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The Build a Vibrant Culture Podcast brings together amazing leaders, entrepreneurs, and experts to share the successes, challenges, and secrets to living and leading as a VIBRANT Leader.
Tune-in each week as Nicole Greer interviews a new Vibrant Leader.
Email her at nicole@vibrantculture.com
Nicole Greer: [00:00:00] Welcome everybody to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and they call me the Vibrant Coach and I am here with another amazing guest. I have the beautiful, the talented Miss Tara McAlister. Let me tell you all about her. She has 20 years of proven HR expertise. She's an HR advisor with Catapult and excels in employee relations, recruiting, and strategic HR initiatives.
Tara spent over 17 years with a multi specialty medical practice., Core competencies include organizational effectiveness and development, employee relations, performance management, talent reviews, succession planning, employment, employee engagement, and feedback. Well, basically she's done it all and you need to get up with her on the LinkedIn.
She is a dynamic networker. She posts really great stuff that you need to read, listen, or watch. And she is passionate about connecting people and resources to drive success. She's [00:01:00] confident and collaborative and she thrives in diverse settings. She blends autonomy with teamwork to achieve results. And she's an active member of the Union County Chamber.
Let me tell you. Stuff is going on in Union County. I mean Monroe is coming on people. Um, and so she's an active member of the chamber. Go ahead
Tara McAlister: I love my Union County chamber. I absolutely love that group. They are just phenomenal.
Nicole Greer: Yes, they are. I love all those people over there. And she serves as the chair of the ambassador program .Which means she gets everybody motivated to go out and shake hands and kiss babies and get them to join the chamber And she enjoys being with her family and watching sports So, please welcome to the show Tara, I'm so glad you're here.
Tara McAlister: Morning. Good morning. Hi.
Nicole Greer: Yeah. How about, you know, I'm collecting definitions of leadership. I think leadership is so ginormous. Um, and it's always been a passion of mine. Uh, you know, I just, I just think that everything rises and falls on leadership. That's a quote from John Maxwell. So I'm [00:02:00] curious, Tara, you've been in HR for so long, you've been serving the people in the, in the, in the C suite.
Perhaps been in the C suite yourself and then, you know, working with all these managers to get their people to do stuff. So what's your definition of leadership?
Tara McAlister: Well, you know, I don't think a title gives you leadership. You know, I think there's a lot of people that think they get a title and they are automatically leaders.
Um, I think you can be a leader without a title. Um, I think there are leaders that every day help people, empower other people to be great. They not only are accountable for their own actions, but they hold others accountable and they make sure that they have the resources to be able to do whatever it is that leader is hoping that they can do and wanting them to do.
So, I really think a leader, um, is somebody who walks beside the leader. That employee, um, but also shows them by walking ahead of how to model the accountability, how to model the way you communicate with diverse groups. [00:03:00] Um, and I think a part of it is, um, a human piece, a common sense, humility, vulnerability piece that leaders have to have that they know that they're not always going to do it the right way, but they're vulnerable enough and confident enough to say, Hey, that didn't work.
Let's turn it around. Let's try something else. And that to me is, you know, a leader.
Nicole Greer: Yeah, I think that's excellent. Yeah. And, and I don't miss what she said, everybody. Like just because you have a title doesn't mean you're the leader, even though you may have, you know, you're now your name badge says manager or your desk plate says manager.
And I couldn't agree more. And just a quick resource for everybody. Um, uh, I mentioned John Maxwell right when we opened it up. And so I'm a big fan, but he's got a book called the Five Levels of Leadership. And I do a training program around that. And, and, and that's essentially what it says, Tara, is that you have the right to tell people what to do, but it doesn't mean they're going to follow you.
Tara McAlister: Right. You know, and it's, it's [00:04:00] amazing how sometimes people will come into that new leadership role. The first thing when they want to do is tell people what to do, right? I'm going to tell you what to do. And then all of a sudden they look around and they're on the bus by themselves. Um, and it's because nobody really was inspired to follow them, you know, and, and felt empowered or confident enough to follow them.
So that, I think it has a lot to do with how a leader presents themselves to their leader. Employees.
Nicole Greer: Yeah, I, I think so too. So, so that's really interesting. Let's talk about that for a minute though. This idea of presenting yourself to your employees. So what do you, what do you mean when you say that?
Because I think there are, you know, folks listening to the podcast and they're like, I wanna do that. Well, how, how do you do that? Present yourself to the employees, what does that mean, and how do you do it? Well.
Tara McAlister: Well, you know, sometimes it's the simple modeling, like, if you want to encourage your staff to take PTO and completely walk away, then you know what, when you're on PTO as a leader, you need to completely walk away.[00:05:00]
So, modeling the kind of behavior that you want your other managers to follow, I think is, is critical. Um, you know, I can always tell someone is a strong leader because they don't criticize a person, they typically start to criticize an action or start to break down the action of where the action went.
So the person, it's not about the person that made the mistake. It was the mistake that was made. So, you know, working with that, that employee of how did you get to that decision? Why did you move in that direction? How can we back up and restart again? So to me, if you meet leaders who are critical of their employees, to me, that just bounces back off onto them because to me, this focus on the task, the mistake, the action rather than the person and give that person the resources that they don't make that mistake again.
Nicole Greer: Yeah, absolutely. I agree. And, you know, so it's true, isn't it? You got to lead by example. I mean, when you say, you [00:06:00] know, model model the way it's this old thing that we've heard since the beginning of time, you know, uh, lead by example. And let's, let's not just gloss over the fact that Tara just said, uh, you know, if it's time to take PDF, PTO, Paid time off, you should actually completely step away.
