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Welcome to The Pilot Project Podcast, your premier source for stories and insights from pilots in the RCAF and mission aviation - brought to you by Skies Magazine! Whether you're an aspiring aviator, navigating flight training, or simply fascinated by the world of military and mission aviation, this podcast is your guide. We sit down with pilots and aviation professionals to hear their thrilling experiences, lessons learned, and expert advice on resilience, training, and the skills needed to succeed in this exciting field. Strap in - we’re ready for departure!
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Bryan:Alright. We're ready for departure here at the Pilot Project Podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots brought to you by Sky's Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. And here with me today for a discussion on the Snowbirds and the legacy of the tutor is major Maciej Match Hatta, the current Snowbird one and team lead of the Canadian Forces Snowbirds. Match, thanks so much for coming back and being on the show.
Bryan:Where are you joining us from today?
Match:Today, I am in I gotta look out the window because I often forget, Quebec City. So we just, we just two hopped down from Columbus, Ohio, where it was last time we chatted, yesterday, and then ended up doing a non aerobatic display at the end of a two hop day as well to try to salvage the Saint George Aerofete Boas yesterday with all the weather and complications we had in transit and everything. Yeah. So
Bryan:Well, I really appreciate you being here today after a super busy day and a lot of flying. So thank you for being here.
Match:Thanks for having me. And, before we start, actually, a shout out to you. I was just, in the car driving to find a nice trail run, to beat myself up and, yeah, listening to The Climb, the first version of the roundup. And it it's nice hearing all these stories, but I understand from my video background that it's a ton of work editing and everything. So shout out to you for getting these stories out there that are often untold and, know, you hear about it at the mess or something like that, and now there's a greater venue for it.
Match:So kudos to you and your team for making it work. It's it's great to hear. It's awesome to listen to and anytime I have time in the car driving. So, yeah, great work.
Bryan:Oh, thanks so much, man. It was a ton of work, way more work than we anticipated. And I have to give a huge shout out to my very patient wife who has basically not seen me for a week and a half while I worked on it, and I'm working on part two. And also for her hard work in helping me work out a framework that would work and choosing the clips and all that stuff. So thank you, Melissa.
Bryan:So today, we are going to be talking about your time on the Snowbirds. You've been on the team twice, once in four years starting in 2013 and then, of course, now as Snowbird one. So listeners may recall that the last time we spoke, we focused on matches time in jets and fighters in test pilot school and working with at in Ottawa. We ended with talking about some of the modernization work he did on the tutor. And, now we're gonna be talking, as I said, about, all his time on the Snowbirds.
Bryan:So rewinding the tape back, you had done a bunch of operational jet stuff. You had just deployed to Libya fairly recently. What led you to the Snowbirds?
Match:I mean, that was always the goal from the outset. If you remember the Blue Angels kind of VHS story
Bryan:Of course. Yeah.
Match:That we shared there. So that was that was the inspiration to take up aviation watching that video and then realizing, okay, that's the American equivalent. Well, what's in Canada? Surely, there's something cool like that up here. And lo and behold, I found it in the form of going to the Hamilton Air Show on a Father's Day weekend with my dad and also picking up some, 1995, I think it would have twenty fifth anniversary memorabilia and brochures that were down in the Niagara Region there and, going through them and then cutting out those pictures, putting them on my wall in my room, which was full.
Match:Like, all four walls were were full of airplane pictures and cutouts and everything and helicopters and all the various Macdonald Douglas memorabilia that my dad, would bring home and stuff like that. So so that was the goal right from the outset almost. And so, yeah, I just wanted to work hard to try to get there throughout, my junior flying career after I got my wings.
Bryan:And I think you were saying, if I recall correctly, you had an opportunity to go to test pilot school and then this opportunity for the Snowbirds came around. So tell us about that.
Match:Yeah. So I was in comms with the some people down in Moose Jaw that were on the team that I knew, and they said, no. Unfortunately, there's no room for fighter candidates this year on the team. Really? So I kinda put my eggs in the, in the AT tryout basket, and that was right around the time I was doing the AT tryout up in Cold Lake.
Match:I kinda I leaned that route, and then literally at the end of the two, two and a half week tryout, we're sitting down with the CEO of AT, and I get a text that morning just before that saying, actually, we are short people. You should come down and try it. And lo and behold, I thought in my head really quickly, like, well, this can only work one way if I want both these things because AT will be around forever, and the tutor may not be. And this was back in 2012, trying out in the fall of twenty twelve, believe it or not, given our context. But, so my intent sitting down with the CO is I mean, a pretty honest guy.
Match:I told him, like, listen. I wanna do this thing, and I also wanna do this. Kinda like my first chat with my four zero nine CO. Mhmm. And in my head, it only made sense to do it this one way, and that was to try out for the Snowbirds first.
Match:At least then I would know if I made it or not. And at the time, they never took majors in any of the two through nine, single digit positions, whereas nowadays, it's open to captains or majors. But before, it wasn't. In the in the chance that I got pinned up, after doing some time at AT, which often people do, then I would have kinda accidentally closed that door for the Snowbirds. Or in all honesty, who knows, you know, how long the the Tutor was gonna be flying even back then.
Match:Mhmm. Yeah. So I decided to go that route first, and they were happy to just, okay, call us when you've done that, and, and we'll have something for you at eighty. And that was literally it. So it was, like, the best job interview ever.
Match:Fantastic.
Bryan:I have a couple questions. The first one is you mentioned that they were not taking fighter applicants. That kinda surprises me that they would be like, hey, we have enough fighter people considering they would be the only ones coming in with jet experience. What's the story there? Like, how does it work in terms of numbers of people from which communities?
Match:So typically, they do look for a fighter keg, person to be on the team, at least one, if not more. But I can't remember exactly what the makeup of the team was at the time going in. And so there was probably sufficient people on the team or perhaps it was a a CAG decision.
Bryan:A CAG is a capability advisory group and is the body of expertise on each community. And it's also a group that basically we think of the Pilot as belonging to when it comes to determining career management and postings.
Match:I don't know. I can't really speak to what that was like. It was literally a text from folks down in Moose Jaw.
Bryan:So Okay. So kind of may could have been unique circumstances or something. It would not really a matter of policy.
Match:Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Obviously, we do wanna try to like, the Snowbirds are very unique. They're not like the American teams, for example, that all generally come from a fighter background, whether it be Thunderbirds or Blue Angels.
Match:Here in Canada, like my last year on the Tudor, the whole right side of the team flew Sea Kings. Yeah. And the joke was, well, they're they're great at flying old, pieces of aircraft. So yeah. And had just the right, amplitude oscillations to be good at formation and everything.
Match:So
Bryan:Yeah. The other question I had was you mentioned that at the time, the only position for a major on the Snowbirds was Snowbird one. Does that mean that basically if you hadn't been on the team as a captain, you couldn't get in? Or could you be Snowbird one as a first year Snowbird? Like, how did that work?
Match:Yeah. So that's another comparison I'll draw to the American teams where typically Thunderbird or Blue Angel one would have never previously been on either of those teams. Here in Canada, we do it the other way where in order to be Snowbird one, you have to have had time on the team. And it's a matter of, you know, the aircraft they're flying or were flying is unique right now. Now that AT's done with them as well, only the only four three one flies the tutor.
Match:So without that background to jump in cold to the team lead position to not know the culture of the team, how the briefing, debriefing works, how the maneuvers work, everything. That would be a hard thing to sell to a brand new team lead. And so that's a requirement for us. Whereas other teams that, you know, pool from larger, typically fighter pilot communities, it's a lot easier to just train the boss having had the breadth of experience on the aircraft already than just tailoring to the specifics of the of the demonstration.
Bryan:Yeah. That makes sense. Especially when you mentioned that no one would come in with tutor experience versus like the American teams where, you know, the Thunderbirds fly an f 16, the Blue Angels fly an f 18. So, obviously, there's a a wealth of experience in those aircraft out there amongst their fleets. So
Match:Mhmm.
Bryan:That makes sense to me. So you ended up going through selection and you made the teams. Can you tell us about that experience going through selection?
Match:Yeah. The tryout at the time was one of the hardest things I've done in my life especially from a flying perspective. I mean, the airplane itself is fairly simple to fly. We can be start up taxi takeoff done in about six minutes Wow. From, like, a pre start check, basically.
