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Ryan Hart is a product management expert and author. With a background in insurance sales, Ryan pivoted to entrepreneurship, creating a profitable digital product business. His book, “How I Sold a Million Stars,” offers insights into his innovative marketing strategies and business acumen.
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Guest’s Links:
Connect with 2X eCommerce:
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- (00:00) - How Ryan Sold a Million Stars
- (04:10) - Introduction to Digital Products
- (04:24) - From Insurance to E-commerce
- (05:47) - Building the First Digital Product
- (07:55) - The Star Dedication Concept
- (10:05) - Developing the Star Dedication Platform
- (13:58) - Launching with Groupon and Other Platforms
- (20:45) - Collecting Customer Feedback
- (21:54) - Expanding Product Offerings
- (23:11) - Business Growth and Exit Strategy
- (25:23) - Revenue and Side Business Insights
- (26:04) - Full-Time Job and Side Hustle
- (26:53) - Decision to Sell the Business
- (31:09) - Life After Selling the Business
- (32:35) - Current Ventures and Advice
- (37:17) - Final Thoughts and Takeaways
Creators & Guests
What is 2X eCommerce Podcast?
Hosted by Kunle Campbell, who is an operator of a portfolio of consumer brands, 2X eCommerce is a weekly podcast for ecommerce operators by ecommerce operators. We interview remarkable ecommerce founders and leading enablers of ecommerce growth, with every episode promising to give you at least one growth hypothesis or idea you can test.
Our focus is growing your ecommerce revenues from a cross-functional perspective, be it marketing, your tech stack, operations, finance, or customer experience. We believe that by bringing together insights from a variety of experts, we can help you double the throughput of key ecommerce functions.
2X your eCommerce growth with insights from Kunle and handpicked experts.
Follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn and Instagram: @2XeCommerce
Ryan Hart: I heard a radio ad I
was driving around and said name a
star and we'll mail you something.
You got to plan ahead and it
costs money to ship and produce.
And it took me a while.
I took that away and about a
week later, I was thinking.
I could do this in a digital way, right?
No cost of goods.
I can deliver it digitally, text
and email and mobile responsive
link and a free color certificate
if they want to print it out.
but the one thing that bothered me
was like, nobody can name a star.
Mhm.
Ryan Hart: To create a proof of concept.
So I googled database of star GPS
coordinates, and that's where I learned
it's called ascension and declination.
instead of latitude and longitude.
there's a database.
called the Tycho2 database.
Mhm.
Ryan Hart: So my offering was three
digital star dedications for 19.
So I'd get about 850.
Pay oscar and get about 850.
so we sold tens of thousands of
stars and in that period of time
Mhm.
Kunle Campbell: So in this episode
of the 2X eCommerce podcast, I want
to spark your imagination about
the enormous, yet often neglected
space of selling digital products.
We have an incredible story of an
insurance broker who turned a unique
digital concept into a passive high-margin
six figure business selling stars.
Yes.
You heard that writes.
He sold stars online.
This is the 2x e commerce
podcast hosted by Kunle Campbell.
Kunle Campbell: So welcome
to the 2X eCommerce podcast.
In today's episode, we're exploring
the enormous potential of selling.
Digital products.
Our guest Ryan Hart was an insurance
broker who transformed a unique digital
concept into passive high margin, six
figure business by selling stars online.
Yes.
You heard that right.
Ryan took a concept.
He saw in the real world, one that
was in efficiently sold on radio.
At the time he digitized it, marketed it
to brilliantly and boosted the virality
of an already highly giftable idea.
I'm sharing the story to spark your
creativity and show you the potential
of integrating digital products
with your physical product sales.
As you listen to this interview,
pay close attention to Ryan's
unique way of thinking creativity.
Like an artist while finding
ways to automate processes.
As an e-commerce operator, you should
always be thinking about how to
increase your contribution margin.
This is why you should be open to
exploring complimentary digital offerings.
This kind of fluidity folks is very key.
Think about how Jeff Bezos pivots at
Amazon in the early two thousands.
He was inspired by Steve
jobs, who at the time was
revolutionizing music with an iPod.
And what Bezos did is he actually
had a conversation with Steve
jobs at the time, and he saw what
was about to happen to music.
And he then had to pivot and creates.
The Kindle, which was the hardware you.
