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Julie Fontes, author of “Like a Normal Person”
02:41 Journey to Sobriety
04:33 Challenges and Reflections
12:29 Different ways to quit drinking
17:46 Recognizing the Problem
19:21 Family Dynamics and Sobriety
25:25 The Struggle with Labels
💬 A Note from Us
This was a big moment for Sober Banter—our first guest interview and it was an honor to have Julie Fontes join us for it. Julie is the incredible author of Like a Normal Person, a memoir that moved us deeply with its raw honesty, vulnerability, and humor.
We’ll be real with you—this was our first time navigating interview mics, Zoom setups, and all the things behind the scenes, and yes… we were nervous. But Julie’s warmth and openness made us feel like we belonged in the space. She met us exactly where we were and gave us the confidence to grow as hosts.
We’re forever grateful that she trusted us to hold space for her story and became the voice that helped launch this next chapter of our podcast. Julie, thank you for being a part of our beginning—you set the tone for everything to come.
With so much gratitude,
— Rachel & Colin
— Rachel & Colin
Want to connect with today’s guest, Julie Fontes?
Visit her website at https://www.juliefontes.com.
You can also subscribe to her newsletter on Substack at https://juliefontes.substack.com.
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Do you have questions or feedback or want to be a guest? Hit us up at soberbanter.com or email Rachel at rachel@soberbanter.com
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Creators and Guests
What is Sober Banter?
Sober Banter, a podcast about life without alcohol, is real, relatable, and never boring. Hosts Rachel and Colin share honest conversations about sobriety with humor, heart, and a touch of chaos.
Colin Casey (00:00:00):
Hi, welcome to Sober Banter.
Colin Casey (00:00:01):
I am Colin.
Rachel Casey (00:00:02):
I'm Rachel.
Rachel Casey (00:00:03):
And we have our first guest, Miss Julie Fonts.
Julie Fontes (00:00:07):
Yes, I have an icebreaker question.
Julie Fontes (00:00:09):
But no, I thought of one when I was in the shower.
Julie Fontes (00:00:12):
That's really good.
Julie Fontes (00:00:13):
Those are the best.
Julie Fontes (00:00:14):
All right, let's hear it.
Julie Fontes (00:00:15):
Would you rather never be able to laugh for the rest of your life or have to go
Julie Fontes (00:00:22):
back to drinking?
Rachel Casey (00:00:24):
I guess I'm not laughing.
Colin Casey (00:00:25):
I don't want to cry for the rest of my life.
Rachel Casey (00:00:29):
Well, yeah, because I do believe that if I were to drink, I'd just be a suicide.
Rachel Casey (00:00:34):
That was the way I drank.
Rachel Casey (00:00:36):
And so I guess there's no laughter for me.
Rachel Casey (00:00:43):
What is your answer?
Rachel Casey (00:00:45):
I guess the same, Colin, or I don't think I could go back to drinking.
Colin Casey (00:00:48):
Yeah, I wouldn't because...
Colin Casey (00:00:50):
I could always just,
Colin Casey (00:00:51):
yeah,
Colin Casey (00:00:52):
I wouldn't be out loud laughing or chucking,
Colin Casey (00:00:54):
but I'll just kind of be like,
Colin Casey (00:00:55):
oh,
Colin Casey (00:00:55):
that was funny.
Julie Fontes (00:00:56):
Yeah, you get to laugh in your head, right?
Julie Fontes (00:00:57):
I was thinking I would be just like slightly amused for the rest of my life.
Julie Fontes (00:01:02):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:01:03):
I feel like we didn't give a proper introduction.
Rachel Casey (00:01:06):
You just wrote and published a book on your birthday.
Rachel Casey (00:01:09):
It was October 2nd, right?
Rachel Casey (00:01:10):
Yes, correct.
Rachel Casey (00:01:11):
Like a normal person, which.
Rachel Casey (00:01:13):
Yes.
Rachel Casey (00:01:15):
I'm guessing like drinking like a normal person or not drinking like a normal person.
Colin Casey (00:01:20):
Like the title.
Rachel Casey (00:01:21):
I love the cover.
Rachel Casey (00:01:22):
I love cats.
Rachel Casey (00:01:22):
I have two cats.
Rachel Casey (00:01:24):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:01:24):
And usually they come and invade this area when we're recording, but they're not.
Rachel Casey (00:01:28):
I would love it if they did.
Rachel Casey (00:01:29):
Oh no.
Rachel Casey (00:01:31):
They are scratching up these chairs.
Rachel Casey (00:01:32):
We have now pokes and they love it.
Rachel Casey (00:01:35):
So do you still have a cat currently?
Rachel Casey (00:01:38):
Oh yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:01:38):
On the cover.
Julie Fontes (00:01:40):
The artist, the cover designer, I sent her pictures of all my cats for inspiration.
Julie Fontes (00:01:46):
So it's kind of like an amalgamation of all my cats.
Rachel Casey (00:01:50):
I love that.
Rachel Casey (00:01:50):
It looks like a big fluffy fur, like a cuddly cat.
Julie Fontes (00:01:54):
We have a big fluffy calico.
Rachel Casey (00:01:56):
Oh, that's awesome.
Rachel Casey (00:01:57):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:01:58):
I've,
Rachel Casey (00:01:58):
Always grown up with a cat.
Rachel Casey (00:01:59):
Colin, not so much.
Colin Casey (00:02:01):
I adopted these two.
Colin Casey (00:02:02):
And as she said earlier, I have two cats.
Colin Casey (00:02:05):
She didn't say we have two cats.
Colin Casey (00:02:07):
Well,
Rachel Casey (00:02:07):
technically Mia was mine first and we got KitKat,
Rachel Casey (00:02:10):
which we thought was a girl and we found was a boy,
Rachel Casey (00:02:14):
but the two-year-old already learned KitKat.
Rachel Casey (00:02:16):
Our son, Evan, and there was no going back.
Rachel Casey (00:02:19):
so we were just like let's get cat that's a cute name for a cat we got we was drunk
Rachel Casey (00:02:23):
our friend came over and we were like yeah we'll take one and then we wake up we're
Rachel Casey (00:02:26):
like what and my son again two-year-old's already in love like there's no going
Rachel Casey (00:02:32):
back and yeah and i you have a daughter i do she is 23.
Julie Fontes (00:02:39):
I was really young when I had her.
Rachel Casey (00:02:41):
How does she feel about the dynamic of the book coming out and sharing your life?
Julie Fontes (00:02:48):
She's really supportive of it.
Julie Fontes (00:02:50):
She is a character in it, which is like something interesting to grapple with.
Julie Fontes (00:02:57):
having real people as characters in your book, but she's an only child.
