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“Leaving the industry better than I found it”-Dave Foy
Each week, Dave sits with a panel of guests to discuss the topic of the week. From Coaching for Success to Sales vs. Service, Dave talks to the industry and professional leaders that can bring their insight and knowledge to the viewers.
Our W.E. A.R.E Feature airs on the third Thursday of the month and spotlights Women in Fixed Ops and how they are changing the industry and leading the charge to a better customer experience.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Oh, we have a very exciting day.
Russell Hill: All right!
Stephanie Wedgeworth: special guest, Jessica Smith. She's gonna kick us off with her
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Her journey that she's been on lately.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Of, career change, and…
Russell Hill: Right on.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: This girl is
Stephanie Wedgeworth: got her hands in everything. I don't know how she does it, really. I feel like such an underachiever.
Dave Foy: There was one person who was in the other room for right now, Stephanie, so if you wanna get going, and I'm gonna… I'm gonna.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Okay.
Dave Foy: And log on another account so I can be in there if anybody jumps in.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Okay, okay, cool. Well, welcome, everybody, and thank you so much for being here today. My name's Stephanie Wedgworth, if you can't read the screen. I'm happy that you guys have joined us today, because we have a very special day, very special guest.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: And I first want to thank our sponsor, IntelliCheck, for making this possible, for us to…
Stephanie Wedgeworth: grab some time on our calendars and get on this virtual call, and share and support and mentor each other, and I'm just really excited that I have
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Jessica Smith with us today. She is…
Stephanie Wedgeworth: A busy, busy woman. She is the CEO and founder of Grit & Grace Company, vice president of Wokan, Women of Color Automotive Network, and the voice behind the Lead Like a Girl podcast.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: You are amazing. With 30… nearly 30 years of experience across entrepreneurship.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: corporate leadership, Jessica has led national teams, built thriving businesses, and mentored women into impactful leadership roles. Her journey from teen mother to Fortune 500 director is a powerful story.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: of resilience, grit, and grace, and I am honored to know her and call her a friend.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Today, we are going to be talking about Jessica's journey, how she's been navigating this slow job market after experiencing job loss twice in her lifetime.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Once very devastatingly, and once with resilience, she is gonna share what she's learned about fake job posts, and ghosted interviews, and how to build emotional and financial resilience.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Through it all.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: So, thank you, Jessica, for being here today. We're so grateful, I cannot wait to have this conversation, and as always, everybody feel free to jump in, ask questions, and, I'm gonna kick it off with,
Stephanie Wedgeworth: letting Jessica… did I miss any… anything? I mean, there's so much. I could have gone on for probably 20 minutes if I skipped probably three-fourths of all the things that this… this woman's got her hands in. Jessica, did you… did I miss anything? I mean, I know I missed a lot, but is there any.
Russell Hill: That was a one… no, that was an awesome intro.
Jessica Smith: Yes, it was, and thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. This is my first time here. I'm sure it won't be the last, but I'm just grateful that you invited me to come on and just share my story and just have a conversation.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Yeah, so, Jessica, I know that,
Stephanie Wedgeworth: I don't even… I kind of… I've been with you through at least this last… job market, yeah.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: seeking your new job, your new career, and your… this job market, but I did not know that this has happened twice. So take us back to that moment when,
Stephanie Wedgeworth: when you were laid off, was it… did that happen in 2016 also? Was it a laid-off situation as well?
Jessica Smith: Yeah, so the situation, I will try to make a long story short, but I started my sales career really young, because I was a teen mom at 15, and really had to just get out in the job market, dropped out of high school, and started working. My first job, fun fact, was actually selling cars, even though I call myself not a car girl.
Jessica Smith: And I did very well. It was an independent dealership in Paducah, Kentucky. Shout out to Paducah, if anyone knows where that is. But I did well, didn't like it, but had a long sales career in the home remodeling and furnishing
Jessica Smith: franchise world. A very similar, I learned later, culture like, retail. Very… I mean, the hours, the culture, very, very similar. And I grew up in that business. Thankfully, ran across two brilliant
Jessica Smith: mentors that just mentored me, not just in business, in leadership, in sales, but in life, and just learning how to run
Jessica Smith: just a business and life with honesty and integrity, and I was very thankful for that. And they were grooming me to be their succession plan. So, we grew a business in Chicago, they moved me to California.
Jessica Smith: And almost at my 20-year mark, we were $3 million into our build-out of our state-of-the-art showroom in San Francisco, and this 75-year-old company sold to a private equity and decided to change their business model away from the franchise model. So they shut down 160 showrooms in the US and Canada, including the one that my husband and I were soon to own.
Jessica Smith: So, devastated is an understatement, and that was really my life plan. Decided not to go back to school, not to go to college, because I was doing so well. We had just built our dream home out in Monterey, California, and…
Jessica Smith: we were just living the life, and it all came crashing down. In 30 days, we were pretty much done with no plan of what else I was going to do. So, that was the… that was the first layoff.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Wow, that's… I got a chill, I can't even imagine. Because at that time, there… you had a family.
Jessica Smith: Yeah, not just a family. My husband and I both, were taking care of a lot of people. We both come from a family of nothing, and there were a lot of people depending on us, and so that was probably the most challenging part, but… and I had no concept of a network. That's the other thing. I didn't know what that meant.
Jessica Smith: I come from a very performance-driven environment. No one knew or cared who you were unless you outperformed the room. And this concept of, it's all about who you know, was very foreign to me.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: I mean, I can't even imagine. So how did you navigate that? Like, how… what… what… how do you frame your mindset in that moment to say, okay, these are the next steps that I need to take?
Jessica Smith: Yeah, again, I was devastated. I mean, we talk about, I just did a podcast episode on grief, and even though we were talking about grief from, you know, losing loved ones.
