedestrians and Sure.

You know, uh, safety concerns, that sort of thing in the downtown area. But from a business perspective, they have definitely, I would say. Um, benefited from the growth in the downtown area? Yeah, just, just the people that are in the downtown area now on the weekends is, is so much different than used to be.

Joe Woolworth: I'm definitely in the camp of people that get really excited about new development. Mm-hmm. I love it when new stuff opens, new businesses, new apartments, new non-profits, all the all the things. Yeah. I like it. And uh, there's gotta be a lot going on and I know that's a big part of your job, so I'm curious if you just wanted to talk a little bit about what's going on right now that has you excited what's coming to downtown right now?

Bryan Hayes: Um, I'm really excited about the Lloyd's [00:06:00] that's coming in the new restaurant right there at the old Hans. Okay. Um,

Joe Woolworth: that's the gas station on the corner. That's the

Bryan Hayes: gas station right there on the corner across from the bank. Um, I'm, I'm looking forward to that. Yeah. Yeah, that's, uh, that's a project that's just ongoing or just getting started now.

Um, do you

Joe Woolworth: know why they chose the name?

Bryan Hayes: It was the original gas station. Oh, okay. There on the corner. So they're going back to the name that was, that was the name of the original gas station on the corner. So that's gonna be the name of the new restaurant that's going in, in

Joe Woolworth: that area. Okay. Um, do you know anything about what kind of restaurant it's gonna be?

I don't,

Bryan Hayes: I don't know which, I've heard of a few different things, but I'm not sure what they've decided on yet.

Joe Woolworth: Okay.

Bryan Hayes: Um, but is that gonna be a

Joe Woolworth: pretty big build? 'cause it's not a very large building right now.

Bryan Hayes: Yeah, I, it is. They're gonna be adding on a little bit to it. Um. I think that the square footage of it right now was only like 1200 square feet.

Something like that. Yeah. Um, but then you can close the bays. But I also noticed, uh, last week they cleared out the section behind. Han's or the new Lloyd's in between the fire admin building mm-hmm. And the Han section. They've cleared that out and there's more space there than I [00:07:00] was thinking.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah.

Bryan Hayes: So, you know, they'll, they'll add on some there.

Joe Woolworth: I get particularly excited when it's a new restaurant 'cause I know I'm involved, you know, I'm gonna at least try it. That's right. Probably like, yes.

Bryan Hayes: Yeah. I'm, I'm looking forward to it. Um, I'm also looking forward to the parking. Yeah. You know, that's, I mean, we're not. Oblivious to the fact that, you know, parking is an issue and we are working on it.

And, um, we've got some good plans. Uh, we've got, uh, you know, two decks that are, you know, yeah. Just about, you know, completed. We're hoping to have those done. Um, you know, roughly February is what we're looking at right now.

Joe Woolworth: Are those going to both be free decks for public parking? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yep. Sure will.

That's the one that. In the, in the mixed use development

Bryan Hayes: that's right over there on South Harrison. Right at South Harrison and, uh, east Chatham Street. Yeah. We've got the Meridian Carry development that's going on there now. Um, and then we have the Cedar Street deck that's, that's going on as well. Um, we just, we were excited.

We had lazy days last [00:08:00] weekend. And, uh, you know, we opened up Cedar Street first time in a while, so we were excited about that. Yeah. Um, but, uh, yeah, they're plugging away at the deck on Cedar Street. Should be done, like I said. Um, we're hoping, you know, by February at the latest. Yeah. Um, you know, and it, a lot of that depends on, you know, weather.

We've moved, uh, really fast on that project and, and, you know, the, the project manager for that project has done an excellent job.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah. Parking's one of those things where. I've heard multiple people tell me residents, particularly with this point of view, I would've never thought I was like, I would be Hurry up and build some parking decks.

Bryan Hayes: That's right. That's right. You know, it's, but when you

Joe Woolworth: need 'em, you need 'em. That's, it's like, it's kind of like when you buy new tires for your car. Yes. You spend all that money, your car is gonna feel better, but it's still the same car. It's still the same car, it's just

Bryan Hayes: That's right. Safer

Joe Woolworth: and better. Yeah.

And I feel that way about parking decks a little bit. Yeah.

