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Every day, we at Hutchison PLLC work with founders and entrepreneurs as they fight and grind and stress and push to bring their visions to reality. We are inspired by their incredible stories of success, of failure, of reworking and trying again.
TIM: Three of us are all entrepreneurs and successful
entrepreneurs know how to listen to their customers.
And I think so a lot of our programming, just
like yours, bubbles up from the community.
ALLISON: You know, we've had people come in and
talk about kind of dismantling the gender stereotypes
that exist in the business world.
CARL: We're doing a lot of different things, but
a lot of the same things building our ecosystem.
And it's inclusive and we're not having to work
at it. It's just who we are.
TREVOR: Hello, and welcome to the Founder Shares
podcast, brought to you by Hutchison, a law firm in
Raleigh, North Carolina, that helps founders and
entrepreneurs in technology and life science companies
start up, operate, get funded, and exit. So whether
you're already an entrepreneur or want to be one
someday or are just fascinated by the stories
of how a business goes from idea to success or
not such a success, this podcast is for you. It
is a beautiful fall day in Downtown Durham, and
we are coming to you live from the rooftop of
the AMERICAN UNDERGROUND. Now, I feel like I've
been saying it a lot lately, but today we're doing
something a little different. We typically interview
founders and investors about their entrepreneurial
journeys, but today we're going to explore another
linchpin of the startup ecosystem, coworking spaces.
You can't start a business if you don't have a
place to do it. And so I'm very excited to be
joined on the rooftop today by Allison Rogers
of Blush Cowork, Carl Webb with Provident 1898
1898 and Tim Scales with AMERICAN UNDERGROUND.
Thanks so much for coming out. Thank you. So tell
us a little bit about yourself and about the coworking
spaces that you represent. We'll start with you,
Alison, just cause you're right next to me.
ALLISON: Okay. My name is Allison Rogers and I
own Blush Cowork, which is a space in Cary, North
Carolina. And it's a woman focused coworking space
with onsite childcare.
TIM: Carl?
CARL: And I'm Carl Webb. I am the co-founder of
Provident 1898. We are a shared workspace in Downtown
Durham. This is a wonderful place to be in because
this is my home. A native of Durham and that's
a rare thing now in our region to find locals
that actually stay around. Peter Cvelich is my
partner. And Provident 1898 is built on the history
and the legacy of Black Wall Street.
TREVOR: Tim.
TIM: My name is Tim Scales. I'm director of the
AMERICAN UNDERGROUND, the rooftop that we're on
right now, which is a beautiful space and also
is right by the train tracks. So I assume we'll
edit the train whistle out of the recording at
some point. I have been with the AMERICAN UNDERGROUND
for four years and was a member before that with
my own startup for a couple of years. I've been
in and around this community for about six years
now. AMERICAN UNDERGROUND itself has been in Downtown
Durham since 2010. Originally very much focused
as a tech hub and now has grown to be much more
diverse in its membership types of businesses
and larger community.
TREVOR: Well, I think that's a great segue because
you've each touched on it just a little bit. But
as you think about the organization you represent,
what is your space's reason for being? What is
it that kind of sets you apart or what's your
focus and mission? Carl, I'll start with you.
CARL: Well... Provident 1898 has been around for
a little over, about four and a half years. We
started in April 2015, shortly after the big gas
explosion that we had Downtown Durham. So my timing
was absolutely great from a media standpoint.
We had the governor, in town to cut the ribbon
and all of that. But we also had so much press
going towards the tragedy of the explosion. I
have had the fortune of being an entrepreneur
for four decades, and being born and raised in
Durham with this history and legacy of entrepreneurship
and mutual aid and pulling yourself up by your
bootstraps, I've also been blessed to experience
some success. And so I felt so confident that
I thought I wanted to give back in a big way.
So the big way was to start a coworking space.
And we started out with a vision that was ginormous
and reality set in as we moved along. And we pare
things back, but really at the core of it for
me, it's really about giving back. It was a, it's
kind of one of those moments where you recognize
that because of the community, in order for the
community to continue to be active and vibrant,
you have to sow some seed. And so the idea of
Provident 1898 1898 for me personally was, to
give back, but also to elevate the history and
the legacy of black entrepreneurship.
TREVOR: How about you Alison?
ALLISON: Well, our space is women focused and
we have on-site child care, but that was really
born of my own personal need. And, you know, over
the last 10 years, when I had a business before
and when I was having kids, I was always looking
for coworking or childcare that was close to me
and convenient where I didn't have to drive a
long way. And just something that was right there.
