269 - Changes and Focusing on the Vision with Anna DeShawn

Show Notes

Listeners, we're back this week with Anna DeShawn.

Anna, pronouns anything respectful, is a Chicago-born social entrepreneur who builds streaming platforms which center & celebrate BIPOC & QTPOC creatives. Media has always been her passion and in 2009 she turned that passion into a reality when she founded E3 Radio, an online radio station playing Queer music & reporting on Queer news with an intersectional lens. Most recently, she co-founded The Qube, a curated app where you discover the best music & podcasts by BIPOC & QTPOC creatives. Anna is determined to ride media into its next era by utilizing digital media streams to tell the stories and play the music that deserves to be heard.Learn more about her work here.In no particular order I’m also a daughter, wife, sister, and friend who loves cooking and running.Favorite Quote: “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” –GandhiDid you know? Anna has been in love with Robin Roberts all her life. Interviewing her will be the ultimate experience.

During this episode we talked about:

• 02:52 - Being Black American and from the Southside of Chicago
• 09:42 - Ignorance and racism
• 11:48 - Media representation
• 18:22 - Her professional road
• 24:10 - Progress
• 25:13 - Creating change
• 34:01 - The business
• 37:36 - The pandemic and taking the big leap
• 38:43 - Live without regrets
• 44:17 - Releasing control of the when and the how
• 44:44 - Her exit plan
• 49:22 - Self-sabotage
• 50:31 - The Qube
• 52:58 - We deserve visibility

 

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Creators & Guests

Host

Pam Covarrubias

Cafe con Pam Creator and Host

Producer

Nancy Jaimez

Producer Cafe con Pam

What is Cafe con Pam?

Cafe con Pam is the weekly podcast featuring fearless Latine/x and People of The Global Majority that break barriers, change lives and make the world a better place while living in the US. Cafe con Pam is the platform where Latine/x are able to share their stories and inspire one another through conversations about mindful productivity, business, and liberation. Of course, while enjoying a fabulous cup of coffee.

Hello everyone, this is Pam de Café con Pam, the bilingual podcast that features Latine and people of the global majority who break barriers, change lives, and make this world a better place. Welcome to episode 269 of Café con Pam. Today we have a conversation with Anna DeShawn.
Anna, pronouns anything respectful, is a Chicago-born social entrepreneur who builds streaming platforms which center & celebrate BIPOC & QTPOC creatives. Media has always been her passion and in 2009 she turned that passion into a reality when she founded E3 Radio, an online radio station playing Queer music & reporting on Queer news with an intersectional lens. Most recently, she co-founded The Qube, a curated app where you discover the best music & podcasts by BIPOC & QTPOC creatives. Anna is determined to ride media into its next era by utilizing digital media streams to tell the stories and play the music that deserves to be heard. In no particular order she is also a daughter, wife, sister, and friend who loves cooking and running. Did you know? Anna has been in love with Robin Roberts all her life. Interviewing her will be the ultimate experience.
Listeners, this conversation with Anna was, ugh, delightful. It was beautiful. It was full of joy and fun, and we talked about deep things and we talked about fun things, and we talk about podcasts and media, and I think you're going to enjoy it because we cover a lot of your dreams and desires and how sometimes it isn't truly safe for people that look like us or people of the global majority to pursue them. However, that doesn't mean that we can't make things happen. So I really love Anna's story of determination and courage and drive to make her dreams come true, even if it was taking a turn at some points or even if it was shifting a little bit at some points. So I really think that you're going to be inspired and motivated to make things happen because as we follow our dreams and we pursue them, we do encounter some hurdles. We do encounter some pit stops. We do encounter some bumps in the road and el punto es que we keep going. And I really think this interview will support you in that. Y bueno, ya me callo because I know you wanna hear it. Sin más, here is my interview with Anna DeShawn.
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Pam: Anna, welcome to Café con Pam.
Anna: Thank you. I'm so happy to be here.
Pam: Yes. Where are you tuning in from?
Anna: South side of Chicago.
Pam: Fun. The question that we always start with is, what's your heritage?
Anna: My mother is from Mississippi. My father is from the south side of Chicago, and I am a product of the south side of Chicago, and I'm Black American.
Pam: Do you identify as African American?
Anna: That's fine too. I feel like African Americans should be used for those who are African and live in America. I feel like my experience in America has been that of a black person here in America.
Pam: For sure. Is different. Right?
Anna: It's different. And I think that, you know, respectability politics led us to calling ourselves African American after a lot of awful derogatory words. Right. And I think that that was fine for a time and I think it fits for some people, but for me, Black American seems more accurate.
Pam: For sure. Thank you for that explanation. Because it's, I hear people referring to black folks as African American and I'm like, are you sure that's what they want? Because it's almost like Latine, Latinx, Hispanic, Latino, Latina, you know? It's that never ending debate now for us of like, what's the word. I don't know if it's a direct comparison. I don't think it is, but it's so it's similar, like similarly of the intricacies and layers of the meaning of the term.
Anna: Absolutely. And it's layered because I don't know where I'm from. Right. So I don't know the origins of my lineage. I can't sit here and directly say that I know exactly where I'm from. So I start with my mother and my father. Right. That's where I start. And--