Bryan Hayes: Yeah, exactly. Um. I've never been more excited about parking deck in my life. [00:09:00] That's right. But no, it, um, yeah, I'm, I'm looking forward to the parking being, being completed. Yeah. But, uh, you know, it's, it's been said, you know, and I've heard that, um, you know, if you have a, uh, a parking problem.

In an area, a downtown area, then it's a thriving area. Sure. So I'd rather have a parking problem than a not

Joe Woolworth: parking problem. Yeah. And those two decks are very walkable to the park. Oh yeah. Which is I think, yep. Why most people come. That's right. There was, there was talk a while back. I remember hearing about like some kind of, maybe like a shuttle service or anything.

Is that still?

Bryan Hayes: That's correct. In works. We do have a shuttle service now that runs out of, uh. Um, off Wilkinson over there by town hall.

Joe Woolworth: Okay.

Bryan Hayes: There is a bus stop there. They'll come through and there's a little route that they'll run through in the downtown area.

Joe Woolworth: Okay. Currently. So that's a little pro tip, if you're That's right.

Experiencing some parking issues right now. That's exactly

Bryan Hayes: right. Yeah. You can, you can always, on the weekends you can park over 'em, uh, town hall, catch the, catch the [00:10:00] bus there and it'll, it'll go around the park. Yeah. And that area there, you know. But, um, not only that, the Cedar Street deck is also gonna bring, um, I think more people.

To the East Chatham side of things, you know, we've got a lot of traffic there anyway. Yeah. But when you've got parking there, you've got the, um, Rogers building right next to it. Right. Um, a lot of great businesses in that area right there. Um, we've got great businesses all over downtown, to be honest with you.

I mean, we have, um. Uh, that's one thing I can really say. The businesses in the downtown area are just, you know, some great people. They got great owners. Yeah. And they, they really care about the downtown area.

Joe Woolworth: What do you hear, if you hear anything from people saying like, man, I wish we had more of this downtown.

Is there any kind of thing that comes to mind? Parking. Parking. Yeah.

Bryan Hayes: Parking is usually the, the big one that we hear. Yeah. Yeah. That's parking is the, is the thing. Um,

Joe Woolworth: I hear, I hear some people say like a grocery store. [00:11:00] Yeah, yeah. Or maybe more shopping.

Bryan Hayes: Yeah. It, um, you know, we were, we were curious, you know, we don't get involved, um, but we were curious to see what was gonna happen with Ashworth.

Right there. And I'm so excited. Blue Moon's going in there, so, um Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Lily, um, from Blue Moon, she's moving her space. She's going into that. So a very care

Joe Woolworth: centric business gets to go into it. That's nice. That's exactly

Bryan Hayes: right. So I'm, I'm, um, excited for her. Yeah. But yeah, I was curious if a grocery store was gonna go in there, like a little corner store or something like that.

Oh, convenience store of some kind. Be honest. I'm, I'm happy Lily's going in at Blue Moon. She's great.

Joe Woolworth: I think, I think that's a, that's a misconception that some people have about the town. You just said like, oh, we don't get involved. I think a lot of people assume that the town chooses who goes where and what businesses go into what spots.

Yeah. That's not really part of the planning.

Bryan Hayes: No, no. Definitely not. It's not something that, unless it's a. You know, a big box office or a big box store that's coming in [00:12:00] and they have a development plan to build their own building and that sort of thing, then sure. We. We know about that sort of thing. But lots of times, you know, in the downtown area, um, you know, they'll develop a building, but they're looking for a certain type of tenant for that area.

Sure. The developer is not, not the town.

Joe Woolworth: Right. Yeah. So your guys' role is more to, you know, make sure they're following the rules.

Bryan Hayes: That's correct.

Joe Woolworth: Uh, make sure they're eligible for what they wanna do there. Yeah. And maybe hear some concern from the community.

Bryan Hayes: Sure. Oh, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. And, and I'll.

I am one of the ones that enjoy talking with the people and not a lot of people aren't, you know, excited about things, but, um, I enjoy talking to 'em 'cause at least I can explain, you know, our point of view and, and some of the things they have misconceptions that aren't necessarily true. Sure. You know, that, um, you know, I can explain a, a better way and then all of a sudden it makes 'em realize, oh, okay, yeah, yeah, I was wrong for example.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah. Um, I remember I heard, and I [00:13:00] didn't watch this one or attend it, but I heard that it got a little heated with what was going on with Waverly, with the approval of the, I guess it was like eight or nine stories.