Jessica Smith: a job, and a job that was absolutely everything to me. I loved my job, the people I work with, I consider them family, and losing that, I…
Jessica Smith: that was grief, and I was just… I was brokenhearted, and I didn't know what the heck I was gonna do. So there was a little small moment of…
Jessica Smith: I was drowning. I don't want to say that I was depressed, because I don't participate in that, but I was in a dark place, and I just remember having a… we had a condo in Santa Clara that we had to sell to live off of that money, and then finally we had to sell our home, and I tried everything I could to find a job in Silicon Valley, but, you know, you're competing with salespeople
Jessica Smith: that have degrees from Stanford, and, it just wasn't happening. No one cared that I had all this experience, that I had built award-winning sales teams. It was just no, no, no, and more no's. And so,
Jessica Smith: When we had to sell our home, again, this was my dream, to be able to build a beautiful home, and…
Jessica Smith: My husband was just like, listen, we both came from nothing. If we can do this.
Jessica Smith: once, we can do it again. Like, you're gonna have a bigger home, a better home, and he really just encouraged me, and I'm just thankful for having a partner that I'm always the person encouraging and motivating, and he encouraged and motivated me.
Jessica Smith: And, we moved to Atlanta, and I found a job, and again, it was…
Jessica Smith: while we can give you an entry-level sales job, you don't have a degree, and I'll never forget it. I was insulted, and I said, absolutely not. You just… did you see my resume? Like, you offered me a job.
Jessica Smith: making $56,000 a year, and even in 2017, that was crazy. So I declined the offer. We sold our last property, and we moved to the Atlanta area because I had family.
Jessica Smith: That lived here. And, I think it was about a month later, my husband said, you need to humble yourself, and you need to call them back.
Jessica Smith: and tell them, you will take that job. And you just go in there, and you show them who you are, and you will get where you're supposed to be. And so that's… that's… that's what I did, but it was… it was definitely challenging going back after all of my experience and success, and taking an entry-level sales job where I was sitting on the phone, banging the, you know, banging the phones again.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: That's amazing. I love that you had such a supportive partner. I mean, that is definitely… that's so huge, to have somebody to say.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Sometimes, you know, I feel like that's what's so special when you have a really good partner. They can reflect back, right? They can… they… it's almost like you're… they say partnership is like a mayor, and sometimes you need that mayor to turn around and say, hey, wait a minute, let's… let's… let's take another look at this.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: And I love that your husband was able to do that for you. So, 2016, that happened. Then we fast-forward.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: 8 years later, and…
Jessica Smith: here we are again. Well, and you know, here's the other thing, too. I remember going in, and as soon as I started working, there was someone that sat next to me, and I… every day at lunchtime, she would be busy doing something, and my mom used to call me nosy, and I said, no, I was just curious.
Jessica Smith: And to this day, I'm just a question asker, and I asked, I said, you know, I notice every day at lunch, I'm like, what are you doing?
Jessica Smith: And she shared with me that she was getting her degree, that the company paid.
Jessica Smith: For you to get a degree. And I'm like, really? And I'm like, well, that's the reason I'm in this seat, sign me up! And immediately, I went to work to,
Jessica Smith: I had gotten my high school diploma some years later, but went to get my business leadership degree right away. And so, I'm so glad that I did that, and I just took all the lessons, and I put them into action right away. You know, even though we had a rental property, that was probably the only, great
Jessica Smith: business decision, financial decision that we made. Another thing I'm passionate about is just sharing information about financial literacy, because my husband and I did not have that. We both came from nothing, and you give someone that comes from nothing, six figures, and
Jessica Smith: what do you do? You go to the Gucci store and the Louis Vuitton store, and you buy Jordans and all the other crazy stuff. And I'm just… that's… that was the big mistake, but what we did well is we bought real estate, and that really, helped us. We still ended up having to file bankruptcy and pretty much lost everything, but…
Jessica Smith: that financial piece was an area that I said, okay, what did we learn? Because I don't want this to just be failure. I want this to be lessons. What did we learn?
Jessica Smith: We learned that you can't spend everything you got. We learned that if you want to splurge and have nice things, it should be money outside of the money that you earn through a job. We learned that your 9-to-5 should not be your only, engine for revenue in your household. All of these things. We learned that even though I thought I didn't need a college degree because I was making so much money.
Jessica Smith: I didn't until I did. And that piece of paper, even if it wasn't… even if it was just to check a box, I needed to check that box. And so, I kept going, and even after I got the first degree, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna get another one. And I got a master's, and I was gonna keep going as long as they would have keep…
Jessica Smith: kept paying. So, all of those things meant something, and I'm just so grateful, because when it came, and I did not think that it would come again, but I always felt like, just in case. And I also thought, you know, I'm a sales leader.
Jessica Smith: I'm in an organization, I'm performing, I'm building a brand, I'm doing all the things of every corporate America book that I've read and every mentor that I had. Surely this won't happen to me again, and I was wrong. And it happened again. The difference is that,
Jessica Smith: I'm not freaking out because we're living off of credit cards, and I'm not freaking out because, you know, how are we gonna pay our mortgage? And I'm not freaking out because that paycheck was the only revenue that the Smith household had coming in every month, and all of those things that
Jessica Smith: I can go through this transit. Am I grieving? Absolutely. Did it sting? Absolutely. But I'm working through it very differently than the first time.
Russell Hill: Wow.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: So great.
Russell Hill: What an amazing…
Russell Hill: amazing, comeback, and I've been through some, and probably a lot of people have. I used to think it was about making as much money as I could, and then I realized the level of my debt seemed to rise to the level of my income.
Jessica Smith: And I was, you know, a month away from losing it all, and of course, it happened a couple times as well, but then I learned a lot about financial literacy instead of…
Russell Hill: Me, working for money, how to make money work for me.
