Kelly Ruigrok / GSES: Changing the world without an office

In this episode we listen to Kelly Ruigrock, founder of GSES. Kelly Ruigrok is the founder and CEO of the Global Sustainable Enterprise System, a platform that makes sustainability measurable and transparent for organisations around the world. Starting without a degree and overcoming personal and professional setbacks, she built her company from scratch, turning a vision of a single sustainability standard into a tool used by businesses, governments and major events to drive real impact. Her journey is about resilience, curiosity, and changing the world one metric at a time.

Creators and Guests

Host

Armijn Woudman

Armijn Woudman is a Creative Strategist and Communication Specialist driven by one core belief: with creativity, you can solve almost anything. After founding the branding agency Studio Buffalo in 2004, Armijn expanded his craft into UX design and previously led his own communication agency. Currently, he works as a Creative Facilitator and Concept Developer, and part-time as a Marketing Lead at Up!Rotterdam, where he combines strategy, storytelling, and design to create impactful communication. For Armijn, communication isn’t just a profession, it’s a passion. From building brands to hosting podcasts, he’s always searching for the real story beneath the surface and finding ways to make it tangible, human, and meaningful. Creating this podcast is just one of the many things he does with genuine love and curiosity.

Host

Jagoda Albin

Jagoda Albin is a Digital Marketing & Communications Specialist who believes stories are one of the most powerful forces in business. She co-founded a startup in year one of university, which later got backed by Europe’s top accelerator. That sparked a passion for building, but also for helping others grow. She went on to lead marketing at a student startup incubator, and eventually joined Up!Rotterdam, where she now works on strategy, connects founders with opportunities and makes sure their stories reach the right people. This podcast is everything she loves in one place: having real conversations with the people behind bold ideas while amplifying the stories of businesses that are shaping the world around us.

Guest

Kelly Ruigrok

Kelly Ruigrok is an Entrepreneur and Sustainability Innovator driven by one core belief: systems can be redesigned to create a fairer and more sustainable world. After a challenging start in life, she carved her own path into entrepreneurship, founding GSES in 2019. Today, she leads GSES as a platform that brings clarity and structure to the complex world of sustainability, translating fragmented standards into one universal, actionable language. Through her work, she enables organizations to measure, understand, and improve their real impact. For Kelly, sustainability isn’t just a field, it’s a mission. From questioning broken systems to building scalable solutions, she is constantly looking for ways to make change tangible, transparent, and accessible. Her journey proves that resilience, combined with vision, can transform not only a life, but entire systems.

What is FOUNDED.?

Founded. An in-depth podcast, where founders of businesses from different growth stages, talk honestly about failure, doubt and recovery.

Armijn: 00:00

You are listening to FOUNDED. An in-depth podcast where founders of businesses from different growth stages talk honestly about failure, doubt, and recovery. In this episode, we listen to Kelly Ruigrok, founder of GSES, global sustainable intrapar system. A platform that makes sustainability measurable and transparent for organizations around the world.

Jagoda: 00:23

Starting without a degree and overcoming personal and professional setbacks, she built her company from scratch, turning a vision of a single sustainability standard into a tool used by businesses, governments and major events to drive real impact. Her journey is about resilience, curiosity and changing the world one metric at a time.

Armijn: 00:46

Kelly, were you always a person who wanted to make the world a better place?

Kelly: 00:50

Yeah, that's a very good question. Actually, yes, but I didn't know how to do it. And I didn't understand the world because I didn't understand why we could not just be nice to each other and don't have war and that kind of stuff. So, yeah, but I didn't know how until, yeah, I started GSCS.

Armijn: 01:10

And what did you want to become when you were six?

Kelly: 01:14

A dancer, actually. And then I went to the dance academy in Rotterdam on Code Arts. Yeah. And after that I started working, So Can

Armijn: 01:25

you take us back to the moment when you started your business?

Kelly: 01:30

Yeah. So it was basically I did my middle school in Rotterdam on the dance academy. And then I started working due to life basically because, well, there was some stuff happening in my personal life. So then I stopped school and started working. I did a lot of different jobs, but I did not have a degree or whatever.

Kelly: 01:58

So it was hard to find good jobs in that capacity. So I thought, okay, I know now how to work in a call center and how to do tailor marketing. So let's create my own sales formula and start doing call center and tailor marketing services for other businesses.