Bryan Hayes: Yeah, they had some, um, which is tall for

Joe Woolworth: that area. Yeah. Some

Bryan Hayes: redevelopment on the backside of Waverly over there.

And

Joe Woolworth: it got approved, right?

Bryan Hayes: It did, it did, but I don't know if it was the original.

Joe Woolworth: Sure.

Bryan Hayes: I, I think there was some, um. Negotiation, I guess, or, you know, with the town, you know, we're not out there to make citizens upset by no means. Sure. You know, we're trying our best to do what the town needs to do in the future of the town, but also at the same time.

Right. You know, we're here for the citizens. We work for the citizens, you know, they, they pay our salary. Yeah. So, um,

Joe Woolworth: I think that might be one of the common misconceptions that the town is like working for the businesses. Mm-hmm. As opposed to as you put it, you know. You're public officials, you're working for the citizens.

That doesn't mean that you're anti-business or you're working against businesses. No, definitely. Um, [00:14:00] but you're kind of almost in this, I don't know, like peacemaker role a lot of times. Sure. Between the two.

Bryan Hayes: Sure. Yeah, definitely. It, it, um, you know, the, the town itself, you know, we're looking after, you know, carry ordinances, right?

The citizens of carry. Um, you know, infrastructure, right. That sort of thing, you know, and back

Joe Woolworth: to that plan. Yeah. Like that's, that's where the community input is being filtered into right before it all started. Mm-hmm. There was like, well, what do we wanna be Yeah. As a town. And you guys collected all that input from citizens, business owners, nonprofits, everybody.

That collaboration thing. Yeah. Um, I don't know why I feel like so defensive about it, but sometimes I just feel like. But that's not really what happened when I hear people getting hot and bothered about it.

Bryan Hayes: Yeah. I run into that quite a bit, but um, you know, it's really lots of times, you know, it's nothing that a conversation can't fix.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah.

Bryan Hayes: You know, because it's just misconceptions. Lots of times people just. I don't know. And if I didn't work in this field, I wouldn't know. [00:15:00]

Joe Woolworth: I was having a conversation with somebody that lived over by waver and they're like, I'm gonna be able to see that from my back porch. Yeah. And I was like, oh yeah.

Okay. Yeah.

Bryan Hayes: Yeah. There was concessions made there, but like I knew 'em

Joe Woolworth: and I was like, so, well, you buy the land then. I mean, that's just not how it works, you know? No, you don't get to dictate your view. No, exactly. 'cause you own your quarter acre that, that's exactly

Bryan Hayes: right. I mean, we. It's hard for us to tell a developer what to do when he's spent, you know, a good bit of money on Right.

You know, land. But that being said, there is a development review process Sure. That they go through and, and we do have a, a say so in that you, you guys care a lot

Joe Woolworth: about like what it looks like, the trees, the rainwater, all that kind of stuff. Which I think is that a bit of why Cary Town Center is just kind of currently paused?

With what's going on with them all?

Bryan Hayes: Well, you know, I really don't know much about that. Okay. You know, well, my understanding wasn't, I don't know much about that area just because it's. We don't own it. Right. We don't own the land. My understanding

Joe Woolworth: was that maybe you can kind of verify this, that there was a, so Epic bought [00:16:00] it mm-hmm.

After the, the first company had it and they had all these plans and they were working towards it, and then Epic bought it so that the plan started over. Mm-hmm. And then my understanding was the window to submit plans from Epic expired. And so now there's just currently no plans.

Bryan Hayes: I, and I don't even know, I don't, I don't even know that, to be honest with you.

Uh, um, I know that Epic owned it. And they own the land. Um, but I don't know what they're gonna do with it right now. Yeah. Yeah. I, I just, um, kind of been so stuff like that. Slow going. I mean, it is, it is. And, and, you know, would we love to see something nice and aesthetically pleasing and beautiful in that area?

Of course. Right. Um, but we don't own the land, so. Right. Um, you know, it's. Spics land, they can, can do what they want to,

Joe Woolworth: right? Yeah. Up to a limit. Up to a limit. That's exactly right. To limit. They can do what they're allowed to do. That's right. According to,

Bryan Hayes: as long as there's no ordinances that are violated or Yeah.

