Challenging the CCC in SLP Jobs | Fix SLP Summer School Ep. 2

This Fix SLP Podcast Summer School episode breaks down why CCC requirements still show up in SLP job postings—and how you can push back. Dr. Jeanette Benigas and Preston Lewis, MS/SLP, tackle lazy copy-paste listings, leadership mindsets stuck in the past, and how real SLPs have gotten major employers to drop the CCC. Hear wins from Michigan, plus learn how to start the conversation with HR. Ready to bust myths and change your workplace? Subscribe and keep schooling the system.

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Creators and Guests

Host

Jeanette Benigas, PhD/SLP

Host of Fix SLP

Host

Preston Lewis, MS/SLP

Co-host of Fix SLP

What is Fix SLP: Advocacy & Accountability in Speech-Language Pathology?

Fix SLP is an SLP Podcast by Dr. Jeanette Benigas about advocacy, autonomy, and reform in Speech-Language Pathology. This show exposes credentialing gatekeeping and dismantles CCC requirements. Each episode equips SLPs with tools to reclaim their profession. Subscribe now and join the movement transforming speech-language pathology. Follow @fix.slp on Instagram and TikTok. Visit fixslp.com.

Unknown Speaker 0:03
Steve, welcome to the fix SLP summer school series, where we're schooling the system all summer long. If you're ready to challenge the status quo in speech language pathology, you're in the right place. Subscribe so you don't miss an episode. And if something fires you up, leave us a message on the minivan meltdown line at fix slp.com,

Unknown Speaker 0:22
grab your favorite summer beverage and let's get to work.

Unknown Speaker 0:26
Well, hello again, all you fellow fixers. I'm Preston Lewis. I'm joined today by Dr Jeanette Benigas, and we are continuing with our summer school sessions. Is that what we're calling them, Jeanette summer school? Yes, summer school is here, and we'll get caught up on some of the events of the week. But real quick, Jeanette, we kind of brainstormed about this summer school. Let's talk about because we did one of these pods last week. I did a horrible job because I had a huge technical issue, and Jeanette bawled me out, saying it was not very long, and I'm always saying it's too long, so hopefully we meet in the middle today. But what is summer school? Jeanette for the fix SLP crowd, last summer, we took a break. We took an eight week break, and we decided this summer we couldn't take an eight week break. We needed to keep going. But nobody wants to listen to Preston and Jeanette ramble for an hour. So we decided to do shorter episodes, hopefully around a half hour or shorter, 20 to 30 minutes. And what we thought we could do was hit on all of the hottest topics that we're seeing on social media that we have educated on before,

Unknown Speaker 1:42
but somehow people are still asking these questions. So there'll be shorter podcast episodes that you can share, that you can use to freshen up your information. It's a way to stay engaged with everybody. And so we decided to call it summer school, because we're continuing to school the crowd, and we thought it was fun. So in honor of summer school, I brought out my brand new summer mug with the green on the inside.

Unknown Speaker 2:10
I was waiting. This is the first day I've used it. Do you have one for every season? Yeah, I rotate them. That's your figure, because I collect mugs, which is the worst thing you could collect. So I have to limit myself. I've got my you've been there Starbucks series, which Preston has graciously sent me one from his state. And then these are Ray dun mugs. They come out with, like, new ones every week. So it has to be colored on the inside for me to even consider it. That's my limit. Those are harder to find. You know, I was just fascinated by the things that you and I have sent in the mail to each other. I sent you a coffee mug. You sent me some napkins.

Unknown Speaker 2:50
That has a meaning in the fix. SLP world is one of those goofy little prestonisms of smell my napkins. So Jeanette sent me some napkins. A special relationship. Your real life doesn't have to be working. No, no, it's very peculiar. Items in the mail of usually $20 or less. So who is this woman, right? And those napkins, those were special napkins. They were, we can't share what they were, but they they had a face on them. They did for you to like did. We'll leave it there before we get in any more trouble. So this week, it was a another big week. I keep telling Jeanette said, You're on fire. And it was a big week. Is in Michigan House Bill 4484 was presented at the Public Health Committee in Michigan State House, and you and Alexa were there, and wow, it went very well. I know we'll have a supplementary pod or a bonus episode that we'll discuss this, but it was a good day for fix. SLP, it was, it was so fun, and it was like the culmination of everything we've been working on. And so I don't want to give too much away, because I will say that Alexa and Michaela, both from Michigan, started this, I don't want to take credit for what they have done. They were inspired very early on in the fix SLP world. They did not know each other before we had state teams, we had something called slack, which was where people from different states could communicate, and that's where they met, and they started talking about the issues, and landed on Medicaid and started doing the work, and then I connected them with you, even before you were on the team and you were helping them. And then I was like, I gotta get in on this, because I'm also licensed in Michigan, and that's how the four of us kind of came to be as a little team, and Elizabeth was already helping out. So you guys just you stuck like glue. And so it was so nice to just be a part of that and open my mouth, because I've got a big mouth, but in a professional way, yeah, I didn't.