You know, device that was going
to serve be the distribution
channel of an entirely.
Huge digitized offering,
which was e-books.
So he obviously couldn't compete.
Against apple on music.
And thought, okay, we've been selling
digital books for, for this longer time.
Now's the time to change consumer behavior
and you know, the way people consumed
and he just puts his head down and.
They created the Kendall
that you know, today.
So.
As operators, you just can't afford
to think only physical products.
You need to be innovative, you need
to be adaptive and you always need
to look on how to automate and scale.
Your ideas.
Right.
So before we dive in, though, make
sure to follow the 2X eCommerce
on your preferred platform.
Your support always helps bring
us amazing guests and stories.
Listen to the end.
There's something special after that.
Ryan, welcome to the 2xEcommerce
Ryan Hart: Thank
Kunle Campbell: You're the author
of the book, How I Sold a Million
Stars, and it was intriguing to me.
Before we jump into how you sold,
actually sold stars, do you want
to give a bit of a backstory to
Ryan Hart: Yeah.
I, when I was 18, my senior project
was to go, job shadow people.
And I ended up, also getting my
insurance license at the same time.
So I jumped into selling health
insurance, which isn't that exciting.
but it was valuable sales
background and marketing background.
And I ended up paying my way
through undergrad and I got
an entrepreneurship degree.
And then I went directly
into and got an MBA.
and so when I graduated.
Like I did not want to be an insurance
salesman for the rest of my life.
you know, there was people in like
their 50s going to Hawaii four times a
year, a bunch of employees, big house
with a pool, you know, multi multi so
it's a good career, but I was like,
man, I want to go build software.
I want to go do e commerce.
I want to go create things online and
Try to unlock the power of what, seven
billion people in the world and build
something that I could take to market
and provided I have the right go to
market plan with the right product
offering, I could just print money
online and it was just very exciting.
The concept to me was more of like
an artist, you know, I can go create
something and build and then go
get the feedback loop of sales.
And just without having to be
involved and be on the phone.
I was making six figures with
insurance at 23, 24 years old,
but it was not the future for me.
Kunle Campbell: So how does an insurance
broker take the essential steps
to getting started in the world of
digital marketing and selling online?
Ryan Hart: So, some of the early
things I did was I created a website
where you go get your own quote, right?
And then contact us to
learn more and purchase.
it was back in the days
of like ehealthinsurance.
com.
So I created one locally for my state.
And so I got a little bit of software
background there and it was starting
to get hooked on the power of software.
I had a buddy from high school
who was a year older that
was a full stack developer.
after talking to him, I realized the
potential of what I could do as far as
call it a web app, or a e commerce site.
The power of those platforms to be
able to Build a little bit on top
of and, be able to appear the right
product, then go take it to market.
Kunle Campbell: Okay, so you started.
Out selling insurance online.
And then How did that business grow?
Ryan Hart: there's all these
people selling property and
casualty insurance, selling life
insurance and a lot of people.
In my field of health insurance would also
go dabble in life insurance, et cetera.
And what I realized was people would
not refer you business if you offered
something that was competitive because
then they might not get their deal.
So I just, I went to the local community
and said, I'm only going to do health
insurance and I'm really good at it.
I know everything about it.
Just refer business to me.
Here's my website.
And gave them, basically the most I could
kick back to them was like a 25 gift card.
But every month I'd send them these gift
cards really if whether they referred to
one or not just to get them top of mind.
And so I just built a really
good referral network.
I had my pitch down I could sell
someone insurance in under five
minutes asking 10 questions Qualifying
them recommending a plan and my
brother actually beat me one day.
It was a single guy So he
was able to do it quicker.
he got it down to four minutes and
so it's just trying to Take, sales
and marketing and a go to market
strategy, which was built a referral
network and then go sell policies.
Kunle Campbell: So how do you transition
from selling insurance to selling stars?
Ryan Hart: So I just knew that I didn't
want to be the, it just seemed boring to
me to wake up every day, sell insurance.
Like there's not a lot new and
there's not a lot to create.
It's just building a stronger
muscle in the business.
and I'd actually lined up a deal with,
so it was a family business at that time.
So my parents founded it
like 15 years earlier.
I lined up a deal with KeyBank,
I said, hey, I'll run radio ads
saying, every KeyBank you can
go buy health insurance from.
