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Tom and Dan had one of the most successful Kickstarters of 2010 when they released the Glif. But was that enough to launch full-time careers as product makers?
Show Notes
Tom and Dan had one of the most successful Kickstarters of 2010 when they released the Glif. But was that enough to launch full-time careers as product makers?
In this episode, they delve into how they started Studio Neat (their company) and give tons of practical tips for building physical products, and doing crowdfunding campaigns.
(This episode contains giggles)
Show notes:
- studioneat.com
- Glif Kickstarter
- Daring Fireball’s post on Glif
- Their book: It Will be Exhilarating
- Studio Neat’s Vimeo channel
Note from Justin
I’m launching a brand new book tomorrow (Feb 10th, 2016): Marketing for Product People.
When I wrote Marketing for Developers a lot of non-engineers asked if I could re-write the book for them. So I did! If you’re planning on launching a product in 2016, this is a great starting point. Get a free chapter here.
I also have a new podcast! It’s called MegaMaker. Each episode is only 10-13 minutes long, and there’s a new “maker mission” every week. You can listen + subscribe + review in iTunes.
Music: Lethal Force by Striker, visit them at striker-metal.com
Creators and Guests
What is Product People?
A podcast focused on great products and the people who make them
Welcome back to the Product People Show. All you folks who are still subscribed to this feed, thank you. These are the true fans, the people that keep subscribed no matter how many shows are coming through. And today, I have a surprise for you, a great conversation with Tom and Dan from Studio Neat. If you have ever wanted to make your own physical products or you've thought about, you know, it'd be cool if I could have, like, a boutique and make numerous different products for different audiences, this interview is all about that.
Speaker 1:Before we get to that, today is 02/09/2016, and tomorrow, February 10, I'm launching marketing for product people. Now those of you that have been around for a while know that I released a book in October called marketing for developers. It did really well. But a lot of people, saw that and said, you know, I would really like that same information. So they asked me to rewrite it for non engineers, and that is what I did.
Speaker 1:You can get yourself a copy at justinjackson.ca/marketingforproductpeople. There's also a free chapter there with a really good tip on getting more leads through Twitter using Twitter cards. So go check that out. Justinjackson.ca/marketingforproductpeople. Alright.
Speaker 1:Let's get into the show. Katrina, you can't keep you can't keep all the friendly stuff before you hit record.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. It's true. That's that's something I think we're learning is, on our podcast, to just start record like, start the show right away and leave some of the banter in.
Speaker 1:Some people love the banter and some people hate
Speaker 2:I think it's good.
Speaker 3:That's what a nerdist does where they just like don't even tell the guest they're recording. Yeah, yeah. It seems to work well.
Speaker 1:And then they finish the whole interview and they wonder why the other guy hung up on them. Wait. Wait. Alright, guys. Well, let's let's get into it.
Speaker 1:You guys wanna jump right in?
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Sure. Do we do we need a how's your neighbor? How's, how's the kid?
Speaker 2:Good. He's good. He's, walking around now. So, you know, that's a whole new world. Kinda he's like 11 11.
Speaker 2:So he's, you know
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. And and you still you're still working from home?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Oh, as soon as they start walking, that's when you gotta get out of there, man.
Speaker 2:Well, he you know, I have a closed door and
Speaker 1:You have a closed door policy.
Speaker 2:Yes. I have a closed door policy. Soon I will, like, install one of those red lights, a recording studio light, or it's like, you cannot enter when this red light's off.
Speaker 1:That's always good for kids when they're explaining to their friends at school what goes on. When dad's got the red light on, I'm not allowed to go in his room.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Not weird or creepy at all.
Speaker 1:And how about you, Dan? How's things going over there? Much Good. How much hockey are you playing these days?
Speaker 3:Same as before, which is zero.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 3:I was
Speaker 1:in was
Speaker 3:in Minnesota for Christmas, and I was near a lake, but it wasn't frozen sufficiently enough to wander on it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I I know I'm the only person that likes that joke, but I just I just can't get over it. I couldn't I like it.
Speaker 3:You're the first person who ever thought that or said that about me or my name.
Speaker 1:So But has there been has there been anyone else? I think I'm the only one, aren't I?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. They're the first and only. Wait.
