Small group leaders, pastors, and more discussing strategies for growth and community in church groups. The Small Group Network is an international ministry that equips churches to engage in deeper discipleship and community.
James Browning: Hello, and
welcome to F G squared.
Steve Gladen the global pastor of small
groups from Saddleback church polls
from his over 25 years of experience.
To encourage and equip listeners like
you to lead small group ministry.
So let's listen and learn together.
Derek Olson: Welcome to SG squared.
Steve Gladen on small groups, Derek
here with the main man, Steve Gladen.
Steve, how are you doing, my friend?
Steve Gladen: Hey, man, it's good.
It's going good.
We got a new year.
Whenever you have a new year, you
have a bunch of new starts and
new things, uh, new opportunities.
It's, uh, Uh, when you and I are in the
college football craziness of a, of a,
you know, a new off season, everyone,
everyone has such high hopes in a, in
an off season, but then reality sets
in like it did for both of our teams.
And, uh, but in the church world too,
a new year, there's more optimism,
more things, more excitement.
Uh, more, uh, you know, people
are more stirred up to try stuff
new and to see what God can do.
So, uh, it's an exciting time
to kind of be able to, to
air this particular episode.
Cause I think it should help, uh, a lot
of people in small group land try to
figure out, okay, how can we retool,
uh, after we've had a big push probably.
In the month of January, but how
can we retool and, uh, start to
get ready for what God wants to do.
Derek Olson: And being that it's, uh,
in the middle of dead winter here,
January, uh, I mean, February, hopefully
you're not, uh, suffering too much
weather wise in, uh, SoCal there, Orange
Steve Gladen: County?
No, we just had, it's actually
the beautiful time of year because
rain, it's a rainy season, so
everything, believe it or not.
Winter flowers grow
and winter grass grows.
And, you know, so lots of
rain and stuff like that.
It's only on the mid sixties though.
So it's.
Chili for us, but beautiful
and the air is all clean and
everything because of the rain
Derek Olson: those of us in the northern
parts of the country Like maybe some
friends in Minnesota, Montana are vomiting
right now hearing you talk about 60s and
sunny, but hey, I guess Congratulations
are in order because you've got some big
family news to share that pertains to your
Steve Gladen: Yeah, our daughter
Erica got engaged, uh, towards the
close of last year and got a July
wedding that we're prepping for.
So, uh, all kinds of craziness.
It was, it was great when, uh, her
fiance, uh, asked or when her boyfriend
at the time asked for the blessing.
Super tender, great time.
I had a good time to pray and stuff
like that, but it was, it was great.
Cause when he goes, uh, you know, I
love God, I'd love, love your daughter.
I love your family.
I'd love the blessing.
And so I gave a piece of paper and I
said, once you sign this strict, no return
policy, then you can have my blessing.
He laughed, he laughed, he goes,
man, I'll do that in a heartbeat,
but it's, it's been great.
And, uh, his name is Jack.
And so we're looking forward
to what God's got in store for
them as they're in Nashville.
So it's a, it's a fun
Derek Olson: time.
So you're full on living out in real
time, the, uh, father of the bride
Steve Gladen: movie right now.
Yeah.
The only thing I'm trying not
to do is get thrown in prison
because of, Some expenses.
There's a, there's a lot of budget creep
that, uh, I feel like I'm the no guy.
So, but hopefully I'll get to
the end of it and enjoy the day.
Derek Olson: Wow.
Well, congratulations.
That is so exciting
for you guys and Erica.
Man, I cannot believe that.
Well, man, it's just been a little
over a year now since you guys had
a major transition at Saddleback
Church with your new lead pastor
coming in, taking Rick Warren's spot.
First, I want to ask you, how's it going
with that transition now that you're a
year removed and what's, what's it like
at Settleback in this new year of 2024?
Steve Gladen: Yeah.
I mean, it's, it, there really are
some great learnings and that's
where a lot of the show came from,
uh, of what we're trying to, uh, you
know, on, on thinking critically and
we'll unpack that in a second, but
I would say just on a macro level.
When you, we had the perfect storm of,
you had, uh, the, the, the covid issues.
