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Awesome Humans is a podcast by Brett McCallum. Entrepreneur, author, speaker, and all-round Aussie bloke, Brett McCallum has been in the IT business with his company Virtech for over 15 years, alongside many other ventures - with a range of successes and learning experiences along the way. In this series, Brett interviews all sorts of inspiring humans from varied backgrounds to share their stories with the world. Many of Brett's guests have an entrepreneurial background and an amazing story about their successes and failures along the way.
Podcast by Podfire.
Podfire (00:00.994)
This is a Podfire production. podcast may have explicit themes and swearing and may not be suitable for children. The world is full of amazing people and once a week I get the opportunity to interview one of them. My name is Brett McCallum and this is Awesome Humans. Good afternoon all, it's Brett McCallum. I'm the host of the Awesome Human podcast that brings together some of the most amazing people on this awesome planet of ours to tell us their stories, have a few laughs, sometimes some tears, but most of all it's all about them and who they really are.
Welcome to Awesome Humans. We all watch movies about people going to jail. My two favorite movies of all time are The Castle, a true Aussie legend of a movie, and Shawshank Redemption, which is the essence of about a wrongly accrued man who's put in jail for many years, but then escapes. It happens so often in movies, but the big thing is it actually happens in real life. Today's guest was a young nurse who was falsely accused of rape and stripped of the career, freedom, and sent on a maximum security prison.
In the end, he was proven innocent and is now a major movie director, actor and writer. I'm really excited because I get to go to this red carpet deal next week and we actually get to watch the second movie. The first movie I've just started watching and it just really blown me away from an Aussie movie. I've got this whole introduction. I'm not even going to bother reading that. It's just, literally started watching the movie today and it's the quality of it is outstanding and the storyline is just unbelievable.
So I think let's get started. Mack Linden, welcome. Cool. Thanks Brett. Thanks for having me on Awesome Humans. No worries. The way I always start this is what's your first ever memory? How far back is your memory? back. Good question. Thank you very much.
Podfire (01:46.57)
memories at Mill Park in Melbourne actually. old do you reckon you were? I reckon five. Yeah, looking up at the sky. At the sky? Yeah, the sky, looking at the clouds. Yeah. In the Cubby house. That's pretty funny. That's cool. Very cool question. Yeah, it's pretty funny when you start thinking back and what will happen during this process is you'll get all these other thoughts that pop in your head and looking at the Cubby house was a good Cubby house? Yeah, it was a little cool little green little weatherboard thing. Yeah, it was probably my little...
Getaway place. Hired from the family. Awesome. And so where were you born? I was born in Newcastle. Newcastle, neighbour of Castron. Yeah, still a city. I grew up on the central coast of the entrance. Yeah, cool. So not far away, a beautiful part of the world. It is. Absolutely beautiful. And what about school? Where did you go to school? School? I went to about 10 different schools. Okay. around Australia. Yeah. Yeah. dad's work. Yeah. And what was dad working as at the time?
It was in the public service. Okay. Yeah, and then he went and did medicine and then chiropractic. wow. So a bit of a change. Yeah. Yeah. It meant you were a bit of a traveler and so they went all the way. Yeah, we met a lot of people. How'd you go fitting into schools and stuff when you were young? Yeah, it was pretty good. I did both. I've done public and private. Mm-hmm. I think at that time, I don't know if it's changed now, but the public system was probably better for me because I was more creative. Yeah.
the family were more sort of academic and sciences and all that sort of stuff. So how was school life for you? Was it good? Was it bad? Was it ugly? Were you a jock? Were you a nerd? How do you reckon you fit it in? Looking back, I think school is a dangerous place to be honest. I agree.
Podfire (03:37.698)
Yeah, far out. What do you say? It's dangerous. It's dangerous. What do mean by dangerous? Well, well, I think it doesn't. It's so tunnel visioned and I don't think it's a breeding ground for your talents and gifts to come to the light. That's a great way to put it. Seriously. It's, you have kids. I've got five. Yeah. So
What do they go to school or are they homeschooled? we're in the process. We're in the transition. We're pretty blessed because we're in a little public private school that are very open minded. it's right on the beach and it's, yeah, it's, it's cool. It's like, it's the old day. So the kids can play with other kids. We all know like we've got a little WhatsApp group called the Rugrats. So, you know, it's like, you seen.
They're in my house, they're safe. Yeah, yeah, it's like, has anyone seen Sammy's bike? it's down on that drive or, you know, so, yeah, it's hard to find little spots like that. Yeah, 100 % mate. You're very blessed from that point of view. It was like when we grew up and, it would have been the same in Newcastle and those sort of places. It's like, you know, your kids are safe. Whereas, yeah, the problem with school these days, they don't teach real life. It's stuff that's shoved down their throat. I look back now and that's what happened to us.
As you say, dangerous. actually quite like that. That's very, true. Very, very true. So you, when you went to school, you were well educated or you were, did you, did you go to uni? Yeah, I did. Yeah. I went and did a bachelor of nursing. I got into law and media study, so I pulled my finger out around about year 11. I never did. That was the problem. Yeah. No. So I did. and then I, and then I deferred that for 10 years and then I went and did four years, bachelor of nursing. Why nursing?