Speaker 2:Is Dan Bromos a Canadian hockey player or just a hockey player?
Speaker 1:To me, Provost just sounds like a hockey name, but I think there is a provo I think there was a provost. Let's see. Provost NHL. Yeah. Claude Joseph Antoine provost.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Provost has, like, French Canadian roots, somewhere along the line.
Speaker 1:Here. I'm gonna show you Tom, you never knew this, but I'm gonna show you Dan's great grandpa. This guy right here. Let's see if I can zoom in on this guy. Oh, this is they they could only afford the 220 pixel wide version.
Speaker 2:But Right.
Speaker 1:Claude Clovis. Good old good old grandpa Claude.
Speaker 2:It kinda looks it kinda looks like Dan. That could be part of his mythology.
Speaker 1:I don't even know. I I mean, he's clearly not American with a last name like that. So Yeah. Right. Alright.
Speaker 2:Definitely not.
Speaker 1:This is how I'd like to start this interview. This I I was actually thinking about this the other day. I was thinking about the first time I met Dan when I made that joke. And I asked Dan, as you do, what do you do? And do you remember what you said, Dan?
Speaker 3:No, I don't.
Speaker 1:I mean, we were drunk at the time. But you said, well, I make This was the pause you did. You said, well, I make things, and and that was basically it. So
Speaker 2:You know, right.
Speaker 1:Maybe to give people an idea of what you guys do, because you guys are two guys, they don't know how you guys are, you know, what Do you guys work together, what? What do you guys do?
Speaker 3:We make things.
Speaker 2:Case closed.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us today, guys. And you guys started a company called Studio Neat?
Speaker 3:Yes. So we started out five years ago with a kick starter project for a little tripod mount for the iPhone four. So that was the first thing that we made, and that was just totally a side project, like we were both working full time as basically software designers, and then had this idea for a product and put it on kickstarter, And you know, kind of the rest is history. It blew up and kind of forced us to think about starting a company and doing it full time, which are two things we did shortly after the Kickstarter project. And then we've just been making stuff both physical and software ever since.
Speaker 1:And so you guys had never made anything like a physical product before?
Speaker 2:Not at the mass scale, no. Like both Dan and I, because of our schooling background and general interest, we like made a lot of things, used our hands and knew our way around that. But, yeah, definitely nothing like that was sold and like we dealt with manufacturers and stuff like that. Yeah. Nothing
Speaker 1:and so that was, was that the glyph? Was that the first one?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the glyph, yeah, yeah. So the glyph and yeah, we, you know, we, since then we've made all kinds of things. We've done several pieces of this, we've done, like a capacitive stylus, some like cocktail accessories, other like iOS type accessories. We'll probably, we'll do some electronic stuff in the future, so a pretty wide berth. We are a little bit strange in that we haven't picked a genre or like a product line really, we kind of go super horizontal.
Speaker 2:Like if you go to our website, there's iPhone accessories next to like cocktail stuff, next to you know, this and that. Yeah. And so book stuff, and so, not the smartest way to do things certainly, but it's just fun. Like basically we just, the way, when we decide to make something, it's because it's like a need we have in our life. We're like, man, you know, I wish this existed, or wish this thing was like this, and so we, you know, if we think that other people agree, and that there's a market there, and the pricing fits and all this stuff works, then we'll just make it.
Speaker 2:And so, it kinda makes a strange brand, but it's really fun for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now let's talk about that actually, while we're on the, while we, because you brought it up. Because I've been writing about that quite a bit. Do you think it's not the smartest way to do it? To have a variety like that instead of just focusing on one thing?
Speaker 2:It's safe in that like if you look at our revenue, there's no thing we sell that's bigger than like a third of our company. So it's not like we have this one product and everything depends on the one product. So in some ways that diversification is really nice. But where I feel where it's downside is, you know, for instance the Glif. We could have taken the Glif and made Glifco, like Glif Inc.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And had a company that's just about the Glif and all about camera accessories, and just built out a line, and what happens is, your customers know that's what you're known for, and they can come back for different stuff, and you can like sell them the new versions and all this stuff, and it's just like a really easy way to kind of compartmentalize stuff. Yeah. But we, you know, we don't do that. So like say, we have a mailing list, you know, like a bunch of people on it who were there because of the glyph and what we made before with like Apple related stuff, now we have cocktail stuff and it's like, you guys want this too?