And then during the pandemic, it really crystallized
because I was not able to get anything done during
the pandemic with a three-year-old in my lap.
And I thought that I couldn't be the only person
who was experiencing that. So that's really how
Blush was born.
TREVOR: Okay, so tell us a little bit about kind
of what the space looks like now, and has that
changed much over the time?
ALLISON: No, I mean, I think that the vision I
had for Blush and what's really come to be, is
as far as what the space looks like, it's really
been consistent. But the people that have been
engaging with Blush, I really thought it would
be a lot more remote workers coming out of the
pandemic, but it has been like, you know, become
a really vibrant entrepreneur community as well.
So that's been a great surprise.
TREVOR: So Tim, how about you? You mentioned that
AMERICAN UNDERGROUND has shifted focus a little
bit, but tell us how you view the mission of AMERICAN
UNDERGROUND right now and how it's changed.
TIM: Yeah, so we were founded very specifically
to be a center of gravity for tech and tech entrepreneurship
in Durham in 2010. And Durham in 2010 was very
different than Durham in 2023 in a lot of different
ways. You can hear the construction noise in the
background that is testament to that. And to a
large extent, that mission of drawing tech into
downtown has been successful in Durham. With the
growth of Google offices and Meta and others within
a few blocks of here, Durham shows up on the top
10 lists for tech hubs regularly through the collective
effort of everyone that's been involved with the
scene. And so with that, we have started to broaden
what it means to be an AMERICAN UNDERGROUND member
and what we provide to the community. And we've
also seen some pandemic era shifts in who opts
into the community. A lot more remote workers,
a lot more creatives, a lot more nonprofits, a
lot of folks who are seeking. Community has always
been key, but now community for many is the reason
for joining. And the services and others that
we provide are valuable to some. But really, it's
they want to look for a place where they can make
connections, feel a part of something, feel a
part of Durham and grow themselves professionally
or their business in whatever way that means to
them.
TREVOR: I think that's an excellent point because
I feel like when I look at all of your websites
and review some of the materials associated with
it, it always talks about community and building
a specific community. How do you think about doing
that? How are you intentional about building community
into your co-working space? Because I can tell
you having offices in close proximity alone does
not create a community. So how do you go about
approaching that?
ALLISON: It's so easy in my office because we
have so much open space to really bring people
together. But then it's also very easy for people
to introduce themselves to each other because
they're both taking their child into the child
care or, you know, both in the kitchen at the
same time. So in addition to that, I really try
to forge those connections between people when
we because everyone in my space seems to do something
slightly different. And they could all they're
all looking for the other person at some point.
So it's really easy. And then obviously through
events and things like that, both through member
events. And then events that are open to the public,
we really try to create that community.
TREVOR: How about for you, Carl?
CARL: Yeah, I would agree. A lot of it for us
is a programmed kind of effort, you know, monthly
programs that we do. But we're in a historic building,
the North Carolina Mutual Life Life Insurance Building
that is an iconic landmark in Downtown Durham,
represents a lot for black business and black
enterprise. Throughout the whole country. The
building was built in the mid-1960s. And it was
always a place that was accessible to the general
public. For a lot of different reasons, auditorium,
cafeteria, and it was a tourist destination for
a lot of people coming to the area. So when we
envision Provident 1898 and wanting to create
this kind of community space, it was an imperative.
That there would still be access to the space
by the public, which has been kind of tricky because
also you have some security issues with some of
the members that you have that you want to protect.
And we were also fortunate when we launched that
we had an excellent community manager that was
really able to engage new members and visitors
in a unique way just with his energy. And that
helped us a lot. But because so much of this is
about uplifting and building upon this legacy
that we talk about of black entrepreneurship,
it sort of attracts a certain type of user. But
what's interesting is that you would think, you
know, Durham not really having a racial majority
that in Durham it would be like 90% African American,
black and brown kind of an experience. And what
we found is that a lot of the ideas and messages
that are important within entrepreneurship and
business that these black founders back in the
day used are effective for everyone. And there
are lots of people that gravitate to this idea
of inclusion and we've benefited from that. So
that's really caused us to have to think more
deeply about the audience that we thought we were
planning for versus the audience that shows up.
And it's great from a community standpoint because
the idea was to create places for people to collide,
to create places where you felt safe asking dumb
questions about issues of race, class, and gender.
And this was also during the time that we had
a big bathroom flap going on. So we put gender
neutral bathrooms in our facility specifically
to try to say, hey, This is a place for everybody.
