The Meat Mafia Podcast

Bobby Ryan is a former competitive skier turned marketing professional and entrepreneur. He's the founder of Hybrid Athletes Consulting and co-founder of Drink Birk. Bobby also runs marketing for Sisu Sauna. Raised in Kingston, New York, he competed globally in skiing and skied for the University of Colorado. After a career-ending injury, Bobby pivoted to marketing, utilizing self-taught skills in writing, copywriting, and AI to lead efforts for Sisu Sauna. Bobby is an endurance athlete, recently competing in the Leadville series. 

Key topics discussed:

- Prioritizing health and nutrition to build resilience and confidence
- Establishing accountability systems to enhance consistency and motivation
- Learning from high-performing individuals to adopt successful habits and lifestyle designs
- Building and leveraging a strong network through shared activities and meaningful connections
- Developing self-taught skills and entrepreneurship, especially in the context of AI and new technologies

Timestamps:

(00:08) Prioritizing Health and Fitness for Success
(03:11) Mastering Lifestyle Design and Success
(06:19) Building Relationships Through Shared Experiences
(17:28) Skill Stacking for Entrepreneurial Success
(23:21) Leveraging AI for Future Success
(27:35) Navigating AI and Future Opportunities
(37:06) Building Friendships and Future Success


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Creators & Guests

Host
Brett Ender 🥩⚡️
The food system is corrupt and trying to poison us... I will teach you how to fight back. Co-Host of @themeatmafiapod 🥩
Host
Harry Gray 🥩⚡️
Leading the Red Meat Renaissance 🥩 ⚡️| Co-Host of @themeatmafiapod

What is The Meat Mafia Podcast?

The Meat Mafia Podcast is hosted by @MeatMafiaBrett and @MeatMafiaHarry with the mission of addressing fundamental problems in our food and healthcare system. Our concerns with our healthcare system can be drawn back to issues in our food system as far back as soil health. Our principles are simple: eat real foods, buy locally, and cook your own meals.

When you listen to our podcast, you will hear stories and conversations from people working on the fringes of the food and healthcare system to address the major crises overshadowing modern society: how do we become healthy again?

themeatmafiapodcast.substack.com

Part 2 Bobby txt
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[00:00:00] Yeah. It's part of the reason why on the show we talk so much about the importance of really taking your health and your, your nutrition seriously. And it's not for the sake of like over just purely over optimizing for the sake of over optimizing or being healthy or having abs or something like that.

And the real reason why we talk about it is like the resilience and who you become as a person is a byproduct of getting your health in order. So like for both of us changing our nutrition, doing a lot of these endurance races that gave us like this body of work, this confidence that ultimately I think allowed us to pull the ripcord and go all in on this thing.

And I'm really excited for you this summer just to see the changes that happen to you after you do something as challenging, daunting, and incredible as the lead man. Because You know, I think a lot of times when you need to really understand what you're supposed to be doing or how you should be feeling, getting that time unencumbered by yourself where you can really like tap in your gut instinct and listen to that, that's amazing.

And I can't [00:01:00] imagine anything more better than that. It like stripping out all the extra fluff and getting robbed in something like a lead man to, you're just going to be having a multi hour conversation with yourself and it's going to be like a lifetime experience. And. A few different races, but I'm excited to see the version of Bobby that comes out on the end or other end of those races.

Yeah. I don't know what he's going to look like, or if he's going to be able to walk, he's like, no walk out, but, uh, he'll, he'll crawl out the other side shirt. We'll be tucked. We'll be watching the highlight tapes to make sure the shirt's time. Yeah, no, I think it's interesting. I think that's right too, with like training the body first is what I've always done, like training or my Dave revolved around training when I was an athlete.

But, like, I still maintain that now because getting up and doing a workout at 5 to 6. 30 in the morning or something before you start the rest of your day creates such a high and so much momentum for everything else that you're going to do. And I think if your body's not right, health, nutrition, sleep, how are you going to perform in these other areas of life?

I think [00:02:00] it's super foundational. A workout at the beginning of the day can set the tone in a way that, like, nothing else can. Have a negotiation with yourself. Like no one wants to get out of bed first thing in the morning at four 30 or five when the alarm's going off to get up, go outside and go for a rain when it's wet and cold and windy outside, that's the last thing you want to do.

