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Two founders talk about how to build software businesses that are meant to last. Each episode includes a deep dive into a different topic related to starting, growing, and sustaining a healthy business.
00:00:00.88
Rick
What's up, Tyler?
00:00:02.86
Tyler King
Not a whole lot. We got a special episode today. I'm doing the ah the annual recap episode.
00:00:08.93
Rick
The most important episode of the year that, uh, people, the, the, the, the, the least fully listened to episode of the year.
00:00:11.15
Tyler King
yeah
00:00:15.89
Tyler King
Yeah, I kind of wonder um because they are normally longer. We've got a little less than an hour and a half here. I actually went back and listened to last year's just now. um And it is so funny how much changes in a year. Like I'm listening. I didn't realize last year, almost like a huge part of what we talked about was that the year before, so not 2024, but 2023.
00:00:37.20
Tyler King
was the first time I did anything with LegUp Health. I was thinking it was 2022. I thought it was longer ago. So just 12 months ago, we were still relatively new to like us working together and LegUp Health having a software product. So a lot changes in a year.
00:00:51.06
Rick
Yes, it does.
00:00:53.30
Tyler King
Um, but yeah, so basically the format here is going to be, uh, we're going to alternate back and forth. We're going to start with you, uh, updates from last year goals for next year on the personal side. Then we'll switch to me.
00:01:04.73
Tyler King
Then we'll switch to you for work side and then we'll switch to me for the work side and we'll see how it goes. That worked for you.
00:01:10.60
Rick
Yeah. Yep. Um, and, uh, I, I definitely, um, do like full disclaimer. Like I, I usually put a lot more time into goals, uh, than I have this year, but I don't have time.
00:01:22.02
Rick
So I'm just, I like did as much as I could. And I was like, ah, I'm okay if these change. Um, but I feel like they're directionally correct anyway. So with that, I'll go ahead and jump in.
00:01:29.73
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:01:31.34
Rick
So, uh, just recapping my goals from last year, I'll just go through each of them and, and grade myself. Um, my first goal was to rebuild the daily exercise and writing habit. Um, I'm 50 50 here. Uh, I've nailed the daily exercise habit. Um, I am working out multiple times a day, every day, uh, for over a month now. Um, and, uh, I think it takes like people say it takes like 45 days to build a habit. So by the end of this year, I'll hit 45 days, uh, straight up to two workouts a day consistently. Um, and.
00:02:03.13
Tyler King
What, sorry, what do you do with two workouts a day? That's crazy.
00:02:06.93
Rick
Yeah. Well, my main goal is just like to get the habit of working out again, and then I'll drop down to one, um, in the future.
00:02:12.51
Tyler King
Oh, okay.
00:02:14.89
Rick
Um, and so, uh, but anyway, um, what do I do? I have a tonal now that's how you got a tonal.
00:02:21.77
Tyler King
Oh yeah. Uh, Sable got it for you, right?
00:02:23.48
Rick
Let's save it for my birthday. Yep. Um, I've got a peloton, so I'll alternate usually days on those two things. And then I do a lot of walking and running and basketball and elliptical machines.
00:02:32.79
Tyler King
Well, that's cool.
00:02:34.91
Rick
And I want to do more weightlifting, but I think the tonal will handle that.
00:02:35.39
Tyler King
Hey.
00:02:39.19
Tyler King
Yeah. Okay. Cool.
00:02:40.91
Rick
But writing, I am not, I did not do any writing. I feel bad about it. I am doing like daily, like journaling, but it's not the type of writing that I want to do. Like I i do want to do that writing, but it's not the writing that I was like talking about here when I said writing habit.
00:02:54.65
Rick
So I don't know.
00:02:55.29
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:02:56.00
Rick
I feel bad about that, but I also am like, I didn't have time and I'm
00:02:59.87
Tyler King
can Can I challenge? I think for like years I've been being like, just stop making that your goal, kind of. But like, not because I don't think you should be writing, but just like your life's not, you don't have time. And like, I feel like that should be the reward for making time. And if you don't make time, I don't think it should be like, and I'm just going to write anyway, you know?
00:03:20.50
Rick
No, I think, I think you're right. And it's actually what I thought a lot about as part of my goal. And when we get to the, what are my goals for next year? It'll, yeah I think you'll be like, yeah, that's right.
00:03:30.15
Tyler King
Oh, okay, cool.
00:03:30.15
Rick
Um, it's not about, it's actually not about, um, writing. It's about buying back time and that'll be my theme for next year, but I'll get to that in a minute.
00:03:38.48
Tyler King
Okay, cool.
00:03:38.59
Rick
Um, So, uh, the, the next goal I had, um, the next three personal goals I had were all related to family time. Uh, cause I was, I was feeling like I was not really where I wanted to be in terms of, uh, my nuclear, is it called nuclear family?
00:03:53.80
Rick
Is that what's what's like the core?
00:03:54.93
Tyler King
I guess, but I don't know the immediate family.
00:03:55.65
Rick
Yeah. Yeah. Immediate family. So. Um, I wanted to spend more, like when I, I, when I spent time with family by this year, I wanted to make sure I was more present and I've done a pretty pretty good job of this. I'm still like multitasking, but when, when someone's talking to me, I'm, I'm stopping what I'm doing. I'm talking, I'm listening, I'm engaged. I'm putting my phone away at night, that kind of thing. I can still be better at this, but I feel like, you know, much better than where I was the year before.
00:04:22.01
Rick
Um, regular dates was stable, total fail. Like we have not figured this out. Um, we did make a trip to Fort Lauderdale. We have gone on a couple of like lunch dates, but we we have no, um, sort of pre re recurring time together. That is like what I would call fun and intimate. Uh,
00:04:41.26
Rick
And, or, and not the house. So, um, I don't know. Uh, I kind of gave up on this one about a ah three months ago where I was just like, this isn't, I'm trying, I was trying really hard to make this happen.
00:04:54.75
Rick
And it was frustrating both of us. Um, and so I stopped and I, our life got immediately better once I stopped trying to force two dates a month, um, or even one day a month.
00:05:04.39
Tyler King
It sounds like the same thing we just said with writing, which is like, it'd be nice if you could do this, but like you got to change your life, not just keep your life how it is.
00:05:06.82
Rick
Yeah.
00:05:12.14
Tyler King
And then try to add this on top.
00:05:13.94
Rick
Exactly. It's much more of a time time deficit than a ah just, Oh yeah, let's just go do stuff. It's like, it's not and a lack of intention or desire.
00:05:22.27
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:05:23.03
Rick
it's It's a time thing. So, um, and then the last, uh, goal that I set was related to, uh, I wanted to take four vacations with at least one, um, scheduled at all times in the future to look forward to.
00:05:34.72
Rick
This was like, I i think I threw this on there as like the little last thing, but this was the most powerful goal I set this year. I had a vacation, I had four vacations. Um, and like meaningful vacations, like I went to see my parents.
00:05:46.87
Rick
I went to a Duke Kentucky game. I went to Fort Lauderdale. I went to, um, how we went to the beach. Uh, like there were so many things we did this year and it was so fun.
00:05:56.85
Tyler King
Mm hmm.
00:05:57.38
Rick
Um, I had so much fun on the vacations and I totally, I didn't totally unplug from work, but I, I did my version of that and it was, um, man, I just love, and and the the thing that I, there were two things that I loved about this one is the vacations, like.
00:06:10.83
Rick
like totally re-centered me and allow, like gave me the energy to come back better than where I was. And the second thing is having it to look forward to allowed me to like power through things, um, what, you know, before the vacation so that I don't know, this was very motivating.
00:06:26.73
Rick
So I'm actually going to keep some version of this next, next year, um, and maybe add to it a little bit.
00:06:29.67
Tyler King
Mm hmm.
00:06:32.37
Tyler King
Cool.
00:06:33.01
Rick
Um, yeah, so other updates, um, this is a big one. I don't want to go into detail on this on the podcast just for privacy reasons, but, um, we're in the process of taking guardianship over a 15 year old. Um, and I, you know, big change, uh, that's, you know, somewhat sudden due to life events, but, um, you know, not like crazy, crazy, you know, not as crazy as it sounds, um, given, given the relationship we have with this person.
00:06:56.31
Rick
Um, and so anyway, that's going to be a big life change that we're, it's already a big life change because it's, it's somewhat like we're acting like that already, even though the, you know, it's not legally approved yet. Um, but, uh, um, yeah, so we're in the process of that. That's going to be pretty significant life change. Um, and then a big theme from like the last 12 to 14 months has been the pain of moving into a new house that maybe wasn't built perfectly by the builder. Um,
00:07:24.66
Rick
And so we're, we're almost done, like fully settled after 14 months. We had literally like someone redoing our entire outside deck yesterday and it's just like such a pain.
00:07:34.88
Tyler King
It's so funny. So like again, listening to last year's episode on this, both of us had something that we were like, this last year sucked because of this thing, glad it's over.
00:07:45.72
Tyler King
And then yours was this, where now i like now with the benefit of hindsight, I know, oh, no, it was not over. And I had one of those two, which I'll get to later, but where I was like, man, that was rough in 2023.
00:07:56.31
Tyler King
And I'm like, that was the worst part of 2024 also.
00:07:59.15
Rick
yeah Um, but I actually do see light at the end of the title this year.
00:08:04.22
Tyler King
nice
00:08:04.25
Rick
There's always so many, like there's always so many more things that can go wrong. Um, and so, uh, but yeah, welcome to home ownership. Um, um, and so yeah, that's, that's a recap.