Tara, this is, this is an out of control thing in workplaces. People are not really taking vacations.
Tara McAlister: No, or they're sick and they're at home and, you know, strong leaders empower other people while they're gone so that when they're gone, they can make decisions and feel confident about it. Um, and if, if you are a leader that has to continuously check back into the office, there's a problem. If you're on PTO and you have to continuously check in because it shows that you don't think your people are prepared to help lead if something happens to you.
Um, so. I think it's important that leaders model that [00:07:00] behavior and give confidence to the people below them so they feel like they can make decisions in their absence. And, you know, I have a hard, my phone is always on. I mean, I can see my emails all day long and even on the weekends. So, you know, that's, it's hard.
Um, but it's, it's discipline. Because you would want your employees to take time off to be with their families, to go to the beach and not be looking, you know, be reading an, you know, be listening to a book or reading a book on their iPad instead of looking at their emails and wondering what they're gonna be walking into the next time they're in the office.
So I think it's really important that, you know, leaders do that.
Nicole Greer: Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, I, I sit under the teaching of this guy named Dan Sullivan. So, um, uh, I think, uh, everybody go Google Dan Sullivan. He's got a lot of books, um, and he's, um, his company is called Strategic Coach and, and Tara, he has this thing that he teaches the people that come to his coaching program.
And when I heard it, I was like, [00:08:00] you know, kind of like, well, duh, of course, but like, we don't know what this guy is saying. You know what I mean? Like, sometimes things are so obvious, but we don't. Pay attention and we still kind of run with crazy thoughts in our mind. So this is what he says to her He says you should have three types of days during the week.
The first day is an off day He's like you're completely off of work and you by the time you put from the time you put your head on the pillow till You put your head on the pillow again. You don't check email. You don't do anything He said the biggest problem with people is they don't know what to do with themselves Because they've never had a day off.
And he's like, so plan a hike, get the movie schedule, you know, go to the bookstore, you know, get out by the pool, whatever the thing is. He says, plan your off day so that you won't wind up working, you know? And I was like, that's. That is exactly what happens to me. I, you know, it's my day off, but they're like, I'll just check email before you know it, you're two hours into it, you know?
Uh, and then the [00:09:00] other thing he says is that you should have an on day, um, uh, or a focus day where you are in meetings and you're meeting with people and talking to your employees and doing all sorts of things. And he said, when you have a focus day and you're trying to get things done, he says, you oftentimes create even more work.
That's just how it works. And he said, and then you have to have what he calls a buffer day. And that's a day where you don't have any meetings. You don't meet with their employees, and you're kind of in your office with your head down, cleaning up your piles and your files. Um, and I think if you set your week up to have some, you know, some of each of those days,
then you will have your empowered people. 'cause you had a focus day training people get your piles and files cleaned up. Then you could be off of work. So kind of behind this idea of using your paid time off, you gotta have time management skills.
Tara McAlister: Absolutely, absolutely. And there's nothing more frustrating, I think, for someone who's serving under a leader to not feel like their, their leader is managing their own time well, that seems to wanna manage yours.
You know, [00:10:00] so it is that, um, do as I say, do as I do kind of thing, um, with that as well.
Nicole Greer: Right? Right. Well, you know, Tara, you and I have been, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Tara McAlister: No, no, I was just going to say, you know, I've worked for different leaders and, you know, the ones I always admire, tried to copy were the ones that didn't seem like they were running out of time every 15 minutes.
You know, the ones that had the time to have a conversation, um, the ones who I could tell were not going to run late on projects that they were responsible for, or when they were supposed to get something back to me, got it back to me when before or on the date that they promised. So, you know, to me, leaders need to model that behavior if they want the people that work for them to do the same.
Nicole Greer: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So back to lead by example, modeling the behavior. Yeah. And the 2nd thing that I, I typed into my notes real quick that that Tara brought up. I don't want to gloss over this either. Um, as she said, you know, when you do have to give an employee feedback, you give [00:11:00] feedback around the behavior.
Not the person. Meaning like, you know, like, why were you so stupid and doing this? It's more like, tell me why you said that, or tell me why you did that. Um, and then, circle in on the behavior, not the actual person, because in the end we're trying to develop people. People sometimes just don't know right from wrong.
And you got to kind of. teach them as we go.
Tara McAlister: Yeah, I completely agree with that. I just, I think it's so important for, you know, a leader has to help build up their people. And if they focus on behavior and correcting behavior, instead of the care, the personality or the characteristics of the person, they will build that person up to get them to where they need them to be to be able to perform for themselves.
And so, you know, I've worked for leaders who focused on the behavior and, and to me, that's who grew me and they were hard. You know, I had a boss who was just hard, but she focused on the behavior and taught me so much. And it was never about me, Tara, [00:12:00] the person, because I knew she liked me, Tara, the person, because she didn't focus on, all this other stuff or my lack of detail or whatever, it was the behavior of why did I do this?
And what can I do going forward? So, to me, it is definitely that piece of focusing on the right thing so that you empower the person and don't break them down.
Nicole Greer: Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, you and I doing this HR thing, uh, we, uh, we're all about the employee. And so, uh, I was, uh, thinking about, uh, the fact that you're going to give my listeners a really nice goody, uh, uh, takeaway.
You're going to give them your interview questions and your, hiring scorecard. Is that right?
