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In Ecclesiastes 3:11, we read that God makes everything beautiful in its time. It is comforting to know that nothing is wasted in God's economy, but all of it will be used for our good and His glory. You're invited to join us for poignant conversations and compelling interviews centered on believing for His beauty in every season.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:01.754)
Well, hello, hello, hello, Jenna and Zoe. Welcome to the Everything Made Beautiful podcast and thank you so much for agreeing to be on the show today.
Jenna Nicholson (00:12.609)
Hi, we're so happy to be here.
Zoë Kuhn (00:12.91)
Thank you for having us. So excited.
Everything Made Beautiful (00:15.154)
Oh, this is so fun and it's been a long time coming and I'm glad we were able to get it worked out. So I've done your official bio, which is fabulous, to start the podcast, but I just want to say I have so enjoyed your ministry through worship leading over the years and
We met for the first time at a book release that Elizabeth Hasselbeck was doing that I just happened to be the staff member that was producing it at our church. And it was such a great night. Everything was so good. I still have several relationships, Jeannie Cunyon that I met that night. You guys that I met that night. But to close the event, Elizabeth set up a song.
Zoë Kuhn (00:47.438)
Good.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:03.056)
And we're gonna talk about that song because that, just slayed me and I need everyone to go get it and hear it and have it just playing as an anthem over their lives. But before we get there, take us, if you will, back to the beginning. How did your friendship start? Then how did your musical partnership start? And how did Jenna and Zoe, the brand, if you will, come to be?
Zoë Kuhn (01:26.19)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, we're so excited to be here. Yeah, it does feel like somehow the Lord has just continued to weave our stories together, which is just really cool to see. So we're happy to be here. Thank you for having us. Yeah, so I'm originally from Connecticut and Jenna is originally from Houston. And we both went to Belmont to study music. And we both always talk about how we
Everything Made Beautiful (01:36.786)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Zoë Kuhn (01:54.412)
really felt a call on our lives when we were in high school. We grew up leading worship in church. And so that kind of cultivated this, just this love and this passion for worship music and for the church. And so we both came to Belmont as voice majors wanting to pursue worship music. And we met on the first day of classes. It was a Wednesday. We met on the first day in the first class of college. And...
Everything Made Beautiful (02:20.581)
Wow.
Zoë Kuhn (02:21.556)
Yeah, it was one of our classes that's called a seminar. So you basically all kind of share throughout the semester, you share songs, you sing songs, you give each other feedback. It's a really cool way to just start performing for your peers. And so we always talk about watching each other's performances and seeing, was like, she's a worship leader. She loves worship music. She did a worship song. I did a worship song.
From there we just became fast friends and we connected over everything, just gushing about worship music, talking about worship leaders that we look up to and admire and want to be like and what it would look like to pursue worship music. And the way we really started performing together was Jenna was asked to do a acoustic opener set for some band in college and she didn't want to do it by herself.
Everything Made Beautiful (02:48.082)
You
Jenna Nicholson (03:14.561)
Mm-mm, not by myself. I said I'm bringing a buddy.
Zoë Kuhn (03:17.678)
So she asked me to go do it with her. And just when we were practicing and singing and talking about songs that we loved and we're like, oh, should we do this in the set list? Should we do this? Should we do this? We were just on the same page. And we sang together that night. And we had multiple people come up to us afterwards and say, have you guys been singing together forever? Are you guys sisters? Like, this is amazing. And we, of course, said, no, this is our first time singing together.
Everything Made Beautiful (03:39.73)
Mm.
Zoë Kuhn (03:46.118)
And I think someone spoke the words like this feels a very feels like a very ordained partnership. And we've always kind of just really clung to that. And the funny part is from that moment on, we always say that we never had a formal conversation of, okay, here's my business plan. Would you like to do this and be my partner in the music and my duo? The other half of my duo, we never really had that conversation.
Everything Made Beautiful (04:06.823)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (04:13.205)
Thank
Zoë Kuhn (04:14.764)
We just, the way that we remember it is just a natural flow from there. just continued to sing together, continued to worship together, started writing together, and it just snowballed from there. So that's kind of the origin story.
Everything Made Beautiful (04:29.816)
It's crazy how compatible your voices are. Like I was also a voice major in college and married a full-time musician. And so when we sing together, I'm like, I mean, it makes sense to me that like the Lord knew we were going to be married and our voices are compatible and it kind of feels like breathing. It's not work. And that is what you guys remind me of. It is.
Zoë Kuhn (04:54.837)
Exactly.
Jenna Nicholson (04:57.067)
Thank you.
Everything Made Beautiful (04:57.562)
It is crazy. You've both felt called to worship since high school. When did you realize this isn't just a passion thing that I do on the side or that I'm on the worship team on Sundays, but like this is the path we're supposed to walk as our calling on our lives.
Jenna Nicholson (05:01.568)
Mm-hmm.
Zoë Kuhn (05:09.442)
Mmm.
Jenna Nicholson (05:12.061)
Mm-hmm Yeah, for me I feel like I always loved to sing and I always wanted to sing and perform and I didn't wasn't really aware of worship leading yet when I was younger I just knew how much I loved music, but I wasn't brave enough to sing for anyone or perform at all And God kind of just like threw me into it like there were other passions I had that I was giving my all to that took up all of my time and in
in his own way, he just so clearly closed those doors. And I had a friend ask me if I wanted to audition for this like small vocal group at the church across the street from our high school. And I was like, well, I've quit everything else that I was a part of because I felt like God told me to quit it. And so I have this time. So sure I will. And I ended up joining that group. And then the worship pastor there, his name's Josh, he just poured into me so much. I mean, he was
a vocal coach and a mentor and he, you know, kicked me center stage and made me sing these songs that were way too hard for me to sing and he knew I could do it and it kind of just went from I want to pursue music because I love it and I think that it's a gift that I have but I'm not brave enough to do it to all of sudden I was just pushed right into it and I feel like I knew right then like this is something I'm gonna do and it kind of just fell into place all at once.
So as soon as I started leading, I was like, this is what I have to do. It's taken too much work and bravery and too many things had to align to get me here that I know that this is what I'm supposed to do.
Everything Made Beautiful (06:46.502)
Yeah, it feels like I this is when I feel alive. Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (06:47.726)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (06:49.087)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (06:51.406)
It's crazy because obviously we grew up totally different parts of the country and had a totally different, you know, experience growing up and never knew each other. But I feel very similarly like my story feels very much so the same, which is really cool. It was that moment for me of realizing, okay, I know that I'm passionate about the Lord and I know I'm passionate about music. And then similar to what Jenna said, it just kind of all made sense once I started marrying those two things. And I just
it's kind of the way that things happen with the Lord a lot of times where I just felt a lot of open doors and I felt a lot of clarity. And I was like, this just kind of makes sense, which is similar to how we then ended up feeling when we started singing together, where it was like, this just feels easy to walk forward in this. And I was really inspired. I always knew that I wanted to do music, but the idea of doing it professionally in the secular space never sounded appealing to me. And then all of sudden I was learning
Jenna Nicholson (07:35.915)
Mm-hmm.
Zoë Kuhn (07:51.022)
these worship songs and then I was going and finding their albums and I was going and just learning that people were doing this full time. And I was like, oh, that's cool. I could see myself doing that.
Everything Made Beautiful (07:58.62)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (07:59.499)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (08:02.8)
Who were some of your inspirations in the worship music space? Who are some of your favorites?