So programming, member engagement through the
staff that we have, and really not putting Provident
1898 1898 out front with our members, but really
trying to look at the work that they're doing
and elevating that. So from a programming standpoint,
much of that experience actually flows through
programmatic activities that our members are involved
with.
TREVOR: That's great. Tim?
TIM: Yeah, I think the thing that the three of
our spaces do so well that I see in Yale spaces
and many of the independent and smaller co-working
communities across country is that they really
care about the people as people, the members as
people. The members are not customers. They are
not defined by their job titles. They are people
sharing space. And it really starts with that,
that when you walk into a space like one of these,
the hope is that you are welcomed as a person
and everything that you are. And so a lot of what
we do is built around exploring that edge of a
professional community where we are also able
to bring our full selves to work and be the people.
And with all the weirdness maybe that we bring
to that experience in the space, because it's
through those moments where you drop a little
bit of the everything is great professional veneer
that you actually connect to people. And that's
important for everybody. And I think it's expressly
important for entrepreneurs who are fed this narrative
that you have to always give the impression that
you are up and to the right. And speaking for
myself, from when I was a member, the moments
that I was able to be like, this is awful right
now. This is one of the hardest days of my life
professionally, or I'm just stuck and I feel like
I'm going nowhere. It's in those moments that
you need the community and those moments that
the community is there. And I think that's what
I'm trying to do. The community has the opportunity
to step up for you in a way that they can't if
they don't know that's there. So bringing that
all back, knowing the people, caring about the
people at the core is what we build the foundation
of community on.
TREVOR: Well, and I think you touched on it a
little bit earlier, but this idea that so much
has changed in the workforce kind of in the last
few years and people have pulled back from community
and are now seeking out community again in kind
of different ways. I open up to everybody like
how do you see that reflected in your spaces and
the companies that are coming to you how do you
see that in the way that people are choosing either
to be a part of your space or those that are choosing
not to, and they're just working from home.
CARL: It really is because of two years of the
pandemic and just not being able to engage. The
program side of what we do is booming. I mean,
it does well. We still have a tough time competing
against you know, the kitchen table and the great
coffee that you can have at home and the pajamas
that you can wear. At home, but what we're finding
is that people are interested in connecting, so
they're coming out at times when they don't have
as much work to do, but they want to hang out.
Right. And so the design and the feel of the space
has to change to be a lot more casual for that
to happen. We also, which is funny, we have members
that... Community is not a big deal for them.
As a matter of fact, just leave us alone. And
we don't have a very large tech population, which
is interesting. And the organizations that we
do have, they tend to be, you know, into what
they're into and engage on a very, very limited
basis. So that's kind of interesting. Nonprofits,
on the other hand, they're just, you know, it's
all about engagement.
ALLISON: I would say that the smoothest transition
I have from someone trying out the space, becoming
a member is if they had a child during the pandemic
and they, they, maybe they have a great home office
and maybe they have, you know, a great childcare
available at home, but there's just something
that's not working about that. But there are all
kinds of reasons for people to be there, whether
they're, you know, they need to take a meeting
and they don't want to. Have someone like tromp
through their whole house up to the third floor
to their nice home office. Or, you know, they're
bringing together people, you know, a team that
all work remotely, but they want to work together.
Or, you know, obviously, like they they're just
like, I can't do any work if I can hear my my
child crying. So there's all different reasons
for for people to come out.
TIM: I'd say there's definitely a mental health
component to having a co-working membership for
a lot of people. I had that conversation very
explicitly with someone yesterday who said, my
membership fee, I think of that as a mental health
investment. Because it is very easy if you are
an introverted person and you work from home,
it is very easy to suddenly find that you have
not had much human engagement and sometimes you
need more. Or if you're a very extroverted person,
you're just not getting what you need during the
day and being around a space with other people.
People, even if you're not directly interacting
with them, can feel changing to your day and open
up some new levels of focus and creativity or
whatever it is that you're looking for. So I think
that's an element that I had not thought of initially
in this role, but now has become increasingly
common, I think, as folks are settling into the
long haul of hybrid work.
TREVOR: Yeah, and I think we probably touched
on this a little bit kind of in all of this conversation,
but if I'm a young founder or I have a startup
or I'm an established company even, what would
you say to them? Why should you come here and
work in this co-working space versus working remotely
or seeking out traditional lease opportunities?
I don't want to say sell it to me, but what is
the drive?
