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The Laws of War and Peace with Rav Shlomo Katz is a series based on Hilchos Milchamah VeShalom by Rav Shmuel Eliyahu, opening up the Torah of מלחמה ושלום for the times we are living in right now.
In these episodes, Rav Shlomo explores the halachic, biblical, and inner spiritual foundations of war, courage, national responsibility, emunah, and redemption. Through the lens of Tanach, Chazal, and the living reality of Am Yisrael, this series asks: How is a Jew meant to think, feel, pray, and act in a time of מלחמה? What does true gevurah look like? How do we fight evil without losing humility? And how do war, mesirus nefesh, and miracles become part of the unfolding geulah?
You know, let's sing this niggun. This niggun is I want to dedicate it for the Refuah Shlema of my dear brother, our dear brother Yehonatan Razel. Baruch Hashem, he is doing better, but scared the daylight out of all of us, the tikshoret scared the daylights out of all of us earlier this week. And he loves this niggun.
הנה ימים באים נאום השם והשלחתי רעב בארץ לא רעב ללחם ולא צמא למים כי אם לשמוע את דברי השם. Continue learning this whole week l'iluy nishmas my aunt Chava Yitta bas Chaim zayin lamed ben Yitzchak HaKohen.
תהא נשמתה צרורה בצרור החיים. Amen.
Chevra, we have what we're learning today, if you think that the stuff on Monday and last week was gonna stir you up, this is gonna stir you up even more. However, as a hakdama, like we did with last things as well, we're here to learn a sugya, we're not here to form opinions and we're not here to share what we think about people that aren't doing what we think they should be doing. Imagine people going to a shiur Torah like that and that's with that headspace and then they approach a learning. Zeh gass.
Zeh gass, zeh chitzoni. Which be'emes Rav Elyahu has prepared for us the sugyot inside to understand על פי דברי תורה, al pi Rishonim, al pi Achronim, what the what the issue is at hand. Now obviously you know what the assumption of today's topic will be just by seeing the title. But we have to learn it inside.
זה מאוד מאוד מאוד חשוב to learn these things inside. That's what we're doing here. It's very easy to not learn it inside and feel very good about our opinions. That doesn't, that's not what we're doing here.
We're trying be'emes what we call, someone would even call this libun halacha. Libun halacha which is to really, to really take pesukim, understand it, implement them and practically see where is it today in our lives. There are a lot of hakdamot we could do for today. I'm probably just gonna go right, right inside to the topic which is the hottest topic on the table today, which is the giyus bachurei yeshivot, which is drafting people that are learning Torah.
Just saying that is already, it's amazing. Look at your faces, you know, it's wondering I don't want to look at the other person, what does he think? And yeah Dani, next time bring the... So let's let's learn this inside. Let's learn it inside.
Wow, I'm really biting my tongue today. This is good. This is good. It's very good.
Yossi will get it out of me anyway, it doesn't matter, so I'm not so nervous. Good to know we're not learning anything controversial. The sad thing is, that's my point, is that the saddest thing in the world is that it's controversial. Zeh hurban.
That's really a destruction. Zeh atzuv. And hopefully we will we will make it not controversial one day with the proper leadership and the proper ruah mitokh haam. Amen.
Amen. Half of you have children here that are in the army or that have been in the army and the other half will have have children that will be in the army. These are very delicate delicate things that we're speaking about. And I just give us a brakha that as we're learning our ahavat Yisrael doesn't diminish.
Amen. Because that's obviously a very clear and present danger when you learn these types of things. Okay. Giyus bachurei yeshivot.
מנין יוצאי הצבא בישראל הוא גודל עם ישראל.
אחת הסוגיות החשובות שדנים בה בדורנו היא האם לומדי תורה צריכים להתגייס למלחמת ישראל מיד הצר הצורר עליהם. This is one of the most hot topics. Should people that are studying learning learning Torah go out to war? What type of war?
מיד הצר הצורר עליהם.
Meaning a war, an active war. I don't know when it's not been an active war here. That's that's also one of the shaylot we have. But definitely with what's what's about the the the times that we're in right now.
Well let's learn.
בספר במדבר אנו רואים את בני ישראל מסתדרים סביב המשכן ונמנים מבן עשרים שנה ומעלה כל יוצא צבא בישראל תפקדו אותם לצבאותם אתה ואהרן. What does this mean? And we were camped in the desert surrounding the Mishkan. All those that were 20 years above of age כל יוצא צבא בישראל those that go out to war be Yisrael are counted for their legions Aharon and Moshe have to count them.
What is kol yotzei tzava, those that go out to war? Rashi masbir kipshuto. Rashi is just saying exactly what the pshat means. Those that have to go out to war.
מבן עשרים שנה ומעלה.
לכן אין במספר הזה נשים וילדים וכהנים. That's why you don't cla include in this number women, children, and kohanim and within the kohanim obviously the Levi'im that they don't go out to war. That's not what they're supposed to be doing.