Speaker 2:You know, so that's what's kind of strange.
Speaker 1:And have they? How much overlap is there? Like how many repeat customers do you have going from genre to genre?
Speaker 3:It totally kind of depends like, with the cocktail stuff, I think that had a pretty decent, you know, kind of Venn diagram overlap. I think that they're pretty similar kind of demographics of who are interested in in those types of things, generally speaking. But there's been other things we've tried where that's not been the case, know, tried to make this pet toy thing last year which didn't work out, and so I think that was an example of the downside of what Tom was saying, where it's like, you're essentially starting from scratch more or less with a new audience that is not existing that you already have, and so there's definitely a downside to that if it doesn't work.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So on the pro side, you've said you felt like these are things that you personally are passionate about, so it makes it easy to want to develop them. But the downside is there's not necessarily you can't necessarily go back to those same customers each know, time after time and say, you know, here's something new.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it gets even more crazy, like even just press contacts, or just knowing the space. Or like when we tried to release a pet toy on Kickstarter, like, we didn't have press contacts like in the like pet world, right? And so it's starting, it's literally almost starting from scratch, right? So, and the other big thing, which is kind of a big deal is just supply chain. So, when you're making a physical product, you know, we have a really, if we were to make versions of the glyph, we have everything set up for that.
Speaker 2:So it's very easy actually to make a new version of a glyph. But for instance, we're working on two new products right now. One of them is a soft good. So it's the first time we've done anything with like real fabric or like a technical like fabric thing.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 2:And so, A, we don't know the manufacturing language. We don't have any manufacturing partners. We don't have any of that stuff. And so we're kind of building a supply chain from scratch with every new product sometimes. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that takes a lot of time and it's one of the hardest things to do. So that's another big piece is just like, those infrastructural issues are really easy when you're just kinda tweaking something, but when you're doing a whole new thing it's rough.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But I guess if we do that enough times, we'll eventually exhaust all of the like manufacturing methods, then we'll just be set. We could make any money.
Speaker 1:Is that something you guys debate? Like between you guys is like, man, Dan, we gotta we gotta niche down. We gotta focus on one thing.
Speaker 3:It's not really a debate, it's always kind of a conversation though, it's like something we're always kind of questioning and thinking about, but in general, we've been the same, we we stay the same as we've always been, which is just like, letting product ideas that excite us kind of guide what we work on. I think definitely recently, we're trying to be a little bit smarter about, you know, serving our existing audience and things like that. But we've been pretty consistent in just like, you know, following the excitement of our ideas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Do you feel like, the funny thing is that like, the other kind of, I'm sure you're gonna hate this, but the other people I think about all the time that seems similar to you is the guys that need want? Is that what they're called?
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Yeah. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Are those guys like your mortal enemies?
Speaker 2:No. We Yeah.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:We actually Yeah. We have kind of met them, and we're kind of doing a little thing with them. And so, yeah, no, they are very similar. One of the main differences, I think, between us and them, in terms of the way they structure their brands, is you know, Need Want is like an umbrella corporation, of, right, or a parent corporation. And then they'll have like Peel or something, which is a sub brand.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And there's not, when they have a different kind of product line, they like have brands for them. Yeah. And we have decided to make it more flat and horizontal where you come to Studio Neat and we have all this different stuff.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:I think we're starting to run into a problem where we're gonna have more and more stuff and so we need to kind of silo and have segments. Know, like say with, for instance email is a really good example. Like, it'd be nice to have an email list that's just cocktail folks, so that we can talk to them and make content about specific nerdy cocktail stuff, I have to talk to the Glif people about that. Yeah, yeah. So, so we're gonna, we're thinking about ways we can kind of dice that up, but we still want, we think Studio Neat to be there.
Speaker 2:So the main way we kind of approach product branding in that way is we, you know, like, glyph by Studio or the Cosmonaut. And so the name of the product is pretty strongly branded and sometimes has a logo. Yeah. But it's like still by Studio Nita always. So that's a main difference.
