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Welcome to the FourMan Podcast, where four shop teachers step out of the classroom and into the booth to talk all things building, trades, and the people behind the tools. Each week, we welcome a surprise guest from the world of construction — from seasoned pros to rising stars — to share real stories, career insights, and the kind of shop talk you won’t hear anywhere else.
Whether you're a student just picking up your first hammer or a veteran foreman with sawdust in your veins, this podcast brings you humor, heart, and a heavy dose of hands-on wisdom. Just straight-up conversations built on blue-collar pride.
Join us as we build futures, one episode at a time.
Harvey Jesso (00:00)
once you get them, getting them to the site, they'll love it because once they see all like the cool tools and Let them use the skill saw
If you bring them to the site and you say, here's a broom and a garbage bag, you know what I mean? And it's 30 degrees out, you're not gonna wanna come back the next day. But if you throw them a nail gun, a skill saw, and a speed square and let them use a chop saw, before you know it, they're like, what? three or four o'clock already?
Noah Hughes (00:38)
Harvey Jesso You know him as the Maritime Carpenter. Myself and Ken had a chance to hang out with him in Rhode Island at JLC Live,
me and Ken immediately said we gotta have him on the podcast. He has the most interesting take on trades, life experience, and understanding of what it takes to make it in the trades. it's exciting to have you on,
You had a start in basically in workforce that
I guess high school or right at age I think nineteen is when you said, eighteen, nineteen?
Harvey Jesso (01:09)
well, originally it's it actually started my father and all his brothers. They were all carpenters or masons of some sort in the construction trade. So I guess it started for me really when I took the interest in the trades. I was actually 10, I think, when I showed up on my first construction site. They were building a house in my neighborhood. I kind of went over just kicking rocks and then asked if I could pick up blocks of wood or just do anything around the site, just more or less to be there to take up my summer.
And I was fortunate enough that the super of the project was, he's like, know what, how about we just have you clean up our site all summer and just kind of pick away at things and help the guys and stuff like that. So right from then, was like, yeah, 10 and I had an interest from it. But like I said, it's coming from my father and my uncles and stuff. I knew I was going to be in the trades. I never ever thought that I was going to be an entrepreneur, but
Yeah, so I kind of knew that I was going to be getting into carpentry or some sort of construction field, but carpentry, think was the biggest of it because my old man was a carpenter. And I just remember as a kid pulling and straightening nails, buckets and buckets and buckets and buckets and nails and just kind of getting through that and still wanting to do it. I'm like, yeah, this was this is kind of what I was meant to do. And then, yeah, and then as I went on the high after I left high school, I moved directly to Toronto as soon as I left Newfoundland.
Ken Shek (02:20)
up
Harvey Jesso (02:33)
⁓ which is far, far east. And then I started building houses in Ontario.
That was in 99, I guess.
Noah Hughes (02:40)
Nice.
Okay, so your dad did your dad work for somebody? Did most of your people in your family work for somebody?
Harvey Jesso (02:47)
⁓ No, my old man always had a construction business.
Noah Hughes (02:50)
His his own.
Harvey Jesso (02:52)
Exactly, yeah, but his construction business consisted of mainly masonry. ⁓ But then, so I would say it'd be like 6040 mason carpentry and stuff like that. So kind of in the slow season for the masonry, he would build houses and stuff like that.
Noah Hughes (03:08)
Do you feel like 'cause I often, you know, I wonder like ⁓ Ken and myself, like, you know, our background is family trades and everything like that, and that's kinda where we learned, that's kinda where everything took place. Do you feel like that's like the ideal place to learn?
Harvey Jesso (03:24)
a family definitely definitely helps because you're you're always around it and stuff like that. ⁓ But I know, like, I've taken on so I kind of work with the university. That's just down the street for me. And ⁓ I take students there that have never been around it ever, but they just really had an interest in it. So I think those students are the ones that you really want to, you know, to mold you and I mean, because
They don't know nothing about carpentry, but they just really want to absorb everything about it. And every student I've ever taken from the university, they were just super interested and they just absorbed everything I taught them and stuff like that. ⁓ yeah, they were end up being amazing. I think they can only work with me for six weeks and I talked to some, which would be probably four or five years later and they're still doing it. They still love it. So.
