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Welcome to I’m Not Even Supposed to Be Here Today, a conversational, culture-savvy podcast for folks trying to make sense of a world that has gone sideways. We’re here to unpack the issues that boggle our minds, all rooted in a little history, a little culture, a little humor, a little group therapy, and a little humility.
Chris Bevolo (00:00.846)
Hey, welcome everybody to episode 19 of I'm not even supposed to be here today. Our conversational cultural savvy podcast where folks trying to make sense of a world gone. I don't even know which way it's gone today. It's gone upside down and backwards. It's today's a it's Monday. So of course, it's gone. Monday. That's what it has make sense of a world that's gone Monday. We're gonna unpack the issues that bother our minds all rooted in a little history, a little culture, a little humor, a little group therapy.
you
place for all and the sponsor of the show. I'm joined as always by my co host Des, who is a social impact comm strategist by day, and spends her nights remixing history to make sense of the present. hi Des.
Good morrow Christopher, or good Monday, good Wednesday, whatever day this is going to launch. everything is a blur. It's spring though, so that's great. That's why I'm in yellow. But yeah.
It is 45 where I'm at. So spring sprung and then it went away. It's very sad, very sad. was in the eighties, just not even 72 hours ago. So this is the life. We also have with us two guests. One you have heard of, maybe you know, Julia Bevolo. She is our show's producer. She is a daughter and she is a resident Gen Zier.
ep19 des (01:14.582)
Hate that for you.
ep19 jayden (01:22.239)
Glad to Glad to be here.
She is joined by Jayden Torres, who's musician, gamer. threw that in there, I Julia, you're a gamer too. Also a resident Gen Zier. Welcome both of you.
Yeah, I'd say I'm a gamer.
ep19 julia (01:47.086)
Thank you. Yeah, weird to be in front of the camera this time.
Chris Bevolo (01:55.31)
Well, we're so glad that you were able to join us so we can get firsthand accounts of life as a youth in the 2020s. So that's what we're here to talk about. We are wrapping up our series on youth in crisis in America, which we are calling The Kids Are Not Alright Tokyo Drift, yet another sequel title, which is a nod to the sequel-like treatment we give to youth in crisis in this country.
it
Chris Bevolo (02:24.118)
Every generation goes through it. Every generation gets labeled. Gen Zers are no different. Because Des and I lived through a lot of the generational stuff we've talked about before in terms of Gen X and millennials, we felt we better have somebody here who could speak firsthand for Gen Zers. And thus, Julia and Jayden made the mistake of agreeing to join us today. No, just kidding. They're gonna be great. We're thrilled that they're here.
You
We're going to be talking about the Gen Z experience from, oh, I don't know, March one, 2020. I'll just pick that random date all the way through the current times. They've seen a lot growing up in their youth, which has definitely impacted what they've experienced and how they feel about the world, including everything from the Manosphere to
nihilism and doomerism to a lot of us think you're the hope for the future. You got all that right on your shoulders. But before we get to all that, as we want to do on this show, we're gonna have an icebreaker. And I don't know, we're just gonna talk about music. We're gonna talk about music for one because Jayden makes music, correct?
.
ep19 jayden (03:29.32)
Correct. Well, not so much lately, but when I have the time.
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (03:54.53)
Well, what it's to give us an idea of what you do.
Yeah, Sometimes when I get bored, I'll just go on a website that anyone can make like loops of any kind, like whether it's piano, guitar, drum lines, and I'll grab something from there that's like free to use. And I'll throw it into called Ableton. It's like a whole music software. And then I'll add whatever I think of whether it's drums or add
any kind of audio effects onto it and see if I can make something out of nothing.
Julia is that a fair description.
Yeah, I think so. I'd also take this opportunity. Jayden has two songs on Spotify that you should listen to that are very good. So you can call yourself producer songwriter in that in that way.
ep19 des (04:36.799)
I love it.
ep19 des (04:55.162)
I love that. I love that it's so much easier to actually create music. Like back in the day, I would have had to have like had like a mixer and like you plug in the different instruments and like I'd have to actually know how to play it. But like now that you can actually create that, I love that. So can't wait to check out your Spotify.
You can also use it. I have a little mixer. I just don't have the other instruments to plug into the mixer. I kind of, it would be easier if you have instruments and all of that, because then you don't have to do all the computer junk, but you can get around it either way now.
What are the names of your two songs and we'll provide a link to them on Spotify.
The first one ever is called Insomniac. And then the more recent one is called Call Me On A Rainy Day.
Nice. And you like those Julia?
ep19 julia (05:47.842)
I do, yeah, I have them in my playlists and everything.
Well, I've heard them, I've heard at least one of them that was really good. highly recommend, highly recommend. Des, is there anything new with music for you right now?
I'm at that part of life where all I do is listen to like the older stuff that I used to listen to with my youth. So no, nothing new per se, unless there's like a really like poppin' song in the elevator when I'm in a building or somewhere. But I mean, I've definitely been waxing poetic on my 90s that you love to bash. Music that was so prolific to who I am today. Like Radiohead.
Like give me some examples. Cool. They're cool. I like Radiohead.
The, yeah, yeah. mean, every decade, like the music, it's either like, like, like with eighties, right? There's this new wave dance party that I would go to in Chicago. That was incredible. Cause it's different from like that eighties music where the eighties music is just like whatever, like bubble gum pop or whatever. And you're like, this is trash. But then you go to like the really hard hitting stuff. That's how I think of like music for the nineties and like radio head and
ep19 des (07:03.338)
Oasis and all those groups and like, then to your point on the last episode matchbox 20 and like they're the nickel backs of that era and they're like, whatever, but just noting that there is always going to be that more what feels like speaking to your experience than just like making up like whatever's going to be a pop hit. But I'm curious Julia, Jayden, y'all's thoughts on what feels true to you versus like just who's cranking out pop music.