Jenna Nicholson (08:08.851)
My first huge inspiration in the worship space was Meredith Andrews. We used to sing one of her songs like almost every Sunday, every holiday we sing one of her big ones. It's, she was, her music was like formative to me in becoming a worship leader for sure. And then in college, Zoe and I were
Everything Made Beautiful (08:13.82)
Mm-hmm.
Jenna Nicholson (08:27.805)
obsessed with Amanda Cook and Stephanie Gretzinger. We would always say, are Amanda and Stephanie, Zoe's Stephanie with her red hair and I'm Amanda, I'm a little moody. And you're like, we love them so much. And to this day, anything that Amanda or Stephanie does, we're like, it's gold.
Zoë Kuhn (08:42.446)
Yeah, for me, probably similar Meredith Andrews, Carrie Jobe. Yeah, and just a couple other smaller, of Departis, I went to a casting crowns concert whenever I was in high school and I, Lindsay McCall opened for them and I've always loved her and which is really cool, full circle moment, because I feel now we're really good friends and which is really, really cool. And so.
Everything Made Beautiful (09:07.057)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (09:11.724)
Those were some of my main inspirations, absolutely headed into the Bethel world, late high school college, and Jen Johnson, and Callie Hellegenthal, and Stephanie Amandale, all those girls.
Jenna Nicholson (09:20.717)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like worship kind of... Oh, well, thank you, thank you. I feel like me and Zoe together fell in love with worship music kind of like as friends when Beth will put out this Starlight album. I just remember like listening to that top to bottom being like, this is it, yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (09:22.758)
Yeah, yeah, I can hear a lot of that.
Zoë Kuhn (09:26.392)
Ha ha ha!
Everything Made Beautiful (09:37.906)
Mm-hmm.
Zoë Kuhn (09:38.156)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (09:43.48)
So good.
Everything Made Beautiful (09:43.622)
Yeah. Well, speaking of inspirations, the first time we met, you guys closed that event with a song called New Thing. And I would have told you it was the particular season I was in at that moment that was why it struck me so deeply. But it turns out every time I hear it, it strikes me just as deeply. So it is not about the season. However,
If you're in a season of transition or a season of pain or confusion or even loss, this song is such a balm to the soul. And I know you guys are probably like, man, she talks about nothing but new thing, but I'm telling you it is that good. So I'd love for you to just talk a little bit about that song because I want everyone to go get it immediately. But.
Jenna Nicholson (10:26.77)
Now it means everything.
Everything Made Beautiful (10:37.234)
what was the genesis of it? What was the inspiration behind it? Because to write something like that, you had to first experience something like that. So what was that song all about for you?
Zoë Kuhn (10:44.899)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (10:49.649)
Yeah, so I wrote that song in, I think it was, it must have been junior year of college, because I think it was in my bedroom. I think I remember being in that room. But I also specifically remember being on a run and the bridge of that song, the lyrics are, of heaven is singing a champion's kind of song.
and it echoes in the living, it's cheering you on. I think I was, I wasn't training for a race or anything like that, but maybe I was, maybe it was a 5K or a 10K or something like that. I'm not a major runner, but I do love to run. And those words just kind of came to my brain. And I was kind of thinking about it in the context of running, of just like, I really, feel very close to the Lord whenever I run.
And or whenever I'm in a heavy running season, I just feel like I can really talk to him a lot when I'm running. And so I think it was in that moment that those words came to me. I vividly remember I was I was on 12 South and those words came to my brain and I was like, that's really good. And I think that I just jotted them down on my notes. And I just felt like it was really speaking to me of just how the Lord is all, you know, he's cheering us on, you know, and the
I know that he wants like what's best for me and he, you know, wants to see me flourish and wanted to, you know, is cheering me on in all the endeavors that I'm, that I have in my life. But it really became real to me in that moment of feeling, yeah, there's actually, heaven is actually singing over me and it's echoing in the living, in the way that the trees are moving, in the way that I can even move my body right now.
Everything Made Beautiful (12:37.606)
Mm-hmm.
Zoë Kuhn (12:38.112)
All of this just feels so worshipful. so that was, I think, the start of the song really. And it's crazy because I can't trace back that song to a specific event in my life. There wasn't a specific season or a specific hardship or a specific transition that I was going through that made me write that song, which actually I think is what makes it really cool.
because of what you're saying where it kind of speaks to multiple different seasons. I bet you it was just thinking about my future and thinking about, you know, embarking with Jenna on this journey of music and worship leading and, you know, college was going to be over in a year. And just that felt like the biggest thing in the world to me at the time, you know. And because it is derived directly from scripture, I'm doing a new thing. Remember not the former things. I'm doing a new thing. That's
Everything Made Beautiful (13:27.356)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (13:36.354)
you know, scripture is alive and breathing. And so that's why this song can specifically speak to any season and any person because it's the Lord's, you know, it's his words, it's his encouragement. And so it doesn't just speak to my college self. It can actually provide a lot of hope to me in every season as well, even after I wrote it, obviously. So that is a little bit of the genesis of the song.
Everything Made Beautiful (13:39.218)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (14:06.15)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (14:06.166)
but it became really important to us when, Elizabeth Hasselbeck had us sing it for the first time, for a group of widows. There's this organization, nonprofit organization called Never Alone Widows that we love deeply and we, do as many things as we can with them. If they ever asked us to be part of anything, our answer is yes. We were there.
Everything Made Beautiful (14:16.946)
Mm.
Jenna Nicholson (14:25.845)
We are there.
Everything Made Beautiful (14:27.664)
Yeah. Yes, I have several friends who are part of leadership of that both out of Atlanta and here in Tennessee. And what what a profound gift to people walking through that specific specific kind of tragedy. It is it is it is so sweet. Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (14:33.781)
Mm-hmm.
Zoë Kuhn (14:35.188)
my gosh.
Jenna Nicholson (14:43.969)
It's really unbelievable. I mean, they invited us to be part of the worship team for a conference that they did a few years ago, and they asked us to sing New Thing because New Thing meant so much to them. And it was the coolest, like holiest, like one of the most tangible experiences of the gospel that I've, that we've ever like witnessed up close, other than actually being saved by Jesus.
Zoë Kuhn (14:56.184)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (15:13.693)
is to see all of these women singing this song about trusting the Lord as he does something new when the new thing that he's doing is their worst nightmare realized. This is not a new thing they ever wanted or could have imagined happening. And instead of it crushing them, they are rising from the ashes and singing this song about God doing a new thing and how
This song that he sings over them is a champion song and it echoes in the living. And at this conference, we're leading this song and something that Zoe pointed out that was just like so surreal was that there was I think 250 women in the room and all of their husbands are in heaven singing that champion song over them. And it was just, it was holy ground for sure.
Everything Made Beautiful (16:04.604)
Ooh. Ugh.
Everything Made Beautiful (16:12.198)
Yeah, yeah, no question.
Zoë Kuhn (16:13.038)
to sing those words again in that moment. All of heaven is singing a champions kind of song. It echoes in the living, it's cheering you on. And we had that moment of realization of, oh yeah, they know who's in heaven singing with Jesus this champions kind of song. So it was just, it's been insane, just like the ripple effects of that and the way that it, if you look at it from a different angle in a different season, it means something else.
Everything Made Beautiful (16:26.791)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (16:28.193)
Mm-hmm.