Match:So it's super simple to fly and operate, but then all the nuances of the formations and how four three one does business from a standard maneuvers manual point of view and the specifics, the nuances that are essentially learned through practice over, well, now fifty five plus seasons of, actual air demonstration. It's, it's quite a nut to crack when you're going in it for the first time cold because typically, you'd have a little formation section and every how to fly or scan a maneuvers manual and it'd be specific to that airplane. And now we take that to the nth degree. We have different terminology for what your air is when you're flying in formation and, you know, using words outside those are not irrelevant, but basically take up air when, you know, we're trying to get through as minimal gas as we have on the tutor, get through debriefs, get on with the next set of reps of, formation practice. So there's quite a lot of nuanced elements in the in the maneuvers manuals that need to be learned and just the style of formation flying and the overall culture of, like, k.
Match:How do we sit down before debriefing? What do we what do we jot down? What's important on this big whiteboard that has a bunch of numbers and and, elements to the briefing? And then, something as simple as, like, where do you put that card where you wrote all those formations down in the airplane? Like, you put it somewhere visible and, like, what's all the techniques of doing this?
Match:And, you know, what, what's the standard check-in and what frequencies do you meet on? Do you auto push to? You know, what's the hand drill with the technician when you're starting the jet? All kinds of pages and pages of nuanced behaviors that you're trying to learn. And now picture having never flown the airplane.
Match:I did actually have five hours in it from the AT tryout. Right. Yeah. So these kind of two tryouts almost went back to back. So the AT tryout was in September 2012 in the fall, and then my tutor or my, Snowbirds tryout was the spring after that, so in January, February that year.
Match:So I did come in with five hours of tutor flying now. Again, to the previous chat of how different test flight was, it wasn't really the same. I mean, we'd be going through a checklist and doing flight testy type things, and here they are doing everything, rote memory starts and abbreviated kind of cheater checks to to get the airplane going and everything going in formation. So relearning that was, was key. Luckily, we had a great group of four candidates, during my tryout, and we all made it.
Match:Oh, wow. I actually ended up getting sick for a portion of it and thought I was gonna lose out on the tryout just because I had lost a week of flying and everything, but they held me, or they held it, a little longer so that I can finish. And then in the end, yeah, we all made it. And, actually, Maurice Carmichael was the CO at the time just finishing up her tenure. And, yeah.
Match:So we would find out our our final fate, I guess, in the in the Snowbirds Lounge, in the old ground school building in Moose Jaw. They would always once somebody passed, they would always, you know, play along a bit, and be like, well, you know, your formation skills are lacking and then, you know, drag you along. And then at the very end of a long winded kind of let down statement, they would be like, but you can try to improve that next year on the team. And and it was just the most kinda strung out, tear jerking kinda moment, but it was great, and all four of us made it. And, yeah, the tryouts themselves are pretty challenging, so you end up like, we did a tryout of six to seven flights formation and one flight, with a solo.
Match:Basically, in the formation trips, I think we started as a three ship then worked up to four ships, and you're doing echelon and and, line of stern and eventually, like, outer position flying, which is like echelon off the line of stern aircraft that's behind the lead, which is new to everybody. Nobody else but us does that. So if you had an advantage, let's say, if coming from the school and getting a bit of practice mooch flying formation before you went to your tryout, then this would have been a new position that you wouldn't have even seen. And, obviously, the aggressiveness of the maneuvers like we would do up and downs, up and downs with wraps, which are, like, 120 in threes. So pitching up to about 30 degrees and banking over to a 120 degrees all in formation, all on the wing.
Bryan:While pulling three g?
Match:Yeah. Reversing that, as the nose drops through the horizon, reversing that into basically a wrap, which is like a two and a two and a half to three g level turn. And so you're hanging on with the g's, in a turn that way and then rolling out. And we would just do that ad nauseam in the tryouts and and a bunch of rejoins as well because the rejoins are quite dynamic compared to what you what people have probably experienced elsewhere. They're a lot faster paced.
Match:You know, we have to have up to nine airplanes sorry, up to eight airplanes rejoining, and so you can't just, you know, lollygag in the back because then it would take forever. So there's Mhmm. Very nuanced ways of of getting in there and taking rejoin lines to make sure that you have a hot enough aspect and and line to get in there quickly and not delay others behind you. So all that was was part of the tryout, and then there's a bit of a social aspect as well. So we sat down, had a dinner with the current team, and they're all facing you on a long table having dinner and, like, dinner's provided, so it's great.
Match:But there's four of you candidates sitting there stressing out. You're cramming all the squadron history, you know, an hour beforehand in case questions came up on that. But invariably, there are always questions you didn't know and you kinda stumbled through. And it really is an exercise to see your personality and see, you know, how you can how quickly you can think on your feed or answer questions or not BS people if you don't know type thing because that is realistic for what we get on the throughout the show season from the different crowds and autograph lines and, outreach events. So you'll see the full breadth of, you know, interactions with people and, your ability to, you know, be be social enough to to handle that and not drain yourself or totally close off and not talk to anyone, which obviously defeats the purpose of us as in your demonstration team, is kinda evaluated in that social setting.
Match:Yeah. And then at the very end, we sat down with, Maurice, and, the boss at the time who was a
Bryan:Was it Mutt?
Match:Yeah, Wayne Mutt and, yeah, they gave us all slots and then and it was a large that's a large number of candidates to go through because if you think about the single digits or one through nine, basically half the team was updating, and we had a new boss that year. We had a Pako, in his first year as boss just coming off the Hornet demo. So five new people on the team for the 2014 season. So that's a that's a large training bill, we call it Yeah. That we now have to work through the the winter season to to get everybody up to speed before comox.
Bryan:Something I have a question about. You mentioned like a really specific set of wording. If somebody is out of position information and you have to use like efficient specific queuing that's different from normal? Like, what's an example of that? Like, let's say you're I don't know.
Bryan:You're low and a little too spaced out. Like, what would the wording be?
Match:Yeah. So low would be deep. Spaced out would be depending on if you're laterally spaced out, which would be wide or longitudinally spaced out, which would be stretched. So we really break it down into the three axes. But to take it a step back, basically, everyone in the formation has an error box they could stay within.
Match:And even within your error box, you would still be talking about errors that you had from the ideal. Because we always wanna see going from the front, including myself, you know, what's the impact of my error on people behind me, people beside me, and, you know, was their error in contribution to mine, or was it their own error? And we kinda have to ripple that down the formation so that by the time we get to the end, people know or have an idea that, hey, the back end stretch, but they stretch because I ran a high power setting the whole time, and they were never gonna stay in. So these kinds of things give the feedback both ways so that now you know, okay. I was too active on the controls up front, and now that affects everybody, so I need to smooth out my inputs, when I'm up front as, like, an inner or or one of the lower single digits.
Match:But to go back to that airbox, so everybody has about a two foot by two foot by two foot airbox. I think and Maurice was describing this, the other day as well. And, within that, you know, you're still talking about your errors, but, you don't really need to say anything on the radio. But once you exceed those, dimensions, now you have to start talking on the radio about it because you're basically out of your position enough that you can start affecting somebody. And this really blew people's minds when back when we did do media rides, my first and second year as a as a six.
Match:So I'd be flying out of right wing, and, typically, the natural position would be behind two. So two is echelon right on the boss, and then I would be behind and underneath two, in the standard big diamond position and obviously below them as well, below their jet wash. And beside me to my left would be number four who would be in line of stern on the boss on number one. And then what would always blow people's minds when they came for a ride is I'm rarely looking at four beside me. I'm never looking at two.
Match:I'm only looking at generally only looking at the boss and certain references on the boss's smoke tanks to find my position. And it kinda makes sense when you think about, hey. If you wanna be the most stable in a formation, you gotta look at the most stable player. If you start looking at the person right beside you who who's also reacting to movements and maybe having a bad day themselves, then you are just gonna compound that error, and you're gonna be much more out of position typically. And it was amazing for others to see they would be, focused intently on this tailpipe that's in front of us and above us, probably, like, closest metal, the closest canopy, probably six to eight feet.
Match:Wow. And we're talking about, like, straight up from my from my not my canopy, really, my nose to to the next airplane, the way the nose dips and everything. But that tailpipe would be bouncing around, and they would look over at my head, and it's like I was just, like, looking sideways. It's like, are you not look are you not looking directly above you at what's going on? Be like, no.
Match:I'm not. Because if I start looking at that, I'm gonna be all over the place.
Bryan:Yeah.
Match:And, and it's only gonna be worse. So I have full trust in that position in that Snowbird two that they're gonna say something on the radio when they're outside that two foot by two foot by two foot airbox. They're gonna basically come on the radio and say, two shadow. And that means that, hey. They're out of that position.