I think, I mean, I wanted to help people. I saw that as a career path to be able to help them. But I think also my brother and my sister just finished medicine and my other two had done chiropractic. And then I thought, well, nursing can go well with acting. I always sort of had a bit of a passion brewing my early teens to do performing. I did some stage plays and yeah, I think I thought, well, nursing, could, you know,
Podfire (05:56.012)
Yeah. It would support that sporadic. So it was a job you could do when you're an actor. Yeah. Which was all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, a of actors have those jobs. Yeah. It's nuts. It shouldn't be that way. No, a hundred percent. acting. Why? What was your passion towards acting? The truth is when I was about 15, I, I don't know if you call it a brain fart or whatever, but I looked at, were two actors at the time, Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt.
They go right. two legs. Yeah. Yeah. at that time when I was 15, I saw the sphere of influence that they had over populist belief. And I was just like, that is nuts. So whatever they were going through in their life was reflected into mainstream and was the norm, know, like fight club and, and, and this sort of stuff. I thought, wow, what a pull that these people have.
I don't necessarily agree that their pool should be any bigger than a surgeon or a street sweeper, but, that was where the passion was conceived. At 15. Yeah. That's young. Yeah. That's young to see the world like that. That's a gift to, to be able to see the world like that at that age. Yeah. I always saw stuff deeper than, than most. And what about your siblings? Were they the same? where are you? number? Right in the middle. Yeah. Number four above, four below. really? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. and I think they are, we all, we all, know, Irish background. And, I found that recently and ancestry is the Kelly family and the Walsh family, which is the light horseman and the Kelly. I'm pretty much, I've come to learn a bit more about myself. Explained a lot, did it? Yeah, does. Yep. So is there such a thing as middle child syndrome? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've dealt with that and, and I understand now.
with my own children that you tend to miss out on the older kids stuff and you also miss out on the younger kids. So there is, yeah, it is a reality. Yeah, I've got four myself. And so yeah, it's a difficult job. World's hardest job, but the world's most, it's the best job in the world. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, fully. But also you beat yourself up a lot when you miss stuff. Yeah. I think you, give yourself a bit too many smacks in the back of the head when you miss stuff.
Podfire (08:18.379)
Cause they don't care in a lot of cases. care more than they do in a lot of cases. for the Mrs too, they just like, I've got this wrong. Got this wrong. And I'm like, just, you're right. We've got the, it's, it's a pretty awesome role and a responsibility. The worst thing I ever did. showed my, some, my year 12 report card and it all it said was Brett should try harder. If Brett actually had a crack, then things would change. It'd be different. And now he's going into year 12 and he's like,
Well, you did it right for yourself. He goes, why should I have to try them? She's like, mate, you can't do that stuff. But at the same time, all we can do is guide them. That's right. Yeah. I actually heard something really cool and it was children aren't to be molded. They're meant to be unfolded. I like that. Yeah. It really helped me with our eldest daughter, Pearl, because she's one of those. just, just got to sort of see where she's at and just try and let it unfold. I wrote a book called kids aren't born assholes. They're taught to become assholes. that's cool.
And that was all based around the fact that people don't parent anymore. I used to your kids like can actually go and play with other kids. They should. They should be out there doing that stuff. Little Jimmy's bike on someone else's drive. I love that. The fact that they're actually interacting in the neighborhood. That's, that's pretty awesome. So you go to uni, become a nurse. Do you get a job as a nurse ever? Yeah, I did. Yes. I worked at Boxhill hospital in an accident emergency. I loved that. We did a rotation when you first graduate. So I did orthopedic.
surgeon, all that. because I lost my grandfather pretty early, I went into geriatrics. Bad move. Well, well, actually, I look back now, it's probably a good move. Because I saw the brevity of life that dash. Yeah, you know, I saw that. And I thought, wow, dealing with death often. So I thought, okay, that's all the time I've got.
What do I actually want to do? And that's when that dream to act and perform was superseded the nursing daily grind of shit work. so did you get a job as an actor back then? I've been through about three or four agents. Yeah, I did a bit of work, you know, commercials and little stint at home and away, Ned Kelly movie sort of. It's... There's irony there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Kelly movie, Yeah, but it's, it's the...
Podfire (10:38.527)
The model for acting is wrong. Yes. It's completely fixed. In what way?
Podfire (10:49.624)
on the majority, if you're not in the club, you won't get a role. then there's also, you've got all these middle, I call them middle vultures, but the middlemen, the agencies, the pomp and ceremony, the acting courses, all this stuff that are leeching and...
Podfire (11:13.387)
It's a fucking joke actually. Excuse the French. I know, but it is. I feel off. I agree 100%. It's an absolute joke. mean, we're paid to pretend. Yeah. That's what we're doing. We're telling a story. And, and, and I think that's why I know I'm jumping forward a bit with this next movie. I'm playing myself. So I didn't have to pretend. I was like, I was authentic, being authentic in that role as well. Was that harder? It was.
It was because I had to jump back in my own timeline, 10 years. And, and at the time I struggled with drugs and alcohol, had all this other stuff going on. So, and I was now kind of more anchored and responsible and clean and sober and had to go back to this like not so stable person. and play that it was actually a lot harder than I thought it was going to be. Cause it would have also mentally hurt. No, not hurt. You would have bought back everything.