I think it's pretty much wherever you go out of the university or whoever your co-op teacher is, I think that helps a lot. know what I mean? Like, if they could stay away from the yelling and your typical construction foreman's and stuff like that, I think it could go far, but I think that's what scares a lot of them away.
Noah Hughes (04:20)
It
Are are these people that their goal is to go into a trade? Is like are they in school for that?
Harvey Jesso (04:46)
Exactly. They're in school for carpentry and then they send them out to us for six weeks. So we usually get them from the beginning of May till the middle of June. And so it's just like a six week trial run. And yeah, and every student I've had, I've known now like they're still doing it, which I probably had in the last seven years, probably about 10.
Noah Hughes (04:57)
Gotcha.
Harvey Jesso (05:09)
Yeah, so I mean, it works out good and I mean, they love it. it's, but like I said, it's I've had students that have never ever swung a hammer, never ever touched a tape, only ever read what they learn into a book and picking around at the university and stuff like that. But when you get them out on the site and stuff, obviously you're a little skeptical about letting them use certain tools and stuff like that because you know, you're nervous and they, you know, when they first pull the trigger and they jump back and you know,
Noah Hughes (05:09)
Nice.
Ken Shek (05:32)
table saws.
Harvey Jesso (05:37)
and table saws especially. Even to this day, even my guys, experienced guys, I still get nervous. yeah, no, think it's really on how you approach them and just really take your time with them, I feel like, and it helps a lot. Because you don't want them just to like the carpentry, you them to like the atmosphere that's around too, and you just want them to give your typical stereotypical...
you know, construction guy that's screaming and yelling all the time and throwing crap, right?
Noah Hughes (06:09)
Yeah, yeah. I think that was mine and Ken's upbringing.
Harvey Jesso (06:10)
because a lot of them when they left.
Ken Shek (06:13)
you
Harvey Jesso (06:13)
Yeah.
So fortunate that I've had every foreman or somebody I worked with where they were just excellent to work with. So I think that's why I stuck with it for so long. And that's what I'll die doing ⁓ is because I've been fortunate to work with some really, really good teachers, I guess.
I
Ken Shek (06:34)
Yeah, I definitely was brought up in the other side of that. I had a 28 ounce S-twin chucked at me from the rooftop.
Harvey Jesso (06:41)
Yeah. Yeah, no, it's true. And I mean, I'm not gonna lie. There's been times to where when I was first starting maritime carpentry, you know what mean? You get stressed sometimes and it does get away from you. You know what mean? Like I'm not, I'm not perfect. you do get yelling and get frustrated and stuff like that. But you know, it's how you take it at the end of the day, I guess. And
Ken Shek (06:46)
but that's just part of it.
Harvey Jesso (07:08)
You know, as long as you're take yourself accountable for the screaming and yelling and don't scare them away. You're all right.
Ken Shek (07:15)
Right? Because you can't do it by yourself, which leads into like a hundred percent. Like you're, I feel like you're really good at scaling your business. Like you find a need, you start a new business to fill that need. So you don't have to depend on other people, which is very interesting. Like how did you get to that point?
Harvey Jesso (07:18)
No, exactly. 100%.
Ken Shek (07:40)
Was it just that you needed something and you couldn't find it in your time frame? So you just decided to open up another business?
Harvey Jesso (07:49)
So I had originally started the carpentry business and I've had that for a while. And then what had happened was I had worked with an electrical company when I first started. We kind of started our businesses together and there was this one apprentice that was there and he was the one that always come out of my sites because I'd always hired the same company. And we just got along really, really well.
But he's coming up in his apprenticeship. So most cases that electricians and stuff like that. It's very rare that they stay with the same company after they get their red seal You know, 70 % of them either start on their own or just go work for a more industrial, like bigger company. And then so what had happened, this guy had approached me because I didn't have any thought about open electrical company, but never really.
put too much thought into it and then he had approached and then he had said, have you ever thought about it? And then I knew his work, I knew his work ethic. I'm like, you know what, if I'm gonna start an electrical company, this will be the guy that I would like to start it with because I know his quality of work. And yeah, so that's just kind of where it went. And then it was pretty much two weeks later, I went to the lawyers, got it all signed up, the corporation and stuff. And then that was almost six years ago.