00:08:14.55
Rick
Like overall, like personally, it was pretty good year. Like it was on the up and up. Um, I think like, if I reflect like on what I was trying to accomplish and where I failed, like it all came down to like,
00:08:26.67
Rick
I joined a men's group. That was another thing I did this year that I wasn't really planning on doing when we did the recap episode last year. um and what it's It's actually called a men's group intentionally because it's only men intentionally. and it's it's ah you know like i don't know i'm I'm very conflicted on whether to re-up. I have to decide whether to commit for next year. or um and i'm I'm probably like not going to just because of all the stuff I have going on. and um but but It's been a really good thing because one of the things we did at the very beginning
00:08:57.32
Rick
was we assessed our life ah using a framework called the level 10 life. And it basically you you have like, I think it's anywhere between eight and 10 dimensions of life. And I did this assessment in March and I was like, holy crap.
00:09:11.63
Rick
I am so time poor. I am the, time I am the poorest time person.
00:09:13.76
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:09:16.07
Rick
I have the, like, I was like by far the, the, the time poorest of everyone in the group.
00:09:21.77
Tyler King
Hm.
00:09:21.91
Rick
Um, and so, uh, I think that I've, I, and I was kind of like, Oh, this isn't a problem at the time, but I've come to like ah reflecting on on my goals from last year. And then also, um, you know, just, just like being a part of this group has been very clear that like, that is my biggest deficit in in my life right now is like the amount of time I have to uh, just be, or do things that like give me energy or that I really value.
00:09:48.62
Rick
Um, and so I've got to, so I think I need to like make that, that is my theme for next year is like, uh, solving that problem.
00:09:53.22
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:09:54.73
Rick
So I've, I've, my, my 2025 theme is buyback time. And I don't know exactly what that means yet in terms of details, but I want to basically create time to do the things that I want to do, not necessarily do those things, but like create, just focus on creating those the time.
00:10:08.29
Rick
And maybe that I do, maybe I do that.
00:10:10.23
Tyler King
I love that, because like this is good timing for me to hear this, because coincidentally, the last two weeks have just been ridiculously busy for me, where like like today, it's 8.30 AM when we started recording this. I have not a single break through 5 PM meetings all day, which I think is like your normal day. um And by the time I get to the end of the day, then I've got some emails. So then I work till 6 or 7, not even catching up, but just like handling the important ones.
00:10:36.52
Tyler King
And I just feel like like, A, it's stressful, but B, I don't have any time to work on the stuff that matters. I'm just stay keeping my head above water.
00:10:44.82
Rick
reacting
00:10:45.59
Tyler King
Yeah. and And so even if you buy back your time and then reinvest it in the exact same things you're already doing, you're like, okay, I bought back 10 hours of work and I'm going to spend that 10 hours working.
00:10:47.46
Rick
Reacting.
00:10:55.34
Tyler King
You'll work on better stuff if you feel like you have that freedom.
00:10:58.58
Rick
Totally. So to kind of make sure that I do that, i've I've set some things related to this that I'd like to see myself do that I can, maybe if we do this, assuming we do this episode next year, which I hope we do because, but like I have to put the podcast on the table, you know,
00:11:12.54
Rick
as part of this, like like we may not, this might be the last annual episode.
00:11:12.62
Tyler King
Mm-hmm.
00:11:15.89
Rick
um Like that just, I've i've started thinking about all the things I've committed to you right now, Midget Group, this, it's a lot. um I get a lot of value out of this, so I think this is unlikely to be cut, but but anyway, I want i just wanted to call that up.
00:11:28.28
Tyler King
You should absolutely consider it, though. like like Everything should be on the table, yeah.
00:11:29.98
Rick
Yeah, I have to consider it. Everything, yeah. So um anyway, a primary theme is buyback time, like a couple of things that I would like to make intentional about this is one, I'd like to do a personal day um during the week, like Monday through Friday, every one to two months. um And this is just a day where I don't have any commitments. I can do whatever the hell I want to do. um And I try to do this like three times ah in 2024.
00:11:55.93
Rick
But every time I did it, the the nanny got sick like on that day. And I was in i had to do childcare or like help with childcare.
00:12:02.79
Tyler King
yeah
00:12:03.41
Rick
I didn't do it all. like but like It it like affected my personal day. so But i I did get one of them. And I was like, holy crap, this is like amazing because of what I could do.
00:12:12.17
Tyler King
What you do?
00:12:13.65
Rick
um I don't even remember. I think I just took care of chores. um But it was like,
00:12:16.92
Tyler King
Okay. So it's not like you're going to the movies and hit, you're still like doing productive stuff, but you just don't feel the pressure of like the a normal day.
00:12:24.44
Rick
Yeah, it was just a light day that that i got I took away like worry um and like worked out. I don't know. It was just like a reset day.
00:12:32.56
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:12:32.89
Rick
um So I want to do that. I would like to get to a place where I'm doing that intentionally every one to two months, um ideally monthly in the in the future. Um, I want to explore ways to get back time to do things. I really love to do like skiing right now.
00:12:44.64
Rick
It seems so hard in terms of kidding up on the mountain, finding the time basketball. I'm starting to do more, but like it takes time to go play you basketball because you, if you want to play for you know an hour to an hour and a half, you've you know got commute time, you know, it's hours of time.
00:12:59.34
Tyler King
here
00:13:00.57
Rick
Uh, I want to, um, uh, be, you know, present on vacation, I don't wanna be thinking about necessarily work. um Reading and writing, like that I put that under here as something that I love to do, particularly reading, um but also like usually that turns into writing for me. And then the other thing that I just, i in the last couple weeks I've been, I did my first like customer onsite meeting with ah Windfall this week.
00:13:25.42
Rick
um i i I'm doing some local networking, taking some calls for leg up health. It is so energizing for me to do like, I don't know, I don't want to call it sales, but like,
00:13:36.70
Tyler King
Yeah, to be a man about town.
00:13:36.95
Rick
the the yeah, yeah, be be a man about town. And I get, I got so much energy from it this week. So I would love to be able to just like intentionally network. um But like the idea of attending a networking event right now is just like, oh, I don't have time to do that.
00:13:49.98
Rick
So, um
00:13:50.05
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:13:51.59
Rick
Uh, and then I also want to have a calendar, a vacation, a family vacation on the calendar to look forward to at all times. So if I if i have, the if I, that's my personal goals for 2025.
00:13:56.90
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:14:00.18
Rick
It's buyback time and then, you know, kind of and a couple of intentional things related to that. But you know, ultimately there's, I want to have this like time surplus where I'm like, I don't know where to spend this.
00:14:11.99
Tyler King
I love the goal. You're going to have to make some tough cuts here, right? And especially you have to cut from work because you can't like not be a father.
00:14:16.98
Rick
Mm-hmm.
00:14:20.39
Tyler King
um Am I interpreting that right? like You don't have so much fat to cut that you can just be like, I'll stop writing, I'll stop the podcast, and then I'll have enough time, right?
00:14:30.24
Rick
Yeah, and I wouldn't say it's like and it might not be stopping everything um or anything at all. It's just like thinking about it differently. Like sometimes I over prepare for things or I obsess over details that maybe like aren't important anymore.
00:14:44.64
Rick
um And so i there I think there's a lot of fat there where where maybe like I needed to focus on that to get to this to where I am now, but now that's not important anymore. And I spent a lot of i still spend a lot of mental energy and time thinking about that. And I i can't give a good example. it's very That's very abstract, but like I know there are things that I do every day that like, oh yeah, that was very important.
00:15:08.57
Rick
you know, last year or the year before, but like I should stop doing that.
00:15:10.44
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:15:11.73
Rick
I should delegate that or I should um you know just eliminate that from my my routine.
00:15:17.72
Tyler King
Yeah. An example I have of that from my life is like when I was 23 years old, I was trying to figure out how personal finances work. And I, every single item I purchased, like if I bought a pack of gum at a gas station, I would enter it in a spreadsheet. I'd check all my expenses. And then eventually I got calibrated and I was like, okay, I have a pretty good sense of what I can buy in a month. And I stopped tracking it as closely and it's, it's been fine for the last 20 years.
00:15:39.53
Rick
That's a perfect example, and I have a lot of those types of things for work, um and I don't need to do them.
00:15:43.80
Tyler King
Mhm. Mhm.
00:15:46.29
Rick
so um so And I'll talk more about that in our professional goals. But yeah, that's my those are my personal goals.
00:15:50.54
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:15:52.32
Rick
What about you?
00:15:53.10
Tyler King
Cool, love it. ah Yeah, let me run through my updates from last year pretty quickly, because i I think it was not that eventful of a year, and mostly in a good way. um I had a goal of ah like maintaining my exercise routine, which is 9,000 steps a day, rucking twice a week, 200 push-ups a week. um I think I missed, I full-on missed three weeks out of the year.
00:16:13.88
Tyler King
um The main caveat is I stopped doing pushups a couple months ago because my wrists were hurting. Um, and I, I tried to buy, like I went to a physical therapist. I tried a bunch of stuff and got a new keyboard. Anyway, my wrists are okay now. So now I'm starting to reintroduce stuff to be like, what was the actual problem? I think it was the pushups, unfortunately, but I'm going to next, like starting in January, I'm going to start doing them again and see if the wrist pain comes back and I'm hoping it doesn't. So, um, anyway, I mostly did my, my exercise goal.
00:16:45.37
Rick
Nice. Isn't it crazy how, um, physical, like, uh, uh, an ailment that is like nagging, but like it compounds into like almost like just.