Personal or business and I'll train
your people and I'll give them the bonus
that I get from the insurance company to
pay them and people will open up health
savings accounts and you'll get foot
traffic into key bank, which is what they
really care about is driving foot traffic.
They love the idea.
So I went back to my parents
and said, I just landed like the
business biz dev deal ever to refer
business into our organization.
I was expecting them to be
excited, but they're like, yeah,
we don't want to work any harder.
We don't want a bigger business.
So they said.
Go create your own.
We'll support you.
Go create Reinhart Insurance.
And that's when I really had to
ask myself the question of, did
I want to stay in insurance?
And I said, I don't
really want to do this.
I want to go build software.
You know, B2B, B2C, e commerce
or SaaS, something in that realm.
I had some criteria of I
wanted, like, no cost of goods.
So ideally, it was a digital product.
I wanted to have, unlimited inventory.
so I could literally sell infinite
amounts, provided there was a
market there and I could reach them.
And then I wanted to build a really
good team of, part time contractors
that could, we could all collaborate
and fill these specific roles.
I really didn't want any full time
employees and I just wanted to hire
specialists for niche specific work
and then set the business on autopilot.
Eventually, I heard a radio
ad I was driving around and
they said hey name a star
By the way, no one can name a
star and so They said, name a
star and we'll mail you something.
You got to plan ahead and it
costs money to ship and produce.
And it took me a while.
I took that away and about a
week later, I was thinking.
I could do this in a digital way, right?
No cost of goods.
I can deliver it digitally, text
and email and mobile responsive
link and a free color certificate
if they want to print it out.
but the one thing that bothered me
was like, nobody can name a star.
They trick people.
They say, it's put in a book
and trademarked and put in
the library of Congress.
And those are all fancy words for fluff.
They're trying to create credibility.
So I was determined to
have truth in advertising.
So I only ever marketed the
business as dedicate a star
because that's all you can do.
You can say I want to
dedicate that star to you.
So the origin of the concept came from.
and then it was a question
of how do you build it?
Kunle Campbell: Interesting.
So it was a radio show with
questions Were they giving if you
could name a star which was near
impossible They'll send you a gift
Ryan Hart: Yeah, it's like Hey,
your grandson was born, right?
Oh get a name a star after him and you
go online you pay like 160 And they give
you a framed certificate And they'll
ship it in the mail to you and you hang
it then you're sort of like obligated to
hang this Sentimental thing on the wall.
Speaker 5: ah
Ryan Hart: Can't throw it away,
you know, it was a nice gift.
And so, actually at one point I
saw one of these at a garage sale.
Like, it was thoughtful in the moment.
But, there's ways to improve on this.
Kunle Campbell: Okay.
And what were your first steps to change
this idea to an actual product, you
know, to an actual offering or service.
Ryan Hart: so I had to
create a proof of concept.
So I just googled database of star GPS
coordinates, and that's where I learned
it's called ascension and declination.
instead of latitude and longitude.
there's a database.
called the Tycho2 database.
at that point it was a
million and 56, 000 stars.
Now they've added to it.
So it's over two and a half million now,
I thought, How do I plot this on a map?
we've all used Google Maps.
So I was Googling, how do I find the sky?
And I realized somebody
created Google Sky, google.
com slash sky.
It's still live.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Ryan Hart: Google had a development,
project where people could work on
personal projects, whatever they
wanted to work on every Friday.
And so there's some guy out there
that went and created this You can
basically just search coordinates
and it will show you the stars.
You can zoom in and out, you can
pan left and right, up and down.
It's just like Google maps.
And so I thought, okay,
that's interesting.
And then lastly, I found a, it was open
street maps was the, open source software
that I wanted to use for the interface.
And I called Scott up, Scott
Dahl was a full stack developer.
And we met at a Anthem coffee
shop and said, Scott, I want
to do a proof of concept.
Can you take open street map?
Plug in the URL of the SkyTiles, the
background on the site, and plug in
the database to query, you know, up to
like 20 stars that fit within this, you
know, wherever the map was oriented and
just plot them with a pin on the map.
And if we can reach that level, we
know we will have inventory and we
can build a web app around it and an
e commerce platform and go to market.
And so it took us like we met
up two days in a row and we
ended up hitting that milestone.
I realized if I can just find a way to
sell this product, I can deliver on it.