Julie Fontes (00:03:01):
So in a way she just loves being the center of attention.
Rachel Casey (00:03:04):
I mean, yeah, it's so weird.
Rachel Casey (00:03:06):
And I've told my story at an AA meeting and my mom was listening.
Rachel Casey (00:03:10):
It is kind of weird because you're talking about,
Rachel Casey (00:03:13):
it's not the equivalent of writing a published book that goes a lot wider audience,
Rachel Casey (00:03:18):
but it's still,
Rachel Casey (00:03:19):
it's from your view.
Rachel Casey (00:03:20):
And even when we talk about memories, there's two different perspectives, you know?
Julie Fontes (00:03:25):
yeah and the perspective of the story i wanted to be very in the moment my
Julie Fontes (00:03:31):
perspective on what happened is completely different now from how i felt then oh
Colin Casey (00:03:37):
absolutely so you're saying when you were writing it it was different now yeah
Julie Fontes (00:03:42):
Yeah, because I'm big on first present tense.
Julie Fontes (00:03:47):
I want it to be a compelling story more than anything.
Julie Fontes (00:03:51):
It's not like, oh, this is how you get sober.
Julie Fontes (00:03:54):
It's more like, this is what happened when I got sober and it was kind of a shit show.
Julie Fontes (00:04:00):
which i think is a little bit more true to life because your problems don't all of
Rachel Casey (00:04:05):
a sudden all get solved no they don't yeah you don't skip off into the sunset no it
Rachel Casey (00:04:12):
doesn't but it's still life but it's weird because it's still better than when it
Rachel Casey (00:04:17):
was drinking so it's like you have this it's like it's not perfect but then you
Rachel Casey (00:04:23):
compare it to
Rachel Casey (00:04:24):
What it used to be like in your instant gratitude.
Rachel Casey (00:04:27):
And it's just, it's better than what it was.
Rachel Casey (00:04:29):
It's weird how that works.
Colin Casey (00:04:33):
One of my questions was, cause I know you said you tried multiple times to get sober.
Colin Casey (00:04:39):
So what were those multiple times like,
Colin Casey (00:04:42):
and how does that differ from where you are right now to where you feel ultimately
Colin Casey (00:04:47):
like you have it down or you kind of had that aha moment and figured out how to
Colin Casey (00:04:52):
stay sober?
Julie Fontes (00:04:55):
Well,
Julie Fontes (00:04:56):
the times in the past when I decided to get sober,
Julie Fontes (00:05:01):
it was always based on some kind of catastrophic event.
Julie Fontes (00:05:07):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:05:07):
And I heard that.
Rachel Casey (00:05:08):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:05:09):
Me too.
Rachel Casey (00:05:10):
And that's what it is.
Julie Fontes (00:05:10):
You weren't stupid.
Rachel Casey (00:05:12):
And we were asked to leave a friend's.
Rachel Casey (00:05:13):
We didn't talk to your friend after I was at the pool and I don't remember it.
Rachel Casey (00:05:17):
I was blacked out.
Rachel Casey (00:05:18):
I said something obviously pretty bad and I still don't remember.
Colin Casey (00:05:22):
There was a little bit of a physical altercation.
Rachel Casey (00:05:25):
There was?
Colin Casey (00:05:26):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:05:26):
Awesome.
Colin Casey (00:05:27):
You were trying to get one of his friends to drink with you and you were like
Colin Casey (00:05:32):
nudging her arm to pick up the shot glass.
Rachel Casey (00:05:36):
Yeah, I don't remember that, but I believe you.
Rachel Casey (00:05:38):
I know that they didn't talk to me for a while.
Rachel Casey (00:05:40):
And those are just moments that it's like, that would be a time.
Rachel Casey (00:05:43):
Okay.
Rachel Casey (00:05:43):
Maybe it's time to, and it would always be moderate.
Rachel Casey (00:05:48):
I don't know that I ever said before quit like forever.
Colin Casey (00:05:52):
Well, when stop, it was like, okay, we got it.
Colin Casey (00:05:54):
We would get a couple days and be like, oh, we stopped for a few days.
Colin Casey (00:05:58):
Let's treat ourselves.
Colin Casey (00:06:00):
And the only way we knew how to treat ourselves was by getting a bottle or a handle of Jameson.
Colin Casey (00:06:05):
We'll just do this for Friday and Saturday.
Colin Casey (00:06:08):
And then come Friday night, it's already all gone.
Colin Casey (00:06:12):
And we're going to door dash another one before they close.
Rachel Casey (00:06:16):
But what kind of events are, is this more like with friends, with work, or all...
Rachel Casey (00:06:21):
Family.
Julie Fontes (00:06:23):
See, here's what was difficult about it is like, I never lost a job.
Julie Fontes (00:06:28):
I never got a DUI.
Julie Fontes (00:06:29):
I like, I never like went so far.
Julie Fontes (00:06:34):
I like, it was never like a rock bottom.
Julie Fontes (00:06:37):
There was one incident where I quit for five years where like a romantic
Julie Fontes (00:06:42):
relationship that like a guy who I was really in love with.
Julie Fontes (00:06:47):
I did something at a bar.
Julie Fontes (00:06:48):
I don't even remember.
Julie Fontes (00:06:49):
I was a blackout.
Julie Fontes (00:06:50):
I like sat on someone's lap or something.
Julie Fontes (00:06:53):
And he wasn't even the guy that I was with.
Julie Fontes (00:06:55):
Wasn't even a good guy anyways.
Julie Fontes (00:06:57):
It's always like, yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:06:59):
He was cheating on me the whole time,
Julie Fontes (00:07:02):
but it destroyed our relationship,
Julie Fontes (00:07:05):
which wasn't even good in the first place.
Julie Fontes (00:07:07):
So I was like, okay, I can't do this anymore because I lost something really important to me.
Julie Fontes (00:07:12):
After five years, I was like, okay, I didn't drink for five years.
Julie Fontes (00:07:15):
I'm obviously fine.
Rachel Casey (00:07:17):
Right.
Rachel Casey (00:07:19):
And when I made it through pregnancy, that was my, oh, I can make it nine months.
Rachel Casey (00:07:24):
Like, obviously I don't have a problem.
Colin Casey (00:07:26):
Well,
Colin Casey (00:07:26):
and I remember there was one time when you were around six,
Colin Casey (00:07:30):
seven months,
Colin Casey (00:07:31):
you were like,
Colin Casey (00:07:32):
you know what?
Colin Casey (00:07:33):
After I have Evan,
Colin Casey (00:07:33):
I think I'm just going to maybe not drink as much as I did or not drink for a while.