Tara McAlister: Yes. Yes. Because the key is finding the right people, right? I mean, you can all day long put a job description together, but if you can't interview them and to assess, are they going to be able to do what you need them to do?
How are they motivated? How do they communicate? If you don't start looking at [00:13:00] the soft skills, asking them questions about past experiences and what they've learned, One of my favorite questions actually is, has always been tell me something you've taught yourself over the last six months.
And I don't care if it's crochet or pottery or whatever, but it's amazing to me what people say. Like, I've always wanted to paint and I didn't really think I could paint. So I went and took a class and then I did something virtually. And then all of a sudden, like I bought the paints and now I'm painting.
And to me, that tells me a lot about a person who is focused on doing something that creatively makes them feel good went out got the resources is encouraging themselves along the way. Um, and to me being a lifetime learner whether it's painting or cooking or bake whatever it is to me I love that.
That's one of my favorite questions so yeah I think the interview questions and being able to say mary's the better person for the job than john and being able to say why? Is so important now, especially with [00:14:00] all of the EEOC and making sure that you are not discriminating against anyone. It's important that you ask the same questions to the same for the same job every time.
Because if I don't ask Nicole about her experience and, um, organizational development, I don't go down deep into that. But yet I do it with John. But yet I decide, who am I going to pick? It's not fair because I really didn't get to know what your experience was in organizational development, but I did with John.
I say the word consistency probably like 500 times a day, but it is all about trying to stay consistent so that you can make it so that you know I chose Mary over John because Mary has one, two, three, and four, and John is lacking in these areas.
Nicole Greer: Oh, that's exactly right. And you know, here's, here's the thing about consistency is you're, you need to do that to stay safe.
Like she said about the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and all that. You got to do that, but [00:15:00] you want to be consistent because you do actually want to compare apples to apples. Or figure out I've got a red apple and I've got a green apple and which would be better in this recipe that I'm about to make because I'm going to take this green apple and put it in this recipe with this manager in this department doing these things or would a red apple be better, you know, and and being able to actually do the,
I'm going to use a fancy word that when my mentor taught me discernment, you know, it's not just like choosing somebody. I mean, like you really need to sit with it too, you know, and, and be thinking through how you're going to hire this person. And, and, you know, there's a, there's a thing out there, everybody called the Employee Life Cycle.
And the first The first part of the employee life cycle is having an HR Strategy. And we're talking with Tara McAlister, who is an HR strategist. Um, and what that means is that you have a strategic workforce plan designed to deliver the corporate strategy. So whatever [00:16:00] we're doing with the people serves this vision or mission we have inside the business. And so, um, you got to find the right people, um, to get that corporate strategy done.
Tara McAlister: Right. And involving the whole corporate structure. You know, I think a lot of times people think that HR acts out on its own. It's, it's a little annex of um, yeah, push a button and all these people come running out and now your positions are filled, you know, Really always Let's look at our marketing strategy.
How are we marketing to employees? What is our employment brand? What do we want people to know about working here? You know, what do how do we communicate what our strategies are so that potential employees know what a day in the life is going to be like, and what do they do every day that gets the final product?
You know, the famous, you know, quote about the, the guy at NASA who emptied out the trash. They said, what is your job? And he said, get to people into space because he believed that taking [00:17:00] out that trash every day made the impact of getting people into space. And it is, it's, it's, it is every person working into the next step to get that to get to that outcome.
And so it's always one of those things to me that I'm always amazed that I will say to an employee. So how do you contribute to the corporate strategy? They should know, right? They should know that even though, , I'm in the benefits I need to make sure we have strong benefits. So our employees know what they have, make sure they know that if they get sick, what they can do, I'm going to handle it the whole way.
I'm accounts receivable, I'm accounts payable. What does that do from the bottom line? And if I do my job well versus doing my job on an average step, how does that affect the corporation as itself? So I think it is an all encompassing. It's not a HR button that sits out there that spits out people. Um, everyone's gotta be involved, right?
Nicole Greer: Yeah, and, and I would say too, you know, is that, you know, if, if you're an HR [00:18:00] professional and you, you get the phone call, the email, the text that says, you know, find me somebody for marketing. Um, you, you say, I'd be glad to let, when can you sit down with me and tell me what you're trying to achieve over in the marketing department.
Right. And so, uh, the thing about also being an HR person is like, you know, you and I have done this for a hot minute and you know, we, we kinda, we have some serious business acumen at this point. Like I do understand marketing. I do under understand operations and finance and all that stuff now. At the beginning, I didn't understand all that, you know, so as an HR professional, you need to cross pollinate.
You need to go down there and say, okay, what are you guys doing in marketing? Oh, we're going to ramp up social media. We're going to launch this whole, you know, ad campaign, you know, and, and then we need to know kind of the, what, what talent, , would match that. Right. And so we want to put out, advertising that [00:19:00] clearly states we're looking for like an amazing whiz bang marketer here. We're not just looking for a marketing assistant or something like that. And so we want to attract the people to the company, um, who can uphold our reputation and who can actually do the amazing work. And so we've got to be so clear about it.
So as an HR professional, all these years, you know, being a person that interviewed and recruited and hired, how did you kind of work with your hiring managers?
Tara McAlister: I developed a relationship. Yeah, um, for example, I went, I knew, I mean, I knew nothing about eye, ear, noses, and throats when I went and started working for that multi specialty practice.