00:16:46.22
Tyler King
Umm...
00:16:56.49
Rick
You stop doing stuff that you love.
00:16:58.59
Tyler King
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. And I mean, my main takeaway, so I've luckily been ridiculously healthy my whole life. I've, I've never been to a doctor aside from a physical like annual physical before. This is my first time ever going to physical therapy. They like didn't want to talk to me. Not no individual person was me. They were all, all the people were nice, but I went to like the doctor first and they were like, so what's wrong with you? And it's like, I can tell my wrist is becoming a problem. And they're like,
00:17:22.29
Tyler King
How much does it hurt? And I'm like, well, it doesn't hurt exactly, but it will. I can tell it will. And they're just like, come back when your arm is falling off. What are we talking about here? And I'm like, just the, America hates preventative medicine here. And the same thing with the physical therapist. He was just like, he was very helpful and very nice, but he was just like, I have people who are like really in serious pain here to talk to. What are, what why are we talking?
00:17:46.12
Tyler King
But by doing this, like I avoided having that physical pain in the future, hopefully. So and anyway, that stood out to me as like, oh, the system's broken. OK, cool.
00:17:53.80
Rick
Yep. No, it definitely is.
00:17:56.31
Tyler King
um and then So those are my two goals. or Sorry, that was one goal. My other goal was finish the house remodel. ah That is 100% done. I mean, we have a little like, some end tables to buy or whatever, but like all the actual construction's done, feel really good about it, it went great. Actually came in slightly under budget. I think that's the first time in the history of the world that that's happened.
00:18:17.41
Tyler King
ah
00:18:17.93
Rick
You must have a good a good contractor, man. i just like like i Good for you.
00:18:20.72
Tyler King
Yeah. Well, I will say, it's I really raved about them before. It it ended up ah It's under budget because they quoted us a really high price. That's part of it. And I will say the quality is good. It's not as great as I like the first bit they did was that they send different people all the time. There's just this constant cycle of new people. I'll say the first people we got were better than everyone else that came after them. um It's still very good. I'm very happy with it.
00:18:47.63
Tyler King
ah
00:18:48.61
Rick
Got to send me pictures.
00:18:48.76
Tyler King
And we just love, oh yeah, I should do that. it's It just completely changes how the house, like that we we just took down one wall. So like these two rooms opened up into each other and added a few shelves and like stuff that you'd think wouldn't make a huge difference, but the the experience being in the house is completely different now.
00:19:04.57
Tyler King
So really glad that happened.
00:19:04.91
Rick
That's awesome.
00:19:07.07
Tyler King
um And then other updates that I kind of unrelated to goals took a big trip to Japan um That was kind of the biggest most expensive trip I've ever taken in my life and it was awesome loved that The the big News, of course, is that Shelly, my wife, is pregnant.
00:19:24.42
Tyler King
um We're expecting a baby girl in April, as I've said on the podcast before.
00:19:29.49
Rick
Wow.
00:19:29.73
Tyler King
I'm pretty, yeah, I mean, that's big. Well, you you've done it twice now and sort of ah inheriting a third right now. um we I will say, i'm I'm glad for a lot of reasons for that. If that weren't the case, I do think this conversation right now, I might have a little bit of like,
00:19:48.49
Tyler King
What's next? Like if we because we were on the fence about having kids, you know, I'm 39 years old. Obviously, we weren't like super gung about it. um If we had decided the other way and said we're not going to have kids, I do think my life is almost like problematically stable.
00:20:02.83
Rick
Hmm.
00:20:02.99
Tyler King
um Like my personal like i this year, I had the construction to look forward to. What would I be looking forward to? um It doesn't matter because I've got the next 18 years covered. But ah that thought did cross my mind.
00:20:16.92
Rick
That tells me that, well, you will have plenty to do. Let me just say that for the next, at least 18 months.
00:20:21.73
Tyler King
Mm hmm. Oh, I know.
00:20:24.62
Rick
Um, but, uh, yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I, we should, I would love to talk about that. more sometime because that's a kind of, I mean, that tells me that you're not, you should have more things to do.
00:20:39.90
Tyler King
Yeah, absolutely. Well, and again, it it hasn't been a problem in the past, so I don't think I've been like living with a problem.
00:20:43.35
Rick
Okay.
00:20:45.18
Tyler King
But um anyway, just
00:20:46.51
Rick
Well, you anyway, having kids is, you'll never have that problem.
00:20:48.88
Tyler King
Yeah, it's all it's all moot. um In terms of looking forward, ah so yeah, obviously from in terms of personal goals, baby stuff in general is the ah the big one. And I i know there's the you know the Mike Tyson quote, like everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. like ah I know everything I'm expecting will be wrong, and I'm just going to have to flow with it. So like my number one goal is just like get through it. um
00:21:16.62
Rick
do Do you have the space for a child in your current place? Do you have to move? like Is there anything like that you need to consider or or you do you feel like you got the right place?
00:21:23.05
Tyler King
i I think we're we've we've definitely got the right place. um Yeah, I know there's like advantages to having kids earlier or later in life. One of like the the benefits of later is like I'm financially comfortable. We've got our forever house already. The remodel helped a lot because we finished our basement, so we added like I don't know, 25 percent more square footage.
00:21:43.06
Tyler King
um So, yeah, I think we're very it's still going to be hard, but it's as easy as it could possibly be in terms of like the circumstances we're in, I think. And like my parents live in town and Shelley's Shelley as her parents are divorced.
00:21:52.45
Rick
That's great.
00:21:55.64
Tyler King
So there's two sets of parents and they're going to be flying in like we're going to have tons of help. We have good money. We have a great house.
00:22:01.57
Rick
Man, this is perfect.
00:22:01.79
Tyler King
So. Yeah, we'll see.
00:22:04.83
Rick
Until you get punched in the face.
00:22:06.53
Tyler King
Uh-huh.
00:22:07.77
Rick
Literally.
00:22:09.92
Tyler King
So my first one's just like, get through it. And and what what I mean by that is like, don't ah don't feel feel beholden to any of my expectations. like Just be flexible and and roll with it. That's my first goal. ah My second goal is to create space for Shelly to have a life outside parenting. um I think it's probably always or almost always the case that just gender roles, like the woman tends to but well especially in the early parts, like the the man can't do certain things.
00:22:36.45
Tyler King
um But also, like Shelley is more nurturing than me by nature, and she also doesn't work as much as me. So like we we've we've had this discussion already where the expectation is that it's more like a 60-40 thing because I work many more hours than she does. ah So she will be more of the primary like caregiver than me. but Uh, I, I think we are both aware of the possibility that like it becomes her entire life and consumes her. And so I, I need to do my part, especially not just to like contribute when she's around, but say, go take a whole day, go somewhere else, like get away from it all. So that's my second goal.
00:23:11.43
Rick
That's a great goal. I mean, uh, when, when Sable gets, what, for the two kids that we had, when Sable gets to the point where she's comfortable just at an, even in just a night, taking a night to go do whatever she wants to do once a week makes it, made it, it makes a huge difference.
00:23:28.35
Rick
So the fact that you're already talking about a whole day, it's just, um, that's awesome.
00:23:28.97
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:23:32.51
Tyler King
Well, yeah, and I credit to her. So she's a lecturer at WashU. She normally teaches four classes a semester, which is like two so two two sessions on Monday, two on Tuesday, two on Wednesday, two on Thursday.
00:23:44.49
Tyler King
That's her normal semester. She could, in theory, have the whole fall off for maternity leave. She's choosing to teach one class. So one class Monday, one class Wednesday, something like that, which I think was a great idea just to like, OK, you're mostly on full time mom duty, but like get out of the house, go go do some normal stuff for a bit.
00:23:59.82
Rick
That's great. It's perfect.
00:24:02.24
Tyler King
Um, so that, yeah. And then, um, I have a note here. I don't even know what this means, but like take advantage of the calm life I've built is my third like baby goal here, which I don't, again, I don't know what this means, but I'm just, you know, I, I own my own company. I make good money. I like.
00:24:19.76
Tyler King
Like we were saying earlier, not that it'll be easy, but it should be easier for me than it, like, like, I can't imagine a better situation. So like, just stay mindful of that and take advantage of the, the privileges that I have and not like, I think you can get sucked into, uh, I don't know about child rearing, but like in business, right? You can get sucked into like obligations that you don't have to have kind of, I just want to avoid that basically. Um, so yeah, that's my baby stuff.
00:24:48.66
Rick
That's awesome. I mean, big, I can't wait till this, I can't wait till next year and hearing about this upcoming year. It's going to be so life altering for you.
00:24:57.66
Tyler King
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you like, you you and I met when we were like 22 years old and even back then you were like, I want to have kids. I want to have a big family. I've never been that like, not that, not that I'm regretting it by any means, but like, I'm, I'm much more of a person who, uh, this is going to rock my world even more than it did for you. I'm i'm thinking.
00:25:15.11
Rick
Yeah, that'd be great.
00:25:16.66
Tyler King
Uh, okay. Um, and then I just also, you know, uh, like fitness type goal. I want to stay disciplined on that, but also I want to, I don't want to be like, Oh, I have to like ramp it up this year.
00:25:28.16
Tyler King
Like I know a lot of stuff's coming. So I'm basically saying keep up more or less what I do. But once the kid comes in April, allow myself to cheat without completely giving it up. I have a problem sometimes where I'm like, if I can't do it all the way I like, yes, last week was a perfect week.
00:25:42.13
Rick
You don't, yeah, it's like all or nothing. It's a silly, like, silly, like fake choice.