שהרי הם לא יוצאים למלחמה.
גם הרמב"ן שם מסביר את הטעם לפי רש"י. So the Ramban is going to explain al pi Rashi who what is this inyan of כל יוצא צבא בישראל.
בעבור שאינו חזק למלחמה בפחות מעשרים. Because to be a warrior at that time, you could say till today too, it doesn't really matter, but at that I don't know what the average age of draft is in other countries.
Does anyone know? 18. 18. Other countries too? Yeah, American American army? 18 to 20. So here is saying 20 is the before 20 the Ramban says you're not strong enough to be a to be a warrior.
Ukhemo she'amru like it says in the Mishna in Avot ben esrim lirdof. Right? You have all the ages בן זה לזה בן זה לזה ben esrim lirdof to be able to go out you have to be 20 years old אבל ייתכן שיהיה פירוש כל יוצא צבא כל היוצאים להיקהל בעדה. But it could be the Ramban says that all those that are going out to war really means all those that are coming to congregate to be a part of the eda. So what would be the difference between the two perushim that the Ramban said? Voting age and draft age.
Yeah, literally voting age and draft age. Those that are nikhalim ba'eda it doesn't really listen lema'aseh it doesn't matter because all we're talking about here is a difference of let's say two years max. Right? Now, this is where it gets more barukh Hashem more emotional.
רש"י הראשון בספר במדבר we just learned this Bemidbar masbir כי כל המניין הזה this whole counting that we have the census in the beginning of Bemidbar נועד להשראת שכינה בישראל.
It was there in order to bring the Shekhina to reside over the am over Mahaneh Yisrael. Like Rashi tells us כשבא להשרות שכינתו עליהם מנאן. When he wants the when Hashem wants to come and bring his Shekhina to dwell over Am Yisrael, there's a minyan. He counts them.
It seems that the counting that the hashra'at hashekhina is taluy on the counting. That's according to Rashi. That's what it seems like.
כך נאמר בסיום מנין יוצאי הצבא ושבט לוי.
This is what's said at the end of the census of those that are going out to war and the tribe of Levi. Like it says over here.
ובבא משה אל אהל מועד לדבר אתו. After he did all the counting, Moshe Rabbeinu comes to the Ohel Moed to talk to Hashem: וישמע את הקול מדבר אליו.
Without getting into that drasha, he hears the voice speaking to him מעל הכפרת אשר על ארן העדת מבין שני הכרבים וידבר אליו. He hears the voice, hears the voice coming from above bein shnei hakruvim, he hears the calling. This is how the end of the census works, and how do we know that this adds up to what we're saying? Because this ke'ilu perfected the inyan of השראת השכינה בתוך העם. After this census of counting all those that went out to war and the tribe of Levi, now Moshe Rabbeinu is able to have this again one-and-one conversation which we don't understand at all what that exactly means, and even the pshat of the pasuk makes it very difficult for us like I alluded to with emphasizing the word midaber elav, the mefarshim have a field trip with this.
What does this exactly mean? But for the context of our learning, it means like this: Census, order, army, everything in its right place seems to be the gate-opener for the leader to be able to receive the counsel that he needs to receive, for the leadership, Moshe Rabbeinu to be able to conduct am and be a menatzeach, not just victorious, but you know that in Hebrew menatzeach is a conductor, right? Amenatzeach, right? Lamenatzeach, right? Yonatan, he's a master conductor, if you don't know if you ever saw him. You ever see him what like a Philharmonic or something, it's amazing. He is a conductor. Okay.
כיוון שהתורה קשרה את השראת השכינה למנין וסידור אנשי הצבא במחנות.
למדנו כי אותה השראת שכינה שיש במחנה הלוחמים נמצאת גם במחנה כלל ישראל בזכותם. Keyword for the rest of the shiur. What did Rav Eliyahu say? What does the word bizchutam teach us? In the merit of who? Of the fighters.
Of the fighters that were counted, that were put together. Nachon. The Shechina didn't just stay in the machaneh of the lochamiim, in the zechut of the fighters, the Shechina also then would go onto the rest of the machaneh Klal Yisrael. Well there also wouldn't be a rest of the machaneh if there was no fighters.
Oh. Here he's starting. Here he's starting. He had to dig it in already over here.
Yes, what would you like to say? It's not it's not even about survival, it's the mesirus nefesh of the soldiers that brings the Shechina. Their metzius, their willingness that our boys and girls of 18 and 19 and 20 that are willing, like Rebbe is saying, to even have a voice, to even be there in this place, that willingness zeh madhim. Zeh madhim. That produces the Shechina.
This produces the Shechina to reside over Klal Yisrael. It's interesting because the other approach is that the Torah learning is what brings the Shechina, brings the protection, but here you're saying it's actually the complete opposite. Not opposite. Not opposite.