You know, you know. 'cause we have, you know, and that goes with [00:17:00] anything though. That could be just neighborhoods even. Absolutely. Um, you know, we have, you know, code enforcement because there's certain things that you have to. You

Joe Woolworth: know,

Bryan Hayes: upkeep That's right in the town.

Joe Woolworth: And you know, nobody likes getting that letter from the HOA, I just got one that said my mailbox was crooked and it ticked me off and then I fixed my mailbox and it looks better.

Yeah. You know,

Bryan Hayes: it's just kind. Exactly. It's the,

Joe Woolworth: just the way it works,

Bryan Hayes: you know, I'm biased of course. 'cause I grew up in Kerry, as I said.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah.

Bryan Hayes: Um.

Joe Woolworth: I feel like I'm biased too. I feel like the show isn't fair. I love Carrie. Yes. That's it. I know, right? I'm excited about what's coming out there. It's all

Bryan Hayes: about the great things to carry.

'cause I really don't have bad things to say. Yeah. You know, it's, I'm so biased. I, you know, grew up here, went to high school here, um, and been working for the town for 20 years. Yeah. So, um, you know, I am biased, but at the same time I'm biased for a reason because I am proud of what the town has done. I'm proud of what the.

Yeah. The town has accomplished over the years and, um, you know, not only for myself, [00:18:00] but all my coworkers that I've worked with for 20 years. Sure. You know, we've, we've worked hard on, on things and, um, it's very rewarding. Yeah. You know, to

Joe Woolworth: see it. Now how many employees do you guys have at the town now?

1200. 1200? Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. That's impressive. So I guess that brings us to a good, uh. Transition here. You know, there's, when I typed in and I was just trying to wonder like, what are the hot button issues in C? Nothing surprising, just town stuff, but one of the things that comes up over and over again is, is growth versus charm.

You know, WRL did like a story on it, and I think this is kind of like one of those questions that like people like to get worried about and or. I think it should be something that makes us pause and be like, okay, well what makes us have charm? And I don't really even know if charm is the right word. So I think the, the question is like, as we continue to grow, what, what could we potentially lose?

How do we protect what we currently have? And I think when we say charm, [00:19:00] I think we mean to use the word the kids, the young kids use. I got. Doubters in college. It's, it's the vibe. Yeah. It feels like a place that you wanna live, where when you walk down the street, you might bump into some people that you know.

Mm-hmm. That's kind of what I think people mean when they say charm. And I think that doesn't have to go away when you get bigger. Agreed. But I do think that there's probably some stuff that you have to be actively doing to preserve it.

Bryan Hayes: Agreed. No, I, I agree with that. Uh, and. You call it charm, I call it aesthetically pleasing.

Sure. You know, um, it's, I've been a lot of different places, you know, I grew up here, but, um, you know, traveling around to different areas, you know, since I'm in this line of work, I pay attention to things and you can see immediately, you know, when you go into a town versus Cary, what the difference is.

Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with the surrounding towns of Cary. Right. But when you [00:20:00] drive into Cary. You notice it? I mean the grass fed medians, you know? Yeah. The landscape and the, everything being so nice. Well, one of the

Joe Woolworth: first things I noticed when I moved here, so I came, I was in like four years in Mississippi, then Chicago, and I'd spend a lot of time on like 94 and 75.

Mm-hmm. Driving around. Yeah. And I remember when I came to visit Carrie the first time, I was like, where is everything? Because there was no billboards and the trees blocked everything. Yeah. And then you would get off an exit and you'd be like, oh, here's stuff. And then you go down the next one. And I'm like, oh, there's stuff here too.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, and as a traveler, I was like a little bit like frustrated by it. But now that I live here, I'm like, oh, it looks nice though. That's exactly right. It's not a constant row of, I mean, we get enough with the advertisement. Come on. You know? That's right. That's exactly right.

Bryan Hayes: I mean, can you imagine care with a bunch of billboards all over the place?

Yeah. It wouldn't big signs and it wouldn't be the same. It wouldn't be, it wouldn't be carry. Mm-hmm. You know, and um, that sign ordinance goes back to when I was a kid. I was young. It was when I first moved to Cary. Right. 73. So [00:21:00] it, um, that Signor has been around. Forever.