Pam: Yeah. And the, we do what we have, for sure. Thank you for that. So you are from south side of Chicago and I know Michelle Obama, you know, Often talks about the south side of Chicago.
Anna: Yeah.
Pam: So is that where you've been your whole life?
Anna: It is. I went away for school and then I came back home.
Pam: Really?
Anna: Yeah. Born and raised right here in south side of Chicago.
Pam: So let's talk about your experience and growing up, so you were born in the south side of Chicago, and we have listeners all over the world. So for those who are not familiar with the south side of Chicago, tell me more about it. Why is it such specific way of referring to Chicago?
Anna: Yeah, a hundred percent. It's specific because in Chicago we designate what part of the city you are from and that tells us a lot about who you are and probably your experiences. So, if you ever come to Chicago, there'll be people who are proudly from the west side and proudly from the north side. And I am proudly from the south side of Chicago. That often also means that as a Black American, that my ancestors probably came up here to Chicago for opportunity, leaving the south as part of some type of great migration to the north. And that is absolutely the case for me. So my mother moved to Chicago when she was about 20 or 21 from Mississippi and from the deep South for opportunities, right? And so if you come to Chicago and you talk to any Black American person, about 90% of the time their family is in from the south in some shape, form, or fashion. I've had people tell me that I sound like I'm from the south. I sound country sometimes. They call it a Midwestern accent. I don't know what that means, but [laughs] it typically means I got some type of lineage from the south. Uh, also means that I prefer Harold's over Uncle Remus, which are two popular fried chicken places here in Chicago, and one was founded and situated on the west side, and one is situated on the south side and they've got lots of legacies and so I do prefer Harold's. So I, I say south side of Chicago to put all of that into some context.
Pam: For sure. Thank you for that. I mean, it's so cool to see how, for me as an immigrant to come into the US and learn. I went to college in Missouri, and so my first full immersed lived experience in the US, I mean, the first one was in LA but by myself was in Missouri. And Missouri is very close to Illinois. And, and really seeing like what you mentioned about one chicken place was in one part of the city, and the other one was in the other part, and how they built like their own following and that was like pre-social media, right? And soseeing how it's built, all of this like following is super cool.
Anna: Oh yeah. I mean that's what life is about, right? Um, these experiences, and I think the Midwest in particular is, and I'll speak for Chicago, Chicago, I feel like is a great balance between what you find on the East coast and what you find on the West coast. Right? So I think you find the busyness of what you find in New York and I think you can find the calmness and sort of the chillness that you find in LA or in the Bay. And we bring them both together in Chicago. And I don't feel like we ought to be deemed as like fly over states, like Chicago is a destination. Okay. So don't do us in the Midwest. Yeah.
Pam: Yes. No, I love Chicago now. My lived experience in the Midwest back in the early two thousands was not the best because I didn't find people like me. And so I often say that I learned English from black women because that's who kind of like took me under their wing and they were like, oh, I this littlebrown girl. Let's like be friends with her. Because it was, I had two choices. Be friends with white people or be friends with black people. I identify more culturally with like the warmth and the food and you know, the embrace and the nurturing of Black women. And so that was my experience. Now when I go back to the Midwest and I think Chicago's different because it's such a, a much bigger city, there's a lot more diversity. And so I hear you when you say the chill of the West coast and the fastness of the East coast in Chicago, I, I hear that. I would say it's a little bit more chill.
Anna: Yeah, definitely. We are definitely probably a little more chill, dependent on the area for sure.
Pam: Yes. I remember in college we went to New York City on a college trip, and of course I'm going with all these kids from the Midwest and I grew up in Mexico City. I don't know if you've been to Mexico City, but Mexico City to me is like if LA and New York had a child, it's Mexico City. And so I'm used to, you know, like walking fast and like getting to where you need to get to. And I'm in this group with like all these Midwest kids and they're like, ugh, looking at the buildings. And you know, like they would often get yelled at, like every day, like five times a day. People would be like, keep walking. Like what are you doing? You know? And so, that was funny to see the Midwest and the East Coast happen.
Anna: A hundred percent. A hundred percent. So I did my undergrad in Iowa and then I did my master's work in upstate New York, in Ithaca. And so I get it a hundred percent what your experience was in Missouri and what it meant to go to New York with some Midwestern folks. Their life experience is their life experience. It doesn't involve a lot of folks of color.
Pam: For sure.
Anna: Right? So when attending a PWI, predominantly white institution, I've met a lot of people whose impressions of black and brown people were really dictated by what they saw in the media, right? Not by lived experience. And so I began to understand how racism and ignorance can continue to perpetuate itself, generation to generation. Because if you don't choose to leave your radius, your four mile radius around your home, your experiences will be limited to what you get from media. And that's honestly what has driven me to want to do what the work that I do. Because media, if done well, I believe has the opportunity to impact folks. And if we tell the stories of people and humanize people, it won't be as sensationalized as what we get off the media and from media, and hopefully begin to share stories that can impact folks and help to change or challenge their perceptions of who we are.
Pam: So good. Like that was the interview, listeners. It's so true because to your point, I often see my mom, for example, watching the news and I'm like, have you watched the other channel that gives the other perspective? Because it's like very one sided oftentimes. And one thing that I recently found is that media channels, or like media companies that are known for sharing the news, one of them is owned by, uh, an entertainment company. A large entertainment company. And so the news that we often see, they bring in a lot of entertainment, like celebrities and stuff. And that also like removes a lot of the actual news people wanna hear. And then the other one is owned by the St. Latter Day's Church.
Anna: Church of the Latter Day Saints.
Pam: Yes. Thank you. Thank you. And so then they have a lot of words that are not to be said, which also influences how the news are shared, you know, which is fascinating. So tell me, when did you notice the fact that the media representation of bodies of the global majority was not being like clear?
Anna: Oh, from the very beginning. So, a little history about me. I grew up in my home with my mom, my dad and my sister. And my sister's 17 years older than me. So it's like I had another mom right. Yeah. And my dad, I was a daddy's girl and he is a coach, an educator, a former semi-pro football athlete. So he is athletic. And so I grew up a gym rat. Right. And so I also grew up in that same vein. And every night we watched ESPN together and the only black woman I ever saw in ESPN hosting Sports Center was Robin Roberts. She's my shero.
Pam: The one you've always been in love.
Anna: Always. Okay. Since the beginning. Okay. And she was the only black woman I saw.
Pam: I didn't know she started in sport.
Anna: Oh yeah. Maybe even all American athlete. She's played basketball in college. That's where she got her start, was on ESPN, ABC Sports, the Olympics. Anywhere there was an athletic event, she was commentating and I wanted to be like her. I mean, I always just wanted to be like her. I went to school for radio television production, and it was in undergrad where I realized that myself as a black masculine of center woman, there weren't people like me on television. So when I was younger, it was the fact that they weren't black women. And then as I became to know more about myself and realize that I was queer, I was like, I'm really not on television. There's so many layers that were happening and I ended up getting an internship at a radio station to turn on Tom Joyner in the morning during the weather and during the traffic, and I loved it. I was like, I can sit here and no one has to see me and I can talk to thousands of people. And people were calling the station saying, I love your voice. I love that you're on. Thank you so much for the work you do. I was like, this is awesome. Right. So I fell in love with radio at that time, and also because there weren't people who looked like me on television, it didn't feel like there was a route for me going that lane.