Yeah.
Yeah, I can definitely say I'm not much of a pop music enjoyer. very, I like the 90s alt rock. I like smashing pumpkins. but I also, I've kind of been in that cycle where I'm listening to my older music lately and Spotify actually just came out for their 20th anniversary. They came out with a whole playlist of the songs that you've given the most listens to over your whole time on Spotify. It's been fun.
having a little throwback session with my old Spotify songs. Lots on there. Lots of Fleetwood Mac too. One of my favorites.
ep19 des (08:09.197)
What about you, Jayden?
I am kind of in a weird spot, to be honest with my music that I listen to, because it used to be
like out of high school, all about like whatever had the most bass or whatever all the cool people were listening to. But then once I started making my own stuff, I got like more creative with sounds. So I really respect anyone who has like, you can just tell the level of production that went into it. Whether I don't even know what genre I've been listening to, I guess it's like alt.
pop, like post-hyper pop music. I don't know where that falls in, but I'll go back and forth between that and like old kind of pop rock music.
Hearing you say that kind of puts me in like, you're like in your Brian Wilson era or your like, what was it? The Beatles? very like one of the last albums where they're actually experimenting with sound and all that.
ep19 julia (09:13.794)
The Beatles got very experimental. That's good.
I'm just against like, what's it called? When the industry just like puts out whatever for somebody just to get things out. Yes, that. I'm very against industry plant type music. But other than that, I've listened to about everything.
dead.
ep19 julia (09:26.368)
industry plants.
Chris Bevolo (09:37.114)
Well, I'm just gonna say that I've called up on Wikipedia, the cities 97 sampler and I'm gonna I'm gonna riff on you and you tell me whether you think you missed these bands, Des. Okay, because this is what I was talking about. It wasn't smashing pumpkins who are super cool. We're talking about things like delimitri. By the way, I think I call them Dell, Dell, a Monaco or something.
You got called them like a fruit brand or whatever. Last time I said the Rembrandts. Remember any of these Bruce Hornsby, Big Head Todd of the Monsters, Mark Cohn, Jim Blossoms, Indigo Girls who actually liked, Freddie Jones Band, Dave Matthews Band. Come on. Come on.
I've
ep19 des (10:16.664)
Nellum, I've never heard of that.
ep19 des (10:31.374)
Probably half those bands I'd never heard of and as a person that was an avid MTV and VH1 watcher, I have questions for this list. Because Delmonico, whatever it was called, I've never heard of that.
Del Amitri
Edwin McCain, Sister Hazel, this is just bringing it all back and about. Duncan Sheik, not Kenny Loggins, he's from the 70s.
Kenny Loggins.
He was on there!
ep19 des (10:55.768)
These are like, okay, these are like one hit wonders.
No, they're not. of these people, I mean, maybe they are. Maybe some of them are. I think Dellimitri had one hit, but shows up on the city sample or multiple times. Anyway, this is what I was talking about. I don't think that's alternative rock. It's just alternative. I don't know. don't know. Cities 97. That's all I got to say. So I got to say.
Thank
don't know what city this is, but.
ep19 des (11:21.64)
I henceforth do not trust Cities 97 because this list is a real whack.
It's still around. They're just different now. They're not alternatives. They've switched over more to the pop music. At least last I heard, I don't listen to radio anymore these days, but...
Is Cities97 still around? my gosh.
Chris Bevolo (11:40.874)
sure I'll get tons of hate mail from people who loved all that stuff.
Cities 97's big fans.
Yep. All the big fans of say 97. Okay. So let's move on to the focus of our whole show here, which is you guys and all the stuff that you dealt with as youth in crisis. So officially we went up to 2019 in our last episode.
But I think like if you guys want to dip into the late 2010s into the 20, you know, like 2018, 2019, that's cool. Because you were in high school then for you. We know there's some folks older than you as Gen Z some they're younger. So we don't want to be too, too prescriptive. But really, we were focused on 2020, which is some things happen in 2020. But also you all grew up with a lot of stuff that shaped you. And so we'll talk about some of that too.
But I don't know where you want to start, Des, I don't know if you're, if you want to launch, launch into this and pose some questions for our resident, our Gen Zers in residence, we shall say, who are willing to share with us their life experiences of youth in crises.
ep19 des (13:00.782)
Yeah, I would say like with each theme of with this episode, it's really looking at like the that big piece of technology that really shaped the era. Like it wasn't everything, but it was a big piece of shaped it. And so as we were looking at the last episode, we were looking at, course, the nineties, the invention of the Internet, and then the twenty two thousands with social media and 2010s with the smartphone and not having access to everything right there in your phone.
What I noticed is of course, like, you know, throughout like any of this type of history is that like now everything is moving so much faster than it did. And like the culture shift is like rapid. In fact, like even the topic that sparked all of this, the, the Manosphere and this conversation around like, you know, the boys are not okay. Men are not okay. Young men are not okay. Like even that is like almost feels passe now at this point. And it's only been, I mean, it's
been going on for the last like a year or two as far as the conversation, but really like sprung up from the, you know, looksmaxxing and Clavicular recent, but like even that, like I said, even that news has moved so fast. But as you're looking back at your, uh, your teens in your early twenties, you know, what were some of the things that you felt like, wow, this really shaped a lot of like what I experienced, what my friends experience. So like I said, like social media was a big piece for me. Like I,
the way that we interacted. I'm curious for you, Julia, Jayden, what was that one or couple of things that really shaped your younger years?