Jessica Smith: Good.
Russell Hill: Great story, Jessica. Thank you. I'm sure there's a lot more to it to come, so thank you for sharing that.
Jessica Smith: Thank you.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Yeah, it's so powerful. Financial literacy is something that, I mean, that should be a class.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: You have to pass.
Russell Hill: They don't, they don't even teach it! I mean, I mean, it's ridiculous, they don't teach that in school. But yeah, yeah, I agree.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: So, so true, because that is so important, and you don't really realize
Stephanie Wedgeworth: how important it is until it's too… until it's too late, you know? When you're in the weeds is when you're like, oh, wow, okay, I should have done a whole bunch of things a lot differently. So, yeah, thank you for sharing that. So, now… now that you're here.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: And you're much more prepared than you were before.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: What have been some of the job search
Stephanie Wedgeworth: I mean, what have been some of the experiences that you've… you've experienced so far? Like, I know… I know that right now this market is crazy. The world is crazy. The way you apply for a job is so, so different than what you… I mean, before, you made a resume, you did a cover letter, you sent it in, a human read it!
Jessica Smith: Is that right?
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Now it's not that way, it's a totally different world. How are you navigating all that, and what are some of the experiences that you've seen?
Jessica Smith: Yeah, well, the first thing I'll say is that, the senior level roles are scarce, and they're highly competitive.
Jessica Smith: I'll say that. And, you know, there's two schools of thought. Some people are like, just get a job, right? Just get some money coming in, just get a job.
Jessica Smith: And my thought process is, I don't want to waste my time, and I don't want to waste the person's time who's going to be training me or spending time with me. And I didn't just work for almost
Jessica Smith: 30 years and get a business leadership degree and a master's in psychology and all the things that I've done to take another entry-level sales job. So that's just where I'm at today. But, you know.
Jessica Smith: Job listings. There's been evidence that some of them are not even real.
Jessica Smith: There's this…
Jessica Smith: ghosting happening from recruitment to even the final stages of interviews from hiring managers that is just absolutely unacceptable to me. In places where maybe you do have a good network.
Jessica Smith: And people are just gonna pass you through just as a favor to someone, knowing that they have no intention of hiring you.
Jessica Smith: which, again, is awful to get someone's hopes up and waste their time. So, you know, you apply for hundreds of jobs, and they just…
Jessica Smith: your application goes into, a black hole. So all of those things, are happening, and
Jessica Smith: I've never experienced them, never heard of them, but again, I've had two jobs in my entire career, or 2 companies, I should say. So, I think that, we think
Jessica Smith: jobs provide stability, and I always… now I say, but in today's world, they don't always. What provides stability is strategy. And so, I try to focus a little more on that, and I did do the thing where I was just like.
Jessica Smith: going through all of these inter… I mean, applications, and I really stopped doing that, and I started just going back and saying, you know, I spent the last 8 years really building a brand for myself, and… and building a network, and to the point where not just that people know me, but I've…
Jessica Smith: made it where they've experienced me, and I think that's where it's a little different, where someone can speak to your gifts and your talents, and how they experienced you working on a project or what have you. So, really just leaning in, and all the opportunities that I have in my…
Jessica Smith: pipeline right now, they are with people who referred me, highly recommended me for a role before I started the interview process. And that's what I recommend people to do, because I just think this
Jessica Smith: apply, apply, apply. It just gets you to a place where, it's just taxing mentally.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Yeah, you know, Jessica, you are really… I just… I mean, again, I feel very fortunate that I know you, and I feel like…
Stephanie Wedgeworth: you are really, really exceptionally good at building a brand and allowing… putting yourself in a position for people to experience you. So unpack that a little bit for everybody to kind of understand, like, what are some of the strategies that you use to actually do that?
Jessica Smith: Yeah, and listen, I do not want to present it like it is easy, because it is far from easy, because it is…
Jessica Smith: it is one thing, and I was in a great environment, you know, being in a very large company in the automotive industry is definitely a place that makes it a little easier. Being at their headquarters makes it easier, too, because you're, you know, boots on the ground in the corporate office where all the big executives are, so I will… I want to make sure that that does matter, which I used to encourage people, hey, if there's an opportunity
Jessica Smith: and you can get down to the corporate office, and if your situation is such, you should do that, because it is very impactful to grow in your career. In 8 years, going from an entry-level sales role to a director of sales is
Jessica Smith: not an easy task, and I really don't think I would have been able to do it had I not been boots on the ground. The first thing I remember a mentor told me after the pandemic, he said, when those doors open up, you better be the first person in there. Maybe there's some people that can grow and develop their career and their brand remotely, but if you have the opportunity, and you are right there in Atlanta.
Jessica Smith: Get your butt in the door.
Jessica Smith: And that was the best advice that, that I could have gotten, because I'm telling you, when I made sure that was the case, and I was in the cafe, there was only…
Jessica Smith: 5 other people in there, and all 5 of them were executives, and they're looking around like, well, who are you? And I'm like, well, hi, I'm Jessica Smith. Let's have coffee. So, that's the first thing, is that I really, I wasn't shy about it at all, because I know exactly who I am, and I understand my capabilities, and I know how hard I've worked to get here, and no one's gonna tell your story like you.