00:25:43.79
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:25:47.27
Tyler King
Yeah, if I get halfway through the week and I haven't rucked once, I don't ruck the second time because I'm like, well, I'm not going to hit my goal anyway.
00:25:51.97
Rick
Why why do our brains work that way? it's It's so stupid. Like I do it all the time.
00:25:55.22
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:25:58.10
Tyler King
Yes. So I'm hoping I have my goal set and then I'm basically cutting them on half and like, can I, can I do half of my goals after, uh, after the kid's born? That's what I'm hoping for.
00:26:08.35
Rick
That's awesome.
00:26:09.52
Tyler King
Uh, so yeah, that's my personal stuff. Let's move on to the good shit now.
00:26:14.20
Rick
I can't believe you're having a baby. ah still I can't believe that's happening. I'm so glad it's happening. I can't wait to hear. it I can't wait to hear about it.
00:26:24.43
Tyler King
I'm sure i'm sure we'll have a we we already have a lot to talk about, but we'll have even more to talk about soon.
00:26:25.37
Rick
papa tyler yeah um All right. Let me get scrolled down here. All right. Um, okay. So my professional updates, so switching to professional, my professional updates are, um, from 2024 are pretty simple. My first goal was to get leg up health to 200 K and annualized revenue, recurring revenue. We're at about 13 and a half, 14 K a month right now. We needed to get, we need to get to 16, excuse me, 16.5 K, um, a month to get to this goal.
00:27:00.54
Rick
ah TBD, like it's our open enrollment. We usually know where we are ah February 1st. The way this goal works is generally like what's our February revenue. um And so we'll find out. I'm calling this like pretty green. There are two things that happened that I thought were really cool. First is we're like ah at $13,000 a month, which seems crazy, um which is like,
00:27:26.45
Rick
over the course of this year, and um but like compared to where we were in January, over 100% growth and monthly recurring revenue. um And then we did it ah with a lot of growth outside of open enrollment, um selling
00:27:36.68
Tyler King
Mm hmm.
00:27:37.74
Rick
uh, servicing businesses on group health insurance, which was not expected. And so I, I feel like we just have the full package now in terms of product offering JD knows how to you know service it. Um, and he knows how to generate, he knows how to generate a lead if he wants to, um, he knows how to convert, you know, and so we have the whole model. It's just like, and this gets into next year, it's it's going to be about like, okay, how do we actually scale JD? Um,
00:28:03.98
Rick
And so um I'll talk about that tomorrow, but overall, like I'm pretty, pretty pumped with where leg up health is as a business and the opportunities in front of it for 2025. Do you agree with that?
00:28:13.27
Tyler King
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, yeah, that, that transition to doing group was, I know we talked about it on the podcast, but like, and in some ways it's like a really good example of a pivot. It's not exactly a pivot because like, it's just adding another thing on, but like a huge the the reason the goal got hit is because a change happened mid-year. Um, and I think it it would be easy to overlook that and just be like, well, of course we sell group insurance, but, um, yeah, no, I, I,
00:28:40.10
Tyler King
I've told you before, I've never hit a goal I've made in my life, like a professional revenue goal. And whether leg up hits it or falls just short, like I'll call it a ah win. So yeah, I think it's great.
00:28:51.17
Rick
Awesome. Um, the, the second goal was apply profit the profit first framework. If you're not familiar with this, it's basically a, very popular book for entrepreneurs that advocates for, ah instead of you know doing getting your revenue and then spending it and then taking a distribution, you take the distribution first and then work your expenses within whatever you have left from the partner distribution, after the partner distribution, I mean. And so um we paid, we set 1% as our partner distribution on top of like top line revenue.
00:29:22.02
Rick
and We paid over $1,000 in partner distributions this year. Tyler got enough to buy a $25 gift card at Starbucks. um I think it was more than that.
00:29:31.75
Tyler King
Oh yeah!
00:29:32.71
Rick
Two $25 gift cards at Starbucks. um and but it was just like It wasn't about the money this year, um but we did pay for over $1,000 out. And we've got this sort of built into our budgeting.
00:29:45.80
Rick
We can, you know, we'll have to figure out next year, do we keep it at 1%? That's probably what we'll do, but we could, you know, up it to 2% maybe. um We could leave it as it is. We could, you know, as revenue grows, that, that gets more meaningful, but like just having this baked in as, as a discipline, I think will be a very important, ah you know, three to five years from now.
00:30:07.52
Rick
um So I feel really good about that one.
00:30:07.75
Tyler King
agreed
00:30:09.51
Rick
Uh, get JD to his target compensation was gold number three. We're not quite there, but we did like have a real, like he had a really good last paycheck, uh, or two paychecks ago where, um, I think he he was like even ah surprised at how much money he was making.
00:30:23.43
Rick
So, um, that was pretty fun, uh, to see.
00:30:24.36
Tyler King
mr
00:30:26.06
Rick
Uh, so I feel like, uh, not TBD on this one, um, cause it's ultimately going to be about a budgeting factor for next year, but I feel like we're there. Um, this is very tied to the 200 K ARR.
00:30:36.09
Tyler King
and Just to expand on the budgeting thing. So like we could pay JD his target comp, or we could invest more in growth. And so it's just a question of, is it better for all of us, but especially JD?
00:30:47.14
Tyler King
Would JD rather ramp it up? Because his target comp isn't the ceiling. like He also gets the partner distributions. So yeah.
00:30:52.23
Rick
Correct. Yes. so um and it's just it's And we're kind of there, but you know we're right on the threshold where it's like, ah, this is a little uncomfortable in terms of ah excess ability to save and best in experiments, that kind of thing.
00:31:06.47
Rick
um And then the the last goal I had was related to my day job at windfall, where I am VP of revenue operations. um i I wanted to prioritize better. um And I don't think I did a very good job at this, um but I thought about it a lot. So I was like, while this goal, like, what's interesting about goals is sometimes you set goals and you don't actually make progress against the goal, but it's like in your mind.
00:31:28.42
Tyler King
Mm hmm.
00:31:28.50
Rick
And so you're, you're almost preparing to make progress gets the goal and you're just not ready yet. And I feel like this, that was the school where I thought about like very intentionally about everything I was doing. Like, is this leverage or is this optimization in many cases, like.
00:31:42.04
Rick
I was doing still doing things that I probably like, if I look forward, should not be doing related to my buyback time thing. Um, but I, I definitely still, uh, like made progress against this.
00:31:55.02
Rick
It's just not quite yet manifested in my time spend. Um, but I, uh, but so, so yes, I did this, but not to the level of it having a huge impact on my life.
00:32:03.80
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:32:03.93
Rick
Um, there are other, like a lot of other updates I'm really proud of, um, on professionally that I, uh, I wasn't surprised. I mean, I guess technically I got ah promoted to VP of VP at windfall. I didn't, like i I was already in sort of, for all intents and purposes of VP, but like I got officially dubbed VP of road operations. So that was like kind of an interesting milestone in my career.
00:32:27.53
Rick
um People keep my previous ah start venture sold, um which was kind of fun. It was meaningful meaningful for me and JD. And then LegUp Health, one thing I'm really proud of at LegUp Health, it doesn't show up necessarily in revenue, um but we have 25 five-star reviews on Google, over 50 testimonials on the website that are like people's pictures saying how much they love the service.
00:32:50.78
Rick
Um, and I just, that's that type of social proof, I think is going to pay dividends next year as we try to step on the gas, um, with what we have. And so, um, I'm really ah proud of that. And then the other thing that I'm really grateful for is JD's effort mid-year, um, to grow the business and how that turned into some unexpected excel, you know, mid-year growth.
00:33:12.54
Rick
Um, I didn't expect that, but I'm like very grateful for it.
00:33:15.77
Tyler King
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:17.08
Rick
So.
00:33:17.25
Tyler King
I like all those.
00:33:18.61
Rick
So professionally, 2024 is pretty awesome. I had a really great year.
00:33:24.63
Tyler King
That's great.
00:33:25.31
Rick
Nope.
00:33:25.64
Tyler King
I love it.
00:33:26.43
Rick
Um, 2025. So what am I going to do next year? Uh, I, so like I felt, I actually don't know. Um, I'm, I'm, I don't want to set goals. I feel like I have a user partner now, JD, and we're, we need to talk about this.
00:33:42.03
Rick
Some things that, so, so what I've told Tyler in advance of this episode is that I, I don't want to like set goals here. I i want to like maybe share with Tyler um and you all what, what my, um, what I'm thinking. And then Tyler can react to that, but we probably won't set formal leg up health goals until February. Um, but like generally like most likely I'm thinking like some revenue goal, I think two X revenue might be too ambitious next year, given that we're also going to have to figure out how to help JD get
00:34:15.58
Rick
Like out of everything, uh, not out of everything, but like he should not be the single point of failure for everything.
00:34:17.54
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:34:21.73
Rick
Um, and or or like, feel like he's got everything on his back. Um, so like I put what I wrote down was figure out how to help JD scale himself is like the secondary goal here.
00:34:26.96
Tyler King
Well.
00:34:31.61
Tyler King
Yeah, so a thing that I don't think ah we've made time for is to just like sit down, the three of us, or even really the two of you could do it without me, I think, and just like daydream about what you want the business to be. um there's you know There's a monthly partner meeting, and there's a little time for wandering around in there, but it's it's never thinking super long term.