Armijn: 02:19

So

Kelly: 02:20

that was basically what I did when I became pregnant, when I was 26. And after that I had a baby and I was like, yeah, now I don't have a reason to not wanting to change the world for the better. And my daughter is also a mixed person. She has a beautiful skin color, so I thought the world could be more equal, more normal and more inclusive basically. So yeah, I thought how are we going to change the world without any knowledge, power and money, because I didn't have that.

Kelly: 02:59

And then I was thinking on one strange night, yeah, the world is turning on law, legislation, and regulations, and that's all based on internationally accepted norms, values, and standards. So let's make a standard, put everything with The Better World underneath the standard, also make sure that we're not only measuring one thing, but the whole holistic scope. And then if we can make it happen to have companies and public organizations using that standard to measure themselves, but also measure their stakeholders like suppliers, then we can really change the world. So I said it and then I started doing that because I was basically with my back against the wall. I did not, I mean, we lived under minimum wage, so I really needed to do something.

Kelly: 03:51

So I thought, okay, I didn't have any talent to dance actually, but I did make it into the dance academy.

Armijn: 03:58

And how did you manage to get to this Dance academy without talent?

Kelly: 04:02

Willpower, only that. So I thought if I take that piece of willpower one more time and just put it all in this company that I'm going to build also for the world, but also for my daughter, then, you know, it could work. From that moment on, I started just blindly believing in myself, not per se like, okay, I'm the only one that can do this, but I was thinking like, yeah, if the goal and the company is a bigger, bigger thing than only you, then it's easy to believe in it, right? So the goal was outside of myself, but therefore I could believe in myself to just And make it

Armijn: 04:48

how did your journey go with building the company?

Kelly: 04:51

So I started calling the Council of Accreditation NAN, like standardization globally and asking them like, yeah, I want to make a standard, how does it work? And then they actually explained it, I could come along and, you know, they were liking sort of the enthusiasm and yeah, normally there are older people working in such environments, so they also like that I was still young then and they were like, okay, well if you want to know, come by and we'll explain you. So I got teached accidentally by those kind of organizations and persons that also liked the story. They might have thought this is never going to work, but they still explained it to me. So that was really nice to experience.

Kelly: 05:43

And then somebody told me, if you wanna do something in sustainability world, you have to connect with Anne Marie Rakhorst and Ruth Kornstrak. And well, that's what I did. And then basically they ended up being ambassadors for the company. And they also knew all the experts for LCA experts, etc. And then we started to form a board of experts with the people that were also believing in it.

Kelly: 06:10

I mean, this was in 2017, 2018, because then we did not have CSRD or law legislation yet in terms of sustainability. So then we started basically with the research question, if there are so many labels, frameworks, certificates to measure sustainability, is the world not better yet? Well, and the answers were quite the same internationally, but also nationally, Public and private organisations said, like, yeah, we don't know where to start. We don't know which topic of sustainability we have to measure. We don't know which tool to use, but also what is sustainability.

Kelly: 06:52

Is it CO2? Is it circular economy? So big. Yeah. Is it social topic?

Kelly: 06:57

So it became sort of a container definition. So then we figured if we create one overview of all those tools and certifications and frameworks with the underlying KPIs and all the data, we have that, then we could maybe actually make a meta standard to make it easier. Like if you're going to start measuring, you can first upload what you already have, see where you're standing and then continue the growth. And then it avoids that companies having to do double work basically. So that is what we started to do.

Kelly: 07:35

And after that research and the whole board of experts and technical committee, then we had a standard which we launched in 2018 actually on a CSR Netherlands event. Yeah, and then there were clients at that event that wanted to use the standard, but they said we want to use the standard, but only if you have a software platform. So then suddenly I was like, oh, I thought I was there, but I need to build a whole software platform. So that's how the platform came into place.

Armijn: 08:10

Yeah.

Kelly: 08:10

So we built a year on the platform from 2018 to 2019, And then we launched in 2019 GSCS platform.

Armijn: 08:21

With building the platform, did you work with a development party?

Kelly: 08:25

No. So in this time I was doing it by myself. We had one freelancer that was building the website, and he basically also built the first version of our platform in WordPress. Okay. And after that, well, after a year or so using that we rebuilt the whole platform in PHP, of course, with our own IT department.