Pam: This is why representation matters, listeners.
Anna: It matters so much. It matters so much, and even today, no one can tell me of a woman who is masculine of center that's on television hosting your nightly news, your morning news, the sports center. There's no woman on television in a suit and a tie doing her thing. This doesn't exist, right? And we're in 2022.
Pam: Is it gonna be Anna?
Anna: I don't know. We'll see. [laughs] I have no idea what's in store for that.
Pam: Is the world ready?
Anna: I don't know if the world is ready. People definitely have perceptions of how they see women and how women should be in the world, and I think there's lots of movements challenging that, right? I think Lizzo challenges that all the time around what women should look like. You know, big bodies and, and people embracing big bodies. And that's, she's a global phenomenon and still the hate that she receives, right? I think the world has a long way to go when it comes to how we perceive women and men. But my, speaking of my own experience, so I realized early on that there weren't people like me on television and in media, and I also realized in undergrad that I wanted to do something about it. That leads us to my work today with the radio station, E3 radio, and then the work with The Qube and the goal of amplifying BIPOC voices inside of the podcasting space and how incredibly important that is for us to do.
***
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Pam: We'll get to The Qube, but I wanna like go deeper into, into the beginning.
Anna: Yeah, we can go deep. [laughs]
Pam: So you're on radio and you're like, this is fun cuz I can like share my voice. People are hearing, people are resonating and what happens? Tell me more about that experience.
Anna: A hundred percent. So I studied radio, television production, undergrad, and I was preparing myself to be a sportscaster. I was doing play by play, announcing color, commentating football games, basketball games, shooting footage, editing footage. So I was preparing myself for a newsroom situation and particularly in sports. I realized though that, that was not gonna be my jam. The makeup, sports jackets, how I wanted to dress, being on camera. I was gonna be challenging a lot of people's ideas of what women look like. And for anyone that doesn't know, media is an interesting space. You have to start in small markets. And small markets really aren't interested in challenging the status quo. And so you don't start in Chicago, in New York, in LA, in Texas. That's not where you start. When you're getting, when you're starting a career in broadcasting, you start in Iowa and Missouri and Kentucky and South Dakota. And North Dakota and Wyoming. You start at tiny stations.
Pam: Yes.
Anna: Right. And if you can survive, you can make it to somewhere else. But being a black queer woman, that was just not an option for me to put myself in a place where there weren't gonna be people like me, where I wasn't gonna be affirmed, where I couldn't be open about who I was. That just wasn't a reality that I could take. So after I finished undergrad, I was like, let me keep going to school. I went and got my master's right away at Ithaca College and studied organizational communication where I really fell in love with the possibilities of the internet and broadcasting.
Pam: You touch on something that's very important, and I think often maybe ignored the fact that you had to look for what was safe for you, because if you wanted to go into become the next Robin, it wasn't safe for Anna to exist as Anna. You would have had to change and become a more, I guess, fem presenting based on the expectations of media and the world. Arguably, we could say, well, did you give up on your dream? But, and on the other hand, I think a lot of times what we don't see or often talk about is the fact that bodies of the global majority, black bodies, have to look for what's safe. And if you don't feel safe, it's like, look, I'm gonna have to like take a, like a little pit stop or like reroute, because it wouldn't have been safe for you to exist like a little tiny town in Oklahoma where nobody looks like you, where there's like, it's a town of you know, 6,000 people. So thank you for sharing all of that. And I think it's important to also call that out, that it's real.
Anna: Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, I spent four years in Iowa, right? And coming from Chicago, that is major culture shock. And I survived it with community and friends. Right. And a supportive institution. People who were supportive within that institution. I survived. But I also realized during that time, like I had come out to my parents, I had come out to my family. And just becoming who I was. It just did not seem feasible for me to want to go somewhere else where I wouldn't be accepted fully. And so then I went out to Ithaca College, which is still white, but inclusive when it comes to LGBTQ folks, right? It's a very hippie place to be. There's an acceptance there that is different than what I experienced in Iowa, but after six years of that, I just didn't see myself going to another small town. I needed my community, I needed my family. I had been away for such a long time. And then also the pay is just awful. I mean, I think folks, if you don't know, you may go Google it, but people you see on television, they are not racking in money. This is not a field where people make a lot of money. And I was leaving school with a lot of debt. And so between thinking about being my full self and coming into who I am mixed with, am I gonna be able to make a livable wage? You have to make choices. You have to make choices. And I chose to come back home and ended up landing a job in broadcasting. And at the very beginnings of what we know now is webinars and webcasting and virtual events. And that's where I landed after grad school. But it was just a perfect marriage of my broadcast knowledge and my interest in what the internet was being able to do in making the world smaller.
Pam: I love that. You talk about your dad and how he's the coach and the sports and you know, you have this relationship. Did you ever have a conversation with him or your family about like, I wanna be the next Robin and I don't think it's possible for me. Was that ever a talk?
Anna: No, we've never talked about that. I believe I, um, you know, I came to that and then I found a lane that was gonna work for me. So only in conversations like this with you, Pam, does that come up. Because I didn't sit in that place. I found a solution that was going to work for me and a medium that was gonna work for me. And radio was that.
Pam: For sure. And I think it's important because while maybe you chose to go create your own path, I think also the listeners who are considering a similar path than they can be like, okay, Anna paved something for me. So it's powerful. That's why I love sharing stories, because while the representation might still not be there, there's some work that's been done, like there's a wedge that has opened it a little bit.
Anna: Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, there's more women on ESPN now than there ever have been before. Even though they aren't where they need to be, there're more, right. Progress is sort of a tortoise and the hare situation, right? It's little by little, and then at some points you feel like it's a complete pause, or you're going backwards and then all of a sudden you feel like you're speeding up and more progress has been made, and then you feel like there's a pause and you go back a little, right? That's how progress works. And so for me, I did. I did just choose to make my own path for myself. For other folks, they choose to to create change from within systems and they choose to figure out how they can change an institution from the inside. Right. And I think all of it is necessary. I often tell folks there is no civil rights movement without a Malcolm and a Martin, and a Black Panther party, right?
Pam: Yes.
Anna: They all were working towards the same goal in just very different ways, but all are so necessary.
Pam: They all chipped something.