And it's still
Noah Hughes (09:05)
do you feel like your your strength as far as like ⁓ I think a lot of people don't understand like the business aspect of it, right? I think for myself I had I was a contractor. I I I could understand the skill part of it, the business end I wasn't as good in. Do you think that like that's like your your area that you can really I obviously your work is amazing, but also like
Y you you just have a mind for business?
Harvey Jesso (09:28)
Um, yeah, well, I think rates like I started my first company when I was 18 years old. It was when I first moved to Toronto. Um, it's because I was doing piecework. So I went out, started a business, build a house. give us drawings. We build a house. Just kind of like that and so on and so forth. And then there were times where I worked for other companies, but I think I just, after having that business, I was kind of like, you know what? kind of like this working for myself. And then, uh,
Yeah, then it just kind of snowballed from there. And then it was a point where I was working out West, pipelining, like, for three years in the middle of the woods up in the Yukon, freezing my ass off. And then I kind of told the wife, I was like, this is once I finished this, ⁓ I'm going to come back and once I get laid off or fired or whatever, ⁓ I'm going to start maritime carpentry and
just hit that with everything. So everything I kind of made out there, not everything, but a portion of it, I put it all in the company and just kind of hope for the best. And that was in 2015. So, but yeah, and I don't miss freezing, I mean, it's off in the middle of the woods, minus 50. So, yeah.
Ken Shek (10:46)
Which that's a crazy story. But so you do have four businesses then? Like you have maritime carpentry.
Noah Hughes (10:46)
Yeah.
Harvey Jesso (10:49)
But yeah. Yes, so we maritime carpentry,
which was the first one. And then we started maritime electrical six years ago. And then I opened the kitchen shop ⁓ three years ago, Maritime Kitchens. And the reason I opened that is because I was installing cabinets for these big box stores like Home Depot, ⁓ Kent, which is our
big box store down here, which is comparable to Home Depot and a couple other ⁓ smaller ones. And I was bringing them quite a few like contracts a year. And then I was like, okay, well, this is going to be like my five year plan. I'm going to open my own store, sell my own cabinets, my own stone, my own faucet sinks, and just see what happens. But it just so happened that three years ago, I was driving down the street, me and the wife, and ⁓ I seen a building and I was like,
I'm like, that would be a perfect place to open the store. It's like, and it was for rent and the wife was just kind of like, you're right. And I was like, what? She's like, you're right. And I'm like, so literally I got home that night and I was like just emailing vendors and trying to get it figured out. And it just so happened that one of the biggest cabinet builders in New Brunswick was looking for a vendor in my city. And
Noah Hughes (12:03)
Thank you.
Harvey Jesso (12:15)
I got the lead from the person that I was buying my hardware off of and she said, call this number. She gave me his direct number and I called him and he was like, yeah, let's have some meetings and talk about it. And I had three meetings with them. It worked out really good in my favor because he followed me on social media. So as soon as I went into the meeting, he was like, oh yeah, I follow you on social media. I love your work. So he kind of was my reference.
So it worked out good and then yeah, we ended up working together and that was three years ago. And so now I have a storefront, which is probably three minutes from my house. And we just rented a big warehouse now for the cabinets because it's getting busy. So now we actually have the stock cabinets and stuff like that. And so that was that one. And then Maritime Clean Crew is the one we just started about, actually it'll be a year in August.
And then,
Noah Hughes (13:09)
So y
so you got your hands in everything with with employer employees, like what are what are the things that you're saying? So like obviously we teach young people and y you're somebody that hires a ton of young people. What what are you looking for? What like what's like a standout employee that can really grow?
Harvey Jesso (13:26)
⁓ Definitely like ambition. Like I feel like, so like right now I'm building a fourplex. So four townhouse, two story building. ⁓ So now I have, well I got my first student on Monday. He starts on Monday when I get back from vacation, I get another one. So these are just like 15, 16 year olds looking for summer jobs that are, they talk to me and they, well they don't talk to me. It's my daughter is their age and.