Yeah, and I relive the whole yeah. Yeah, no wardrobe. No makeup and Epic underdog story. It's a great name for movie though. So how old were you when the first when when this all took place when when rise the movie awesome movie when the story behind rise took place so So with rise Yeah, I just got back from Africa. I did like a guess like I went over as a nurse
Division One and you know I was working in Uganda in some of the villages and it was pretty crazy like I was doing some hands-on stuff in Bali and Kampala and then when I got back I kind of lost a bit of hope with I guess you know I had a spiritual conversion and I was sort of going to the you know like a I call them the church now sort of it's all about the experience rather than relationship and
And I got back and I was a bit disgruntled. so I kind of went back my old ways for a little bit. And that's when I had a one night stand and I went and she cried rape. And I was kind of like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, on here. So, and that's when like, you know, the nursing board of Victoria said, whoa, whoa, whoa, until this is, you know, proven in core yet you can't work as a nurse anymore. And I was like, hold on, I'm innocent. I've done nothing wrong. Yeah. But it was the horse had bolted and it was just a compounded and
Podfire (13:30.155)
when I'm bailing, I worked at savers, like a clothing thrift store in Melbourne. And, it was, that was a nuts time, really, really nuts time. And I guess I had to try and find the reality of my walk. How old were you then? was 26. So you were a young man. Yeah. Just starting to make it out, make it a place in the world. Yeah, it was. Yeah. And then got kicked in the nuts pretty much. much. Yeah. You know, and, and, and she was 21 and it was just a.
you know, we were both blotto and, know, and, that had happened. Like I had found myself in those situations, you know, times before just partying young lad. But, but then when this happened, I was kind of like, wow, there's gotta be a bigger purpose for this. And, and, and I didn't tell my family, I was pretty scared to be honest. Or mom and dad like. Mom and dad.
They're good, you know, they're old school, know, wooden spoon and... So during your childhood, a bit clipped behind the Yeah, yeah, yeah. Puts you in your place, all that sort of stuff? Yeah, all that. You know, Dad was ex-army and, and, you know, but I look back now and like, we're really quite close now. at the time I didn't appreciate it, the discipline, but I see the rewards of it now. Yeah. And, you know, I'll call him for advice now, you know, ring him up and...
And, you know, he sort of mumbles through his Irish accent. Well, I missed it. It's a pearl of wisdom. What did you just say? but yeah. a 26 year old young lad's been accused of rape and he's now getting hauled in front of the courts. Yep. And you must be shitting yourself. Yeah, it was absolutely. I had to tell mum and dad before you went to court. No, no, no, I kept it really quiet. And at that point, I think, at the time,
The hype around drinks biking was huge. People were going down left, right and centre, it hit the media quite big. that it was what they called, some lawyers are saying, it's just the flavour of the month. You've just been in wrong time, wrong place. But were you expecting to just walk out of the board that day? Yeah, was. Yeah, it was a long trial. The jury were in deliberation 11 hours over three days. And at the end of it, the judge is kind of like, look, we have to
Podfire (15:45.407)
come to a conclusion otherwise we have to run a retrial. So they were kind of like pushed to make a decision. So there was obviously a lot of doubt around it. I've never said this live, but my trial judge was pissed on the summation in his deliberation. Like, he was slurring. And I said to my defense lawyer, said, is it just me saying that, you know? And at that point I thought I'm screwed. I'm like, this is rigged.
He said, there anything you want to say? I said, I can't remember the exact words, but I'd read like our sunshine read what Ned Kelly said about, you know, that his judge will meet his maker. said something along the same lines and a couple of weeks later he actually died. So then I couldn't get sentenced. So I was on remand for nine months. when you're on remand, you're actually in prison, security and your, wow, this is, I've never really talked this out.
Is this all right? Are we good to keep going? I'm going to be more of an awesome human at end of this. Are you good? No, I'm good. This is cathartic. thought I'd been here, done that with Rice, but this is good. It's good. It's good. It's cause it's a different perspective. and yeah, anyhow, so then I was on Ramon and then so we were waiting, for another judge to come and pick up the whole transcript and then sentence me. And it was interesting because
After nine months, not knowing what was going to happen, this next judge, and I clearly remember he said, Mr. Lindon, I know that you're, you've put in an appeal against this. And he was almost looking at me like, look, I know you're innocent. He was really going, but I have to, I have to sentence you today to kick off the appeal process. And when he looked at me and he was sort of saying, dude, I'm just doing my job, got a sentence and then we'll speedy. That was when my first piece came. was like,
Someone, someone can see through the bullshit in this transcript, you know? and then, yeah, I've got six, six and a half years or six years and three and a half on the bottom. And then, and then the appeal process started. So you go straight back into where you were or do you get all different prison? So yeah, at the end of the Roman, you get sentenced, then you go to either maximum medium or low security. went to Castle main, which is both max and medium.