Armijn: 08:55

Yeah. So how did you manage to grow from yourself and a freelancer to a team?

Kelly: 09:01

Yeah, well actually I built the first website myself in Jim Doe and that kind of two links, yeah. And then we had a freelancer that was helping with that, yes. Then I worked from my car for years, basically. I didn't have an office. Everybody thought we had an office, but we didn't.

Kelly: 09:21

And then I tried to get funding, basically. So we had a few employees like sometimes three, sometimes four. The max was five including me. And then we started to to search for for funding. And then, well, in 2022 we received our minority shareholders, which we're very happy with and from that point on we were actually having a vast office at Hoofplein 20 in Rotterdam and it was really nice.

Kelly: 09:55

And from that point on, we could really scale and hire people. And from that point on, I didn't have to only look a day ahead, because it was like surviving most of the times. But if you're surviving, the best comes out of you as well. And you get very creative with your resources. And if you don't have resources, you become even more creative.

Kelly: 10:19

Yeah. Yeah. So what we did is yeah. And I always say we, but what I did then was that we created partnerships with certification institutions, for example, with consultancy agencies globally. And then they were sort of a reseller of our platform.

Kelly: 10:38

So I mean, I didn't have the money to hire a lot of smart people and sales people, but through the partnerships we didn't need to. So that's basically how we did it. And I spoke a lot. I just went to events and yeah, go up the stage and just sharing like we're going to change the world and we really can change the world with data doing this and that and that. Because if you want to really change the world, you need sort of 25% of the people globally that are going to think in another way, speak in another way and act in another way.

Kelly: 11:16

And then they will pull the rest of the people with them, right? That's sort of the reaction that we aiming for. And the thing is that if you have data cards from companies, from governments, but also countries, for example, products, assets, events, then you can combine those data points and show the public like, hey, this is how we can steer, this is how you could use your buying power, for example, to really change the world. And then that was also the point when we got a lot of requests from the retailers and wholesalers like, hey, you have a product measurement module. Can we use that product data to in the be a bridge between consumer and producer?

Kelly: 12:05

And that's something I didn't even thought about, but that was really, really big. Because then the data that a company is collecting and verifying and calculating through our platform is not only used for reports for law and legislation, but also externally to basically explain to the consumers, hey, these are the parameters where you can sort of think something on and this is the definition of sustainability in this and that capacity. So you really are learning people in another way to to, yeah, steer.

Armijn: 12:44

Yeah. You just told us that you didn't have an office at that time, and you were working from a car. Can you take us through a day of Kelly working from her office car?

Kelly: 12:55

Yes. So that was very early bringing my daughter to my mom back then because she babysitted a lot. So, and then, yeah, I went through all of The Netherlands basically. So very often I was driving to Den Helder. It's almost in Thessal, but just and in Den Helder before the boat, yes.

Kelly: 13:22

And actually I was next to the boat every time because I was going to Peterson Control Union, which are doing certification and consultancy services, but also the platforms in the sea they're basically maintaining. So that was actually back then a very big client of ours, which also included us in a consortium that was the Bluescan. And the Bluescan was built by Boskalis, Von Ort, Iasi, Hirema, marine contractors, also Paterson was in that consortium. And we were basically trying to include the blue scan in our to have the maritime sector also up and running. So yeah, I went, I brought away my kid and then in the car hours driving, driving, but between the driving, calling a lot.

Kelly: 14:18

So I got a lot of fines for calling with a, with a, when I was driving because that was such an old car. I mean, I could not leave the phone anywhere else except for in my hand. In the meantime, just calling, calling, calling. And I back then worked also with a person, Tim, which I met from my tailor marketing company before. So together we always did cold calling, acquisition, Yeah, selling so basically he was working always from home, but he was making sure that my calendar was filled with appointments.

Kelly: 14:58

I really learned how to sell there, something that's not yet there. I mean, we did have a platform, we did have standards, but you have to make it come true. So we had, in my mind, we had an air castle and we put the foundation underneath it afterwards and simultaneously as well. So a lot of the times we were at clients and they were like, oh nice, can you also do this, that and that? I was of course we can.

Kelly: 15:27

And then within a few weeks we made sure that we had it. So but that was the sort of pioneering how the first years were going.

Armijn: 15:37

And how did you feel when you had to brag a little bit?