00:34:51.65
Tyler King
Um, like I'd be interested in seeing, okay, if, if revenue grows by 50%, if it goes from 200 to 300, what does that business look like in terms of how much is JD working? How much is each person making, et cetera? And like, how much do we need to invest to get there versus two X, like going from 200 to 400. Then how much is JD making, but then how much is he working and how much are we investing? I'd like to just model out a few of these and just talk about what, what have these, what actually sounds like what we want.
00:35:19.87
Rick
I agree. i like my biggest The thing that I feel like I have to choose between is like revenue growth significant revenue growth and actually building a ah scalable business that ah is less risky. like you know like I feel like the more the more the longer we go with JD doing everything from like ah marketing to sales to service to like dealing with insurance company, you know ah licensing stuff, the the the more the the less the the more risky it is that with this thing, like we just stopped doing it one day.
00:35:53.34
Rick
um and so
00:35:55.59
Tyler King
um i'm There's a failure mode there, which is the JD gets hit by a bus or quits failure.
00:36:01.44
Rick
or Or yeah, or burns out, I guess is my main worry.
00:36:03.56
Tyler King
or burn so but But there's a world where he keeps doing it all, but the pressure's off a little bit.
00:36:04.56
Rick
Yeah.
00:36:10.02
Rick
That's interesting. So yeah, like that's the mob. That's a scenario. The model is like JD. What about this? um And then, yeah, that's interesting. So yeah, I, I agree with you like, but but that, that, that it's like, okay, the goal is just like to get comfortable.
00:36:22.94
Rick
And then there's another goal of like, let's grow. And then there's another goal of like, um, well, maybe we, we need to do like the get com part of the get comfortable part is getting, you know, JD help.
00:36:25.81
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:36:33.96
Rick
And that requires hiring people, which changes like a lot of things.
00:36:37.34
Tyler King
Right. And that's a different type of risk of burnout. What if but if like now JD has to manage this person? And what if there are problems? And ah the hiring process itself is a lot of work. like It's not obvious to me that taking JD off the front line is the quickest path to reducing burnout.
00:36:54.44
Tyler King
It is probably the quickest path towards like, like if you're looking at this Rick and saying in order for me to be full time on this, we need to be at a million in revenue and we can't get to a million with JD being the only guy. So like we have to scale to get where we want to go. That's fine, but it's not clear to me that that's the best way to retain JD.
00:37:13.42
Rick
I agree. Um, uh, I think like I know ah having been at the stage before, I know that that the the first couple of hires are going to be experiments. And I know the quicker we can get to running those experiments, the quicker we're going to learn. And we're going to know what the levers are for the business and because ultimately this isn't going to be a head kick. I, In an ideal world, this business can be driven by headcount growth. like growth our Growth can drive be driven by headcount um it like hires, basically. And we don't know if that's true unless we try to do it. um So like I want to learn. like there's a there's sort of like One of my inputs to like our planning session was going to be, I would love to learn like what a hi ah additional time you know people helping us could do for the business.
00:37:59.79
Tyler King
Yeah, I totally agree, but that there is a real chicken or the egg problem here because you're the person who should do that.
00:38:03.55
Rick
ah
00:38:05.82
Tyler King
Like could JD do it? Probably, but like, this is absolutely you like you're great at this. You've done it before it's in your wheelhouse. Like an experiment where JD is going out and hiring someone and managing them isn't a real experiment because if it, fit I mean, if it succeeds, great, then that was, that's awesome.
00:38:24.00
Rick
If it fails, you don't know.
00:38:24.06
Tyler King
But if it fails, yeah, exactly.
00:38:27.04
Rick
I just want to call out like one thing that I'm really grateful for this year is just like having Tyler more into the business like brings this type of perspective um more often. like I was getting it through the podcast.
00:38:38.60
Rick
but like Tyler being deeper in the business, like this type of challenge, like this, Tyler thinks differently than me. Like you think it's so, it's so helpful to have this perspective and it totally wows me back. And it it also creates space for JD to have ah a larger voice, um, on, on, on the future of the business. So I'm, I'm really looking forward to whatever we decide. And I look at my part of my role as like contributing with the labor, but like I also see my role as making sure the business is properly financed for whatever we decide to do.
00:39:06.60
Rick
And if what we decide to do requires capital that we don't have, like i I ultimately need to make sure that happens. I don't expect that to be necessary, but if it is, I wanna make sure that the the financial, like I'm not missing on my financing obligations to the business to make sure that we can execute whatever plan we come up with.
00:39:13.07
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:39:25.64
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:39:26.84
Rick
um All right, windfall. ah So if leg up health is about JD scaling himself and whatever way that, whatever that means, when fall, it's about me scaling myself.
00:39:38.26
Rick
So I really want to level up as an executive and prepare that this is very related to the time by back time goal. Like I feel like sometimes I'm still in the, the, you know, if if, if, if, if windfall is in phase three, I'm still in faced, I'm still acting like we're in phase two as an executive.
00:39:57.04
Tyler King
Mm.
00:39:57.94
Rick
And I need to figure out how to get ready for phase four before like this thing leaves me behind. Um, and so, uh, I want to, like, what this means is like, how do I manage? What, what is my job? Uh, and today versus, and what will it be in 18 months versus like, what was it? What does it mean for like what I should be doing as an individual contributor versus what I should be delegating and hiring for?
00:40:22.90
Rick
What are the things that, like, what is the information um that I need to stay on top of ah versus the stuff that I i maybe you need to intentionally ignore? um I'm suffering from a little bit of information overload right now because I'm just and ingesting so much, so much data. um And then I need to retain and level up my existing org members, like people who report to me or up through me, like I have an obligation, I have to level them up or they will get left behind. um
00:40:50.00
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:40:50.66
Rick
I want to retain them. Like they have, like people will leave if we don't take care of them and we don't figure out how to get them to their net, wherever they want to be. Um, and then I'll likely we'll be hiring more people. I don't know how many people I hired this year. I haven't really reflected on that, but it was a lot. Um, we didn't have a Lehigh office. Uh, when I first started at windfall, we now have a Utah office with, I think like almost 10 people there. So, um,
00:41:11.69
Rick
It's, uh, so, so if I hire, I want to just keep that high bar. I think we've done a really good job of hiring great people. Um, and I don't want that to to suffer, uh, while, while I'm going through this. So, you know, for windfall, it's just about like, kind of, kind of, I've never been the executive at this type, large of a business. Um, and so making sure that I'm, I'm, I'm spending my time, uh, very wisely.
00:41:36.03
Tyler King
Yeah, it seems like a really interesting challenge. Not only have I never been at that large of a business, but especially the fast growth. where like The, the quote unquote leadership team at lesson knowing CRM is people who took years growing into their role. And you just can't do that at a place like windfall, where you're growing so fast that it's like, okay, you know, we, you know, for you, Rick, to level up, that probably means someone else has to do your old job and that, and they probably only have a matter of months to figure out how to do that. It it sounds both. Terrifying and really interesting.
00:42:09.30
Rick
Yeah, it's super interesting. And if you don't say on top of it, it is a recipe for a burnout or, you know, failure, um, in whatever, because the expectations are constantly changing, um, in this environment.
00:42:22.31
Tyler King
Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, I know you don't, uh, share a huge amount about windfall on the podcast, but I'm, uh, I'm obviously more interested in leg up health, but I'm interested in seeing how both of these go.
00:42:32.45
Rick
Thank you. Thank you. Tell me about your professional goals for 2025 and 2024.
00:42:36.09
Tyler King
Yeah. Well, yeah, I'll start with updates from last year. Um, I'll do updates first and then goals. So, uh, three people left the team, um, uh, less annoying. Uh, one of, yeah.
00:42:46.37
Rick
That most people are going to listen to that and go like, that is not a lot on the 20 person company for a year. That's less than what? That's barely what 10%, a little over 10% turnover.
00:42:55.67
Tyler King
Yeah, it's 15% or something. um
00:42:57.54
Rick
but That's normal. This is crazy for you.
00:43:00.60
Tyler King
Yeah, that's a lot. um and it's so ah Yeah, it's our like our sales guy and a CRM coach and a developer. Now, it's it's interesting, even when people leave, every single person stayed for at least three months after saying they were leaving, so like we have a lot of time. like ah We have a lot of time. So we replaced the CRM coach, but so ah the salesperson left. And basically, you know I don't think we're a business that really has a good sales model. I'll i'll talk a little bit more about that in a second. So we didn't hire a replacement there. And then ah the developer who left ah
00:43:35.67
Tyler King
A, he's still working part time for probably another year or so. And then B, ah we had junior developers that were kind of leveling up. So we didn't need to hire someone. He's kind of replaced by people we already had on the team.
00:43:46.97
Tyler King
But yeah, three people leaving is like, I think the most we've ever had probably in a year.
00:43:53.11
Rick
good Are you okay with this?
00:43:53.55
Tyler King
So.
00:43:54.67
Rick
like How are you feeling about it?
00:43:56.47
Tyler King
Yeah, I, uh, you know, it's sad. Any like, it's so weird running a business. I think it's probably similar to like, anytime you talk to someone with kids and you're like, what would you change about anything in your life? And they're like, I wouldn't change anything. Cause I'm like butterfly effect. I might not have my kid. And it's like, okay, shut up. ah Like act like this is a parallel universe or something like the individual people I'm sad to not be working with anymore. But in terms of like.
00:44:19.43
Tyler King
If you just view everyone as a faceless, like we're playing business here with hypothetical people, though, I think the company has the right roles now more than it did at the beginning. Again, we replaced the serum coach. So that's like net, net out. Even I don't think we need a salesperson. I don't think that's the right like role for us to have. And I'd like as many developers as we can afford, but given where we're at revenue wise and stuff right now.