Also. Also, maybe. Here he's not even touching upon this subject and I think maybe it could be as follows: is that when you're in a state of wilderness and war, the avodah is to fight. So right now to bring he's not saying this yet, yet, he will get to this, but maybe what he's saying is at the time of war and the Shechina needs to reside amongst Machaneh Yisrael, the Shechina will reside amongst the machaneh of mesirus nefesh.
And in the zechut of the machaneh of mesirus nefesh, you'll go out to there. So we're jumping ahead. I ketanya that my learning is mesirus nefesh for Klal Yisrael. Just putting it out there, okay? I'm just stam throwing it out there in the air.
Okay. Now, we have an inyan here. Why wasn't Shevet Levi counted? The Kohanim can I I can understand. Why could I understand why a Kohen isn't drafted into the war? Why shouldn't a Kohen go? Because he can't be a Kohen if he has any, even if he does holy things, holy things that are holy for Klal Yisrael, the Kohen then can't be a Kohen.
And also he's doing... sherut leumi so to speak. But that open, so that, you just contradicted yourself, because that could use, that could be the same tayna that others could use. They're learning is...
They could. I'm not, I'm stam playing devil's advocate. They could say the same thing. And in fact, in fact, in the beginning of the war, that was actually one of the statements that were used by one of the chief rabbis that put a dagger in my heart, and in many other people's hearts, where they include, where basically the tayna was, we're all, we're Shevet Levi.
Meaning the learners are all Shevet Levi, and we're going to understand why Shevet Levi wasn't included in this either. You understand? Ani maksheh alecha just because of explaining where they're coming from. My daughter is in Magav so they have to deal literally with the protests of the wanna-be Shevet Levis. The metziut is I think even the average chiloni in Israel that's not, that's not exactly supporting Lakewood kollels would be okay if there was a Shevet Levi of 10 percent, 20 percent of the actual bachurim that were sitting and horeving all day and were learning.
Everyone would be okay with that. If there was a Shevet Levi just of that. That has nothing to do with the chilul Hashem of... Ah, see we're starting.
I warned everybody. I know, no, I know, obviously, these, especially parents of Magavnikim, this is going to bring out a lot. It's true. Stay with the questions.
100... Ani achi. Listen.
אני אתה יודע איפה אני עומד.
Like... I'm right there with you. But I'm on both. Right.
No one listen. No one really wants, no one with a kop should really want thousands and thousands and thousands of Yeshiva bachurim getting guns and going to protect us in the front lines. If you have a kop, that's if you have a brain, that's not exactly what you want. You want it to be a consensus of the klal that knows how to work in the proper way.
And sometimes you do find once in a while some very honest, sincere people, chevre that are in the world of Torah that actually think and they're like, whoa, wait. Wait a second. I actually, I'm not sure if that's what I want. So what do you want? You want shutfut hagoral.
That's what you want. That's what we want. Shutfut hagoral. I don't know how to say that in English.
Collective destiny. Bearing the burden. Like whatever that means. Yeah, whatever that means exactly.
Partnership. Shutfut hagoral. It's like there's a goral here. That's what we want.
How it gets interpreted is already a different sugya that with the Shechinah residing over the leadership, i.e. lemoshel, Moshe Rabbeinu, the end of over here, וישמע את הקול מדבר אליו, it'd be possible to get some direction. How does the leadership of the school of thought that they shouldn't get conscripted, how would they feel to learn a sefer like this that's saying the Shechinah's not residing with you because it's residing with the soldiers? Like, I mean, it's clearly not residing with the people that are... Well obviously this wouldn't be the sefer that needs to be taught there.
It has to be different. You have to malbish it in a way be-ofen like the Rebbe would always say, famous two words, and I love these words of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, be-ofen hamitkabel. He would say be-ofen hamiskabel, right? In a way that could be, in a way that could be received. Just to tell someone something because you know it's the emes, when you know that if you could say it in a different way, it could be received, but you're adamant on it being you, zeh lo yelech.
I'll give you an example. Mitzvat tochecha, you can't give it in a way that... bidiyuk. I'll give you a stupid example, a shallow example.
You know how I... I daven with a sof, right? With a sof. I didn't grow up like that. My brother also davens with a sof.
We didn't grow up like that. We grew up נוסח הברה עברית ספרדית, right? That was what it was. It's just that I never had a teacher that spoke like that or davened like that that turned me on to, what's that thing? God, with that havarah until Reb Shlomo came and exploded my kishkas and it's not, I'm not davka being like it's just that for me. Now, I have friends and you probably fall into this category that it's afuch.
That actually the sof chinuch bechlal didn't speak to them and they adopted a tof. Now if I'm going to go and speak to Chaim Meir Vishnitzer about these inyanim and I'm madgish tof, tof, tof... ma zeh, it's stam, it's davka ke-ilu sounding. It has to sound...
it has to sound from the... like the Alter Heim. It has to sound like, you know, like that. Like I had a friend, I couldn't believe, this guy from, I was driving once up to Tzfat for Shabbos.