ALLISON: I think for my members, especially the
ones who have come as a team and have you know,
like maybe some private offices, but they're able
to gather with their team. They really find that
they can be more productive as a team. Just in
the past year and a half that I've been open,
I've seen people really grow from that. And I
mean, I think that's huge, because not everyone
can be really their best, most productive self
in their home office, just kind of siloed. I mean,
I know it was true for me, certainly, But I have
at least a dozen stories just like that coming
out of my space where people were like, No, we're
all together and now we're growing and it's made
a huge difference to the way we work.
CARL: And I guess to the financial side of it
all, when you look at a lot of the early stage
businesses that we have within our community,
the last thing they want to spend a lot of money
on is space. And I'm also learning that they value
space, but not... In the way that I value space
as a person that's in real estate development.
I'm thinking that it's the most important thing.
It sort of sets the standard about how you're
regarded in business. It legitimizes your efforts.
And all of that stuff is just not that interesting
to founders early on. It's all about the bottom
line, the ease of getting in a lease, getting
out of a lease, just how much of the burn this
space represents to them. And I'm also finding
that a lot of times it's really about meeting
spaces, conference rooms. It's about phone booths
and the networking opportunity and being connected
to folks who have money. So it's really, the way
that we sell it is, this is a low cost way for
you to operate, for you to assemble your team,
but also it gives you the ability to flex up when
you need to, when you have additional space. The
original vision that we had was starting sort
of at the lower level of the building. And as
organizations grew, we had additional space within
the tower that would be more suitable for that
growth. The world changed because of the pandemic.
Now space is just not, I don't care what industry
you're in, it doesn't have the same kind of value
in the way that it did.
TIM: Yeah, I think it's fair that anyone who's
a member of the AMERICAN UNDERGROUND could work
from anywhere and has no specific reason to come
into the AMERICAN UNDERGROUND for the space side
of things. I think the greatest benefit to a lot
of folks, especially the early stage entrepreneurs,
is at that point, you're doing so many different
things. Your time is your most precious resource.
And it's very easy as an entrepreneur to spend
time in the wrong places or spend time trying
to solve problems that other people have solved.
And being able within this context to post on
our Slack channel and say, hey, I have a question
about setting up my Google Ads account. That's
something that could take you eight hours of researching
and trying to get Google info or 20 minutes with
someone who does this every day and can just set
you on the right track from the start. Or they
have a business law question and they're trying
to figure out which law firm. They can actually
just raise their hand here and we'll say, well,
Hutchison was here last week. So why don't you
talk to them first? So moments like that, that
just save you those hours that you could spend
Googling or looking at reviews or spinning your
wheels or just getting discouraged. You can really
short circuit those by being a part of a broader
network. And you don't have to build that network
in a coworking community. You just walk right
into it and you become a part of it. And so the
speed and the time is a huge benefit for both
of us. Thanks for watching, folks.
TREVOR: So I'm going to ask a question that's
shifting a little bit here, but What role do you
see co-working spaces have in kind of increasing
representation in entrepreneurship? I mean, is
that a function of these different spaces? And
talk to that a little bit. I think we'll start
with Tim this time.
TIM: That should be a function of any entrepreneur-serving
organization, regardless of your business model.
I think any entrepreneur-focused organization
that is not also heavily considering the diversity
of their constituents is on the wrong side of
history. I think that it's key to everything we
do. There's a few key things that we do. We have
our annual Black Founders Exchange, which has
been a long-standing partnership with Google for
Startups that brings in 10 black-led startups
for an intensive week. That's a flagship program
that happens once a year. We can't stop at something
that happens once a year, so we try to build that
into everything we do. A lot of that means who
we bring in as speakers, who we put in the front
of the room, who we provide as resources and office
hours and workshops. Ensuring that there is representation
in the programming allows folks of color or women
who walk into the space to see examples of success
or stories of vulnerability from other organizations.
We can't just sit in the room and feel immediately
like, this is a space that wants me to be a part
of it. I think sometimes we do that really well.
Sometimes we have growth in that area, and it's
something that we're continually working on.
CARL: Carl? Yeah. The thing that was really important
to us is making sure that folks knew that we saw
them. We believe that representation really matters.
You know as an African-American business person
whether or not an organization or a restaurant
or a space or place really had you in mind when
they designed and pulled their business together.
You know, it starts with the people that you see
in the space, obviously, but it starts with the
music that you hear. It starts with the paintings
that you see on the wall. It starts with the story
and the history and the sensitivity around how
you connect and engage. And those were things
that are and were at the core of the founding
of Providence in 1898, The name Provident 1898
comes from the original name of North Carolina
Mutual Life Life Insurance. It was North Carolina
Mutual Life and Provident 1898 Association. and they
were founded in the year of 1898. That was really
significant on a number of levels because that
was a very crazy time in North Carolina history.