You had, um, you know, Rick transitioning,
which, you know, you don't want
to be a personality driven church.
You wanna be a purpose-driven
church, but there's still people
who gravitate to a, a pastor versus
being a part of part of the body.
And you lose some of those people,
you lose some through COVID.
Uh, I think the, the bigger thing
for a lot of our people that I saw
is that you had, um, a lot of people
who could move out of California.
really populate, um, Arizona,
Utah, Idaho, Tennessee, Texas.
Uh, if they could move, they
did move and stuff like that.
So it really was a little bit
like a, uh, a gut punch in that.
But when Andy came on board, it's
been fun to see the church going,
this, right now we're in the
middle of our second growth spurt.
Seeing God bring back what
COVID tried to take away.
And so it's, it's exciting.
It's very different.
But, uh, whenever you have somebody new,
uh, everything gets questioned, not in a
bad way, but in a great opportunist way.
And so, um, that's why
it is an exciting time.
And that's why even in our small group
ministry, where we're going to be
rifling through all these things about.
How do you think critically?
Um, not just to think
critically, uh, sometimes it's
because you don't have budget.
And you got to think of how
you're going to do more with less.
But even if you do have, which
we are blessed with that, you
still want to think critically
because God is doing something new.
And I think through, um, Mark,
uh, two 22, when, um, Jesus
talked about, uh, you don't put.
New wine and old wine skins because
the wine skin will burst and the
new wine will be gone and the
old wine skin will be messed up.
And what?
And what that really sim symbolically
means is that I can't tell you through
COVID how much I heard people saying,
you know, we need a new wine skin.
We need a new wine skin.
But now that Covid is come and gone.
All of a sudden you're into that
zone where people have returned back
to doing church the exact same way.
There was no learnings.
There's no nothing.
There's I can go back to the old way.
I will go back to the old way.
And I think there's a strong miss in that.
And, uh, it's like my life first
in Proverbs 26, 11, you know, it's,
as a dog returns back to his vomit.
Uh, so for any of you that have
dogs and you've watched them vomit,
you know, you got to stop them from
licking it up, which is very gross.
And sorry to say that on the podcast,
but there is an opportunity that,
that we've gone through a tough
time that made us very nauseous and.
And it's taken us longer
than probably most churches
expected to come out of COVID.
But there's an opportunity
here that God is opening up.
I can remember reading a business article.
This is back in 22.
Uh, and, um, it was saying that
Uh, there's talking about, uh,
Las Vegas and how they won't be in
full economic recovery till 2024.
And I thought, Oh my
gosh, that's impossible.
We're already past COVID.
How could it take that long?
And for a lot of churches, it's taking
a while to, you know, get up to speed.
Now there's some churches.
where COVID didn't happen
in the, on the planet.
Uh, uh, Texas.
Thank you, Florida.
Thank you, uh, Nashville.
Um, where, you know, the churches
may not have gone, but, uh, in other
parts of the country where, you know,
it, there was a strong governmental
clampdown and things like that.
Churches, some churches really suffered
and I've been excited as we've gone
through this critical thinking process
with Andy and coming on board with
his team and meshing with our team
to see a lot of different things.
So pretty excited to, um, kind of
jump in and see what's happening.
Yeah, that's
Derek Olson: great to hear of
the growth and just the energy.
It always takes man time, right?
To transition and, and, and, and really
kind of settled into that new season.
So that's great to hear.
So, and that dovetails perfectly, like
you said, with what we're going to talk
about today in this episode of think
critically eight ways to accomplish more.
With less love that title excited
to get into these eight things.
So, uh, Steve, why don't
you hit us with number.
Yeah.
Uh,
Steve Gladen: one of the things that, you
know, as we're starting this, not only do
we want to talk about thinking critically,
and when we talk about think critically,
it's not to be critical towards others.
What we're talking about is, you know,
sharpening the tools in your tool belt
Ecclesiastes 10, 10 talks about how
the dull ax takes much more energy to
bring down the tree, but a sharpened ax.
It comes down quicker.
And so part of thinking critically
is, is getting your tools sharpened.
And at the close of the, uh, of this
show, what we're going to talk about
too, is how you can know you're on track.