Colin Casey (00:07:38):
There was a small time where you actually enjoyed being sober.
Rachel Casey (00:07:41):
I don't remember that either.
Colin Casey (00:07:42):
Yeah.
Colin Casey (00:07:43):
And I was just kind of like, we'll see how long that lasts.
Colin Casey (00:07:46):
At the same time, I kind of felt like I was missing my drinking buddy for a little bit.
Rachel Casey (00:07:51):
did you feel after the five-year stint that you almost like went harder to make up
Julie Fontes (00:07:56):
for last time or you think it was just kind of even keel um no i slowly got back to
Julie Fontes (00:08:02):
like binging every now and then what i discovered about my drinking is that it
Julie Fontes (00:08:07):
really mattered who i was drinking with and under what circumstances like how hard
Julie Fontes (00:08:12):
i would go um and like there was another incident
Julie Fontes (00:08:19):
where I got a therapist and like she tried to coach me how to moderate my drinking.
Julie Fontes (00:08:25):
And I talked about this was Winnie the Pooh.
Julie Fontes (00:08:27):
Yeah,
Julie Fontes (00:08:27):
I was like,
Rachel Casey (00:08:28):
I wrote that down because I,
Rachel Casey (00:08:30):
well,
Rachel Casey (00:08:30):
not that my therapist,
Rachel Casey (00:08:32):
so I also was in therapy the year before,
Rachel Casey (00:08:35):
but I almost used the therapy.
Rachel Casey (00:08:37):
I would lightly talk about my drinking.
Rachel Casey (00:08:40):
I wasn't being completely honest about how much, and I almost felt like she was co-signing.
Rachel Casey (00:08:44):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:08:45):
Not only that, but
Rachel Casey (00:08:48):
I didn't have a way to deal with life's problems.
Rachel Casey (00:08:51):
And I know there was not a single appointment that immediately after I didn't go
Rachel Casey (00:08:56):
get a drink because talking about emotional stuff,
Rachel Casey (00:08:58):
the only way I knew was to run,
Rachel Casey (00:09:01):
you know,
Rachel Casey (00:09:01):
and alcohol made me forget.
Rachel Casey (00:09:02):
Therapy almost made it a little more.
Rachel Casey (00:09:06):
They give you kind of permission to do it.
Rachel Casey (00:09:08):
Well, they say, oh yeah, it's fine.
Rachel Casey (00:09:10):
If you know, that's just normal.
Rachel Casey (00:09:12):
And I wasn't being honest, but it wasn't.
Rachel Casey (00:09:16):
normal drinking even some of the things i said i used it as a cosign like oh well
Rachel Casey (00:09:20):
my therapist says it's fine yeah i'm in therapy now so i'm all better than really i
Rachel Casey (00:09:25):
was just i'd probably go even a little harder and so what do you do for i know
Rachel Casey (00:09:32):
you're now author but did i read that you were in the service industry yeah i still
Julie Fontes (00:09:40):
weigh tables how is that
Julie Fontes (00:09:43):
Um, it's, I'm really conflicted sometimes because I am like my job is to sell alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:09:53):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:09:53):
So like that part of it.
Julie Fontes (00:09:55):
And I like, I'm good at it.
Rachel Casey (00:09:56):
I was too.
Julie Fontes (00:09:58):
It's the hardest part of my job is to like, here's this thing that ruins people's lives.
Rachel Casey (00:10:07):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:10:08):
Have another one and pay $20 for it.
Rachel Casey (00:10:12):
And I mean,
Rachel Casey (00:10:13):
I,
Rachel Casey (00:10:13):
at the end of my waiting tables,
Rachel Casey (00:10:14):
one of the big things I started getting the shakes.
Rachel Casey (00:10:17):
Like I couldn't deliver unless it was a rocks glass by the wine stem.
Rachel Casey (00:10:23):
I would start shaking.
Rachel Casey (00:10:25):
That was even the beginning of pregnancy.
Rachel Casey (00:10:27):
It was like my body didn't want to part with the alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:10:30):
Oh my God.
Rachel Casey (00:10:31):
And again, that wasn't a red flag for me.
Rachel Casey (00:10:33):
I'm like, oh, it's probably just the pregnancy hormones.
Rachel Casey (00:10:36):
Like it's just always a sign.
Julie Fontes (00:10:38):
There's always a pregnancy tremors.
Rachel Casey (00:10:40):
I didn't.
Rachel Casey (00:10:41):
read books because in service industry I'd be too shit-faced to read I kind of lost
Rachel Casey (00:10:49):
I mean I do audiobooks I like to listen to some in the car but I mean physically
Rachel Casey (00:10:54):
reading I kind of had a hard time when I first got sober sitting with your sponsor
Rachel Casey (00:10:58):
reading the big book out loud I didn't realize how much time I'd lost so did you
Rachel Casey (00:11:03):
read too while drinking like reading and
Rachel Casey (00:11:07):
you know, a book at night?
Julie Fontes (00:11:10):
Not as much as I want to.
Julie Fontes (00:11:13):
I'm like a total bibliophile.
Julie Fontes (00:11:15):
I love books.
Julie Fontes (00:11:17):
But there was a long period of time where I just didn't read any books.
Julie Fontes (00:11:21):
But when I quit drinking, I dove so deep into the Quitlet.
Rachel Casey (00:11:25):
I read some of the ones you talked about, like the Annie Grace one.
Julie Fontes (00:11:28):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:11:29):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:11:30):
And I didn't go to AA or anything.
Julie Fontes (00:11:32):
So...
Julie Fontes (00:11:34):
it's kind of where I found guidance, I guess, and I felt less alone.
Julie Fontes (00:11:39):
And, um, but I, I felt like yours.
Julie Fontes (00:11:44):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:11:44):
And it inspired me to write mine.
Julie Fontes (00:11:45):
Cause I felt like there's that whole wrapped up in a tidy little bow thing that happens,
Julie Fontes (00:11:55):
which is not what happens in my book,
Julie Fontes (00:11:58):
but it does show personal growth and like,
Julie Fontes (00:12:01):
yes,
Julie Fontes (00:12:01):
you're like,
Julie Fontes (00:12:03):
Go girl.
Rachel Casey (00:12:05):
I'm kind of at the,
Rachel Casey (00:12:06):
I've only got,
Rachel Casey (00:12:07):
like I said,
Rachel Casey (00:12:07):
to the beginning,
Rachel Casey (00:12:08):
I'm kind of like,
Rachel Casey (00:12:09):
I know that Henry was a character in the beginning.
Rachel Casey (00:12:12):
And so I guess another question is,
Rachel Casey (00:12:15):
did you just take notes or when you wrote the book,
Rachel Casey (00:12:18):
is it more memory based?