Unknown Speaker 5:00
Say Big Daddy Asha, while I was doing that, but it was, it was so fun, and it was so fun to see Alexa just do her thing and shine and just bring this thing home. So there's still a lot left to finish this up. And again, we'll save all the details, because I want to allow Alexa to kind of share it, since it was her baby, I just butted in.

Unknown Speaker 5:25
But yeah, it was great. It was fabulous. So we're going to try to record a follow up here in the next few days, and then you can listen for a bonus episode. It's great. We're still continuing to encourage people to visit fix slp.com, if you haven't printed out the CMS letter and sent that off to, I was going to say Washington, but I think it goes to like Baltimore, or somewhere close by, yeah, goes to Maryland. How ironic, right? I know. And this will be to a building that has people in it, and so you can print that off, sign that letter to Dr Oz, and this has to do with the CMS rules regarding CFS being able to bill for Medicare. As that continues to be a concern. Some companies are saying, Nah, forget about it. And Jeanette and I, you know, bounce that issue back and forth with each other. It is scary. And, you know, years past, I might have said, Nah, you know, and it's a company, and the NPI takes the Hickey on that, but in this kind of doji era that we have been in, I don't know that that's enough security for those CFS that are out there. It, it would have concerned me. And so rather than tell people, you know, oh, Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. You know, we do concur with Asha. We're urging caution there, but we're also urging action. And beyond just, you know, a petition, these are letters that show an action plan that we're going to begin to put in full force. And step two of our plan is coming up, and we're going to shift from letting CMS know that we're looking for a two year moratorium on this rule, and then moving toward visiting with our state licensing boards, visiting with legislators that are key in certain states. And that's it's going to be a lot of work, but it is work that has been overdue, hasn't it? Jeanette, yeah, and that's something I want to make clear, is that fix SLP is not here to do the work. I see that question a lot, what is fix SLP doing about X, Y or Z? It's not. What is fix SLP doing about X, Y and Z? It is. What are you the SLP, the clinician, the stakeholder, the OT. We got a message from an OT last night asking for help, which is amazing that we're bleeding out into other areas. But what are you doing in your state to make a change, and how can we support you? And I think what just happened in Michigan is the prime example that if you can have a little bit of motivation for something you're passionate about, we are going to jump in and get just as passionate with you, and we will help you fund it, and we will help you put it out into the world. But we're not here to tell you what to do. We're here to walk beside you and make it happen. So we need people in states who feel some kind of way about what's going on with CMS, and we will bulldoze that thing right over with you. There's there's momentum out there right now, and momentum is a great thing, because this week, I won't say which state, but there was a fixer that got together with a state senator who reached out to us this week, and that's a good feeling for us, because it shows that there is that, like you said, there is a momentum. There's a synergy of other SLPs out there that are saying, I can do the same thing in my state. I'm going to look at my connections. I'm going to see who I know, this fixer, perhaps, had a relationship and knew this state senator that reached out to us, and so we're excited to get a meeting on that, and it's in a state where we really want to do some great work, and that's what we're looking for, is to have people reach out to us. We will help with some of the guidance on that. But just like Michaela, just like Alexa, we want our SLPs to shine in these states and carry the ball across the finish line. Yeah, and that, that's actually the second legislator that's reached out to us, the one in Michigan didn't Alexa made that connection. But there was another state where the legislator directly reached out to us via email to ask for some help, and so we'll be circling back with him too. So yeah, things are moving. It's wild to me that at this time last year, we might have already started our break, and things were kind of dead in the fixed SLP world. And I mean.