Anna: That's right. They all made an impact. And so I feel the same way about most things. If you're looking to create a change, you need someone who's on the inside who believes in that change as well, who's working towards it from the inside. You need someone on the outside who is pressing and pushing because power does not fall voluntarily. Power changes because people force it to change, right? So you need the inside, you need the outside, and you, you need supporters around you. No one can create change in a vacuum or alone. It has to be done in community. You can't look down on anyone's role in that change. All are very necessary. Even if you don't agree with it, it's still necessary. I think about this often with activist spaces because oftentimes activists who march in the streets are revered, right, for their sacrifice as they should be. There's a lot of danger that comes put, put in your body out there, right? Or in fear of arrest and all of those things. Those activists are just as important as the mother at home raising two, three kids and trying to raise some good humans in the world. Right? Like that mother and that family, she is activating her home to create beautiful humans, right? That is her activism. A coach mentoring young men on a football field and being a father figure, that is his activism, and that is just as important as the people who are in the street fighting. It's just, it's all needed.
Pam: Oh my gosh. So good. I agree so much, so much, so much in all the things. And I think I, I've been reflecting on this because one of my friends was like, well, who is the Malcolm of the Latina community? Who, who is a Martin? And I'm like, well, I don't know because we're still like knocking each other down. So, and to your point, I think one thing that's very important to understand and learn from the Black American community is that, that you take your role and you make change happen with what you can and how you can do it. And don't worry about the neighbor because they're gonna do what they can with what they have. And so I think it's something that the Latina community, I'll invite everyone to consider, to stop looking at the neighbor. Culturally, we have that a lot of like, oh, what is the neighbor doing? Am I, am I doing it like, no, everyone has their own lived experience. Everyone has their own body of work that they are working with. And so thank you for reflecting that and reminding us that whatever work it is that we choose to do, whether it's marching or donating, or volunteering or raising good humans, it makes a difference.
Anna: It really does. I believe in time, talent, and treasure. You got one of the three. I grew up in church. Okay. It's time, talent, or treasure. One of those three things you can give and whatever you choose to give out of those three. If you're doing it with a good heart and with pure intentions, you will make a positive impact on somebody, right?
Pam: Yes. And I mean, somebody is, could be the next person that will make another positive impact.
Anna: Absolutely.
Pam: One person at a time. I wanna talk about how, like when you move back to the south side of Chicago, let's clarify,and how all of the things, the previous things shaped the way that you do work and all the things you've started and do nowadays. Before that, we'll take a coffee break.
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Pam: Okay. So, Anna, do you drink coffee?
Anna: No [laughs]
Pam: I know.
Anna: I don't. I love tea though.
Pam: Okay. What's your tea of choice?
Anna: Either a lemon ginger or a mint peppermint. Those are my top two favorites.
Pam: Very like waking up teas.
Anna: Oh, very much so. I drink tea in the morning with a little bit of honey and it's just, it's heavenly. [laughs]
Pam: Do you like, is it kind of like your morning ritual where you make your tea and then that kinda like starts your day? What's your relationship with tea?
Anna: What's my relationship with the, it's there when I always need it. It's not a daily ritual at all. It's just something I enjoy to drink. Uh, and oftentimes when people say, let's go get some coffee, I was like, sure thing. I'll have some tea. You have some coffee. We do this thing. I find that tea and coffee are just ways for people to commune together without the need or feeling like you gotta have a big meal or, you know, spend a lot of money or something like that. So for that, I have come to love tea.
Pam: Yeah. And do you have a favorite tea shop? In the south side of Chicago?
Anna: There is a tea shop and a coffee shop. I do not, but my wife does. And they make this lavender latte that she just loves. And they are based on the south side of Chicago. In this moment I cannot think of their name, but they make a, a lavender latte that she just--
Pam: That she loves.
Anna: --dies over. Yes.
Pam: Nice. Well, on my end, I wanna give a shout out to The Hamlett in San Diego, and I've talked about them before. It's a great coffee shop inland, so it's in Spring Valley, La Mesa type of place in San Diego, which is not by the water. It's more like where it's hot. So the coffee shop, I loved it the first time I went. It's family owned, it's black owned. And the kids, the children of the mom whom I met, were the ones who had the idea of creating this coffee shop because they were like, you know, we grew up in this neighborhood and we wanted to be a gathering place. We want our space to be a place for community, for building, for conversations. And so what's really cool is that it has a bleachers. So on the inside of the coffee shop, they built bleachers. And so they have done spoken word events. Like I went to a networking event at some point where, and so you sit on the bleachers like it's a great place to, like, you can get work done, you can have a conversation. Like it's great. Shout out to The Hamlett. The drinks are also great. I'm about the vibes. You know, I'm about, you know, when you look at Google Maps to see what the next place is and it's like vibe, the pictures. I always look at what the place looks like. And so The Hamlett, they did a great job. And so what's funny is that when I talked to the mom, she was like, yeah, you know, my kids, the deal was that we were gonna build it and it was crowdfunded, ps. So they did a crowdfunding campaign to make it happen. And this is the power of the people. You know, when you have an idea and you bring others into it, you make things happen. She said, the deal was that we were gonna make it happen, and then they had to go back to school. And so when I met her, she was running it and she was like, you know, I didn't, I guess I didn't think it through because I didn't realize that by the time they were gonna go back to school, like who was gonna be in charge, I guess it fell onto me. And I'm like, yeah, you know, but so good for her to make it like you have to finish your studies. Like, yeah, we're gonna build this and you know, finish your education. So it's a great place and I wanna go back. I haven't been in a long time cause it's like inland. It's like 20 minutes from me, which arguably it's like nothing. But anyway. So. I'll go soon. I'll go soon.
Anna: I love San Diego so I'll have to keep that in mind next time.
Pam: Yes! And lemme know when you're here. I'll take you. We'll, we'll meet there.
Anna: Okay. For sure.
Pam: They have tea. They have tea.
Anna: Okay, good.
Pam: Another thing that they have that I also love, like I can just gush over The Hamlett. They have a, a whole section of things that you can buy and they're all black owned. I think last time I was there I bought like a soap or like, you know, there's like stationary and they're very, I don't wanna say strict, but they're very diligent to make sure that you know the items that they bring they are black owned or black owned. Black created.
Anna: Love that.
Pam: So shout it to The Hamlett. Okay, let's go back to the show.
***
Pam: Anna we were talking about your story, how, so when you made it back you were like, you know what? This is what I'm gonna do. I need family. I need home. I've been out for a while now it's time. So you make it back to your casa. What isn't the first thing that you do? What happens?
Anna: I started looking for a job and ended up that my partner at the time was at the University of Illinois in Chicago and was in a class where someone came to present about virtual events that they were doing and webinars and online broadcasting. And she was like, you would be perfect for this. I'm gonna give them your resume and then I'll pass it along and we'll see what happens. I ended up picking her up one day and the guest speaker was in like the cafe and she was like, oh my God, you gotta come in and meet her. And I did. Ended up getting an interview and I got the job.
Pam: Yay!
Anna: So that was the beginning of my professional career in online broadcasting.
Pam: And then how did you find that? Like my mom always says that people who start businesses, they found a hole to plug. And so what did you find that gap that needed to be filled?
Anna: The idea of the business started for me in undergrad, and I just carried it along with me throughout my journey. So anytime there was a class project and it was like, if you start a business, what would it be? E3 radio was always the business. And so I carried it from undergrad all the way through. And it wasn't until I started my corporate career that I decided that I was going to pivot and create my own show, radio show so that I could play my own commercials because that's where this started for me, an undergrad was the idea of it being a college radio network and creating commercials to amplify black women and people and movements that we didn't know. So the original idea was a college radio network, which did not work. And so I pivoted and the first place I started was starting my own show. It was called the Anna DeShawn Show on Black Talk Radio. And I played my own commercials. And so that's really where I started because I saw that there weren't people telling the stories of Black LGBTQ folks in Chicago and across the country. And I wanted to tell the stories of the LGBT community. And so that's where we started. November of 2009 was my very first show.