Podfire (18:10.035)
And then I was there another 10 months and then the three Supreme Court judges were starting to process the appeal. Yep. And then I went to Port Phillip, which is Barwon. It's a pretty nasty, I was in there with Mockbell, like he was actually on the same floor and that was, it was pretty intense. That was a yucky jail that one. Yeah. don't think any jails are real nice. No, no, but that was just grotty. There was, remember the cell that the night I came in, there was blood all over the shower and they taped it off. had to like, I went under the tape to have a shower.
just horrible, know, really, really old school. And yeah, and then I was in there until these three Supreme Court judges are back and forth, four o'clock in the morning, four o'clock in the morning, you know, and then goes through the hearing and you're just done. You're emotionally done. You've got nothing. You just got to suit up. Yep. Basically. And then, then they said, okay, we're to send you back to Lodden while we make a decision. So then it was, I think another two weeks, went back to Lodden and
And then I remember the guard just calls me up and goes, you come up. And they said they've overturned your conviction. So what do you can just like, so I was like, awesome. No, I couldn't. It was good. And then he said, but you want to wait, we're going to take you out in middle of the night. And like, we're going to take care early in morning for the prisoners come out. Don't tell anyone, blah, blah. So I was like, I mean, I was mainstream and, know, rise sort of shares that like, cause I had, I had some old timers, you know, I had some bank robbers and,
Old-timers who knew the system, you know, like they'd be actually the best judges, you know, some of those guys, because they could, they could smell bullshit a mile away, you know, and they, and they know the law so well. and one, one guy who we'll call Jimmy Cove, he basically watched my back the whole time. And so I just went mainstream the whole time, but I told a couple of them, said, look, I'm out and they were like, awesome. yeah. So what I found really interesting is that it tells your story.
but it also shows the light of there was some happier times in jail. You wouldn't call them happier times, better than worse times. Character building times. There was like, the thing is when he's a playing rugby league, for instance, like you're actually having fun. Yeah. But then there's back to reality. Like it's always whatever you do, then you get kicked back in reality. So when you get let out of jail, that's not going to happen now. So what's going to happen is you're going to, this is my new reality. Was that even harder?
Podfire (20:35.979)
to get used to? The transition out is really hard. And I think that was one of the big things I wanted to do the movie about was because I saw so many, even in that 19 months, that short time, relatively compared to some other guys doing a longer time. but there were guys coming back in, back in. I'm like, what is this boys? You've got to live, know, but I understood when I had to transition back, how difficult it actually is because subconsciously you're always thinking people are looking at you going, well, did he or didn't he? you've got.
just, you know, the adjusting to no more sirens and bells and strip searches and, know, but the one thing that I learned in jail, which I'm so grateful for was my yes was my yes. I mean, what I say, and I say what I mean, like your word is everything in there. That's it. Your word is everything. And that's something that I've brought out, you know, to the best of my ability. try and play just that.
that's what I love because in there that's it all you've got. And if you break that, then that's who you are as a person and you just go under, know? So for someone that's been in jail, I've never been in jail, is incarceration the answer to a lot of the issues we have? So for instance, at the moment, there's a thing, we've got a massive issue on the Gold Coast with kids and all the bad stuff they're doing. Yeah. And it's a really pandemic. It's really, really bad. So what they're saying now is adult crime, adult time.
So if you put a young kid at 17, 16, 17 in these jails, is it going to make it worse or make it better do you think? Yeah, hands down it won't help them at all to make it worse. They need, I mean, one thing that comes to mind is just, you know, all these highways with big concrete walls. I mean, you get these artists and you give them a section of the wall. Yep.
you know, at nighttime and get a robot, you know, and keep them safe and go, go do your best, do your best job, sign it off, tag it on the bottom right. one will ever touch it. No one will touch it. And then you've got the next and you've got these beautiful murals you could have, you know, from here to Brizzy. There are things that, you know, I'm hoping that the next generation get into seats of power that can do stuff like this, start changing it from the inside. Yeah, because it needs to be changed. Yeah, yeah, no, jail does, jail doesn't do anything, you know, really, I mean,
Podfire (22:49.347)
Then you've got the, the psych, the forensic psych, which is probably a different, I don't really have much experience with that. So I can't comment, but I think, the farms are good. The farms are good. I mean, where I was, I was just putting nuts on bolts for Bunnings, you know, so I know the big companies, no one knows about this. They're making use of all that stuff. So they all, they usually make number plates. they're all still doing that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I saw the boys doing, yeah, I was doing the Bunnings and they were doing the government.
And yeah, so farms are good. mean, you know, yeah, give them skills, know, give them skills. your acting help when you were in jail? Could you pretend to be someone else? I... a mindset point of view, I you. I faked holding my own. Like, I... Because I wasn't that courageous. So I really held my head up and...
But you can only do that for so long. then I had to, yeah, then the inner stuff had to grow and then, you know, and I showed a bit of that in, in rise to like, showed a bit of, you know, this, this young lad who had to start going, hold on, just stand up to the fellows and see what happens. I had nothing to lose. not getting my powder. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The sausage and yeah, that and tuna, they're the big for me. If you're not dealing in drugs, then you can deal in sausage and tuna. Yeah. Yeah. So that was my, collateral.
That's what makes the world go round. Okay, so we're out of jail now. And what happens? Where are we going? What's the next step when you walk out of the jail? Kennedy's lawyers in Melbourne, they said I will take it because this was wrong. can't say categorically that they were stood over by the Victorian police, but I think they were told not to continue pursuing my compensation. Another group of lawyers took it up.