For me it was definitely social media as well. I just think it evolved. Like I know in the last episode, Des, you mentioned friends lists on MySpace, I think. We had that too. It was just in the form of best friends lists on Snapchat when that first came out. It was such a huge deal. And your best friends list was public to all your friends. They could see who your top five were. So me, I was...
ep19 julia (15:02.434)
the ripe age of 12, I think, when I downloaded Snapchat, so that was huge, and seeing who everyone was on your best friends list, it became kind of competitive, and I feel like social media just kind of got bigger throughout the late teens and the 2020s. It never really went away, it just evolved into different ways that it affected us.
Okay.
ep19 des (15:28.739)
Yeah, there were like so many different forms that like came and went. Like MySpace was there for quite a while, for a little bit. then my Facebook has been dominant and then there was a little bit Instagram, but now it's like there's kick, there's, I don't even know. You tell me.
Yeah.
ep19 julia (15:42.67)
the big one is TikTok. Kik is also one that I thought of last week too, when you mentioned being on the forums and how you were too young to be on the forums because you guys were interacting with maybe people who outside of your age range. Definitely when I was younger, Kik was like a messaging app and I had some friends that maybe were talking to people they shouldn't have been at our young age of 12 to 13. So it's always there. It's just different.
40 year old men
ep19 julia (16:12.738)
presents differently.
ep19 des (16:17.614)
Jayden and that kind of makes me think of you as a gamer. I started hearing more about some years ago of Periscope and Twitch and streaming and all of that. Was any of that influential for you?
Yeah, actually
Everyone, well, I was kind of on like a contender's team for a video game. So I was kind of in that area. I just didn't stream that often. But to like the big streamers, that was like my dream when I was a kid. Like if I could just play video games for a living, have some fun. But.
You name some I might know some of them that which is also scary, but can you name some that you aspire to be like?
man, I haven't really watched Dreams for a couple of years now, but Spoonkid2, he plays Rust and I played a lot of Rust, so I could see myself doing that. So I'd watch him all the time. Otherwise, xQc played the same game as me. He has evolved so much since he's been on Overwatch. Now, I'm not so sure if I'd want any of that.
ep19 julia (17:26.072)
Yeah.
ep19 jayden (17:32.001)
But...
What do you mean by evolved?
Well, he used to just stream like competitive video game content, but now it's evolved to like just chatting or reaction videos. And now he like, it feels more like a job rather than something he enjoys doing, I think. And like farming for content, whether it means like raging or breaking things or it just doesn't feel as genuine, I suppose.
You know, you bring up something that's really interesting that has kind of come up in this whole conversation, especially just like in this era of technology and social media and influencing and what have you, is that like, in a way, like we've lost the fun, the hobby of it. It like everything has to be like capitalism and capitalized. Like to your point where it's like this thing that I used to just do for fun, whether it's like making videos or whatever.
So much of it has just come increasingly around like, I got to optimize for like viewership and like all of this kind of stuff. Do you feel like that has been like a major shift that you've been kind of watch happen over these last couple of years?
ep19 jayden (18:47.533)
For sure, for a while it actually confused me. So was starting to feel like maybe, maybe I'm too old for this stuff and I just don't get, maybe I just don't get it. But seeing it now, it's like, we're doing a challenge where every time you donate, I can't sleep for two hours. And it's just like so much. Please donate to me that it feels less like, like when I first was watching Twitch.
I don't even know if they're still using Twitch, when it would be like a smaller streamer, you'd feel more connected because during COVID, you couldn't really go out. So it felt like your own little community in there. But now it's less of that and it's more of just like, I don't even know what to call it. Kind of like, I watch this guy. So that's part of my personality now. Instead of the
Well, and I.
You know, you
sorry. I was just gonna say I don't want to stereotype by just talking to Jayden about video games because I know Julia is a big gamer. Do you have me? Do you have influencers that influenced you? Streamers?
ep19 jayden (19:48.097)
Sorry.
ep19 julia (19:53.548)
Yes.
into gaming, I, I started watching shroud on Twitch, who I don't really follow anymore because kind of like XQC, I feel he's kind of evolved away from what got him popular, but he was a ex CS Counterstrike pro player. So he was a professional e-sports player and I just watched him cause he seemed like the guy to watch. And then I kind of found my own.
kind of community on there. actually met quite a few people that I still talk to to this day on Twitch from a smaller streamer. Like Jayden said, you can kind of build a community on there. I think that's kind of a big part of our experiences with social media is finding community. Because I did also find community on places like Twitter when I was a lot younger. Dad, I don't know if you remember taking me to like Troye Sivan concerts, but
I found a lot of people on there that I'm still in touch with today. So I don't know, it's kind of all evolved into finding community, but I don't really, really engage with Twitch or streaming much anymore. Kind of feels different now, kind of like a side hustle culture, I think is a big part of our age group is side hustles.
It feels
Chris Bevolo (21:21.876)
it feels like there's overlap with the Manosphere too. And maybe I'm just conflating things, but the, some of the, some of the streamers that I think of, I remember because of the controversy. So like Dr. Disrespect, who was a huge streamer who was hilarious, who then basically went down in flames because of involvement with underage girls, PewDiePie, like
No, I think you're absolutely right.
ep19 julia (21:33.304)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bevolo (21:48.548)
the number what was he was the number one youtuber or something I can't remember what his status was. Tons of controversy. Nick Mercs is someone who I knew from Call of Duty streaming, who also like all of these guys seem to have made it big. Not all of them. Many of them seem to have made it big and then crashed and burned in many ways.
Yeah.
ep19 des (22:02.766)
Thank
ep19 julia (22:10.936)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Okay.
loaded.