Joe Woolworth: And we're aggressive with tree protection in a way that a lot of towns aren't.

Definitely. Definitely. Which is why we have such great old growth trees everywhere. Great. That makes it feel like an old established town as opposed to the ones that are That's exactly right. Five years old. 'cause they just got planted. And that goes

Bryan Hayes: back to what we were talking about earlier, the decision making of the, um.

You know, in the history of Kerry and the way they've done things. Right. Yeah. And it all goes to where we're at now. Uh, we've been fortunate to have, you know, great leaders with the town, you know? Yeah. One after another. Um, you know, we've had, uh, great town managers mm-hmm. That have continued the vision.

Um, you know, our current town manager, Sean Stegel, he's been fantastic. He has continued that vision. Um, so it is, um. That is what has made Carrie what it is today.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I do think we have, we have something pretty special here. I think we do. There's so much to talk about [00:22:00] as far as stuff getting built and stuff.

I just wanna just knock down a couple real quick. I know that the idea of town hall campus redevelopment, um, so you got like that 28 acres over there. Mm-hmm. Is that kind of also mixed up with the notion of potentially moving the, the Amtrak station?

Bryan Hayes: Well, it's separate things. Separate things. Yeah. I know that they looked at the town hall campus.

Mm-hmm. Um, they've looked into that a little bit. Um, I don't know where that's at now. I think it's kind of a Just get paused. Just kind of paused. Yeah. Right Now, um, what about moving the train station? But now the Multi Mogul Center is moving forward.

Joe Woolworth: Okay.

Bryan Hayes: Um, so it is, I love this

Joe Woolworth: explanation of like, I forget who told it to me, it might've been you actually when we were chatting, but if you know how people complain, like about how bad it is to get stuck behind a train Yes.

In downtown c Yes.

Bryan Hayes: And it blocks

Joe Woolworth: both and it blocks more than one intersection. Mm-hmm. And so there's no real way to get around without driving pretty far. Yeah. And, uh. It's so funny to me how stuff works. Like it reminds me of this old story of this, this woman who was cooking roast at a family dinner [00:23:00] and she, she started by cooking, cutting both ends off of it.

And then she's like, she was asked by her granddaughter like, ma, why? Or grandma, why do you cut both ends off it. And she was like, well that's 'cause that's what my mom always did and she happened to be in the next room. Mom, why'd you cut both ends of it? Because I had an eight inch pan. And that's kind of what's going on with the train.

It feels like because the train's too long.

Bryan Hayes: Yeah.

Joe Woolworth: And it can't park and not block an intersection. That's right. Yeah. And so that's what this is about. Right? How do we That is reason, get the train station big

Bryan Hayes: enough for this. We've purchased the property. Mm-hmm. It's, it's all been purchased, um, right now.

And, um, I think we're looking at, uh, consultants on how we wanna move forward. Um, what's the best way to proceed? Um, is it roughly moving it

Joe Woolworth: down

Bryan Hayes: where the gas station? Yes, it's moving it down to the side. Um, just on the west side of South Harrison. Okay. Right there where the current, um, gas station is right there.

And that's why all that's closed down, right? That's correct. That's the reason why all that is closed down. Uh, we've purchased all the property. [00:24:00] In that area. And you're right. The reason for this is because, you know, storage for a train, you need 600 feet, I think is roughly what it was for storage. Mm-hmm.

So what was happening is where the current train station is, it would block both sides because they needed the storage. So on the multimodal center where it's at, we'll be able to store 'em back in an area where it won't block both. Right intersections. But to your

Joe Woolworth: point, back when traffic wasn't a thing, who cares?

That's right. It didn't matter. But now it's a problem.

Bryan Hayes: Well, I mean, Carrie basically started because of the train. Right. You know, and that was, you know, that's really the roots of it. But, um, yeah, we're looking forward to that too. That's gonna be nice, you know, 'cause I'm a trained mag. Every single time I going or leaving the office, I get stuck at a train.

Joe Woolworth: All right. So is there anything that, that you wanted to mention as far as stuff that's coming up that would be useful for people that live in the downtown area to know,

Bryan Hayes: um,

Joe Woolworth: any road closures or anything like that coming up?

Bryan Hayes: Um, well we've opened up Cedar [00:25:00] Street. There could be some lane closures in the future for it.