I can build this, everything
that I wanted and to end from a.
e commerce product standpoint.
Kunle Campbell: I think it's really
important to get the right partner
that complements your skill sets
There will be overlaps, but you want
to minimize those overlaps which
is quite interesting in this story.
So how did you come up with an mvp?
and What did it look like?
Ryan Hart: So in order to take
this to market, I had to decide
how I was going to go to market.
I could do SEO.
I could do pay per click.
I could do email marketing,
you know, all sorts of things.
I could partner with, like, build a bear
and have a star sold with every bear.
Like, I could put a star voucher
with every telescope that was
sold by that telescope companies.
I could put it in gift cards and
I could put, you know, all these
different things and I had to decide
on what was I going to bet on.
And so what I was imagining was,
is that I would go to Groupon.
I would just submit a form, call
them, whatever, have a product
ready and have them say, yeah, Ryan,
we'll sell millions of them for you.
And so that was what I was betting
on for my go to market, which
is just basically channel sales.
Groupon sells a voucher code.
People come to your site, they
see the retail price, but they
put their voucher code in.
Maybe it's good for one, two or three
times before it is no longer good.
And then it discounts it
to zero and they check out.
that's the model of working with Groupon
and typically whatever you sell for,
they give you 50 percent of the revenue.
so I thought that's it.
I'm going to build my business
around that being my initial
go to market sales channel.
Build something really,
really small to then go test.
Because what I had to do is I
had to have a logo, went to logo
tournament and spent 275 to get a
logo needed a landing page homepage
to communicate the product offering.
So I went to 99 designs and spent
like 300 to get a, Fully mobile
responsive designed web page that
fit my brand and implemented it.
and then I had to build
the checkout process.
so I adopted Shopify before Shopify
was cool and was one of their
first customers, and then built
a coupon generation code, system.
So I could actually go, Hey,
here's some codes for Groupon.
They expire at this date and
they're good for this many times.
So it fit my product offering with them.
And it cost them about 20, 000.
To build all of this and it
took, about three months.
So I owned the business and had all
of the upside and then it was, all
right, let's go talk to Groupon.
Kunle Campbell: What was
the uptake from groupon?
Ryan Hart: when you submit a form
and they say, thank you, someone will
contact you and then they never do.
So every day I'd submit the form.
No one would contact me.
I'd submit the form.
No one would contact me.
So I realized there was all
of these other smaller sites.
Zulily, Deal Chicken, KSL, etc.
at that point Living Social
was actually pretty big.
They weren't the number one,
but they were number two.
so I started submitting forms with
those and they didn't get back to me.
And I'm like, I made a big bet here
and I'm not sure, what do I do next?
Kunle Campbell: what did you do next?
Ryan Hart: So I ended up, I forget
exactly how I found this guy, but
his name was Oscar Gonzalez of
Centerlink Media out of Florida.
And he specialized in brokering
physical or digital goods with
these deal of the day websites.
and thank goodness he reached back out to
me because that's what was sort of the,
Momentum that got the avalanche rolling.
And so he said, look, let's get you
on these small sites and then these
medium sites, and then these big
sites, and then eventually we'll get
you into living social and Groupon.
But what we need to prove is
that you have a good conversion
rate on the landing page.
So X percent, basically for every
person who sees the offer, you
generate X amount of revenue.
And so we just went through that
process and it took about a year.
to eventually, get the credibility
to where Groupon could not ignore us.
Kunle Campbell: Wow.
One year, but so what, what was his cot in
the deal, if Groupon is taking 50 percent
and give me 50%, what does Oscar get?
Ryan Hart: so he took 10
percent of what I received.
So I got 90, he got 10 of that 50%.
and he was involved.
what I told him was, hey, I'll let
you have all these other smaller
sites that when we get to Groupon
and Living Social, my plan is
just to work directly with them.
And so he said, deal.
Let's do it.
And so we actually had some significant
volume with the smaller site.
So it was definitely worth his time.
And then that was my launching
pad into working directly with
Groupon and Living Social.
Kunle Campbell: Okay, and then
what was the experience like?
What did it feel like?
Getting, customers from the
smaller sites initially.
what was the uptake then?
And how much revenue did you make
before you went for the big groupon.
Ryan Hart: So my deal, my offering was
three digital star dedications for 19.