In Wilmington, North Carolina, for instance, we
had the first coup d'etat that we had in this
country where black government was overthrown
by white extremists, and it was partly due to
business. It was a black publishing company, white
publishing company, the Daniels family, and it
was some competition going on along with some
fusion politics where folks were actually coming
together, and that was not welcome. But in that
same year, while this destruction is going on
in Wilmington, North Carolina, business people,
Merrick Morris Spaulding... They're coming together
creating a business. They're innovating. They're
doing something positive. Well, that becomes the
foundation of the story that we want to tell about
how we can, no matter what kind of drama and crisis
may be happening around us, but we can come up
with better ideas. So when you come into Provident 1898,
you see artwork that's representative of, the
people that, make up our community. And a lot
of times these are underrepresented folks. You
hear music that you will not hear in Starbucks.
And you see people presenting themselves in ways
that, you know, in some places they may get arrested.
But, you know, the whole idea is making sure that
we had the right kind of representation, that
we anchored ourselves to the history, that we
want to tell a story that's over 120 years old.
And you feel like someone thought about me and
wanted me there. But again, what we have found.
My partner, you know, For those who can't see
me, I'm an African-American guy. My partner's
white guy. And that synergy that we have, these
stories, they work irrespective of what your racial
or ethnic background is. And that's the cool thing
about it. But it's got to be intentional and it
can't be a special program. The George Floyd thing
brought a whole lot of attention, brought a whole
lot of allyship that we had. But, you know, it's
just got to be a part of your DNA. And that's
what it is for Providence.
TREVOR: How do you think about it, Alison?
ALLISON: Well, inclusion is really, it's baked
into our space. And I know we... I talk a lot
about it being a woman-focused space, but at the
core, our core values are, you know, to provide
a space free from hate and harassment and to accept
everybody. But I still get the question a lot,
are men allowed? And of course they are. Everyone
is allowed, regardless of their gender identity
or their sexuality or their race or ethnic background.
I mean, that's right up on our wall. And it's
a pledge to uphold those values is written into
our membership agreement. So that's something
that's very important to me and therefore very
important to Blush.
TREVOR: And talk a little bit about the programming
that comes in to support this idea and this mentality
of what your focus is for your community. How
do you go about kind of identifying the programming
that you want to bring into your community? How
do you identify the best way to support your community
members through their specific needs and not be...
I guess reactive, but also just kind of forward
thinking with that programming.
ALLISON: I've had the luck of being able to, you
know, I have a diverse membership and they've
come to me with some great ideas. And then we've
tapped into some other groups, either through,
you know, sometimes it's through them renting
the space for private use. And I've been able
to meet a lot of people And we're still small
enough that they just come directly to me with
their ideas. And so we have kind of four key different
event types. And one of them is really dedicated
to being more of a serious conversation that's
prepared. Around, um, We had one that was, that
was all around anti-racist resources. You know,
we've had people come in and talk about, kind
of dismantling the gender stereotypes that exist
in the business world. And programming like that.
I've just been able to tap into the great network
that's been built and to create those programs.
TREVOR: Well, Carl, you mentioned something similar
that you see a lot of it being community driven
and kind of coming up from the bottom.
CARL: Yeah, we've had some cool stuff that we've
been able to do. And a lot of it, again, happens
with the members. Forward Cities is one of the
members of Provident 1898, and they were successful
in getting an SBA grant that allowed them to create
this E3 Durham initiative. And so it's a hub and
spoke model, and they have several other organizations.
Knox Street Studios would be one of them, North
Carolina Central, Durham Tech, Provident 1898,
and I'm leaving a few out. And that gives us an
opportunity on a monthly basis to have a program
that is set up to meet the needs of entrepreneurs
in Durham County, providing technical assistance,
providing an opportunity. For them to network
and connect to capital. We're also fortunate in
that we have NC IDEA as one of our anchor tenants
in the space. And so the programming that they
do around their grant cycles, the information
that they provide, a lot of that programming actually
happens out of the space as well. Because of art
being art forward, we do this initiative called
These Artist Talks, Meet the Artist. So that has
been a regular part of the programming that we've
done as well. We've had some strategic alliances
with 21c Museum Hotel, for instance. We've done
a joint exhibition with them where half of the
show is at Provident 1898 and the other half is
at 21C. Obviously, the benefit there is that we
get exposure to the patrons of 21C, and 21C gets
the opportunity to put their brand in front of
our members. So that's been very, very successful.