Jessica Smith: You just have to be brave enough to get in front of the right people, and that's what I did. I just…
Jessica Smith: told my story over and over and over and over again, so that's the first thing. So by the time I knocked on the door and they peeked out, they kind of already knew who I was. Maybe they hadn't experienced me yet. And I would find… I was very strategic in finding areas, for example, I found a…
Jessica Smith: There was a…
Jessica Smith: kind of like a startup opportunity, and I knew that they hadn't hired a sales leader yet. And I said, hey, I want to take on a stretch assignment, I know you don't have any sales leaders, and I know you gotta sell stuff, so I'd love to have the opportunity to come along and help you out, and this was outside of my org, and of course, I asked…
Jessica Smith: the permission of my leader. And, everything's about exposure, right? And so I went to my leader and said, hey, I think we can get some great exposure for your org, because I think I can impact
Jessica Smith: this other org, and I want to raise my hand and take on a stretch assignment. And he was like, okay, yeah, go for it, because they want to know what's in it for them. And the best… when I do good, it's going to make him look good. So, just showing up, and every opportunity that I knew that I can impact
Jessica Smith: Somewhere where they needed someone like me.
Jessica Smith: I would just go and volunteer my time, and it was extra work, and sometimes it was work on the weekends, and sometimes it was work after hours, but I showed up, and I made sure that
Jessica Smith: I put in the work, and I was impactful. And then I couldn't stop there. Now I had to go and tell the story, what I did, so that other people knew what I was doing, because oftentimes, stories will be told about the success, but your name won't be in them. And I learned that the hard way, too, because I would hear stories about, did you hear about that $10 million deal, such and such and that? And I'm like, yeah.
Jessica Smith: Yeah, and…
Jessica Smith: my name wasn't in the story, and the lead and the whole process started with me. And so, you gotta put yourself out there, don't be afraid to ask, you gotta show up, and that's the other thing, too. Don't ask.
Jessica Smith: and then show up and drop the ball. That's… that's a no-no. You gotta make sure that if you're given the opportunity, that you crush it. And when you do, then you gotta go and tell that story, and then…
Jessica Smith: it got to a point where people would come to me and say, hey, I heard you did this, do you… could you help with this project? Sure! And that's kind of how I ended up with 5 different roles in the 8 years that I was with the organization.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: That's so inspirational. Like, I don't know about anybody else, but is anybody else not very good at
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Blowing their own horn… tootin' their own horn.
Jessica Smith: And guess what? It's harder for women, Stephanie. It's harder for women, and again, I thank the mentorship. That's the other thing, too. I'm so big on mentorship. I find good mentors, I ask for them to really pour into me, and, I had a mentor tell me.
Jessica Smith: it ain't bragging if it's true. So, I took that with me, and everywhere I go, some people… hey, I've been in interviews where, I got feedback
Jessica Smith: from someone that they didn't know that knew me, and the feedback was, I don't know, I found her to be arrogant, and it's like, okay, I'm not gonna be for everyone, I know that. I'm definitely not a one-size-fits-all, but I am going to tell my own story. And if I did something amazing.
Jessica Smith: I'm gonna…
Russell Hill: Right on, yeah, shatter from the rooftops.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: That's so important. Jess had some good questions she put in the chat. She said, how do you manage to stay so positive through everything, and what daily habits or mindset practices help keep you that… to help you keep that outlook so strong?
Jessica Smith: Yeah, you kind of answered part of it, which is, I always tell people, so I'm very, structured, and this is gonna go back into my early years. You know, when you're… when you're a teen mom, and you're 17, and you're out in the world, and you're lost, and I had these mentors, and that's what they taught me. The first book they had me read was The Magic of Thinking Big.
Jessica Smith: And it really helped me Start understanding the right mindset and the right habits to get in.
Jessica Smith: No one would ever know that I am, like, ADHD, like, so… and the reason you wouldn't know it is because I have formed habits around it where, you just… you just would know it, because everything is very structured. So going back to your question, Jess, is, another thing is that I'm a strong woman of faith, and that is…
Jessica Smith: That's huge. That's huge for me, because without that.
Jessica Smith: I… I don't know where I would be. So, I am big into prayer, into meditation, into just quiet time, into reading, exercise.
Jessica Smith: And all of these things are just small habits every single day. I have a heart to serve, and I believe that if you spend more time serving other people, that…
Jessica Smith: you don't have to worry about where yours is gonna come from. And that's been a big thing, too, is that I've been working with a lot of people that are in the same situation I'm in, and I'm so busy trying to help them.
Russell Hill: that sometimes I forget that I'm in that situation. I'm like, wait a minute, I'm…
Jessica Smith: I'm laid off myself. So, yeah, that's what I would say, is just have a heart to serve, and really get into habits, and find whatever that thing is for you, whatever it is. If it's prayer, if it's meditation, if it's Zumba, whatever it is, but it's gotta be something. And trust me, I still have days. I mean, I just had one because I went through this
Jessica Smith: long since June process for a job that I really wanted, and, I finally got the word that I didn't get it, and I was just, like, so defeated.
Jessica Smith: And, I had another mentor that said, listen.
Jessica Smith: That's okay. Be upset, cry, whatever it is you're gonna do, but you better do it, and you have until the next day to be done with that thing. Nothing more. It's not about the… it's about sitting in it too long, and so…
Jessica Smith: I have these things, these habits programmed in my mind, and what I do is I just stick to them, and I'm really disciplined that way.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: I love that. That's so powerful. I… I don't know where it was that I saw that somewhere. I feel like it was in some movie where they talked about how, like, don't sit in it too long. And it's almost like… you know, because when you're… when you're in it.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: it's so easy to sit in it, because then you keep repeating your story to people, right? You keep sharing with other people, oh, oh, how was your interview? Oh, da-da-da, now you're sharing it with that person, now you're sharing… and that brings up those emotions and that.
Jessica Smith: Yes.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: All of it, you're just reliving it. So I loved your strategy of, like.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Getting outside of that, and just doing something else, something you enjoy, and making sure, like, even though you're not working, or you're looking for a job, or whatever the circumstances, just bringing in other things that help you, yourself, you know, help you with your self-worth.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: You know, with your identity. If you worked out when you had a job, keep working out. You know, if you like to cook when you had a job, keep cooking. I love that. I love that mentality.