So I'd get about 850.
Pay oscar and get about 850.
so we sold tens of thousands of stars and
in that period of time It was sort of set
on autopilot I mean there was points in
the business where the only thing I did
was I went into quickbooks and reconciled
my income and expenses Because everything
was auto deposited into my bank account.
the whole business was set to autopilot.
if I ever had any ideas to grow the
business, I could just invest in those,
but it didn't cost anything from my
time or energy to run the business.
Kunle Campbell: So just to be clear There
was no physical inventory involved.
This was literally a dedication
to a star and it was three stars
And you dedicate it to a loved one
and then where's the recognition?
Was it on your website?
They could sort of reference
the acknowledgement.
Ryan Hart: are shopping on the site,
you could see existing star dedications.
when you were checking out, you could
say, okay, I'm going to pick this star.
I'm going to put this, this name on it.
Name it.
You could embed a YouTube video,
upload a photo, and type a message.
You could even password protect
the message if you really
felt like you wanted to.
And then, check out.
And so you would put in the
recipient's email and or phone number
and the scheduled date and time you
wanted to have that sent off at.
And it would actually
deliver it digitally.
to the recipient.
So like your wife could
get a text at dinner and be
like, Oh yeah, click on that.
Honey.
Hey, dedicate a star to you.
And here's our favorite music
video of used to dance too.
And here's a poem I wrote for you.
And here's the first date photo.
so my mission was to meaningfully
affirm significant relationships
and make a lot of money.
That was the mission.
Kunle Campbell: interesting
Ryan Hart: so from a product
standpoint, like, it was a
completely digital delivery.
I had a support email and, I would follow
people up 1 week after purchase and say,
hey, do you have any feedback for us?
What were your thoughts?
Do you want to share your story?
I was trying to collect
testimonials to put on the homepage.
And so I got a lot of, product
feedback from my customers.
About what they thought
about the product offering.
And so there was frequent questions.
so there's two pieces to this.
I wrote 21 canned responses to like, how
do I see my star in the sky, et cetera,
and outsource that, customer support
to where it was just send the standard
replies and you're done And secondly, I
learned a lot from all of these questions.
And so they'd be like, Okay,
how do I see my star in the sky?
So I eventually developed an iPhone
app that you put your six digit or six
or seven digit star number in and it
would tell you where to point your star.
And then other people would say,
oh, but my star is below my feet,
like I'm in Northern Hemisphere.
And I chose, I scrolled so far that I
chose one of the Southern Hemisphere.
So then I said, okay, put in a
search bar, address bar, and we'll
center the sky above your house.
Okay.
And you sort of stay around there to
make sure you can, see it at that, like
a 45 degree angle of wherever you are.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Ryan Hart: And then other people would
say, well, I don't have an iPhone.
Okay.
Well, so we designed and printed
a planisphere that you could
actually take your coordinates.
And if you ordered it from us, we
put a little red dot sticker where
your star was and we ship it to you.
So slowly I got into some
physical products, but it was
acceptable to me because I'd
partnered with the drop shipper.
In order fulfillment.
So I just still didn't
have to touch anything.
and then the last item was people would
say, thank you for a free color pdf
certificate, but I don't have a printer
or I have a black and white laser printer.
Can you print this and ship it to me?
that ended up being a very
profitable thing to enter into.
I use the same drop shipper and
I marked everything up 10 profit.
So whether they ordered just the
certificate, they got it in like a
diploma cover where they got it framed.
I sort of just made the same, profit
there and, you know, incorporate
Shopify once again into the site
and, created it as an upsell motion,
I sent an email to all of my existing
customers and said, now we offer this
and it ended up being, really profitable.
Kunle Campbell: And then how long did
you, when did you start the business
and how long, because I'm aware
you exited the business recently.
What was the timestamp?
Because you said you're one
of Shopify's first customers.
So I'm thinking this is 2017 or 14.
Ryan Hart: so I came up with the idea in
2010, started building the site in 2011.
it was in 2012 when I started getting
these small deal sites and then
towards the end of 2012 is when
I got Groupon and LivingSocial.
And I operated the business
in 2013, 14 15 and 16.
So four years, just selling a ton of
volume on all of these deal sites.
And so I incorporated Shopify
about 2012, late 2012.
And so very close to when
their Shopify origins were.