Speaker 2:But beyond that, yeah, it feels pretty kindred spirits, those guys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because they're doing a bunch of different things. You just need to segment your list. You got cat ladies, alcoholics.
Speaker 2:And, like, photonarricks. Yeah. We're good. Nobody
Speaker 1:sees those segments. It's okay. You can name them whatever you like. Now I wanna talk about going pro because you guys released that first thing, and it went nuts on Kickstarter. Yep.
Speaker 1:What the was there just, an apparition in front of my face?
Speaker 3:I think that was like a piece of fuzz or something.
Speaker 1:It's a good thing that didn't catch on fire with these, like, lights I got going. The you guys went pro really quick with the glyph. And was that primarily because of the Gruber effect? Is that really what what happened?
Speaker 3:Totally. Yeah. It was I mean, basically, we he linked it kinda within the first twenty four hours of us launching it, and it was just, you know, like a total hockey stick thing. And then, you know, Gizmodo and all these others, you know, found it as a result of the Groover post. So, I would see that was definitely the catalyst.
Speaker 1:So what was that like? Because there's some people that, like, work for a long time. And actually, even those guys that need want are interesting because they started with, little products and they kinda kept notching themselves up. And you guys were kind of on a, what do we call a speed train right away.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. We went zero to sixty years insane. Mean, I don't think we've ever had a good of a year revenue wise as like our first full year. So it was really like really big, really fast.
Speaker 2:But it's funny because Dan and I stayed with our full time jobs working four days a week for like six months. So we had like shipped the glyph, it was all done, and then we had another, the next idea was a cosmonaut. We launched it as a kickstarter, and then I think as soon as we saw that that kind of took off, then we're like, okay, we know we're gonna need the time to really devote to selling the glyph and developing the cosmonauts, so that's when we decided to both quit our job. So we were really conservative because like, we had a good business like immediately with the glyph, but we just didn't. The thing I remember is this was 2010 when we were the first big Kickstarter for a product ever.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so it wasn't like, it felt like a fluke. Like it was like, is this, we weren't sure like, is this just like fake and a fluke? But then when it happened again, we're like, okay, this can happen. So it just convinced us that there's a future in it and we should keep going.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But do you think the second one, were there a lot of people that followed you to that second, to the cosmonaut?
Speaker 3:I think so, yeah. And we didn't even, we got, we definitely got some good press for that, but like I don't think Gruber linked to it the second time around. And so that that was another thing that was really encouraging, is like, okay, we've actually built a little bit of an audience here to where we don't have to have Gruber link every one of our products for them to succeed. Yeah. So that was encouraging.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And what made you, like, wanna keep what was it about that? Because that must have also been insane to figure out. I everyone I talked to that's been in your boat to figure out fulfillment and to figure out all that stuff, which I'm sure was a nightmare while you were working at the same time. What was it about it that made you wanna keep going?
Speaker 2:We got tricked.
Speaker 1:Was a synchronized sigh.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, you know what I you know what
Speaker 1:I say about sighs? Is that a sigh is like a meditation for really busy people? And then you just
Speaker 2:So yeah, no, we got tricked. The glyph was very easy and it had no hiccups. We, it got manufactured and shipped out in three months, which is unheard of and crazy. And so next time around we're like, this stuff is easy, like it just all came together. And you know, we've subsequently learned that that is not the case, but yeah, we, there was no big problems at all, so it was really easy to just be like, let's do that again.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but also, and you know, the reason that we've like continued doing it and doing products is, that nothing really beats the rush of like putting a new product out there, it's Kickstarter or just like our own thing or releasing an app or whatever. I think it's just like a very addictive feeling that we just keep chasing over and over again.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well actually, let's talk about that piece, because in some ways in my own life I'm moving into that too of Last year, I made a bunch of money consulting, and it was basically just focused on one thing. And then on the side, I always had side projects. But now that I stopped consulting in November, that feeling of like, wow, I gotta do this like over and over and over again. You guys must also feel on the other hand of like, wow, maybe we should just become Glifco and just like, you know, make a billion Glifs and, you know, just start shipping them out.
Speaker 1:So what do you guys have stress around product launches? Do you also stress about, like, if we have no good ideas next year? Maybe take me through some of that.