I mean, really, honestly, and I didn't know, they used all these fancy words and all this stuff, and so, I, but, once again, I had a good leader, and she's like, you can't fill a position until you know what it's like to sit in that chair. So I literally, I did a lot of job shadowing. I went and sat down with managers and said, well, why would, is this person successful, but this one's not, and what about [00:20:00] this employee it makes this a different employee. So I redeveloped a really strong relationship with my managers so that when they would call me and say, Hey, I need, Um, it's for Dr. Blah Blah, who has certain things, right? And Dr. Blah Blah wants a technician that can do A, B, C, D, you know? And so I would have to take into consideration Dr. Blah Blah, as well as the technical skills and the knowledge. So, you know, and it's, and it's a marriage of sorts, right? So kind of putting it all together and, you know, having managers who would say to me, Tara, I like that candidate, but it's not the right one. And I'd be like, okay, I got it. Because I used to tell my managers, hiring managers, if the first thing you say to me is that you like them.
I have not done my job. I want you to be able to come and say that person can do A, B, C, and D. Here's their challenges or whatever. I don't want, if you like them, that's wonderful. Y'all can go like each other all day long, but that's not going to really help the person be successful in the job. So, um, [00:21:00] it was always important to me that my managers felt comfortable saying to me, I really don't want somebody who's got that kind of communication style.
I want somebody who's got more like this. So having that open communication and not saying, you know, they would call and say, Hey, I need a front desk rep. And I'm like, Oh, don't you dare hang up. All right. So let's go through this again. Exactly what you need. So, um, you know, having that relationship with your managers so that they know you're just as invested.
And that you're working hard to fulfill what they need, um, and making their lives a little bit easier. It's important. I think from a recruiting standpoint.
Nicole Greer: No, I totally agree. And, and see, that's the thing about the unique part of being in HR. I mean, you're never going to be a doctor. I mean, that's not going to happen, you know, but here's the thing.
Most businesses, most organizations have a service or a product and a human that needs it. And you know, the HR person is trying to figure out what is the need and how [00:22:00] do we deliver the need in the highest and best way. And then, you know, put that, put that together, who's going to deliver this product or service in the highest and best way.
And then I love your thing about Dr. BlaBla, because Dr. BlaBla could be delightful and fantastic and have bedside manner or not.
Tara McAlister: And then you're looking for doctors who don't have the best manner, but are looking for somebody to kind of supplement that part of them. So it always, to me that it was always kind of a match out of how do we fix this and how do we get the right person in there? So to me, it is, it's. It's a matchmaking thing, you know, recruiting and talent acquisition and, um, and I think the most important thing is not only looking at what an employee can do today for you on your first day on their first day is on day 100 what are they going to do for you on day 500? What can they do for you and staying along with that employee to give them that potential and the resources to be more than they were the day they walked into your office. So,
Nicole Greer: yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. So maybe Netflix would do a show with you and me, right?
So, you know, [00:23:00] they have like Indian Matchmaking, they have Jewish Matchmaker and they have all these ones. Maybe we could do one about HR because the truth of the matter is it is, it's totally like a marriage. I mean, these people have to live together every day, eight hours a day together.
Tara McAlister: And, you know, it could be little things that I will notice during an interview, and I'm like, that'll drive the doctor crazy, or that'll drive that manager crazy.
I can remember I'd have one, I'd have one physician, he didn't like somebody who talked a lot. So, like, if I had someone have, who's like, he wants to be that. Hey, every day person. That's not going to work no matter where their skill level was. So, yeah, I mean, hey, I'd be totally open to that, you know, little Netflix show. That would be great.
Nicole Greer: Okay. All right. So we're going through the employee life cycle and we've got a expert Tara McAlister here. And so we talked about, you got to have a human resource strategy to match the corporate strategy. You got to attract the right person. So you got to get up with your, your manager, find out what exactly they want.
Take into consideration personality, leadership style, communication style, [00:24:00] all these things. Um, but then, you know, us HR gals, guys, we got to get down to business. We got to recruit, we got to go find humans, like you said, there's no magic button where we pop people out, you know, left and right there. We can go find them.
So what, what would be your thoughts on the recruitment process? How do you go, how do you find good people other than just placing an ad?
Tara McAlister: Well, you know, I remember, I mean, I'm so old school. I remember sending ad faxing ads over to the Charlotte Observer to get them in for the Tuesday and the Sunday, you know, so that people could see them to get the fax resumes or whatever.
Whatever. I mean, I think that, you know, you've got to be with the time. So once again, involving your marketing departments, because getting marketing to social to, to talk about what's it like in the day in the life of working at ABC company? And why would somebody want to work at ABC company? I, every time I, on Facebook, I see [00:25:00] leaders who engage with their employees and use their employees to promote their company to me.
I love that. I love that. I have a friend who has a growing electrician business. All of his social media is focused on how great his people are and how great they do. And it'll be accompanied with testimonials, but it's celebrating Susie who did a great job handling a situation and it's celebrating Susie.
And if you're like Susie, we like Susie. If you're like Susie, come work with us, you know, and he has grown tremendously over the last three years. He said, these are the people that make it happen every day. These are the people that drive out of my trucks, wear my uniform and just are my company.
You know? So I think that that has a lot to do with it of getting employees engaged with helping them, them find people for you, you know, through referral programs or social media campaigns, or, you know, getting creative with local schools and [00:26:00] associations. Um, not just. You know doing it the same way every time.