I love Shopify.
Shopify is like, you'd have to pay
me a lot of money to go to market
on a platform other than Shopify.
when I sold the business in 2017,
Kunle Campbell: Okay.
what are your takeaways now just
on reflection on the execution
from 2011 through to 17.
Ryan Hart: there were times when I
would, In that year, trying to get my
first customer, you know, to resell
for me that, I wouldn't do anything
in the business for, a week or two.
And I would get a little discouraged.
I made this investment.
I need to keep working on it.
So there's 2 things don't give
up on things that you believe in.
Right, because you can crack
the code and it will pay off.
It's just persistence and, you get
enough at bats, you're gonna get on base.
And then secondly, I believe I would
have been more successful if I had a
more diligent plan to just every single
day do something on the business.
Instead of, taking a week off at a
time out of discouragement, I think I
would have cracked the code much sooner
this is back when deal of the day.
Websites were hot.
Everybody was getting the emails.
They were opening them.
They're clicking them.
They were buying things and, I, I think I
could have sold 2 million stars if I had
really just been diligent and stuck with
it and doubled down faster than earlier.
Kunle Campbell: Yeah.
And the 19 was a good price
point for the digital product.
I would say between 2015 and 17,
what kind of revenues did you do?
Ryan Hart: Now keep in mind
I have like 160 a month in
expenses to do this business.
that included like my home internet.
the most I did during that time was about
just over 300, 000 in revenue per year.
I had a full time day
job during this time.
this was a, hobby side business
that was just, cranking out
cash flow in an automated way.
I actually didn't even tell any of my
coworkers what I was doing on the side.
I just kept it really like hush
hush and, you know, just showed up
to work and I was the guy selling
stars that no one knew about.
Kunle Campbell: what did
you do over that period?
Ryan Hart: So I was, In product
management, so 1st, I started in marketing
and then I moved into product and I
worked for a background screening company.
So I built an entire web app platform
that, integrated with over 200, 000.
HR softwares and, since then,
it's done over like 200 million
in transactional revenue.
And so my day job is product management.
I build web apps for B2B organizations
and got to work with a bunch of
really cool overseas, teams that
have now since relocated to Serbia.
I got to run product and engineering and,
Do what I love to do, which is build and
create and built a web app from scratch.
Kunle Campbell: Yeah, there
are lots of crossovers with
what you're doing at daytime.
So there's a lot of meaning with what
you're doing on both ends of the scale.
So why did you decide to sell?
You had a, literally a goose
that was laying, golden eggs.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Kunle Campbell: And the
margins were just incredible.
I mean, you were essentially
making 300 grand a year, you know,
which, you know, it's, it's great,
you know, as, as passive income.
Ryan Hart: So there's something called
capital gains, you know, long term
capital gains versus normal income.
And so I knew that if I sold the
business, I wouldn't be paying like
close to 50 percent income tax.
I could get it down to like 25%.
The value of the business
is the net present value.
And so, in the back of my mind, I was
thinking, hey, I could sell this, I
could get all this money up front and
pay way less taxes on it and have it now.
this was my first e
commerce sort of venture.
And I wanted to have, that feather
in my cap and say I exited.
And I had a successful story of building,
creating, marketing, tightening the
expenses and then selling the business
to sort of button up the experience.
but really what made me What kept me awake
at night was, my, call it channel risk.
The smaller deal sites were sort of going
out of business or getting gobbled up.
They'd sell their customer lists
and their domain and get acquired.
And Groupon finally bought Living Social
that Amazon had invested in, and my sales
were down 10 percent year over year.
the appetite to buy deals
and voucher codes was waning.
And I asked myself the question,
would I invest in Groupon?
And I was like, not a chance.
I mean, go look at Yahoo Stocks for
Groupon and go look back at like,
2015 to now or even 2013 to now.
it just, I foresaw it just
going down and down and down.
Their sales process was so efficient.
Every like 90 days I'd have to work with
another salesperson, sign a docu sign.
They'd have to type it all into,
Salesforce and their costs to administrate
these deals were just like way too high.
And if you really think about
it, all Groupon is doing is
they're not really helping.
These local businesses Groupon is
saying, Hey, Kunli, how valuable is
it to you to get a future customer?
You're going to make zero money
or maybe even lose money on the
first time you serve this customer.