So we not, not only want to talk about
ways that you can think critically,
because you don't do change just
for change sake and you don't move
things from just for moving it.
But you've always got to go back
and say, how do we know we're on
track and how we're doing that?
So let me just, uh, just kind of
knock out a couple of these and then.
Derek, if you want to do any play by
play, you can, but number one thing
right here is you got to ask yourself the
question, what do we need to terminate?
Now, I'll just tell you, uh, I've been
on staff at Saddleback 26 years and,
and it was something that when we were
talking about, you know, how can we.
Uh, what are things in the small
group ministry to terminate?
There's a part of me that would think
through, well, if it needed to be
terminated, I had a terminated it.
If it wasn't working, I
wouldn't, I'd already done it.
And there is something that, uh, what
I've been learning in this transition is
that every year you got to be thinking
through what can I strategically.
And so, um, you know, what are the
things that need to be terminated?
And so, Derek, I know you've kind of gone
through this, but, uh, you may be doing
something that's currently effective.
But it needs to be abandoned
and to move on and take your
ministry to that next level.
And I can think through, there's been
some processes like in care, how do
you do care with your group leaders?
There's some things that we're,
we're looking at abandoning and other
things we're looking at picking up.
So that would be number
Derek Olson: one.
And isn't that one, it seems like
in ministry that can be one of
the harder things to do, right?
Is Stop something that you started.
Yeah, and it's usually because
there's people involved.
Maybe the pastor is okay with with
killing this But oh, you've got
these volunteers that you know, this
is their identity and they don't
want to let it go All right, right.
Steve Gladen: So it is so true.
We just said Saddleback one of the
things that was Beautifully that
we had to terminate that we just
did, um, but was super effective
during COVID was our food pantry.
We ended up being the largest
grocery distribution unit in
Orange County, which is 3.
3 million people, but it ran a
season and we had to terminate it.
And in the same way, in our
small group ministry, there
are things that run a season.
And they have to be terminated.
So you bring up a good point.
Derek Olson: So that's number one.
Ask what do we need to terminate?
What is number two on the doc
Steve Gladen: here?
It's what can you combine?
What are things that you can combine?
And I got a little bit ahead of
myself when I talked about care,
because Um, this is one of the
great things we're partnering
with some of our larger campuses.
Uh, a classic example is, um, way back
in the early days of Saddleback, we had,
uh, we had, uh, a recovery program that
was teamed up with Alcoholics Anonymous,
but we also knew that we wanted to bring
a biblical principle to it and out of it
got birthed Celebrate Recovery, which is
now ministering to some 35, 000 churches.
United States.
And, uh, that's a classic
example with that.
But in the small group
ministry, what are we combining?
One of the things that we're getting,
we're starting to look at is how
do we give care to our leaders?
And some of our leaders are
plugged into multiple ministries.
They're leading a small group
because that's what they love to do.
But they're also got many physical touches
on our campus and other ministries.
And so we're talking about how we
can combine the care process that
they can get from the ministries
that they're face to face in.
And also at the same time that,
uh, you know, they're in with us.
So a classic example is my wife.
She, she leads a women's group, uh,
outside of our couples group, uh, on
campus, uh, but she's also involved
in a ministry here at Saddleback.
And so, uh, there's care she gets there.
And so what we're asking is in
this combination thing, what
care is happening with that?
Some ministries on our
campus give, which may be.
standardized or foundational care.
But what is that we bring to the
equation in our small group ministry
that we can combine so that we're
not doubling up trying to do two
people doing the same type of care.
Derek Olson: I like it
right out of the gate.
What can you terminate?
What can you combine?
Um, great stuff.
Okay.
Number three, what do you
Steve Gladen: got?
Yeah.
Uh, on this one, it's, it's
what efficiency barriers.
can be dismantled.
Now let me walk through this because at
one point we simplified our structure
by eliminating a layer of our ministry
between what was our, uh, pastors and
what was our, uh, our group leaders.
Uh, we used to have two different layers
in there and what we were trying to
do is figure out how can we be more
efficient and instead of having your
pastor and then we had some, uh, district
lay people, then we had coaches, then
we had, uh, our small group leaders.