Jessica Smith: And Stephanie, I like what you said about, when someone asks you about it, because that's another thing, too, that can really mess us up. And people are asking because they care, and I love that, right? And if you keep reliving the pain, it's not helpful. So I encourage people that when people ask you about something, don't relive the pain in a negative way, spin it in a positive way, so that
Jessica Smith: when you're telling the story. And this last one, it was so tough. The president, when she was talking to me, I thought she was gonna cry, and I said to her.
Jessica Smith: stopped for a moment. I said, breathe. I'm the one that didn't get the job.
Russell Hill: Yeah.
Jessica Smith: And she just cracked up laughing, and I said, she goes, this was just such a hard decision, and I went with an internal, which, by the way, is a thing right now, too. Went with an internal that was really due for a promotion, and I feel really bad, and I said, listen, here's the thing, and I don't… I'm not here to preach, I said, but I do want you to know that the decision wasn't yours, the decision was the God's. You didn't make the decision. I said, because I asked God to open doors and close doors, and He
Jessica Smith: close this one. You didn't close it. And she was like, oh my god, thank you so much for saying that. So, when you're telling people the story, I tell people that story, instead of saying, I didn't get the job, these people, blah blah blah, and I tell that story. And so, it's always every, what's the saying? Like, rejection is protection. Figure out what the lesson is, what was the
Jessica Smith: In sales, we say every no, you're closer to the yes, and tell that story when someone asks you about it, and I think that's helpful, too.
Russell Hill: Wow.
Sandy Zannino: I have a question.
Sandy Zannino: Actually.
Jessica Smith: No, not you, Sandy, not you, Sandy.
Sandy Zannino: Hey, look, that's what Stacey Abrams said.
Jessica Smith: I know, that's why, that was an inside, that was an inside joke thing.
Sandy Zannino: So, and just like I did then, I'm gonna ask my question.
Sandy Zannino: So, is it important? Because I totally, wholeheartedly agree with the idea of when we tell a story, we feel all the feelings again, so I have to find different ways to tell it.
Jessica Smith: Yeah.
Sandy Zannino: But… Also, is it… is it important for you to have a couple of safe people to…
Sandy Zannino: talk about those feelings with, right? Like, to process the… the stuff.
Jessica Smith: Yeah. And, my husband's usually the first one, because he's right here, right? And, in those moments is usually when, if I'm just so angry because, like, this is the one that I just really, really wanted, or I knew I had.
Jessica Smith: And then this is… he… he really, again, he speaks life back into me, and then by the time I have that with the second or the third, listen, the… the…
Jessica Smith: I went for a role at…
Jessica Smith: In an organization. Seven times! Seven times in a row! And I'm telling you, you would think by the seventh time, it wouldn't sting as much. It actually was worse, because every time, I thought my chances were higher and higher and higher. And…
Jessica Smith: it just… it wasn't the case. So, again, I'm not gonna say it ever gets easy, but I will say that how you handle it is… it really determines how fast you can get up and keep moving.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Yeah, I love that… that question, Sandy, because it really is…
Stephanie Wedgeworth: it really is about who you're sharing it with, right? Like, you… if you're… if you're sharing it with somebody who
Stephanie Wedgeworth: feeds into the negative, right? Or maybe even if you're being negative, but they're co-signing it, right? So you're still going back through that negative emotion, then you want to go to somebody who can uplift you, right? Somebody who can say, you know, like you said, Jessica, like your husband, like, somebody who can say, okay, let's look at the bright side, you know? Or somebody who can say, well, that wasn't your job, that wasn't for you. Like, that interview process, you needed to go through it.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Because you needed to learn something, you needed to experience that, you needed to network, now you know these people, they know you, but that wasn't your role.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Yeah, yeah.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: So, what would you say, with, with all of…
Stephanie Wedgeworth: This that's been going on with you, trying to, you know, stay positive, interview for all these jobs, get so far along.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: It's almost like… it's almost easier when you don't get all that way, right? All that far along, right? But when you get all that way, and then you have to reset and come back. What would you say, like, the biggest
Stephanie Wedgeworth: takeaway is, because I know you're making a lot of networking, you know, genuine relationship connections, and you're meeting a lot of people, and yes, you just haven't found that role yet, but you know that it's coming. So, what do you do daily to just
Stephanie Wedgeworth: make sure, like, is it… do you continue to interview? Do you do things in a different way? Do you step back for a minute? Like, what… what would… what do you do every single day to keep the momentum going?
Jessica Smith: Yeah, I do a lot of journaling, too, and so…
Jessica Smith: That is one of those areas that helped me, and one of the things that I do is I journal through the, and this is my
Jessica Smith: You know, psychology brain.
Jessica Smith: You know, I journal through the interview process, and part of the reason why I'm doing this, too, is because I think I'm learning something to be able to help coach other people through it. And it's funny, the… there were some…
Jessica Smith: things that happened in this last interview process that I told my husband at some point. I'm like, yeah, I'm seeing some… some signs of
Jessica Smith: I know I keep moving on, but I see some signs that they're seeing me as a risk. And, I won't go down the rabbit hole of, but reality is, when you're a woman, and when you're a woman of color, and you're the only one in an interview process, you are risky. And it is not…
Jessica Smith: something that's… that person is bad, or what… it's the way the human brain works. If someone is from one community and they look at you, you are risky. And, so I wrote down some words that were used in… in some of the feedback in some of the interviews, and I was telling to my husband, he's like, oh my gosh, you're totally overthinking these.
Jessica Smith: And… at the end of… whenever I'm told I didn't get the job.
Jessica Smith: those keywords that I've journaled always come up to show their head that they meant something when I thought they meant something.
Jessica Smith: And so, I go back and I say, okay, what… what have I… what have I learned through this? Could I have done something differently? Can I have… and in some cases, it… there's nothing, because more times than not.