But like building the habit of getting out of bed and doing that and just showing up and getting an accountability partner built in to that is having, having somebody who's going to meet you there is such a forcing function that can create so much more momentum throughout the day, but then it compounds over a week.

and compound over a month and then a year. All right. You've had the chance to be around Eric Hinman for some time now. I'm curious what your take is on just the level of athlete and performer. He is like. From the outside looking in, it's literally amazing what he does from a physical standpoint and also a work standpoint.

[00:03:00] From the inside looking out, it's amazing. Like, what is up with this guy? So I'm curious, like, what you've learned from working with him. I mean, the short answer is so much. Um, we met from a friend of a friend and we were, he was like, Oh, you mountain bike? Let's go mountain biking. So I went mountain biking with him and he's kind of like looking over his shoulder and I'm not getting robbed.

He's looking over his shoulder, and he's pedaling a little bit faster, and I'm not getting dropped. That's his thing, though, just to clarify that. I've heard that he's a menace on the mountain bike. He was a world class triathlete. He could hold 250 watts for hours. Yeah. So you're keeping up with him, though.

He's looking for you to get dropped, and you're not getting dropped. Not for a while. Then, towards the end, he kind of takes off. But then we became friends and started mountain biking together. And then, he's like, oh, you train CrossFit, or you work out or lift weights. He's like, come do a CrossFit workout with me.

So then I'd go to the gym with him and I mean I back squatted two days a week and power cleaned one day a week since I was 12 so I could hold my own in the gym or something. Like our whole [00:04:00] friendship was built from training together. So it was my built in training buddy and accountability partner. Um, but then it's kind of opened the doors into so many other worlds and people.

He's one of the most incredible, probably incredible people I know. He's also opened so many doors and many of them were actually in the sauna because he just says everybody come over to the house at 4 30. On a weeknight and six, eight, ten people show up and you meet them, you sweat in the sauna, get in the ice barrel, get cold and you're talking about business, entrepreneurship and life and you start to see behind the scenes on all these incredible entrepreneurs and high performers and athletes and start to pick apart the pieces of the different elements of the things that they're doing and start to add it to your own own game where it's like, Oh, Harry's an absolute leader.

Harry's an incredible writer. And Brett played professional baseball and gets up and goes to the gym and is now a triathlete. He's building a company. What are the things that I can then pull from Harry and then from Brett? And you start to develop your own [00:05:00] recipe for success or even what your life looks like.

He's mastered lifestyle design where he gets to wake up make espresso his whole day structure around his tiny wins that are written out and how he wants to do it. And he gets to optimize it around training, health, nutrition, entrepreneurship, interesting people who really care about him. And he's cracked life.

Yeah, he really has. How many people would you say it'd be like, if I could design the perfect life, I want it to be like Eric's. I feel like we've heard like 50 people say that. I mean, just his setup in his backyard, I feel like most guys at least want something that looks like that. Like overlooking the.

Mountains has a gym set up outside sauna gets to hang out with his friends on a regular basis works with cool brands like yeah Yeah, yeah And there's an incredible amount of work that went into that behind the scenes where it's working on the restaurant was training as a professional Triathletes of 20 to 40 hours a week while working a tech startup job and something he doesn't really talk about is he read a book You never eat alone Which is basically, you're supposed to share your meals with [00:06:00] people.

And he never ate alone for 12 years. Where it was coffee meetings, and lunch meetings, and dinner meetings. And all of a sudden, people are like, how do you have this network and know all these people? Well, he's had through a lot of bad coffee meetings, and probably a lot of bad first dates somewhere along the way, in order to get to meet all these absolutely incredible people.

And that just compounds over time. It's one of the most underrated books ever, by the way. I read that in college. It's Keith Ferrazzi, I think, wrote it. Did you ever read that? I think you have a copy of it. I've got a copy of it. I don't think I've read it. Well, you kind of do a lot of that stuff naturally, too.

Yeah, I should read through it, because there's probably a lot of things I can take from it. But Eric is someone who inspires me a lot with that, because I naturally do like to bring people together, and his ability to just seamlessly it, um As you said, tons of work building up to that. But at this point it seems like it's so natural to, you know, the point where he's just having, you know, three or five people over at his sauna in his backyard, but he's been able to tap into something that's pretty special where it's like, [00:07:00] he is facilitating these events.

And if us to meet in his sauna and he literally doesn't say anything, but it's like, where'd you meet Eric in the sauna? Like he, he gets some level of credibility from that relationship being built. And, um, I don't think he's an ultimate connector. Yeah, it's, it's what he gets energy from. Yeah, for sure.