Kelly: 15:40

Nah. It didn't feel like lying because I knew we could deliver. Mhmm. And then it's different. Yeah.

Kelly: 15:46

So back then I didn't even know what an impostor syndrome was that came after the investment in 2022 basically.

Armijn: 15:55

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was entrepreneurship anything how you imagined it would be?

Kelly: 16:01

No, definitely not. My dad always told me, get your degree, then you have a nice life, but never start your own company. I never wanted to believe him because he had his own company. He is doing prefab buildings. And then I started and there were a lot of backlashes and a lot of nice things.

Kelly: 16:25

I went to my family multiple times like, hey, now you have to help me out because I'm not cash flow positive this month or whatever. So there was a lot going in in efforts, in hours, in I mean, it was working day and night and I did every role in a company myself, basically, back then. And I didn't expect that it was going to be so hard. And what was hard is that if I then presented the whole thing on a stage, a lot of the audience were male and often a little bit older. And it was for me very hard to see that sometimes they would believe me and they were appreciating what I was trying to do.

Kelly: 17:22

And in other cases you had a lot of backlash from the establishment, the green establishment basically in The Netherlands and Benelux that were like, yeah, but what is she going to do? There is now a lady without a degree, she's coming up from nowhere and she's making a standard. I mean, she's going to tell us what to do. So that was a little bit the tendency. And that was very hard because I was like, I just want to change the world.

Kelly: 17:51

And it was obviously very hard for people to believe that I was willing to put everything I had into that myself. Often there were also questions like, oh, so you got the bag of money from an investor and now you're playing with not your own money. I'm like, no, no, no, that's not the case. This is just is coming from me. This is like yeah, just how you build a company.

Kelly: 18:18

Normally you have an idea, you make a pitch deck and I learned that later on. And then you're going to fundraise and you're going to do a pre seed and a seed round and a series A. Well, I didn't thought that I was able to have an investor on board such early, and I also wanted to do it myself in the form of I was, like, perfectly knowing where I was going to and where I was heading to. So I didn't start with a business plan. We basically said, okay, we have standards, we have a platform, and now we're going to onboard clients in every sector.

Kelly: 18:57

So we didn't specify it on sector as well. It was just belief and doing. And then we had ABN AMRO for example as the clients and Ubiffer, FOUNDED, that were the first clients that were very big and using the And before that we had, we had smaller innovative companies like also from Rotterdam like Oxius for example, etcetera. And yeah, we learned it with the small parties how to do it and what their need was. Yeah.

Kelly: 19:28

And then we skilled up to the bigger parties. And then time works in your favor, in the form of you're promising something, then you have to deliver. Between the signing date and a promising date, you have time to to really fix it and make it work. But this was only the first years after that we had a team and luckily I have very smart people for the things that I cannot do so well. And all the things that I can do well, I do still myself.

Kelly: 20:01

Yeah. That's the better focus is more you go again. Yeah. And also when we onboarded in 2022 Doctor. Good as an investor in GSCS, which was great because the investor journey was a real journey where a lot of times I got the input like, yeah, but you're just a girl alone.

Kelly: 20:22

It's too risky to invest. You need a male co founder or whatever. And I refused to search for a male co founder because I was like, yeah, but I mean, how am I going to explain this to my kid? Like, if you're a woman and you you you're a woman founded company, you cannot have investments, for example. And I also tried with funds that were sort of fond of women as well.

Kelly: 20:50

So that was a journey. And then Enrique called me like five times and was like, yeah, I know somebody that knows you. Can we talk? Because we research a nice company to invest I was like, this is joke. This cannot be because I was like slapped down a lot of times already, I was like no this cannot be.

Kelly: 21:13

Then it came to you. Yeah, and then I cancelled the first meetings with him actually because I thought this is not going to work, this is no, this is not serious. And then he was very persistent and then we met in Amsterdam and then within a few weeks we had a deal and I was like, And then I remember calling my dad and a few other people that were close to me. I'm like, yeah, but this is really going to happen. And they were like, yeah, yeah.

Kelly: 21:45

And then I received that email with all the contracts and stuff and I didn't even send it to anyone to check it. I was like, okay, I'm going to sign now. I only sent it one time to my lawyer. But before he reacted I already signed. So then we had a deal, then we had a minority shareholder with a lot of knowledge.