They said, Mac, we don't want to take on the state of Victoria. Then, four years down the track, Sean Lewis said, we'll do it. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I'm in good hands. Finally Australia's biggest. Yeah. And you know, four years on, three lawyers later or left shine. you know, the jury's out and while I kept leaving, fundamentally believe that they get stood.
Podfire (25:11.535)
And my last comms, this is still going to today, was we need more compelling evidence that it was a malicious prosecution. That no one wants to touch it. No one wants to touch the state. Cause you're not, you're not going up against a DPP. You're going up against the elites behind it. And so, yeah, it's, it's, it's messy. And, and, you know, I've been there in person a few times and it's all just, they all scatter around and like,
At the moment, you know, I'll tell you how rigged it is. You've got the head of shine lawyers in Victoria, the head hog at the trough is Rachel Schutze. She's married to Richard Miles, who's the treasurer for Anthony Albanese. That's literally laughable. That's where the buck stops. So then they're not going to say, yeah, we got it wrong. Wow. So I'm like, well.
You did get it wrong. I've got a piece of paper saying guilty and one saying not guilty. Yeah. And so where's the accountability? You know, so yeah. So does that never give up thing? You're going to keep fighting till there? Yeah. It's a fine line. Like, you know, Paula Coller, the guy wrote the alchemist, he says sometimes resisting can mean being destroyed. So sometimes you flow around the obstacles that you meet, you know? And I guess I'm at that point like, you know,
you know, eventually you got to trust that there's a lot of people who are, who can see it, who are breaking the system from within, which there are. for sure. And, just putting my stuff or my righteous anger for want of a better word into, into film, you know. So you wrote a letter to a guy named Rob Stich. yeah. Yeah. I read this today and I, I'm a massive fan.
Castle as I say my favorite movie ever made we've actually got a pool room edition on the air on the bench out here Just because it's that good. So that guy's a genius. All right him and the guys around him are geniuses What why robin what made you actually write the letter? Well, I had seen the castle before I went in and that was all about you know against the against the Yeah, yeah, it it was the vibe. So I've got a pen and paper at one night on an early lockup and I thought well if he's
Podfire (27:37.515)
If the story reflects who he is as a person, he'll put it jail when he wrote it. Yeah. And you know, he'll write back and he did. And he wrote back and he told me methodically how to put together a script and a film and, know, I've got your back. I'm like, okay, sweet. So I wrote my first script inside. Yeah. It was a comedy actually. was nothing like the movie that's out there at the moment. A comedy version of it. How do you make this funny? was like, how can this be real? Yeah.
You know, but I'd use way too much creative license and then I sort of tweaked it in and then I got came out and gave it to Screen Australia and they just smashed it. You know, I remember one of the script writers and I shouldn't be mentioning names here, but. It's a free world. It is a free world. yeah, so Mac Gudgeon was his name and he's still there ripping scripts apart. And he said, look, just because it's a true story, it won't go anywhere. And so instead of using that as a break, I'll use that as an engine and I made it happen. Yeah.
And that's amazing. Good on you. That's awesome. And that's a dream come true because as a storyteller, as an actor, as that sort of stuff, it's something that we all want to do. It's like part of that. So during all this time, obviously you're a married man with kids now. How did that happen? Yeah. So the night I met was at Elwood in St. Kilda, the vineyard and I was on, so a little fact that's really important is
When I came out, the cops were like, want to run a retrial. So I was, I was exonerated. The conviction was overturned and the prosecution said, okay, we'll run the trial again, just to screw me up. I was on bail for another 18 months out going, I've got to go through all that again. This is how evil they were. And, and I met in the middle of that and, and,
My mate was going back to Afghanistan for another deployment and we just said, let's go out with a bang just to cheer him off. Cause some of the boys are coming back with, know, all weren't coming back. I met and said, Hey, you know, and I threw all my cars on the table. Like go away. You don't want to come anywhere and hear me. You I've this going, this going, this going, this going. yeah, it was a friendship. was old school, you know, like courting and all that sort of stuff. and, you know, and then she stuck by me. And then when we had the retrial, it was another
Podfire (30:02.795)
11 days of absolute bullshit. They ran the trial exactly the same way and thank God Justice Michael Burke, he saw straight through it from the word dot. At the end of the prosecution's delivery, again, our defence lawyer got up, Peter Matthews, one of the best in Melbourne, he did it all pro bono. He just said, we don't have a case to answer. There is no evidence enough to convict. It should never have been convicted. So he put forward what's called a no case submission and he had practised at that time for 22 years and he said,
Mac, I've, I've never put one in this. I'm going to do it. And he put it in and justice Burke asked the jury to go away. was about two hours, pulled everyone back in and he said that we're not carrying this on. He's free to go. So justice Berg pulled the pin on it. Yes. Yeah. God bless Michael Berg. out where he is. Yeah. So that's awesome.
Yeah, that was, and that was, and it was as simple as this after this you go out and party or what? No, my mum and dad were there after five years of this whole debacle. just goes, go on, sit with your folks. And then I went out at, seafood. remember I had a seafood lunch with him and that was good. Prawns in there. But yeah, it's just amazing after all that period of time, it's just over. Yeah. So what's going through your head? was. Thank fuck for that, I suppose. Yeah, big time. Yeah, I was so late and I was like, this is awesome.