You get to see it when he gets to have other people around and like real friends want to watch their friends win. So totally genuine person. And you're like, Oh, Harry should really meet Brett because they're doing the same thing and you get energy from it. It's, it's who you want your friends to be your fossil friends or whatever, whatever else you want to call it.

Yeah, in Austin, like when I, when I go around town and see people that have come together through like an event that we've hosted or like a run group that we've done, it wasn't even anything that I had any foresight on or we've had any foresight on other than just trying to bring people together. But seeing people [00:08:00] who you're like naturally, they're like, wow, they were, that was meant to happen.

I don't know how I didn't think to introduce them, but yeah, there's something I think Brett and I have done. Since getting to Austin and we've, I think we've built out a great network through the show, but also through stuff in Austin is just trying to create these serendipitous moments, serendipitous moments where people can just naturally come across maybe their next friend, business partner, or just someone that they can pull from like what you're saying about just, you know, someone who can offer up some advice or skill set in a conversation that Um, could only be 20 minutes, but it might be like a perspective shift that gives them that motivation to do something different with their lives.

So it's cool just seeing relationships form naturally. I think Erica has just mastered it. Yeah. Something that I've done probably for the past 18 months or so is I like to call them zone two meetings where I've been sending, I've sent blind emails or blind DMs to people who I found interesting.

Something I wanted to learn from for years. Um, and. [00:09:00] You can get pretty crafty with writing a subject line to get somebody to open it. It's like writing a tweet thread or a hook or something. And I was like, where I first cut my teeth, I was like, Oh, if I really want to meet this person, how do I get them to open this email?

And then how do I get them to read the next line? And how do I get them to say yes to a coffee meeting? Like one of the things that kind of stood out, at least in the health and wellness space was a lot of these people will train, whether they're entrepreneurs or athletes, why don't I just meet them at the gym?

It's somewhere they're already going to be going. Something they're going to be doing or go for a run. So I've been doing zone two meetings and I got to meet some incredible people and get a workout in with them. And it's such a such a easy low lift for them because something they're already doing and you build relationships through shared suffering.

So if you go and get a hard workout in or go and rip a run with somebody and suffer together and are able to keep up, all of a sudden you look after you look at each other afterwards and there's a mutual respect that's deeper than any tequila shot in a bar or any cup of iced Americano. Yeah. Yeah, it removes friction, right?

Because it's already, like you said, it's already part of their routine. They're going to go [00:10:00] to the gym early. So they're kind of just like flowing with that. You're suffering together. You're sharing endorphins. And you actually get to know someone in the midst of like a challenging workout or something like that too.

It kind of like breaks all those barriers down that might be similar to like when you're sitting across the table for a cup of coffee. Like you get rid of all that resistance. Yeah, it's pretty interesting to see people too in a hard workout to tell so much about them. Yeah, the person who doesn't get up off the ground and starts skipping reps towards the end.

You're like, hmm You're not the person I thought you were. Yeah, yeah or they're absolutely crushing and cheering you on like a huge thing is like I love like noticing at the end of workouts if it's a big group workout. Who's there cheering on the other people at the end of it? Yes. Who's kind of packing up ready in the corner.

Tells you a lot about the person. Yeah, we actually have a buddy, Khalil, who runs Sun Life Organics. God, he's taking so much of my money. Yeah, yeah. 75 every time. You'd get the billionaire bowl. The billionaire bowl. Well no, it'll be a smoothie, a ketone shot, and a bottle of water and [00:11:00] it's like 48. But it's the best 48 I've ever spent because the quality is literally that good.

Everything is the highest quality ingredient. But, he actually, I don't know if he told you this story too, he might have told both of us, but he was close to investing in an Austin based company and he got a work item with the founder of the collective. And he said the founder like bitched out during the workout so badly that he actually didn't invest because that was like his uh, He was able to like extrapolate.

Hey, what would this founder be like in the trenches when shit hits the family can't raise capital, etc Um, so I think that's pretty interesting Yeah, I think it's fascinating I think you can learn so much about people too, but also from conversations and how they treat other people in general I think if you Actually listen and watch how people interact it's pretty easy to tell kind of like what Kind of person someone is, or it's like, Oh, is that the person that I want to be in 10 or 20 years, or is that not?

And I think being conscious about that when you're younger and in your twenties or early twenties and looking at [00:12:00] people's lifestyles, designs, what are the games they're playing? How much time do they get to spend with their family allows you to back out and start to create that best day ever. I don't know if you guys have ever done that exercise that Eric talks about writing that tiny wins.