We combined two of those layers
together to bring about more efficiency.
And instead of having tighter
care, I mean, instead of having.
One to five care from both the district
people and our coaches, we combine
those and we found out that if you
read in small groups with purpose,
uh, chapter 14, we talk about four
buckets of care, priority care.
personal care, uh, phone care, and then
persistent care that we give people.
But you know, what we were
looking at, or what are ways
that we could be more efficient?
And again, when, uh, I'm going to talk
about when you're trying to figure
out how do you know you're on track?
That's how you figure out where
some of these holes may be because
the processes will help you out.
And so you want to ask yourself,
what efficiency barriers can, can
we dismantle so that we can make
our ministry much more better?
A lot of this happened also for us in
the, in the process of discovering leaders
because in leaders, You would raise
your hand, say, I want to be a leader.
We would vet you.
We would interview you.
And then we would matchmake
you with other people.
And then we, we went to two friends.
That approach, which also is talked about
in small groups with purpose chapters 11
through 13, but, uh, it, again, it was
a more efficient way because I didn't
have to have three full time people
that were matchmaking people every
week, you know, people who wanted to
be in a group and people who want and,
and, and leaders who wanted to lead.
And what we did is we
simplified that and said.
Hey, if you're truly a
leader, you have followers.
So influence the followers that you have.
So, uh, there's a lot in that, in that
particular point, but what it would
encourage you to say, you know, how
can we bring better efficiency to our
end user, which is the person trying
to get ministered to in a group where
you're trying to, in essence, disciple.
Derek Olson: And efficiency
really goes back to that
scripture you read at the top.
Can you read that one more
Steve Gladen: time?
Uh, are you talking about
the one in Mark two, 22?
Uh, it was the sharpened ax.
Oh yeah.
Uh, Ecclesiastes 10, 10.
Uh, didn't read it just for going off
memory with it, but Ecclesiastes 10, 10,
but it talks about, uh, you know, uh, a
dull, a dull ax takes much more energy
to bring down the tree, but a sharpened
one is more efficient and good point.
It does really pull into that.
And so it is the, you know,
keeping work smarter, not harder.
Is the bottom line with that.
Derek Olson: I, I learned that the hard
way years ago, hunting when I actually,
uh, let's just say harvested a deer.
Um, I never thought through, um,
the importance of a sharp knife.
So here I, here I, I get this
thing and the sun is setting
and it's getting dark quick.
And I realized I have a very
dull knife and let's just say
it made for one fun night.
Steve Gladen: That was an efficiency
barrier that cost you dearly.
Derek Olson: So, so
efficiency is key, right?
Thinking through those things
that can literally, like you said,
make you work smarter, not harder.
All right.
What's a number
Steve Gladen: four?
Harder, not smarter.
There you go.
All right.
Number four is, uh, what
can we reincarnate now?
We're not talking anything about
theology right here, but there may
be some things in, and this is what
I've been in ministry, uh, close to
40 years, which is painful to say.
Uh, but, um, But you do when
they there's old phrase.
There's nothing new under the sun.
And so, so often there's things that you
can keep coming back to that may have had
a season where they've got wore out and
they weren't efficiency efficient anymore.
But there's ways to go back and
say, uh, you know, is, is this
something that we can bring back?
You know, what did we used to use in
the past that we can bring it back
in a, in a new life, in a new form?
And sometimes that is
just simply technology.
bringing more efficiency to how you can
do things in the small group ministry.
When I first started out just talking
about technology all by itself,
everything had to be done in paper.
And, uh, you know, from, you know,
just trying to figure out who was on
a roster, keeping track of groups.
We did everything in Excel
spreadsheets and we passed them
around and we did everything that way.
But, you know, it's not that
you throw that away, but that.
The, some of those principles that
were did in an old form can be re
resurrected into new technology or
new ways or new way or new streams.
So whether it's in social media, what
you're trying to do in social media,
or what you're trying to do with
technology, or what you're trying to do
with AI or different things like that.
You can reincarnate things, uh, to make
it through one of the exciting things
that we're working on is some new, uh,
Bible studies where, uh, you actually
will read the verse and you'll read
the context and then do the questions
or read the chunk of scripture.
