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Becoming sustainably human at work isn't a small undertaking. It often means letting go of systems and behaviors that don't serve us individually or collectively.
So what do we do? As individuals, as groups of folks, as leaders? How do we carve out space for our humanity while making sure we're not the only ones? How do we thrive in the workplace while not imagining we must be superhuman? How do we cultivate spaces that are generative and healing, creative and extraordinary?
I don't have the answers to those questions. And, to be fair, I don't believe one human can EVER have all the answers to those questions. I'm working through those questions every day.
This podcast curates for you a set of folks with an opinion worth listening to and sharing. So join me as I ask people I admire to share their wisdom with you in accessible doses.
Join me on my quest to become sustainably human at work.
Today, I get to welcome
my friend, Nic Strack.
Nic is a Whole Human Parenting
Coach, supporting parents to honor
and embrace the fullness of their
own and their child's humanity.
Their work is based on radical
responsibility and exploring one's life
through the perspective of the Six C's of
Bespoke Parenting framework they created.
The foundation of their work is
based on this truth: the relationship
you have with your defines the
relationship you have with your child.
Nic, I'm so excited you're here.
Thank you for having me, Liz Wiltsie.
[laughs].
So Nic, I asked you to come
here because I think there's....
Not only are there parents
in the workplace, obviously.
Yup.
But I think there's so much crossover
between the ways that we invisibilize our
own needs both as parents and at work.
Yes.
And so I'm hoping you can talk to
me about your Six C's Framework
and how you work it in real life.
Okay.
Yay, yay, yay!
All right.
So, to everyone who's listening, I'm
going to share just the Six C's and
I'm going to let y'all know that you
can find the accompanying questions
with each of the C's on my Instagram.
So the six C's are Compass,
Conditioning, Context, Competence,
Capacity, and Community.
And basically, I have that this for
me has been a really supportive....
I now visualize it as a pyramid.
It's been a really supportive framework to
support me in orienting myself to myself.
So like, "Where am I at?
What do I have going on in this moment?
What are my values?
What guides the decisions that I make?"
'Cause of the way that my brain
sorts information [laughs].
Like, to sort through different
information that I have about my present
moment experience with the intention of
acknowledging the truth of where I'm at
right now, and then also deciding, “Okay
given that, what now?” So, it's a tool
for self-awareness as well as a helpful
way for me to orient myself toward,
“Okay, this is where I am, what now?
What next?”
Mm-hmm [affirmative].
Help me with what that
looks like in practice.
What does that look like in a
regular interaction with you and
your four-year-old child, right?
Yes.
Is that right?
My four-year-old child.
Well, currently I think some of the
biggest flags for me of when I am
starting to get out of alignment with
my values will happen when I'm trying
to force something to happen, when I
feel...there's like a physical experience
that I get in my body when I am out of
alignment, when I'm trying to coerce my
child or manipulate them in some way.
All of the things that I get
up to that don't ... Basically,
that just feel icky in my body.
I have cultivated a practice of
being able to slow down in those
moments and recognize like, “What's
actually happening right now?”
A story that I tell sometimes is...
so Unicorn is my four-year-old child.
Last year, I don't know, they like threw a
bowl of cereal on the ground or something.
They were having feelings, they threw
the cereal on the ground and I was
just like, “Clean that up.” And I
got all like big and scary and like,
“Clean that up!” And when they wouldn't
I recognize "Whatever is happening
in me right now is not actually
about what's happening right now."
So I paused my interaction with them.
I basically stopped talking for
a bit so I could give myself
a little space to calm down.
And then I help them clean up
their stuff and I apologize
for getting all big and scary.
And later when I thought about that
interaction, I recognized that there
was a degree of my past coming into
the present of times when I had felt
unheard, unseen, unacknowledged in what
I was asking for from somebody else.
When they weren't giving me
that witnessing or they weren't
... Essentially, when they weren't
acknowledging my authority and doing
what I asked, I was like, “Well then I'm
going to try to control you even harder.”
There are like so many different pieces
in the C's that, that would touch on, but
that's a way for me to be like, "Okay,
this is the experience I had and what
influenced how I got to that moment."