Rachel Casey (00:12:19):
Did you log some of the events?
Julie Fontes (00:12:24):
All of the above.
Julie Fontes (00:12:27):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:12:27):
So I, when I stopped drinking, I started journaling and I also hired a writing coach.
Julie Fontes (00:12:37):
It's actually in the book that I hired this writing coach when I'm like really spiraling.
Julie Fontes (00:12:42):
Cause I just feel so lost in life.
Julie Fontes (00:12:45):
Like I let my life get away from me.
Julie Fontes (00:12:48):
I was thinking about going back to grad school or going to finish school because I
Julie Fontes (00:12:53):
never finished my bachelor's degree.
Julie Fontes (00:12:54):
Like going back to grad school, you have to actually graduate first.
Rachel Casey (00:12:58):
I mean, I only had three credits when I got sober.
Rachel Casey (00:13:01):
I didn't even think I could go back to college.
Rachel Casey (00:13:04):
Like I thought I'd get rejected and
Rachel Casey (00:13:06):
I mean,
Rachel Casey (00:13:06):
I'm,
Rachel Casey (00:13:07):
I think now I have like 78 credits and I wish I had my bachelor's,
Rachel Casey (00:13:11):
but I couldn't do school with the state of like waiting tables was my career.
Rachel Casey (00:13:17):
And that was,
Rachel Casey (00:13:18):
I went fine dining and you know,
Rachel Casey (00:13:20):
in fine dining,
Rachel Casey (00:13:21):
you can make more than what I could.
Rachel Casey (00:13:23):
I didn't even know what I wanted to do.
Colin Casey (00:13:25):
I mean, there are career servers in the fine dining industry, making the money you were making.
Rachel Casey (00:13:30):
And I know what it feels like to be like, then you get sober and you're just like,
Rachel Casey (00:13:36):
this isn't what my heart's wanting to do.
Rachel Casey (00:13:39):
I want to do something more.
Rachel Casey (00:13:40):
And I can feel that.
Colin Casey (00:13:42):
I had a question too,
Colin Casey (00:13:44):
because I always like to ask this when we've done a lot of our episodes is just how
Colin Casey (00:13:51):
you got sober or what method worked for you because everybody's different.
Colin Casey (00:13:55):
But did you ever,
Colin Casey (00:13:56):
was there a time in any of the other stints that you had where you tried some sort
Colin Casey (00:14:00):
of group or AA or?
Julie Fontes (00:14:02):
When I was a teenager, I used to go to,
Julie Fontes (00:14:06):
NA because my best friend and I got caught doing drugs and then we got grounded and
Julie Fontes (00:14:14):
then NA was the only place where we were allowed to like go if we were leaving the
Julie Fontes (00:14:18):
house so that's where we would hang out yeah I didn't even like at that point I
Julie Fontes (00:14:24):
didn't really belong there yeah
Julie Fontes (00:14:30):
but it was like i wasn't even there to be there i was there just to hang out with
Julie Fontes (00:14:35):
my best friend you know because like because you couldn't go to the movies together
Rachel Casey (00:14:38):
i couldn't go do anything else yeah and i wanted to be like are you old enough to
Rachel Casey (00:14:42):
drink coffee yeah i started coffee at 11.
Rachel Casey (00:14:45):
okay so i'm like i don't remember when i sometime in high school but i don't
Rachel Casey (00:14:51):
remember when
Julie Fontes (00:14:53):
This last time it wasn't anything really from outside of myself that like,
Julie Fontes (00:15:01):
it was more of a mindset,
Julie Fontes (00:15:03):
like something just clicked where after trying to moderate and just,
Julie Fontes (00:15:10):
you know,
Julie Fontes (00:15:11):
actually being able,
Julie Fontes (00:15:12):
like I had a great summer of drinking.
Julie Fontes (00:15:14):
I.
Julie Fontes (00:15:16):
didn't blackout all summer.
Julie Fontes (00:15:17):
I went to Mexico.
Julie Fontes (00:15:18):
I went to birthday parties.
Julie Fontes (00:15:22):
I didn't blackout.
Julie Fontes (00:15:23):
I always wanted to be a normal drinker.
Julie Fontes (00:15:26):
And then at the end of it, it was like, and then what?
Julie Fontes (00:15:30):
I'm really just tired.
Julie Fontes (00:15:33):
And like it, it actually hurts still.
Julie Fontes (00:15:38):
I don't have to do anything to destroy my life for this to know that this isn't
Julie Fontes (00:15:43):
helping anything.
Julie Fontes (00:15:44):
Like it is making me feel sick.
Julie Fontes (00:15:47):
It's making me feel just kind of like,
Julie Fontes (00:15:50):
like everything is muted,
Julie Fontes (00:15:52):
you know,
Julie Fontes (00:15:52):
like,
Julie Fontes (00:15:53):
yeah,
Julie Fontes (00:15:54):
like all the vibrancy and life.
Rachel Casey (00:15:57):
I feel like that was mine.
Rachel Casey (00:15:59):
Nothing spectacular happened.
Rachel Casey (00:16:02):
It was a day at the zoo.
Rachel Casey (00:16:03):
And I remember having that vivid moment of, I can't live with alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:16:07):
I can't live without it.
Rachel Casey (00:16:08):
Nothing major happened.
Rachel Casey (00:16:09):
It was just the feeling of internal, like, this isn't working anymore.
Rachel Casey (00:16:15):
I feel like those are the spiritual experience moments that I hear with success stories.
Rachel Casey (00:16:22):
I agree with
Rachel Casey (00:16:24):
what i've read in the book and also heard through winnie the pooh which i still
Rachel Casey (00:16:28):
think is so cute i love the humor you added if you're not doing it for you
Rachel Casey (00:16:33):
eventually it's the same as kind of like with codependence and the relationship
Rachel Casey (00:16:38):
because i i 100 am someone who would be codependent and i am that girl that
Rachel Casey (00:16:47):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:16:48):
I never dated any sober guys,
Rachel Casey (00:16:50):
but had they been sober,
Rachel Casey (00:16:52):
that probably would have been the only thing that could have kept me sober.
Rachel Casey (00:16:56):
The wanting to be loved or something.
Rachel Casey (00:17:00):
That's the only thing that could have replaced it.
Rachel Casey (00:17:02):
If you're not doing it for you, eventually.
Rachel Casey (00:17:06):
I feel it's cause it, yeah.
Colin Casey (00:17:08):
The first time you have some sort of roadblock,
Colin Casey (00:17:11):
you're going to turn to the only thing that's ever been there for you.
Rachel Casey (00:17:15):
And I feel like that's the kind of times where, when we talk about, I did quit for a little bit.