And then, um, you'll read the context
of that chunk of scripture and then
you'll answer the questions, but
we're doing a lot of that through AI.
And so it's stuff that other
companies used to do, and now we
can, uh, readily do it more quicker
and efficiently, uh, ourselves.
So, but what, what may have been
done in the past, and part of that
is going back and asking people,
how did you used to do this?
What are the, some of those things that
you used to do and to see if there's
anything that you can bring forth.
You know, into the future.
Derek Olson: Speaking of reincarnating,
I don't know about saying that right.
Technology.
You could bring back,
uh, my, uh, my space.
Steve Gladen: That's probably going
just a little too deep in the vault.
Little too deep in the vault.
My brother.
Okay.
Derek Olson: I think that was four.
What do you got on deck for
Steve Gladen: number five?
Yeah.
What can we coordinate and make
things faster and larger and cheaper?
And, uh, one of the things that, uh,
I just want to bring here is a lot
of times you can partner together
with, uh, people in other ministries.
That are doing things better.
I can think through
our last two campaigns.
Um, uh, we did one called one life and
we partnered with, uh, every home for
Christ and we were able to coordinate
with them and we were able to do things.
Better and deeper and faster because
we aligned ourselves with them.
Um, in this last thing in a current
churchwide campaign that we're doing
right now with children, students,
and youth is we're partnering with
a Tyndale in the immersed Bible.
And we're running through that
and it's helping us to be able to
reach farther and do more things.
So if you can coordinate with other
ministries that can, uh, compliment
what your church is up to, then the
beauty of that is that you can be able
to, uh, go deeper, faster, and broader.
And I just want to encourage
you to be thinking through.
What are some, who are some of those
ministries that God is going to bring
to you that you can partner with?
Because, you know, for every home for
Christ ministry, they, uh, they helped
with printing and they made stuff that it
was so cheap for us to do it because they
had funding to get evangelism in homes.
And I just want to encourage you that.
a great ministry partner with
that, uh, working with Tyndale and
the, uh, uh, immersed Bible study.
There's so many resources that they
already had pre done that can help
us engage in a very different way.
God's word.
So it's really a, a simple
concept, but so exciting.
And so often in churches we feel
we have to do everything our way.
We've got to create everything.
We've got to do it all.
God has gifted many things around there.
So part in doing that, you want to
be thinking through, okay, you know,
sometimes you do want to create
your own churchwide campaigns.
Sometimes you can partner
with other ones that can help
your small group ministry and.
Give your staff very well needed breather.
Derek Olson: I love that.
What can we coordinate that's at
some of my previous ministry stops.
Some of our best small group
campaigns was literally using a
saddleback one that you had created.
Steve Gladen: You know, I did it better
than us because we were doing it.
So by the seat of our
pants, but the beauty of it
Derek Olson: was, like you said, why
do all the work, you know, when I,
when I'm new and I'm at a newer church
and I don't have all the resources.
Why, why pull my hair, pull my hair out,
trying to recreate the wheel when I can
do something that's already packaged,
you know, tailor it to what our culture
is a little bit, but it was a win win.
It's kind of like, you know,
me, Steve, I'm a coffee snob.
And when a new coffee shop starts up,
one of the smartest things they can
do is partner with a legit roaster
that's popular in the region, right?
Yeah, instead of creating their own.
No, just use the beans everybody loves
and then you get them in the door.
So I love that What can we coordinate?
All right On to number seven,
Steve Gladen: I believe number
six, number six, and I know Pacific
Northwest, you can't count too well,
but number six is a little bit similar
to it's a, it's a cousin to number
five, but it says, you know, what
are we doing that we can change?
repurpose or rejuvenate.
And again, like when you're coordinating
with other ministries on stuff that they
have pre done, there may be some things
that are in your culture that people would
naturally gravitate towards that you can
just adapt and change a little bit to
be able to uh, bring a, a great, a great
spin on bringing God into the equation.
And I think one of the examples I can
think through here is that Uh, we knew
in Orange County that, you know, at the
start of the year, people are always into
fitness and they're always trying to look
on diet and like so much of the world and
maybe even the planet, but that's where
we came up with the Daniel plan because.