And I kept on saying, and I was with two guys from Bat Ayin. And one of them was saying, one, and one of them was bechlal, you can't put him in any machaneh, Bar-Ya, he was here a few months ago. And one of them, not going to say his name, he, you could tell, I wasn't sure how he grew up. But every time I kept on saying I can't wait to get to Tzfas, he got so, it got him so angry.
He was like, tsk, the whole drive, he kept on tsk, stop. Tzfat. Why are you saying Tzfas? So I'm like, I don't know, it just, for me it's lo yodea ma. So you have to be, what's, what's the point of what I'm trying to say, besides it's stam, it's cute, and it's shtuyot? I'll tell you though, sometimes actually when I daven and I want to be like a little kid again, I do say in shmoneh esrei ברוך אתה השם אלוקינו ואלוקי אבותינו.
I like, actually say it like that a little bit when I think too much and trying to mechaven. But whatever, each person has to get their own nosach going whatever works for them. I do the opposite. You do the opposite? Yeah, yeah.
Sometimes I find myself going to the opposite.
בינינו לבין עצמנו זה לא משנה. But when you want to bring this stuff out to someone out there, like you're saying, it has to be, you're not gonna bring them, you're not gonna give them a book Hilchos Milchama VeShalom and go sit down in the Belz Bais Medrash and give this over. Isn't Rav Shmuel Eliyahu, who is the Rav Rashi of Tzfat? Tzfat, yeah, yeah, of course.
So isn't he in that machaneh? No, I don't know. No, no, no. You could be a Rav Rashi of a city in Israel without being part of, you know Reb Shlomo, Reb Shlomo turned over to Taff, for like in 1969, '70. He changed over from the first five or six albums were all Saff, and then he really was here a lot.
And my father, my father recorded with him an album in '69 that was in, he switched to Taff for like a few albums it was Taff and then he went back to Saff. But I have my, stam, sorry for the confusion, my brother's father-in-law is also a musician. And he told me that when Reb Shlomo changed, lehavdil, it's like the people that went nuts when Dylan went electric. You were thinking, I'm sure you were, right? When Dylan, like I don't, we don't have a musagim of these things.
Eli, do you remember when Dylan went electric? It was weird. It was weird, right? He had to express it the way he had to express it. But even my brother's father-in-law said it was very hard for them to hear, to hear such, בואי בואי בשלום עטרת בעלה. That's how he would sing it.
בואי בשלום עטרת בעלה. It wasn't, those, those, all those album songs, Ve-Ha'er Eineinu, they're all in Ivrit. Every door he needs, we need, needs to hear it in a certain way. Now, you do have these gevaldig Chassidish boys.
Like one of them is, blown me away. This guy Mendel Roth. You know Mendel Roth? Have you heard of him? Mendel Rat-ta? Have you heard of him? In Chashmonaim. Shemesh Emunim.
This guy is a Chassidish Yid. He's a baki in Mei Shiloach inside out also. The young guy. We're shtickle buddies.
And he is flipping things over in his machaneh. Flipping things over in his machaneh. It's a bit more, you know, that's more in your face. It's gotta be in a way that, then when the people would come to the Rebbe standing on line, he would speak to them in Russian, in French, in Yiddish, in English, in Hebrew, in Ivrit.
We have to find a way that if we want to say these things over, you got to actually sound like them. Don't push your trip, your taff trip on them. No one wins. Huh? You said something? Saff luck.
Saff luck. Touché. We could keep on going all day like this. Petach.
Now we're going out of it. Shlomo, חנוך לנער על פי דרכו. I mean, al pi, yeah, yeah. Al pi darko.
Nachon. Nachon me'od. Yofi. Now let's go back inside.
So what's the din of Shevet Levi? Now this is interesting. How come Levi? Kohen I can understand, and if you want to say that Kohen means Levi, then I can understand it too. But already here we already have, it seems to be, the chalukah of Bnei Aharon. And Shevet Levi.
Shevet Levi were thoroughly are thoroughly discussed in half the parshiyos in Sefer Bamidbar, nachon? So what's the inyan of Shevet Levi?
מי שלא נמנה בחשבון יוצאי צבא הם בני שבט לוי. They're not included in the counting of those that go out to war, שנמנו במניין מיוחד מבן חודש ומעלה. Their census begins in a special census from a month old. Remember yotzei tzava, what is it?
מבן עשרים שנה ומעלה.
Shevet Levi has a census that begins at a month old.
כך מביא הרמב"ם בסוף הלכות שמיטה ויובל. Velama lo za... so the Rambam says over here ולמה לא זכה לוי בנחלת ארץ ישראל ובביזה עם אחיו? How come the tribe of Levi wasn't didn't merit to have an actual portion of the land and bizata? What does bizata mean? Booty.
Collecting the loot that was we did when we when we conquered the land.