Rachel Casey (00:17:22):
I always had it in the back, like, well, it'll be there, you know, in the future.
Rachel Casey (00:17:29):
This was the first time where I really was like, it's a day at a time until it turned to
Rachel Casey (00:17:35):
Yeah, I'm definitely an alcoholic.
Rachel Casey (00:17:37):
Like when I put alcohol in my body, I won't be able to not have a thousand.
Rachel Casey (00:17:44):
I don't want one.
Rachel Casey (00:17:45):
I want like a hundred, you know, and that's just not normal.
Rachel Casey (00:17:50):
That's not how normal people think about it.
Rachel Casey (00:17:52):
Yeah.
Colin Casey (00:17:52):
Well,
Colin Casey (00:17:53):
I know for me,
Colin Casey (00:17:55):
I've always kind of in the back of my head knew I had a problem and didn't want to
Colin Casey (00:17:59):
address it because there would be times I would be thinking to myself,
Colin Casey (00:18:02):
like,
Colin Casey (00:18:03):
really shouldn't be having this other beer,
Colin Casey (00:18:06):
this another shot because I got work or something going on tomorrow or I already
Colin Casey (00:18:10):
feel like shit.
Colin Casey (00:18:11):
And I was like, I can't keep doing this forever, but I'm not going to stop today.
Colin Casey (00:18:15):
There's going to be a day where I'm not going to drink, but it's not today.
Colin Casey (00:18:19):
But I knew that day would eventually come.
Rachel Casey (00:18:22):
The other thing that you had mentioned too, is that I really liked the light in people's eyes.
Rachel Casey (00:18:29):
And I saw the light,
Rachel Casey (00:18:33):
like people told me my eyes changed color because they used to be a dark brown,
Rachel Casey (00:18:36):
but they're light brown.
Rachel Casey (00:18:37):
When you talked about drinking around other people,
Rachel Casey (00:18:39):
there comes that point where you start to see the light kind of dim.
Rachel Casey (00:18:43):
And I thought that was just fantastic.
Rachel Casey (00:18:45):
The way you describe things in your book, even when you're speaking, you are
Rachel Casey (00:18:52):
You do a great job of the imagery of feeling like you are there.
Rachel Casey (00:18:56):
And I think that's the I stance,
Rachel Casey (00:18:58):
you know,
Rachel Casey (00:18:58):
it's like you're talking from the first person and I still don't understand how I'm
Rachel Casey (00:19:04):
sober because I just didn't think I'd ever be sober.
Rachel Casey (00:19:07):
I just really didn't think that that would be an option.
Rachel Casey (00:19:13):
Like I never thought I would say that.
Julie Fontes (00:19:16):
So it's wonderful.
Julie Fontes (00:19:18):
I'm so happy for you and your child.
Rachel Casey (00:19:21):
And he changed, you know, and I don't know if what you saw.
Rachel Casey (00:19:25):
So if you had the five,
Rachel Casey (00:19:27):
did you notice a difference during the five year stint or how old was your daughter
Rachel Casey (00:19:31):
at that time?
Julie Fontes (00:19:33):
So that was actually kind of perfectly timed because she was 10 when I quit drinking.
Julie Fontes (00:19:38):
Me and her dad had split up when she was three.
Julie Fontes (00:19:41):
I did all of my heavy drinking when she was at her dad's house.
Julie Fontes (00:19:45):
Okay.
Julie Fontes (00:19:46):
So she didn't really see me drunk.
Colin Casey (00:19:49):
Cause you did say you were kind of one of the, where you binge on.
Julie Fontes (00:19:52):
So I would make up for all the time when I was with my daughter and had to be sober
Julie Fontes (00:19:59):
and be this one person,
Julie Fontes (00:20:01):
this sober mom.
Julie Fontes (00:20:02):
And when she would go to her dad's, I would just go insane.
Julie Fontes (00:20:07):
She didn't really see so much of a change.
Julie Fontes (00:20:12):
She didn't really realize that I had a drinking problem until,
Julie Fontes (00:20:16):
She was much older, I guess.
Julie Fontes (00:20:18):
And then she did.
Julie Fontes (00:20:19):
It's very normal in our family.
Rachel Casey (00:20:21):
My mom is sober.
Rachel Casey (00:20:23):
So my mom just hit 10 years.
Rachel Casey (00:20:24):
And that's awesome.
Colin Casey (00:20:26):
When I remember your mom got sober right before you turned 21.
Rachel Casey (00:20:31):
When I was young, I swore I'd never drink, never become my parents.
Rachel Casey (00:20:35):
I believe I'm truly alcoholic because once I had my first drink,
Rachel Casey (00:20:40):
I don't believe I even had a choice anymore.
Rachel Casey (00:20:42):
Like the sip, it was done.
Rachel Casey (00:20:45):
It was like, this is the thing.
Rachel Casey (00:20:47):
This is the thing.
Rachel Casey (00:20:47):
It makes you feel.
Rachel Casey (00:20:50):
We don't have one belief over the other, but in AA, I like the description.
Rachel Casey (00:20:55):
Bill says it's just that elusive feeling.
Rachel Casey (00:20:58):
And then when it becomes too bad,
Rachel Casey (00:21:00):
he says,
Rachel Casey (00:21:00):
you feel like you're in quick stand and it's all around you.
Rachel Casey (00:21:03):
You can't grasp anything.
Rachel Casey (00:21:05):
And that's exactly how I felt at the end.
Rachel Casey (00:21:07):
I can't go with it.
Rachel Casey (00:21:08):
I can't go without it.
Rachel Casey (00:21:10):
There is no correct answer in AA.
Rachel Casey (00:21:14):
what's wrong and then you have to learn
Rachel Casey (00:21:17):
I didn't even know who I was.
Rachel Casey (00:21:18):
And I think you kind of said that, but learning who you are, you kind of feel a little lost.
Rachel Casey (00:21:23):
I didn't know I liked reading.
Rachel Casey (00:21:24):
It's a little embarrassing that I can struggle at times.
Rachel Casey (00:21:28):
And I really liked the words you use.
Rachel Casey (00:21:30):
So did you have a literacy background before?
Rachel Casey (00:21:32):
Like, what did you study at Caltech?
Julie Fontes (00:21:34):
Yeah, I studied creative writing.
Rachel Casey (00:21:37):
I was like, you definitely have, even the way your chapters are put.
Rachel Casey (00:21:41):
I really like for someone who's now almost three years in school is definitely elevated.