Unknown Speaker 10:00
Our Instagram just hit 1 million views the other day in 30 days again, which is moving towards the kind of activity we see in fall. So that's so exciting, because fall is six months away, and that kind of leads us into our topic today, doesn't it? It does, and it's one that a lot of SLPs can take on at that granular level. Today's topic for our summer school is the CCC requirement with employers and job listings. And I have always often described this as really just copy and paste very lazy job descriptions. I think Meredith has told us before that there's a lot of this where people take an old job listing and they just churn it back out, and that CCC is on there. But I think it's this relic from days gone by, before we had universal licensure back in 2012 and it sounds ridiculous to say, but I think some people that don't live in our world don't understand that distinction, and it's one that we have easily been able to claw back when SLPs have pushed forward on it. Jeanette,

Unknown Speaker 11:07
I would add that, yes, copy and paste. But also, the leadership in some of these jobs is of an older generation who, quote, worked hard for their CCC, and we don't discredit that they did, because a lot of them didn't have a state license. I didn't have a state license when I went through grad school. And I am young, okay, I'm young.

Unknown Speaker 11:34
So I saw this happen in the home health company that I left a couple months ago, where the job posting actually said Asha membership preferred. And I asked HR, when I was there to sign everything. They just gave me all the paperwork I had already been hired, and I read everything before I sign it. And I asked the HR woman, I turned the paper around, I said, Can you tell me about this requirement? And she read it, and she's like, I'll be honest with you, I don't even know what that is. And I said, Then, why are you requiring or why are you preferring this then? And she said, I think we just copied it off of something. And I said, Okay, well, they acquired a company in southern Ohio, who had a much older SLP on staff that they kept on staff and they gave her a leadership role. And the next posting that went out for this company said CCC preferred

Unknown Speaker 12:36
so that came from her, who doesn't understand what probably at all what we're doing. I'm in Ohio where it's not required for anything at all. Employers are the number one barrier to practicing without the C's. And so I think that approaching HR or approaching the people who have the say in what goes out into the world can go a long way to getting that changed one way or the other, because look how fast that changed from Asha membership preferred to CCC preferred, right?

Unknown Speaker 13:13
So I think that this is something that man, if a couple 100 people took on across the US, we would see a huge change. And I'll say this because maybe we'll put it out sometime leading up to this, or maybe a day or two after we're recording or drop the episode. But I got an email. I People send emails all the time. I love hearing from you guys. I'm sorry it takes so long to get back to you, but I'd say in the last month and a half, actually, we've gotten multiple emails that Ensign, which is a large SNF company, has removed the CCC requirement. And you know what pushed them over the edge? I saw a copy of the letter that they sent to their employees. It was the CMS thing

Unknown Speaker 14:01
they said. We've been considering this for a while, and given the changes with CMS that show they're pushing decision making to the state level, we have decided to remove the CCC requirement from our job postings. That's huge. Select Specialty hospital is another nationwide company that has removed the CCC from job postings, thanks to our fixers, this was all fixers who have done this, because it's fixers who have let us know, hey, I was a part of making this happen. We're not doing specific wins, because it took a lot of people, probably nationwide, to push for these changes. But we'll have a post just we'll post the win about it somewhere. People know, but this is a result, two very large companies in healthcare that bill, Medicare, okay, two very large companies have now changed their requirements. Mm.