Um, just as we move forward with the construction of the deck and finishing it up. Yeah. Uh, I

Joe Woolworth: love the stuff I saw online about how like the stairs didn't have railings. Yeah. And stuff like people thought they were done. Yeah.

Bryan Hayes: No, they're, they're actually working on that right now. As a matter of fact, I was talking to project manager before coming up here.

Yeah. I just remember seeing on

Joe Woolworth: Facebook people being like, that doesn't look safe. Yeah. Well, it's half built, man. Yeah, it's

Bryan Hayes: right. It's not done. Uh, I'm trying to think what else we've got. Um. A future Waterline project is gonna happen on West Chatham Street. Um, and that'll be between Academy and South Harrison.

Uh, I don't have a date on it yet. It's just something that I know is gonna happen. Yeah. Don't know when yet.

Joe Woolworth: Was there a, was there a timeline on the train thing? There isn't the depot? No,

Bryan Hayes: there isn't. Um, it's t know, it is tying in also into the, uh, there's lot of moving parts on that. I bet. Transit. That's, that transit's working on as well.

Okay. Yeah.

Joe Woolworth: Oh, so [00:26:00] it'll be a bus and a Trade Depot? It'll be a bus. Bus and

Bryan Hayes: train depot.

Joe Woolworth: Okay.

Bryan Hayes: Meridian East Meridian. East Meridian East Project. Is it renting out yet? No, they do have their temporary co though. Okay. They just got it. Um, Thursday. Of last week.

Joe Woolworth: And they're mixed use on the bottom floor. Mm-hmm.

Bryan Hayes: That's correct. Mixed use on the bottom. Got apartments. There's a parking deck back there as well. So

Joe Woolworth: we'll see some new businesses. So you'll see

Bryan Hayes: some new businesses going in. I saw in that

Joe Woolworth: triangle business journal, one's like a, a trampoline fitness kind of a thing like Yeah, like a class kind of a,

Bryan Hayes: I don't know if you know Steven McNulty.

He, um. He has a, uh, smoothie shop going in down there as well. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Looking forward to that. He's been working at that for probably about a year, year and a half. So, uh, we've been waiting for this space to finish so he can move in there.

Joe Woolworth: It's amazing how long stuff takes, this is why people throw grand openings because for them this has been like a war of attrition.

That's exactly right. Yes, I agree. You know, I agree. It's like we made it, now we can start.

Bryan Hayes: Yeah. And you know, over the past two years. [00:27:00] Uh, you know, it's been a lot, you know, going on downtown area Right. As you're aware. And, um, and we realize that, you know, construction isn't pretty. It's really not. I realize that it does not look great, but you gotta go through this to get to the right, the pretty stuff.

Joe Woolworth: And unfortunately in a lot of cases that you've explained to me, like when you have to update the stuff that's underground mm-hmm. There's just no good way to do it.

Bryan Hayes: No way. When you

Joe Woolworth: gotta upgrade to infrastructure. 'cause you're moving in a couple extra thousand people that used to be there. That's right.

A lot of stuff needs to be redone. Yeah. And it ain't pretty.

Bryan Hayes: Yep. And then also anybody that's done a construction project at home realizes that. Right. You never know what you're gonna run into once you start the project. I mean, we ran into the, through that with the Waterline project on, uh, east Chatham down there.

Got down to put in the waterline, but then there was old, old us one or something underneath there, and it had concrete and took 'em forever to get through that [00:28:00] concrete. Oh, wow. So it was, um, you never know what you're gonna get, that's for sure.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah. Nobody predicted like, oh, there's another highway over there.

Oh,

Bryan Hayes: exactly. Oops. So there's things that you just run into in a construction project you're just not expecting. Um, whether do you think the construction

Joe Woolworth: will ever end in downtown Carey?

Bryan Hayes: Sure. I think sometimes we just don't, you know, only so much land. Yeah. So, you know, it, uh, I did realize I saw that, um, in the Triangle Business Journal the other day that, uh, that section between, on South Walker, between Walnut Street and Byron.

There's a little section there where those neighbors have sold that to a developer, so that's gonna be coming up shortly as well.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah, I think that's going, that's the new normal construction in Carrie, right? Mm-hmm. Since we're, we're landlocked, there's no new, what is it called? Green. Green space. Yeah.