Yeah, Jayden, so you mentioned COVID, right? And like, that was obviously a big turning point for like so many of us. Like Chris, I know I started, you and I started working together during COVID. And I guess had COVID not happened, I don't know that we would be here like today, like six years later, like doing this podcast, you know what I mean? Cause we did bond over like a lot of the stuff that was going on and like kind of what you you were learning and
You
ep19 des (22:47.778)
what I was experiencing, but I'm curious, just given, you know, knowing that from like a professional standpoint, there was obviously a lot of like upheaval that happened because, you know, being in school during that time period, but also, and I think Jayden, you were starting to get into this was what kind of shifted in like how we communicate and connect with one another and that everything had to go online and that like, essentially here we are like six years later of like, just like,
ironically online even more so than before. But just curious from both of you, Julia, Jayden, how did the COVID experience kind of shape you and what was the experience back then and how do you feel like it shaped you today?
I think COVID shaped me greatly. So that happened while I was, it was spring of my freshman year in college and I was attending Montana State. So I was far from home and everything, you like you said, it shifted online and it was a huge adjustment and I had to move back home when lockdown started. my college experience got totally disrupted and it actually led to.
at that moment in time, the end of my college experience, because I ended up dropping out because I really struggled with the online learning, which is interesting because then I went later and got my bachelor's degree online. But I think it is totally affected the way I socialize now. I actually find it really difficult to socialize offline. And Des, you use the term chronically online. And I think that encapsulates who I am.
perfectly. Like I am chronically online. I am always on social media and it's something I want to change but I feel like that's how you kind of coped when COVID was happening. So I don't know if it's the same for Jayden but it has changed how I socialize completely. I don't feel like I know how to socialize in person very well anymore.
ep19 jayden (24:48.685)
It's definitely shaped me a lot. I don't think I realized it right away because at the time I was fresh out of high school and I was actually visiting, I was living in Texas at the time and I was visiting Minnesota and then that's when like the big every like, be careful happened. And I was like,
Yeah, Jayden, how was your experience? How was it shaped to you?
ep19 jayden (25:18.349)
in the middle of Missouri getting gas and my dad called me and he's like, Hey, do you hear about this? And I was like, yeah, I'm being careful, whatever. And then I got to Minnesota and it was like, everything was locked down. I ended up staying just because my family's here and I ended up kind of bunkering down. And I think that's what shaped me to be more of an inside person and like on the computer.
I'm really glad I didn't have to do school because I did an online class. Granted, I was never the best student in general. Definitely could not do online school.
But other than that, with socialization, definitely, everyone I talk to and it feels like more in person is on Discord or if I'm playing games, but I never like go out or try to meet new people unless I meet them in a video game.
I know Chris, that's like one of your, like gripes around like what Scott Galloway, your, your buddy, your twin, about like what his advice is for young people today. Cause which it's kind of hard to say it like, that that's what you need. But I would love to just Chris kind of hear your take on, especially given like what we're hearing about, like not necessarily like socializing versus like the way that we socialize back in the day, which
Mm.
ep19 des (26:46.978)
Health-wise, I'm not sure that was the best either, but yeah, I'm curious your thoughts on that.
It's very weird. Because he just in bringing that up made me think of myself. So I'll end with that. But I think I think what Galloway is trying to get at is right. And he comes at it in two different. It's partly right. He comes out in two different angles. One, he's been very outspoken about return to office for entry level 20 somethings.
And I have been throughout my career staunchly, I don't give a crap where you work, when you work. If you want to work from the Ukraine, if you want to work from Mars, if you want to work at three in the morning, who cares as long as you're getting your work done. But that's easy for me to say, because I'm established. I'm a knowledge worker, all that good stuff. I tend to agree with Galloway that like for people starting out, being in an environment,
That was a big deal when I was starting out. That was probably was like a social circle. the other way he's come at it is that he, he leans into it, both Jade and Julia said, which is like not as much comfort, in live social settings, that kind of thing. That also is very important, but where he comes at it that I think is actually light. don't know what the litigious is that the right word; He's basically decrying the fact that.
Gen Z has declined its alcohol use. And his quote was, your 25 year liver will survive, it's more important for your 25 year old social development. So he's essentially saying you should go out and drink just for the social interaction, which I think is incredibly harmful advice. Like, yes, you should go out more, 100%.
Chris Bevolo (28:44.426)
Should you go out just to drink? I think that that's totally harmful advice. Now here's the asterisk and then I'll be done, Des. I was a complete introvert, totally shy, just like not outgoing, all of those things back in 1984. So there was no choice to go online and that was who I was. And I will honestly say that I didn't even drink until I was a senior in high school, which is pretty even.
even then that was not the norm that was late. It was drinking that opened me up to social circles. I met way more people at keggers at parties in college, the world was wide open. So I guess I am Scott Galloway at the end of the day. No, I do not encourage GEn Z to go out and build social interaction by drinking. I really don't because I think the risk of that's way too big. But
Hello. So.
Chris Bevolo (29:42.026)
I can understand where he's coming from. It's just terrible advice. How's that?
What if this is our like, follow me, what if this is our like industrial, well, you all not mine, industrial revolution, right? Where I'm going all the way back to prohibition era. Like alcohol has always been a problem and like it was crazy. They had to make.
like laws and legislation around it. That's how like out of hand it got, right? And then like everything was fine. Like we drank like, and then my era was like the binge drinking on the weekends, college keggers that Chris went to. But now we're kind of on this precipice of like looking at like health and like how we spend our time in different ways. So what if this is just a pathway to a new way of existing instead of like relying on the old door? So in a way it almost feels like
when Scott Galloway, he's saying like, no, you have to have, have to go through this right of passage in order to like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, well, what if they're creating a whole new path or pathway? I'm just curious. I'm going to call y'all J and J. Any thoughts on that, especially given that like a lot of the socialization again, I'm like,
on my like Instagram strategists profiles that I like scroll past every day. There's all this talk around like, everything is about run clubs or like, you know, no one's going to clubs anymore because the DJ is at the coffee shop and it's like daytime like parties, you know, sober with coffee or what have you. Just kind of curious. Y'all kind of take on this of like, you know, how you're experiencing life, how you want to versus like these people that are telling you like you need to go do this thing that like isn't necessarily a part of like what you do, which is drinking.