Pam: Wow. And then what happened?
Anna: I mean, I was talking to maybe one or two people. [laughs] That's what happened. When you start anything[?], no one is listening to you. I was talking to myself.
Pam: I know that feeling. I know that feeling.
Anna: You know, you're just out here talking to yourself. And so what happened was I started taking on more shows, so I started producing other shows for the radio station, Conversations with Angie Harvey. We had Phenomenal Soul Sessions. We had a 90 show. And so we started, I started producing all these other shows for the radio station, which was a lot of fun, but at the same time, I had a full-time corporate job and a career. Right. Which was very demanding.
Pam: Right.
Anna: It was a passion project. That's what it was. And it, and it was that for 11 years.
Pam: Wow.
Anna: Until last year when I quit.
Pam: That's a business.
Anna: I know. But at the end of the day, I wasn't doing it full-time. It was a business. People thought I was doing it full time, which always made me chuckle because I thought to myself, if I really did it full time, what would you think?
Pam: Right.
Anna: Were you making money though? Here and there. But I wasn't looking to make money. My corporate career, I was paid well over time and I could just fund it. And so I funded it. If, so, I, I never sought money. Also, didn't necessarily have the time to seek funding because my career, I mean, it was a 13 hour day job, easily on any given busy season.
Pam: And then you were producing?
Anna: Yeah.
Pam: Oof! Okay.
Anna: We don't need to talk about all other things I was doing. Yeah. [laughs] I mean it's just,and all the other work that I got myself into. Yeah, no, I was doing, I was doing a lot, but I don't know any other way to be. Right. So that's how I was raised. Both my parents are extremely hardworking. They're both have given their lives to be of service to folks in one way, shape, form, or fashion. And so they kept me busy too. I was always busy, always active in activities, two, three at a time. So it's really hard for me to do one thing at a time anyway. So it's just sort of in me for who I am. So yeah, I was on that journey for a long time until I quit corporate February of 2021.
Pam: Dun, dun. And then we went in a pandemic.
Anna: Right. And that's why I quit corporate.
Pam: You hung out still for a full year. When did you get Covid?
Anna: So we got Covid in maybe October of 2020. September going into October of 2020, my wife and I contracted Covid, and because of the career that I had, which was online events and webinars for some of the largest companies in the world. That is who we were. When Covid happened, the whole world converged upon our business because there was only about three companies that could manage a hundred thousand streams at a time, managed virtual events for these corporations and understanding their networks and all these other things. So I was literally at my desk for hours on end, for North America, for EMEA, for APAc, just around the globe, because we were just so inundated with work. It was insanity. If there was insanity that would be like in a dictionary. What we were doing was utter insanity. And when we contracted Covid and my wife had to go be hospitalized and she, she was put in a bubble and had to take, uh, they gave her like the Covid cocktail at that time. Cause it was still kind of early on. They were like, we could try this out. I'm so grateful she responded to it rather quickly. And then she was able to come home. But it was totally that time where you couldn't go in the hospitals and like, you know, you had to drop people off at the door and you really didn't know what was happening. And it just made me think about what the world I was doing with my life. Like how am I spending my time? I've always been someone who's never wanted to live with regrets of any kind. And I've always felt like if I didn't give myself an opportunity to see what I could do, if I did it full time, I would absolutely live with regrets. And so that was a turning place for me when that happened. After we recovered, I just knew I needed to take the big leap. I had thought about it many times over the years. But the world was resetting with Covid.
Pam: Yes.
Anna: And I felt like if I'm gonna reset, this is the perfect time to do it with the rest of the world. And so I actually put my notice into corporate in December, but because I had been there so long and all my clients loved me, and like we had great relationships, they were like, can you please stay on for another month to transition your clients and bring other folks on and train and all these other things? And so I did. So February was my first month being a full-time entrepreneur.
Pam: How was it? You roll outta bed, it's Februaryand you don't have to report to anyone by yourself.
Anna: Exhilarating freedom that I didn't know was possible. Breathing, lots of breathing, lots of air. It was all of that, you know? And let's be clear, okay, I prepared for this moment. So we, I saved a lot. There's a lot of discipline that goes into preparing for this moment, so I was ready for it, but I didn't know. I didn't know this level of freedom existed.
Pam: Oh, that's so powerful. Well, especially because the Anna that you described before was like producing, at the end of the day, working 13 hour days, being involved with family activities, doing like all the other things, and so then all of a sudden it's like, now you can do whatever you want.
Anna: Yeah. Like literally I dictate my day.
Pam: Yes.
Anna: But that also looked like me dictating the days that I was taught how my day should be dictated.
Pam: Yes.
Anna: I had to challenge that. Challenging how I define success, how I define effectiveness, how do I define busy, how do I define all of these terms when those definitions were outlined to me meaning you worked a 13 hour day, meaning you responded to every email within the hour, meaning I was responsive, right, to everyone's call, and then I work on my stuff last. Right. Like these things that you're just taught over time in corporate America of what success means, you know? And then what is celebrated.
Pam: Yes.
Anna: What gets celebrated? So I had to, those first few months I was running myself ragged. Cause that's how I felt like I needed to be to get something done. Right. How I, how I needed to work. Cuz that's how I have worked for so long. And then I realized I quit. So I didn't have to do this. You left so you didn't have to do this so that you can think about how you can work smarter. How can you work more efficiently? How can you enjoy the day? How do you go outside and enjoy the sunshine? How do you do that? And it's still, it's a, I'm a work in progress on that front. I've come a long way, but it's still very much so a work in progress for me.
Pam: I hear you 100%. Especially because for me, for example, the signaling that's been given to me is that somebody that looks like me, works the land, works the house, my body is created to be worked. And so I have this internalized idea that if I'm not busy, then I'm not being productive. And I feel like that's the journey of entrepreneurship. You know, when I meet people I often say, look, starting your own business, yeah, it brings a lot of freedom and it also brings up all your traumas. Be ready.
Anna: Okay. One comes with the other and I always tell people it's a rollercoaster ride. It's a rollercoaster ride and it's way different than having a passion project while you have a career.
Pam: Yes.
Anna: Right. When you take a big leap and the money that you bring home is because you went out and got it and if you don't go out and get it, you don't have it. That reality is a lot and it's not something that everyone can handle and that's okay. You can have a great idea and this not be the route for you because I literally probably cried, there's seven days out of a week. I'm probably crying five of 'em at some point in the day.
Pam: I'm crying with you.