Zoë Kuhn (16:43.142)
it feels like a gift. I, I barely remember writing it. I have that one memory of the running. and I can't even say that I have a memory of the writing the rest of the song. And when I took it to Jenna, we both were like, this, this is really special and it just feels like a gift and it doesn't even feel like anything I've done, or that we've done. and we dreamed up how we wanted it to sound and
changed a few lines here and there, you that made more sense and then it just became what it is. And it's really cool. We've talked about doing another version. Not different in terms of because there's anything bad, but just like, you know, our voices are older now. I think we put that out in 20, I don't know, 20. Yeah, like it was 2017 or 2018 or something. So it'd be cool to give it a maybe 10 year, 10 year anniversary.
Everything Made Beautiful (17:26.834)
Yeah, reimagine it.
Jenna Nicholson (17:27.553)
Yeah. Give it new life.
Everything Made Beautiful (17:36.646)
Yeah, exactly. Yes. Well, I love that you don't have really specific memories of all the little nuances of writing it. You know, there's a scripture that talks about this is a paraphrase, but basically so that when we get to the end, we'll be able to say that you alone have done it, Lord. And that feels like kind of what you're able to assign to that song because
Zoë Kuhn (17:57.688)
Yes.
Jenna Nicholson (18:01.801)
Mm-hmm, totally.
Zoë Kuhn (18:02.572)
Yes.
Everything Made Beautiful (18:04.054)
all of your music is stunning, your worship leading is stunning. And you're right, that song feels like a gift and to know the very specific ways that God has used it to what what a kindness to you guys. Thank thank you for sharing around it. That was my like, I get to talk to them about new thing. So I'll be browbeating everyone to go and listen to it. But I want to talk about
Jenna Nicholson (18:15.041)
Mm-hmm.
Jenna Nicholson (18:20.011)
Thank you.
Zoë Kuhn (18:22.862)
D'oh!
Jenna Nicholson (18:23.392)
Ha
Zoë Kuhn (18:25.228)
No, that's special.
Jenna Nicholson (18:29.099)
Thank you.
Everything Made Beautiful (18:32.365)
You have said before in interviews that there were seasons where you felt hidden and even unseen as musicians. And I think a lot of us can relate to that in any of our passion fields. And so you've worked in restaurants and nannying, but wondering, okay, I love music. I'm passionate about music, but does God's plan really include music? So just...
Give us some language around what God taught you in those stretches of time of feeling hidden and unseen, because that's not specifically about music. That can apply to anything that we believe our souls are really made for, but we're not seeing realized yet.
Zoë Kuhn (19:01.976)
Hmm.
Jenna Nicholson (19:03.945)
Thank
Jenna Nicholson (19:12.565)
Mm-hmm. I do feel that a lot of our career and in my life in general I have felt hidden for sure and I have felt like there are things that you know, we've dreamed for for so so so long it feels that maybe have barely changed and I find that where I end up when I have honest conversations with the Lord about that is
Zoë Kuhn (19:13.624)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (19:43.199)
Like in his kindness, he'll say, if this doesn't happen the way that you want it to, do you still think I'm good? And there have been times I've been like, no, if I, you know, I believe that you've called me to music and we are pursuing this and it doesn't look the way that we want it to most of the time. And if it doesn't ever look the way that we want it to, I don't know that you're good. And you know, wrestling with that to get to a point where it's like, no, he is good. And the calling is to lead worship and write songs for the church. And we're doing that. And
like we know that we know that we know that he has called us to this and he gives us signs and words of encouragement and you know speaks to us that this is what he's called us to do and to just trust him and take him at his word and do what he's asked us to do in pursuing leading worship and writing songs and ministry even if it never looks the way that we hope it does.
Like it's kind of, it's about obedience and it's about intimacy with him and just believing that if I take, you know, today's right step that I will end up in the right place.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:43.548)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (20:58.95)
Yep, absolutely.
Zoë Kuhn (21:00.93)
Yeah, did up to that. That's encapsulates it really well. think that question of it, this doesn't happen exactly as I picture it to happen. Are you still good? It's something that we all have to face at one point or another. And it's cool when you get to come to the other side of that season and be like, yeah, you are, you absolutely are exactly who you say you are and you're still good. And that's not to say we won't struggle with it again.
Jenna Nicholson (21:16.001)
Mm-hmm.
Zoë Kuhn (21:30.738)
or that we're not still struggling with it in a different area. But yeah, it's good to wrestle with the Lord on that. He's okay with us asking that question and wrestling with Him in that.
Jenna Nicholson (21:35.817)
And.
Jenna Nicholson (21:44.449)
Because it feels like you have to get to a point where you're like, not even if this doesn't look the way that I want it to, let's say that I know for sure it's only ever gonna look like this and it's never gonna get any bigger. Do I still wanna do it? It's like, yes. Yes, I do. Because this is what I think he's asked me to do. And not even ask, giving me permission. I love writing songs and I love that my job is music and ministry. It's fun and it's wonderful and...
Everything Made Beautiful (21:44.678)
Yeah, it's that.
Zoë Kuhn (22:00.643)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (22:03.356)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (22:13.503)
It's like finding joy in the fact that the Lord gave me permission to pursue this as my career. It's not just some, you know, labor. It's also really fun and it's wonderful. I'm not trying to pretend that my job isn't songs.
Everything Made Beautiful (22:19.056)
Yeah, it's so good.
Zoë Kuhn (22:23.491)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (22:24.474)
Yeah, I right. No, hey, own that. I love it. I love what you said about the wrestling, though, because that is number one, what builds our strength, but also what builds our faith. And I remember being really convicted. We had a situation a couple of years ago where our oldest daughter was in a car accident and she lives in Orlando and we live in Tennessee. And so we got the phone call at midnight.
Zoë Kuhn (22:28.108)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (22:52.828)
Well, actually, we got the Life 360 notification that she'd been in an accident. And then I got the phone call from her shortly thereafter. And you know, she's sobbing. She's definitely broken something in her hand. Like it was a big deal, but she ended up being OK. And as I was retelling the story to people, I would find myself saying, but God is good and she's OK.
Zoë Kuhn (22:58.39)
my gosh.
Jenna Nicholson (23:07.009)
Everything Made Beautiful (23:20.092)
but God is good and she's okay. And I felt like as I was repeating that, just, that the Lord was like, it's actually God is good, full stop. Also, she's okay. And would I be saying the same thing if that had gone in Jenna's words from earlier, my greatest, you know, trauma and tragedy realized, well, yes.
Zoë Kuhn (23:22.2)
Okay.
Zoë Kuhn (23:48.372)
my gosh.
Everything Made Beautiful (23:49.456)
He's still good. And I think it's a good exercise for us to always ensure we're not attaching his goodness to us getting our way. And he's good, full stop. Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (23:59.219)
Mm-hmm, totally. Because he's good no matter what. Whether I realize it or not, he is good. And my life is a lot better if I can teach my heart to know that he is good.
Zoë Kuhn (24:00.534)
Yeah, that's so good.
Zoë Kuhn (24:10.541)
Hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (24:10.588)
Yeah, so good. Teaching our hearts. Ooh, that's good. What would you say to someone who's listening who feels like they are right now in that kind of in-between season of I don't have assurance that I'm going to get to do what's in my heart and I'm not sure what my next right step is. What would you say someone's next right step could be?
Zoë Kuhn (24:14.776)
That is good.
Jenna Nicholson (24:37.441)
As much as we're believing for this and things are progressing for us more than they have in the past, and I feel the least hidden we've ever been, we're still kind of in the middle of it, you know, hoping that this is going to be, you know, build a bigger ministry, be more financially lucrative, like there's going more opportunities and that kind of thing. And I just feel like I still do have those questions sometimes, but when I have them, I personally am always asking the Lord.