We sat all together and then, I'm stuck with it all the way. Yeah. Yeah. The whole way. It was, she's a special woman. You know, she was, crew supervisor for Virgin at the time. And, and then we got married, I think about maybe eight months after that particular retrial. So we'd known each other about a year or so. And then, yeah. And and then we moved up here away from Victoria and then had five kids. Yeah. Well, I had one when I was 19, Jacob is in Sydney. So, you know, my,
Yeah, but but he's cool with every established contact and we're sort of getting to know each other to be honest. That's awesome Yeah, and and then &I have four now. And what do you tell your kids? Are you gonna tell them what happened in your life? Or are you film now as well? How do you sit them down and have that conversation? Well, yeah, it's an awesome question because the two out of Pearl and Zai, they're both growing into beautiful young girls and Zai has said what does the word rape mean and things like that and and
Podfire (32:23.733)
And I've been very open with just going back to the birds and the bees initially, like just just saying really about consent and teaching them about, you know, just about that their body is, it's who they are as a person. It's all attached. Don't get caught up with the cognitive dissonance that, so, know, pushing out to young kids. So they really got good discernment. They're really armed up. And I haven't, to be honest, I think Pearlie's putting it together.
She's piecing it together about what may have happened and, but we've been very transparent about life. Yep. Yeah. So it's anyway to be. Yeah, I think so. You know, I think it's the best way to parent. is. Yeah. It's like, don't hide shit. Like we've got some relatives that didn't know they were adopted until they were 18, 19. And everyone's wondering why the world blew up at 18, 19 is cause I didn't fucking know you weren't my mom and dad. And now I need to go somewhere around the world to get a passport, but I can't cause you're not actually on my birth certificate.
Yeah. just weird. She'll love that. So we've always said, let's be open. Nice. You asked me a question. I'll give you a 100 % transparent answer. And I think that's the only way you can be with kids. Yeah, absolutely. This is smarter as well. Mostly. way smarter than we ever were. Why did I get a bit older? It's even worse. True. No, I've got a lot of, heaps from them. Yeah. So you've now made the second film. Yeah. Why? what happened after the first one to make the second one? It gets crazier, Brett.
Yeah. So when it's crazy, I love it. So when.
When Rise was out, I wanted, and I saw the corruption of a lot of the establishment at the time. thought I wanted to go in and, and, do a snapshot. Cause when I was in juggernaut, lot of time on your hands. So was kind of like, Hey, if this is what's going on now, what's going to look like in 2030 years. So I spent a lot of time, I guess, contemplating and researching where things were heading, New World Order agenda 2030, all this sort of stuff. And, and I wrote a script.
Podfire (34:28.789)
because I knew audiences, are so screwed over by HK ultra and all this other stuff that, that, you know, they were just reflecting what was coming out of Hollywood. these are general brushstrokes. And so it was like, okay, you know, the breakdown of family unit. And so the movies were showing dysfunctional families, but families weren't dysfunctional, but they watched the movies. Now they become dysfunctional and you see all this moral collapse. And I was just like, I had a lot of time at hand. I wrote a movie called De Namis, the future is now, which
is a great word for power back to the people. in that, metaphorically painted a world where you've got them side by side, like a duality, for want of a better word, you've got the current matrix, and then you've got another world who hasn't taken that path.
And it was a fibid and love story, a bit like kind of sound of music, know, you're sliding doors type thing. had to both sides. Sort of. Yeah. But, but there was the love interest is one person from each camp. okay. Yeah. And we've got drones and all the new tech. So, and that was ballsy because I started getting obstacles. started getting a lot of, denied access. I would go to Hollywood and I remember one night. Sunset Boulevard, three guys came around me. They.
One said, we know why you're here. You're trying to get funding. Another one said, we don't, don't keep working on the movie. That was point blank. I don't know what has happened, but I think I got my laced something, something was laced. literally got up and passed out. was in Cedars-Sinai hospital and that's when I thought, wow, maybe I'm really hit a Yeah. So I came back and went a bit low and, and, investors were coming out of the woodwork saying, Hey, we,
we need this story out. And it's just been a, it's been a battle. We've got some big breakthroughs recently, but then when COVID hit because of a lot of the research I had done was kind of like, okay, wow. I thought it was 20 years, but it's now. I made a big decision. I thought I had a responsibility to share what I knew and I did. And I did Facebook lives and they,
Podfire (36:42.665)
at the beginning before Facebook was censored and YouTube was monitored, it was huge and it was received amazingly and when they were spreading like wildfire and the pressure got intense. We had police coming up to our place. They were questioning my sanity. And then the kids ended up leaving interstate and it was murky, murky times. They locked me up at Rabina Hospital and...
Yeah, it was it was a really really rough time. I won't go into the apps the act But generally I was yeah, it wasn't cool and and they were trying to sell delusional and I refused medication and I put a Supreme Court injunction not to be Injected with a depot and and it was it was pretty intense and then I was locked up in hotel quarantine like three times I was taken out from one hospital to another at 2 a.m. In the morning and and every time I
I ended up actually, I broke out, I climbed the wall at Gold Coast Uni Hospital and then I went to a mate had a houseboat, because that was maritime law and I was trying to get away from the cops. Anyway, was just a debacle. The only way they said, they caught me again and they said, have the depot, Halparidol, which is a shocking drug, then you're good to go. So it was like a blackmail deal.