מפני שהובדל לעבוד את ה' לשרתו ולהורות דרכיו הישרים ומשפטיו הצדיקים לרבים שנאמר יורו משפטיך ליעקב ותורתך לישראל לפיכך הובדלו מדרכי העולם לא עורכין מלחמה כשאר ישראל לא נוחלין ולא זוכין לעצמם בכוח גופם אלא הם חיל ה' שנאמר ברך ה' חילו והוא ברוך הוא זוכה להם שנאמר אני חלקך ונחלתך. What did the Rambam just tell us over here? It's actually a very strange description. I heard a shiur from Rav Asher Weiss about this recently.
I think it was Rav Asher Weiss. Think about what a Levi felt. Did a Levi feel privileged or nebby? Think about this for a second. What did a Levi feel back then? Did he feel privileged or did he feel a shtikel nebby? I would hope so, for sure it was zeh vezeh.
Yeah, no nachala, no land. Think about it. Maybe it also depends on what's going on in in that moment. If they have the rest of the nation's out at war and they're sitting back, it was very hard for them.
Even even not even, right, but even not during war. Leave let's say not during war. What did a Levi feel about his place in this world? He's put outside the community. But he's counted from a month old.
What's that? You don't have a place. It's it's interesting. On the one hand, your census begins meaning you're counted, you're included, you're put into a group from when? Miben chodesh vamala. But on the other hand, that may be true on a level of like time, but on space, he doesn't have any space.
The Shevet Levi is fascinating. Mamash fascinating. So this so the Rambam's saying over here their inyan is something else. Now what is their inyan? If it's not to fight, then what is their inyan according to the Rambam? What is he saying? Teaching.
They're supposed to be the teachers in Am Yisrael. Now you understand why one of the chief rabbis got up in the beginning of the war and said what he said that we're all bnei Levi. Now why did that why did that drive people crazy? Because the Hesder rabbonim are not bnei Levi? And those chayalim that are learning for smicha are not they're not bnei Levi? You know see it's a very... Sorry? He draws a wedge.
Yeah, a big one. Zeh lo pashut to say these kind of statements. There's also a difference between Levi going out and teaching others and people who are being secluded and just learning among themselves too. Uh-huh, nachon? Your your question about how do you think bnei Levi felt is a is a powerful question which made me think that that might have been a little bit of the explanation why they were so reluctant specifically bnei Levi to return upon the call of Ezra because wherever they were in golus they had they were like everybody else, they had their houses, they had the piece of whatever shetach, whatever whatever everybody had they had.
To go back meant I have to go back to being the guy that's looking for a can I crash at your can I crash at your pad tonight. Yeah, very very chazak. Very good. Yeah Shmuel.
זה יותר חזק שישמעו אותך מאחורה. What's that? Just to speak louder so that you hear it in the back. Okay. So recently we've we've been talking about Amalek and the idea of Amalek and it's it's a concept and we're using it as an analogy or is it is it actually mamash a din on a certain people, right? But here it seems weird to me that we're talking about...
shvatim and shevet levi, and then immediately we're turning that into an analogy of certain people who do certain things or wear certain clothes can say, I'm in that concept of Levi. But we actually know who are Leviim. That's an actual thing. We know who's Yisroel, we know who's Levi.
So how can you say you're something where we actually know what those people are? I think you're asking me? Yeah. How do they turn something into an analogy? You have to ask them. I'm presenting the meivin that I'm not presenting... no, no, no, no.
But no, but this is a very, it's very good what you're saying, meaning I don't have an answer for, I will never have an answer for that question. I think the answer is very clear, whether you agree with it or not, but the answer is clear. It describes why the Leviim are exempt. They have a tafkid, meshares et Hashem.
We don't have a Beis HaMikdash, we don't have the tafkid of Leviim. Those who are doing the equivalent is their taina, are, that's... I'm not saying... You're both saying the same thing, meaning you're both saying the same thing.
It's, yeah, ken ken ken. Hakol beseder. The answer is clear, whether we agree or not. And now Sammy...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but to say we have a genealogy of being the Levi today... Yeah, but they're saying the Leviim today don't have that function. Right. But Shmuel, Danny gave the best pshat.
You can identify however you want as a Levi. I'm actually you. Okay, now let's learn one more piece. One more piece for today.
You'd be saying tsap if you were tsap. Nachon. It's sad to say that what this Rav was saying when he was saying that these people are considering themselves Shevet Levi is not necessarily that they're viewing themselves as teachers, but rather that they're viewing themselves as people, or he would say if they were to view themselves with the achrayus that the Leviim took on and not necessarily that they view themselves as teachers because I think from my perspective... What's the difference? The difference is the achrayus that people take on in their role and what they're doing for Am Yisrael.
But that's such a dagger in the hearts of hundreds of thousands of people that say the same thing about themselves and yet find themselves in that hakol yotzim lamilchama that they realize we're in a sakana kiyumit, you gotta go out and fight. So what are we saying about them? Right? You just have to look at the text here. The text says, it's a quote, and it's not the Rav, it's not Rav Elyashiv. The Rambam.