Match:Now I have to default my cross check between what might have been, like, 80% on the boss's tanks, 20% on number four beside me to my left to now looking a bit more at number two and seeing if I need to honor their errors and maybe slide out a position a bit, or maybe we have to widen the formation a bit because they're having a bad day or it's really turbulent, environmental conditions. Wow. And so other than that, if I don't hear that two shadow call, I'm just trusting they are doing their best to be in position, and that's kind of the the trust. I know that Thunderbirds call it blind trust, and that's essentially what it is that unless we're hearing something different, we are we trust each other that we're all striving for that ideal. Yeah.
Match:So the air so when you're outside of that airbox, if you're high in that airbox, like physically high, then we call that thin. If you're low in that airbox, like I alluded to earlier, then that's deep. If you're wider than you intend to be, like we're talking laterally, then that's wide. If you're tighter, then you're tight. And if you're falling behind, lean a fore aft sense, then you're stretched.
Match:And if you're falling forward or say you were late with the power back and now you ran ahead, then we call that run ahead. And there's some other errors as well because we know, you when you're coming over top of a roll or something, we try to get the lights all on the crowd. The last thing you wanna see is all the wings in different positions like bank of bank and everything. So we we strive for that wing match where you picture basically the spar going through the entire formation and everybody being parallel to it. So when you're not when you look kind of like a cereal bowl, we call that, dished.
Match:And when you look the opposite of a cereal bowl, kinda like maybe a frowny face or something like that, then we call that slouched, which is a lot rarer. Usually, it's if I roll the formation fast, everybody's gonna be behind the roll rate, and the and the left side in particular would get that kind of dished effect. And if it's really bad, then sometimes we call it Chicago for, like, a deep and dish air, much like the pizza. But yeah. So lots of there's a whole table in in our standard maneuvers manual of all the verbiage we use for errors, and then there's a lot more for the comms I use.
Match:And, like, I have to be very specific. I can't just make up words every time I wanna add power or something like that. They gotta be very specific so that people can anticipate that and respond accordingly. If you make up words or use plain English too much, then it's it's a free for all. Right?
Match:So that's where some of the discipline comes in for always trying to say the same thing over and over.
Bryan:You mentioned crosscheck. Are you looking at your instruments at all, or are you just moving the throttle based on keeping in position and trusting that lead is keeping you in a safe performance regime essentially?
Match:Yeah. So now that I have kind of two perspectives, I'll talk to the one as a winger in my first four years. So, yeah, as a winger, you are outside of the cockpit looking basically probably 95 to 98% of the time. Maybe you'll cross check. Like, the times you put your head in the cockpit is usually, to check your fuel
Bryan:Okay.
Match:For example. Or if, yeah, that's really the only thing I can think of unless, you know, you hear something funny and you your eyes go immediately to your RPM and EGT as a single engine pilot.
Bryan:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Match:But, yeah, typically, it's always outside. And the other thing a lot of people don't, realize is that inner big diamond formation, kinda hard for a podcast, but if you picture the nine ship big diamond, as I'm sure most people are somewhat familiar with, down the middle, the seats can alternate. And what I mean by that is you can have a boss like me that's a left seat boss and flies from the left seat. Last year, Brent Handy flew from the right seat. And then basically four and five are the two line of stern positions, stem cats, we call them.
Match:They're behind me, and they basically alternate. So one is one of them is a left seater, one of them is a right seater. And that's just so they can go out to either echelon side to make it symmetrical. And then everybody on the right side of the formation, when you're looking kinda top down view of the big diamond, is a left seat pilot, and then everybody on the left side of the formation is a right seat pilot. So you basically see sit closest to the stem, to the middle, because just the just the extra three feet of parallax in a side by side cockpit arrangement that we have in the Tudor makes a difference.
Match:The canopy bow ends up visually a little larger from, that far away or blocking more. There's a little more parallax in the bottom of the windscreen. That's a little harder fly formation to be accurate that way. So you always sit closest to the middle that way.
Bryan:Wow. There's so many factors. That's crazy. I I actually had no idea that you were flying on different sides of the cockpit depending on what side of the formation you're on. That's that's very interesting.
Match:Yeah. So typically, the headrest the headrest, we give it away. So the the headrest for the pilots are red and the ones for the technicians are blue.
Bryan:Okay.
Match:So once in a while, they'll swap or they'll be like, we'll do a jet swap and and it won't be the case, But typically, that's how they try to match them up as well.
Bryan:Okay. So you were coming from your operational Hornet background. What was harder than you expected when you went into the team? Like, I'm was there a bit of like, okay, I've got jet experience. I've got some formation experience.
Bryan:Like, this should be not too bad, or was it harder than you expected, or how did that go?
Match:Yeah. I mean, the old adage is that, you know, guys and gals from the fighter community will maybe show up to us and over us with a little higher SA bucket, situational awareness from other kind of large force exercise work and everything. But to be honest, it was a totally different environment. You never fly this close anywhere else, so that's new. You never have multiple aircraft around you that close, and you're only looking at certain aspects of one airplane, maybe a second airplane occasionally.
Match:So it was it was really looking down a soda straw in the first few months and then slowly widening that out to maybe like a funnel. And then eventually, by the end of your first year, you've got better awareness of what's happening all around you, in the back where you have a better view of things. So it was challenging to kind of keep up with that and always being on your game, like, in terms of, hey. I can only make errors so big before I I need to leave the formation Mhmm. Or start impacting affecting somebody drastically.
Match:Right? So always being striving to be accurate. And I know we talk about it a lot in the military precision of, flying in all sorts of aspects, and, you know, that's what I used to give tips for for aircrew selection. You know? They'd rather see you struggling but trying to get your to your downwind height in that old simulator than being, you know, a 100 feet off and happy.
Match:But, really, it is kinda a mix of both in this case. It'd be like, yeah. You need to always strive for the ideal. And when you're even slightly outside of it, then you need to continue striving and working towards getting back to that ideal because other people are counting on it as much as you're trying to just perform for for your own sake and, and your precision.
Bryan:Mhmm. So during your first tour, something you've spoken publicly about is a mid air collision during your second season. Can you take us back to that day?
Match:Yeah. It's actually I remember it well. It was, 04/30/2015. We just came off a highly successful, Comox debt, and that was, lots of great weather flying. We got a ton of trips in down there.
Match:The team and the show was coming together quite well and basically done. We had done the acceptance, I believe, already and, and I was riding a high, like a wave of just great flying and the tank cam got reincarnated then, so we had a bunch of footage online that everybody was sharing and loving still in kind of early social media days and everything. Well, not too early, but earlier than now. And so that was getting a lot of attention and publicity for the team in the Canadian Armed Forces. And, yeah, so we got back to Moose Jaw after three weeks in Comox, and we were doing a practice, a home opener practice.
Match:So, typically, we do a home home opener for family and friends in Moose Jaw, once we get back there and then leave for our first swing, we call it our first big, portion of the summer season, the summer air show season. So it was a home opener practice down in Mossbank, which is an airfield about 25 miles, south of Moose Jaw that we practice at, an old, British Commonwealth Air Training Plan triangle field that no longer is paved or anything, but, it's it's good for us to practice that, and it's restricted airspace for anybody else. So we were down there. I had a passenger with me at the time. Actually, I had, Dan Dempsey who was an ex Snowbird eight and Snowbird one as well with me.
Match:And we were just going through the high show like we did every Monday to Friday in Comox or Monday through Saturday. And over one of the early loops in the opener, there may or may not have been a weird formation twist, and I basically caught myself out of position enough on the over the top portion of that loop that five and I made contact. So me being a Snowbird six, I was on the right side of the of the diamond and then kind of behind the number two position. So if you think about the stem having three airplanes in line of stir, I was basically echelon right off the middle one, which is number four. And then behind me to my left and below me would be Snowbird five.
Match:And for those that don't know the Tudor quite so well, the pitot tube is a large kind of extending three foot extension off the right wing tip. Back in the day in the sixties, I guess they struggled with some pitot statics, and a lot of airplanes had much longer pitot tubes than they do now to make it work. And, so what happened is over top of this loop, we had some twisting and I was deep in my position. Often for the outers, we don't really use the word shadow because it doesn't affect too many other people in the background. So sometimes we're just always striving for that ideal, and I got caught up in, my position ended up deep from kind of that previous, discussion about terminology that we had, and I was deep and at the same time where five's position was because four and five will typically cheat sometimes and run ahead so that they can stay in for the loop.
Match:The tutor is fairly underpowered when you think about density altitude considerations and and summertime show seasons, and temperature effects on, on jet performance. And so when they're running ahead, they're actually a little farther forward than they normally are. And so my depth there basically put my left aileron into five speedo tube. Oh, wow. And flying it, it honestly just felt like the passenger, bumped the stick.