When? When it hasn't been developed yet. Yeah. So we're outta that. Mm-hmm. So that's gonna be our new normal for continued growth, right? Sure. People are gonna be bundling a couple houses together and [00:29:00] selling 'em to something. That's right. And or redeveloping entire things than would be aged or dated.

Bryan Hayes: I mean, we've got a lot going on in West Carry still Yeah.

Um, development that's going over there, but a lot of that land is, is spoke for. Yeah. Um, you're gonna see a lot of redevelopment, as you said. You're gonna see, you know, infill lots, right. You know, lots where they're tearing down a house and building a new one. You see that a lot in the downtown area. Right now

Joe Woolworth: I see people get a little spicy about apartment complexes.

Mm-hmm. But this is how. We get new restaurants and honestly, it's super pricey to buy a house. Let's have some empathy for our new neighbors, you know? No, I agree. There's not that many single family homes Yeah. That are affordable in the Kerry area. Yeah. You know, I was reading in, in your, uh, in the, in the Imagine Plan, just there was some good stats in there, and one of 'em was about how we're actually attracting less millennials.

Mm-hmm. We don't have apartments, man. Yeah, yeah. No, I, millennials aren't fiscally ready to buy a carry house. At that stage in life that they're in. And um, so I think that if you just kind of switch [00:30:00] perspective, you can get pretty excited Yeah. About all of it.

Bryan Hayes: That's right. It, it comes down to supply and demand.

Right. Thankfully, you know, a lot of people wanna live in C Right. And, um, you know, Carrie has got a very good reputation as, as a good place to live. And I think that reputation is 100% true. And so. When that comes into effect and it's safe and, you know, people like the schools and, you know, yeah. It's good family area.

It's where people wanna be. Sure. And, um, it, you know, we want 'em, we want 'em in Carey, of course, but you know, there's only so much land and only so much we can, we can do. You know, from here, and that's where we're running into now. When did you say you, you, you were born here? Well, I was, I moved here when I was, uh, four.

Okay. 1970. I'm telling my age. Well, we'll get, we'll give that

Joe Woolworth: to you. Whole, whole life spent here anyways. All right. So let's try to age it up a little bit too. Like around like 1985 mm-hmm. When you could kinda look around and remember stuff.

Bryan Hayes: Yeah.

Joe Woolworth: [00:31:00] Um, so it's now been fast forward to 2025. Mm-hmm.

Bryan Hayes: 40 years.

Joe Woolworth: 40 years. Wow. Thinking through what town looked like then and what town looks like now, what do you think? What do you think it's gonna look like in 40 years?

Bryan Hayes: I wouldn't even have a guess what, it's gonna be 40 years, but I would honestly like to think and that it'll be like it is now.

Joe Woolworth: Yeah. As far as the charm aesthetic.

Yeah, exactly. The vibe. The,

Bryan Hayes: I think that the charm and the vibe will be the same. I think we

Joe Woolworth: gotta, we gotta keep working hard at it. I think you guys do a great job at the town of Cary, um, to continue to work hard on that. I grew up in Michigan and uh, when I left it was kind of a, a bad time for the area and the joke was last one out, turned the lights off.

Um, 'cause there's a lot of towns up there that weren't going like this. Yeah. They just kind of went, eh, that's over now. And then they [00:32:00] just stayed that way. Abandoned. Yeah. And so it's not a guarantee that you're just gonna always go up and into the right? No. There's, there's work involved,

Bryan Hayes: and even, you know, Sean Stegel, the, the town manager, he's got a sand and it's got a book out now, as a matter of fact, name this, uh, top of the arc.

And what that stands for is when you're climbing the arc, it's hard to reach that top, but it's also hard not to slide down the backside. Sure. So it's hard to stay at the top of the arc. That's something that Carrie wants to continue to do as we move forward.

Joe Woolworth: Well, thanks Brian for coming out. Appreciate your time.

You're welcome. Thanks for having today. There's a lot of fun chatting. I know there's a lot going on. Always. If anybody has questions or they want to talk to you about stuff, how would they get ahold of you?

Bryan Hayes: Please? You know, reach out. My email is, uh, [e-mail]. You can send me an email and um, if I don't know the answer, I'll probably know somebody.

That does.

Joe Woolworth: Fantastic. Alright. All right. Thanks. Appreciate.