It's not sustainable and what Groupon
did is they basically took all of this
marketing ad campaign dollars that they
generated because they keep half of the
voucher code that's already discounted
and that money just went to Chicago.
It doesn't benefit the local economy.
So they're basically like raping and
plundering these local businesses
and promising them future sales
with the customer lifetime value.
And I just didn't believe in that model.
It was too expensive for
Groupon to do business.
They took too much of the deal
and it really did not help these
local businesses in the long run.
So I thought I would sell
Groupon stock and just like,
I was no way I would hold it.
And so then that told me like, Maybe
I need to sell my business because
Groupon was almost all of my sales.
how do you sell a business?
Well, you tighten up the
expenses as much as you can.
You try to generate as much
revenue in a 12 month period.
You bring in a business broker.
I, went through that process
and, committed to sell it.
Kunle Campbell: And you sold it
Ryan Hart: yeah.
So, and what was great
is, I only had to pay.
long term capital gains and all
that income., I didn't have to pay
normal income, but normal state
and federal tax and medicare and
social security and all that.
so I hired, I forget the name
of the first company, but they
didn't bring a single buyer to
interview me in the first 90 days.
I said, I'm done.
So I went and I found Quiet Light.
I worked with, three different people
there, and it was the third buyer
interview that eventually decided,
they wanted to purchase the business.
I got a full price offer
You know, probably 90 days to close
and transition everything and they
wired the money to me and signed
over the, domain and website.
And that was it.
Kunle Campbell: good on you.
We're in 2024 now, it's
been a long time since 2017.
How has life changed from then to now?
And why are you telling this story now?
Ryan Hart: Great question.
I used to use the website as a portfolio
piece, you know, Hey, this is my story.
Go look at it.
Everyone I told about it was
like, I want to hire you, right?
Come work for me.
So it was a great sort of, Career
strategy to point people to it.
Since then the site has changed so
much that it's not really my creation
It's gone in a different direction.
They pivoted and they
have a different vision.
And so instead of pointing people to the
site I said well, let me tell my story.
So I just launched a book called
how I sold a million stars It's a 21
page comic book and you can read it
in under five minutes I let my buddy
at the gym read it and he read it
between bench press sets the other day.
He's like, wow, quick, quick read.
and so it's a number one top new release
on amazon and product management and
so it's been out about three weeks.
Kunle Campbell: We'll link
to it in the show notes.
I've read the book already She has a super
quick read it essentially helps you quite
succinctly Figure out your go to market
strategy And how to take an ideation to
something decent in the market I really
like that in a storytelling format,
So We're in 2024 now Would you suggest
selling digital products again?
And if yes, how would you
approach, how do you approach it?
Or has the time for digital product
selling sort of, passed and.
Ryan Hart: I think it's still there.
I think the Groupon channel sales
approach don't longer exist.
So you'd have to have a
different go to market strategy.
about six months after I sold
the business Groupon canceled
their digital only product.
And so I knew that was a
risk that that could go away.
And so a lot of the revenue that I
was worried about possibly going away,
it's competitors could come in, right?
Which I think there's like six competitors
online now that have copied me, could
compete, and digital products could get
dropped or a group on success could wane.
And so, thankfully I sort of, managed
those risks well, and so offloaded
the business before that happened.
I do have one.
Digital, product online today,
but used for a lead gen source.
if you've ever heard of g2.
com, they rank the best software
businesses in each category.
I created a site called rank one on g2.
com and I have a free e course
where it's 20 minutes of sped up
videos to basically give you my
strategies on how to rank number one.
And then a lot of people just.
Can't execute it on their own.
So that's where I come in.
People could hire me as a managed
service to run really good review
campaigns for them on G two.
And I've got a lot of great
success stories of people who
now basically own their category.
what most people don't know is that
There's a, subscription service that BCs
and private equity groups subscribe to a
G2 where they're able to see all of the
trending software companies and get an
idea of what companies are, on the rise.
So then they can form early relationships
with those software companies and
try to pre vet and, be at the seat
to help them to then be the investor
that funds their next software round.
Kunle Campbell: so you're
saying that there's a service
VCs use, for ranking in G2.
So they have a better chance of getting
further funding further down the line.
Ryan Hart: If you're an investor, are
you just going to scroll through G2
all day and manually check and see
how the rankings change and who's
getting more reviews and at what pace?