Rachel Casey (00:21:48):
my vocabulary,
Rachel Casey (00:21:49):
but I was going to say it's,
Rachel Casey (00:21:52):
I just like the bigger words that I'm like,
Rachel Casey (00:21:55):
okay,
Rachel Casey (00:21:55):
wait,
Rachel Casey (00:21:55):
I might have to go look that up and I can get the context,
Rachel Casey (00:21:59):
but I like to look at what's,
Rachel Casey (00:22:03):
what's,
Rachel Casey (00:22:03):
what did you have?
Rachel Casey (00:22:04):
I just loved like performance, commencement, penance, limerence.
Rachel Casey (00:22:07):
Like I looked at it.
Julie Fontes (00:22:10):
Did you look it up?
Julie Fontes (00:22:12):
I was looking at me.
Julie Fontes (00:22:13):
It's such an intense,
Julie Fontes (00:22:15):
thing how did you use your words with that like what was the idea so i didn't like
Julie Fontes (00:22:23):
start out like i had a developmental editor who told me to break it up into these
Julie Fontes (00:22:28):
sections and then she suggested names for them i didn't have the names until it was
Julie Fontes (00:22:34):
like time to almost time to publish
Julie Fontes (00:22:38):
But I found Limerence was like on a podcast episode.
Julie Fontes (00:22:42):
Jillian Tarecki, I don't know if you've heard of her.
Julie Fontes (00:22:44):
No.
Julie Fontes (00:22:46):
She's a love and relationship coach, therapist.
Julie Fontes (00:22:51):
She's wonderful, brilliant.
Julie Fontes (00:22:53):
Check it out.
Julie Fontes (00:22:54):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:22:54):
I think it's called Jillian on Love is the name of her podcast.
Julie Fontes (00:23:00):
But she talks about Limerence, which is something that happened when I got sober and I...
Julie Fontes (00:23:08):
my relationship ended,
Julie Fontes (00:23:09):
I became obsessed with someone that I worked with and it didn't make any sense to
Julie Fontes (00:23:16):
me what was happening,
Julie Fontes (00:23:17):
like why it was happening.
Julie Fontes (00:23:20):
Like I could see it from outside of myself and it looked like kind of a mental illness.
Rachel Casey (00:23:29):
I mean, I feel like it takes with, you know, there's, I know what you're talking about.
Rachel Casey (00:23:34):
Again, I understand he's never worked in the restaurant industry.
Rachel Casey (00:23:38):
I totally get it.
Rachel Casey (00:23:38):
Like I'm with work or was it work?
Rachel Casey (00:23:40):
You said, right.
Julie Fontes (00:23:42):
It was someone that I worked with, which I never date coworkers, but.
Julie Fontes (00:23:46):
Oh, I did.
Julie Fontes (00:23:47):
And I never will again.
Rachel Casey (00:23:50):
It's not what I'd recommend.
Julie Fontes (00:23:52):
No, never again.
Rachel Casey (00:23:54):
I guess I should say never because I still tell, you know, I think.
Rachel Casey (00:23:59):
there's just these divine interventions that you kind of just know things like what
Rachel Casey (00:24:03):
you're describing right now.
Rachel Casey (00:24:04):
And I will let you continue of kind of having like that.
Rachel Casey (00:24:06):
I can see what it looks like from a top, but like, I'm still doing it.
Julie Fontes (00:24:10):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:24:10):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:24:11):
Like, like a session.
Julie Fontes (00:24:13):
Like I,
Julie Fontes (00:24:17):
things get planted in people's head over and over again like okay is he gonna text
Julie Fontes (00:24:23):
is he gonna text me what's going on oh i can go real cringe on he didn't like he
Julie Fontes (00:24:27):
didn't do social media so it was like i don't even have anything to look at that's
Julie Fontes (00:24:32):
so i would try to do a background check
Rachel Casey (00:24:36):
I would, I was psycho.
Rachel Casey (00:24:38):
Like I would see your online on Facebook or see you read my message and be like,
Rachel Casey (00:24:42):
I can see you read it.
Rachel Casey (00:24:43):
I met you when I was 22.
Rachel Casey (00:24:45):
There are so many red flags you saw and you proceeded.
Rachel Casey (00:24:48):
So this is on you.
Colin Casey (00:24:50):
I saw multiple because I was also drunk.
Colin Casey (00:24:52):
Probably one red flag, but I saw.
Rachel Casey (00:24:54):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:24:55):
And during our fights, when I threw things, when I got real drunk, real angry, I was a thrower.
Rachel Casey (00:25:01):
Like, I will throw a bar stool or a chair in the house.
Rachel Casey (00:25:05):
And,
Rachel Casey (00:25:05):
like,
Rachel Casey (00:25:05):
once we're fighting and it's stuck in the wall and the fight stopped because he's like,
Rachel Casey (00:25:11):
ah,
Rachel Casey (00:25:11):
that's just impressive.
Rachel Casey (00:25:12):
He was like, I'm over it.
Rachel Casey (00:25:14):
And I'm, like, throwing it at him.
Rachel Casey (00:25:16):
That's really, really nice.
Rachel Casey (00:25:17):
And, I mean, again, psycho.
Colin Casey (00:25:19):
It looked like a tornado just hit the house.
Colin Casey (00:25:22):
Things are sticking out of walls and things.
Colin Casey (00:25:24):
I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool.
Rachel Casey (00:25:25):
So, I understand when you say, like, I think that's just with
Rachel Casey (00:25:32):
I don't, so do you identify as alcoholic or you just, or not?
Rachel Casey (00:25:36):
That's not.
Rachel Casey (00:25:37):
No, I don't.
Julie Fontes (00:25:40):
I don't just being alcohol.
Julie Fontes (00:25:42):
So how do you, I don't put any labels on myself.
Rachel Casey (00:25:46):
I think that's, we're both again, very open.
Rachel Casey (00:25:50):
It's the same when we talk about religion and God, like,
Rachel Casey (00:25:54):
I'm more of a meditation turn it over in the universe.
Rachel Casey (00:25:57):
Like it just has to go to something.
Rachel Casey (00:26:00):
It's not me.
Rachel Casey (00:26:01):
It has to go.
Rachel Casey (00:26:02):
I don't care if it exists or not, but in my head, I'm giving it.
Rachel Casey (00:26:07):
to something because I gotta let go.
Rachel Casey (00:26:10):
I don't know how to let go.
Rachel Casey (00:26:12):
And God is just the easier term than breaking it down.
Colin Casey (00:26:14):
I'm just too lazy to think of a different word.
Colin Casey (00:26:17):
So I just say God or higher power,
Colin Casey (00:26:19):
but I don't necessarily believe in the same thing,
Colin Casey (00:26:23):
like a church's version of God.
Julie Fontes (00:26:24):
I guess I have a hard time with it because I feel like people who keep drinking get a pass.