Speaker 2:Definitely. We definitely stress out about product launches. Mean, we don't release something until we feel good about it. So the fear, like say with Obi, like Obi was our first kind of big failure, just this last summer. And I think where came away from it saying, we designed the product we wanted to exist, we did a good job there, but it just didn't have the market or we didn't have a big enough megaphone to tell the right people or whatever.
Speaker 2:So we always feel pretty good about the product, and then you know, if something is not what we quite think, it's just, it usually comes up to like market fit or something. Mhmm. But yeah, no, we stress out, I mean, we definitely stress out about it, and there's definitely the, You know, like, we don't know what we're gonna be doing in six months, basically. We have a little bit of a roadmap, we have some products we're developing now that we're hopefully gonna get out soon. So it really is like, we're reliant on these new ideas, and that's kind of how our business is structured.
Speaker 2:But, you know, there's a lot of stuff out there. I think the faith we have is that there's a ton of stuff out there, and there's a ton of people out there. And so, if we, you know, can find the things that feel right, there's gonna be other people there too. And really, it's funny because our strategy kind of previous to this year was, let's wait around until there's a really big idea that's good, unique, maybe doesn't exist, and we can make a really big dent.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But this year we're gonna try a little bit different approach and make smaller things and more of them, and just see what happens there. And kinda more rely on just kind of a routine of products. And you know, of course if there's a big thing that comes in, we're gonna do it, but filling the gap with smaller things that might not have to be a huge hit, right? And so we'll see, we'll see how that goes. It might turn up to be just like there's so much noise and there's so much crap going on that we don't get those really good big ideas, but I think we're we are just kinda tired of saying no to so many ideas.
Speaker 2:Not because they're good products, but because like someone's already doing it or whatever. So we'll see. It's kind of an experiment for us, but we'll see.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Yeah, as you were talking, there's actually a couple things I wanna kinda touch on here. The one thing I think about, there's two different kinds of movie makers. There's, like now I gotta think of the the folks. Like, there's Peter Jackson who puts out, like, one big thing, and, you know, they have to be really huge.
Speaker 1:And then there's how come I can't think of his name? The guy that makes a movie every twelve months in New York.
Speaker 3:Woody
Speaker 1:Allen? Woody Allen. Woody Allen just Oh. Woody Allen just makes films as a career. Every twelve months, he's gonna come out with another one.
Speaker 1:And some are do better than others, but they're basic and they're they follow kinda the same thing. But he's Yeah. It's like he's got this routine with making things. You know, he just knows he's gonna go to work every day and make this year's film. So that it's kind of, you know, and now, now I can't say it.
Speaker 1:It's kind of similar parallels what you're talking about, that you guys are thinking about trying to just go to work every day and make smaller things and release those.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, I think it was really a one, I mean, us it was really, and we've said this a couple of times recently, it's just really a one, two punch between something we spent seven months on Obi failing. And then right after that we released this little wooden stand for the new Apple TV remote.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Simplest product, it took us not even like two weeks of design. It was very simple, very small supply chain. We made it in house actually. So it was very little, but it did really well. It got a ton of press.
Speaker 2:We've sold a lot of them. It, you know, it's, and so that for us was like, okay, like, you know, that showed us that maybe there's something different that we can do, right? Yeah. In a real clear way.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Now the other thing that kinda inspired me after I hung out with you guys for the first time was I started my career in physical manufacturing, building skateboards and snowboards. And that chain that supply chain, there was very few people doing it on a small scale. Like you couldn't be just a guy in the street and say, I wanna start a snowboard company. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then I met you guys, and you're basically two guys in Texas that are building physical things, and this is, it kinda like opened my mind to that whole world that this is now possible for very, very small companies or even individuals to make physical things. Yeah. Maybe talk to me a bit about that, like what, especially you guys have done software too, but you're clearly passionate about physical stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's just a kind of colliding of all these different like services and opportunities that didn't exist, you know, five or ten years ago. So if you look at kind of the line, the path of what it takes to make a physical product like, you know, the funding aspect. We have Kickstarter now, or things similar to that. And then the so the prototyping is now new with you know, three d printers and affordable CNC things, or even just like mailing away to get prototypes you know, made for you. That's fairly new.