00:44:44.88
Tyler King
having a slightly smaller team and and building up a little more cash. I'll talk about the cash situation in a second. um Probably the right thing.
00:44:53.22
Tyler King
um And then, but yeah, like I mentioned, so two of our devs, I'd say went from like, more or less being in training to being like, they're still not senior level, but like, I can give them real projects and they can ship them.
00:45:05.86
Tyler King
And so net, I think our dev team actually grew in terms of productivity, which has been great, which yeah.
00:45:12.50
Rick
That's awesome.
00:45:13.83
Tyler King
And that, that brings me to the next thing, which is like huge year for the product. um The first quarter, or actually maybe the first four four to five months, we were like wrapping up stuff. So if you go back and listen to last year's, I'm kind of like, we've got a back to basics theme. like we've bitten having all we've We've been shipping stuff on the dev team, but we're working on the wrong things.
00:45:33.94
Tyler King
The first four to five months, but let's call it four months of this year, was like we'd already started and committed to a bunch of stuff the previous year before this shift. We had to finish it. So we ah shipped our like major redesign. We had a big feature called Book Actions. We had a lot of technical debt we had to fix. All that was good, but not like the key part the the key goal for this year.
00:45:53.50
Tyler King
um We shipped a bunch of what we call cup holders, these little features that are they're really just meant to improve the experience for people who are already like us, who are already using us.
00:46:04.05
Tyler King
We shipped a handful of those. But the big thing is two big features that are just like meeting baseline expectations ah for new people who are signing up. One of those is automatic email logging, so that if you send and receive emails, they automatically pull down into the CRM and get logged.
00:46:19.70
Tyler King
um And the second one being forms, which we've talked about ad nauseam on this podcast.
00:46:23.29
Rick
Yup. Yup.
00:46:24.86
Tyler King
um the but either yeah thank you Either one of those would be the biggest feature we've shipped in probably a decade, and we did both of them this year.
00:46:25.28
Rick
Congrats.
00:46:30.18
Rick
That's what I was going to ask. Like this is, this is like more than you've, like this, it sounds like this year you've produced more product than you have in the last decade.
00:46:38.39
Tyler King
I think it's ah arguably more in this year than the entire sum of the last decade, but certainly more than any individual year over the last decade, yes.
00:46:47.19
Rick
Yeah. Wow. Wow. That's awesome.
00:46:49.41
Tyler King
um Yeah, it it feels really good. um and
00:46:51.61
Rick
I'm very interested in, sorry, go ahead.
00:46:53.91
Tyler King
Well, I was just going to say, time will tell, but like i also it's partially how much we're shipping, and it's partially, there's no question email logging is an important feature for a CRM to have. One of my big regrets is when I look back in the past, I can say, oh, well, last year we did this big thing, but it didn't matter. So time will tell if this is true or not, but I think these will i think five years from now we're going to look back and be like, how did we not have these for so long?
00:47:16.83
Rick
Well, the big, the big thing here is like you have the ability to ship product now.
00:47:21.32
Tyler King
Mm-hmm.
00:47:21.85
Rick
Like that's a lever for you at a scale that you haven't had in the past. And so what that means, like you don't necessarily know what if these are the right ones, but if you can just continue this for another, as long as it takes to find the hit, like that's a very, very strong, like growth plan.
00:47:34.23
Tyler King
her
00:47:37.85
Tyler King
Yeah, exactly. So a big question here is, like does product matter? I think yes. But yeah, if it matters, then I'm feeling very good. An interesting side effect of all this is because the dev team is shipping so much more, it takes a lot more time to like design stuff and the product management. like i I've said I've been busy the last couple of weeks. And really, I've been busy the last couple of months, not not as busy. but I'm just trying to keep up with the dev team. like ah you know There's eight of them now. And i'm like I'll meet with one and look at their, like at any given time, a dev should have like a handful of projects planned out for the future. And I'll look at their timeline. I'm like, oh shit, you're like days away from being done with your last thing. I have to go find something for you, um which is awesome. like It's a great feeling to be like, we're shipping stuff that fast. But the result is my individual contributor life has changed a lot. like One of my big goals for last year
00:48:26.58
Tyler King
was to code more, there's no fucking way I'm coding because i've i'm just my hands are full just trying to get projects to the devs right now.
00:48:34.86
Rick
Yeah. I mean, do you have any, i maybe you'll speak to this on the goals. Do you have, are you, ah do you think that's a problem?
00:48:42.54
Tyler King
Mostly, no. I think the way it works, is right now, I feel a little like too many little things piling up. I think I need a ah minor version of what you need to do at windfall, which is like I'm still doing a bunch of stuff that I shouldn't be doing anymore, um either because maybe it doesn't need to get done at all or because someone else could do it. So there's some of that. But in a calmer, more like I get to think big picture about product, I would be pretty happy with I'm just a product manager. That's my job now.
00:49:09.78
Tyler King
I don't code. I think I can live with that. not Not I can live with it.
00:49:12.13
Rick
Cool.
00:49:12.67
Tyler King
I think I'm excited about that.
00:49:14.50
Rick
Cool. Yeah. What, what, what if you like, what if, what would you do hypothetically if you got to a point where product management was a full-time job and you didn't have time to do it?
00:49:26.40
Tyler King
um I mean, I think I would shed pretty much every other responsibility. Like at this company, I think having a good product manager might be more important than having a good CEO just cause like CEOs manage change and there's not much changing. Um, so I would probably try to shed other stuff, but.
00:49:45.34
Rick
you would you would You would try to do this as long as you you could without ah hiring someone to dedicate to this.
00:49:51.22
Tyler King
Yeah. Yeah. You listen to a lot of founders and they're like, you know, the the goal of a founder is to replace themselves. Like, so you can sell the business and so you can work less and all that. That's not my goal at all. I don't want to sell the business and I don't want to work less. So like, if I'm going to be working here for the next 30 years, the job I want is product manager. So yeah, I'm not going to replace myself there.
00:50:07.57
Rick
That's awesome.
00:50:10.77
Tyler King
um One thing, so I said we both had something in the last year's episode that we thought was over. Mine was Paddle, the paddle migration for our billing. We switched from Stripe to Paddle. Last year we had we had shipped it enough that new customers who were signing up a year ago ah would have been paying through Paddle instead of Stripe, but all our old customers were still on Stripe.
00:50:32.40
Tyler King
Around February-ish of this year, we migrated all our current customers to Paddle. and To say it's the biggest catastrophe in the history of the company is an understatement. um At this point, we made it. We're still using Paddle. I wouldn't switch away from it given that we've already done all the switching costs. and like the The argument has always been, i don't want to like I want sales taxes to get paid and that's the way to do it.
00:50:57.14
Tyler King
But man, it was an absolute clusterfuck. I think it was the most stressful period, especially for the customer service team. It was also a huge distraction for the developer. ah Our lead developer in particular kind of led the project.
00:51:08.77
Tyler King
Just bugs after but bug, after bug, after bug. There was a period where a bunch of our customers were getting double billed. Paddle didn't even notice it. And then even after we pointed out to them, they didn't like take it that seriously.
00:51:19.03
Tyler King
So we had to like escalate it to like the VP of something. And then he was like, oh, OK, I'll make sure we get on this. And it's like, you're a fucking billing company. And you're double billing our customers.
00:51:27.40
Rick
but yeah
00:51:28.93
Tyler King
We've been doing our own billing for 15 years. And we've never double billed anyone. What are you doing? Sorry, rant over. It was rough.
00:51:36.64
Rick
Yeah, yes, man. I'd be great business model if you can like be like fail completely at your core product and still keep customers.
00:51:45.20
Tyler King
at the core job.
00:51:48.41
Tyler King
I know. yeah I will say they were very responsive.
00:51:49.53
Rick
like
00:51:51.05
Tyler King
like we We have some like connections with high-level people there who are super attentive and responsive. and like When I talk to them, I'm like, that's a capable person who's nice to me. but Man, so the the experience was rough, yeah.
00:52:04.58
Rick
I need to figure out how to invest in this company. like they can't go They cannot fail, apparently.
00:52:08.67
Tyler King
Yeah, I guess. um It has gotten better. A lot of the bugs have gotten fixed and all that, but it was rough. um Moving on, one of the things I talked about a lot in the podcast was talk to sales.
00:52:20.04
Tyler King
which as a reminder for everyone, because I haven't talked about it in a while, it was like ah someone would come to our website and we basically had like ah a button on the homepage that said talk to sales and it would go to our sales guy who has since left.
00:52:20.91
Rick
a
00:52:30.40
Tyler King
But um that was showing promise. I would say, but but like the the question we had was, can we drive more people to that sales call?
00:52:40.74
Tyler King
Like if someone does that call, we have the bandwidth to talk to them and we have this whole customer service team who could also do it. Can we drive more people to do the call? When we first put on this talk to sales button, the people who clicked it and who scheduled a call were great leads. we It seemed like it was working. And so yeah, if we can ramp up the number of people doing this, this should definitely help. Basically, we were never able to do that. People either want to talk to sales or they don't. We immediately captured the people who do everything else we try. We spent a lot of time you know trying to put this offer in different places and whatever, none of it really worked.
00:53:14.29
Tyler King
So where we are now is we still, it says, I don't think it says talk to sales.
00:53:14.33
Rick
Hmm.