And then not just stopping there,
but being like, “Okay, and what if
a moment like that happens again?
What kinds of different ways of
responding do I want to experiment
with?” Because getting big and scary
is not aligned with my integrity for
how I want to show up as a parent.
Mm-hmm [ affirmative].
So one of the things I know you
talk about a lot is sovereignty.
For folks who don't know what that
means or have an idea of like, “I
think I know what sovereignty is.”
What does it mean for individuals,
and particularly for parents and kids?
I'm still figuring out how to explain
my understanding of sovereignty in words
that actually align with what I have.
Words are so important to me.
So the definition that I use
is "self governing", where I am
sovereign, I am self-governing.
And I think of sovereignty and
responsibility as going together a lot.
I am self-governing and I'm responsible
for naming my wants and needs and
going after having them met, and
for attending to my own emotions and
my relationships with other people.
As it relates to sovereignty in the
parent-child dynamic, I think that a
lot of the ways in which mainstream
culture has perpetuated a squashing of
sovereignty when it comes to children,
or a disregard of it, or a bypassing
of it, it's in holding children as less
than, as incapable, as little beans
that need to be taught exactly how to do
things so that they could do it right.
As opposed to coming from this perspective
of "You are a brilliant, unique human,
you came into this world whole and
magnificent and innately worthy."
And what does it take for me to
show up in my own innate worthiness
and with regard for my full
humanity and also meet yours too?
With the added layer of, and you're
dependent on me to get your needs met.
And I don't necessarily celebrate when
you're throwing food at the walls, right?
[laughs] Just all of those layers.
All of these things are true at once.
Yeah.
The other thing that you mention that
I think has so much application in the
workplace as well is the idea of the
contempt of control or the contempt
of coercion, what that looks like.
Can you speak to that a little bit?
Oh, yes, I can [laughs].
[laughs]
A lot of lived experience with it.
So I love James-Olivia Chu
Hillman's definition of contempt.
They defined it as "being a disregard
for my and/or the other's power,
dignity, humanity, and sovereignty."
And so as that relates to
the contempt of control.
Often what's happening is there's this
phrase that parents say, which is,
“You're not listening.” And I have that,
that's not necessarily what's happening,
what I have is, "I'm not getting what
I want and I'm trying to make it your
fault by saying you're not listening."
And so there's this element of, when a
parent is trying to get what they want
and they're not getting it from their
kid, sometimes the impulse is to turn to
controlling the child to make them give
the parent what they want and perhaps
not as often acknowledging like, " Me as
the parent, I'm not getting a need met
right now or I'm not having a want being
carried through and what is my plan to
take care of myself in the face of not
having this thing be done by my child?"
So often I think that ... And again,
even in my own self I do this.
I'm just like, “Hey, are you willing
to ...?” So we use language of, “Are you
willing to.” I've been moving away from
demands in terms of how I communicate
with everybody in my life, but it's
just like, “Hey, are you willing to put
your toys away right now?” And if they
have a “no” then being like, “ Let's
talk about it because these toys will
be put away at the end of the day.
That's a part of how we do things in our
fam, and in the culture of our community."
And maybe they don't need to be put away
right now just because I want them put
away, or if I'm the one who wants them
put away right now, maybe I'm the one
who takes responsibility for doing that,
instead of imposing my timeline on you.
So there's just more space in that
to divest from the control of "my
timeline, my want, right now."
And to be like, “Oh my gosh!
You're a human with your own wants and
needs, and willingnesses ,and abilities.
And "What does it look like for me
to meet you in those and take care of
myself when you don't do the things I
want, but that in the grander scheme of
things, don't actually fucking matter."
Like the other day, they wanted
to eat this particular snack and I
didn't want them to eat it because
of the processed sugar that's in it.
And they were like, “I'm going to eat
it anyways.” And I was like, “Okay,
I'm just not available to you as a
resource to help you open it or eat
it.” And they were like, “Okay.” And
they figured out their own way and
they ate the thing and I didn't punish
them and we just went on with our day.
But that was like a first for me.
Often it ends up turning
into a battle of some sort.
Not a battle, but just the like, “Well,
no, I don't want you to eat this.