Speaker 3:And then the manufacturing processes have more or less been around for a while, but there's new ways of finding them and and and reaching out to them and communicating with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then you know, the selling of the product, know we have Shopify and all these internet online things and you can send it to Amazon. And then you know, the fulfillment aspect, there's now services for that too. So I feel like all this stuff is like within the last ten years, maybe even five years, didn't exist. Yeah. And so it's like kinda just like the perfect timing of all these things coming together to where yeah, it's like me and Tom are the only two employees, and we've stayed that way from the beginning.
Speaker 3:It's because we kinda outsource all these aspects of the, you know, Jane.
Speaker 1:And that that's exciting, but it must also be, like, especially now, it was probably really fun at the beginning, but now, there's a lot of people getting into this, like a lot of people kind of trying to do your thing. Do you know do you notice more collisions now? Is it is it like you talk to a manufacturer in China and they're like, oh, I'm sick and tired talking to you Kickstarter guys or like, you noticed anything like that yet?
Speaker 2:Definitely. Let me think of it. Yeah. I mean some, the funny thing is it's mostly been good, where it used to be when I called a, like cold call the manufacturer, they were just confused, and they're like, wait, where are you getting this money? And I would say like Kickstarter and they're like, what?
Speaker 2:You know? Yeah. And so, in some ways it's been easier because it's like, they understand, you know, there's like more likely that they have like heard of something like that. But on the other hand, there's just way more noise now, right? Where it used to be, it was like a news story that we were making a stylist, and it was like on kickstarter, but now that's like not the case at all,
Speaker 1:right? Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, you know, there's definitely a give and take there, but definitely we're all for more people coming in and more services being developed. Because all of our pain points as a company, most of them, we feel like they could be solved with a service, and so when more and more people come, there's gonna be more of those services built up. Because we, we wanna stay a two person shop. We wanna stay really small.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the things that are gonna make us hire employees is like customer service or shipping stuff or weird things like that, and we just want that to be outsourced as much as we can. So we're all for this kind of field growing, for sure.
Speaker 1:That's an interesting point, because then if there's more people like you, then there's more things like what's the Cards Against Humanity warehousing? The black
Speaker 3:black box. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Black box. So now there's a market opportunity for them to say, we want we will help serve you guys, And that takes a huge amount of work off your shoulders and less risk too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. And for us it's just about overhead, right? So the reason, one of the big reasons why we like to stay small is A, it's really just simple. The business is very simple. We can make decisions super fast because we're two people.
Speaker 2:But, and there's no overhead. Like, we both like working from our home office, so we can make, take risks with maybe a product that's really small and niche because we don't have to sell 30,000 of them for it to be worth it for us to develop, right? So we love that freedom of being able to kind of move around and try different stuff. And so one of our fears with kind of growing in a employee type of way is there's gotta be more constraints on needing revenue, and so we just have to make different decisions possibly, right, about what we do, or take less risks. So that's kinda where the inflection point is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, get it. Because now, because if you, because right now, as a two person company, can keep making things without worrying that, like, this has gotta cover Janice's paycheck. I just invented Janice. I I'm not saying Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We have no Janice. Yeah. No. That is exactly right.
Speaker 2:We just we, you know, we that fear is not there. So it's it's it's good.
Speaker 1:And a guy at the coworking office found these for me and I ordered two right away. And what it is, is it's a three d printed kind of clasp Oh. That sticks like, it it has adhesive on the bottom, and I I didn't even cut the ties. It I just it it just wraps up, and then it keeps your frayed cord from
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Fraying more. And this is I love this idea that this guy's just three d printing these and shipping them out. And you guys have started doing this now too with the stand. And did you do another one that was
Speaker 3:Yeah. There's I mean, something pretty similar to that. That was like a little clip for the Apple Watch charger Mhmm. Where it's basically, if you wanted to more securely fasten the clip, because it's only a magnetic connection, so, and it's a pretty weak magnetic connection. So if you wanted to connect it, if you're for example like throwing it in your bag and charging your watch with an external battery pack or something, it's just a three d printed piece of plastic that allows it to kind of clip on to the watch in a more secure way than just the magnet.