Um, that everybody says they want their life to be around. Most people don't actually sit, spend the time and write it out. And it's an incredibly powerful frame. Can you explain that? Yeah. How do you do it? So, I mean, this is a question, um, It's like, what does your best day ever look like? And you can go and be anywhere or do anything.

What does your day look like? Like, where are you waking up? What time are you waking up? Uh, what's the first activity are you doing? Are you drinking coffee? What are you eating? What are you spending your time doing? Who are you with? And kind of, just break out a piece of paper and write it out on a journal page or something and just look at it.

And then it can be as extreme or extravagant as you want it to be, where it's, I wake up in the south of France and I'm sipping espresso on the water, which [00:13:00] probably isn't realistic on a day to day in terms of every single day. But all of a sudden you can start to look at patterns and be like, oh, I want to wake up before the sun rises.

And then, oh, I want to have really good coffee first thing in the morning. And then, oh, I want to Have a great workout before 7 a. m. And then I want to sit down and I want to write for two hours and you start to layer in and notice the patterns and kind of abstract it out. And then you look at it and be like, Oh, this is relatively doable or it's achievable in the next 10 years.

If I want to have four hours in my day to go for a workout, well I better get my ass to work now and not work out for four hours in the middle of the day. Now, if I want to do it at 40 when I have kids. Yeah. Yeah. There's something powerful about Just stripping away of all other designs of life, things that people just, by nature, you know, they, they think about what they've seen and other people, you know, going to work nine to five, and they don't really think about what could be possible.

They don't think about just get rid of all the barriers and all [00:14:00] the things that society tells you you need to be a part of your day, and just bake in, like, the things you like and see what happens. Yeah, I think there's different levels to it, too. Yeah. Like, the way that I would Write it out at 24. It's different than how I want it to look at 48.

Right. A wife and kids or whatever else is going on in life. But if I want to be able to have that then, that's going to dictate the decisions that I make today. Mm hmm. Yeah, it's kind of similar. It's almost like a smaller version of Jordan Peterson's future offering program. You'll take these different buckets of your life, whether it's like your marriage, your business, where you want to be in 10 years and you literally very descriptively write out what do those things look like.

And it's like, why didn't no one teach us that when we were kids? Like, you need an end goal in mind to be able to shoot for and work backwards. Otherwise, like, where are we going? We're kind of just spinning our wheels. Yeah, I think that's huge from a time perspective. And the one piece that I had a conversation with somebody recently about is like the financial aspect of all of that.

It fundamentally blows my mind that most people, [00:15:00] like we can, we graduate from degrees in college, like I got a degree in finance. And I was getting ready to sign a lease or whatever and I was like, I have no idea how much money I should be spending on rent or what. And I was like, what? Like, and I'm supposed to, like, I went to school for it.

Like, theoretically, I've more educated than other people on that. So that's something that you have to learn for yourself. And it's been like one of the patterns I've noticed the most with successful people over the past year is every single one of them is extremely financially savvy, but it's self taught in a certain way They didn't necessarily have, there's no secret glass ball where someone can be like, this is how you go from here to there in terms of what you should put your money into the S& P 500 or Uber, right?

If we could go back in time, we would buy Uber today. Everyone would, because you see that, but you don't have that then. So that what are the like overarching frameworks that you can start to develop and mapping out your Roth IRA, but nobody teaches you that. And that falls on you in your twenties to start to figure that out.

And there's so much insecurity that comes from not knowing that. I think. Yeah. [00:16:00] So what other high performers have you been around that you've drawn something from? Like, you mentioned like, Zaheel Bloom and some of these other guys. Like, you've gotten some serious exposure at the age of 24 to some seriously legit guys.

So I'm curious, anyone else that stands out? I mean, I'm incredibly grateful for all the people I've gotten to meet before. Um, so many incredible mentors who took chances on me. I think everything in life can be chased back to a series of five or six yeses. that create these free fall moments where everything starts to fall into place.

One of them was the coach that said yes to me to come to the University of Colorado. Had that not happened, I wouldn't be sitting here today. Then there was another, um, one where I sent a blind email to an athlete. Um, and I got connected to his manager and I ended up working for that manager's company.

It's Matt O'Keefe, um, from HWPO. So I interviewed with him and two days later I flew out to the Granite Games. My sophomore year of high school. He's an incredibly influential person on the trajectory of how things have gone over the past couple of years. And that was one of those yeses where [00:17:00] it changed everything for me.