Kelly: 22:12

So Eric and Kevin both already built companies and I mean knows, know how it is to invest and to grow a company. Because to build something, that's nice, that's where I'm good at. But to also grow it, that's a whole other league.

Armijn: 22:31

Yeah. So

Kelly: 22:33

we had to grow from, let's say, three, four people to ten, twelve people. That was in the other office first. That was going on a Kelly way. So in that period, Enrique worked in the organization a lot to also transfer the knowledge and show how it must be done. That was for me very good because I did literally everything for the first time.

Kelly: 22:58

So I mean also in that capacity I learned a lot. And then we trip or we grew the last three years. We are now 10 times bigger than three years ago in turnover and clients, etc, etc. So yeah, that's nice. And now we have a team of over, well, 20 people.

Armijn: 23:22

Yeah, and you're working in 110 other countries?

Kelly: 23:25

Yes, yes.

Armijn: 23:26

So, how did you celebrate? You got the funding. What did you

Kelly: 23:31

do? Well, I didn't Okay. So when I had the money in the bank, let's say it like that, I drove to my grandma, who was 96 at the time. And I showed her and she was like, Oh, God, that's a lot of money. That's very good.

Kelly: 23:54

And I saw in her eyes like, Oh, my black sheep is dry now, so I don't have to worry anymore. So I actually celebrated it with her and yeah, a few weeks later she passed away. Yeah, so we almost saw. Yeah, so this. Now, so I celebrated with my grandma because she was basically very important to me in my life and also in my daughter's life.

Kelly: 24:26

And I think she was like, okay, now I can go because she's okay now. So that's why, you know, that was hard to celebrate it after she passed away. At the other end, now it was my time to really step up and to make sure that it was continuing going well with me and also you know taking care of that money. And that's a thing that I really learned from my current investors, like how are you dealing with money, how are you budgeting, how are you making sure that you have enough left for the rest of the year, etc. So that was very good, if I didn't have that help I wouldn't have done that so wise as well as I did And it at the other end, I could pay off debts.

Kelly: 25:22

So I didn't from that investment personally, I was I had a clean slate and I was feeling very, very nice. Yes. And in the company we had funds, of course. So then we could grow and grow and grow. And I was very happy that two years after the investment in 2024, yeah, I basically could say, look, we grew the turnover annually from this to that.

Kelly: 25:50

And now it's over the millions a year and that is something I did not expect actually, because I did believe in it a lot, but then it must come true, it must So happen as you can like imagine stuff, but then, well, put your money where your mouth is, right?

Armijn: 26:11

To face reality.

Kelly: 26:12

Yeah. So it was hard to gather a group of organisations and people that were believing in the same mission that we have now and that we're now executing actually much more as in the beginning years, of course. And well, I like to just connect people and that's how I do my sales as well. So that helps of course clients, client onboarding, selling. At the other end, a few years ago it was more important like can we serve our clients in a good way and deliver what we promised instead of only focus on selling, selling, selling.

Kelly: 27:02

So now the last two years we basically worked a lot on internal processes, growing even more, professionalizing, more professionalizing and now, well, we're basically have a very big growth plan for the coming years, where we also going to build hubs in the countries that we are in. So that's I'm really looking forward to that. Yeah. In

Armijn: 27:30

this growing years, did you ever feel stuck or hold down or anything?

Kelly: 27:35

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually no. Wow.

Kelly: 27:40

No, no, the thing is that it's it became so normal to think outside of the box that if you keep yourself in the box then you get stuck. But if you're always out of the box that could be, that has, for their learning, has some pros and cons. But then you try at least always to think in solutions. And so no, not not really. Yeah.

Kelly: 28:19

Money wise, yes. I mean, that that's just what it is. Of course, if you struggling with that, then I had that that that incident.

Armijn: 28:31

What advice would you give the younger version of Kelly?

Kelly: 28:35

Oh, my I always say, all will be good in English. And I think I would have said that to my 16 year old version because I doubted so much and I ended up in situations around my sixteenth also involving abuse and that kind of stuff. And as I see it now, if I didn't experience those kind of things, I would not be where I am today. That's one thing that's very weird, but it's true. But I would say, yeah, be nicer to yourself, just believe in yourself and all will be fine.

Kelly: 29:22

Because you're creating your own truth.

Armijn: 29:25

Has this something to do with trust that everything will be well or believing in yourself?