Right, he's saying מפני שהובדל לעבוד את השם לשרתו ולהורות. That's what they claim. Okay, but that's what the... but that's what the people in this room that went out to...
guys, listen, I'm just going to say like this, Sholom, you experienced the worst first year of a gevalt kollel. Why? Why? Because a bunch of guys... Because half the guys that had every taina to say I put myself in Shevet Levi al pi the Rambam the way that it is, so of course I'm not going to go out. You see it...
We also haven't like touched on the fact that Shevet Levi, every time I think Shevet Levi is mi l'Hashem elai. Okay? They've multiple... It's interesting. Shevet Levi, it's so interesting.
Shevet Levi when we really get introduced to them as like a public figure, they don't seem like the ones that are scared of doing intense things. They're the ones that do one of the most impossible things for us to comprehend, which is to shecht three thousand... okay, if I say Yidden you'll come at me and say they're erev rav. The Torah doesn't call it erev rav.
It calls... the Torah calls it achim. Let's just put it in perspective. Yeah Naftali.
No, I just want to be melamed zchus for a second on acheinu hachareidim. After you went out and shechted them! No, but I had this... emes I have this... my daughter who's in her gap, I have a Rebbe of mine who's a Chareidi Rosh Yeshiva in Lakewood and I speak to him every week.
And he's, he's the biggest ohev Yisrael. His name is Rabbi Katz also ironically. And he's mamish an ohev Yisrael. He's a person who used to come to my office in Toronto to teach off-the-derech guys like myself, you know, to keep us mechubar to Yiddishkeit.
And they are true believers. Meaning, while we're sitting here and learning one sefer, they're also learning their sefarim and they ke'ilu have their... and they're doing it in their minds, l'shem Shamayim. Even the crazy Peleg Yerushalmi guys that are in the streets, you know, throwing stones at my daughter or whatever and spitting on them, they believe as misguided as it is in my opinion that they're doing it l'shem Shamayim.
They really believe that. And they have this sforim and they have ke'ilu their rabanan, and it's just sadly a lack of a lack of leadership. When there was Rav Steinman, I believe, alav hashalom, who was a big Chareiidi Gadol, when he was alive, he paskened, I believe he paskened, that anyone that's not sitting and learning k'mo shetzarich needs to go to the army. Somehow that got lost in translation.
And if there was proper manhigut and gedolim today, they would, if fifty percent of Chareidim went to the army today, I think everyone would be good with that, like everyone, the tzibur. But because there's none of that, there's just a total lack of manhigut. But they are ke'ilu doing it l'shem shamayim. They're sitting in their batei midrash right now while we're learning this and they're learning that, and they have all the sources that tell them that they're doing the right thing.
V'zeh mah shekoev. Including why this is not a milchemes mitzvah. And including why this... No, no, no, really.
Right. And this is why, and they've shown me mekoros why it's not milchemes mitzvah. Neturei Karta also has a major problem here. Yeah, but the Neturei Karta are very fringe.
This is not very fringe. No, no, no, yesh po ba'ayos. Listen. It's good to, we always should...
Rebbe Nachman, I was talking about this with Meir yesterday. There's a reason why Rebbe Nachman said that you have to walk with azamra, with the teaching Reish-Pey-Beis every single day in your life. You always have to walk with it in your life. What does that mean you have to live with it? Is that human nature is to not azamra people.
Human nature, azamra means finding the nekudos tovos in people. Human nature is to basically try to be in self-defense mode all the time, which means that half the time when self-defense mode means that in order to justify why I believe what I believe, I have to prove why you're wrong. Now, that's why you have to have that anti all the time because you'll be left completely alone even if you're so right about everything. That's aleph-beis.
The main difference here is azoy. You either believe that staying alive is a value or not. What do I mean by that? No one sane, no real daas Torah for one second belittles any ounce of learning Torah. Lehafech, real daas Torah looks at every ounce of learning Torah and holds it in the highest place in the world.
Ela mai, you either understand the mahalach, you either understand the metzius on the shetach that we're surrounded by Amalek that are trying to kill us or you don't. Pashut me'od. So I could still have the nekudos tovos like on what you're saying and it's true, and a hundred percent it's true, not on all of them, but on a chunk of them, a huge chunk of them. However, while we're debating that, there's Amalek, and Amalek needs to be wiped out because if not, guess who won't have the opportunity to like do a libun halacha of the Rambam? You and I, because we'll be six feet under, chas v'shalom.
And that's the headspace that still for some reason is not clear to many people that are holding from a different machaneh, that don't understand the clear and present danger. They just don't get this. It's most of the frum world. They don't understand this.
So therefore... listen, there's a bunch of hands up again. I can't keep on going back and forth here, but I just want to say like this: while we're learning this very sensitive subject, a hundred percent there'll be a lot of things that are going to be coming up over here. Our point is not to come to mechazek the maskanos that we already have.