Everything Made Beautiful (24:50.012)
Hmm.
Jenna Nicholson (25:07.359)
like to give me signs that I'm in the right place. And I, anytime I see anything in doubles or triples, I like, you if I talk to you right now about how we love, you know, Kane's chicken fingers, and then later I'm watching a movie and they're eating Kane's chicken fingers, like it sounds so silly, but I just, anytime I see things in repetition, I'm like, God is with me and I'm in the right place. And I can't take it any further than that because that's the promise that God is with me.
Everything Made Beautiful (25:21.618)
Mm-hmm.
Jenna Nicholson (25:34.593)
And I'm believing that I'm in the right place, because he's showing me, like, see, I'm calling you back to things you've already seen today, things you've already talked about. And that just is always so moving for me. And there's a couple of things that I look for, that I see all the time. There was one time I was kind of at the end of my rope for music, and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm exhausted. And I was talking to God, and I was like, if you want me to keep doing music, then I'm going to need a sign.
Everything Made Beautiful (25:42.428)
Yeah, it's good.
Jenna Nicholson (26:01.595)
And me and my roommates are about to go get ice cream and I need to see an orange truck or I'm done. And we went to get ice cream, no truck, run away home, no truck. And we're pulling into our neighborhood and right at the end of our street is an orange truck parked outside of this house. And I had never seen it before, but it's there every day. I see it every day when I leave my house and I see bright orange trucks, like the boxes behind your head, bright orange every day. I'd never seen an orange truck before.
Everything Made Beautiful (26:07.762)
you
Everything Made Beautiful (26:25.125)
Mm-hmm.
Jenna Nicholson (26:28.981)
bright Crayola crayon orange trucks, traffic cone orange trucks every day. you know, God's not a genie where you're give me a sign and he gives you one. But I do think that there are specific ways that he speaks to all of us and he wants to guide our steps and he wants to direct us and he's not a God of confusion. And for me, when I see things like that out and about, it's so like peaceful for my heart.
Everything Made Beautiful (26:39.09)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (26:43.107)
Good.
Jenna Nicholson (26:55.593)
And so that's a way that he speaks to me. And I think honing in on how he speaks to you is a really good start to figuring out what he wants you to do.
Everything Made Beautiful (26:56.017)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (27:03.458)
know and he doesn't have to be kind that way and provide orange trucks or whatever the case may be. And I love that the other thing I love is that you said it's there every day. Like I've literally never seen it before and it's parked at the end of my street. Yeah and that's that's so I mean isn't that just like God to be like let me open your eyes to what's here all the time. So yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (27:06.049)
Mm-hmm.
Jenna Nicholson (27:18.753)
All the time. I see them all the time.
Jenna Nicholson (27:25.587)
Mm-hmm.
Totally, and then you talk about it to the people that you love and my friends and family members will send me pictures of orange trucks. And then it's like everyone's looking for evidence of God everywhere for themselves and for you. And I'd rather look for evidence of him everywhere. And then at the end of my life, he was like, you look too much. Like that was not all me, but you're sweet for that. Then get to the end of my life and he'd be like, I was everywhere and you didn't look.
Everything Made Beautiful (27:35.004)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (27:41.391)
Absolutely.
Everything Made Beautiful (27:48.411)
Hahaha
Zoë Kuhn (27:51.022)
you
Everything Made Beautiful (27:51.1)
Yeah.
Yeah, so good. So good.
Zoë Kuhn (27:54.476)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Completely agree. I think, yeah, to speak and reiterate that point of just bringing it to the Lord, it's hard for me to do that. Sometimes I feel like if I am in an in-between season and I don't know how things are gonna work out, my natural inclination is like, you're kind of an untrustworthy s-
person for me right now. So like, I don't think that I'm going to bring this to you. So this is an encouragement for me just as much as it is for someone else. But the best thing that we can do is bring it to him, even in it's all of it's unknown and even in its frustration of like, I'm frustrated. I'm desperate. I am longing. And he will meet us there. And yeah, and peace is a very important
when it comes to our relationship with Christ. And I think where you find a lot of peace, you know He is there. And so just praying for peace, if you're thinking about different pathways or wondering about a fork in the road or wondering if you're on the right path, like praying and asking the Lord to give you a peace that surpasses all understanding, that has served both Jen and I really well individually and together.
of just being like, I don't know, this just feels peaceful. And so let's just lean into that. And sometimes that's all you really have to go off of. He's not gonna have a megaphone. And sometimes he doesn't give us signs, you know? So it's like, but he gives us his presence. He's always gonna do that. So if that is helpful, it's been helpful to me.
Everything Made Beautiful (29:28.166)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (29:36.065)
you
Everything Made Beautiful (29:39.026)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (29:48.245)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (29:48.55)
Yeah, that's so good. Yeah, absolutely. I would imagine that people could be tempted to think that because you are a duo, you were voice majors, your life is music, you sing all the time, you're on the road performing all the time that you just literally walk around all the time as overflowing wells of creativity and you literally can't get up in the morning without bumping into a hit song in your brains and
Jenna Nicholson (30:18.251)
I wish.
Everything Made Beautiful (30:18.906)
I think, I know, right? Wouldn't that be the life? But I think people think that about people whose talent and gift they can so readily see. But you, I read an article where you admitted that specifically during quarantine, back in five years ago, during that whole thing that happened, you said you felt robbed of creativity. And that's like a really honest admission.
Zoë Kuhn (30:30.36)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (30:48.582)
going on with you spiritually or emotionally during that time that caused that for you.
Zoë Kuhn (30:55.666)
yeah, gosh, I remember that so well. I think a lot of it was that we were so early out of college, we were two years out of college, or a year and a half really, because it was like May to March, so whatever. And I think a large part of that was we were so early in our journey of music to where co-writing and collaborating with people was so essential. It's still really, really essential, but there was something about that season that we just
Jenna Nicholson (30:55.905)
you
Everything Made Beautiful (31:08.498)
Mm-hmm.
Zoë Kuhn (31:25.496)
felt like we all did, very shut off from everybody. And a lot of what happened in the music world was that we were doing co-writes on Zoom, which in general, all have our, you know, Zoom was a huge gift, but it also, after a little bit of the phenomenon, weared off, it was like, man, I just really want to sit at a restaurant with my friend and across the table from this person. And there was something really difficult. We all know that it's kind of difficult to connect.
Virtually in general, but then trying to connect and create together Virtually was really really hard almost impossible for us. Oh my gosh Yeah, I could just like put someone on mute like check my phone like you know, whatever I wanted to do Oh my gosh, this is this is tough and I think in general Creativity really grows when you feel safe and when you feel excited and you feel free and you feel
Jenna Nicholson (32:02.111)
It was too easy to tune out.
Everything Made Beautiful (32:07.484)
You
Jenna Nicholson (32:08.479)
It was too much.
Zoë Kuhn (32:24.78)
connected to those around you and to the Lord and it was a time where we all felt scared and disconnected and not safe and so all those things were just like Poison to our my created my creative Self which I was already super insecure about because it was so new to be in the real world as a fresh adult
Jenna Nicholson (32:40.097)
It was so new and you know, it's like you hope you're going to graduate college and get a deal right away because isn't that how it works? And it's like, of course that's not how it works. And it's like, well, you know, every single coffee meeting we had was going to be the one that changed our career. And that's not how things go. And so I think we had, you know, spent a year and a half to two years out of college hoping that things were going to pick up differently than they had.