Anna: You know, at some point in the day I'm crying about something. I didn't get an opportunity. I thought I was gonna get the money I thought was gonna come through, ain't coming through. Someone said no to something else. Feeling like you're not good enough, feeling like you're not enough. I'm feeling like a failure for one reason or another. It will take you out. Okay? But thenat the same day, in the same moment in time, you'll get a yes. Uh, I find that God in Universe will send me an affirmation, a sign that I'm doing the right thing. Something will fall into alignment with someone else that I'm talking with, and it feels like this. I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be, whether I believe it's the right time or not. That's just my Virgo stuff happening. Okay? Releasing the control of the what and the how and staying committed to my why, right? It's just, it's a continual journey, and so I understand when I see people who have made "it", whatever their definition of "made it" is, and I hear them speak, it hits so different because I understand the sacrifice that it took to get there in ways that I would've never understood prior to February of 2021.
Pam: I wanna talk to you about your exit plan. I think that's super key, and I love that you mentioned that you were prepared, like this is something that was in the works, that you weren't like Pam, who had just literally woke up one morning and was like, I'm fed up with this corporate stuff and I quit. So I'm glad you took the time to plan it out and have an exit strategy. So could you walk us through your exit plan?
Anna: A hundred percent. I took my budget. I looked at how much we were spending. I looked at where we needed to cut, where we could cut, what was required cutting, what was optional cutting. I looked at how far out I thought. How long it would take me to make some revenue. I planned for that. Yeah. I thought about all the ways I could bring in income, whether it was running broadcast for people, because at that point we were still in middle Covid, so so many people were running their live broadcast and their businesses didn't know what they were doing. I've been doing it for the last 12 years. I can use any product, right? And I know all the best practices and all these things, so I wrote out all of that and I took my savings and figured out how many months we could go, given where we currently were, how many months we could go if we cut all this other stuff out, and what are our backups when all of this runs out. I did all those projections in planning for the exit, and I think it's incredibly important to do that because things are not guaranteed.
Pam: I love that because I didn't, so I've helped now so many people have an exit strategy because it is important. It gives you so much more safety. We talked about safety in the beginning and the thing that money brings, while it might not buy happiness, it can bring you safety. It can bring that place of my rent's paid, my bills are paid, I can eat tomorrow, and then the next few weeks we're good because I, for example, me, I found myself with $1 and 21 cents in my bank account at some point because I didn't have a plan. And so that's when I realized, all right, you're not gonna paycheck anymore. We wanna prevent that because then I went into a space of desperation and scarcity and fear of what am I gonna do tomorrow? And I did create the list of what are the different ways that I could make money, and that was like a little latebecause I was already at a place of like, okay, somebody just hired me. I need to make money tomorrow or yesterday, you know? And so I do commend 100% having a plan in place and really understanding all of the things that you mentioned, your needs, what are the must haves, what are the nice to haves, what are the like it would be cool to have, and then really operate from that place and make sure that you have at least, I would say, I don't know, three months of savings. What do you think?
Anna: Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. At least three months. I think you plan for when you think you'll be able to make some significant revenue, but you definitely have to be clear on how much you're spending every month to survive. And if getting your nails done is part of your survival, then you better add it because life is short. We're quitting this corporate job so we can live a better life. So I don't know how you gonna live a better life if you feel like you're not yourself without your nails done or your hair getting done. For me, those things are not optional services. That's the things that help me take care of myself. That make me feel like myself, that help me feel like I'm a, a human being out here in the world. So those things are required. [laughs] I'll also say that I talked with other people who had taken the Big Leap before. I talked with people who were full-time entrepreneurs around how they have found success in their own lives and in their work. And they, they were really important to me too in that journey of taking the big leap. And then also reading, actually, I don't necessarily read, but listening to the book called The Big Leap.
Pam: Oh, it's one of my faves. Yes.
Anna: It's a game changer, understanding everything he was talking about and that's hindering your success and how you flip that game. Don't do anything. Don't pass goal without reading or listening to The Big Leap.
Pam: I read The Big Leap once a year.
Anna: That's real. I've definitely listened to it at least three times.
Pam: I mean, of course it comes from a very like cis white man perspective and the research that's been done, it's like really powerful to just even have awareness of like, okay, wait. Am I hitting an upper limit? Am I sabotaging this? Or what are we doing? When I read that book for the first time, I was like, wait a like, and then I was, I looked back at all of the things that I sabotged and I'm like, oh my gosh. Like I just let so many opportunities pass because I didn't believe I was worthy of them. So many. So having that awareness is powerful.
Anna: Yes. Having that awareness is extremely powerful. Upper limiting is something that we all do and don't have a name for it. And so that's why reading and listening to books or enlightenment is so incredibly important cuz you find words for things that you're doing. And language allows us to open up opportunities for growth. And self sabotage is just so in me to hit a moment and be like, hit this euphoric moment and then not build from there. I think, you know, one of the easy, most relatable examples is with working out or trying to lose weight, you hit a goal and you can't sustain it. It's cuz you didn't think you could hit it. Then you hit it and now you go celebrating and then you, you gained it all back or lose your momentum instead of building on it because you don't think you can deserve to be there all the time. Like you think you can't have it all. But we can have it all. They were liars. They were liars, Pam.
Pam: They were liars.
Anna: They said we couldn't. They said we couldn't. But you can. You can have it all.
Pam: Yes you can.
Anna: And you deserve it all.
Pam: 100%. Oh my gosh, yes. Tell me about The Qube.
Anna: It's the evolution of E3 Radio. It's the evolution of my work and building this platform has been one of the biggest labors of love that I've probably ever embarked upon. I have no idea, no clue how it's going to work itself out, but I absolutely believe in what we're doing and I believe we will find someone else and someone else's who believe in it as well. And so The Qube will be the number one destination to find the best BIPOC podcast on the planet.
Pam: Yes.
Anna: Plain and simple. That's what we're building.
Pam: When is it ready? What's the roadmap?
Anna: I thought it would've been ready. I mean, I'm on this founder journey that I'm learning a lot about myself, and I'm learning a lot about this process, A lot about what it takes to bring an app to the market. So the idea was that we'd be live to the public in September. I don't feel like that's gonna be a thing. I feel like whatever timelines I had outlined ain't got nothing to do with what God has in mind with this thing. So I'm really just.
Pam: Your Virgo is being challenged.
Anna: Every day. Every single day. My Virgo is being challenged in that way. What I will say is that we're getting closer every day. What I will say is that we have accepted 94 podcasts into the app. Which have over 8,000 episodes of content in the library. I will say we have curated and have accepted the very best podcasts that I'm about 90% sure you would've never found in any of the current apps that are hosting podcasts today. I will say we've got a great team that is doing some wonderful work to bring this app to life. So when, I have no idea. This is in the hands of God in the universe, but it's coming. I know it's coming. We've got a prototype, we've got the MVP, we've got a test flight version of the app. I love where it's going. It's just not ready yet for public consumption. But we're getting close. We're getting close. We're getting close. And I think the mission and the why are so incredibly important that other people will believe in what we're doing too.
Pam: Tell me the why.
Anna: Because we deserve. Black, brown, people of color deserve amplification and visibility. and today the biggest players in this space aren't doing that, and it's hard for people to remember television before BT or media before, I don't know, Telemundo or Logo TV. Right? It's really hard for people to conceptualize television without these mediums. But today that's podcasting.