We knew culture was
gravitating towards one way.
What we wanted to do is bring a
more God centered approach to it.
And that's where we had, you know,
uh, the God centered approach plus
diet and lifestyle come together and
make the Daniel Plan where we were
able to take and make a small group
curriculum that kind of met culture
where it was, but we helped them see
the principles of where a God was.
We also did the same thing in
the transformed, uh, uh, campaign
that we did the church wide
campaign called transformed.
When we took seven principles that were
deeply steeped inside our culture, but
help rewrite those so that they could
have a bent towards God and brought
people more back to where God was.
And so, you know, what are things?
That you can change, repurpose
or rejuvenate so that you
can make them powerful, uh,
bringing people closer to God
Derek Olson: really good.
Okay.
Now I know how to count
on the number seven.
Steve Gladen: Yeah.
Are there problems we can look
at with, with a new light?
And, um, this is where you can start
to pull your teams together and say,
you know, we are having, are we having
challenges, you know, in, in our small
group ministry, what are those challenges?
And actually I'm gonna spend a little
bit of time once we get past number eight
to go more deeper into this particular
point, but problems are opportunities.
And so, uh, collecting all the problems
that, that people have, there's two
things I want you to realize from that.
One is that when somebody's voicing
a problem, generally they're sharing
with you a passion that they have.
So if somebody says, Hey, we're
not training our group leaders
the right way or fast enough,
what they're really telling you is
they have a passion for training.
And you can probably spin that and
say, you know, uh, you know, try to
find the story behind their complaint.
But generally you can know
that that that's something that
they're very, very excited about.
The other thing problems can also
state is it's helping you understand
where the body is deficient.
And in the same way, when you have
a problem in your body, and as I'm
growing older, I'm finding out that
I have more problems in my body.
What my body is telling me is
that there is a deficiency.
Somewhere in my body could
be fruits and vegetables.
That wouldn't shock anybody.
Uh, but there's deficiencies there.
And so probably
Derek Olson: Say what?
No cheese deficiencies.
Steve Gladen: No cheese deficiencies yet.
So just back down on that.
We're still enjoying that.
But, uh, yeah.
So think of this problems.
There are there problems that
we can look at in a new light.
Look at the person bringing
the problems because they may
be actually your solution.
But also look at the problems as an
opportunity because the body is telling
you there's a deficiency somewhere.
I like
Derek Olson: that the person bringing
the problem might be the answer.
To your problem.
That's anything else you
want to share on that?
Steve Gladen: You know, it's it is it is
and I would say to you oftentimes We see
people that bring problems as really they
are the problem But it is something that
sometimes you can get them to be part of
your solution And I get there's people on
both sides of the way Sometimes there are
problem people that just want to bark at
you with that, but look at it both ways
So is it efficiency or or possibly could
they be part of the solution to help you?
Yeah, you just
Derek Olson: say hey, I'm
glad you brought this up.
You can fix it for me.
Thank you Yeah, all right,
and last but not least number
Steve Gladen: eight, you know,
that is what can we do to make
our ministry more appealing?
and what I this on this point what I
would just would really suggest with you
and then I'll wrap up the eight and then
I'll Bring them back to you And then
I want to talk to you about, you know,
how, how can you know you're on track,
but in creativity, uh, I have found that
sometimes I can be creative in some areas.
I'm not creative in others.
Uh, there's a book called,
uh, creativity, Inc.
And, uh, I would just encourage,
I think it's, uh, Ed, uh, Catmull
and Amy Wallace wrote the book.
It's an older book, probably been
out good Lord with, uh, you know, how
time passes, I'm not sure when it came
out, but it's called creativity Inc.
And I think the thing that I, that.
I would always want to bring around
me are the people that are artsy
people and they think creative.
Derek is one of these on the podcast.
Uh, oftentimes, you know, I'll
bring him in and say, Hey,
this is what we're thinking.
And because he's got an arts mindset
and a creativity mindset, he'll say,
Hey, have you ever thought about this?
Or what can we bring here?
Or even taking something totally and
spinning it completely on its top.