Zoë Kuhn (32:51.244)
Hahaha
Everything Made Beautiful (32:51.634)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (32:59.088)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (32:59.169)
and
Jenna Nicholson (33:08.005)
And then for the world to shut down, I was like, okay, now you have to work twice as hard when you're not really seeing the fruit of your labor yet in your career. Yeah, right. I was not about to work twice as hard for no fruit. And we tried, we tried to do co-writes and we did, you know, we did a Zoom write like every Friday with one of our friends, Tyler, for a long time. And we did as much as, we did, my goodness, we did so many like worship nights on Instagram Live.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:13.244)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:17.148)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (33:26.766)
Uh-huh.
Zoë Kuhn (33:35.075)
Whoo!
Jenna Nicholson (33:35.221)
where there'd be like three people that were joined and it's like our moms and one other person. And we got to the point where I was like, I'm just like, I'm tired and I'm embarrassed. And like, I actually like just wanna go do my puzzles and watch Netflix.
Everything Made Beautiful (33:40.396)
Ha ha ha ha ha.
Zoë Kuhn (33:41.133)
Woo!
Everything Made Beautiful (33:49.436)
Yeah. Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (33:51.008)
And we just felt, you know, the comparison game of everybody in the music industry was feeling this. Everyone in every industry was feeling this, but I'm just talking about what we were experiencing. But I played the comparison game where I was like, but they have all of these fans who are going to be ready and waiting for them on the other side of this. And I felt like we had just gotten started on what does it look like to be in the real world, trying to work a restaurant, trying to do the creative thing. Like, what does this life look like? And then it was just kind of.
Jenna Nicholson (34:13.749)
Mm.
Zoë Kuhn (34:20.6)
gone. So there was that element of it too.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:22.31)
Yeah, and you've got things like, you've got the Keith Urbans or the John Mayers of the world doing little, you know, acoustic sets with their cell phones and they're blowing up and you're like, that's what we've been doing this whole time. Where have you all been? Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (34:27.202)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (34:32.364)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (34:34.411)
and no one cares. I know we were doing, you the virtual church services for our church at the time and hoping there'd be some cool worship live, you know, live stream footage we can post and all of the sound coming from the board was just a nightmare. It was, it was tough. I felt like we couldn't win. And so then eventually I was like, I'm not doing any more zoom rights. I'm watching Tiger King.
Zoë Kuhn (34:39.598)
Ugh.
Everything Made Beautiful (34:49.508)
Yes.
Zoë Kuhn (34:51.502)
Woo!
Everything Made Beautiful (34:57.702)
Yeah. gosh, I forgot about that. Man, what interesting days those were. I hope we never relive them. They were one of a kind. Well, and the lesson that I think we all take from that is just because you go into seasons where it feels like I got nothing, I got nothing, I'm dry, have nothing to, in my, in the well, nothing is here.
Jenna Nicholson (35:00.333)
That's crazy. I know.
Zoë Kuhn (35:04.269)
Yeah.
Please Lord.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:23.076)
It doesn't last forever. It comes back around and the creativity returns and there's an opportunity there to seek the Lord when abundance is not the word over a particular season. But I thought I thought it was brave of you to just admit we've had seasons where we feel completely we have no creativity. We have nothing that we're offering and we're kind of done. Like I appreciated you Jenna saying I was done.
Jenna Nicholson (35:24.353)
Mm-hmm.
Zoë Kuhn (35:36.184)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (35:44.974)
Mm.
Jenna Nicholson (35:45.057)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (35:52.632)
Totally.
Everything Made Beautiful (35:53.86)
So talk about the writing process. So from conception to now we've put it in the world, like how do you, is it the same every time that you approach it the same? Is it, we read a scripture or I was singing along this melody or this conversation we had, or this rhymes? Like what is the, what's kind of the process when you write a song?
Zoë Kuhn (36:12.877)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (36:17.102)
Man, I love this question because the answer is a different for everybody, but it it yes to all of those things like I find a couple of really common ways that rights are started or a song is started is either Overall big concept so like, you know Heaven maybe, you know or trust trusting in the Lord. So there's that kind of
umbrella and then you know you maybe you want to elaborate on that. Another really fun way to write is if you have a title that you feel like would be a really cool song title. You know like we want to see you or we don't want to leave the same or you know things like that where it's like man this is kind of grabby and what would that look like if that was the hook of the song and then we you know built it around there. There's also sometimes where
Jenna Nicholson (37:09.035)
you
Zoë Kuhn (37:16.162)
for no apparent reason, I'll just feel a draw to the keyboard and I'll just sit down and I'll start singing and sometimes it's just a melody or sometimes it's just the piano melody and then I'll take that to a right and I'm like, hey, I was playing these chords on the keys, what do you guys think? And then Jenna will start singing something over that or like, I had some words that I put together that maybe would work with this. Sometimes it's completely scripture inspired.
you know, maybe it's like, hey, today let's take this Psalm and really just really try to find in this Psalm, are there things that rhyme? Are there ways we can kind of judge it together and make it directly from scripture? Sometimes it's scripture inspired. So it's like, hey, let's write it from this Psalm 123 or whatever. And it's gonna have this theme, but maybe you're not taking exactly those lyrics. And most of the time when we're writing, we're writing in a group of three or four.
Everything Made Beautiful (38:12.114)
Yeah. Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (38:16.568)
So me, Jenna, and one other person or two other people. And so there's all different ideas kind of coming together and you try to just circle the drain on which one feels most exciting.
Jenna Nicholson (38:26.465)
Thank
Everything Made Beautiful (38:29.788)
Yeah, that's good. Have you thrown songs out? Like, have you been like, there's nothing here. We beat that song to death. There's nothing here.
Zoë Kuhn (38:31.374)
you know.
Jenna Nicholson (38:36.321)
Totally. And I feel like typically what that looks like is, you know, we're writing a song and it's like pretty and it was a, you know, enjoyable creative process, but none of us feel like a deep emotional connection to the song. And so it gets to a point where it's like not really worth the fight to try and, you know, fine tune everything to make it be like, this is the best the song can be. You just view it as a creative exercise and then, you know, just finish the song if you can and then it won't see the light of day.
but it was stretching the muscle.
Zoë Kuhn (39:09.26)
Yeah, I think the majority of the songs that we write never make, I mean, I think, I mean, we write a couple of times a week. Sometimes we'll have slower seasons where we're not writing that much, but in our like writing seasons, we're writing three, two, three times a week. So, you know, when you think about that over the course of the past couple of seven years, you know, there's hundreds of songs that we've written that, you know, some of them stick, some of them don't.
Everything Made Beautiful (39:09.36)
Yeah, that's so good.
Zoë Kuhn (39:35.11)
and the way that I was describing it, I was describing this to someone recently and it kind of came to me in this way. Maybe I took it from someone else, but it's almost the way that a professional athlete goes to the gym all the time, you know, to kind of get stronger and to work, work out. and a lot of times it's helpful to, instead of getting discouraged that we write a lot and then those songs don't end up out into the world. It's like, but there was something that the Lord did.
in that room, in my heart, or just in becoming a better songwriter by sitting with someone else and them, gleaning wisdom from them. That is a little bit like just going to the gym and working out. And maybe it's not the big game, but you can't have the big game if you don't go to the gym. So I think that is a really helpful way for some people who are totally outside of the music world to kind of understand, okay, so you're going to three writes a week.