We did a similar project with the Museum of Durham
History, where they were focused on Floyd McKissick
Sr., who was the founder of Soul City, NC in Warrenton,
North Carolina. This was a guy who, back in the
60s, was actually building a whole town that was
about the black experience, but not just for black
people. Civil rights leader, pastor, politician,
entrepreneur. Well, that show... Was at the Museum
of Durham History. Now we have that within our,
we have that show within our space, and it gives
us a chance to talk about black capitalism. So
we just recently welcomed Lonewell and Bernard
Worthy and his team, and so when we start talking
about issues of closing the wealth gap and the
financial challenges that minority businesses,
have, we have some of these trailblazers from
the past that we can elevate to understand what
they did to get over those barriers. Those are
strategic alliances that we have.
TREVOR: That's great.
CARL: Them.
TIM: Yeah, I think the three of us are all entrepreneurs
and successful entrepreneurs know how to listen
to their customers. And I think so a lot of our
programming, just like yours, bubbles up from
the From the community, we're running a book club
right now. A member, Katie Rudy, came and said
she wanted to read this book, In Five Languages
Of Appreciation the The Workplace, and could she
make a book club about it? And we almost always
will say yes to whatever a member brings to us,
because why not? So we brought a few copies of
the book, and she's been running that, and so
that becomes an AU program led by a member and
really from the community. We also try to stay
a little bit ahead of what people are asking about
to try new things and sort of push the market
for programs or whatever in the community. Part
of our culture is just, I think I mentioned weird
earlier, we try to allow space for the weird and
the quirky and the personal. And so a lot of our
events are really based around how do we get people
in one room engaging in some sort of activity
together, which allows them to forget their business
for a minute and focus on being people. We had
one of our members let an Indian dance performance.
We brought in a guy named the Chocolate, a botanist
to do a plant propagation workshop, things where
people can get their bodies into it or get their
hands dirty or something. And it's easy to be
like, well, how does that benefit you as an entrepreneur?
What business skills are you learning from propagating
a mint plant workshop? But at the same time, that
part is valuable. That educational component is
valuable. And also the connections and the people
and the network are valuable. So we try to sort
of encompass both sides of that spectrum.
TREVOR: Yeah, sometimes it's so much easier to
connect with a person over something completely
unwork-related.
TIM: The last thing I want to do is make small
talk with a glass of wine. But if I can, I don't
know.
TREVOR: If you can do it over a mint plant, it's
so much better.
TIM: So different.
CARL: But wine and food, that's a big deal. It
is true.
TREVOR: It is key.
TIM: I will not discount the benefits of the wine
and hors d'oeuvres.
TREVOR: So I'm going to ask this question. I'm
not going to put any contours around it, but what
is one of your favorite stories coming out of
your community? Like the story you think about
just makes you smile kind of regardless of where
you're at. I'm going to leave it open. You guys
can jump on it.
TIM: There's too many. When I think about stories
of members within the space. I think about Tiny
Earth Toys, which is a startup led by Rachael
Classi, who's a serial entrepreneur, has been
around the startup scene for a while here. Her
business model was rentals of sustainable toys.
And it started in her bedroom, and she landed
in a small office here. And then she grew to a
larger office here, and she was trying to build
a warehousing facility out of an office-based
co-working space. And it just showed the creativity
and the scrappiness of entrepreneurs in general.
It showed the adaptability of our community and
how we could rally behind an entrepreneur that
was building something. And she has moved on.
She has her own warehouse, and that is very much
a success story for us as well. We're always sad
to see folks go, but if they're going because
they have outgrown the need for our space and
our community, then it's a great moment as well.
So watching the growth of that company through
the AU community. And how she adapted what she
was doing and we adapted together was a fun experience
for everybody.
ALLISON: My favorite story that's come out of
my space is that I had a woman who came in just
temporarily. She was in a private office. While
her home office was being renovated and she had
no plans to stay. But she was an engineer, an
executive, she works for a company. On the West
Coast, but she felt so good in the space and so
inspired and creative in the space, these are
her words, that she decided to start a business
and so she started a videography business and
makes incredible videos and she did stay and she
is working now on leaving her day job, her very
lucrative day job, and working towards just continuing
with her own business.