Zeh lo zeh. It's to really be able to think about what we think, the way we think, but to be open to saying well how do the Rishonim understand the pesukim? Because everything we're trying to say is what's the Torah telling us, not what do my kishkes tell me. What is the Torah telling me? Now, it's true, Naftali is saying something very true. You could have another sefer that's called Hilchos Milchamah v'Shalom that's written in a different beis midrash that may sound completely not like this.
It's like I remember how messed up I got when I got my first like non-Zionist book, when I read my first non-Zionist Torah book. And it really challenged everything I grew up on. And it was very hard, it was very, very hard, but I'm so thankful that I did it. Everyone here should be learning Vayoel Moshe.
Everyone should be, I think, everyone should be learning the Satmar Rebbe's Torah behind why he came to what he came from. Not because we're looking for a derech, but you really want to understand the pnimiyus of things, you have to go and see what... What is being said out there that's not just from the machaneh that I already know. It's like I look at these alonei shabbat.
I could finish every paragraph of every single dvar torah every single week after reading like the first three lines. It's the same thing. It's just the same thing over and over. And I guess people need it.
Beseder. It's like someone came here, someone had a meeting with me a few months ago and said: "I have a very big problem with you." I'm like: "Okay, give us a list." He said: "Why is it that you only bring here to the shul figures that don't represent our values?" I said: "Really, what's that?" He said: "Well, the ones that aren't pushing, they're not coming out against... they're not coming out and saying everyone should be drafted." I said: "That's the whole value? Like that defines a whole value of a person?" I said, he was referring obviously to a lot of the chasidishe rebbe's that have been in our shul and other figures as well. I said to him: "If you could bring me someone that can turn on hearts from this tzibur, our tzibur, the way that these guys are, they'll be before them.
So let's start putting a list together." We sat in the office for half an hour and barely got through one or two names. I look at the wall in my room, in the office, I look again, I'm seeing all the mashpi'im that put me on fire. They're not saying... they're not saying hallel on Yom Ha'atzmaut, okay? We have to be that bridge.
Our tzibur has to be that bridge. We have to, this is our job.
על פי דעת תורה, this is our job. I really believe in it with all my heart.
It's not to repeat the same things that we grew up on and everyone knew already. It's to be that middle voice. And maybe, I believe and... listen, I see some of these chasidishe chevre, they're coming to sit here and a lot of the underground chevre that would never come here but write me, I hope he's okay, I'm not going to say his name, I got a text before shabbos from someone I never met before.
It looks like it's Monsey. But I saw from the profile picture, heimishe, you know, a real chasidishe guy. And he started saying to me: "I came across one of the shiurim on Spotify whatever." He said: "Can you tell me what... I want to start learning Rav Kook, what piece should I start learning?" You know how many of these kind of guys have been going to Rav Weinberger for years already? So something's happening mitachas lashetach.
Something's happening already. It's already there. It's happening. Tzrichim savlanut and tzrichim ahavat chinam.
That's the hardest thing. Because when you see images of what happened in the protest two days ago, it's very, very hard to keep the ahavat chinam when you see certain things that the media makes sure they want you to see about other yidden. Yeah, but that's the nekuda for me. It's not about being necessarily a rabble-rouser.
Really, I think about this, it's like how do I mechanech my children? What message am I sending? What am I talking about? When we speak about Amalek and wiping out, like you might have a real point, but like oh my gosh, are you that guy? Are you going to speak that way to your kids? Are you like that angry? You want to be a lover, not a hater. So I have to go through this type of birur with all stuff like how it is I want to educate my kids to hear. Do I really want them hearing me say that? It could be that davka yes. On this, my daughter coming home from the army from Hermon on her way to visit a necheh soldier and she's postponed for hours because of a chareidi protest.
And she came in my house, was up in arms over this. I'm saying, and I don't know if your daughter, she's fine with it, maybe she gets spit on... No, she's not fine with it, no. She comes home, she comes home, she's a girl who says: "I want to go to Shirat David on Friday night and sing and has some Torah in her" and she's a nice girl, but is angry and saying things like "I hate them." And I'm sitting there and my wife and I are sitting there saying: "This is really dangerous.
This is really a trick. This is not the message I want them to have. I don't know what message I need to be able to try to give over to help fix this, to help try to balance this. I don't even at this point I don't even care like who's right or wrong.
I just need there to be like a darchei... kind of shalom. This isn't healthy. And this is a real metzius that's happening in my life and I'm sure others, it's just real what we're dealing with." Put it like this, if not, if you don't share the sentiment that Yossi shared, whether your children are or not in the army, you gotta go to a doctor, because everyone should be, everyone should be crying over what you just said right now.
This is the nekuda. 100 percent. That's why I want to repeat, we're not learning here things to strengthen... our own conviction.
It's got to be that our learning should be l'shem shamayim, which if it's l'shem shamayim, it has to result in ahavas chinam. Learning l'shem shamayim has to produce more ahavas chinam. It can't be I learn l'shem shamayim and now I feel even stronger about what I felt before I was learning, and now I'm gonna come at you even stronger. There's no there's no clear answer to what you're really asking, aside from begging the charedi leadership, begging the charedi leadership to realize that this way is leading to a much worse churban than whatever churban you think the gezeira of a giyus would lead to.