Jenna Nicholson (40:21.505)
Hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (40:22.94)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (40:33.676)
but I'm never gonna hear that song, like what do you mean? You know? And you're not getting paid to go sit there.
Everything Made Beautiful (40:34.002)
For what? Yeah. Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (40:35.669)
It's like we show up. Right, right, I'm doing it on my own accord. But you you show up and I think that like the boxes that I hope a song checks are, I wanna be moved by it sonically. Like the way that it sounds, I want it to, you know, move me emotionally or really heighten me up. Like you want, when you hear the song, regardless of what it's about, just the melodies and the way that it sounds, you're like, that's moving.
Everything Made Beautiful (40:42.78)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (41:04.235)
then you also want it to be well written. So you want the lyrics to tell the story well and to be creative and fresh or just straight from scripture. And then also I feel like it needs to really connect on a deep emotional level with in this case me or Zoe because you we're the artists that's putting out the song. And when a song checks all three of those, we do usually end up putting it out eventually.
And a lot of songs check too. Maybe it's really a beautiful song and we're moved by it and it's really well written but it doesn't necessarily mean anything to us. It's just true about God. And sometimes those are great to put out but I find that the ones that also, like, it was really, really important to us to write a song and sing a song about heaven that day because that was the promise we were clinging to.
Everything Made Beautiful (41:38.418)
Mm.
Jenna Nicholson (41:53.701)
eternity, you know, or like this song is beautiful and it's well written but it's also a really true testimony of ours or it's beautiful and well written but also we wrote it specifically for a congregation of a church we went to and it felt like that's what those people needed to sing. So those tend to be the songs when it checks all three boxes like, I really want to put this one out and you kind of don't know till the song's done.
Everything Made Beautiful (41:54.46)
Yeah. Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (42:00.408)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:17.104)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, and that's the beauty. Yeah, that's the beauty. Yeah, well, I'm glad you brought up congregations because we were at an event just recently together where I spoke and you guys were leading worship and it's the first time that I had gotten to see you lead an entire worship set. You know, I've seen you kind of be the featured on a particular song, but you let us in worship.
Zoë Kuhn (42:18.306)
And sometimes you don't know until years later.
Jenna Nicholson (42:20.383)
Sometimes you don't know it for years later.
Zoë Kuhn (42:23.17)
and then.
Zoë Kuhn (42:34.861)
I hear it.
Everything Made Beautiful (42:41.904)
And I turned to my daughter was on one side of my friend Casey was on the other. And I'm like, is there anything these girls cannot do? And you would switch off. And I was like, I can't even, it's not, what is happening? This is so good. So I could tell though that you have spent, and you haven't told me this and I haven't seen it anywhere. I can just tell because my husband's a worship leader that you have spent.
Jenna Nicholson (42:49.395)
You're so sweet.
Everything Made Beautiful (43:11.758)
many hours in the secret before you're ever in the public and you have a passion and a heart for actually ushering people and shepherding people in worship. Did you know that you specific because there's there's musical artistry, there's songwriting and there's recording songs and then there's also leading the people into the throne room.
Zoë Kuhn (43:17.71)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (43:36.462)
for you.
Everything Made Beautiful (43:40.902)
Did you always know you wanted to do that and that you wanted to shepherd the hearts of people? And how do you draw the distinction between performing and leading people in worship? What are you going for when you step up in front of a group of people?
Jenna Nicholson (43:58.475)
think God's been really kind in how he has created our hearts and personalities to where, in a way, that's the default because the thought of getting up and performing and running over a crowd and just singing songs and putting on a show for entertainment is so daunting. All of that riding on me, and I'm not even saying, I'm not saying this in a way of like, it's just easy for me to do that. It's like, no.
Everything Made Beautiful (44:17.062)
Mm.
Jenna Nicholson (44:25.631)
The thought of being like the performer in the room who's gonna entertain and win over this crowd is, that's kind of like my downfall in wanting to pursue a career in worship leading is cause like the star factor of it is really scary for me. But then when we're singing about the Lord, it's not about me anymore, it's about him. And I do know what it looks like to encourage people to press into the spirit in the room and to really invite them into what he's doing.
that is something that's easier for me to do, is to really showcase the evidence of, he's in the room and he's better than you thought. That's something I can do. So then making the music do that, and that kind of unlocks for me, like, I know how to perform in that way. I know how to do that. But if it's just my job to entertain the room, then I feel shy.
Everything Made Beautiful (45:17.958)
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Zoë Kuhn (45:18.402)
Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of the, the question of all questions when it comes to this industry is there's, there is, there is a difference between CCM, Contemporary Christian Music, artists and worship artists. Some people find themselves in the middle really nicely, like a Phil Wickham, a Brandon Lake.
Everything Made Beautiful (45:35.058)
Mm-hmm.
Zoë Kuhn (45:44.414)
You know, they're putting out songs that are going to radio and doing well at radio and they're also putting out songs that are going to churches and doing well at churches. They're doing both of those things well. That's an unbelievable gift because I think usually people lean one way or the other and the Lord has gifted different people in different ways because we need all those things. There's a ministry here and a ministry here that both of them are very important.
Everything Made Beautiful (46:05.467)
Yes.
Zoë Kuhn (46:14.79)
And in our journey together, Jenna and I have tried very hard to be CCM because that could get us a record deal and that could get us a song on the radio. And that would be really great. But try as we might. The farther towards CCM we get, the less authentic we feel.
Everything Made Beautiful (46:41.446)
Mm.
Zoë Kuhn (46:41.518)
And I don't think that that is not how everyone feels. But I think that is how we feel. And that's how we know that we are worship leaders, worship. And if you want to figure out how artists falls in that, it's like worship artists versus like Christian, like, you know, Christian contemporary music artists. We are still trying to write songs that...
Everything Made Beautiful (46:57.82)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (47:02.944)
Mm-hmm.
Zoë Kuhn (47:07.624)
radio promoters could hear on the radio. But that's that but that do really feel like us and they're a little less storytelling. They're a little less. You can do it and God loves you and it a little bit more vertical versus horizontal, which we have horizontal stuff that in a lot of times horizontal stuff works in church, but just to help kind of make a little bit of a distinction for anyone listening who for whom this is a totally foreign concept.
Everything Made Beautiful (47:21.542)
Yes, yes.
Everything Made Beautiful (47:36.359)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (47:38.005)
So yeah, it's hard to find a line. I think something about what you were sharing and how we switch off and someone will sing this line and someone will sing this line. There's a lot of that that is just fun for us, but there's also a lot of that that I think the Lord has been kind in his protection to us in sharing the spotlight with each other so that we never really feel
Everything Made Beautiful (48:02.759)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (48:06.412)
The moment that I'm tempted to think, yeah, this is all about me because I'm a human being and I'm sinful and I'm prideful. So yeah, the moment I'm about to be like, yeah, I've got a microphone, spotlight's on me. I've got a cute outfit on, I'm gonna sing my heart out. It's like, nope, there she is. Like there's someone else right here. And then we look at each other and we're like, my gosh, this isn't even about either of us. This is about the Lord. Like what are we doing? There's someone always keeping me in check. There's someone always like,
Jenna Nicholson (48:20.225)
You
Everything Made Beautiful (48:21.136)
Mm-hmm.
Jenna Nicholson (48:25.356)
there she is.