CARL: So for me, it's truly too many. I mean,
because with this being a passion project for
me and wanting to give back, and to actually sit
in there cost me a ton of money, and I'm not making
any, but I feel good about myself. And that's
really important because I watch video clips and
marketing reels, and I see our space all over
the place, and I'm going, man, it's like, is that
person a member? How is it that the space is beautiful
enough, attractive enough that people actually
want to use it It's cool when you see families
come to just sort of hang out and take a look
at the space. That's super gratifying. There's
also, there are two things that was really important,
and that's elevating and preserving the history
and legacy of Black Wall Street. And through work
that Fay Horwitt is doing through Black Wall Street
Forward, they have been able to get Truist to
support their efforts to do Black Wall Street
initiatives throughout the entire state. Well,
I think it's like six different areas now in the
southeast that they're doing it. And they're actually
taking the stories of all of these folks in Durham.
Throughout the Southeast region of the country.
And that happened through the inspiration of what
we were doing at Provident 1898, and that was
super duper gratifying. And then we have another
member who used to be the chief financial, I mean,
the chief, legal officer of North Carolina Mutual Life,
He now runs a youth mentor program for high school
seniors and freshmen in surrounding schools that,
you know, you see 15 well-dressed, young black
men every other weekend walking in and out of
the building that the guy who runs this program,
the chief legal counsel guy, his great-grandfather
was one of the founders of the company. I mean,
It's not as good as money, but it's close. So
I'm really gratified to know that at the end of
the day, I'm paying it forward. I'm giving back.
And, you know, I've not said this publicly, but
a lot of the inspiration for even believing that
we could do something like this sort of came from
American tobacco. It came from, you know, MICHAEL
GOODMAN and prior to Michael, his dad's big vision,
And then Mike Hill, who was one of the early,
developers at American Tobacco, And It's really,
it sort of set the bar. And what's cool about
being on this panel is realizing that we You know,
we're doing a lot of different things, but a lot
of the same things, building our ecosystem. And
it's inclusive. And we're not having to work at
it. It's just who we are.
TREVOR: So this whole podcast should have just
been this. You're just like, keep telling me good
stories. I've been smiling over here the whole
time. Let's touch on that a little bit because
you're kind of talking about how y'all are working
towards, in many respects, the same common goal.
How do you think we're doing as a community in
the triangle here, fostering entrepreneurship?
What do you see as some of the challenges for
that? For entrepreneurs who are trying to get
started here in the triangle.
ALLISON: I think funding is a really huge challenge.
I mean, I think that there is so much potential
and there's a great community as far as connecting
entrepreneurs to each other, whether like broadly
or in, you know, in certain categories or interests.
I mean, this is me speaking personally, too, but
access to funding, I think, has not caught up
with all the great potential that we have here.
Yeah.
TIM: I think you're absolutely right. I think
that's what you'll hear directly from the entrepreneurs
consistently. I think the growth of the entrepreneurship
community here over the past few years, past 10
years, has been remarkable. And I think it has
still stayed a very close and supportive and non-competitive,
in a good way, community. A very supportive network
to be a part of. I think those are assets that
we have. I think it is growing rapidly and that
rapid change can be a risky time as well. And
so I think there's a lot of players in place,
ourselves included, and others who are working
to maintain that culture of collaboration within
the ecosystem, even as the triangle and the surrounding
region evolves so quickly. I think that a lot
of the time it does come back to high risk capital,
folks that are willing to invest in the earliest
stage companies. There's a few NC IDEA and a few
of the local firms, VC firms, who have been carrying
that for a long time, and there's room for growth
in that area.
CARL: Yeah, I would agree. I think, you know,
funding is a challenge, but I think also... Making
sure that we engage more people. We need to sort
of demystify entrepreneurship. And if you don't
have a tech inspired business, you somehow don't
see yourself in this market as a part of the entrepreneurial
ecosystem. And you very much are a part of that.
So we need to sort of break down some of those
barriers. And, you know, there's this sense of
lack at different times. You know, we don't fully
appreciate that we have enough of everything in
our community. We just need to figure out a different
way to deal with distribution of those resources.
There seems to be a great imbalance between the
haves and the have-nots on every level. And so
I think part of that is the work that we do collectively
around engagement. And giving people the opportunity
to talk to one another. To forge relationships
that go beyond just money, Money is important,
but those relationships and inclusion, I think
is just as important. But you gotta believe that
there's enough for everyone as opposed to, you
know, I got to get mine at your expense.
TREVOR: Now, are you seeing those success stories,
the people coming out of your community that have
a great success, are they coming back to invest
kind of in your community, in the companies that
come back? Do you see those kind of return players?
ALLISON: I don't think my community is old enough
to really have that story yet, but here's hoping.