You've got to be creative because every the talent is just it's slim So you've got to find it,. But there's also a piece of also Internal your internal customers to making sure you internally recruit and internally develop Um, and don't just forget about Suzy on day one Like I said, what's Suzy doing day 100 and where do we get her to be even better, you know To me you should, obviously you want to get outside perspectives, get external recruiting.
I think it's, it's important because it doesn't have to be done the same way every time. But you also have an internal knowledge and institutional knowledge inside that every day you're building up. And if you can take those people and elevate them to a higher level, you're getting so much more and a much richer workforce.
So I think external recruiting is [00:27:00] key, but I think internal recruiting is just as important because I think if you have a solid mix of different perspectives, institutional knowledge, you're going to get people who want to make the company better because they're seeing themselves get better.
Nicole Greer: I couldn't agree more.
And, and so, uh, the thing you said about your electrician friend, who's building his business and celebrating his, uh, people on social media. So I have two examples of that, that you can actually go look at everybody. The first one is I want you to go to, um, to LinkedIn and find Spire Integrated. This is a client of mine up in Detroit area of Michigan, and the CEO, his name is Novo, and he is one of the greatest people. Uh, I've, I've, I've worked with him.
I've done an HR audit for him, and, um, he's got these great core values, uh, like one of his core values is clear as kind. Like don't leave anything out. Don't shortcut stuff. Give us the details, [00:28:00] you know, uh, tell us everything you think we should know and be patient enough to listen to everything you need to know.
You know, so clear is kind. So everybody will be much nicer to each other if everybody's informed. So I love his core value there. And then his other core value is get S. H. Hashtag Asterix circle exclamation point t done And so, uh, and that's how he is. I mean like what his core values are so you know, and when you meet this guy, he's like, be clear, give me the details and let's go, let's get stuff done.
And, uh, and so he's so fantastic. But if you look at his social media, it is all about his employees. And then, um, uh, I can't remember what month it is or. Where would we celebrate women in the workforce? But he did this whole thing about all the women that work in his business. It was so lovely. I was so impressed with him.
So there's so Spire Integrated, everybody look at that. And then the other thing is really silly. So Tara, I don't know if you shop at the [00:29:00] Harris Teeter, but I shop at the Harris Teeter. Do you? Okay, so
Tara McAlister: I am card number four and
Nicole Greer: You've had your Vick card for 24 years or something, right? So, uh, yeah,
Tara McAlister: It was plastic card at one time. It was red. I still have it in my wallet, even though I don't need it. I've just given my phone number.
Nicole Greer: That's right. That's right. Well, I buy these tomatoes that are called Nature Sweet Constellation tomatoes. And they're like a blend of like yellow and green and red little tomatoes because they're so delicious and I eat them on my salads.
And so, uh, every time I get these Constellation tomatoes, I peel back the, the plastic thing on the top. And on the backside of the label is a picture of an employee who picked the tomatoes or can't who puts them in the thing? And I I just think that is so impressive of this little Constellation Nature Sweet Tomato [00:30:00] company that they do that So go to the Harris Teeter have a salad for lunch today everybody and look at the tomatoes from from Constellation I just I think what you're saying is is absolutely absolutely huge and this thing of an internal recruiting which means you have to do something that is near and dear to both our hearts Which is you have to do employee performance management, and you have to train people
Tara McAlister: And develop them and, and take value in them and see them as someone that you can help bring to a higher level. Nothing gives me more gets me more excited than you. You discover that high potential employee that doesn't know they're a high potential,
Nicole Greer: Right?
Tara McAlister: I had this young lady and I, I still talk to her. So this has been a 15, 20 year friendship. She was actually an intern for us, um, in our marketing department.
And, uh, she didn't get a marketing position after college. So she called me and said, hey, I'd really love to come work there. I love the environment. I put her in the front desk position, but I [00:31:00] knew it was only a matter of time. Laura was not going to be sitting at that front forever, because Laura was always asking me questions and wanting to do more and be involved in projects.
And she got involved with the non, you know, the charity events that we had a plan. And so about every year and a half, Laura would be like, okay, what's next? And I'd say, okay, here, I want you to do this and this. And then let's get you set up to be this position. So she went from front desk to clinical, clinical to a coordinator.
She ended up running an office and then she ended up running like four offices before she left us. She had this natural progression, but she, the potential was so there, and she was so eager and coachable and she wanted it. Like she saw that it wasn't just this position. She was trying to be she was wanting to be this position all the time. So to me that is one of the the things in Hr.. That just makes your heart beat really fast You have to do a lot of yucky stuff in hr You have to have those difficult coaching [00:32:00] conversations.
You have to tell you have to tell employees they smell You have to tell employees that if they don't start coming to work, you're gonna let them go You're gonna have to tell employees that they're mean Tell, sometimes I've tell employees just to fuck it up buttercup because you've got to bring it.
Right. So there's all those yucky pieces, but yet there's a pieces when you find that high potential employee that just, it almost makes me salivate, you know, like what can we do? And I think that what I saw is that I saw my leaders do that to me. I had a phenomenal mentor when I went, um, when I started my HR, really started my HR career. She taught me to be a problem solver. I would come to her and I would say, you know, we have such a hard time getting eye technicians. And she's like, wow, well, what can we do about that? And I know in her head, she had 5, 6, 7 ideas of what we could do, but I would come in and say, hey, I'm going to go to Central Piedmont Community College, and I'm going to talk them into starting an eye [00:33:00] technician program.