Jenna Nicholson (48:30.154)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (48:36.812)
you know, it's never gonna just be about me. also not making a lot of decisions. I'm not making decisions by myself. I have to run them by somebody else. I'm held accountable to how I am spending my finances off of the money that we're making from churches and ministries. Like there's always somebody else in the picture. And so I think that I don't know how people who are solo artists do it. Props to them, the Lord knew that they had less pride than me. Because I think that's actually.
Everything Made Beautiful (48:52.464)
Yeah, so good.
Zoë Kuhn (49:04.654)
a big key for us. It's a way that we can help try to protect that line of making it about us, making it very performance heavy and making it worship heavy. We also were the worship leaders at a church for three years, which changed everything for us. know, what you learn while you're doing it is invaluable. So, yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (49:23.462)
Yes, yes. Well, and you went to the premier music school. You live in Music City, which is amazing and lots of talent and opportunities in Music City, but it's also very saturated and very competitive. So has comparison been a battle for you guys in living in the most creative city in the world? And how do you fight it?
Zoë Kuhn (49:28.897)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (49:37.802)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (49:44.892)
sure.
For sure. That's something that I still, know, some days I know how to fight and some days I'm still searching for the answer for that. I find that, you know, it's difficult because there are so many amazing, talented worship leaders in Nashville and all over, but really in Nashville. And we'll see people get opportunities and I'm like, why don't we get those opportunities? And it's so easy to fall into this trap of like,
Zoë Kuhn (49:48.13)
Guys!
Jenna Nicholson (50:17.589)
we're missing something or we've missed our opportunity or they're better than us or you know just all the things that the devil does with comparison that are not good for our hearts and they're not things that we want to think about but I do find that I feel like God's invited me to practice gratitude in the last year and when I really do like start taking inventory of all the things that I'm grateful for it I mean it's it's a power it's not just a shift
of mindset. It is actually like a spiritual like superpower that we have that I do think like shifts our hearts and softens them and like opens our eyes to kingdom things that we can't see if we don't have gratitude. And so especially the days that I feel the most confused or defeated or even jealous of other people, it's like, okay, let me start by listing 10 things I'm grateful for. And sometimes I'm like, I can't think of anything. So I'm like, okay, I'm grateful.
Zoë Kuhn (50:47.618)
Okay.
Jenna Nicholson (51:16.267)
that I can breathe, I'm grateful that my family loves me. And then once you've opened the door, work your way into, I'm really grateful that God orchestrated for Zoe and I to lead worship here. I'm really grateful that God gave us the idea to write this song that we're loving. And then you can start compiling on to the things he's doing in our career that we're really grateful for. But starting with gratitude.
and opening that door and then forcing myself to see all the things that he's doing helps me shift my perspective.
Zoë Kuhn (51:42.391)
and
Everything Made Beautiful (51:49.34)
So good.
Zoë Kuhn (51:49.518)
Oh yeah, 100 % gratitude and for me to kind of looking back at where I was and realizing that I would be really excited to hear about the things that I'm doing right now. And so just not getting stuck on that treadmill loop of, well, it's not what I want to be doing next month. It's not what I want. know, we're not there yet, we're not there yet, we're not there yet. But it's like, if you look back at how far you've come and I don't know if that's
Jenna Nicholson (51:57.537)
Mm.
Everything Made Beautiful (52:07.462)
Mm. Mm.
Jenna Nicholson (52:07.553)
Mm.
Zoë Kuhn (52:19.458)
true for everyone. You I think some people might look back and be like, I don't know how I got here. Like, how did, how did I end up in this, in this spot? so I'm not, I don't know if that's always a helpful tool. think gratitude is definitely always a helpful tool. But I think, when I feel like the, comparison is extremely spiritual warfare connected, looking back and be like, no, no, no. If you told high school me that I would be
us to be on a podcast and talk about a song that I wrote and like someone cares and has cared for years about this song that I wrote when I was in college. Like that's crazy. Like that's, that's not nothing. And so that's always been really helpful for me.
Jenna Nicholson (52:59.265)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (52:59.954)
Totally, yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (53:04.513)
Mm-hmm.
Jenna Nicholson (53:08.288)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (53:09.404)
Yeah. I want to ask a question. I don't know if you've been asked this before, but I'm going to ask it. I would imagine that there are women listening who are thinking, well, if I could find a friend, like they found each other and we opened our mouths and sounded like we always were meant to sing together. we like they seem like they never fight. They never go sideways on anything. They never have any issues like.
Can you just talk a little bit about how you as women friends avoid some of the things that plague women friends most often and how you fight for one another's highest good and for this partnership? I would imagine, I mean, outside of the music, women need great women friends and a lot of people are gun shy.
Jenna Nicholson (53:50.635)
Totally.
Jenna Nicholson (53:57.579)
Totally.
Jenna Nicholson (54:04.225)
Mmm.
Zoë Kuhn (54:04.29)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (54:07.014)
because of what they've experienced in relationship. what has helped you guys protect that?
Jenna Nicholson (54:13.729)
think that...
First of all, I feel like God has been really, really kind to just put it on, and I'll speak for both of us, just put it on our hearts, this like undying commitment to one another. And I don't always feel that way in all of my relationships. But I do feel like it doesn't matter if we're having a bad day and we're butting heads. It doesn't matter if we talk to each other in a rude tone. If today is just kind of like...
I feel like we're missing the mark on our communication. We'll try again tomorrow. You know, like, I just feel so, like, committed to our relationship. And I mean, one time I was talking to Zoe and I was like, how do you, because I'm not married. And I was like, how do you know for sure that's the person you want to marry? She was like, it's really similar to us. She was like, I just knew that I knew that we were supposed to do this together and that I'm not going anywhere and you're not going anywhere.
Zoë Kuhn (54:45.976)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (55:08.917)
And it just fell into place and it just felt right. And so the kindness of God to create what feels like in a way, a covenant friendship, not in a way, it is a covenant friendship. It all stems from there because I do feel this like, I'm not going anywhere, she's not going anywhere. We will always have this. That is so essential, I think, for us to be best friends.
Zoë Kuhn (55:36.334)
Mm-hmm.
Jenna Nicholson (55:38.613)
We have all the same best friends. We are business owners. We're creative in our business. We do have all parts of our lives are intertwined. And so that undying devotion to one another has to be the basis of it. And it doesn't even feel like something I necessarily chose. It feels like something I was just handed and I'm really grateful for.
Zoë Kuhn (56:02.85)
I think that I totally agree. And I think something that is important, but you can't necessarily manufacture it is you kind of have to get some reps in with like little fights and little like conflicts and those little things. They are naturally going to test your friendship of like, okay, how am going to respond when this
when she made me feel this way or how I purposely said that something knowing it was gonna hurt her and like, how is she gonna respond to that, you know? And how are we going to move past all of that? And it's almost like when you have those littler moments and you realize, wait, there's still trust here and like, we can apologize and like own up to something that we said that was not.
kind or whatever, then it kind of build these building blocks of trust and friendship. So when the big things happen, you kind of already have like a blueprint. So I think what's hard about that is, yeah, you just have to, you just have to kind of like pay your dues a little bit in some, in some friendships of being like, yeah, I'm not just going to drop someone if they, they do something that really hurts me or, know, whatever, there's boundaries, there's times to walk away from friendships. That's not what I'm talking about.
Jenna Nicholson (57:11.105)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (57:20.54)
Yeah. Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (57:32.078)
But how do I show up well again? And how do I like bring that up to her? We also lived together, so that's a really unique situation where, you know, being roommates is little things like we thought about who did the dishes or who, you know, whatever. And Jenna and I never fight, but it's always just, it's just like, you know, caddy sister. Yeah, like, you know, this kind of thing. And so.