Pam: Yes.
Anna: Today that is podcasting. There is no space that is amplifying and centering black indigenous people of color podcasts. And every time I say that, people be like, what? I'll be like, yeah, it's true. And we're trying to bring this thing to market, so here are some ways you can support us in doing this work. Right. So I think it's very hard for people to conceptualize that this doesn't exist.
Pam: Unless you're in there cuz, I'm like, yes, 100%. I mean, how many times have the bigger podcast players completely ignored me or other podcasts because we don't have the reach, we don't have the listeners, we don't have the PR teams, we don't have, you know, whatever. Yes, it's real.
Anna: It's very real. And people like you are putting in hard work, time, resources, have a audience, you got a consistent following, right. You have all the makings of a successful podcast, and yet people still can't find you. And people still can't discover you. That is a shame and that is a problem and we gonna fix it. I feel like what we're building is really special. One thing we're doing that differentiates us is that when you sign up, you choose the podcast you like listening to of course, you know, is it society and culture? Is it comedy? And then choose your identities. Cause I think culturally aligned content is what we are talking about, right? So choose your identities. Are you Latina and looking for Spanish speaking content, or bilingual content and comedy, and you put all those things in. If we got it, you're going to get served that, right away.
Pam: Yes.
Anna: That's gonna be served up to you on your home page. Because people do want culturally aligned content.
Pam: 100%.
Anna: They do. They wanna see themselves. They wanna hear themselves. And as a Black American, I'm also very interested in the content of other people of color. I'm very interested in what's happening with the Latinx community. I'm very interested in what challenges, um, the Latinx community is facing. Because we are all in this together. So are we talking about immigration? Right? What are we talking about today? Like, what are the major issues? Because television is not gonna tell me that, but podcasting will tell me that, people in podcasting will tell me what's happening. Because podcasting has a very specific audience. You as a whole have a very specific audience, a very specific niche that you care about, that you speak to. And that is why podcasting is so incredibly effective when it comes to podcast ads and why people have such loyal listeners, because they care about what you, and they care about what you're talking about. So I can find out by listening to a few podcasts, like what's happening in the Latinx community, what's happening in the LGBTQ community, what's happening in Black America? What's happening with AAPI right now, right? All the hate crimes that were happening to Asian Americans here during Covid. Like how are they dealing with that? How can we support them? How can we break down our own biases amongst each other? And I think the way we do that is through media. I think the way we do that is by listening and podcasting gives us that. So if we can put the best in there, and when I say the best, I can say that because we have curators that listen to every podcast, two curators listen to every single podcast. They rate them based upon our cubric[?] that we put together. So there's work being put in. People aren't just hosting their podcast here, we're saying that these are the best.
Pam: What a fun job for the curators.
Anna: Well, they would argue sometimes it's fun. [laughs] All podcasts are not made the same. Just like anything. But they, but they do they discover new content. They have, they're on the front lines of discovering all this new content. And so many people that I've talked to who are part of The Qube started their podcasts during the pancake. They, they had something to say. They didn't have anywhere to go, and they needed an outlet. And I think that's at the heart of podcasting.
Pam: 100%. You grab a mic and then you talk into the world and hope that somebody listens.
Anna: You know? And then when they start listening, you upgrade the microphone. Okay. And then.
Pam: Indeed.
Anna: And then you figure out how you can get better at it, especially if you enjoy it. Right? And then I think that's where we have to get to.
Pam: Yeah. And then you realize that you say things because you don't think anyone's listening. And then they ask you about it and you're like, wait, how do you know? And they're like, well, you said, and I'm like, oh, sh- so people are listening. So maybe I have to calm down and not share so much personal stuff.
Anna: That happens to me all the time. People come up to me and they'll ask me something and, and I said it on air, and I be like, how did you know that? And I'll be like, oh, right, I talked about that myself. Yeah, that happens all the time.
Pam: People ask me about my dog all the time, which I love. But then I'm like, when did I share that, this ha-- like, what? And they're like, you know, episode whatever with so and so you talked about this. And I'm like, oh my gosh. We're totally like, we are really are like really good friends. You just know more about me than I know about you.
Anna: Right. Right? It's awesome, it's awesome. And I think for me, radio has always had that impact as well. I think every medium is, is a bit different. The way you view your television news host is different than how you view your favorite radio DJ. How much you know about them. Right. Television, they read off teleprompters. There is no riffing. Okay. Radio DJs, they riff all the time. They probably talk about their kids from time to time. You know a little bit more about them. Podcasting takes it to a whole another level. Okay. It's about as intimate listening as you usually can get, and you learn all about the host. People come for the content, but they stay for the hosts.
Pam: Thank you for that.
Anna: Yeah. Podcasting has an incredible impact on people and it's still such a very new medium. It's been around for 20 years, but it's still so new to people and I think people are just realizing. The reach and the power that podcasting has today. You know, we can point to incidences like Joe Rogan to just highlight the impact that podcasting is having and can have on society.
Pam: Yes, 100%. You mentioned how like people are now finding out that podcast is such intimate medium. I will say that because it is, people truly can tell when you're in it for the medium or when you're in it for the money. Because if you're just like, somebody asked me recently, like, do you podcast to get clients? And I'm like, actually, I started my podcast before I had a business because I wanted to share stories of people that I wasn't hearing. And so it was a selfish, a very selfish project to start having conversations with people that I wanted to hear their story, I just happened to make them public because I was like, if I'm hearing these awesome conversations, like this conversation was so great that it would be a disservice to not make them public, you know. So.
Anna: Yeah, I love that.
Pam: That's how I started. So when, when they asked me that, I was like, no, I, I don't do it to get clients and I get clients from it because to your point, people get to know me, people hear me, and they hear about my body of work, and then they're like, I guess she's kind of my people. Let's, let's work together. But it's not on purpose that I do it to get clients. Of course, I do promote my services, of course, because I'm a business owner now. Right. And you know this like, listen, always stay selling because you never know when somebody's ready. So.
Anna: Always ready. Okay.
Pam: I do talk about my work now . And it isn't necessarily a direct marketing tool that I use that I could say like, Café con Pam is a tool to get clients. No. Cause it started truly to share the stories of our people.
Anna: Absolutely.
Pam: Okay. So are you ready for some rapid fire questions?
Anna: I love it. Let's do it.
Pam: All right. What's the biggest success that you're celebrating?
Anna: We just won our first award for our queer news podcast that I host every day. So I'm still celebrating that right now.
Pam: Yay! Congrats. What is the lesson that you are still learning?
Anna: Patience.
Pam: Did you have an "I made it" moment?
Anna: When Lena Waithe and I talk.
Pam: What is something you've been putting off for months?
Anna: Cleaning up my room.
Pam: I hear that. Ooh. I don't know if you're like, you're familiar with this one, but Vics or chamomille tea?
Anna: Vics or chamomille tea?
Pam: Yeah.
Anna: I'm going go with the tea.
Pam: All right. What is Love?
Anna: Sacrifice.
Pam: Joy or peace?
Anna: Joy.
Pam: Discipline or habits?
Anna: Discipline.
Pam: They didn't think I could "blank", but I did.
Anna: They didn't think I could build it, but I did.
Pam: Give me "blank" and I will "blank".
Anna: Give me a little and I'll make it a lot.