ep19 julia (31:24.95)
yeah, I feel like I've seen a push toward health lately. I get a lot of ads and stuff for run clubs in Minneapolis. And part of that I think is a great way to help people kind of rebuild community. think for our age group, if we, I mean, I feel like personally, I lost a lot of that socialization and going to bars and stuff. when I lost my college experience, I just didn't have that.
so I think it's a great way for people to meet each other, to meet other young people. but I don't know. Some of the health things can be kind of difficult to see on a daily basis too, cause I feel like we get a lot of GLP-1 ads and stuff that can be tough to see for your body image, which is always a problem. We talked about heroin, chic chic last week.
and now it's more Ozempic. So I feel like it could be kind of a slippery slope, but I don't know. It's tough. It's, I think, tough for people to find spaces they feel like they belong. But at the same time, there's a lot more options cropping up that are different from just going to the bar and getting wasted.
Thank you.
ep19 des (32:45.73)
Is Jayden any thoughts on that? Like as I'm looking at you, like I'm not that you're the poster child for Manosphere by any means, but like I'm wondering like what's kind of showing up on your algorithm of, know, what does it mean to be like the best version of yourself possible?
Yeah. So my algorithm's in a weird spot where I get
both sides of that. Like I get the guy saying, do have to do this every day and use this method to get hunter eyes? But then on the other side of it, I see like other podcasters talking about like how crazy it is. These people are like, like the whole goal is to make yourself look better to other men. And it's just like a whole rabbit hole that seems never ending. And like it gets to a point where
If you are like sucked in enough, there were these people, I don't even know what it was called, but they were literally breaking their bones in their face. And like, I don't understand how you go that deep and not see any red flags. But.
would be looksmaxxing looksmaxxing with clavicular.
ep19 des (33:54.829)
Yeah, so what is that?
Yeah.
Yeah, that whole route was... I haven't heard anything about that specifically until one day I just saw people talking about it and I went down my own little rabbit hole and I was like, this is insane. It's just not worth it.
I'm glad that you said that about like, you're kind of hearing from both sides because I'm going into like essentially how media shapes things and like frames the narrative around things. like when you hear or watch all these different like exposés that came out like maybe like a month or two ago around the looksmaxxing and clavicular and all that kind of stuff.
the way it's talked about it makes it seem like everyone is just like inundated with this thing. And that you're like, everyone's a part of it, right? Which I was like, that can't possibly be. And like, basically you're just kind of, it just depends on like kind of what you subscribe to. And maybe it's even like a younger audience thing. Like maybe even like like a gen alpha is experiencing more of that than gen Z. But I'm curious as you are kind of just navigating that on your feed, you know,
ep19 des (35:10.284)
Where is your head? I think you had just kind of said, you're like, wow, that's too deep for me. I'm not going there. But do you know any folks or I've seen folks, you know, that have kind of gone down that rabbit hole or like just kind of seen any changes in that way?
Not personally, I haven't. just see like the TikTok of I tried this method for this many days and then they like show the difference and it's either like not at all or like super like you can tell that
it's edited and they're just trying to promote either a product or I don't know what the other goal would be, but it just seems like not real. Like I've tried a couple of things. Like if somebody says, there's this exercise you can do for your eyes. I'll like try it just to see what it's about. But I can definitely see how people get like really deep into that stuff, but not for me personally.
Yeah.
ep19 des (36:13.262)
Okay, you mentioned Hunter eyes. What is that? Is that like the same thing as like when you chew on the thing to like get your jaws to pop? Your jaw line to pop? Like what is Hunter eyes?
of like, I don't even know. I stumbled across it on TikTok and it's some muscle in your eye makes you look more masculine or something. So people would exercise that part of their eye to make it more like there's like a ratio that the looksmaxxers follow. I don't even know what they call it, but you need like somewhat
certain angular eyes and even more to it than that.
When math gets involved, that's when you know it's a problem.
This is interesting, very interesting to hear. feel like, is this like the first time that...
ep19 jayden (36:57.997)
Yeah, let's never get a math.
I mean.
ep19 julia (37:06.004)
looks for men like this have been so prevalent, like looksmaxxing things because you you bring up like hunter eyes and like there's ways that you're supposed to look to look attractive or whatever and I feel like this is what I've heard my whole life you know on YouTube there's all tutorials for women and girls and how to do the best makeup and everything so is this like the first time it's been that way for men?
Chris Bevolo (37:36.788)
I we, we touched on going back to the fifties and Jacqueline lane about physical strength for men being something that you would achieve outside the normal life. mean, men used to be stronger in general, just because there was a lot more blue collar work. So there's been that. I mean, there's been like, you want to be muscle bound. But in terms of
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (38:05.342)
In terms of body image or facial image, I can't recall. mean, I could be wrong, but I can't recall. I mean, you're always grooming male grooming, but that was just, you know, like how you, your haircut and your, certainly fashion and your beard, but changing your looks in some way, physically trying to change them.
Mm-hmm.
Chris Bevolo (38:32.778)
I mean, I mean, why are we not what's curious is I guess maybe we know the answer, but it seems like a natural next step in that is all the things you described Julia for girls and women, which have been around forever for men. Why isn't clavicular trying makeup? Maybe he is. I don't know. but that seems like the natural next step.
Okay. Okay.
Well, cause makeup is gay. It's too feminine.