Match:So there's a bit of a kind of stick burble. I'm like, is that you? They said no. I'm like, okay. And we continued.
Match:And then we did I think we finished the opener in that sequence with a maple split, and then seven, five, and six were rejoining for an echelon review, like a banana pass basically from right to left. And during that rejoin, I join up on five swing, and I notice I look over at the pitot tube, it's like, oh, man. Their pitot tube is, like, 30 degrees below the aircraft, like, fuselage line, and it's, like, bent down. And then so it's immediately, like, a knock it off call. I think I ended up making that call initially.
Match:And then describing the problem, like, boss has to coordinate where everybody goes because now you have the solos off and probably split ready to make a cross. You have a package of airplanes somewhere. You have seven five six behind the crowd setting up for their banana pass. So now it's like a bunch of quiet and coordination to make sure deconfliction happens, and we kinda keep the show box in front of the crowd empty and and coordinate what's happening from there. And then if I recall correctly, a bunch three of us ended up going home, five and six, obviously, with damage to five spital tube, and my aileron got punctured.
Match:And then I think they sent another jet that would do I think seven came along and did a bowel damage check for both of both of us. That's basically where like, the damage on five was obvious. There was surprisingly no real objectionable airspeed differences from being bent down 30 degrees.
Bryan:Oh,
Match:wow. I mean, on a good day, the Tudor Pitot tube bounces plus minus probably five, ten degrees in turbulent conditions anyways and still reads correctly enough. So not surprising there, I guess. Good old Canadian engineer. But, for myself, yeah, I kinda had two small punctures in my, in my in neuron, on the underside and did a bit of a controllability check on my way back and then basically just flew along or joined for, straight into land in Moose Jaw.
Match:And then, yeah, I remember talking to some school guys afterwards, and they saw, yeah, a jet taxi by with a bent down pitot tube and everything, and I think there might have been a two bell on base for that. And we came back. We got checked out at MIR for the kind of at the hospital on base for the kind of standard blood work and everything to go along with the aircraft incident. And then we debriefed for lengthy debrief for what I remember, afterwards, talking about the errors, what could have happened there. And then afterwards, we had a bit of a hot wash at one of the one of the coordinators houses on at the queues on base, PM queues.
Match:And, I remember it being a great example of, hey. You've gotta get back on the horse. Otherwise, you're unlikely to get back on the horse again. And so we flew we threw up an extra practice nine shift the morning before the home opener, which was literally the next day. And then we went to the home opener and went about it again.
Match:Obviously, with some other concerns and, like, operational risk management and considerations like that, I think I ended up flying with one of the senior pilots, in standards the next morning as well, prior to the home opener. I can't remember. But, yeah, it was it was a classic example of having enough trust that, okay, when we do make mistakes that, yes, we realize that, we realize what the mistake is, and, and we try to correct it and get back on the on the, on the proverbial horse before, you know, other thoughts set in and and it makes it that much harder.
Bryan:Yeah. You mentioned hot wash. That is basically like a a get together where you, you know, have a have a beer, have a coffee, whatever, and just talk through what happened. Right?
Match:Yeah. Exactly. And, that was essentially it. We just kinda talked about it, talked about the season, how Comox was going. And if anything, like, I worried about the a degrade in trust that the rest of the team had in me Mhmm.
Match:Because I had messed up. And it was a good example as well of, you know, always having to have that combat edge or or that kinda flying edge so that you were, on top of your game? Because we just came off a great comox debt, and now, you know, now we have this. And so was I getting complacent? Was it, you know, getting too easy type thing?
Match:It was my second year as a as a Snowbird six. Mhmm. I was teaching a a new younger, Snowbird seven as my kinda training partner, junior training partner, and everything was going well. So did I just find myself in, like, a complacency layer of Swiss cheese. Right?
Match:Yeah. And I don't know. Like, I can't recall specifically to this day, like, the actual errors aside from looking on tape for them.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Match:So I don't think that was the case. I don't think I was distracted too much by the, you know, Snowbirds royalty, we'll call it, but, Dan Dempsey with his history to Snowbirds' time and, you know, the author of basically the Earth Show book that a lot of us have on our shelves and everything. I don't think any of that was a real big factor. I honestly think I was just was not as sharp as I needed to be in that moment. And if anything, it highlights, you know, the close margins we deal with and the trust we need in in each other when when we're not performing to that level.
Match:And I've kinda used that as an example as well in, like, the talks I give to cadets and pilots about, you know, compartmentalizing just like the missed bomb earlier, over Libya. Same thing here. Right? We still have to get the airplanes home and on deck safely even after, okay, I have punctured ailerons. So now what?
Match:And I remember that feeling of, okay, yeah, controllability check. Good. Let's just set up for a basic straight and keep it simple and get on the ground.
Bryan:Yeah. That sounds like it'd be kinda tough to come back from. And you mentioned that you were kinda worried about loss of trust once you folks went through this hot wash process and got flying again. Did you run into any of that or was it like, okay, we're good. We think we understand why this happened and we're gonna move forward.
Match:Yeah. I think it was more in my head than anything. We had a solid team that year. Mean, I all my teams have been, solid, and it really is a bunch of high performers and people that trust in the process and are brutally honest with each other. And it has to be that way.
Match:You can't be kinda hiding stuff behind the scenes or not being brutally honest with each other because then that's only gonna take even greater issue airborne when, when you know you're starting to hide mistakes or something like that. So the culture itself, I think, helps move you along when something like this were to happen because of our brutal honesty or open debriefing and just calling everybody out regardless of, you know, what your rank is, that has no play in it. Like, if people see me as a boss making a mistake and I don't debrief to it, then somebody else is gonna point it out. That's the last thing I want because that means that I missed it. So Yeah.
Match:Yeah. That's a very Snowbirds esque way of doing business in our culture and other jet teams, I imagine.
Bryan:Yeah. So you ended up in that first tour doing an extended tour on the Snowbirds, of four years versus the usual two. Once you got to the end, looking back on your first Snowbirds tour, what do you think that you learned that stayed with you that you use today as Snowbird one?
Match:I think in essence, it's just absorbing the entire Snowbirds culture. I mean, it was it was sad leaving the team. I was going up to instruct at four nineteen and our fighter lead in training squadron up there in Cold Lake again afterwards and, it was yeah, it was kind of bittersweet. I was really proud of my time, my four years, I'd done a lot of outreach. I moved around a lot as a kid, both coming to Canada and then, moving around the GTA around Toronto a lot.
Match:So I managed to hit up all the schools I went to three year for them with, like, public speaking engagements, talked with my old air cadet squadron, many other places, and that outrage a bit I was quite proud of. And the flying, of course, was second to none. It's it's the best flying I will have ever done. And so I was really proud of that. It was sad to it was sad to go, but it's also one of those things that it's time to you know when it's kinda time to move on.
Match:Yeah. And you don't wanna be there too long because that same risk of complacency could pop up if you're not, if you're not mitigating and and kinda try and to trap that threat in subsequent years. Yeah. So I had seen a lot of North America, and it was it was go, go, go. So it was a busy time, four summers away from my family, my wife, and young daughter.
Match:So that was hard on the family. So it was nice to have some more home time once I got to Coal Lake. Yeah. Yeah. But I was proud of it as a whole and really what we were doing kinda demonstrating to the Canadian population and to Americans as well, the Canadian Armed Forces and being a visible sign of that throughout the, air show industry.
Bryan:So, you know, as we mentioned in our previous chat, in between that tour and this tour, you went to test pilot school and worked with AT, which gave you that time, especially test pilot school with your family. You'd been through four years on the Snowbirds. It's pretty demanding on both you and your family. After all that, what made you wanna come back?
Match:At first, I didn't want to. I wrapped up my original four year tenure with the nice home closer in 2017, put a bow on it. I didn't I don't even think I wanted to fly anymore, like, maintenance test flights after that. I did maybe one compass swing, but I was like, okay. Thank you, tutor.
Match:That was a blast. So I'm off kind of thing. And, yeah. And then finishing that chapter, that era for the Taylor Swift fans. And then, yeah, afterwards, I thought I thought after several years of test flying, I was kinda missing the public side of it again.
Match:And I mean, the flying, yes, for sure, but the outreach bit bit, the sharing the perspective, I mean, for those that know me know I'm a big kind of video and a little less so photo guy. So just sharing that with as many people is something I was missing. A lot of times on projects I was working on, there wasn't really an ability to capture video or, or brag about what we were doing, whereas the whole essence of the Snowbirds is public outreach and demonstration. Right? It's right there in the squadron title.