I do have an eitza for you though personally, to discuss this with someone who you hold very dear who doesn't hold like this. And ask him because you you go to him for eitzas, you learn by him every week, and he's a tzadik gadol, and that's who the conversation should be with. That's in my opinion. It's not with us.
We all this is all the same pachot o yoter the same machaneh. It's davka to go to someone that you know does not hold like this. Eliya. So, I don't want to I don't want to sort of drag Rav Asher into it, but I'm going to drag Rav Asher into it.
And he's certainly got charedi cred, nobody but his in his minyanim they said the prayer for the soldiers. And many of his chasidim fought and came and came from from the old guard, and they fought in the first wars and so on. You go next door and you could get spit on, right, if you were in a uniform. It was really interesting when you read his what people wrote down from his sichos and so on, he calls the chayalim kedoshim and tzadikim.
There's there's something one of my best friends over there was a Satmar guy. Yeah. He called me the Tzioni. We didn't agree on anything, but we loved each other so strong, because we realized there's just something else going on.
There's something I don't want to say bigger because this is a big inyan, but there's something deeper when that that kept us all together. That was the one when I when I went to Rav Asher and I sat in the first meeting I sat and he wanted me to see what was going on there. And they had literally Belz, Satmar, Chabad, Shomer Hatzair and Chilonim in the same room, right? And I'm like, I don't understand this. Tell me what's going on with you guys.
And they said we don't we don't agree on anything. And so and so you argue? He says Rav Asher said we should argue. But you don't don't kill each other, just argue. And but you you're working on a chesed, you're working on something else, there's something else that you find that unites you.
And when you focus on that, and there's plenty that that unites. But it gets lost in the shuffle, the media certainly isn't going to bring it up. No. It's up to us.
No. That's up to us. It's up to us. It's our machaneh.
And it can be done. And you see what you can build. So you have to be you have to be open to be being vulnerable when things are pointed out to us that like, oh, this maybe be this may be an issue. We'll end with this.
This is going to stir you up, I know it will. You know one of the quietest times in shuls on Shabbos morning? Like the most quiet time? When do you think it is? The rav's d'rasha. Halevai. Me'she'beirach? Me'she'beirach? No, it's loud and it's good, I like it like that.
Me'she'beirach for the cholim? Me'she'beirach for the cholim?
אבינו שבשמים מי שברך לחיילי צהל. You think that's beautiful? What do you guys think? That's the quietest time in shul. Is that beautiful or not? Makes sense. Why? Because everyone here feels very connected to to that.
Because it's like family. I'm not asking if it makes sense, I asked is it beautiful or not? It's terrible, it's from the just that's the way that that people grew up where especially in other shuls there's talking the whole time, and then it comes to the Me'she'beirach and usually it's the rav of the kehillah in in chutz, who gets up and says it, and so there's like some semblance of kavod harav that's that rises up in that moment. Here it's not. In Eretz Yisrael it's not.
And still in Eretz Yisrael, that's the quietest time during davening. I'm going to ask again because everyone is embarrassed to admit that you know what the answer is. Is that beautiful that that's the quietest time that yes and no? Exactly. Yes and no.
And in the heart of the erliche charedi guy. That comes to shul, to our shuls, and sees chevra going out for drinks and l'chaim Kiddush clubs, and but he'll stand like this for מי שברך לחיילי צה"ל, he's like this is not, this is not what it's about. Kriat hatorah, everyone's shmoozing in and out. Avinu shebashamayim, everyone's quiet.
Chuppas the same thing, shmoozing all Chuppa, the Rav's trying to give over Torah, niggunim, this and that.
מי שברך לחיילי צה"ל, absolute silence, everyone gets up and they're quiet. You understand I'm playing devil's advocate over here, meaning of course everyone should be silent and they should do like Pesach does and says amen five times during the Misheberach. It's of course we're in a milchama, of course it should be silent.
You know what else should be silent when Hashem's talking to us during Kriat hatorah? You know what else shouldn't? People shouldn't be going out drinking alcohol between aliyas. So again, figure out what's going on. Like figure out what you actually want to represent and figure out, be sure that the whole picture of your Yiddishkeit adds up before you're so fast to have tainas on people that when they see this, they're like something doesn't add up over here. But now I'm gonna go back pulling on the other hat, but while Amalek's trying to kill you, don't listen to anybody and go shachtem.
Meaning, shas milchama you'll figure out how to myashev all the stiras once Amalek puts their weapon, falls on their own swords.
בזמן מלחמה הכל יוצא, hakol yotzei. I'm bringing up these things to point out that if we really want to be the real bridge, you have to be vulnerable enough to realize that in your own machaneh, there may be things that aren't so clean yet and you have to clean up shop also over there. You guys still love me? You still like me? Absolutely.
Still like me a little bit? Okay, we'll learn right...