TIM: I think within the tech community, we've
seen some really strong examples of that. I think
the folks in the tech world will be familiar with
the Tweener Fund and the Tweener List and Scott
Wingo's work in that area of rallying the growth
stage entrepreneurs and those who've exited to
invest back into the ecosystem. I think, Carl,
you were spot on that there's many people in the
triangle who are entrepreneurs who do not consider
themselves part of that startup ecosystem, the
tech ecosystem. And so I think within that world,
there are some great examples. I think we haven't
had a lot of, you call them exits in the startup
world, where folks sell for millions or billions
and have those resources then to put back into
the community. I think Bill Spruill is a recent
example of someone who has and whose company exit
made something like 25 millionaires in the region
who have been putting capital back into the early
stage entrepreneurship ecosystem. So I think there
is that story, but that positive feedback loop
takes... Years or decades to grow. And so we're
still building that.
TREVOR: So it's a story yet to come. It's coming.
Exactly.
CARL: Yep. But I do think that you see where it
may not always be money, you see a lot of human
capital and resources that are being brought to
bear. We also have Resilient Ventures,, which
is a small fund, and they are doing tremendous
work and specifically targeting some of these
same groups that are important to us. Bill Spruill
has been in the space quite a bit as well, looking
for ways to be supportive. The Rural Center, through
their NC Invest initiative, they've been involved.
And what I'm also realizing is that there's a
category of businesses that are business that
is really too small to take advantage of some
of the resources that exist. So I think, again,
there's a need to try to convince the funder,
to convince some of these smaller organizations
to come together so that they can receive the
kind of investment that it really needs. And that
really allows them to scale.
TREVOR: We're coming up on our time here and we
are the Founder Shares podcast and you all are
founders. I always like to ask our guests, if
you could share one piece of advice with someone
who's thinking about starting a company or who's
in the middle of that experience, what would that
piece of advice be?
TIM: I would say, So you frame that as people
who are thinking about starting a business, one
category. I think it's very easy to get stuck
in the step of thinking about it and being in
your own head and maybe doing your own Google
research and maybe mapping out a business plan
in a vacuum. And you can go for years with never
testing that idea. Or you can feel like, if I
say yes to this, I have to sink money and time
and resources and I have to make it a big success
right away. I think I would just say take that
first step. Start talking about your idea. Start
talking to people that care about you, but also
people that don't know you and people who will
give you real feedback and who will not just tell
you that they love it, but will also help you
understand if what you have is viable. And you
can't get that feedback if you're just thinking.
Okay.
CARL: I think entrepreneurship at times can be
overrated. It is just not as financially lucrative
at times as the images that you see through, especially
social media and your friends. We get. In this
performative kind of a mode where we talk it up.
And we go home and we eat saltines. And we try
to explain to our significant other that, hey,
just hold on, this is gonna be, this is gonna
work. I think that you need to understand yourself
and whether or not you can really fight against
all of the pressures to tell you to quit. And
if you have skills that make it easy for you to
get a job, then sometimes that becomes a crutch.
You don't feel like you absolutely have to make
this work or you're not going to eat. I'll just
go get a job. Personally, I tend not to do well
with those type of entrepreneurs because for me,
it's sink or swim. The other thing that I would
say at this stage of the game after 40 years in,
is really... Plan for the future and you're going
to probably have seasons that are going to be
drier and not as exciting and prosperous and tons
of money than what you actually realize. So stash
away as much as you can, keep as much dry powder
as you can because you're going to need it one
day.
TREVOR: I'll see you, Alison.
ALLISON: I would say seek out the people that
can work with you, collaborate with you, help
you, give you advice, and kind of make your way
to your minimum viable product rather than kind
of going both feet in. And sometimes a great way
to do that is at a coworking space. That's my
little plug. But I would say just talk to people
about it, kind of like what Tim said. Don't keep
it to yourself. Talk to people about it. Talk
to people who are going to doubt it. Talk to people
who are going to poke holes in it and really develop
that before you. Just full on take the plunge.
TREVOR: Appreciate it. Thanks so much for the
wisdom and advice. Thank you all for coming out
tonight and for participating here and just encourage
everybody who's in need of community, looking
to start a business and wants to get around like-minded
people. We've got some great opportunities and
great resources here. So thank you all for coming
out.
TIM: Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
TREVOR: Thanks for listening to this episode of
the Founder Shares podcast. If you're a founder
or business owner and need legal advice, be sure
to check out our team at HutchLaw.com. That's
HutchLaw.com. We have the capacity to help you
out with just about any legal need your company
may be facing. We're passionate about the innovation
economy and ready to help you on your entrepreneurial
journey. The show was edited and produced by Earfluence.
I'm Trevor Schmidt, and thanks for listening to
the Founder Shares podcast.
CARL: Thank you.