They know I own companies and they hang out with stuff like that, but they're interested in doing the carpentry or electrical or just getting into the trades. And ⁓ so I was kind of like, yeah, just tell them to give me a call. So I got two students that are starting with me this summer that are interested in it and they seem excited. So the first student I have, he likes it. I mean, he shows up to work every day, but it's just the 15 year old mentality. You know I mean?
trying to get them past that little bit of hard work, I guess is what I'm trying to say. But once you get them there and you try to make it fun for them, then it helps a little bit. So once you start letting them use the tools and stuff like that and nail guns and stuff like that, obviously, you know, I have the guys that are always monitoring them and stuff like that to make sure everything is good. And ⁓ then they seem to like it. So this student that I have that started on Monday,
second day today and he's like really interested in stuff like that and you know I show him how to read a measuring tape and you know swing a hammer so I kind of start him off with the small things of kind of what I used to have to do so if we pull boards or braces I'm like pull the nails out of that clean up the cutoffs and stuff and you know snap yeah snap some lines with us and put you know your poly or your vapor barrier on your your walls and stuff so
But he seems to like it and one that starts when I get back from vacation, he seemed very excited about too. So, but like I said, once the 30 degree weather hit hits and there's no shade and no breeze, and that's really a number I'm going to have to try to keep them in, you know what I mean? And interest it. Because there is some some negatives of the job, but those are those are the types that are the only really negatives of it is getting them to work through 30 degree weather and
Noah Hughes (15:43)
Well.
Harvey Jesso (15:52)
like things like that, because they're not used to being uncomfortable. You know what mean?
Ken Shek (15:56)
Right.
Harvey Jesso (15:57)
Kids nowadays are.
Noah Hughes (15:58)
Do you think that they
go in do you think they go into it with like a misconception of what actually is going on? And then they they actually do you think young people as a whole would enjoy it more than they kind of let on to?
Harvey Jesso (16:10)
I think so. think once you get them, getting them to the site, like, they'll love it because once they see all like the cool tools and stuff like that, and you let them, you know, hammer, like use the nail gun and stuff like that, you know I mean? To them, it's just like, you know, to hear that pop, it's like, wow, this is amazing. Or, you know, you're running the big 12 inch chop saw, or then you start getting them to use their tools, like, you know what I mean? Teaching them how the tools work, like your speed squares. And you know what I mean? Let them use their, the skill saw or something like that, or.
You know, I think it's trying to make them feel accomplished. You know what mean? So at the end of the day, they could look back and be like, oh, you know what I helped like I help with that. But or like building a house, you know what I mean? Like what kid doesn't like to sit back at the end of a new building like, oh, wow, like I had a hand in building that. You know what I mean? And then they take that back to their friends and they're like, you know, this is crazy. And I guarantee you every time that kid drives by that construction site, he's going to be like, that's what I did. Hundred percent.
And then their adrenaline starts kicking in and then before you know it, they're like, what? It's three o'clock,
the thing is that I get up super early and I'm on the go. like five or 530 in the morning.
I said, if you can get them to the site, you're already doing amazing. You know what mean?
Noah Hughes (17:27)
Yeah, and I think a lot of people don't capitalize don't take the opportunity. I know it's an investment. I know there's a cost to invest in young people, pull ⁓ in and everything, young, but I think the payoff is huge. I know the builders that I work with that have worked with young people from my class, now they're basically starting to see the effect and having
Young people come on excited and then kinda getting somebody before bad habits and stuff have formed. So ⁓ Adam was kind enough to join us.
Adam Kennard (17:56)
have a ⁓ I'm the one with little kids. So I have a nine month old and a four four year old. So yep. I'm s yes, yes. Yeah, and the four year old is a little sick right so I was I I out of good conscience I could not abandon my wife
Harvey Jesso (18:03)
OK, so you're squeezing us in.
Noah Hughes (18:09)
Ha ha ha.
Harvey's daughter's wedding today, so I mean, we all we all got excuses.
Adam Kennard (18:20)
seriously?