And there's so many other people along the way. Uh, my dad. Uh, but you never really can tell that in real time. You don't know what ask is too much or what ask is really worth it. And you can only connect the pieces looking backwards. Yeah, yeah. No, you definitely, that's definitely true. And the other interesting thing about you too is you're talking about having this like self taught skill set.

And I feel like you're a really interesting example of that where it's like, amazing ghostwriter, great at building out newsletters, spearheading marketing efforts, leveraging AI. Like, I'm very, I think Harry and I are both very impressed by guys like you and what you're doing at a really young age. And I'm just curious, like, What was kind of the impetus from a business perspective to build out that skill set?

Like, did you realize in college, Hey, I'm probably, probably don't want to go to the corporate path. It's probably this digital path. Therefore, I should have a valuable skill set or like, how did that all start? I mean, I wanted to be [00:18:00] a professional athlete when I graduated. I want to be a professional skier.

Three years ago, July of 2021, the NIL, so name, image, likeness changes, go into effect for college athletes. So you can start signing money with brands or signing endorsement deals. I had no idea how to write an endorsement deal or what a brand contract looked like or how to create content or anything. So I was like, I probably should learn this if I want to be a professional athlete, because I don't want to pay 20 percent off the top to an agent.

I can figure that out. That seems like a lot of money. Turned out being no money. Never, never really signed an endorsement deal, but in the perfect world, it would have been. Um, so that was kind of the motivation and I started looking at athletes that I thought did a good job of it. And that's how I got, um, connected to Matt O'Keefe.

And then I flew out and I worked with their marketing agency doing fitness events, um, as well as some like brand and marketing work for clients. And that was kind of the initial one. And then in school, I launched a drink company, um, Yerba Mate with one of my college teammates. So I was always interested in entrepreneurship and that was trial by fire.

We didn't know a single thing in the [00:19:00] world. But we learned how to get FDA approval and then do wholesaling and get a warehouse and do all these different things. Um, and then I graduated a year ago, uh, actually last week, I met Pete the day after college graduation. Pete's the founder of Sisu. I met him in Araken, Mansana the day after I graduated.

And for whatever reason, I said yes to Eric that I would go and sauna that day. Meanwhile, I'd been up since 4 a. m. the day before when the bars opened early, drinking margaritas. And when I woke up and my alarm went off that day, it was not what I thought. It was going to be, and I was like, damn, I really want to stay in bed.

But I said, yeah, so I had to go. I went and got a gallon of water and drove down and I had no idea of what I was going to do. I remember waking up that day being like, what the hell am I doing with my life? Like, I'm not going to be an athlete. I don't have a job. I have no idea what the hell I'm doing. And I was scared.

Like I felt alone. I was like, what would that, what the hell was the point of all of this stuff? Drove down in the sauna, met Pete, um, kind of hit it off with him and asked me if I [00:20:00] wanted to do some website edits. And I was like, sure. Sounds great. Um, hopefully I'm gonna get a job in September doing marketing in Boston.

And I was like, I'm gonna run with this, I'm gonna go to Europe for a couple weeks, and I'm gonna get paid to work from a coffee shop. September rolls around, that job's not there anymore. I'm like, okay, what do I do now? This is going well, but I don't really have the skill set to keep doing this. And that's, um, and I was kind of writing for some people, but I wasn't really good at it.

I hadn't written a paper since like sophomore year of college. And somehow it convinced people to let me write for them. So then I was like, okay, I need to learn how to do this. Um, so then I started spending two to four hours a day writing by hand originally. I transcribed some books and then I started typing them.

And I took some writing courses, but it was just reps and sets of it. And the reason I wanted to learn how to write was one, um, in marketing, most of the best marketers started as copywriters. It teaches you control over the language. Two, AI is being trained off the written [00:21:00] language. So if you learn how to write, you can essentially learn how to build code.

And once you can write your own code, you can train the software to do whatever you want it to do. That's extremely compounding skill set. So like, that's kind of what created the drive to learn how to do it. But I got to optimize time to be around really interesting people if I was willing to go straight for them.

So I was optimizing for opportunities, learning, and relationships. And like, I just happened to have to learn how to write in order to do that based on the decisions I was making in my life. Got it. And so Pete saw enough in you where eventually he was like, Hey, I want you to help me spearhead marketing efforts over here too.