00:53:18.31
Tyler King
What does it say right now when you look at our homepage? ah It says book a demo that just goes to our customer service team. So it's still definitely an improvement before it was like you had to sign up what you could have booked a demo, but there's no offer to like sign up for a trial. And then once you're signed up, we offer a call. Now we're talking to more people earlier in the buying journey. It's a win, but it's a smaller win than I was hoping for earlier this year.
00:53:42.01
Rick
ah The other hidden one here, I think, is that your service team is is seeing themselves as a pre... like They've always seen themselves as like servicing the journey, but now they're like it seems like they're more attentive to a lead and converting that lead into a customer, which is an asset to the company um from a mindset perspective and then also like a capability perspective.
00:53:52.71
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:54:03.66
Rick
so ah Whoever's taking, I'm assuming you had one salesperson, that person's salesperson's leaving. Someone's gotta take these book of demo calls. If it's not a salesperson, it's probably gonna be your coach coaching team.
00:54:13.64
Tyler King
Yeah.
00:54:13.91
Rick
That's a good thing.
00:54:15.21
Tyler King
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And it it ties in, I think it was last episode we talked about the idea that product-led growth means you provide value to the customer before you monetize them. Traditional sales is you're like, hey, give us your credit card, and then I'll help you get set up. um There's actually a different job for it. right The salesperson gets the the money, and then they're like, OK, let me hand you off to your whatever account executive or whatever you want to call it.
00:54:39.20
Tyler King
to get set up. CRM coaches, like yes, they're talking to people before they buy, but their goal is to provide value. It's not to get their credit card. so It's still super consistent with product-led growth. It's super consistent with what a customer service person wants to do, which is help the customer not do sales. um so I think it's a good way to mesh. We have the reality that we need to go get customers, and but then we have like kind of our culture, which is we don't want to do sales.
00:55:05.06
Rick
Mm-hmm
00:55:07.30
Tyler King
Um, probably the biggest news from a business standpoint is the price increase happened. Um, we had 10,000 or something more than that 15,000 of our 25,000 ish 26,000 issue users were previously paying us $10 a month. Now they're paying us our normal price of $15 per user per month. This led to an $805,000 ARR increase in one month. That's pretty good. Uh, the big question mark is like,
00:55:35.88
Tyler King
What's our trajectory now? So basically this put us in a position we'll probably be, we'll probably profit three to $400,000 next year in 2025. That's after paying me and Bracken.
00:55:46.88
Tyler King
like That's like profit that's staying in the business, not like profit for shareholders to split. That's great. That's way better than we've way more profitable than we've ever been.
00:55:54.56
Rick
Thank you.
00:55:57.43
Tyler King
We also add about 100 to 150K in expenses every year just by giving employees raises and stuff like that. so like If we're not growing at all, It's a few years and then we're back in the red again if we're growing a little but not enough. It's still eventually will be in the red but it'll have a much longer runway if we're growing a hundred hundred and fifty k a year in revenue then we'll just stay where we are and will stay very profitable forever.
00:56:23.15
Tyler King
You'd think it would be easy to answer that question of, are we growing? But because this whole year, we've we were warning people about this price increase. And then we've been we did the price increase, and we got a lot of turns. We've lost users' net every month since the price increase. Is that because of the price increase? Is that unrelated? I have no idea what our growth trajectory is right now.
00:56:43.49
Tyler King
So yes, now the good news is one of my goals.
00:56:43.64
Rick
Scary.
00:56:47.23
Tyler King
Also, I'll just go into the goals right now. One of them was don't worry about growth until the end of 2025. Or I'm sorry that yes, that was my goal last year.
00:56:59.34
Tyler King
It's 2024. So a year ago, I said go two years without worrying about growth. So far, mission accomplished. Aside from what I just said to you, I basically haven't thought about our growth trajectory all year, which I feel good about. And that will be a goal for next year as well. is like I think we have a good plan for how to address growth, or at least as good as I can come up with. But it takes a while, so I'm just not stressing out about it. And we've got a ton of runway because of this price increase.
00:57:27.78
Tyler King
um So that was one of my goals. ah The second one was to focus on customer delight and from a product standpoint. And instead of building stuff that's like, oh, let's build an API so that we can find API partners and use them as a growth channel or whatever, just be like, let's build shit people want.
00:57:45.31
Tyler King
um Much simpler approach to product.
00:57:45.71
Rick
Yeah.
00:57:47.75
Tyler King
I think we did a good job of that. Kind of already talked about that a little. The next one was maintain stability related to the team and culture. Obviously, three people leaving is not stability on the team. ah But I think it ah culturally, actually, I think we strengthened things. So I'm i'm i'm calling that not not a total loss. ill I'll call that kind of like a middle middle success.
00:58:09.93
Tyler King
And then my final one, which is an absolute whiff, was protect coding time. um I want to average one full day of coding per week. I did go to Utah and spend 10 days coding up forms with Robert, but ah since then, I basically haven't written a line of code.
00:58:22.59
Rick
Yeah, that's 10 out of 52 is what that's 20% attainment.
00:58:27.31
Tyler King
Yeah, but like if you look at the trajectory, like I'm probably spending zero days coding in 2025, so ah yeah it is what it is.
00:58:36.18
Rick
Oh, man. and um what What about what about what what are your goals for 2025?
00:58:42.57
Tyler King
Yeah, so one is again to continue to not worry about growth. And I want to be, I just said this, but I want to be super clear about this. That doesn't mean I don't care about growth. It means I'm doing everything I know how to do. And so to, to mentally, I don't want to mentally tax myself when there's just nothing productive to come of it. Like I need to put another year in that that would have been about a year and a half. At the end of 2025, we'll be about a year and a half since we started this, like let's just make things people want. um I think it takes even more than a year and a half for this stuff to really kick in. There's a huge lag. But i I do think probably around the end of 2025, I would hope we start seeing something. But I don't think we're there yet. like The two big things, we just shipped this month. like Email logging and forms, we just turned on for new users. so
00:59:32.60
Tyler King
I think we've we need to focus on input, not on output, which means I'm just goingnna i'm trying going to try not to really pay attention to growth.
00:59:40.00
Rick
Well, good luck. um
00:59:42.34
Tyler King
I did it last year.
00:59:42.58
Rick
ah You're strong. Yeah, well.
00:59:48.16
Rick
Oh man.
00:59:48.25
Tyler King
I got to say, it went when every single month your bank account goes way up, it's a lot easier to not despair about the growth rate. We're making money right now in a way that we never have, which feels good.
00:59:58.21
Rick
That's good.
00:59:58.91
Tyler King
Yeah. um Next up, like we've got these the two big features, email logging and forms, even though they're both shipped. There's still work to do. you know Nothing's ever really finished. um My hope is by the end of Q1 2025, they're 100% tied off, and we're not really even talking about them anymore. And then I want to ship at least two and hopefully three more big things like that. The two that I definitely want to ship, I want to ship Kanban ah pipeline reports, which we've talked about, and I want to ship a native mobile app for iOS and Android.
01:00:32.09
Tyler King
um When I say native, it's like mostly going to wrap our mobile website. It's not 100% rebuild with native code, but people will be able to like find an app in the app store, download it, and yeah.
01:00:42.86
Rick
I think it's brilliant. Um, and I, I'm curious about the mobile app. Like, are you do you, do you have, I would love to follow that journey this year because, um, yeah aren't there lots of tools where you don't have to do a lot of effort to build the app itself?
01:00:55.87
Rick
You just like wrap it.
01:00:57.72
Tyler King
Yes. Um, and okay.
01:00:58.57
Rick
Okay.
01:01:00.53
Tyler King
Yes. So, uh, I'll talk a lot more about this later on, but the quick version. So a our mobile website, our our web app works on mobile, but it's like kind of clunky.
01:01:11.40
Tyler King
So a big part of this is going to be just making that better. When people say they want a mobile app, mostly what they mean is they mean the mobile website sucks and they think for whatever reason, an app will be better. And it's
01:01:21.41
Rick
So just just for context here, Tyler hates mobile apps. He thinks they're stupid. um
01:01:26.92
Tyler King
but Well, I love the open web. I hate the proprietary nature of native of native code.
01:01:31.66
Rick
Yep.
01:01:33.27
Tyler King
um Yes, you're right. I think the web is the best platform in the history of of technology, and we should be embracing it more than we do. But whatever, it is what it is. But our mobile web app isn't great, so we need to make it better. And then, yeah, we need to at least write some kind of native wrapper around it.
01:01:45.96
Tyler King
And I would guess certain elements of it need to be native. So for example, if we want to do push notifications, I guess technically web apps can do that, but I think we would want native code for that. If we want like ah facial recognition to log in, that honestly, I think the biggest thing people, the biggest practical thing people want from a ah native app is the web app, it doesn't matter what we fucking do. Safari just logs people out all the time. Chrome doesn't. I don't think it's a problem with our code. safari Apple hates the open web, and I don't know what it is, but it just Safari sucks.
01:02:17.51
Tyler King
and people get logged out all the time, just being able to like open it and be logged in. And if you're not logged in, use the face ID to get in. I think that alone is the big thing people want.
01:02:27.79
Rick
Yeah, I, I don't know what's, I think it I haven't really like reflected on why, but I have used mobile apps. I used to be the same as you. Like I would just go to the Chrome and log into the website.
01:02:39.81
Rick
I have proliferated apps on my phone for a convenience of login.
01:02:44.26
Tyler King
Yeah, I do too.
01:02:44.73
Rick
Like just because, yeah, like, yeah, yeah.
01:02:45.49
Tyler King
I use native apps. Don't get me wrong.
01:02:47.93
Rick
And, and, and, but like, what's the, what is like the main value? Like the facial recognition stuff is very, very valuable.