And she'd say, okay. Okay. So that's what happened. A friend of mine who was an eye technician at the time, we put together a program and now they've got an eye technician program at CPCC. She wasn't going to give me the answers, but she was going to encourage me and feed me and empower me to have those, that ability to problem solve.
I mean, I think one of the worst things a leader can do is just to tell people what to do. You can't expect people to be a problem solver unless you teach them to be a problem solver and encourage them to be in a problem solver. So sometimes I'll meet with leaders and they're like, well, she just never comes up with good ideas and she's never creative and she doesn't speak up in meetings.
And I'm like, well, can I come to a meeting? And then I see exactly why she does not jump up during the meeting and say, Hey, here's an idea. So, you know, that to me is another leadership quality of empowering your people to be problem solvers um, and not just telling them what to do.
Nicole Greer: Yeah. And I think [00:34:00] leaders are a little confused because sometimes, you know, like you'll have an employee who's like, just tell me what to do and I'll do it.
And that sounds fantastic, but really it's like, you know, I'm the leader and I don't know what to do. You know, it's like, sometimes the leader's like, we got a problem, all hands on deck, all brains on deck. We got to figure this thing out, you know?
When we went to school. I mean, in the way back when we went to elementary school, middle school and high school, we were always told, get the answer right. And so we have like 18 years of conditioning that says you have to get an A and you have to be right. And so if you don't think you know the answer, you're like, I'm not going to say I'm not going to contribute.
Um, and so it's almost like we have to kind of undo that conditioning of needing to get the answer right. And, and the leader, uh, again, lead by example, needs to be vulnerable and say, Hey, listen, guys, we've got this little messy thing here we got to fix. And, um, So I need your brain. What do y'all think we can do?
And you don't need to be right and we just need to be messy. And you know, [00:35:00] yesterday, Tara, I worked with a really awesome company called Plastics, and, uh, it was in collaboration with, uh, UNC Charlotte. And, uh, we did. Eight hours. Don't miss that eight hours of training on problem solving, decision making and critical thinking.
And these people were licking this stuff up. They were like, that is a great idea. That's a great way to go about it. So also it goes, Tara, dang it, it just always goes back to training. If you don't train people how to problem solve, they don't know how.
Tara McAlister: No, no, you know, and it's, it's, it's amazing to me. Like I, the leader that I was speaking about earlier, who never gave me the answer would help me problem solve.
I remember like, she'd say what's the most outrageous way that we could do this? And then we throw things out. Well, would that work? And then what would end up happening is the group of five or six of us. Little piece of that a little piece of that a little piece of that and then that came up with a solution and because the whole group was engaged on we were problem solvers.
That's what we're asked [00:36:00] to do every day. So I, you know, I always always talk about what she did for me to teach me to be what I am now and I still talk to her all the time and I get the greatest joy out of her reminding me of all the times I came in there and said, I'm just not good at this HR stuff.
And I can't, you know, and I break down and she'd say, yeah, yeah all right. Okay. Okay. You know, and then we all work it out, you know, so, um, I think problem solving and, and because you don't just want an employee to do step one. You want them to think about step one, the consequences, step two, what's going to happen.
Number three, how do we get there? You know, that kind of thing. So when you have that employee that just says, tell me what to do, they'll go and flick the light on. Right. And I may not flick the light on and realize, oh, that, that light bulbs flashing, how do I get that light bulb to stop flashing or the light bulbs dead?
What do I do? Well, you didn't tell me to put the light bulb in.
Nicole Greer: Right, you just told me to turn the light switch on in the dark
Tara McAlister: In the dark.
Nicole Greer: [00:37:00] Right? That's not gonna work. Yeah. So it, you know, so we've talked a little bit about, you know, getting up with the hiring manager, how the leader needs to hold themselves during it.
But I want to get to this thing of interviewing because again, you're going to give us, um, Tara's Top 15 Interview questions and then to do a scorecard.
Tara McAlister: It's the killer interview questions. Oh, it's not just interview. It's the killer.
Nicole Greer: Okay. Don't miss that everybody. This is gonna slay the situation is what I'm hearing.
Okay, good. Alright, so, so here's the thing. Um, I finally talked to this person. I, now I believe in phone screening. Are you a phone screener?
Tara McAlister: I am a phone screener and I, I, I tell you what, and I gotta, where if you don't turn the television down. Or if you're sitting there doing dishes or I've had somebody, I can tell they're in the bathroom when they were taking my call,
Nicole Greer: yeah, and I, I mean, I don't know why I don't even understand people who don't phone screen. I'd like, I don't even understand that because you can, you can learn a [00:38:00] lot just by what their voicemail says. You can learn a lot. Like one thing that blows my mind, Tara, is I'll call a candidate who has applied for business position, put their phone number on the resume, and then you call the phone.
And it says the voicemail is not set up, or it says the voicemail is full and you cannot leave a message. And I'm like, how is this person going to get a job? Like, to me, like, this is not somebody with all of their faculty, you know, like, they're not thinking this through.
Tara McAlister: Or the email address on the resume tells you a lot too, because if it says like, hot mama six, you know, or it says like, you know, something inappropriate, like, okay, well, if you're willing to put that on the resume and, you know, show everybody that you're hot mama number six.
Um, you know, maybe the decision making process wasn't involved there.
Nicole Greer: That's right. It wasn't a lot of discernment and, uh, thought process. Yeah. So, uh, so we, so phone screening is absolutely huge. And so really what I'm looking for on a phone screen is like energy, you know, like if this person [00:39:00] can be like, because, you know, you're like, hello.