Chris Bevolo (38:59.148)
But hitting yourself in a jaw with a hammer is like, there's a lot there's a lot of guys that would go like, they wouldn't say they wouldn't use those derogatory terms, but they would also say, you're spending way too much time on your looks. That's not cool for a guy. So there's that side of it. So if clavicular others are okay, like trying to change their hunter eyes. But I think
haha
Chris Bevolo (39:25.994)
Julia I'd love to hear more about the body image that you brought up because I mean, that's been an issue for I don't know, Des, I'm sure millennials, I know it goes back before that. But I'm trying to, wait, hold on. I'm trying to imagine the future where it's not just airbrushed photos, it's AI. you, I mean, it's all fake to Jayden's point.
Well, it's.
ep19 julia (39:49.506)
think that future is kind of here already with AI being used in advertisements or what have you. But that body image thing is, I mean, that's something I've personally struggled with my entire life because it's just always been there. And I think social media has made that so much worse.
Ear? Yeah.
ep19 julia (40:15.534)
because there's that competition aspect with others your age, but then you also have, you follow and see all these celebrities that are doing everything they can and they just look perfect. not a lot of it isn't real also. It's never been real. now it's even a little more scary with AI because people will try to reach those unattainable bodies and they will hurt themselves, like breaking your face bones to do that.
But yeah, I think social media has made that a lot harder. And I think now with GLP-1s in the picture, mean, like every other ad on TikTok I get is for slimming down and late weight loss you can buy a packet of powder and put it in your water and you're supposed to slim down and be super skinny just in time for summer. it's just, it's cyclical. Like you guys, the whole point of this, it's all cyclical. It's just come back even stronger now, I think.
ep19 des (41:15.65)
Yeah, I'll touch on both of these for masculine and feminine. The feminine, it's been the cyclical process of like, skinny is in, curvy is in, skinny is in. So you have the 20s, the flapper era that's skinny, and then you get to the 50s and the Marilyn Monroe and the curvaceousness, and then you get back to 60s and twiggy.
Mm-hmm.
ep19 des (41:38.668)
And then, you know what I mean? Just like back and forth. And then it was like the Kardashian era where everybody's got like a little, implants into the body. And now it's like, get rid of all of that. And then there was a touch of a, body positivity with Lizzo and that health at any size was like a whole thing. And now it's just like, nah, babe, you need to optimize for thinness with this powder, this pill, this shot.
home.
ep19 julia (41:59.488)
Yeah, I think we backslid so far after the body positivity thing, because you're absolutely right. was, mean, the 2000s were thin, thin, thin, and then we got body positivity. We had Lizzo and Megan Trainor, and now we've backslid so far. I don't know if you guys have seen Megan Trainor lately, but she does not look the same, which is okay. But I think in some cases it goes way too far, and I don't want to...
name names of any celebrities, but it feels like every new premiere or award or event or show, you just see a new female celebrity who is just gaunt. And it's horrible to see because it looks, you know, it doesn't look good. Like you feel bad for them that they feel like they have to do that. But then you see that and you internalize that and you're like, well, do I need to be getting that much skinnier? And that's just
to.
ep19 julia (42:56.78)
The way it is now and I don't like that.
And I.
And I think what you're up against, it's different and like feels even more like, God, like unattainable in a way is, you you go back to that era where it's like, okay, anyone that looked that way, was mostly celebrities. So anyone that was on television or in magazines. And then once social media became the thing where it's like everyday people that are posting their selfies and are influencers and you're like, well, dang, like if this like, if, you know,
Jamie up the street looks like that, then like, I gotta look like that. And so getting back to your earlier question, Julia, around like, okay, is this like the first time for men that it's getting to this level? I would say to like this extreme and at this age, yeah, this feels different. Because earlier on there was the whole like alpha male thing and like the.
Mm-hmm.
ep19 des (43:56.67)
I don't know if Jayden, did you ever hear of this guy, Alpha M his channel on YouTube? I would say throughout the 2010s and maybe like early 2000s, he was like the premier, like one of the premier like style guys, which was more about like grooming and dressing. And so like in my, like in the 2010s, 2000s, have you, it was the, the metrosexual.
think so, no.
ep19 des (44:26.993)
of like, do you dress? like men were dressing better. So then it's like, oh, like, you know, are they gay or they are metrosexual? Right. But to your point earlier around the like, oh, like makeup is like everything is about this idea of like, oh, I don't want to come off as like looking quote unquote gay or like I want masculinity. But I'm I'm thinking of the show, Chris, that we just both were really into, which is St. Louis DTF.
and how so much of that was as you, mean, spoilers, not deep spoilers, but like there's a lot of conversation around how much of that show was around the friendship and the relationship between the men and like how they're building like this really deep connection versus like, Jayden, what you had kind of shared about the like, okay, I'm doing all of this stuff like for the...
male gaze, G-A-Z-E, like I'm trying to look good for the dudes. That's so interesting. like kind of getting back to that, what is the connection and friendship? I'm curious, like what does that look like today among young men, especially in a world where it's like you're getting information around like, you know, like dudes can be close, like we can be like, you know, like really like have close friendships versus like I'm competing against you.
or also versus like, like, you know, the no homo era, which essentially has like a version of that, like with each decade. I'm just kind of curious your, your take as like a, you know, what is it like being a young man, having friends today? And what are you up against? What, what, what, what, what are the feeds telling you versus what you're actually experiencing?
I feel like it's a pretty fine line between like if you and your friends are just like trying to better yourselves I feel like that's okay and it's more friendly and like give each other tips on whether it's clothes or hairstyles but then it's more of like the quote-unquote looksmaxxing communities that are like there's literally like some filter they use I think on their videos and they like compare them
ep19 jayden (46:42.305)
their faces to each other's like, I got a better score than you. Therefore I'm just better than you. And there's a very fine line between bettering yourself or belittling everybody else.
I.
But I don't have much experience with any of that. I just like to watch it burn, I suppose. But I can definitely see it being, it could be positive, but I feel like more frequently it'd be a negative trying to be better than everyone else rather than to just better yourself.