Kelly: 29:31

Well, no, really believing that it will all be alright, because the thing is that the more you're nurturing your thoughts and your words and how you think, focused on doubt and negativity Mhmm. That that's what you're attracting. That's what you're creating. And if you're focused on the positive outcome and just believe, really believe in what you are doing. Even if it's not believing in yourself as that you find yourself perfect because that's something still have hard time with, but just believe in it, because you really are able you're your own creator.

Kelly: 30:14

And that's something that I think a lot of people don't realize. And I didn't realize that as well for a long time.

Armijn: 30:22

And how did you learn that? Because that's also a spiritual way, right?

Kelly: 30:27

So before I was researching the certificates, I was basically finding out or trying to find out why am I here, because I was like, yeah, if this is the world and this is life, I don't know if I like it so much. And, and well then I started to research religion and spirituality and check-in, okay, which story adds up and how are they thinking about this in Thailand versus The Netherlands or in China or whatever. And the thing is that, well so there, there I got a lot of information about that, but then the information has to change in behaviour. And then I just started trying to do it. So I thought, okay, if these texts all say that you can create everything that you can see in your mind, fine, let's do that.

Kelly: 31:22

And it worked out basically.

Armijn: 31:24

You saw it as a test.

Kelly: 31:25

Yeah. And well, the harder I did that, the better things came and the right people came on the right moments basically. And then we got clients on the right moments. And for example, we had COVID in 2020, of course it started. And then we just had signed the World Expo in Dubai as a client.

Kelly: 31:50

And you normally could not do business directly with the Expo in Dubai, because that needed to go through government. But we were the only party in the world that could deliver to them what they wanted, and that was measuring all the country pavilions and the suppliers and the whole event. And that's why we could do business with them directly. Then COVID hit. Before COVID it was very quiet.

Kelly: 32:17

I really needed to knock on doors like, hey, you need to do sustainability and everybody was like, yeah, sustainability, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we had to make that sexy again and that was my lobby a little bit, like that's what we're going to do. And then Covid hit and then suddenly we didn't have toilet paper in the supermarket. And then the people started to think, oh, the supply chain is important. So we got it busy during COVID, because people and organisations realized, oh, we do need more information about the supply chain and about this and about that and the risks involved and indeed also compliance and sustainability.

Kelly: 32:59

So and we could deliver that with the platform. So when I started out, everybody was like, why do you have so much stuff in your platform? Why not only measure the organization with one topic? And I was like, no, because you need the holistic view. And then, well, COVID hit and then people realized that more.

Kelly: 33:20

And in the end we also did the expo. So that's that was really nice to to do. That was the first international project. And after that we came back in The Netherlands and then they were all like oh now we want to work with you. So that helped a lot also, well, trust wise with the establishment here.

Kelly: 33:41

But yeah, I think that now with the CSRD and other law and legislation it's even more clear for people and now it's suddenly of course it became a buzzword and and but now everybody likes that we have such extensive tooling in our platform so that you could just do everything into one platform and that's that's really working. So I think GSCS and myself are basically the test case for me. Why I know that if you want it, you can really do it. What I do, everybody can. People tell me no, that's not true, but it is.

Kelly: 34:22

But you just need to set your mind straight and just do it.

Armijn: 34:27

So what's your advice for the scale up companies who are struggling a bit?

Kelly: 34:32

Dare to do it. I mean, I went on stages when I didn't, I was no sustainability expert back then, but I had my story and I had some slides to explain things. So, I mean, whenever I went on stage, I didn't prepare it. It was just I opened my mouth and words are coming out and I know a little bit what I'm going to say. And that's also like if you open that up and have that trust in yourself as well, then it's just like the universe is coming together or something like that.

Kelly: 35:08

I mean, last week, or no, a few weeks ago I was speaking with Ban Ki Moon at the United Nations in Paris and also with the former president of Austria. And they were we were having a conversation about is it going to be okay with the world? Also, do we have a United Nations five years from now? And then I got the question like, hey Kelly, how can your data help giving the power back to the people? Because if you see what's happening in geopolitical aspects now, it's not per se very positive.