Harvey Jesso (18:20)
Yeah.
They're actually out in the yard right now waiting for me to walk her down the aisle.
Adam Kennard (18:23)
That's
Ken Shek (18:26)
You
Harvey Jesso (18:28)
What?
Adam Kennard (18:28)
It's like,
all right, give your advice and let's go, Dad.
Noah Hughes (18:32)
so
Adam Kennard (18:32)
so I run ⁓ an after school program where we teach fifth through twelfth graders how to use power tools. in our shop we have four values: be teachable, be on time, be positive, and give your best effort. and we try to teach that ⁓ every day, all day long.
Long
what age groups because Noah was saying that you do ⁓ some ⁓ job development. Yeah, okay.
Noah Hughes (18:53)
He hires people.
He was just s he was just talking about how he hires young people, so like ⁓ fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, kids his daughter's age. So, ⁓
Harvey Jesso (18:56)
Yeah.
Adam Kennard (19:03)
Awesome.
Harvey Jesso (19:03)
Yeah, exactly. And then
I take some students from the university as well once a year and they're usually early 20s. actually, majority are early 20s, but I've had some like 40, mid 40 year olds and stuff like that that were actually just getting into it. ⁓ Two years ago, I had a banker from Brazil that was 46 years old that come and work for me.
He did banking his whole life and he always wanted to do carpentry and he packed up and moved to Canada and started carpentry and he was going to school for it.
Adam Kennard (19:38)
That's awesome.
Harvey Jesso (19:39)
So that
was wild. And I'm like, how did you end up here? Yeah, he actually works for, ⁓ I hired him after school and he worked with me for two years. And then it was something to do with his visa or something like that, that he went with, ended up going with a bigger commercial company doing it. now he kind of, he's probably not doing what he'd like to do, but the bigger commercial company, they're just more or building hoardings and stuff like that.
Noah Hughes (19:40)
Did it work out?
Harvey Jesso (20:07)
like, because it's a bigger construction site. So he's still doing carpentry, I guess, probably not like, but not building houses or like what we do anymore. But it's still labeled as carpentry, I guess.
Noah Hughes (20:18)
Well, good on him for at least, you know, I think a lot of times people will just settle for being miserable in their job and then not wanna experience something different. So good on him for that.
Harvey Jesso (20:20)
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was crazy because he showed up so, so happy every day. Just like, think I could have had him build them bird houses and he would have been still happy. Like he was just so happy to be doing carpentry. Like it was amazing after doing, doing ⁓ like banking his whole life. He said it was just kind of like a switch that went and they just, yeah, he pursued it. So was like, I was pretty blown away by that story on how it doesn't really matter how old you are.
Adam Kennard (20:28)
Chao.
Harvey Jesso (20:56)
You know, if you want to do it, just do it right? Yeah.
Adam Kennard (21:00)
Right.
Noah Hughes (21:00)
Yeah, yeah. I teach a night class at the community college, which in the States, you know, like they have community college everywhere, it's affordable college and b they just have certification programs. And the majority of the students there are just trying to sw they're trying to get out of their career. They work for the government, which is very big in our area, and it's a very boring job, most of the government jobs. And most of them are like, I just can't take it anymore, like I'm done. I want to do something that has some meaning. And I think it's the same feeling that young people have, like
I think we have a problem being in the schools. Young people are stuck on their computers and they're just done with it. They're just like, I don't enjoy it. So then they step into our classes and they're like, ⁓ or they step onto your job site, Harvey, and they're Yeah, this is cool. Like, I actually feel something. Like I feel I feel happy when I work. I feel happy when I've accomplished something. I feel like everyone's just kinda searching for that. And I mean the nice thing is is it's you can still make a very good living, you know? So, you know
Harvey Jesso (21:55)
Exactly. And I think
it's just going to get better. You know I mean? ⁓ trades, I feel like it's getting promoted a lot more now in the last three or four years. You know what I mean? It's just everybody's putting it out there, trying to get the young people in, get the young people in. So think everybody's being, when you do get somebody that's ambitious about it, they're a little more friendlier about it. They'll answer a lot more questions about it.