Julie Fontes (00:26:33):
They don't have to call themselves alcoholic, even though...
Julie Fontes (00:26:37):
to say I was alcoholic when I was drinking it feels like the label is I cannot
Julie Fontes (00:26:43):
label myself in any way as bad because I will beat myself up with it historically
Julie Fontes (00:26:48):
I'm just like yeah you're just the kind of person who can't handle anything like
Julie Fontes (00:26:53):
but like I feel like in quitting drinking I've beyond that
Julie Fontes (00:27:01):
I'm now addicted to other things actually.
Julie Fontes (00:27:04):
Oh yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:27:04):
I mean, you joke that this is our new addiction.
Rachel Casey (00:27:07):
So I try to look at my alcohol usage.
Rachel Casey (00:27:10):
I don't regret because I use it as an experience to help the next person.
Rachel Casey (00:27:15):
If I didn't go through that, then I wouldn't be able to relate.
Rachel Casey (00:27:20):
So that's how, I mean, at least for me, I give it my little spin of it's like my superpower.
Julie Fontes (00:27:27):
So do your drinking people come up to you and like tell you how they're going to quit drinking?
Julie Fontes (00:27:33):
I feel like people do that to me all the time while they're drunk.
Colin Casey (00:27:37):
I know we talked about it recently in one of our shows.
Colin Casey (00:27:41):
I went to a bachelor party and I was maybe a year and a half.
Colin Casey (00:27:45):
Sober or so.
Colin Casey (00:27:46):
And luckily, one of the guys on the bachelor party with has had three years sobriety.
Colin Casey (00:27:51):
So the two of us kind of piled around together.
Colin Casey (00:27:55):
But one of the guys there who is from England who
Colin Casey (00:27:59):
I mean, pretty much all the other eight guys were getting as wasted as possible.
Colin Casey (00:28:04):
The nice thing was when the check came at the end of the weekend,
Colin Casey (00:28:07):
we didn't have to pay for the alcohol because we didn't drink it.
Rachel Casey (00:28:10):
Yeah, I wouldn't know.
Rachel Casey (00:28:11):
And it's so expensive.
Rachel Casey (00:28:12):
Now that I'm sober, I'm like, oh, my God.
Colin Casey (00:28:14):
He would apologize to me and say, like, oh, I don't usually drink this much.
Colin Casey (00:28:18):
I'm like, I don't care, dude.
Colin Casey (00:28:21):
I really like apologizing to me.
Rachel Casey (00:28:24):
Yeah, I'm not judging.
Rachel Casey (00:28:25):
I'm like, that was me.
Rachel Casey (00:28:26):
Yeah, I was that person.
Rachel Casey (00:28:30):
when people start getting in my bubble or I get like overly I try to say in my head
Rachel Casey (00:28:37):
show the grace that you have been shown before you got sober I think the best way
Rachel Casey (00:28:43):
to make sober it's not a promotional thing it's a compliment if people are asking
Rachel Casey (00:28:48):
because that means you're making it look good
Rachel Casey (00:28:51):
You're making sober look good.
Rachel Casey (00:28:53):
People always want to be pulled up, but typically it's dragged down.
Rachel Casey (00:28:57):
When you have that light in your eyes,
Rachel Casey (00:28:59):
that sparkle,
Rachel Casey (00:29:00):
it's not something everyone can obtain because it takes the white knucklings where
Rachel Casey (00:29:06):
I never saw my eyes change.
Rachel Casey (00:29:08):
It wasn't until I wanted to change that my eyes changed.
Rachel Casey (00:29:12):
My face, it was really, you can see it in the pictures.
Rachel Casey (00:29:14):
It's cool to see.
Julie Fontes (00:29:17):
It's like a relief to drink anymore.
Rachel Casey (00:29:19):
I don't have to think about it anymore.
Rachel Casey (00:29:21):
During the first few months, it was hard.
Rachel Casey (00:29:24):
It's not like I didn't still crave alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:29:27):
I craved it like crazy in the beginning,
Rachel Casey (00:29:30):
but the meeting to meeting kept me because I didn't have a job.
Rachel Casey (00:29:33):
I had lost my job.
Rachel Casey (00:29:34):
I wasn't in school.
Rachel Casey (00:29:35):
I hadn't applied yet.
Rachel Casey (00:29:36):
I had a two-year-old and then he was starting daycare.
Rachel Casey (00:29:39):
I think AA was good for me.
Rachel Casey (00:29:42):
Because it kept me in a community when I had nothing else to rely on because I'd
Rachel Casey (00:29:47):
lost everything else.
Rachel Casey (00:29:48):
We weren't getting along because he didn't want to do AA.
Rachel Casey (00:29:50):
And I'm thinking he's going to go back out and drink because a little bit of the AA
Rachel Casey (00:29:54):
culture will make you think that anyone who's not doing it,
Colin Casey (00:29:58):
they're out there.
Rachel Casey (00:29:59):
And I'm just like, why don't you want to come on the lifeboat?
Rachel Casey (00:30:04):
But I realize not everyone has to do AA.
Rachel Casey (00:30:07):
I think it was my fear that I would drink again.
Rachel Casey (00:30:11):
that I projected onto anyone else who wasn't doing what I was doing.
Rachel Casey (00:30:15):
Cause I'm just like fear, fear, fear.
Rachel Casey (00:30:17):
And then I realized I'm not in control.
Rachel Casey (00:30:20):
Once I wasn't scared, I didn't care how he was recovering.
Rachel Casey (00:30:24):
So do you plan on doing any more like following up over the next few years?
Rachel Casey (00:30:29):
I know you just published your first one, so I'm not trying to.
Julie Fontes (00:30:32):
I don't think I'm going to write another book, another memoir type book.
Julie Fontes (00:30:37):
no i definitely like the act of writing the story made me feel even more crazy than
Julie Fontes (00:30:45):
living it carrying it yeah it's all very emotionally taxing so my next book is
Rachel Casey (00:30:52):
gonna definitely be fiction oh yeah well and your creative writing but i just
Rachel Casey (00:30:57):
wasn't sure if you're still like
Rachel Casey (00:31:00):
doing the notes like he's he is with stand-up comedy he's constantly doing notes in
Rachel Casey (00:31:04):
his phone or he has a little book in his backpack yeah i'm not as good at that but
Rachel Casey (00:31:09):
i'm also not as much of a writer yeah i'm more of a speaker than anything but uh i
Rachel Casey (00:31:15):
was just curious on if you're kind of like more aware of oh i want to write this
Rachel Casey (00:31:21):
down or note it but you also have the weekly
Colin Casey (00:31:25):
On Substack.