And in the same way, there are people
in your church that are creative.
But that book may, uh, help you with that.
And so let me recap the eight really
quick for you, because I know we took
them through, you know, fairly quickly,
but when you're thinking critically,
think through these eight things.
And then I want to talk to you about
knowing that you're on the right track and
what you can do with these eight things.
First one is what do we need to
terminate or the things in your
ministry that you just got to stop?
How do we To help make room.
It's called pruning in the, in the
biblical sense of in the garden, you want
to prune so that things can grow better.
Uh, what can we combine?
What are the, some of the ministries in
your church that you can partner with
that actually can help you in new ways?
So we talked about caring.
What are the efficiency barriers?
Uh, what are efficiency
barriers we can dismantle?
Don't think about Derek killing
the poor deer with a dull knife.
Uh, but think about, you know, how
you can, you know, be more efficient
and work, you know, your ministry into
being working smarter, not harder.
Uh, what can we reincarnate?
What are some of the things that may be
done in the past that you can bring back
and, and, uh, put a new spin on them
and in a new light, uh, number five is
what can we coordinate to make things
faster, larger, and cheaper, give you
two There of partnering with two other
ministries on two of our church-wide
campaigns that we've done here at
Saddleback, both since Andy's been here.
It's been exciting.
Number six, what are we doing that we
can change, repurpose, or rejuvenate?
And uh, part of that is taking.
Uh, things that culture is
gravitating towards, but helping
them see how God is in that.
And we did that with the Daniel plan.
Uh, are there problems that we
can look at with a new light?
And we just spun that
problems can be two things.
They can show you where there is
deficiency in the body, but there's
also people that bring the problems
that may be part of your solution.
And then number eight, uh, what can we
do to make our ministry more appealing?
This is where Uh, the creative side
of ministry can be so exciting for,
uh, what you can bring, uh, in your
people, Derek, any things on that
before I talk really quick, just about,
um, you know, how, how can you know,
uh, when you're doing ministry, how
can you know that you're on track?
Derek Olson: No, I think
these eight were great.
And this is from your, uh, remind
listeners what book this is from yours.
Steve Gladen: Yeah.
A lot of this is from planning small
groups with purpose, uh, you know, just,
uh, working through one of the questions
there is, you know, kind of taking a
broader look, uh, at your ministry.
I think it was question.
Uh, if you get planning small groups with
purpose, uh, I think it's question eight
that we were looking at right there.
Very good.
So now let me just talk to you about,
'cause when you think creativity, and
I know, uh, that, you know, that's an
important part, and those eight things
are special, that, you know, especially
in the beginning of a year or when you're
in a, in a slow time like summer, you
can, you can pause, you can go through
these eight things and really start to
look, uh, critically at your ministry
saying, how can I make it better?
Uh, with, with, I can be, I can work
smarter, not harder, and I can get
more with less out of my ministry.
But I also want to talk to you
really quickly, and this goes
hand in hand with this is knowing
that you're on the right track.
So let me give you five things
that you can know you're on the
right track because a lot of times
you can use these five things.
to be able to identify areas.
And what happens is when you do these
five things, thinking critically naturally
comes out and being a part of it.
So really quick, number one, schedule
an evaluation with your ministry.
We just did this at the close of 2023 and
um, we were got our, a lot of our ministry
teams together that work in small group
ministry and we did the four helpful list.
And basically we said, what's right.
And those are the praises and we all
need praises, uh, in our ministry.
Uh, I've been doing this, like I
said, 26 years at Saddleback over
35, uh, uh, years of small group
ministry and, uh, of being focused at
churches and you always need praises.
So what's right.
What's wrong?
And what's happening in the what's wrong
category is you're asking yourself.
What needs to change?
What are the changing
things that needs to happen?
The third thing is you want to ask him
what's confusing and what's confusing
is what needs clarity and maybe there
But it's not functioning as good as it
is and then what's missing and that's
stuff that needs to be added And so that
four helpful list is a common things
we'll come back to with some of the
strategic leaders, uh, in our ministry.
It's a, we generally a hand
selected team of very different
thinking people, different, uh,
ethnicities, different, uh, genders.
different people in our church are new and
old to kind of help them walking through
this list of what's right, what's wrong,
what's confusing and what's missing.