Match:And so I was missing that a lot. I was missing talking to cadets. And I tried to do a few engagements like that while I was at AT in the local Ottawa area and everything, but it it's definitely not to the level that you get on the team. So it's missing that. And so with my family support, I applied for the boss position.
Match:I actually applied twice. So I applied in 2022 for what would have been Brent Handy's seasons, 2024 and 2025. And then, unfortunately, despite my application getting to Moose Jaw, it became a bit awkward because AT leadership at the time did not support it. And so the application went in, but it wasn't actually supported at the time. So it led to this kinda led getting let down twice, getting let down by my AT leadership and then getting let down, when I had to break the news to four three one leadership that actually I don't know why they sent it in because it's not really supported.
Match:Oh. So that that was a little weird, to put it lightly, I guess.
Bryan:Yeah. A bit awkward.
Match:Yeah. Awkward and disappointing as well. I guess you're kinda sometimes a product of your own success, and we don't really have many qualified test pilots on the Hornet in Canada. And at the time, I was the only one, and we were just starting up the Hornet extension, project, which was is the largest Hornet test project in a generation, I'd say, at least, with new radar, new missiles, new software, and everything. And and so it it made sense to me that it wasn't supported.
Match:It was just kind of a weird way how that played out. But yeah. So then I just thought, hey. I'm just gonna stay at AT, finish my time, my twenty five years, and then switch over to, like, black suit, AT public servant, basically, or blue flight suit, I guess they wear. And then talking with my wife a bit, she was supportive of me trying again, and I thought, hey.
Match:Maybe, you know, maybe I'll I'll give it one more go. And, so I applied again. Luckily, they took me the second time around, and I had enough time. I had four and a half years at AT, so it was around the posting time anyways. So it just managed to all work out after that.
Match:And then, yeah, I found out January 2025 then continued on doing some tutor testing and everything, at AT and some hornet testing and then kind of and then ended up moving last summer in 2025 back to Moose Jaw.
Bryan:What did it mean to you to return as Snowbird one?
Match:It was humbling to be chosen. I know it's a very unique position and, comes with very large responsibilities, obviously, to the team that's flying around you, to the maintainers that fly with you from show to show, and look for your leadership on the road to the squadron to the airshow industry. So there's lots of kind of responsibilities to many people and demands kinda consistent follow through, I'd say. It's also very unique. I I I mean, I joke that I'm probably the worst formation pilot on the team and, in flight zero formation typically.
Match:And, you know, if I don't see anybody in front of me, that's usually a good day. So I I just go between bouts of blue sky and bouts of, ground approaching and occasionally see airplanes in my mirrors. But, yeah, it's definitely humbling. I mean, it's not very many people that get to fly around all of Canada or as much of Canada as we can logistically get to dragging around, you know, eight really great friends and two great, coordinators and then a whole slew of great technicians from all sorts of trades in the Canadian Armed Forces to various show sites that will pop into and let our standard operating procedures take over on how we set up shop, how we brief, how we get through a demonstration at that location, maybe have a day off afterwards after a weekend to do laundry or whatnot and, and then pick up that whole entourage and move it to the next location. So it's really it's really humbling to kinda have the opportunity, I'd say, and I'm honored.
Bryan:How different does it feel to be the boss versus being one of the pilots? Like, does that feel obviously, like, the the job is quite different. But, like, in terms of the team and and interacting with them, does it feel different?
Match:Yeah. For sure. I mean, there's a slight rank gradient. Typically, there, there's only one other major on the team this season, number two, but that's usually not a factor in the Snowbirds culture at all and if it is, then it should have been flagged before you even got there really because that has a high potential for not being consistent with their culture Yeah. In terms of debriefing and brutal honesty and everything.
Bryan:For sure.
Match:Honest in in each other. But, yeah. So aside from joking about, you know, mostly seeing ground people, runway sky views, and and no airplanes in front of me. I do occasionally get to see a cool airplane in front of me. I mean, I saw the Blue Angels a few weeks back in Chesterfield all in front of me, and, I was afraid of their big jet wash and their new, Super Hornets.
Match:We flew behind a b 25 the other day over Niagara Falls and into Oh, cool. Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum. So occasionally, I'll fly some challenging formation, but the the bigger thing is the larger team dynamics and having to be from the flying perspective, having to be smooth, stable, and predictable all the time. Everybody's looking at me. Everybody's listening to my comms.
Match:So being as predictable as I can with the show tracks and everything I'm doing, is very challenging, when you consider the wing loading of the tutor and the basically solid wing structure that we have. It does not handle disturbance well. So anything that hits the wing tip
Bryan:So you get bounced around a lot?
Match:Exactly. Anything that hits the wing tip translates straight to the fuselage and bumps the whole airplane around. So everybody kinda has this jostling move in turbulent conditions and usually take the law of averages. Everybody's moving about the same amount, and we kinda all stay in position. Wow.
Match:Whereas you you take a look at the blue angels or the Thunderbirds and their flexible wing structure and everything dampens out a lot of that. So so on the bumpy days, it's even more challenging. We have to kinda hold down nose nose hold the nose down trim to kinda get into a a linear portion of the stick force gradient so that we take out some of the dead band like you'd have on a joystick on video games. You know, there's a little bit of a zone around the center.
Bryan:Like a dead zone?
Match:Yeah. A dead zone that doesn't do anything. So you kinda have to get the stick out of that typically by forcing some nose down trim so everybody's carrying a certain amount of trim Okay. To be stable.
Bryan:So you're maintaining back pressure throughout basically?
Match:Yeah. Exactly.
Bryan:To get it out of that dead zone?
Match:Yeah. Yeah. We nose we trim nose down and then you hold the stick back, so it basically feels like anywhere between a five and maybe a 20 pound weight for some of the some of the players in different, positions at different points during the show. But Wow. You're you're kinda so so it's physically demanding, especially up front where I'm looking for the show line and everything, I'm kinda looking over shoulder or leaning forward.
Match:So it's probably a chiropractic nightmare. Way I kind of move in the airplane but, so the the physical part is challenging.
Bryan:Is it pretty tough on the body?
Match:I find the tutor comfortable, surprisingly. I kind of just cinch the parachute down, strap in and and like a little turtle in there kinda thing. But it's it's definitely hard. If you're like, I get to look around left, right freely. If you're always on the right side looking left, of course, you're gonna have some kind of left neck looking type strains if you don't stretch that out.
Match:So it's challenging in different spots to different degrees, I would say. And, obviously, the solos typically pull the most g's and are looking over the shoulders to see each other and everything, so that's definitely challenging as the g comes on and everything. But then the larger team dynamics of just having to, yeah, pick up and move this whole detachment around from show site to show site, having to be responsible for people and, you know, not everybody has a great day every day. Right? So taking trying to take stock of your people and their morale and their well-being, on the road is definitely challenging.
Match:And then all the other hiccups that come up, like the other day yesterday, we, had to delay a transit to get to this, new show site because of some paperwork issues that were found. And so that held us back a day for the bulk of the airplanes, and so now we're tight on timelines to get to a show here in, Saint George, Quebec and have to do two transits on our way to get there. We ended up making it work in the end, but all these kind of things that, you know, the unknown unknowns that you have to deal with and you just need to kinda have a level head and anticipate the next problem call or be ready to kinda react to it. And I think if you're just if yeah. Trying to keep a level head about yourself is is probably one of the largest skill sets you need because things are gonna surprise you from left field and right field all the time.
Bryan:Yeah. I can tell you're used to contingencies and unexpected events and stuff because as we've been scheduling, it's always like with the understanding that, okay, hey, you know, I'm gonna talk to you Thursday at two unless something happens. Yeah. And then we will figure something out.
Match:Exactly. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. So we've talked a lot about the selection process for team members. You mentioned applying to be Snowbird one. How does Snowbird one get selected and when in the kind of cycle of teams and seasons does that happen?
Match:Good question. So the call for candidates, it's usually tied with the overall call for candidates for team positions and then just has some extra stipulations for what Snowbird one needs rank and previous time on the team and whatnot. And for that, I think they usually come out in the fall via, like, Can Air Gen or something like that, like a message to the air force, for names. And then for Snowbird one, there's no real flying tryout at this point because you will have you would have, by requirement, done time on the team already. And what was so you needed, like, an application letter or recommendation from the CO.
Match:And then I don't know if in years past there were interviews or not. I never got interviewed. It's such a small air force that you kinda know everybody already.
Bryan:Yeah. And you've already been part of the organization.
Match:Exactly. And the requirements alone, like, there's only so many people that, a, haven't retired, have flown the tutor, have been a Snowbird previously. Like, that list is pretty short in terms of who can next lead the team kind of thing. So
Bryan:Yeah.