Colin Casey (00:31:25):
I was going to ask, are you just going to do maybe updates?
Julie Fontes (00:31:28):
Substack is the sequel.
Colin Casey (00:31:31):
Yeah.
Colin Casey (00:31:31):
Where you can continue where you are in your life.
Julie Fontes (00:31:35):
That goes to my Substack with the idea that people,
Julie Fontes (00:31:38):
if they're curious and want to know what happened next,
Julie Fontes (00:31:42):
it's all there on Substack.
Rachel Casey (00:31:44):
And we will put the Substack link in the show notes.
Rachel Casey (00:31:48):
So that way you are able to access it.
Rachel Casey (00:31:49):
Is the Amazon link the best?
Rachel Casey (00:31:51):
Or you want me to just put your website?
Rachel Casey (00:31:52):
I think my website.
Julie Fontes (00:31:54):
And it's just your name.
Rachel Casey (00:31:54):
It's Julie, Julie fonts.com.
Rachel Casey (00:31:57):
Yep.
Rachel Casey (00:31:57):
But yeah,
Rachel Casey (00:31:59):
that one of the things that's happening in AA,
Rachel Casey (00:32:02):
and that's one of the things that started kind of turning me in the other direction
Rachel Casey (00:32:07):
or trying not other direction,
Rachel Casey (00:32:09):
but trying to find,
Rachel Casey (00:32:10):
like,
Rachel Casey (00:32:11):
I definitely want inclusive,
Rachel Casey (00:32:12):
like the heart of.
Rachel Casey (00:32:15):
Anything I do,
Rachel Casey (00:32:16):
like the podcast or writing is like,
Rachel Casey (00:32:18):
I just want to help someone who was struggling like I was struggling.
Rachel Casey (00:32:21):
And I think that's what you say in your book is like,
Rachel Casey (00:32:24):
this story might not resonate,
Rachel Casey (00:32:26):
but if it does and you relate,
Rachel Casey (00:32:28):
you know,
Rachel Casey (00:32:29):
there's hope.
(00:32:30):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:32:35):
i felt so dumb about the reading thing and one of the new pitches at aa is that
Rachel Casey (00:32:41):
they wanted to develop a big book that was at a fifth grade reading level because
Rachel Casey (00:32:44):
there's a lot of people that get sober and it's okay i wasn't at fifth grade but i
Rachel Casey (00:32:53):
can understand how that would feel
Rachel Casey (00:32:57):
If you're not able to read and they vetoed it.
Rachel Casey (00:33:00):
Cause they're like, nothing can change.
Julie Fontes (00:33:02):
Everything must stay the same.
Julie Fontes (00:33:03):
That's part of one of the things that did turn me off is because I am so bookish.
Julie Fontes (00:33:08):
I did try to read the big book once and I feel like you shouldn't feel ashamed
Julie Fontes (00:33:14):
about not being able to read it because it's very unreadable.
Colin Casey (00:33:19):
Yeah.
Colin Casey (00:33:19):
And the terminology.
Rachel Casey (00:33:22):
So I break down the big book.
Rachel Casey (00:33:24):
I've done a lot of studies in making it in my terms and sharing that once I've
Rachel Casey (00:33:33):
heard Bill speak,
Rachel Casey (00:33:35):
you get a bit more of,
Rachel Casey (00:33:36):
I mean,
Rachel Casey (00:33:36):
he was a stockbroker.
Rachel Casey (00:33:37):
He wasn't a writer.
Rachel Casey (00:33:38):
This is also 1920s.
Rachel Casey (00:33:39):
He wasn't talking about women.
Rachel Casey (00:33:41):
That's why there's the whole chapter to the wives.
Rachel Casey (00:33:44):
That's the only chapter I really don't like.
Rachel Casey (00:33:47):
Cause I'm reading it and I'm like,
Rachel Casey (00:33:49):
you guys make it sound like all the women are just victims to their,
Rachel Casey (00:33:54):
not nagging,
Rachel Casey (00:33:55):
but like you're not in the role that he talks about.
Rachel Casey (00:33:58):
You're gonna have to let your husband go to the meetings and recover.
Rachel Casey (00:34:01):
You can't ask him to stay at home.
Rachel Casey (00:34:03):
And I'm like, God.
Colin Casey (00:34:05):
Or the, the one where you have to bring a drunk to your house and let them sleep on the couch.
Colin Casey (00:34:10):
And if you have to fight them, then.
Colin Casey (00:34:14):
You know, and it's like, what?
Rachel Casey (00:34:16):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:34:16):
So it's looking for the similarities that I do understand connecting with another alcoholic.
Rachel Casey (00:34:23):
Definitely.
Rachel Casey (00:34:23):
I think this again,
Rachel Casey (00:34:25):
for where I was at in my life,
Rachel Casey (00:34:27):
the community is something I needed to get me to the next step of alcohol free.
Rachel Casey (00:34:33):
I don't think I would have survived on my own.
Julie Fontes (00:34:35):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:34:36):
That makes total sense.
Rachel Casey (00:34:38):
Well, is there anything else you'd like to share, promote?
Rachel Casey (00:34:43):
Like I said, I'm going to put it in the show notes and the book is like a normal person.
Rachel Casey (00:34:48):
And I see it's behind you.
Rachel Casey (00:34:49):
I wanted to have a cover to show.
Julie Fontes (00:34:53):
I'll show it.
Rachel Casey (00:34:54):
Isn't it cute?
Rachel Casey (00:34:55):
I love the color.
Colin Casey (00:34:56):
Definitely grabs your attention.
Rachel Casey (00:34:58):
And I think the drawn hand art is really, I tried to do that with our first one with synergy.
Rachel Casey (00:35:03):
We had the outlines because I love that look.
Rachel Casey (00:35:06):
Yeah, but my artist is great.
Rachel Casey (00:35:08):
She's it's, that's so cool.
Rachel Casey (00:35:11):
And, um, well, we, we really, really appreciate you being our first guest for having me.
Colin Casey (00:35:18):
Well, thank you for helping me.
Rachel Casey (00:35:20):
Thank you again.
Rachel Casey (00:35:21):
And make sure to check out, we'll put her link for the website as well as the sub stack.
Rachel Casey (00:35:26):
The sub stack's great.
Rachel Casey (00:35:27):
I follow her on sub stack.
Rachel Casey (00:35:28):
Okay.
Rachel Casey (00:35:28):
We'll just say thank you for listening to sober banter and thank you, Julie, for joining us.
Colin Casey (00:35:33):
Thank you, Julie.
Colin Casey (00:35:33):
Thank you.
Rachel Casey (00:35:34):
We hope you have a good rest of your day.