Speaker 1:So is that the future for you guys? Are you gonna try to do more stuff in house? I mean Possibly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, maybe, but like, I mean that that was just like a fun little thing. It's like, hey, this is a blog post. That's like about as seriously as we took it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I think the main reason for that is there's still a huge gulf in the materiality of three d printed stuff. So, you know, it's rare that you can develop a product that the three d printing is like the right process for it, but that's really gonna change really quick. And so, you know, like shapeways.com is a website where that's all it is. It's like a basically e commerce store where designers put up their designs, and then someone comes and buys it, and all, just shapeways just like prints it, sends it to them, and then gives a cut to the designer.
Speaker 2:And so Yeah. Soon as the materials get a little bit better for three d printing, and the process gets a little bit cheaper, it's gonna be huge, huge, huge like shift in the way that, especially little simple objects are made, because you'll just have a three d printer at home, and you'll just like, buy it, or it will be free probably a lot of the time. Yeah. Just the design, and it'll just come in and you just buy that and it's no problem. And so, that's coming, and you know, I think about that sometimes, what's that gonna mean?
Speaker 2:But I think there's still always gonna be a huge difference between just like materiality and things. But definitely, but like for up and coming young designers, like if I was in like starting high school right now, and I wanted to be a product designer.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like in ten years, this is gonna be the reality of like what I'm talking about. And it's gonna be, I would just be starting to sell stuff, print stuff, like, now. Know? I mean, it's a huge change.
Speaker 1:And I wonder if there will be more, like, centralized I mean, right now everything is in China, and they've got the advantage of that whole supply chain thing there. But if there is, you know, if there's a place where does everyone ship out of, like, whatever it is, Illinois or I don't know where people ship centrally.
Speaker 2:Set the code a lot of the times.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, like, if they you know, if there's, like, a place there that's that has just, like, CNC machines on tap, And you you can order stuff and have it, like, just go through their process. They build it and ship it from there, like Shapeways, I guess. But the designer is, you know, in Canada. That stuff gets me really excited because for me, the the all the pain with physical stuff is the is actually the warehousing of it and the shipping of it.
Speaker 1:So if you could have it, like, in built on demand and shipped from somewhere, that seems amazing. One thing I think I mean, we just touched on this a little bit is, like, what would you recommend to somebody who's getting started?
Speaker 3:You can read our book, I guess, to to start.
Speaker 1:What what's the book called?
Speaker 3:It's called It Will Be Exhilarating.
Speaker 1:And And you take them through the process of kick starting, stuff like that?
Speaker 3:More or less, yeah. It's basically, we wrote it, I don't know, two or three years ago when we had like two or three products in the marketplace. And it was basically just like, you know, showing our work, showing what we did to to do what we did. So, you know, there's some stuff about Kickstarter and then in there, there's stuff about all the kind of prototyping and design and manufacturing of physical goods and shipping them and and all that. And then there's like a little bit of marketing type stuff in there.
Speaker 3:So I mean, a little it's like slightly outdated in terms of just like where we're at as a company, but I think most of it is still relevant. And that would be, that's kind of why we wrote it, is for exactly what you're describing as someone who's like wanting to be inspired or get started doing these type of things.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Is there like one, is there a scope of project or a kind of project that you think is good for people to start with?
Speaker 2:You know, what I always do, whenever I talk to people who are starting out, one thing that I really, I think people should try is maybe not the like handmade Etsy thing, where you're doing everything yourself, it's very manual, you're doing everything yourself because you're not really learning all the stuff that will take you to like this being a business. Because this whole world of like working with the manufacturer to have parts made, or like outsourcing, or like warehousing, all those things are the actual problems. And so I think it's actually not that hard to dip your toe into that in a simple way, but I think it's really important to do that because then it doesn't become this big scary monster. Because really, it's not hard, it just seems scary. And people always ask me like, how do you guys find like how to do sewing?
Speaker 2:This is how it works. I on Google for like injection molding plastic. And I call up the company and I'm like, Hey, we're thinking about doing this. Like, how does it work? What are the constraints?
Speaker 2:And they'll just like tell you a lot of the time. So it's not that big scary thing, but I think it's really important to start interfacing with manufacturing or like the external like machine of kind of industry sum just so it doesn't become, like, a big scary thing.