No, you don't get to eat this.
Okay, no, I'm going to take this
thing away.” Or like, “If you have
this now, then that's going to happen
later.” All that shit, when it's
actually just like, “You know, I pay
attention to the food that you eat.
I don't think that this is going to
be the thing that's going to set you
over the edge, and what's going to take
place in your body as a result of the
processed sugar, so fuck it, okay.”
You do you.
Yeah, pretty much [laughs].
[laughs].
I'd use that on some of my
friends sometimes because I
have a want to be on time.
Not everyone has a want to be on time.
And I have spent a lot of
my life getting just mad
...
Yeah.
... with people who don't want to be on time.
There was one moment where I
was like, “Okay, I'm leaving
this house at this time.
If you would like to ride with
me, you will also be leaving
this house at this time.”
[laughs].
“If you don't want to ride
with me, you don't have to
leave the house at this time.
That's fine.
Totally fine.”
Yes!
And I just was like, “Cool.” And it
like [laughs] ... Let it go, right?
Yes.
Great.
'Cause this is mine.
Like my thing is not everybody's thing.
Exactly.
It's that responsibility piece.
Yeah.
And so there's the other piece in
there where I think a lot about how
our legacies of things growing up,
how we were treated as children.
'Cause like again, workplace power
dynamics, a lot of our feelings
about how power dynamics play out
come from our childhood experiences.
And so I think your work is so
revolutionary in so specific ways, right?
Because you've got this idea that,
"No, if we imagine kids have all the
same sovereignty as anybody else,
that translates into what those kids
look like when they grow up, right?"
And even also what you look
like as a parent, but like
what those kids look like.
I mean, I'd ask me in 20 years [laughs].
[laughs].
What's your hope, though,
for Unicorn in this model?
What do you hope that Unicorn has
that maybe other people didn't?
In my case, a lot of it hinges on
what I didn't have that I have a want
for them to have if they want it.
And I think it comes down to a
recognition of their sovereignty,
recognizing that they're sovereign,
and ,whole and complete, and
magnificent exactly as they are.
And that they'd be able to
take care of themself in the
fullness of their humanity.
Like in all of the different ways
that they'd be who they are, and
they're going to make mistakes,
and they're going to have painful
feelings and they're going to do harm.
And just like all of these different
things that are definitely going to
happen, that they're able to take
care of themselves in the face of
that and make conscious choices.
But not necessarily that they always
will, I should ... More specifically
it's like, that they have the ability
to reflect and take a moment, take a
beat before they actually decide to
be like, “What am I up to right now?”
And then just build their life on the
decisions that they make [laughs].
[laughs].
So Nic, I ask everybody, tell me
what you're grappling with, or a
thing that you're grappling with.
Yeah.
One of many.
[laughs].
What's been up for me most recently
is laying out the landscape of the
many ways in which I avoid my own
responsibility, which I avoid engaging
it, and recognizing how deeply ingrained
my avoidance is in my daily activities.
It's been eye opening
and kind of torturous.
Only because I've self-imposed the torture
where I'm judging myself so hard for
it, which hilariously judging myself is
a distraction from my responsibility.
It is another way that I avoid.
So [laughs]
...
So many ways to avoid.
So many [laughs].
I'm familiar with many of them [laughs].
[laughs].
They're my friends.
Thank you.
[laughs].
Nic, so as I promised you, we would get
to a point where either we were gonna
talk for days or we were going to be done.
So thank you so much for being with
me and I very much appreciate it.
Oh my god, I love this.
Thank you.
Nic's currently in the process of
building out a community, Nic's Nook where
intentional parents and pre-parents can
connect with each other and with Nic.
The space will include longer
form posts from Nic, conversation
starters and prompts for reflection,
opportunities for community members
to create their own posts and more.
For folks who want to join the beta
test to co-create the community, you can
visit the link in Nic's Instagram bio,
or, in this episode as well to apply.
Applications are due by 9:00 PM.
Pacific on February 19th, 2021.
If you've enjoyed this episode, please.
Visit us at 4needs.work/podcast.
You can see transcripts, you can see
links, you can see everything about every
episode and ways to connect with Nic.