Adam Kennard (22:09)
Yeah.
Harvey Jesso (22:20)
You know, as we're before, it was just kind of like, you know, get away from me. Now it's just kind of like, you're interested. Okay, this isn't this and this, how it works and stuff like that. And like what I do on my sites is like, if I get a student in, I always try to teach them what I think they might learn into a class when they go back to like high school and they do, you know, Shop class and stuff like that. I kind of have a sense for what tools they might use. So.
When they go back, they could kind of be like, oh yeah, I know how to do that. I know how to do that. So that kind of excites them because then they could teach the other kids in their class that are just getting into it or something like that. So it kind of gives them a little bit of an edge on the other kids and it makes them a little more excited about it because they could teach kids their age about it. never done it because they worked on a site all summer learning the tools and stuff like that. So I think that's pretty good. And that hopefully overflows into when they graduate and
make the money get into the trades more.
Adam Kennard (23:15)
So would you the kind of what you were just talking about, do you ⁓ just through relationships, is that where just neighbors, friends, us knuckleheads, other people in your community, is that where you get connected to the youth that like you br have brought on to the job site and things like that?
Harvey Jesso (23:34)
Yeah,
Ken Shek (23:35)
He's just kind of a really big deal so everyone knows about him in his area.
Harvey Jesso (23:38)
Yeah,
Adam Kennard (23:38)
That's
Harvey Jesso (23:39)
that's right. It's just, I just like showing up at the door like you're hired, you're hired. Yes. Exactly. I've been working with the university. Exactly.
Ken Shek (23:44)
Got a job for you, got a job for you, and a job for you! I'll start that company so you have a job.
Noah Hughes (23:45)
Ha ha ha. ⁓
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Jesso. Thank you. Thank you.
Harvey Jesso (23:57)
Yeah, no, that's definitely not the case.
I think I take on more students and young and younger ones hoping that when they finish school, they come work for me because we have such a hard time finding guys. So I guess in my way, it's like, start molding you now at like 15 and 16. So when you actually do go to school, you're like, ⁓ maritime carpentry. Yeah, I'll go work for that guy. Instead of as soon as they get their red seal, it's like, OK, see you. You know what mean? I'm going to Home Depot and getting a $50,000 loan and start my own company and.
Adam Kennard (24:09)
Hm.
Right.
Harvey Jesso (24:27)
So, which I don't have anything against that because obviously I just, I mean, it's like, but it's really, really hard to find red seal carpenters or anybody that, you know what I mean? Like with any sort of trade experience. So
Noah Hughes (24:41)
Maybe I'm the odd one out here. What red seal? I don't know what that term is.
Harvey Jesso (24:45)
it's just when you get your license for carpentry. So ⁓ it's four years schooling for carpentry. So they call it a red seal ticket down here.
Noah Hughes (24:49)
Okay. I I get
Okay, I gotcha. They in the s in the states in the states you just have to have a busted up pickup truck and a dog is a dog is preferred, but they just let anybody be a carpenter. Case in point, I'm teaching this stuff.
Harvey Jesso (24:55)
Yeah, so it's just kind of like a stamp saying that you've done the schooling and stuff like that.
Yeah. Yeah. You don't need
Ken Shek (25:11)
Hahaha!
Harvey Jesso (25:14)
the Red Seal, but it's definitely a huge asset, My two guys, like my main guys are not Red Seal carpenters. They're just really good carpenters. Right. So it's just, but I mean, if you have a Red Seal, it's like, say if you were starting a new company, it'll kind of look, you could kind of use that as like a gimmick, I guess. Right. But
Noah Hughes (25:25)
I gotcha.
Adam Kennard (25:36)
Yeah.
Noah Hughes (25:36)
Yeah,
yeah.
Harvey Jesso (25:37)
I got nothing to say in red seals. It's amazing ticket to have and it's really good schooling for it and stuff like that. It definitely helps for sure. like I said, red seals are usually working for themselves and have their own companies. That's why I have to hire non-red seal carpenters because there isn't any around.