Pam: What is stopping you?
Anna: Myself.
Pam: What are you willing to fail over and over?
Anna: I don't believe in failure.
Pam: What is a talk you can do without prep?
Anna: Crowdfund. Let's get this money.
Pam: What do you want right now?
Anna: Funding.
Pam: What are you creating today?
Anna: Proposals.
Pam: What is the future?
Anna: Women.
Pam: What would you do if I gave you a hundred dollars?
Anna: Buy NFT. Actually I would mint Nft, I would mint NFT if you gave me a hundred dollars.
Pam: What if I told you that you had to spend it on yourself? There was an eye roll there, listeners.
[laughs]
Anna: I don't even know. Um, maybe I'll get me a new bag. I like bags. Maybe I'll get me a new bag. And a new hat. And a new hat. I love my hats, so.
Pam: Perfect. Perfect. If you had a magic wand, what would you fix in your business?
Anna: Cash flow.
Pam: Thank you. That's it. Rapid fire questions are done.
Anna: That was fun.
Pam: Okay. And the last three questions before we, I ask you, tell me where we can find you. All the links of the places, all the spaces, all, like all of it.
Anna: Yeah. You can follow me at annadeshawn across all social medias, and you can follow The Qube app across all social medias, T H E Q U B E App, and check out our websites E3radio.fm and theqube.app, sign up for our newsletter automatically puts you on our wait list so you can stay in the know about all of the things happening with the, with the app, our development process and where we're at with things. So go to theqube.app, sign up for the newsletter and the wait list. Absolutely. And if you have a podcast and you identify as a black, indigenous, or a person of color, please submit your podcast to be part of The Qube.
Pam: Yes, do it. Listeners. Do it. Awesome. Last three questions. What's your remedy? Do you have a remedy that you wanna share?
Anna: Prayer and meditation is my remedy to all things. I sat in my prayer and meditation corner and journal and reflect on a daily basis.
Pam: I love that. Now you share that you grew up in the church one time. I had a friend who was very like unsure about meditation, and I asked one of my teachers and she said, prayer is talking to God. Meditation is talking with God.
Anna: And listening to God.
Pam: Yes.
Anna: Often when we pray, we are busy talking and making requests and meditation allows me to listen to what God is actually saying to me in this moment and where she thinks I should be going and doing.
Pam: And do you have a quote or mantra that you live by right now?
Anna: You are enough. Release all self defeating behaviors and thoughts. I am a reflection of God's grace. I listen to my affirmations every morning. To remind me that I am enough. Yes.
Pam: Yes, yes, yes, indeed. And the last question, do you have a productivity tip or tactic that you often fall into, or use?
Anna: Yes. I use Asana to project manage my entire life. I need tasks that I can check off and feel like I've accomplished something. So that is my productivity tip, is to put it somewhere else outside of your head, because I often feel like my head is going to explode. So.
Pam: Yes, I love that.
Anna: I believe in project management tools.
Pam: I support that 100%. Because one thing to remember is that our heads are meant to think, not hold information.
Anna: Yes.
Pam: Anna, thank you so much for being at Café con Pam. This was awesome. We could stay talking. There's so many things that we could, you know, talk about, but sadly this is coming to an end. But I'm so grateful that you came and shared all the things and inspired us with your story.
Anna: Thank you so much for having me. This has been a joy and I appreciate you and the work you're doing. Thank you so much.
Pam: Thank you. Likewise.
Anna: Listeners, stay shining!
***
All right, listeners, what do you think? What are your thoughts on this interview? I would love for you to screenshot and tag me on the socials. I'm going to go back to posting. I'm working on it. I know, I've been saying like, gimme a word when I promote the episode, drop the word in there and then I stop doing it. Cause I'm like, I'm not even posting the episode, but I understand and acknowledge I am the bottleneck of this equation. And so I am taking steps into changing things, hiring the people that I need to hire to make it happen. So I'll be, I'll be back. Do, please tag me. I do enjoy when I see your tags and your comments on the episodes and when we in the dms, you share what you loved about the conversation and how it inspired you to make things happen. It's really powerful when I hear from you and you're like, you know what? I was at the verge of giving up and then I listened to this person's story and I decided to give it one more try because I am worth it and ugh, that's why I do what I do. I really invite you to do that. If you feel called to. I so appreciate you for that. And now if you want to take it a step further, this is the time when I invite you to leave a rating, a review, subscribe, rate, and review, because that increases the podcast visibility. And because 87% of the population look at reviews before deciding, this is your chance to tell others about Café con Pam. I know. Now, here's a caveat. If you listen on Spotify, there's no way to live a review yet. Yet. So those of you who are still listening on Apple Podcasts, and listen, I look at the numbers. I know it's 80% of you who listen to an Apple podcast, entonces from the thousands of people that listen to Café con Pam now, según according to the numbers, we only have like a couple hundred of reviews or ratings, entonces mira, te invito, no te cuesta nada, I mean te cuesta like a minute. So I do appreciate it if you leave a rating, if you can, and I know a lot of you listen to this driving or you know, when you're limpiando on Sundays, and I know you're like, I'll get to it, I'll get to it. So that's why I remind you every episode as annoying as it might be to you who have left reviews, Laurita Chiquita, who's left like three reviews. You're like ya te dejé. you know? But this is for the people that haven't.
Let's stay connected. Let's connect on the socials and all the platforms, social media at cafeconpampodcast, both Instagram and Facebook. I'm more on Instagram than on Facebook. I frankly dunno how to check messages on Facebook, is really confusing. So if you've sent me a message on Facebook and I haven't responded, it's not that I'm rude, is that I don't know how to get to them, I get notifications like somebody sent you a message on Facebook and I'm like, okay, take me to it. And then when I click on it, it takes me to like a page. It's so weird. I'm gonna start posting on TikTok, cafeconpampod and of course my favorite place is the Stay Shining Club. It is an online space to gather together and have conversations. We talk about a lot of things. It's super fun actually. Stayshining.club is a Discord server. I chose to do a Discord server cuz I'm in the Web3 world. I started an NFT project. That's a whole other podcast that you can listen to. And Discord is a great place to build connections, relationships, collaborations, camaraderie. So I invite you to do that. It's absolutely no cost to you. Stayshining.club. You do have to create an account. They do have an app, which is fun. So we talk about first generation problems. We show off our pets. We have a bot that gives us our horoscope. So you can request your horoscope at any time and it's quite accurate. Kind of scary, pero pues ahí está, for you to use it at any time. We talk about films and TV shows, we discuss them. It's quite the fun place because a lot of times I love having the one-on-one conversations with you on dms, pero a veces is like, oh my gosh, this would be a great conversation to have more people involved. I'm a full on being of multiple people. I love groups. I love, I'm an extrovert, I gues. So I invite you to join, Stayshining.club.
If you are curious about my work and what I do, I support Latina owned, woman owned business owners, and we dismantle the damages of Calladita culture. And so I am a disruptor. I have deconstructed the ways that we have been taught to do business. They're archaic, they are old, they were written by people that are not like us in so many ways, not just the color of our skin, but in so many ways and the times are different. And so I honed into my disruptor nature, and I deconstructed a lot of the principles in business because business is my passion. And so now I teach people how to be liberated from those constructs and truly create a liberated business. So if you're curious about that, check on my site, pamcovarrubias.com, decolonizeyourbusiness.com, cafeconpam.com. All of them take you to the same place.
Y bueno, I hope you have a fantastic rest of your day. Do something that makes you happy, even if that is doing a quick dance in your living room or giving yourself a hug or doing a little tap tap to regulate your nervous system and make you feel better. You deserve it. Thank you for being here. I so, so appreciate your time, y como siempre, stay shining!