Speaker 1:And when you call China
Speaker 2:We don't call China. Don't I mean, so that's the thing. We don't and and and for a lot of our history, we had nothing made in China. Okay. Made in The US.
Speaker 1:So you're you're just calling US manufacturers.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Yeah. And and and and the real reason we're doing that is because we need that knowledge. Right? So when we started up the glyph, we our manufacturing was in South Dakota.
Speaker 2:They understood where we were coming from and the engineer really helped us out, like understand the process. And so that's really great. People will do that. And so that's why it's, you know, that's what's really nice about kind of local or like, you know, domestic manufacturing is you can like talk to the people really easily. And so that's a huge advantage if you're starting out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it costs more, but it's totally worth it.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's interesting. Because I just assumed you were making things overseas, but you haven't you haven't made as much overseas.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Only a couple things. Just only last year and a half probably. And it's a pain. It's a total pain still.
Speaker 2:It's a real pain.
Speaker 1:Even with your even though you understand some of the manufacturing process, like, is it if you you call a factory in China and, when you've done that, is it is there someone that speaks English there? Like, how does it work?
Speaker 2:It's email almost always or really Skype. Yeah. Almost always everything's done via Skype. We, for a reason we've been working with kind of a middleman, like a company in China. He's actually a Canadian guy.
Speaker 2:Okay. And he has a company in China, we talk to him and then he finds the factories and works with them. And so that can work out really well. But in some of the time we've worked directly with a manufacturer in China, it's, you know, it's hard. The communication is super hard, and the expectations of quality and design are completely different just culturally, and so the communication is just really rough.
Speaker 2:And so that is, I would not recommend that at all for anyone starting out. Definitely the localer the better, because you could learn from the people making your thing, because they're the people who know the most about what you're doing.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's interesting. That's that's probably a good place to end it. Let's, let's peep your peep your stuff. Let's pimp your stuff a little bit. What's, what's Studio Neat working on next, and where can people find out about it?
Speaker 3:Well, we're working on a couple things we're actually really excited about that we won't reveal just yet, but they are we're hoping to, you know, unveil Men's underwear. Them.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Men's underwear. Yeah,
Speaker 3:these. Within the next couple months, so that's, we're excited about that. So yeah, I mean, studioneet.com, and and at studioneet on Twitter is a good place to follow us. And then we also have a Gazette, which is just a weekly newsletter. If you go to, I think it's just studioneat.com/gazette should work.
Speaker 3:Yes. And you can sign up for that. And that, you know, it's really simple. Every Friday we just send a super short email, just a couple things Tom and I are kind of interested in that week, and then a very brief update of kinda what we're working on. So if you wanna follow us in a really kind of simple but direct way, that's that's a good thing to look at too.
Speaker 1:Sweet. I've also been really liking your Vimeo channel. Yeah. If you search Studio Neat on Vimeo, there's like some cool stuff there. I just like watching some stuff get made.
Speaker 1:And even if it's like, you know, you've got some pretty slick videos on there, but you also have some real raw, just like gritty, like, here's how we did it. And Mhmm. Yeah. I think that's good too. Beauty.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, thanks guys. Thanks for your time. We'll talk to guys soon. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You. Yeah. Thanks, man. See you.
Speaker 1:Alright. That's it. Thanks again to Tom and Dan for doing the show, studioneat.com. Please, if you are a product person looking to launch a new product and just launching scares the hell out of you, you don't wanna launch to crickets, go and check out marketing for product people, justinjackson.ca/marketingforproduct people. Also, I forgot to tell you guys, I have a brand new show called Mega Maker.
Speaker 1:It's ten minutes long, two episodes a week, and it's getting to the top of the iTunes charts right now. I would love for you to go and check it out, megamaker.co. And if you could leave a review and help me get into the top of new and noteworthy, that would even be better. Megamaker.co/review. Thank you for all you longtime listeners.
Speaker 1:I really appreciate you, just enjoying the shows and telling people about them. Alright. I will talk to you soon. If you ever got any questions, get me on Twitter, the letter m, the letter I, Justin. That's m I Justin.