Jessica Smith: I… here's the feedback I get. I always ask for feedback, and the feedback I often get is.
Jessica Smith: you interviewed
Jessica Smith: so well. Like, you are… because I'm thinking, well, yeah, I'm a professional at this point. I've done 470 million of them over the last 5 years, but,
Jessica Smith: It's that, well, it was just this, or it was just that. So, I say all that to say is that I do a lot of journaling because I want to be able to learn something.
Jessica Smith: And…
Jessica Smith: I want to be able to show up differently, and sometimes, will it make a difference? I don't know, I just know that I want to know that it wasn't all for nothing. So I look back on my journaling, I also allow myself to feel however I feel, and I journal about that as well.
Jessica Smith: Going back to the financial piece of it, I also know that, yes, sometimes I take a step back and take a break. So…
Jessica Smith: for example, I have two strong possibilities, and I just got one no in the last 7 days, and I'm taking a break, which is why I was available to do this. And I love that, because when I leave myself open with nothing on my calendar.
Jessica Smith: I leave it open, saying to the universe, hey, bring me something to do that I can serve someone else, and get outside of myself in this that I'm doing.
Russell Hill: And the universe brings it.
Jessica Smith: Yep.
Jessica Smith: So, that's…
Jessica Smith: kind of some of the things that I do, and then again, you know, I went to a… to the gym this morning, you know, I try to make sure that I'm praying, meditate, all of those things, but it has to be something that I do every day, and again, I want to be able to allow myself to step away and take a break.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: I love that you get feedback. How do you… how do you do that?
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Do you ask the… do you go back to the last person who interviewed you? Do you go back to the recruiter? Do you do a combination of both?
Jessica Smith: Yeah, it depends on the, the,
Jessica Smith: it depends on the situation, how close I am to the job, how, you know, I know the people, but I always… there is never a time, just like I would never interview and not send a thank you note, or never interview and not send a business plan, I would never not ask
Jessica Smith: for feedback. And again, even though most of the time it's nothing.
Jessica Smith: And it's funny, because in this last one, you know, her comment was, there was nothing negative, and I said, well, hold on a minute. I said, I didn't say negative, and I said, it doesn't have to be negative. My question is, was there any feedback, or could you share the feedback? Because I think it was, like, 6 interviews with, like.
Jessica Smith: all these different people, I said, is there…
Jessica Smith: any feedback you could share with me, and I said, and it's important to me because I want to be able to always keep learning and keep bettering, you know, myself, and I want to share this information with other people that I mentor and coach.
Jessica Smith: And… but it's funny that she said there was nothing negative, and I was like, well, I didn't say that it had to be negative. I don't necessarily take feedback as not always negative. But there was nothing there, but I always ask.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: That's a really good… that's really important, right? Because people do, a lot of times, associate feedback with something negative, right? And you're not…
Stephanie Wedgeworth: really asking, was there only something bad that could have happened? It could have been… it could be something, you know, out of your control, even, like, what the internal… when they hired internally, like, that's not even in your control. Or it could just be that, oh, maybe you're overqualified, you know, or, you know, maybe we wanted, whatever. It could be anything, it doesn't necessarily have to be negative, so that's a really good point, though.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: But that's…
Jessica Smith: I got feedback once that, they wanted to see my business plan before the panel, and I had never heard that before, and I think that's just a preference. So, now what I do is I put together a business plan before the panel, and then based on what I learned during the panel, I update it, and I send a revised copy.
Jessica Smith: So, that's something that I learned, and it really is a preference of whoever the panel is.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: So this is something they asked for prior to, or do you just automatically have this business plan ready to go?
Jessica Smith: Yeah, I have a foundation of a business plan, and then, and here's the thing. At the end of the day, when you see who got the job, you're like, you know what, that was BS, but it doesn't matter, BS or not. My goal is to check all the boxes and make it very difficult for them to tell me no. Like, you can come up, and it's obvious when they're just, like, reaching for excuses, right? Because I thought that one was
Jessica Smith: interesting, but I still do things differently based on that feedback, because you never know if it will, you know, be something that helps me out in the future.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: I love that you also do your podcast. I'm sure you probably also talk about a lot of this kind of stuff on your podcast. What type of stuff do you talk about on your podcast?
Jessica Smith: So, my podcast, called Lead Like a Girl.
Jessica Smith: started off, and I… I'm not even a podcast listener. I met a guy who, just in conversation, he was one of the youth leaders at our church, and he said, did anybody ever tell you you would be really good at a podcast? And I started laughing, I'm like, oh my god. First of all, I…
Jessica Smith: I'm so busy. I don't have time for that. If I was gonna do something, I'd write my book. And he goes, well, that's what you should do on the podcast. And I'm like, what do you mean? Write a book on the podcast? He goes, no, just get on the podcast and tell your story. So that conversation within 7 days went to him producing
Jessica Smith: a podcast where I'm just telling my life story, and I do no edits, no re…
Jessica Smith: records, and I would just… some of the stories I hadn't told since they actually happened, and it was just very therapeutic. My, my,
Jessica Smith: my mentors and my therapist would… she's like, you should have done this a long time ago! And so it was great, and I did that in the first season, and I'm like, I don't know where this thing is going, and then, two other women that kind of grew up in the business that I grew up in as sales leaders.
Jessica Smith: They're like, we'd love to get on and just…
Jessica Smith: talk and have conversations about just all the stuff. So, you know, what we say is we're empowering everyday women through our storytelling, and we literally talk about, everything, and sometimes we have guests. And one of the things that I asked the, producer, I said, give me
Jessica Smith: One, what's the secret sauce to a podcast? And he said, consistence. Consistency. He said, most people are great podcasters, but they are not consistent. They can't keep it up.
Russell Hill: That's right.