Match:Yeah. So I applied and then the second time around got selected and, yeah.
Bryan:Is that a two year stint for the boss as well?
Match:It typically is. Yeah. Yeah. Now occasionally, things change or or, personnel issues come up and people are called on to stay a third year or as boss, it's typically two. I could think of maybe one that stayed a bit longer, but, yeah, typically a two year tour and then and then you move on.
Bryan:If you had to say, let's say, like, your top three qualities that make someone successful on the team, what do you think those would be?
Match:Teamwork for sure, open communication, and just always striving to put your best effort forward. So even on the bad days, like, you're gonna have long days. And that's not even on the flying side. Like, we can be doing a a high show. And another case in point, you know, we could be doing a high show.
Match:You could have been behind the the package transiting that day, so or the day before, so you now had to do a transit and then a high show afterwards. And, oh, by the way, we still have an autograph session after. Right? And, you know, for you, it maybe is just another transit and high show and autographs, but for everybody else going to that show, it's maybe the only air show they see that year. Yeah.
Match:Or for the organizers, it's been a year's worth of effort, sometimes more, to put that show on. Yeah. So still having your best foot forward, even in something as simple as autographs and how you interact with the public is definitely a a top skill set. Because the last thing they wanna do is, you know, go up to a fence at somebody they admire, And maybe not you personally, but the concept of you, the concept of you as a technician or pilot on the team making this happen, putting jets in the air safely or flying them safely once they're there. Like, that concept to now have some kid meet some disgruntled person that's just tired and not all there is, like, the last thing.
Match:Yeah. You wanna kinda percent as the image. Right? So so having that endurance, that stamina to be able to power through and and and still stay positive. And I'm a pretty positive happy attitude guy like I have been most of my life.
Match:So the exception of the, I guess, rejection for Pilot originally. But yeah. So that comes somewhat naturally for me, but, that's definitely a key quality.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny because it's easy to forget, like, as a pilot, as a former Air Force pilot, you know, we move in this world of pilots, and you tend to have friends on the team at various points in your life. And you start to almost forget, like, hey. You know, for a lot of people who are air show and aviation enthusiasts, meeting a snowbird is a huge deal.
Bryan:Like, that's a big moment for them, especially like if it's their first time or, you know, whatever. Like, there's so many different people having like a special moment at that time when they get to come up and get signatures and talk for a moment or whatever it is. Like, that's very special to them. You know, we talked about this a bit with Marie's that it's it must be quite challenging that, you know, everywhere you go, you gotta be on. It's gotta be like every show is special to you because, like, it needs to feel that way to these other people because, like, nobody wants, as you said, to go through all the work to organize an air show or drive two hours to get to an air show or wait in line for an hour to meet a snowbird, and then they get there and the person seems exhausted or disinterested or whatever.
Bryan:Right? Like, that's that's gotta be tough.
Match:Yeah. And to the contrary though as well, like, I mean, I came off of five years of writing down data on cards and pushing buttons and software testing and, you know, testing or doing out of control spin stuff in the Hornet and all that kind of fun stuff, but this is a totally different aspect to the to the job as a snowbird and as well kinda putting yourself in the shoes of younger you. What I what I mean by that is like, okay. So a younger Match was in the Hamilton show and got to go to the autographs. Like, what interaction would he want to have with the people that he was seeing?
Match:And so if I kinda picture that, then I kinda put myself in the mindset of, okay. Yeah. This is, the positivity we need and the openness and just chatting with people. I mean, I love chatting with Canadians. Like, were doing some we were doing a Millbrook Fair fly past on the way to Barrie, a bit out of the way, but from North Bay to Barrie, and we're running in.
Match:We already had a problem call to had to return to Barrie earlier for some air conditioning, issue. And so we're just down a jet. We're dealing with the problems. I'm talking with Toronto Center about getting VFR to this fly pass and everything. And then literally, we roll up to this fly pass Southwest of, Peterborough, the Hundred And 75th Anniversary Millbrook Fair, by the way.
Match:So even older even older than the country. And all I see is, like, this Ferris wheel and a relatively small crowd. Think thunderstorms just rolled through, so people were just getting back and setting up. But, you see this small little Ferris wheel going around and around, and you're just buzzing over top of it at 300 feet. Sorry.
Match:500 feet because it wasn't a show. It was a fly past. And you do a turn and come back through another direction. And then, you know, you look online, you check on Instagram, and there's photos that, you know, moms and dads posted of their little kid wearing a Snowbirds hat or something and just waving at you. And, like, it's hard to see.
Match:I I do see people from the front view. It's hard to obviously pick out individual people unless we're, like, short final landing, and sometimes they'll wave at people. But, yeah. So it's hard to individually pick out people from 500 feet away, but I know they're down there. I could see the cars.
Match:I can see the the groups of people. Yeah. And it's just warming to see the image from the ground the other way about, hey, them waving back at you or somebody was happy that that you got there in the end and, and wave wave the flag.
Bryan:Yeah. One time in Nova Scotia, actually, on the Aurora, I went down to Digby. I went down to Digby and they had us do a couple flybys over the Blue Nose and a couple other tall ships. And it was one of the coolest experiences I ever had. Like, it was super fun, you know, just doing a big fly pass and then swooping up and turning around and doing another.
Bryan:We just did a we did I can't remember however many we were approved for and at the lowest altitude they approved us at. Like, it's been a while. But, you know and then the really neat moment though was, as you said, seeing photos of it online and being like, oh, wow. Like, this was a cool moment for people. Like, that's that's pretty neat.
Match:Yeah. Absolutely.
Bryan:Yeah. Something that we have talked about a couple times here on and off is the support personnel. How important are all your support personnel in making the season happen?
Match:I mean, often they're labeled support personnel, and some really are from some support trades, but particularly the back of the home unit kinda making the behind the scenes parts work. But, here on the road, like in the detachment, there really are no support personnel. Everybody on the team is essential. Sure. If we don't have a pilot available, they don't fly.
Match:If I get sick, the team doesn't fly because there's no backup boss. So to some degree, yeah, of course, the pilots are essential, but everybody is essential from the final product being seen by the crowd perspective. So and what I mean by that is, like, if we don't have our aircraft structures technicians to fix or maintain our aviation life support equipment, our masks if they get clogged up or something like that, or our helmets having a hotspot and bothering the pilot, then we impact the show, and possibly that person doesn't fly. If we don't have our aviation systems technicians to do an engine change on the road because of a leak discovered earlier that day and now that that airplane's needed for the next day, like they did the other day in Columbus, Ohio, we impact flying. We impact the show that airplane's not ready, and those technicians are are pulled aside for that.
Match:If we don't have our avionics systems technicians to troubleshoot a pitot static snag or something, then we impact flying in the show. So you can kinda get the drift of, you know, how essential all these trades are. If our supply and traffic technicians aren't there to find parts or, on the support truck, then we end up wasting time looking digging through the truck trying to find these things. Right? If we don't have our MSC op to drive the truck from show site to show site across Canada and North America, then we don't have the parts we need to maintain the airplane.
Bryan:So Oh, yeah. There's trucks following you all around North America.
Match:Yeah. We have a large tractor trailer with the big kinda wrap Snowbirds wrap around it that has all our parts.
Bryan:Cool.
Match:It's kind of our, like, deployed operating trailer when we're there. The computers, there's a gator in it. The sign out computers are in it. All sorts of spare parts and everything, the boxes of brochures, everything. So if we don't have that, then, you know, we're limited to what we can carry on the airplane in terms of, okay, a small tow bar, some cans of oil, minimal replacement parts, that kind of thing.
Match:So you can quickly see how integral each job is in the larger operation. And, of course, our public affairs officer. Yeah. Everybody has a job, and it also showcases how important those trades are in the larger Canadian Armed Forces. Because now with all those people from public affairs officer to all the maintainers to the pilots can now talk about the trades and their kinda relationship in the greater CAF to other people, especially people they meet along the, you know, fence line at autographs or throughout their day.
Match:Like, we travel from show to show in flight suits. So it's pretty obvious when we roll up into a Starbucks or something dressed in blue and red, people are gonna start asking questions. Right? Yeah. So the the more we can showcase that and people talking proudly about their trades and their professions in the armed forces, the the better.
Match:Four three one air demonstration squadron. Right? The purpose of demonstrating, I mean, getting the word out there about the CAF, like, the outreach bit. Like, that is all public affairs. Mhmm.