Yeah, I went from doing Shopify website edits to managing the marketing within like four months and quickly we've hired somebody to do Shopify edits because I wasn't very good at it. Yeah But it's it's crazy to me to think like this all started with some just skill stacking Really around writing, but now you've stacked all these other skills on top of it.

I'm curious if you were [00:22:00] speaking to yourself three, four years ago, where would you tell someone who's trying to get an entrepreneurship or just trying to go off on their own and maybe do some freelancing, like what skills do you think people should or need to know how to do, especially with some of the evidence of new technology, like you're now learning a lot about AI now.

Um, where would you kind of direct people's focus? I mean, where can you provide the most value to somebody? How can you take things off their plate that are going to make their life easier and that make them more money. I'd like the way that you want to tie compensation essentially is to revenue growth or like a KPI.

So how can I one, make your life easier and to help you make money and don't pay me until I start doing both of those two things. Like that's the easiest way to get around really high performance, because if they're going to give them back time and you're going to help them make more money, who wouldn't say yes to that?

Yeah. It's just writing the incredible offer essentially. Um, but that's not really the skillset or the question that you were asking. I think just like the way that the [00:23:00] world is working, um, content or attention, I would say even more so with the new currency, um, where having an audience or building a following or being able to capture eyeballs is.

arguably the most valuable investment anybody in their 20s can build in building a brand, um, for themselves or for others. Uh, if you don't have the skill sets to do that for yourself, get around somebody who's done it before, learn how to do it. Um, and then two, artificial intelligence is fundamentally going to change the way that the world works.

It's tremendously underhyped right now. Most people, um, you guys are probably in the top 1 percent of users in the world, knowledgeable about it, and probably don't use it as much as you could. Yeah. Um, I think Surprising us. I'm just being, like, you guys are living in Austin, Texas. There's no way you guys aren't in the forefront of figuring out how this stuff works.

Definitely. What's really interesting, though, is, like, you look at it from a competitive marketplace, like, Let's say we're going to use marketing as an [00:24:00] example. If you have a 60 year old marketing executive who's been doing marketing for 60 years or 40 years, he's going to have way more experience than you.

You're not going to be able to compete with that. But AI is coming out and it's going to change the future of the world. It's six months old. You can learn that. You can catch up on that six month learning curve a lot faster than you could on that 60 year period. So how can you become an expert in marketing with AI to then be able to provide value to this 60 year old executive and be like, Oh yeah, this is the way that you guys have done things.

Here's how you can involve the new technology to do it better. Now that conversation that you have in the room is very different when you're 24 talking to a 60 year old executive. Like you're asking things in a different way, but everybody has value to provide based on the experiences that you have.

How can you optimize the skillsets that you're learning at 24 years old to create the most value for you and leverage long term. Are there any AI driven platforms that you think brands should really be leading into [00:25:00] and leveraging right now? Casper. io, um, is one that I find fascinating. It's essentially building AI workflows for everything in your team, or has the function to do it.

It's relatively simple. Um, I'd be bullish about that one. Um, and then ChatQPT4 is the one I use the most, um, just because it's kind of built off the open AI, uh, model, like language source. And I think that kind of has the staying power in a way where. Like, Google was the first one that came out with a search engine, and there's a reason we call it Google.

I mean, we don't call it going to Bing, even though Bing is making a comeback right now because Microsoft's pushing. But that's regardless of the point. What's the next evolution for AI? Like, I feel like right now it's still so early. Like, you even hear, like, Sam Altman the other day, I heard him in an interview saying that in six months, you're gonna laugh at what Jacksepticeye.

Like, four. [00:26:00] Was because it was legitimately like nothing close to what, what we're going towards. So I'm curious, like, what, what's your perspective on where this is all heading? Yeah, well, given I'm not Sam Alton, I don't have that kind of insight. I'm not that much of an expert at AI, but I mean, the way that I would look at it is think about it like a year ago when chat GPT three came out and all of a sudden you're trying to like use it to write a college paper.

And I was talking to a professor about this at CU a couple of weeks ago. And he thought it was. Suddenly, overnight, my, like, worst English writers were spitting out papers that were, like, perfectly organized. And we had no idea what the hell was going on. We're like, wow, we must be a really good teacher.

And then, all of a sudden, they start to catch up on the technology. And then, if you look at what the AI was able to do a year ago or 18 months ago to what it's able to do today, that rate of learning that it's gone through and how much better it is over a period of 12 months is one of the fastest we've ever seen.