So they'll go pay G2 75, 000 a year and
just get a digest and say here are the
top hottest companies you want to go
form relationships with so when they
need money, they will take your money,
Kunle Campbell: It's very clever.
So they're following the data essentially.
And if you focus your momentum on that,
you start to get inbound, interest
from potential investors and VCs.
Ryan Hart: raising funds
is such a distraction.
Yeah.
It distracts the whole company.
And so if you take this approach,
it's almost like inbound fundraising.
I've got seven term sheets already.
I'm trying to decide who can
invest and what the value add is.
And here's the five terms that
really matter to us, you know?
And so it completely changes the
negotiations and, the terms and the
valuation you get at that point.
And so it puts you in a
way different position.
The last company I was at I ran marketing
and deployed my strategies there for their
g2 campaigns We had 30 investors call
in and our ceo was fantastic at fielding
all this interest And he was sort of
the bell at the ball and he was great at
Speaker 5: it.
Ryan Hart: And we got
fantastic terms for our series
Kunle Campbell: Super interesting.
And one of the categories of
listeners to this podcast, e
commerce SAS, SAS providers anyway.
So, you know, if, if you run an
e commerce SAS company or you're
part of an e commerce SAS company,
definitely reach out to Ryan.
I'm going to share his details
and, you know, in the show notes,
definitely, definitely have this
conversation, particularly in Jita.
So I remember attending
conferences and say.
A SAS, I remember when Klaviyo
was hosting the Klaviyo BOS.
After I attended the event, I
got a G2 invite, for like some
Starbucks coffee or something.
And then I kind of filled it out.
I was already a user of it and, you
know, it was a great way to acquire,
you know, lots of reviews at scale.
Cause the attendance at that
event was in the thousands.
So you can imagine, what
the uptake could have been.
Ryan, it's been fascinating.
Just understanding how
you literally sold stars.
but at the same time, it might take
away from this is people buy emotions.
people remember you the way you make them
feel and you really were able to Deliver.
Very emotive, digital experience,
which they were able to pass on,
to people to make them feel good.
The other takeaway I've had from this
conversation, essentially, it was a
low price point, the barrier to entry.
Was, you know, 20 bucks, but
that's four coffees, right?
And four or five coffees.
So it was to make my mom or my
partner just change their day to
give a smile, you know, and them,
so you're, you're selling smiles.
You're not sending stars in my opinion.
How can our physical products actually
make people smile, you know, give
them positive emotions, right?
Which will be a clincher for CLTV for, for
lifetime value, particularly if there's
a retention or element to your brand.
So I learned a lot.
want to thank you.
So for people who want to find
out more about you, I know you
said the original website isn't
going down the direction you want.
I'm going to link to your book.
the name of your book is
how I sold a million stars.
Are you active on any social media
channels or do you have a newsletter or,
a website people, can connect with you on.
Ryan Hart: it's just linked in.
Kunle Campbell: Okay.
I think we're connected on LinkedIn.
So I would also put a link in
the show notes to LinkedIn.
It's been an absolute pleasure having you.
And I certainly left this
conversation smarter and learnt,
a lot about emotive, selling.
thank you.
Ryan Hart: all right.
Thanks.
Kunle Campbell: cheers.
Mhm.
Kunle Campbell: Hey, so I wanted
to take this time real quick to
tell you about our newsletter.
I've just launched a newsletter and it
is an intersection of modern commerce.
Wellness and learning from
the minds of the greatest.
So think about it as a health.
And wellness.
Commerce.
And leadership podcast.
And the reason I have puts it together is
that's my journey at this point in time.
So I've decided to take a
health and wellness approach.
In life.
So health first is not just mantra.
It's the way I live.
And from a commerce perspective,
modern commerce is what I do.
I'm an old preacher.
With octillion and what we're hold
core e-commerce business, you know?
Columbus is very dear to me.
It's my very first job was
related to commerce and retail.
So commerce is really important.
And then leadership, I'm going through a
leadership journey right now as we speak.
There are many trials and tribulations.
There are many learnings.
In this journey.
So lending from the grades, which
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Now, if of interest to you, I
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You just click that link in
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We're really like for you to,
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Scarlett 18i8 USB-6: Thank you for
listening folks and have a terrific week.
Bye.
Mhm.