But like I said, my guys don't have Red Seals. My electricians all do because that you do have to have Red Seal tickets to work on anything electrical. Same thing with plumbing, but carpentry, which is super weird. They'll just let you show up with your pickup truck and your thermos and go right to work.
Noah Hughes (26:21)
It it's pro it's pretty similar here as far as that. You can be pretty much a carpenter. I mean you can have your contractor's license, which is separate, but if you want to be like a master electrician or a master plumber or a journeyman for either one, you have to go through both schooling and ha and show a certain number of hours. But even for like I have my contractor's license, I just had to show a certain number of hours for a licensed contractor as like a general contractor. So which everything for my stuff falls under carpentry. So it's probably pretty similar as far as that.
Harvey Jesso (26:37)
Exactly.
Exactly,
Noah Hughes (26:50)
I was talking trash about the US moments ago, but I'm gonna take that back. So.
Harvey Jesso (26:54)
Yeah.
Adam Kennard (26:54)
Yeah.
you were talking about working with like fourteen, fifteen. Are you able to pay them to do work with y'all in Canada?
Harvey Jesso (27:06)
Yeah. Yes.
Noah Hughes (27:07)
Are you trying to figure
out how to not pay somebody at them?
Adam Kennard (27:09)
No, well, so we're actually we're in the process of creating a ⁓ workforce development program and ⁓ we're ⁓ well, here's the nutshell real fast. We wanna pay kids, but we can't pay them till they're eighteen because of child labor laws. There's a couple exemptions, ⁓ and so we're working on the exemptions. So I was just curious. So the exemptions will get us down to sixteen years old to where we can
Ken Shek (27:14)
Okay.
Noah Hughes (27:15)
I'm sorry.
Harvey Jesso (27:17)
He
Noah Hughes (27:18)
Yeah.
Adam Kennard (27:36)
put people through ⁓ so our organization is bigger than this just my program and we already have workforce development for like other programs in general but we want to start including the trades and try to figure out how to do that to also pay kids
technically have a fourteen year old volunteering and put power tools in their hand, put on a roof and no one cares. but the moment you give ⁓ any type of reimbursement, everyone is waving flags. So
Harvey Jesso (27:58)
Yeah.
Yes,
Well, here, 14 years old, you could start and there's no, they don't pay. So I could put them on the payroll, but they just don't pay into anything. So they don't get tax or anything like that. ⁓ So it's just kind of straight pay at minimum wage. So, yeah, because my daughter, she's been on the payroll for. ⁓ Since she was 14 years old and then.
Adam Kennard (28:08)
Okay.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
Harvey Jesso (28:33)
But yeah, so that's the only thing. So they'll still get their pay stubs. It's just that it's just straight pay with minimum wage. And that's it. And I think once they turn 17, I'm pretty sure, maybe 18, then it all starts. Then they start getting all their deductions taken out, their pension and But I think 14 is when they could actually start being on the books. But the students that I hire, I don't put them on the books.
Adam Kennard (28:58)
That's
Harvey Jesso (29:01)
I usually just pay them cash. Plus they're 15 years old, Friday, know, a of cash in your hand, they get pretty, that also makes them wanna come back to work on Monday.
Adam Kennard (29:14)
Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome.
Ken Shek (29:15)
100%.
Noah Hughes (29:15)
Heck yeah.
Adam Kennard (29:17)
Yeah, I mean w I I see that like because my program spans so many years, because we're like fifth, sixth grade is when they can start depending you know, all the way to seniors, ⁓ we see a lot of interest sometimes in the middle school years. But then as they can like get a job and they get older or basketball seems more interesting, like our our attrition rate to, you know, our sophomore junior seniors for us drops pretty heavily.
So we're trying to figure out different paths. I mean money is always an interesting thing, or also just you know develop more interesting pr ⁓ projects, things like that that might keep kids around. ⁓ trying to trying to just develop something
Harvey Jesso (30:00)
Exactly.
Adam Kennard (30:03)
like to cast a vision of what like their life could be, ⁓ and for them to like actually last on to that.
Harvey Jesso (30:07)
Yes.