Right, so then how is that going to continue to compound over another year, another five years, another ten years? Like, [00:27:00] I have no idea where it's going to be because the rate of learning of it is going to just continue to expedite exponentially. I can even see it with prompting threads a year ago versus now.

I feel like if you just wrote in a blind prompt on a particular topic for a Twitter thread, it was very clear to tell that it was written, um, in chat GPT. It was still great. You could kind of use it as a skeleton. And I would say now when you prompt it the right way, it's like, it's not fully there, but it's far better than it was a year ago.

Yeah, a lot of our issues with AI comes down to our ability to communicate with the technology, not issues in the fundamental technology. Like, most people don't have clarity of thought around the ideas that they're doing and are not very good at giving directions. Yeah. I think about it too. An intern who you hire for the company if you tell them just go get me a coffee They're going to come back with a black coffee, but you're like, oh, I really wanted A cappuccino with an extra shot of espresso and two pints of hazelnut Right.

So if you don't tell them [00:28:00] to do that, they're not going to do it So like thinking of it as an intern I think is a very interesting frame around the idea, because it really just comes down to the spesis, spes, yeah, spethes, spesis. Specificity. Yeah, that word. Just saying. Yeah, I'm not even going to try, uh, of the direction that you give it.

Right, so if you gave it a 200 word prompt, or 200 character prompt, write me a Twitter thread on regenerative agriculture, versus a 750 word prompt with four examples of Twitter threads that you've written. write me a twitter thread, um, use this type of structure that has four different options of hooks that you write, and then you break it down in steps further where it's like, okay, I want it to be, uh, punchy, um, write as an expert copywriter in the voice of Joe Sugarman and use a punchy 200 character hook, um, have it be spaced out in this way with this structure.

Here's four examples of my writing. All of a sudden you're going to get a very different response. Dude, that is so wild. Just think [00:29:00] about that. I remember even like when you and I and Harry all met and you were giving me some instructions just to prompt better on chat GPT. This was right around the time that I think we had, we had a shipping issue for noble.

And so I had written out my own email, just kind of apologizing to customers, blasted it out on Clavio. It did, it did fairly well. And then I entered in like some of the prompts that you had told me. And what it gave me back in 15 seconds, I was like, this is far better than what I wrote. And I consider myself to be like a fairly proficient writer too.

And my mind, like, it almost, it almost broke just thinking about what it's going to be like in the future. Yeah. Even with the podcast, I mean, the, like when we started the show, AI wasn't a thing. So like I was sitting there going through every little detail of getting the show ready to go. Now there's Clipping tools.

There's tools that can help you write the show notes get keywords all that all from just [00:30:00] like putting a transcript of the chat JBT and you know, it does a good enough job and it definitely still requires a ton of work Or boy that overhears the the AI guru, but The evolution of the tech is crazy. Like it legitimately helps so much just to be able to go through that whole transcription in like a pretty short period of time.

Yeah. I think what's interesting though, is looking at this longterm again is what this does to the underlying skill sets that people develop. Because what are people who are supposed to be a fund manager 30 or 35 when they never actually had to do the financial analysis work? To develop the skill set to make those decisions Right, like it's the moat for people who are experts in their craft is going to become bigger and bigger And the people who have those skill sets are going to be more highly rewarded into the future because The learning opportunities in jobs are going to go away because it's going to [00:31:00] be cheaper faster and more efficient to use technology So i'm think the average person, like if you're average at your job, you're in a pretty scary place right now because technology is going to come and take it away.

And it's only experts who are going to be like, there's going to be a continued shift where if you're an expert in your field, you're going to be more compensated for the work that you're doing. And the moats only going to get bigger and bigger because nobody's going to be learning the skill sets that you spent years and years doing because technology is going to be doing it for you.

Now given AI is gonna like create new jobs and like there's gonna be different skill sets that come from it But yeah, I think it's fascinating It really is so don't be average. No, I mean, I don't think anybody want like the average American is overweight divorce and obese Not a good kind of press like I don't think so if you make the average decisions that people are making That's probably where you're gonna end up So how can you make non average decisions?

Is it not going out on the Thursday night? Is it [00:32:00] cutting back on your alcohol intake? Is it waking up and going to the gym first thing in the morning? How can you do things now that are going to create the life that you want in the future? Are you generally optimistic about the future? Like, I think it's, there's like a lot of people who can get like doom and gloom talking about what you're talking about with AI, maybe taking a bunch of people's jobs, but I see it as an opportunity.