So I want to ask about one of the themes that this this whole series is based on is kind of the idea of youth in crisis, which we spent a lot of time on the challenges that you all have faced. There's others, but but it's also kind of the the old people just being like, get your hair cut kids these days, right. So millennials had their labels, Gen X had their labels, even boomers had their labels when they were youth in crisis.
You know, I don't know what the settled label is for Gen Z. but the three top contenders that I found, I would love your take on this. One is chronically online, which I think we have talked about a little bit. and so you're reinforcing it a little bit, but I mean, both of you all work outside the home. It's not like you're, you know, living in a cave necessarily, but you've talked about a little bit, but the other two to me are, well, we'll get your feedback.
Chris Bevolo (48:16.62)
One is lazy slash entitled. So the entitled thing, I think, is a little bit of a millennial crossover. Millennials were so accused of being entitled, like your first job, you expect to be the boss kind of thing. The lazy thing has emerged more for Gen Zers. And I think, I mean, I had a senior executive tell me he's slash she believes all Gen Zers are lazy.
like dead on, no exception. They're just all lazy. My thoughts in response to that was you sound like an old man saying get off my lawn. And also, I think there's something to be said for Gen Z having figured out that, gee, look what how millennials are struggling. Look at Gen X, who killed themselves for what. And so really taking work life balance seriously in a way that millennials tried as well.
And that being labeled as lazy. So think about lazy and entitled. The other is snowflake, which also has political connotations, but as a generation, you know, everybody credits you or discredits you with everything from microaggressions to, you know, cause a lot of that happened on college campuses. So, so how do you two feel about your, like if you had to vote for one, which one?
I we didn't get to vote on ours. I didn't get to vote for the entitled Millennials or the slacker gen Xers. But what do you think is where it's going to end up? Or how do feel about those?
Well, I think the lazy entitled one, unfortunately, is kind of at the forefront, which I hate. And you mentioned this, but we have looked at the world and we are supposed to be coming out of college into this and buying our first homes. to me, as someone my age, 24, who just
ep19 julia (50:26.028)
graduate from college, all of that looks so unattainable. It is ridiculous. And then you get Kim Kardashian saying, no one wants to work anymore. And it's just like, well, we want to. It's just we don't want to accept subpar working conditions, which is maybe where the entitled comes from. But we also have been handed the society where it's like we seem we've been left out.
strung out to dry, you know, and we aren't being taken care of like we hoped we would have. So I think we have a lot of, I don't know the word, but we're upset about that. So I think, I think the lazy entitled has come to the forefront, but I disagree with that. I don't think we deserve it. But obviously who thinks they deserve, you don't think you deserve slacker. So.
ep19 jayden (51:24.743)
I think it goes even deeper than just working. Like people are saying, Gen Z is killing the movie theater industry. They're not doing this and that, but we just can't afford it. It's either that or we don't have the time to, because we
Mm-hmm.
of them.
ep19 jayden (51:40.223)
Everyone has a side hustle just to afford to live. And like, we wanna do all this stuff, we just can't, can't afford it. So I think it's not a very fair thing to say.
So -
Chris Bevolo (51:54.444)
So the other label I left out, but now that you both have spoken, I'm going to throw it in there is kind of like you're, you're starting to be ascribed the labels of nihilist and, and doomerism, which both of you just kind of described a situation that feels pretty, I'm not going to say either one of you are nihilists in what you're saying, but like it's bleak. And so you see people saying like, well, I'm not going to say for retirement because
Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (52:23.98)
not going be around, either because of climate change or AI or what have you. Good luck building a career, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, could that emerge as a dark horse in the Gen Z label race?
I feel like a lot of us, I don't want--I mean obviously-- I can't speak for a whole generation of people, but I mean, at least for me and the circles, I feel a part of it feels a lot like that. Like, why bother saving for retirement if we're not even sure if Florida will be above water by the time we can retire, you know? So I think we have a lot of that and I think we should challenge that. I think we should try to change that because
We want to save the world, you know? It just feels hard. We feel stuck.
ep19 des (53:17.922)
You know, that term nihilism, like to me, like what you just said sounds more like y'all are realists or pragmatists. You're like, you see what's coming down the road and you're like, okay, well, let me figure out like a hack for that. And like, as I'm looking at the definition of nihilism, it's like essentially the rejection of any kind of like existence of meaning and purpose. So I'm curious, is there like a feeling because like to your point, it's like,
What's the point if like all of us are going to be underwater in like 30 years and like data centers have like ruined our entire like ecosystem. So like, what am I even doing? Like, do you find that people are just like sitting, letting it happen? Or do you find that people are like, I'm going to figure it out for me and mine and like, but I'm not going to get caught up in all this other stuff. Or is there like some other third and maybe it's like a mix of all three, but just kind of curious what you all are.
seeing around that.
I think it's kind of a mix because you have people that like really want to change the way things are and they'll speak out and make accounts on this and that but nothing ever actually happens off of that and people will like agree and say yeah that's bad we should we should fight back
and then nothing ever really comes from it. Otherwise, I think there's more, most of the people that kind of just go with the flow and see what happens, unfortunately.
ep19 julia (54:49.742)
I'm going to say something controversial. think that's kind of how I feel about the no Kings protests. I think it's fantastic that we are out in the streets and saying, we don't want this, but nothing's being done after these protests. And we need to keep doing it. I think we need to keep talking and fighting against this powerlessness that we feel. But I think we're kind of stuck in this where we.
ep19 julia (55:18.122)
express our disappointment or frustration or anger, but then nothing comes from it. Like Jayden said, like we speak up and we do these things, but I think that nihilism, the what's the point comes up because nothing really happens. It feels like nothing happens and Gen Z isn't quite in those power positions yet. You know, they're still being held by the boomers. So I feel like we feel like we
can try but we can't make change yet. At least that's how I feel about these things. I'm sure people feel a lot differently but that's how my experiences have kind of felt like. I feel like nothing's gonna happen or change.