And I just went, okay, well look, I'm pretty strong person. I'll have it and then I'll go. So I did had a friend pick me up, went to Sydney with detox foot patches, this, this, and then, yeah. And then I, then I came back and I had a proper border pass and the police came again. They took me to sofa. Tell you said, haven't done your 14 days. And it was just nuts, you know, and it was shocking. The guys at the, the army at the sofa, tell said, no, no, he's got a.
proper pass, take him home. And instead of taking me home, they took me back to Rabina. It was just nuts. And then when I got out that time, I thought, then they flew me to Melbourne and then I came back and then the police escort from Townsville. It was just a messy, messy time. and, and I started, look, like under that sort of pressure and intensity, started thinking because I'd heard about Grey State over in, you know, that the guy, the director was gunned down and stuff. And I'm like, Whoa, far out.
Podfire (39:03.861)
But I counted the costs. thought, well, if that's what's going to happen and I'm the person to bring some light along with heaps of others, lot of people doing their own frontline. then I'll do it. You know, I knew that it was going to cost me a lot and it did. I've been away from my wife and kids for a year was that was, that was not nice. but they sort of let me go. So a long answer to your question is I put that on the back burner and I thought, why don't I just do another story about how I made rise?
because there's so much rubbish in the industry and it's like it's fixed. It's a rigged system where it's almost impossible to get a story out. So with everything that I knew, I thought I'm just gonna tell my story about how you can get it up and how you can get it out there and how as an independent filmmaker or storyteller, you can do it. You've just got to find that pathway. So that's why I thought I'd put this big pressure on hold and I'll do.
The second one of the underdog. So that's a that's a movie about how you made the first movie and then how you went to Hollywood Yeah, yeah, because a lot of people asked all the time. How'd you do it? How'd you do it? Like, you know the dark horse you've just come out of nowhere and I'm like well You know Anyone can do it. Like I'm an ordinary dude, you know, like I do with a pretty cool story Yeah, pretty fucked up story. Look at it. Yeah for sure and and I think
Yeah, I wanted to show that it was possible. You know, so, so again, you know, there's no, there's no one of kudos in it. I just played myself. I wasn't going to, then I thought, honestly, it was simple as, this is going to be a head mess trying to tell someone else how to be me. I'll just do it myself. so yeah, it's a simple story. It's not, it's, you know, but it does lift a little bit of a veil on the industry, a tiny bit, just to say, Hey, this is, it's kind of a lot of it's BS. Not all of it, but a lot of it is.
How'd you go directing yourself? Well, Art's in the studio and he was shooting it. It wasn't easy, was it? I always pictured someone directing themselves like you do an eight, then you run back around, you in chair, look at it and run back, it's like towel backwards and It's a very difficult thing. it is. But, you know, I've known Art for quite a few years and I trusted that he would see what was right.
Podfire (41:29.035)
And if I wasn't hitting the beat, I would ask him, I had some other friends up from Sydney and they were like, you know, can push that a bit more or you can pull that in a bit more. So I had people I trusted on set. And so is it just you or is there a whole cast or what's the, me the, the, the story behind the movie? Obviously we know the story. Yeah. So it starts off me leaving jail and then it starts off me having the idea of putting into a film and meeting him and, then, and then the pressure on the home front, like, you know,
and didn't know what it would entail and it would entail a lot, you know, and, and then the funding and, know, getting five K here and 10 K here and hustle, hustle, hustle. And then keeping the earlier investors happy and getting new investors on and that whole entrepreneurial stuff. And, but, but my, my heart is that when people watch it, it's not just for film industry people. Yes. For anyone, like really post pandemic, anyone post pandemic that think that their dreams are over.
That's bullshit. Yeah. Because I've done this post pandemic and I've done it with no names. There's no, you know, like we're all just, we've got talents and gifts and, and, and we can do it. That was amid that and amid the writer's strike. and it can be done. like my heart is, know, if you're a plumber and you've been smashed from COVID or if you're, you know, you're working in Coles, you know, like I've actually, girl just comes to mind now, you know, like she had a great job. Now she's doing Coles. She's got four or five kids and
she's just lost life. I saw her in the arms like, no, no, no, hold on. We don't have to let this fit It's an opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. So I think if, people can lead the cinema and go, wow. And they're encouraged about whatever it is, sign writing, I'm going to go for it. Then that's my job's done. And who plays is played by Azealia Bradley.
that was crazy. We didn't approve Azalea first. Yeah. That little pose. Yeah. They did a little zoom and it was cool. actually had that again. We had someone of Kudos. I won't mention her name from Sydney. She's currently, you she was, she was a bigger name and she was all good to go. And just before the signing, she had another opportunity with a TV show. was a long series that she felt like I can't miss that. it was only like two or three weeks out and we had another one.
Podfire (43:50.783)
who was with my old agency and they were giving me grief saying, da da da da da, all the BS. I'm just like, look, we, you know, we're not going to give you- And keep it simple. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then so, as he rocked up and she considered it and said, yep, let's do it. Okay. So Emma approved. Yeah. Yeah. That was okay. Yeah, they were all cool. They were all cool. And was on set when, as he was doing her time too. So was, you know, a bit of a standing board for her and making sure that she was picking up some of the nuances and stuff that has.