Match:Everyone has a public affairs role, and so we gotta get wrangled in frequently by the public affairs officer and, like, you know, mentored on how best to approach situations, how best to get the message out there, bring everybody up to a good level of kinda communication.
Bryan:Your public affairs officer right now is Phil. And, thanks to Phil, we're able to talk today. And you're probably grateful for, you know, he, I assume, does some filtering, and you don't have to do every single podcast or interview that reaches out.
Match:We do try to share the wealth. And, of course, on the air crew side, we have crew rest to worry about and Yeah. And duty day and everything. So it's often tough, to get, you know, a 6AM media spot from a pilot when we have to fly in a twilight show later that day at 6PM. So, yeah, everybody working together, and that's kind of my philosophy on the team as well.
Match:Like, the last thing anybody likes is a slacker. So if you can put the work in and you're recognized as a person who puts the work in in your specific role and sometimes helping others when they need the help, then that's kinda where the team jives and really becomes a cohesive detachment.
Bryan:Yeah. So let's talk about this season. This is the fifty fifth anniversary season. What makes this year special?
Match:So funny enough, it's and this was pointed out by Dan Dempsey back in ICAST in the annual kind of air show convention in Las Vegas is July 11, we have a show in Moose Jaw at the municipal airport there, sold out show, and it's on July 11. And that's literally fifty five years to the day of the Moose Jaw homecoming air show. Can't remember what it was called. CFB Moose Jaw homecoming air show, I think, on 07/11/1971. So fifty five years later to the day
Bryan:That's so cool.
Match:Yeah. I designed all the brochure, poster products this year, and I made sure to kinda transfer a portion of that. So the speedbirds, the blue fading to white speedbirds that were on that brochure, we copied them over, and they're on the front face of this year's brochure as a a reach back to to all that time away. And it really is like a long noteworthy history of an air demonstration team Mhmm. Even before, you know, the announcements of late were made.
Match:You know, typically, we celebrate five year anniversaries on the Snowbirds. So the fiftieth would have been the last one, I mean, marred a bit by COVID and, the timelines there, and then the forty fifth and whatnot. So there's there's a large wall on one of the hangars back home that has, like, the icons with the logos of each anniversary year. So, yeah, adding another one to that for '55 is definitely a storied history and, an exceptional shout out to to the airplane we've we've been flying all these years because not many teams I can't think of one particular demo team that's been flying for that amount of time with the same airplane. No.
Match:Obviously, people have shifted airplanes and and modernized and everything, we're about to go through that. But that's a long storied history of an airplane that was built here in, La Belle Provence down the road in, Montreal from where I am now.
Bryan:Yeah. You said that the workup training for this season was one of your favorite flying periods. What made it so great?
Match:It was just amazing to always see how the puzzle pieces start to fall into place. So typically in the in the spring winter season, we fly twice a day, Monday to Friday. In years past, it used to be an unwritten magic goal that you would get a 100 training trips in before you left for Comox. That really varies depending on migratory bird season, weather, aircraft availability, and everything. So often you don't quite get there.
Match:We got pretty close this year. I think we got to the low eighties before we headed out the door for Comox, but that it really is amazing to see how it all comes together. So, like, as an analogy, if spring training and that winter training back home moost jazz the outer edges and corners of a puzzle that you're building, Komoks is really where you make headway on the middle bit, the the main picture that you're trying to build, and you start seeing that picture for what it is afterwards. So this is much like deploying our 11 jets on the road during the air show season. We get to practice and fine tune that, including something as simple as like, okay.
Match:How are the checks done in the morning on the airplanes? Okay. Where did the parts go on the truck? Like, all these things kinda come together and blend into a big rehearsal for what the summer looks like. It ends up being long days, which are also a good simulation for life on the road, unexpected snags, you know, multiple flights, occasionally some public outreach in the Comox Valley, and and more.
Match:And then all that's rolled up into three weeks and some 40 odd flights in the logbook. And exponentially, you could see the growth in the show, between the beginning of COMOX and the final product, which usually ends in an acceptance show for the for the air force commanders at the end of the COMOX detachment. But, really, on the other end of the spectrum, it's also the bonding of the team. So not all the technicians are full time technicians. What I mean is that they'll go out for a swing or two during the season, but not the full summer.
Match:And so we usually have a larger contingent of people in Comox than we would during any kinda three or four week stretch during the summer. But the bonding that happens there between all the technicians, the pilots, the show spirit we all walk away with for the remainder of the summer performances all gets solidified there at Comox.
Bryan:What can audiences expect from this season from the team?
Match:Similar exciting large nine ship formations to previous years, some slight adjustments. We as a team are honored to have basically a standard maneuvers manual, our bible, if you will, of of maneuvers we can perform. And then every year, we can sit down and redesign as much of the show as we like. Often, this is closely affected by how many new pilots there are and what we call the training bill, like how hard it is to train the show based off, you know, if we have a whole half of the team that's new, maybe we wouldn't do as many complicated maneuvers. And typically, the boss and the the team's desires.
Match:So this year, I passed around cards for everyone. I think I called it, like, the top twos. So I gave them, hey. Make me a list of all the things you wanna see this year, and we'll do it by collective vote and try to please as many, as many people as possible for, you know, what what we need to challenge them with. I have a lot of fifth year pilots on the team right now as well.
Match:And going back to my bit about my midair and complacency options there, you gotta keep people engaged. Otherwise, as complicated as formation flying is, it's the old adage of, you know, you do something for ten thousand hours or however many repeated cycles, you become a professional at it. Right? So now does your mind wander? Does something else distract you?
Match:Right? So keeping everybody engaged and, and up to their their, highest potential and performance is is key, especially from, like, the team leadership point of view. So, yeah, people filled in things. And then basically being a Test Pilot nerd, I put it in a spreadsheet and kinda calculated out what, what all the preferences were and everything. And yeah.
Match:So we have, things that we're bringing back. Some things from when I was on the team that people always want to try. So we have, card nine, which is probably one of the harder opening sequences that we do, and it's the very first loop that we do in the show. And that's basically like our big diamond. But if you remember the Diamond Shreddies ad where they rotated the Shreddy 45 degrees and then sails went through the roof for some reason.
Match:So our card nine is basically like a nine chip diamond formation, but just everybody's line abreast in three rows instead of like a diamond shape running in. So that's a challenging position to fly because the the stems will fly deeper than normal, so they'll need more power, and they'll be on a wider turn circle initially in the pull of the loop. And then everybody else flying line of breast is just challenging because it's awkward line of breast without triangulation of typical, like, echelon references to know exactly where your position is. So we brought that back. We have a very long formation.
Match:It's actually shuttle is the name of the formation, but then we just renamed it, Artemis this year in honor of colonel Hansen and
Bryan:Oh, very cool.
Match:Yeah. His successful, voyage around the moon there. So that's a very long formation. That's, one, two, three, four, five and a half aircraft long. And so the solos at the very back of the train, are pretty much at the end of the whip for that.
Match:So, you know, again, me telegraphing and smoothly maneuvering and and talking over the radio when when things are happening is only gonna help them be stable and anticipate things. We also brought brought back some cool solo maneuvers. So the mirror rolls back, the kind of top canopy to canopy roll and a variant of the code three sixty crosses that the solos do. And then, obviously, we still have crowd favorites like the heart, the leg back cross where the five airplanes cross, occasionally battle Britain, which funny enough is, like, the easiest thing we fly. It's just literally airplanes in trail of one another by several 100 feet and just carving around the sky.
Match:But from the ground perspective, it looks like a big you know, the skies of London in 1940, what they could have presumably looked like. Right? So and it's a crowd favorite, so we brought that back. Easy to fly. It's a good break for us too, and, and it's fun.
Match:And then we added some special flare to some other things, so we brought back the nine ship Canada Burst, which is kinda like a big flower, big, fleur de lis, if you will, bursting upwards. And then we're doing that to a landing this time. So everybody takes, takes some spacing off me and then comes in for a stream landing afterwards at the show site, which is kinda neat to see.
Bryan:It's kinda the grand finale.
Match:Yeah. Exactly. It's going out with a bang kinda perspective.
Bryan:Yeah. I actually saw I think it was Snowbird eight posted video of them doing the canopy to canopy role, and, it's very impressive. It's it's crazy how close you folks are when you're doing that. It's it's quite something.
Match:Yeah. And so for him, that profile I mean, I'm not a solo, but I know a bit about that profile. For him, it's all negative g that he's pushing through that role, so that his, counterpart, Tom, in the in the nine jet can do all positive g around him and follow around him as he's looking up straight in the sky. So so if you ever see the cockpit footage, if you have somebody with their neck craned out looking straight through the top of the canopy, that's probably Snowbird nine doing the formation flying around Snowbird eight who's if you, again, look in the canopy footage, the remaining bits of his shoulder straps are probably going up as he's pushing kinda minus two or or what he pushes g in a in a half roll type thing.