It feels like the poster child for what you're describing is David Hogg, and you're all familiar with who that is. Right, so here's somebody who is a child of a, you know, basically, unfortunately has become known because of a school shooting. Very outspoken on gun control and school shootings and all that.
Yes, I am.
Chris Bevolo (56:26.868)
And now has moved into more broader politics. And I can't remember. He joined the DNC in some official capacity and at the same time was raising funds to oust certain to like basically primary, democratic establishment folks. And he was thrown out of the DNC essentially. I I'm, I'm paraphrasing here. So if I'm getting the facts wrong, please.
huh.
Chris Bevolo (56:56.064)
bear with me, but that's essentially the story of what happened. So here's a guy who's very smart, very outspoken, very passionate, has experienced the real crises that you guys have talked about, as we hardly even talked about school shootings and how they ramped up and you know, you had to go through your active shooter drills and all that. And basically try to make things change. He still is trying, right? He still is raising money. He's still out there fighting. So
Peace.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Chris Bevolo (57:24.684)
He has faced setbacks, which I think are more of a sign of the old people yelling, get off my lawn than anything. But he also shows like, all right, well, then fine. If you're not going to let me do it through the established channels, I'll go off and do it on my own. So and he's had some success. Go ahead.
of hope though recently for, because of New York City and Zohran Mamdani. I love seeing the stuff that he is doing and I'm so sad he can not run for president, but it is giving me hope that we can get more of these people out here are really trying to make a change and are standing up to the people that try to stop it, you know?
I love seeing the stuff that he's been doing. It's great that he's like a beacon of hope for us.
ep19 des (58:17.378)
And that's the thing, it's always the younger generation that's going to bring that. And that those, the boomers that are in power right now, they did a version of that in their earlier days, but then like this thing happened in life and time, I guess, where you're still trying to hold onto that particular thing, just like I'm trying to hold onto the 90s.
Mm-hmm.
ep19 des (58:39.438)
And that it's always going to be that younger generation. And so that is the hope. But I would say what makes this feel just like so daunting and maybe even dare I say nihilist is that there are so many more issues that everyone's having to fight against now. You'd mentioned like, okay, like, yeah, I should be out here thinking about buying a house, like graduate, like I.
graduated, there's no jobs, AI is taking all the jobs. I pay has stayed pretty like, whatever. So I don't have to make enough money because the housing prices have gone like insane. And I'm now having to have like five different like side hustles to like make that money just to like pay rent, not even like think about saving. So yeah, I'm not have time to go to a movie and do something frivolous. And now movies are like $20. He's been like $5. That's insane. I'm like buying candy and all that. I'm like that.
Is there?
I need to get into the movie business. But then you're being blamed for all the things. But that's essentially a part of being young is a part of just being blamed for the things. Each generation has a version of that. And I just hope that one day we just break that mold of being like, because A, pitting generations against each other. I'm like,
Yeah.
ep19 julia (59:47.523)
Yeah.
ep19 des (01:00:03.892)
Some things are just that I'm 20 years old and it just is like every 22 year old I know did that 22 year old thing. It doesn't, that doesn't like define like, you know, who we are as a generation. But yeah, I'm glad to just hear that idea of that hope and that essentially it is always that younger generation that brings like the next thing. And so it's like, let's just try to remember that, try to remember that.
Yeah, I do have a lot of overall hope for Gen Z. I think we have a lot of passionate people that want to change. So I think we can do it.
Chris Bevolo (01:00:42.624)
Yeah. Good. Good. That's a good place to wrap. Let's just wrap there. Let's wrap on a hopeful note. Let's wrap on hope. Jade and Julia, thank you so much for being here. What's the next video game you're to play?
Yeah.
Let's rap on hope.
ep19 julia (01:00:58.584)
I'm gonna play Ghost of Tsushima. That's my next game. On my list. The first. The first one. Nope.
the first one. Have you ever played it? It's the most beautiful video game, maybe of all time. It's incredible. Jayden, Jayden, how about you?
I'm so excited. That's on my list.
ep19 jayden (01:01:17.528)
It's been a few years, so I think I gotta go back to Skyrim. It's been a favorite of mine since I was a kid, with all the new mods, it's like a fresh game every time I play.
Wow.
Chris Bevolo (01:01:29.812)
That is an amazing game. Des, any video games in your future?
I think I'm out. I'm still in my problematic Grand Theft Auto era. I just, I'm waiting for that new one to come out, but yeah.
Hold on for, is it six? Grand Theft Auto six? They've been promising for three years. It's coming.
Yeah.
Yeah, we've been waiting 20 years for this game. If you want to.
Chris Bevolo (01:01:54.304)
Fair enough. Good answers. All right. Well, Julia and Jayden, thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate you guys sharing your insights.
Hopefully it wasn't too doomy and gloomy.
Thanks for having us.
Not too doom and gloomy. No, not at all. As as always, thank you for joining us. Everybody thank you for joining us as well. Hopefully this helped you cope in some way, especially if you're Gen Z here. But even if you're not, look, we have we have a lot of promise in our future with these folks. So I'm very hopeful as well. Please like and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to or watch your pods.
give us those five stars on Apple podcast, which helps ensure our profile rises and more people can see it in here about us. Visit bearing 287.com or follow me on sub stack to access other helpful content from our network. And I am Chris Bevolo and on behalf of I'm not even supposed to be here today and bearing 287. Thank you for listening. We will see you next time. Bye.
ep19 julia (01:03:03.532)
Yay!