Jessica Smith: said, I'll tell you what, I will never miss an episode.
Jessica Smith: Every week, I'll never… and he laughed at me, and he said, good luck with that.
Jessica Smith: And, it's been 2 years. And you'll… if you listen to some of them, you'll see with some of them, I'm sick. One time I had… two times I had COVID, I had no voice.
Jessica Smith: The girls thought that I was joking when I told them, I'm committed to never missing an episode, and you will not mess up my winning streak. And so, it was the first day, it was like a holiday or something, and I called them up, I'm like, hey, where the heck are you guys? And they're like, it's Labor Day? And I was like, did we talk?
Jessica Smith: about we were gonna record another day outside of Monday.
Jessica Smith: I'm like, put your beers down and get on. You are not messing up my winning streak. And they were, like, calling each other, like, she's crazy. And we got on and re-recorded, and now they know that if they can't make a Monday, then you call me and we'll get it on the schedule for Saturday. We do not miss an episode, so I am running strong on over 2 years now with not one missed,
Jessica Smith: Episode yet.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Nice! And when it…
Russell Hill: on.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: When is your podcast?
Jessica Smith: So, we record, every Monday night, but we release the episodes every, Wednesday. So, and it's on wherever you listen to, podcasts. The other thing is that we moved to YouTube, so not only do they have to show up, but they have to be on camera, too, so…
Jessica Smith: They're all… they're all video podcasts. So one day I'll do something with all the content, but at least I know that it's there and it's already made.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Very nice. You got a new listener, Sean said, awesome!
Jessica Smith: And believe… I didn't realize this, we actually do have a lot of men listeners. I've gotten some great feedback about how we've, really helped, one of our listeners with handling his wife. She's the sales…
Jessica Smith: And, so I've learned a lot that I did… we have a lot of male listeners, and that's great, because, our mission, what we need to do with women in the workforce, we can't do it without men at the end of the day. So, thank you.
Russell Hill: Right on!
Stephanie Wedgeworth: I love that. Hannah, who came up with the name? I love it, Lead Like a Girl.
Jessica Smith: You said, who came up with the name?
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Yeah.
Jessica Smith: So, funny story there. So, at the company I was with, because, you know, again, I raised my hand for everything, they came to me and said, hey, we usually have Women's History Month as a theme, and all of the organizations are kind of siloed with their theme. We want to do a theme for the entire company, and we want you to be a part of it. And I'm like, okay, sure. So we get in this room with a bunch of people, and we're talking, and
Jessica Smith: I said, you know, during the, pandemic, I thought about, I was just so upset
Jessica Smith: with the number of women leaders that were leaving the workforce, because they just couldn't do it all. And it made me so angry. I was calling people up, and I'm like, no, you can't do it! And what I realized after talking to so many women is that the reason they couldn't do it, and you're talking to someone who.
Jessica Smith: was homeschooling 3 children at the time, one in elementary, one in middle, and one in high school.
Jessica Smith: And had a team of my own to still do. So, I understood how hard it was, but I think women were leaving because they kept
Jessica Smith: comparing themselves to their male counterparts in terms of leadership. And they did not feel okay with saying, I can't make this meeting today, I have to cancel, because, you know, I gotta go to the school, or my kids work, whatever it is. And so that's when I got the vision, and then I grew up with a brother.
Jessica Smith: That tormented me, and I remember we… we used to play football, basketball, all the things, and he used to get really mad and say, you throw like a girl. And I wouldn't say it, but I would think, like, you idiot, I am a girl! What do you mean I throw like a girl? And so, all of these things went through my head, and during the pandemic, I came up with that.
Jessica Smith: brand lead like a girl. You can still lead, you can still do it, and you don't have to do it. Lead like a girl. And so, I shared this in that meeting, and they just loved it. And next thing I know, we had a creative team, we had all these teams helping me build this brand.
Jessica Smith: And then the next year, I get all these calls and emails that people wanted this Lead Like a Girl swag. Where's my hat? Where's my this and that?
Jessica Smith: And I'm like, so I went back, and they're like, yeah, that was last year's, we usually don't redo it.
Jessica Smith: So my son, I have a brilliant son, and he's like, Mom, you created a whole brand. They helped you do, like, take your brand, trademark it, and do something with it. And I was like, well, what am I… he's like, just do it! Who knows what… where… so I…
Russell Hill: That's right.
Jessica Smith: I did, I took, I took it and kind of just set it on the shelf, and then when this whole podcast came, and they were like, well, what do you want to call it? And I was like, I know it, I got a name, I got a brand!
Russell Hill: Wow.
Jessica Smith: So, so that's… that's, that's where Lead Like a Girl came from.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Love it, love it, and I didn't know there was swag, too, that's great! Yep.
Jessica Smith: Likeagirllab.com is our website. So, yeah, we got the trucker hats and the sweatshirts, the wine glasses, all of it.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Wow, that's amazing. I want to open it up. Does anybody want to ask any questions of this amazing woman? Anybody else in the job market, or having trouble in the job market?
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Or know anybody in the job market, having trouble in the job market.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: out there.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: It's really rough.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Oh, thank you, Sandy. Sandy is putting all your links in the chat.
Jessica Smith: Thank you, thank you.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: That's awesome. Thank you, Sandy.
Russell Hill: Well, I'll make a comment, a couple of comments. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing just a little bit. And I made some notes of some of the things you shared that are applicable to my life, and for people that want to achieve whatever success is, not just monetarily, okay?
Russell Hill: If the dream is big enough, the facts don't count. So I wrote down acceptance, mentors, journaling, reading, attitude, dreams, getting outside of your comfort zone, instruction, tremendous resilience, great habits, and faith.