And then you say, Hi, this is Nicole and I'm calling because I'm recruiting for this position and they go, Oh, hi, Nicole. I'm like, Oh, hot dang. I got a live one. But then some people will be like, can you call me back in 20 minutes? And I'm like, no, never like, no, but you can call me back in 20 minutes. You know, like they don't understand what's going on here.
Tara McAlister: You know, and that's certainly, you know, you'll do a prescreening and somebody says, Hey, I really want to talk to you. But right now, in the middle of the grocery store, can I call you at 1 30? And I'd tell you what at 1 30, didn't they call that? That's a whole different ballgame. So, you know, but people who are like, Oh, hey.
You almost want to be like, click. Ooh, I must have accidentally hung up on you, you know, because that does tell you so much about how they start to interact with you. You know,
Nicole Greer: That's exactly right. Cause you're looking for communication up front.
Tara McAlister: You know, and I think the pre screening also is don't waste my time kind of thing. I mean, it's like when you're dating, if you meet a guy who's [00:40:00] like, I'm never having kids and I'm never going to be the mowing the grass kind of guy. And that's what you're looking for in a spouse. You know, you have to throw some of those things out when you do the prescreening, like this position is not remote, this position is in the office, 8 to 5, and it's not going to be remote or whatever, you know, the logistics of the job.
I think you have to be, transparent and I expect them to be transparent too. You know during the interviewing process asking, okay, so how are you feeling? I always take in the temperature How are you feeling? You've had this interview now with this manager.
Do you feel more confident about this position? Do you feel less confident about this position and keeping that conversation going. Because the last thing you want is to get a person all the way to the offer And then all of a sudden they're like, well, I don't want to work eight to five and um in an office You're like well, We talked about that three weeks ago during our pre screening process.
So, you know, that kind of thing. So, yeah, I believe in pre screening.
Nicole Greer: Yeah. And the other thing too, is I, I talk money out of the gate too. I'm like the [00:41:00] range for this job is between 65 and 72. Is that, is that good for you? Cause that's what's in the budget. And, and they're like, well, I'd really like to do more than 72.
And I'm like, you will not be offered this job at higher than 72, I'm just telling you right now. And so a lot of people think they can negotiate up and I, and I tell them, no, this is the budget. This is what's in the plan for 2025, the remainder of 2024. And so you have to be okay with that before we move forward.
And I've had people say, well, you know, I'm making 80 now. And so I can't go backwards. And I'm like, I understand that I wouldn't go backwards either, but I know my hiring manager, my, my business is not going to do that. So it's not a match. And so I think that phone screening really gets all the boundaries and parameters. Straight.
Tara McAlister: Absolutely. I agree completely and I, and I think, you know, being transparent from the get go. Um, because like I said, you're expecting them to be transparent, not holding back that they're going to actually have [00:42:00] to travel three Saturdays a month from them, you know, at the beginning, you know what I mean?
To me, I want to know the good, the bad and the ugly. And even when I have gone through the job, you know, I've been interviewed and gone through the interview process. I really do start with tell me the good, the bad and the ugly. And if the recruiter can't tell me some of the good and the bad and ugly, if they can't give me all three categories, I'm like, well, do you really know your culture?
Oh, it's wonderful to work here. It's like princesses and unicorns and rainbows shoot out of everything, you know? And like, Oh, great. Um, and the money falls from the sky any minutes, you know, that kind of thing. So, you know, being transparent, I think is so important to develop that relationship of being transparent and also remind you said it was okay at 72.
So when we go and we negotiate and at 72, I want, I have no. Should have no reason you wouldn't accept it at 72. So
Nicole Greer: That's right. That's right. Okay. So let's say we [00:43:00] pre screen them and we've got all our parameters in place and they've got good energy and their communication is above board. We're like, okay, we got a live one.
So now we're going to interview, bring them in for the interview. And don't forget everybody we're talking with HR strategist, expert Tara McAlister. And so she is going to give you, don't miss this everybody, the 15. Killer killer interview questions and a scorecard. Okay, so don't don't don't give away the 15 things yet don't do that.
But uh, but tell me, you know, how do you handle an interview? We've we've got about you know seven more minutes that you and I are going to get to hang out time flies when you're having fun talking Hr So, uh, what what would be the tips or like do this y'all don't do that What would you tell people about interviewing people.
Tara McAlister: Don't start the conversation trying to like them?
You're not going to a barbecue trying to meet the neighbor. That's not the goal. The goal is to know what you've got to find in someone to know they're going to [00:44:00] be successful. Because there have been candidates that I'm like, hey, let's have lunch next week, but I would never want you to work here.
You know, just from the conversation. So, you know, and to me, it is a conversation. I expect when I interview people that they ask me as much as I ask them. I want them to ask me about what the leader is like. I want them to ask me about what makes me want to come to work every day.
I want them to ask me what it is that they see the biggest challenge to be in this role. So whenever I'm interviewing somebody, I want to, I'm looking for somebody who, is interacting with me and as we're both focused on the same goal, because I should be thinking, do I want to buy them?
But they should also be saying, do I want to buy you? Do I want to buy ABC company and be working for you 40 hours a week? So it needs to be kind of a really transparent conversation of what the job entails, what it's going to work out to be, how it's going to be, what's the [00:45:00] day in the life of, right? So, you know, to me, having that kind of mentality rather than, I want to see if I like you and that we both like red velvet cake or, you know, whatever it is, you're not trying to like them.