Kelly: 35:44

I was like, yeah, but if we can bring the data in this way to the people, then you're going to have them also activated to really do something and step up against certain incidents or situations and really grasp their own opinion about it. But now it's so fragmented, all the information that you have, all the data that you have, that a person really needs to look for information. And then they don't know where to look or they look in a different way or in another way than the other person. But yeah, so that's basically a very big question, but it can be done by data and if everything is transparent, because we know already that a lot of companies cannot be transparent, but they can, or cannot be sustainable, but they can be transparent and for that drive behavioural change. Last week I was at the ABDAI with an event with Armijn Jagoda, and there was a philosopher and there was also explained how trees are connected under the ground even.

Kelly: 36:54

So I don't believe that people are not connected. I mean, you maybe don't see it, but it is a connection and connection is everything. So I think that if you stay pure, say what you would say just from the body, from your heart and believe in what you do, that you really can make a huge difference. Yeah. And I actually don't understand why people think I'm sort of an example for others.

Kelly: 37:27

Because it's really not that hard what I'm doing. It's just hard to stick with it and to every day do it again, do it again, do it again, do it again and do it better. So yeah. You can clip and edit whatever you want.

Armijn: 37:46

I can clip this. Yeah, don't worry about it. Yeah.

Kelly: 37:49

And I'm still learning English. The first time I was I I had to speak English was during the World Expo in Dubai when I had to interview the ambassador and the council, and and I and yeah. If you listen it back, it's still on YouTube. You're like, okay. Mhmm.

Kelly: 38:09

But it's, you know, went better over the years and that's good.

Armijn: 38:14

Thank you. What is the best thing of being a founder?

Kelly: 38:18

What I like the most of being now the CEO of GSCS is to see to come to life what you sort of imagined. If you told me five years ago, I would have never believed nobody if they told me that I was now standing here. And what I like is building a team, working with young international people, giving them the opportunities I never had. And if you if you give people responsibilities then they're also going to live like that or deliver like that in another way than that they don't feel that responsibility. And I think that the nicest projects that we did like Steel Amsterdam for example last summer, but also the life going lounge with Krautwad and Trekpleister that we have in week 15, that makes such impact basically, also externally and also in communication, that we are really going to continue this and hopefully within a few years we have 200 or 300 organisations like Kreuz Woudman Jagoda Albin doing the same.

Kelly: 39:32

Basically teaching the whole world how it's working. And also try to develop more trilateral collaborations like public private partnerships and then also involving the civilians as well. Because I really think that if you have that trinity, then it could be very much a better world in a few years. So the Sustainable Development Goals before 2030, we're not going to meet them, I'm afraid, but let's aim at least before 2040 that it's better. Yeah.

Armijn: 40:09

I also remember listening to you speaking about the consumer market in an interview of 2017. What's up with it?

Kelly: 40:19

Yes, true. So what we did is we have a few projects within GSCS where we now built the last years the Action App. And the Action App, we created that together with Hank Rogers from Tetris, the game from back in the day. And the action app is basically, you can download the app. It's going to allow you before the summer.

Kelly: 40:44

We're now testing already with very big organizations and foundations. And there you can basically see, hey, I can do this action. I can claim this action. Let's say doing a beach cleanup or picking something up from the street and throw it in a bin or, you know, and those actions can be very easy and get harder and harder and harder. And, yeah, so it's it's sort of a social media thing where we can also connect data from consumers and civilians towards, well, foundations for example, one wanted to set an action to, that, that you can claim, so it's working like you can create your own actions as well, and challenge your friends, to do also the action that you created.

Kelly: 41:33

And that could also be sponsored actions for example from well, the wildlife fund or the scouts for example, that want to measure their impact and see how many people are doing what in their network, but also externally from that. So we try to, yeah, make basically the whole toolkit for having a better world.

Armijn: 42:00

Thank you. Beautiful.

Kelly: 42:02

Thank you too.

Armijn: 42:03

I like better worlds.

Kelly: 42:04

Yeah. Wow. I hope. Thing is then I start talking. I don't know if I'm still talking in the right direction.

Kelly: 42:18

Yeah, absolutely.

Armijn: 42:20

Talk. I had to skip like 20 questions. You already answered them. I'm very happy. Thank you.

Armijn: 42:27

Thanks. Well, that was the episode with Kelly Ruigrok from GSES. Thank you for listening, and we hope to see you next time.

Jagoda: 42:40

This was the episode with Kelly Ruigrok, founder and CEO of GSES. Thank you for listening and stay tuned for the next episode of FOUNDED.