Yeah, I would definitely say, um, I'm like a glass half full. Kind of guy. Um, and it's super interesting where like, I think entrepreneurship in general has been democratized by these tools as well as Shopify in a way that has never been, that never happened before. Like the average person can pick up the skill sets that we were talking about earlier and make a hundred, 120, 130 grand, um, at home with control over their own schedule in a way that it's never been able, people have never been able to do before.

But at the same time. Just looking at power laws, if it's way easier to start a business, more people are going to be starting a business. [00:33:00] So then the competition is therefore going to be higher to get to the next level. So I think it's only going to become a more competitive marketplace, but like, theoretically, that's how games evolve over time.

Where, like, the levels of the game is just going to get better and better and better as a byproduct of more people having access to opportunity. Yeah. I just, I don't know how you can't be excited to live in this day and age, right? Yeah. Just like the acceleration or everything that's happening, the democratization.

Obviously, like you said, more competition, but competition is great. It's going to create a better end product for the user at the end of the day, too. And I mean, if you knew the things that you would be able to do now at 24, I'm sure you would be, like, amazed, right? Yeah, I do think there are some byproducts.

Like, I think, For the most part, the food in the U. S. is a mess. Like, um, I think soul food media is actually detrimental for 99 percent of people. Um, but I think for some people, if you view it as a tool, it's incredibly powerful. That's what all of these things are. They're tools that make your life easier.[00:34:00]

But if your life gets easier, you don't fill it with another void. What's the point? Yeah. Yeah. But in part of me too, things, education. Yeah. I mean, education is, is getting democratized as well with YouTube. And like, I think about how most people are spending their time pretending like they're learning a lot at school, but it's really like people are just like partying, wasting a lot of time.

Whereas people who are just trying to bootstrap their own education, learn things as they go, watch a YouTube video, build something, go take a course. Like there's so much access to information out there that people are putting out there. So you're seeing these legacy systems just erode away. And I think education for me is one that is scary because if you get caught into the trap of going down the path of thinking like conventionally through the standard, you know, get the degree and get that job.

Like I can see that being a very stale path for a lot of people. But if you're kind of [00:35:00] thinking about the future and able to see through a few steps here, there's a bright future for people who are just like, I'm going to teach myself how to do this stuff because. Now all the information is accessible to me.

Like, I can just go, go learn all that stuff on my own. Yeah, I think that's really interesting. Um, education in general. My mom was a teacher. Both my grandmothers were teachers. My sister's a third grade teacher in Boston. And the stories she shares with me when she comes home from work, I'm like, how are you dealing with 24 people, uh, 24 children all day, every day?

And then like, this is the amount of money that you're making for that? Where? I think it's like a fascinating issue where, and, um, all of a sudden too, it's like if you're supposed to have support and aids and somebody calls in sick and all of a sudden that, that support's not there and somebody shows up hungry.

Um, how are you supposed to teach the kid who's showing up hungry and doesn't know where their next meal is going to come from? Um, the same as this other kid. And how does that compound from the time they're in third grade to the [00:36:00] time that they're graduating from high school? Um, and yeah, I do agree that like education, like I would, I had a hard time with aspects of it.

I learned more from other aspects outside of college and opportunities with like businesses and internships and certain things than I might have done in the classroom. But then like that skill set. It does continue to grow over time, and like there's, last week I sent an email to a professor and the subject line was, I should have paid more attention in class.

I had to look up one of the formulas you said that we needed to do, um, we needed to know cold because we'd use it every day. And it was true, but I could just Google it and look it up. I had a waste time with aspects of it. There's a certain balance to it. I think yeah I feel like this podcast is going to be a really cool time capsule for us in a couple of years because what harry and I always say is that You can make a list of like these younger awesome dudes that we know that we would bet on to be incredibly successful You're like right at the top of the list And so I think that's probably true.

I'm not sure. But, [00:37:00] no. Can I, can I play the house? Can I show? Absolutely not. But dude, it's just been so cool getting to know you in a short period of time. And just so excited for you with Leadville, the ability that we get to work together as well and be friends with you, man. I mean, we've personally learned a lot from you.

And um, just appreciate you coming on the show and sharing what you're sharing. Yeah, it's been super, super fun podcasting. My favorite thing to do. I just love having real conversations with real people. It's the best. And having you here in Austin has been great too. Just getting to share some face time.

Like I know you two had met before, but just getting to, uh, actually sit down and hang out for a bit. It's been great. Yeah, it's been fun. Yeah. Appreciate your brother. Awesome. Cool. Thanks Bobby.