Everything Made Beautiful (57:35.079)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (57:45.651)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (57:46.674)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (57:49.588)
It's like sisters.
Zoë Kuhn (57:59.276)
we were presented with a lot of little opportunities to be like, yeah, this is how we handle conflict and getting it resolved always feels really good and we can do this. And then on the bigger things, like when we have opportunities, you know, we are individuals as much as we are a partnership. And so, you know, if Jenna has an opportunity to lead worship at her church, that's going to be really wonderful and beautiful. And she wants to go forward with that. And I'm not a part of that church and I don't go there like.
that's really great for me as well because she's flourishing and she's going to meet people and if she meets someone awesome, I'll meet them too. Like, and it's going to be great for me too. And if, and vice versa, if I meet someone and they want to write with me and they invite me to a write, sometimes I'll go to a write, you know, without her. If I'm the last person invited in the group or she'll go to a write without me, if I wasn't invited and guess what? Next time I'll be invited. Next time I'm going to get her in the room.
Jenna Nicholson (58:36.801)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (58:36.946)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (58:47.633)
Mm-hmm.
Jenna Nicholson (58:53.985)
you
Zoë Kuhn (58:56.184)
But sometimes, you know, we have to, we are individual people. So championing each other in our individuality is also really important because then there's a trust of, well, there's also just like life and freedom and trying to, you know, be individuals, but also trusting that, like I don't have that comparison or threat level rise anymore when she says she's gonna go do something music related without me.
Everything Made Beautiful (58:56.326)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (59:25.92)
At the beginning, five, six, seven years ago, we totally wrestled with that where it was like, wait, you're going to go do that. And I'm not there. Like, am I, is that, is it over? Do you not want to do it together anymore? You know, are we breaking up? So as I'm saying, you know, it's those stepping stones, those building blocks of that situation happening. Maybe it's hard, maybe it's awkward. Maybe it's tough to work through. We work through it. And then next time we know, yeah, baseline we're for each other.
Everything Made Beautiful (59:28.732)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (59:34.118)
Yeah.
Jenna Nicholson (59:34.729)
Like, is this over?
Everything Made Beautiful (59:37.522)
Are we breaking up? Yes.
Jenna Nicholson (59:38.741)
Are we breaking up?
Zoë Kuhn (59:55.308)
This is what's good for you is good for me.
Jenna Nicholson (59:58.283)
And then now it's not tough or awkward or tense at all. If it's like you were invited to something I'm not invited to, it's like I've seen time and time again that a win for one of us is a win for both. So I'd much rather just Zoe get invited to be part of something than neither of us get invited. And then if it's something awesome that the Lord is doing, I'll be part of it next time.
Zoë Kuhn (01:00:01.538)
Yeah, it's just like...
Everything Made Beautiful (01:00:01.648)
Yeah, so good.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:00:10.278)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (01:00:16.771)
Right?
Everything Made Beautiful (01:00:22.31)
Yeah, it's so good. Thank you for just sharing that. I I'm sure nobody consciously thinks, well, they must never, you know, have any issues, but it's just helpful and it's freeing for people. And even the truth that you got to get your reps in. Like we only learn how to be healthy if we've experienced some level of unhealthiness, I think, because otherwise we have nothing to compare it to and we assume we're great.
Zoë Kuhn (01:00:22.477)
Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (01:00:45.848)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:00:51.278)
So thank you for sharing that. I do want to ask, yeah, yeah, don't give up. Yeah.
Zoë Kuhn (01:00:53.036)
Yeah. Yeah. And like, just don't give up, you know? You just don't give up on it, you know? It's like, it's worth sticking it out and being honest with each other. Like, man, I felt so threatened by that. Or like, I felt so hurt by that. That's always gonna, it's always gonna bode well for you. So, sorry, that was all I saying.
Jenna Nicholson (01:00:59.478)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:01:13.232)
Yeah, yeah, no, that's so good. I love it. Well, I could literally talk to you guys all day. So we're going to have to go do lunch and keep talking. But before we close, I do want each of you to answer the question that I ask all my guests before we close the podcast, because we are always rallying around the truth that God is making everything beautiful in its time. So much of what you've shared has been ways that you have seen God make beautiful.
Zoë Kuhn (01:01:19.118)
Sing.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:01:42.726)
what he's laid on your hearts to do. But I'm wondering if you could design your perfect, beautiful day, what would it look like from start to finish?
Zoë Kuhn (01:01:54.626)
Hmm. That's so good. You put this question, you told us this was coming and I didn't even, I was like, I'll just let myself answer in the moment.
Jenna Nicholson (01:01:57.601)
Does it?
Jenna Nicholson (01:02:04.395)
know, well, if I'm gonna say my perfect, beautiful day, as much as this is what we talked about the whole time, I don't know that it includes leading worship. I think it's actually, I think my perfect, beautiful day is going to get a coffee out, and I want it to be at Ian Rose. I want an acai bowl. And then I want to spend the day at the beach or at a pool with all my closest girlfriends, and then go out to dinner.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:02:14.759)
Mm.
Zoë Kuhn (01:02:15.246)
Yeah, me either.
.
Jenna Nicholson (01:02:34.389)
That's my perfect day. That's my perfect day.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:02:35.47)
Nice, love it.
Zoë Kuhn (01:02:37.152)
That's really good. The weather is something like exactly like today, a nice 70 degrees. I get to go on a long run and there's some walking in there too probably. Yeah, coffee out with my husband or my friends. I love going out to get a coffee. Probably includes like reading a book.
at some point, maybe listening to listening to music on my run. And then, yeah, probably some type of water is involved. So either that's beach or lake, not too picky. These days, I'm feeling partial to the lake. So maybe we're at a lake, we're spending some hours on a boat. Maybe we're there for sunset. And we do like a picnic dinner on the boat or something with my friends and my husband and my family.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:03:11.943)
Mm-hmm.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:03:25.586)
Okay.
Zoë Kuhn (01:03:36.67)
And then like a early night in maybe a movie, but I'm not much of movie person, more of TV. So maybe a good TV show. Survivor, season finale of Survivor, I think.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:03:45.234)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Yeah, it is intense. Okay. I love those perfect, beautiful days. I think you should do those as soon as you get the opportunity. Those sound amazing. But mostly thank you for making this a beautiful day for me. This was such a sweet conversation. I love getting to hear your heart. I love
Zoë Kuhn (01:03:53.462)
Yeah.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:04:10.658)
seeing how God has gifted you both and watching you steward that so well. So thank you for being willing to be on the podcast.
Jenna Nicholson (01:04:17.707)
Thank you for having us. We're honored that you asked. Thank you. We just think you're wonderful. Me too.
Zoë Kuhn (01:04:18.36)
Thank you for having us.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:04:21.434)
Well, I have a feeling there's going to be more in our future. I have many ideas, as I've told you, and y'all are in them. But I will put all of Jenna and Zoe's information in the show notes. You need to go get all of their music. If you get a chance to go somewhere where they are leading, you need to go. And if you have an opportunity where they can come in and bless your congregation, your women's ministry, your
Zoë Kuhn (01:04:25.422)
Yes.
Everything Made Beautiful (01:04:47.186)
Whatever you have that has worship leading as part of it or music as part of it, they would be phenomenal additions to that lineup. So thank you guys for listening so much to the podcast. And as always, be on the lookout for the way that God is making everything beautiful around you, but including you. And we will see you next time.