Bryan:Oh, wow. I can't imagine pushing that much negative g while still, like, remaining with, like, my feet on the pedals and you must be cinched down real tight to the seat.
Match:Yeah. So often we start the show with the shakeout, so we'll pull everybody will separate and we'll pull for for the seven plane, the soles do it slightly differently, but we'll pull plus five and then push to minus two g. So right away, you have a bit of push pull effect there if you're not on top of it. And then typically, for myself anyways, when you don't fly for maybe two weeks, any negative g, you'll see stars. It's like literally a cartoon and you'll see like, some hotspots, just to kind of warn you that, hey, it's been a while type thing.
Match:But yeah. So push pull effect is a real thing. You gotta watch out for positive g transition to negative g. Actually, other way around typically, from a negative to a positive for the total kind of g you have there and and be fighting against potential g lock that way. But as well, the, yeah.
Match:Anything negative is always just weird. I love negative g, but it is weird. Like, so for eight again, like rolling out of that mirror roll at the bottom, like, all he probably sees is ground and then starts pushing or continues pushing his negative g there to start seeing some sky before it rolls upright. But it's very similar in the double take when the boss and four would fly. The the double take is they start upright and end up inverted towards the ground, towards 300 feet, and then pushing out of it.
Match:So, yeah, very unique unique to the Air Force, unique to probably a lot of people, even outside of Canada in terms of a flying mechanics point of view, but very cool.
Bryan:So let's close by talking about the Tutor and the proud legacy that it has with the Snowbirds. What has made the Tutor such an effective demonstration aircraft for so long?
Match:I mean, we kinda saw it in its forty odd years as a trainer in Moose Jaw as well. Right. So it's Canadian designed, overengineered, built a few hours down the road from where I am right now in Cartier Ville, Quebec, by Canadair, by Canadian hands. Like, that's cool. Like, I I will say that line until thoroughly exhausted all summer because because really it's it's it.
Match:Right? Like, especially in in today's day and age, like, celebrating Canadiana and everything is what we want. And, like, what better way than celebrating a Canadian design that has withstood the test of the time and a legacy to be proud of. Like, okay. Yes.
Match:We've announced the retirement of the Tudor, but let's also be take pride, take stock in how long this thing this beautiful aircraft has lasted and how well it's tailored to the role of air demonstration. So, I mean, we have a nice straight wing that can hold g fairly well without bleeding energy. We have a nice t tail to get us out of any kind of buffet or burble from the the main wings. You obviously have a unique paint job, and it's really, like, nine classic jets flying around in tight formations, all over Canada. Like, you've had upgrades that will help you shoot GPS high fire approaches to down to a lower minima that got us into places like Yarmouth, which was, like, one of the foggiest places in Canada.
Match:And our transit day was down to minimums, and there was only, like, RNAV approaches into there. Sure enough, with our new GPS kit that we upgraded in 2016, we managed to save the show by getting in there. So, like, all this technology and reinvention of the aircraft over the years as well has kinda helped that legacy along And, yeah, definitely something Canadians can be proud of. Yeah. And, of course, it's bittersweet to kinda see it go, but, you know, if you look back on the legacy of it, that's kinda what I hope people remember out of it.
Bryan:Yeah. I think, like you said, it's something to be proud of. I think it's also something to be grateful for that this aircraft has served us so well for so long. Like, it's very unique. Like you said, like, what other team has flown the same aircraft for fifty five years?
Bryan:Like, it's been with the Snowbirds since its inception and it's just amazing.
Match:Yeah. Exactly. And it really is like when you strap it on, it feels like an extension of yourself. The handling characteristics for the most part are smooth, you know, it's responsive. It's you don't have to worry about hydraulic flight controls and and flight control software that's, you know, thinking it has your best interest in mind, displacing everything where it needs to go and complications there.
Match:And it's really just like fully reversible controls just like if you grab a Cessna aileron and move it, the yoke's gonna move. Right? Same thing here. So it's very simple. It's like a Cessna with a jet engine, basically.
Bryan:Awesome. Finally, Match, when Canadians watch the Snowbirds this season, what do you hope they take away from it?
Match:I really hope there's a sense of pride in Canada in what we can collectively accomplish and for long periods of time and some linking back with their Canadian Armed Forces. Right? It doesn't have to be that, hey. Your dad or mom was a pilot, and that's your connection to the air force and the Snowbirds and everything. It could be that, hey.
Match:You were in Afghanistan doing your time and, serving the country, and you came back, and we did a fly past to honor your efforts during, like, a Remembrance Day parade or something like that. Like, there's it's just these little bits of connection that, you know, in one individual event might not mean so much to people outside that event, but the collective combination of all that is greater than the individual parts, much like on the team. You know? Okay. One person flying formation off my wing is okay.
Match:One person flying formation off my wing, but you put eight of them around me and, you know, some coordinators on the ground and public affairs and maintenance to back all that up, and now all of a sudden, we have something that's greater than the sum of each individual part. Right? And so that's really what I hope people get out of this is that kind of celebration of our longevity and just hopefully us inspiring Canadians, whether it's to become aviation professionals in any kind of aviation career path or elsewhere, join the Canadian Armed Forces or become a nurse practitioner or just do something that they are passionate about and they're willing to dream big and work hard to go after and get. So and as well, like, if they're able to come see us. You know?
Match:We're we can't be everywhere. Obviously, logistically, that's hard. Air show seasons outside of the kinda June to September time frame in Canada are hard. But come see us. Try try to find somewhere nearby and come see us, and, hopefully, we also fly over your town on our way to other places and maybe lay some smoke, and you catch a glimpse of us in the in the golden hour sun as we transit around the country.
Match:But, we're we're but a mere glimpse of the opportunities available to CAF and and the skills, professionalism, teamwork that we learned along the way and are hoping to demonstrate of the greater Canadian military.
Bryan:Yeah. I know we're definitely gonna try in our family to see you guys this summer, especially for the last season with the tutor.
Match:Yeah. Please do.
Bryan:Okay, Match. That is going to wrap up our chat for today. This has been an awesome in-depth look into the Snowbirds and just sort of an inside view of how selections happen and how everything kind of works and operates. It's been very, very interesting. I'm very, very grateful that you took the time to chat with us.
Bryan:We did chat again earlier this weekend when you were in Columbus. Now you're in Quebec. Very, very busy time for you folks. So thank you to you. Thank you to Phil for helping us set this up.
Bryan:Thank you to everyone who's involved in getting this going. Yeah. Just, thanks so much. Best of luck to you and the team as you complete the 2026 season, and thank you for being on the show today.
Match:Thanks very much for having me. I hope to see as many of your listeners and other Canadians around the air show, season this summer, and we're off to PEI next. And, yeah, hope to chat with as many Canadians as I can. Awesome. Fly safe.
Match:Thank you. Smoke now.
Bryan:Alright. That wraps up our three part chat with Snowbird one, Maciej, Hatta. We're just so psyched that Match was able to make the time for us during what is a very busy show season. And, of course, listeners probably know this is the last Snowbird season for a while, so we highly encourage you to get out and check them out. You can find their schedule online by simply googling Snowbirds schedule 2026.
Bryan:If you've never seen them fly with the Tudors, this is your last summer to see it, and I believe it is something that every Canadian should see at least once. This is the part where normally I tell you what happens on the next episode. But for this episode, I've uploaded it further ahead of time than usual because this week, my family and I will be hitting the road to drive from Portage La Prairie, Manitoba to our new home just east of Barrie, Ontario. Because of that, I'm a bit ahead of schedule, I'm not quite sure which episode will come next. It will either be another series on four two seven, which is going to give you what I think might be one of the most unique looks into how four two seven became what it is today.
Bryan:However, any series with four two seven requires a few layers of approval with the military and that's a process that just takes how long it takes. So if that isn't the next series, we have a couple other great ones coming down the pipe. We have a pilot in Australia on the Seedcorn program flying the a three thirty. We have autonomous flight company Ribbit who is currently developing autonomous pilotless aircraft and lots more. Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show?
Bryan:Would you or somebody you know make a great guest, or do you have a great idea for a show? You can reach out to us at the pilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or on all social media at at pod pilotproject. And be sure to check out that social media for lots of great videos of our RCAF and mission aviation aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in and ask for your help with the big three. That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts.
Bryan:That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you. Engineer, shut down all fours.
Bryan:Shutting down all fours.