Adam Kennard (30:09)
had a I ate breakfast with an alumni student who's twenty years old that's applying to do ⁓ in the mill work carpentry union. I mean we're in Pittsburgh. dude, i if you work your butt off, you could own a house in five years. he's made some dumb choices already, so
Harvey Jesso (30:25)
yeah, we've all made dumb decisions, but it takes a while. I was, started starting my own, my first business when I was, like I said, 18 years old. And that was like three, probably three or four years. And then there was kind of broke up in between that and stuff like that where I went away. And then when I come back and I was kind of really committed to what I kind of have right now and where it's going.
Noah Hughes (30:25)
So
Adam Kennard (30:36)
That's awesome.
Harvey Jesso (30:52)
So, and I think that was like 30 when I started that, so.
Noah Hughes (30:53)
Yeah, so to
Harvey, you've accomplished some amazing stuff. Like you're super fun to be around. It sounds like to work for you would be amazing, all those things. So Adam will probably be applying for a job. The he was asking about salary. But what can a what can a young person be doing now?
Harvey Jesso (31:06)
You
Noah Hughes (31:13)
If their goal is to get where you've gotten What what's like some advice that you would give a young person?
Harvey Jesso (31:18)
I would say, like I said, absorb everything that somebody tells you into the trade. ⁓ Like that was huge. Like I think, ⁓ like the people that like taught me and stuff like that, I kind of just took everything with a grain of salt. And, you you got to have a really positive attitude and, you know, try not to let your feelings get hurt too much.
because I guess what you've got to try to do is get into the head of the actual contractor, because some of them could be pretty brutal. But if you could get past that, you know what I mean? It's really good. And it's not going to happen overnight. Obviously, they're kids. They've got to go through the transitions of life. So there's going to be points where they're going to be like, I'm just not making enough money, or Johnny down the road is making $4 more an hour than me.
working at Costco or whatever, you know I mean? It just takes time to get there. I would say just take your time, don't rush. It'll eventually happen, But I think right now trades are gonna be huge, you know I mean? It's gonna be where it's at because the university that I work with is just pushed and everybody I talk to, all the young kids I talk to, mainly male, are carpentry or electrical.
I don't know if they're pushing it more in actual high school, but I feel like it's going to be huge. It's going to be a higher level of a career than what it was portrayed to be 20 years ago. And I think with all this stuff and all the social media now that kids are on, it's good. I feel like as long as you ask lots of questions to the right people, obviously, right?
Noah Hughes (32:54)
Yeah.
Harvey Jesso (33:08)
I think that that helps a lot too. But like I said, it's not going to happen overnight. You know what mean? Like I had a lot of learning curves where I was just like, you know, screw this. I'm going back in the pipeline. This is too hard. And then I kind of just kind of woke up, get my head of shake and just be like, okay, let's just give it another day. Give it another day. Give it another day. And just got past it to where now this is my life. You know what mean? And that's, that's it. You know what I mean? And you can work hard for it. Like I said, it's the harder you work, obviously.
the more you'll get. I just think just take your time and just let it happen. know what mean? And just don't be afraid to ask questions and just listen to, just listen.
Noah Hughes (33:47)
I love it. Incredible advice. Harvey, you're probably one of the coolest people we know. And honestly, hanging out with you that night with all those people, all the Canadians, I've realized that, you know, the Canadians are where it's at. They're like the they're like the most fun. They're like the most welcoming, kind group of people. Speaking of which, the World Cup is going on, so Canada's got a US soccer coach. Hopefully they do well. Do you follow soccer at all?
Harvey Jesso (33:53)
I appreciate it.
Ken Shek (34:01)
Right.
Harvey Jesso (34:10)
Yeah.
I do. have been because I'm going to be there next week. So I just kind of want to figure out what I'm talking about. You know what mean? So if somebody talk, I'm going there to see the Jays because there's two Jays games while I'm there, but it is going to be mayhem while I'm there. So and the ticket prices are just insane. So I won't be going to a game.
Noah Hughes (34:18)
Really?
Well y'all have two Y'all have two
Canadian superstars. there's two c soccer players that y'all have that are absolutely amazing. ⁓ but anyways. I can't thank you enough for everything. Appreciate it.
Harvey Jesso (34:43)
I really