01:02:54.95
Tyler King
Yeah. Yeah. Let's you pull it up super quickly.
01:02:57.33
Rick
Yes. You search something on your phone.
01:02:57.78
Tyler King
So it'll still.
01:02:59.05
Rick
you yeah Like you go, Oh, I want to check something. I, you search on your phone. It pulls up. You don't have to go to like Chrome type in a webpage or I know, I know, I know.
01:03:05.53
Tyler King
Well, you can pin websites, but okay. Anyway.
01:03:09.78
Rick
but
01:03:10.20
Tyler King
Uh, yeah, I agree. I'm, I'm giving in, we're doing it. Uh, and then, so those are the two big ones, Kanban and mobile. And then I think we should have time for a third one. I think one other big one, and we've only got five on our list of like, if we have these five things, I think we will, I'll consider us caught up to the competition.
01:03:27.54
Tyler King
So I think probably by the end of 2026, we, we should be caught up basically.
01:03:31.67
Rick
what What are the um the the the ones aren consider that under consideration for that third bucket?
01:03:37.34
Tyler King
Yeah, sending email is probably the ah the most important. This actually, surprisingly, is less. ah Logging emails was the big concern, because like that was tedious. and Right now, if you click an email address in the CRM, it just opens Gmail or Outlook. So it works fine. But sending emails natively in the CRM so that you can have templates and like auto, you know that type of thing, that's one. ah Basic automations, like I move a contact from this status to that status in the pipeline. I want the i just want to automatically create a task to follow up or whatever.
01:04:04.72
Tyler King
ah That's the second. And then the third is like reporting question mark. This is one where every time we ask people what they mean by that, they don't have an answer. And so i I'm not even sure it belongs on the list. We are trying to do some user research and figure out what that means.
01:04:19.45
Rick
Well, I'll just, for purposes of having an opinion, I would definitely like to see you focus on the email piece. I think that combined with forms ah and templates could be super powerful.
01:04:32.15
Tyler King
Well, and automation. Yeah, the email plus forms plus automation.
01:04:33.54
Rick
Yeah, anonymous.
01:04:34.79
Tyler King
So like someone fills out a form. You automatically add them to the pipeline. They automatically get an email. though You need all three of those. But yes, there will be some powerful synergy. I used a word.
01:04:45.37
Rick
Yes.
01:04:45.69
Tyler King
um ah Yeah. Um, and then my final one is my final goal here is to reduce the set of things I'm responsible for. Um, this is partially, I know a kid's coming. I'm going to be, I get three months of parental leave, but I'm taking it kind of spread. I'm going to take a month all at once and then I'm going to spread the rest out over the rest of the year.
01:05:08.71
Tyler King
Which means like I will be working pretty much the whole year, but it'll be one day off or two days off a week. So I just can't do all of the things I'm doing right now. So that's part of why I want to do this. But also, kind of like we said with you at the beginning of this discussion, even if if you take stuff off your plate to free up time, even if you still spend this time on work, you can target it. You can channel it towards the more impactful things.
01:05:34.43
Tyler King
I think right now I'm too driven by what's at the top of my inbox and not enough by like, here are the big things that I can do that no one else at the company can do. So prior to my parental leave, which should start in April, I'm hoping to just like shed some of my responsibilities permanently.
01:05:52.76
Rick
Wow. Do you have a list of these?
01:05:55.16
Tyler King
No, and sorry. i um um probably just it probably You probably heard that as I need to delegate it. I think what actually more needs to happen is I just need to not do stuff.
01:06:04.43
Rick
Stop.
01:06:05.01
Tyler King
Yeah.
01:06:05.51
Rick
Yeah.
01:06:05.58
Tyler King
I think a lot of this stuff doesn't have to happen.
01:06:06.04
Rick
That's it that you totally. And and yeah the first thing is like, what joe do you want to shed? And then there's a second decision tree you of like, does anyone, does, does anyone need to do this? Yes or no.
01:06:16.02
Tyler King
Yeah.
01:06:16.20
Rick
And then it's like, ah do yeah who do I delegate it to? But like, um,
01:06:18.89
Tyler King
Yeah.
01:06:20.40
Rick
Yeah, that's, I'm going to be going through the exact same thing. That could be a thing. Like we should talk about that regularly on ourselves accountable to this.
01:06:24.64
Tyler King
Yeah. What did you stop doing this week?
01:06:27.26
Rick
yeah Exactly.
01:06:28.44
Tyler King
Yeah. Um, all right. We're kind of running up on time here. We've only got one thing left to talk about, which is our biggest worry you want to take on.
01:06:34.52
Rick
I think this is the most efficient recap episode, annual recap episode we've read.
01:06:37.79
Tyler King
Yeah. Yeah. We're crushing it or things are getting boring.
01:06:40.42
Rick
um
01:06:41.81
Tyler King
I don't know.
01:06:42.25
Rick
yeah ah Last year, like i would um I was ter terrified. I was in a pretty bad place ah when we were doing this episode um in terms of like the move and worrying about things. ah New kid six months within the first six months. um So I was very fearful that I wouldn't figure out how to prioritize and manage my personal health as a family. And as I've proven over the last 45 days,
01:07:09.44
Rick
I have put it like, this is not a problem. Like it was a, it was a point in time. It was hard. And, and so I kind of don't have that worry anymore. Um, and then my biggest worry next year, and we've talked about it a little bit is just like, how do we get JD help? And maybe that's the wrong question to ask, but it's like, how do we get JD to a place where we.
01:07:29.40
Rick
How do we get the business like like up health and JD to a place where it's default to live?
01:07:34.46
Tyler King
Yeah, like sustainable.
01:07:34.57
Rick
Um, sustainable. Yeah, that's it.
01:07:37.29
Tyler King
Yeah.
01:07:37.62
Rick
And, and so, uh, I'd like to spend a lot of time talking about that over the next couple of months with you and JD and, um, make, make sure that we're on a path there.
01:07:47.70
Tyler King
Yeah. Cool. I like it. Yeah, I don't think I have, I want to like vamp on that and say interesting things, but no, and we already talked about that. That sounds great. ah Cool. my My biggest worry last year um was that So again, we were ignoring growth and saying we need to just do this. We need to make these product improvements. That's what we need. So my worry was that we just wouldn't execute well enough. Like what we really need to do is close the gap between us and our competitors. I was worried that we wouldn't, I mean, I didn't expect to fully close it, but it's kind of like a, are they moving faster than us? I was worried that we could, we could improve, but we couldn't improve faster than our competition. So we would never catch up. Um, I'm not worried about that anymore. I think.
01:08:31.60
Tyler King
It's not that they're not like, you know, HubSpot and Salesforce. It's not like they're not adding stuff. There's just not that much needed for a simple serum. I'm confident we can catch up. So the execution concern is not there anymore. But my, my worry for next year is just an extension of this, which is the next step is okay. Is this plan actually correct?
01:08:50.24
Tyler King
Like if we, Oh, I wrote this wrong. If we execute the plan to perfection, if we build the features we want to build, like the input is all good. Will that actually lead to the output, which ultimately means growth. And we don't need like super, you know, rollercoaster or a rocket ship type growth. we We just need to add, you know, 10, 20 K ARR per month. And if we can do that, we'll be good. But like, can we do that?
01:09:17.05
Rick
Yeah, I like, well, first of all, congrats on addressing your worry. That was a big, I mean, it was a big accomplishment going from, I'm not sure if I can, connect yeah like, I'm not sure if I can execute ah or we can execute to not a problem anymore.
01:09:23.22
Tyler King
you You too.
01:09:31.44
Rick
Now we're working on the right things.
01:09:33.12
Tyler King
Yeah, honestly, yeah, let's both give ourselves a pat on the back here.
01:09:34.10
Rick
That's a strategy.
01:09:35.88
Tyler King
Like we had we we said last year, what is the main thing we're worried will not go right.
01:09:36.47
Rick
um
01:09:41.46
Tyler King
And both of us right now are like, nope, we're on top of it.
01:09:43.64
Rick
I get this, you know, at the, at the basic level, that's like probably the most important like input to goals for the per year.
01:09:49.74
Tyler King
Yeah, probably. Yeah, so we'll see. you you and And also, we should both, like of course, like keep doing it. You also need to keep exercising, and and Lessening Serum needs to keep executing on product.
01:10:02.62
Tyler King
So we'll ah well see how that goes, too.
01:10:03.24
Rick
Hmm. Exactly. Well, um, anything, any other final thoughts on 2024?
01:10:11.26
Tyler King
I don't think so. It's been been a good year for me. It sounds like it's been a good year for you. ah Well, a tough year at first, but like ah turning into a good year at the end, does that sound right?
01:10:21.82
Rick
Yeah, trajectory is good. Uh, we, have I'm on the, I'm on the up and up and I really just, I always appreciate you, um, your friendship and, um, I'm so glad that you're involved in leg up health.
01:10:23.49
Tyler King
Yeah.
01:10:33.72
Rick
Uh, and I'm also glad we do this podcast. like I look forward to it every, every week and, or every other week. And, um, so appreciate you putting the time in.
01:10:41.35
Tyler King
Yeah, i I feel the same way and I'll close with, I hope your whole life falls apart so you have no choice but to come work at Lesser Knowing CRM one day.
01:10:49.81
Rick
Thank you. That's amazing. That's the biggest compliment ever. Well, if you'd like to visit show notes or past episodes, visit starplast.com. See you next year.
01:11:01.64
Tyler King
See ya.