But you know, I just read the process. Yeah. Yeah, know as he smashed it. Yeah, that's awesome And your kids gonna watch the movie? Yeah. Yeah, they're all saying it they're all come no No, they've seen little bits and but they were stoked. They've got their little dresses ready for the premiere. yeah We want to the night special for them. Yeah, of course, man, of course. Well firstly, congratulations I'm doing that I think it's it's two things one is it's very good for your brain and it's good for your mindset and it's all that sort of stuff to get these stories out there
As you say, going back 10 years when you were on the piss and doing all that sort of stuff to re have to do that must've been pretty hard, but to actually then get it out there and then actually have it in your pocket. must be a nice feeling to actually have done it and it's production ready. Yeah, good. Yeah, yeah. was a lot of love. The editing process is so long. And I mean, as art says, you
So I saw it anyway, the elephant is, you know, just day by day by day. And, and now, you know, there's a bit of stress, you're like, how people gonna receive it. And then you're like, well, I don't really have a reputation to care about. So I don't care. I've done my best. as Polly says to me, you can't do better than your best. I mean, as long as you're happy and comfortable, then if other people love it, they love it. That's it. That's That's awesome. Couple of questions for you then. Okay. What's your greatest achievement in life?
probably, honestly, fathering probably Matilda Rose, youngest. she's born with Down syndrome. She's five now, but that was probably the biggest curvy, you know, you're just like, whoa, like we are process it pretty quick, but the biggest achievement is the day to day. you know, and I'm, my heart goes out to any parent with, with a kid with special abilities, you know, because it is a day to day. There's not much respite.
Podfire (46:11.877)
but that's my greatest achievement that I'm kind of, I'm managing day one day at a time. Love that. I absolutely love that. Who's the person who has had the most influence on your career as a, as a actor, director, Mel Gibson, Mel Gibson. Yeah. Why is that? Because he speaks his mind and he shows a lot of courage. and you know, we, we see the warts and all of his journey. whereas
If you're in a different industry, you can have all those same struggles and it's not necessarily out there for everyone to see your highs and lows. know, falling from grace and going back into grace and all that. yeah, yeah, I would say Mel Gibson. you met Mel? Have you worked with Mel? No, not yet. Is that a future aim or ambition? Yeah, there is someone who can connect us and it'll happen at the right time. That's awesome. Who's had the biggest influence on you personally?
My dad. Why? I think bringing up nine kids in the eighties and nineties, when, you, know, you had a metal. Yeah, absolutely. You you had a push for smaller families. You had a push. Like he was questioned on abortion all the time. He was questioned on all the big, you can't do this. And, and I didn't see what I see now. I didn't know what I know now, but I look back and with four, I'm kind of like, Whoa.
get why he kind of had a bit of a military approach to the day. know, the systems in place and, and, you know, looking after the small things and getting those things right. And then the big things I get all that now. You know, my oldest is 22 now and she is sort of, we, have adult conversations and we, hang out and stuff. And it's really interesting. She has, I understand why mom did that now. I understand why. So when they're older and you now start looking at that, it actually makes you as a father.
makes you feel really proud of what you did back then. So hearing that sort of stuff must make him feel pretty proud. Yeah, for sure. right. Quick fire questions. What's your favorite food? Lasagna. What's your favorite song? There has to be one.
Podfire (48:27.963)
tough. That's very tough. man, it's either Chester Bennington or Chris Cornell. You can have both if you want. I would probably say Brie Lincoln Park. Great song. Closely second by probably audio slave, Be Yourself. Love it. Favorite movie. It's A Wonderful Life. It's a good movie too.
Favorite place in the world.
I don't want to say where I live. don't want everyone to know where I live, but where I live, it's Northern Newtown. What's next? Dynamics the futures now. When, when are we going to say that? Yeah. 2026. So you're concerned at all about what happened before happening again? No, because I've been wiser on how I deliver what I need to deliver. Like I'm a storyteller and you've got everyone else pumping out their stuff. you know, so yeah, I can.
I know how to do it now. know how to play the game. So to speak. That's it. I heard something earlier about you and Anthony Hopkins that you've met him, worked with him. Tell me that story. So he's playing a character called Mortimer, which in the first installment, think he's. Deceased. there's a little surprise at the end to obviously lead us into thanks for ruining the movie. So don't worry about going to Washington Amazon. So he's playing a role in it.
How'd you get that? How did that happen? We met when he was doing, I think it was Thor Ragnarok. he was keen. He was keen for the idea. And I think he said something like, if I'm still alive, Mac, if I'm still alive, because he knew that it was an epic piece, you know? And that's the only reason why we have now Sue Mazin from The Dressmaker has come on to produce it is because she said to me, I wouldn't have come on board.
Podfire (50:27.333)
but the fact that you've been plugging this for eight years and it's still brewing, then it's gonna work. So I'm in good hands. I've sort of, I've given over a lot of license to all Was that hard? Yeah, yeah. It's always hard to give it up. Yeah, is. It's a hard, it's a process. I've said this a few times, like it's a deck of cards and you just slowly give them away and you've got nothing and then it starts happening. Well, Mack, thanks so much for.
being so open and honest. As far as I'm concerned, you're an awesome human. Thank you very much. appreciate it. was awesome. Thanks for the show. mate.