What you're trying to do is figure out if they're going to be great at that job.
Nicole Greer: That's right. That's right. And I love how you're saying it's, it's, it's conversational. So I'll tell you one big mistake. I say, you tell me if you think it's true. Um, a lot of times I'll do the pre screen and then inside of Build a Vibrant Culture.
We Do. recruiting. So, I just want to make that clear for everybody listening. We do recruiting. Um, we like to do what I call boutique recruiting. Like, let's say you've got a difficult thing to find. We would love that challenge at Build a Vibrant Culture. So, so we go out, we find people. One time I had to find this, this person who was an encapsulator.
They're going to run this machine that puts powder in the capsules and makes like a little Tylenol or I mean, this is a very hard people to find, but I found one. So, uh, that was really fun. That was a challenge. And then everything, all sorts of leaders and things we do and, uh, [00:46:00] specialty people. But anyway, so, uh, you know, when, when we're, we're looking for these people, I think sometimes, especially if it's a hard to find person, the manager in the interview, the hiring manager will talk the whole time, almost like trying to sell the person instead of like asking questions. And my philosophy is, is like the interviewer should talk like 80 to 90, or excuse me, 10 to 20 percent of the time. You got to get the interviewee talking like 80 to 90 percent of the time.
What do you think about that? Do you agree? What do you think?
Tara McAlister: Oh my, I, in fact, I had a recruiting assistant and I, and she would, I, When I have an interview with her one time, I was watching her and I said, hon, it's not about you. Interview is not about you the interviewee. They, they, it's not, don't you want to talk about them more than they, you want, Oh, you have kids.
Well, I have [00:47:00] kids and I have one. It's not about you. It's about the other person. So I agree on that 80 20 rule. In fact, if it's going where I'm having to talk more, That's usually not a good thing for the person I'm interviewing.
Nicole Greer: Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay. So, um, so there's, there's a couple of tips for you and then don't forget that Tara McAlister expert, HR expert strategist is going to send you.
Oh, actually put it in the show notes. Will you give it to us so that we can pop it on the bottom here and people can pick it up? Okay. All right. So it's the, It's the killer, the killer. It'll slay the process of hiring. Okay. Uh, so she's going to give you those questions and then the scorecard, how you keep track of what the heck you're doing with this position, right?
Tara McAlister: It's especially if you have multiple candidates who are being interviewed by multiple, multiple different people, right? And that way that you come back together, he's got their scorecard. And John said, Oh my God, he was an eight. And what was like a three? Cause this is what he said when [00:48:00] I asked him this, this, and this.
And then he's like, well, I didn't really, yeah, I guess he did kind of say that. And all of a sudden now they're comparing and it also takes a lot of the, I like them piece out of it too, because they become a number based on the criteria and the competencies that you're looking for.
Nicole Greer: Yeah. And you know, here's the thing.
Tara McAlister: That's why I love HR.
Nicole Greer: Right. Cause it's like objective and then there's subjective stuff and you have to do both sides. I mean, you know, Tara's not saying hire somebody you don't like. She's not saying that. She's saying, don't let that be the only subjective criteria.
Tara McAlister: Great, exactly. And you know, I love, I love HR in the, you know, I did HR.
I was like, I always say I'm an HR monster for a long time. You know, the one that would walk in with a manila envelope and everybody's like, who needs the box today? You know, and, um, I've done the ugly, I've done the fun. And, um, now working with Catapult, being able to [00:49:00] advise other HR people and, and, Empower these HR people of, of, well, what if you asked them this, or what if you did this, or, you know, having that to me, it, it fills me up like nothing else I've ever had an experience to do.
I've never felt more fulfilled than I do in the role that I'm in right now, just because of every day having conversations with HR professionals or office managers or business owners who sometimes get in their own way. And you're like, back up. Let's rethink that. And if you do that PTO policy that way, what's that, what's the consequences going to be of that. Most of the time, you know, so I was saying, well, just tell me what to do. And I'll say, no, let's, let's talk about it first. What do you think you should do? Because I want them to know that they're not calling me to get the yes or no, or go up, go down. They're calling me to confirm, Hey, I think this is what we're going to do.
What do you think? Yup. Absolutely. Cause we want to empower them, not just have them. You know tethered on the line [00:50:00] as so to speak.
Nicole Greer: That's right. That's right All right, everybody. It has been a full hour of hanging out with uh, Hr Strategist expert Tara McCalister And so Tara if people want to find you, uh, can they go link in with you?
What's your website share with us the deets so that we can get up with you?
Tara McAlister: You know, i'm on Linkedin. I love connecting on linkedin. I love sharing. Um, you know, you things. Um, and so please find me on LinkedIn. I'm also on Facebook, but LinkedIn is my number one social media channel, you know, on my HR side.
So please reach out to me. And I'm here to help. I love that. That's part of the, the thing that gives me joy every day. So, um, Ask me questions. Um, I'd love to help.
Nicole Greer: All right. Very good, everybody. This has been another amazing, hopefully you thought it was amazing. If you thought it was amazing, I thought it was amazing.
Go down and hit the like button, leave a little comment, uh, like something like I heart Tara [00:51:00] or something like that. And, uh, leave us a little comment. Uh, we'd love to know what you think about what we shared today. Uh, and, and, and we'd love for you to, um, you know, subscribe to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast.
So thank you, Tara, so much for being on the show. It's been a delight.
Tara McAlister: Thank you so much. I've, it's been an absolute honor. Thank you so much.