That's one way that you can kind
of know that you're on track.
I would encourage you to do that.
It's probably the primary thing we do.
A second thing where you can
get a broader spectrum of input
from people is using surveys.
And these are questionnaires that you
don't want to ask too many questions,
but it's an opportunity that you may
do the four helpful list, but there's
ways that you can be able to ask people
in different ways, some questions
just so you can know, am I on track?
with what we're trying to do.
A third thing you can do is, uh, interview
people randomly, and I would encourage
you, uh, and I learned this from Cheryl
Bockelder, who used to be the CEO
that turned Popeye's chicken around,
but she talked about skip leveling.
And whenever she'd visit stores, she
would always talk to the customers,
not to the store managers, not to the
employees, but to the to the end users.
And I would encourage you to to interview.
People that attend small groups to
see how what you're trying to produce.
Are you really producing and asking them
a fourth thing you can do is doing exit
interviews from groups that stop meeting
and that's going to be a great way for
you to get learnings of what caused it.
You know, uh, sometimes
it's people moving away.
Sometimes it's people, you know, there
could be a fracturing inside of the
group, but you want to do exit interviews.
And the last thing I would do is ask other
ministries that you partner with inside
your church on how are we doing with you?
How are you working?
And so part of knowing that
you're on track bleeds straight
into thinking critically, they
kind of toggle back and forth.
And I just want to make sure you had that
little piece in there before, uh, we,
uh, just, you know, closed out the show.
Derek Olson: Great show.
Great insight.
As always, Steve, anything you want to
say about the lobby later this month?
Steve Gladen: Yeah, I mean, every year,
uh, somewhere around the third week
in February, we, uh, bring together.
It's a networking event.
Uh, we'll bring together about
100 small group point people.
Uh, at the ranch, it's environments
of, uh, being able to be able
to say, uh, let me put you in
some conversations with people.
Uh, some of you like smaller
conversations, one or two people that,
you know, we foster some of you like
greater conversations, but one of the
things I look forward to the most, so.
In that three day event, three days,
two nights during the day events,
the daytime part, we're always giving
opportunities for you to have downtime
conversation time where you can kind
of meet with people one on one, and
then we'll set up little forms for
fall, smaller groups of just questions.
But what I'm really excited this year is,
is that, uh, we tackle in the evenings,
things that you naturally wouldn't.
And on the first night, we're going
to be tackling things about you that
you need to be able to be working on
things that you may not naturally go
to such as prayer and fasting and maybe
looking under the hood of who you are.
So we've got two speakers that
will do 30 minute talks on that.
And on the second night, it's a little
bit broader into the ministry where
we're going to do Uh, a talk on AI.
Uh, if your church isn't engaging in
that, I just want to tell you, please
don't be behind the bell curve in culture.
Embrace technology so that
it can serve the kingdom.
Don't get scared by what it's going to do.
And, uh, and then another quick talk on
that as we're doing a panel on, uh, you
know, what are some of the learnings
from people who have been in ministry?
20 30 40 years.
And so it's exciting time.
So lobby, you can just go up on
small group network dot com forward
slash lobby and learn more about it.
It's got its name because, you know,
when I go to conferences, I tend to get
some of my best learnings in the lobby.
Uh, not necessarily from
the plenary speakers.
And so it's a great opportunity for
you to have a three day event where
you're in nothing but the lobby.
Derek Olson: Yeah.
One of the biggest small group
networking events in the nation.
Um, it's annually there
in Rancho Capistrano.
And so, uh, like Steve said,
go to smallgroupnetwork.
com slash lobby for more info.
And maybe we'll see you in a few
weeks in sunny SoCal with Steve.
Well, uh, Steve, thanks again for
this, uh, interview and thanks to
everybody for watching or listening.
We hope you really enjoyed this
episode and we hope it empowers
you to lead better small groups.
And until next time, goodbye.
Steve Gladen: See you later guys.
Thank you for listening.
Don't forget to subscribe
wherever you listen to podcasts.
And to dive in deeper get more resources
or join the small group network just
head over to small group network.com.