Russell Hill: That's what makes up a leader, and I really believe it's better to give than to receive, and I ascribe to the Zig Ziglar philosophy, if you help enough other people get what they want, you'll get what you want. And I seem to think, I don't know if it's true or not, but I seem to think that the things that I have in my life, or what I think people have, is in direct proportion to what they give.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Yes, that's so true, and so… you gave me chills! I love that!
Russell Hill: And you're, you're, it's a tremendous story. You can get muddled down in all the crap, and listen to people.
Russell Hill: But you're one of those people, because of your education, woman of color, a woman, all those things that happen, where people say, oh, no, no, you can't do that, I tried that, that won't work, and they got interrupted by somebody who just did. And that is Jessica Smith. And the universe is going to open up and provide you exactly what you need, or something way outside, a quantum leap in whatever it is that's coming. But I'm telling you.
Russell Hill: It's coming.
Jessica Smith: Thank you, I received that. Thank you, I appreciate those words.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Yeah, I mean, I… I second that. I think what is coming is probably bigger than you even imagine, and I think it's probably gonna take you in a direction that you're not even looking. Yeah. And you're gonna… you're gonna be open to receive it, because you did not settle.
Russell Hill: That's right.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Just to grab it, just to get income, just to support yourself. You're waiting for that magical moment, and it's coming.
Russell Hill: I think that… I think that sometimes
Russell Hill: And some people in here have heard me say this, but people can…
Russell Hill: tend to get bogged down, and the greatest predictor of future behavior is previous behavior. And we all know the definition of insanity, right? And so people wonder why I'm just not… this isn't happening, and getting hit. Well, there's really only a few things that are determining factors in where you want to go, because
Russell Hill: You are really a subtotal of everything you've ever seen, heard, read, or done. And if you want a different tomorrow, and you think it's gonna happen 30 days from now just because you think it is, it's not. You actually have to input new information to get a new output. If not, unfortunately, you're gonna be left to all you know and experienced and thought and done, and it's going to be the same thing.
Russell Hill: And people wonder, I'm the same place I was a year ago. Well, why don't you get outside of your comfort zone and be vulnerable enough
Russell Hill: To get hurt, if that's what it is that's gonna happen, right?
Jessica Smith: Absolutely.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Oh, true. I mean, that… that's… what you just said, Russell, is applicable even if you're employed, right?
Russell Hill: It don't… it don't… it's… yes, it's life. Yeah.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Yeah, yeah, sometimes you're just in a place that you have no business staying in, but it… fear is keeping you there, right? So, great, great.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: session. Jessica, great story.
Russell Hill: Amazing. I can't… I don't know how you'd have the… this was fun, because I learned more about you. I didn't know you were doing all this stuff. How did you even have time to work?
Russell Hill: It's amazing. Busy people tend to have… find the time. It's the people that aren't busy that just… they don't have any time, they're not busy, and they don't have any time, right?
Sandy Zannino: I'm gonna… there's 4 minutes left in the session, so I'm gonna take 30 of those seconds, if that's okay.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Of course!
Sandy Zannino: From the moment I met Jessica, she inspired me.
Sandy Zannino: Right? Like, like, right away. And we met, years ago.
Sandy Zannino: You know, and where we both have short blonde hair.
Sandy Zannino: And she has continued to inspire me, right? Like, there was some stuff she left out of her story, and things that I didn't know, like, left… things that I do know, like, or maybe I missed it. Did you mention that you also got your master's degree, too, while you were at… you know, you got your bachelor's, your master's, then you did the, the, what's it called, the,
Sandy Zannino: Toastmaster, I mean, like, one thing after another, Jessica, you never stop.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Yeah.
Sandy Zannino: Right? And it is something that really inspires me, because sometimes there are days where I just want to pull the covers over my head.
Jessica Smith: Yep.
Sandy Zannino: Right? Like, I'm done.
Sandy Zannino: And, so you keep me going.
Sandy Zannino: You know, so…
Jessica Smith: Thank you She's an Energizer bunny. I've been called that.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: It really is true, it's very true. Your children are very lucky to have such an inspirational, aspirational mama.
Sandy Zannino: And that networking thing that you mentioned, I think, is one of the most important things, right? Like, because, nobody gave me the… the…
Sandy Zannino: roadmap.
Jessica Smith: Yeah.
Sandy Zannino: And if I would ever, which I probably will never, like, go… like, some of the things that you talk about in your interview process, I'm like, oh my god, I could… I would fail so miserably if… if some big company wanted to interview me for something, because… so I'd be calling you, right? Because I know… I know somebody, so…
Sandy Zannino: That kind of stuff is really important.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Yeah, it really is, it's true. Especially speaking, you know, as a woman of color, that there… a lot of us don't have C-suite
Stephanie Wedgeworth: parents.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: siblings, aunts, uncles, like, we don't have the roadmap, we don't have the blueprint, so we don't know what you're supposed to do and say. We don't know about the genuine connections that you're supposed to make, and the networking, and the relationships, and building a business plan for an interview, and getting… asking for feedback all the time, and so the fact that you take
Stephanie Wedgeworth: the opportunity to build these platforms and share your voice and your experience and your knowledge is huge. And I thank you so much for coming today and spending time with us, and
Stephanie Wedgeworth: educating us on how to persevere through all of this crazy madness that's going on right now in this job market. I know a lot of people, I mean, Jessica, we were just talking about this, a lot of people, especially a lot of people of color, are in the situation where they're looking for their next role, and so this is right on time, and this is what everybody needed to hear, so thank you so much, and thank you everybody for coming.
Stephanie Wedgeworth: Thank you, Jessica, again, for sharing with us. It was great to see you all, and I hope to see you all next week!
Jessica Smith: Thank you, Susan.
Leslie Swan: So much.
Dave Foy: Thanks so much.
Leslie Swan: Thank you so much.
Russell Hill: See you. Bye.
Leslie Swan: Bye.