Unknown Speaker 15:00
Change, as I said at the outset, happens on a granular level. Sometimes it can be you talking to your existing employer. Sometimes it's having a conversation about maybe a job that you want, where you get in touch with the decision maker there, and you can say, look, I may not have a CCC, or maybe I won't in a couple of years. Why is this requirement there? Just like you did, Jeanette, but then sometimes it's just a conversation among colleagues. I spoke with my old Cfy supervisor that I had, and she called me that the other day, or actually sent a message and said, I let my membership and my CCC lapse. Now I'm getting all these letters asking for $300 she said, Am I going to be okay? And I said, Well, of course, you're going to be okay. Your state license is fine, right? And she said, Yes. I said, What are you worried about? She said, I'm worried they keep sending me these bills. I said, well, so did Columbia House back when you used to decide you didn't want to rent movies anymore, or blockbuster or whoever. It's just a letter in the mail. It might as well be the damn timeshare company asking you for another fee. It's not part of your license. Who defines who you are. So my own Cfy has said adios or supervisor said, you know, see you later. But that was a conversation among peers. We have had it this week on our socials, where we have people come in and just drop total BS about Wow, this insurance company, XYZ response. You know, they require this. And every time we ask these people, what are you talking about? Please send us an example. They just disappear and go quiet. But those are the conversations that we have to have, because it's really, as we've said before on previous episodes, Jeanette, it's myth busting, yeah, and I've never been a person who's very good at sugar coating or I don't beat around the bush. It's part of who I am. I've become much better at it as I have matured, but I'm still not great. I am very black and white, and I've been criticized for this a few times, for my presence on social media. But honestly, listen, once you cross 40 you don't care I don't care my position, and my mission is to make sure that there is correct information on the internet. That's like, my personal mission not fix SLP, but Jeanette mission is to correct misinformation when I see it, because that's how we've landed in this place for a bunch of topics, is people spreading and sharing the wrong information. And so when I see misinformation online, if we if fixed. SLP, gets tagged, or I get tagged personally, I will tell the truth. I'm not rude about it, although I've been called rude, but I will just plainly say the truth. This is misinformation. Here's the actual information. Or this actually isn't true, because X, Y and Z, and I always have sources for what I say, and so when we call these people out, the one that you're mentioning, they that person just deleted her comment because we were right. So the emperor has no clothes, yeah, so we will you said it best present. I'm going to bring it up. Our younger listeners are going to have no touch point for this, but it's like you said last night, and I had already thought it, which, again, we're on the same wavelength here. This one time at band camp, right? This one time at band camp, somebody had to retake all of their classes to get their CCC back. This one time at band camp, I had to pay back dues to get my CCC back. Those things might have happened. Listen, I went to band camp. Stuff happens there, okay, but it only happened once, and things are different now. So we live in 2025

Unknown Speaker 18:54
That's right. So thinking about talking with employers, I'm going to try to put myself into the mind, into the shoes right now of our listeners who maybe are seeking a job at a public school, or they're currently in public school, and they know that that requirement is listed on their district website if you're in their place. Jeanette, how do you start that conversation? I would say, Hey, I see your job posting. I have X amount of experience, or I'm interested in this population, because this is why I would be a good fit for this job. However, I see that you have the CCC requirement. I wanted to learn a little more about that. Why do you have that requirement? Can you tell me more? See what they say, and that will guide your next steps. If it's something like my job, where they say, Well, I don't know. We just copied it, I would say, Okay, well, if you don't mind, I'd like to provide you with some information on what that is.

Unknown Speaker 20:00
Is and how that plays a role in our state. And then you can give them a side by side comparison of the CCC and the state license. And a lot of times, a lot of times you are going to be able to say it's harder to maintain my state license than it is the CCC, simply because the CCC is a three year CEU cycle, and your state license is typically a two year cycle, meaning you are getting more CEUs in your state, depending on how you take those CEUs than you are for the CCC. You could make that argument very easily. A lot of other times, there's other things like I mentioned in Michigan. So you can show them a side by side comparison and say, I would really like to apply for this job. Would you consider me without the CCC? I have chosen not to pay for this external, proprietary product. It doesn't diminish my license it. It doesn't mean I'm not competent. In fact, I'm I'm just as competent because I graduated from an accredited university that has the same requirements as the CCC, and see what they say. And that leads me into the next topic I wanted to talk about today, before we wrapped up, was we are all about action. Our new website is getting pretty close to being available to launch. We are holding off on that because we want state specific resources in every state, I'm going to get emotional because when I think about our new website, it is so beautiful. It is everything I dreamed of from the minute fix SLP started.

Unknown Speaker 21:50
I had a dream of supporting states and having an interactive website that people can use. And

Unknown Speaker 21:58
what we want is when you go to our new website, when that launches, there will be a map on the front page, and you will be able to click your state, or any state, and get everything you need right there. The information about your state is going to live there. It won't link you to our Google Drive. It won't link you to a spreadsheet. It won't link you to someone else's website. Everything You need will be right there, and we will still have links to the regulations supporting what we're telling you, but it'll be a one stop shop, and with that, will be your customized employer resources and what I would like to see is a resource for schools in your state, a resource for healthcare in your state, a resource for private practice in your state, almost like a one sheet that's a side by side that shows this is Asha. This is our state. Print that out. Hand it to your employer. We are waiting to launch this website until the fall, because all of those things need made, and I do not have the capacity to make those. My team does not have the capacity to make those. We do have a good handful of volunteers who volunteered to help make those many months ago, back in the fall, but a lot has happened, and I don't want to say that I've dropped the ball. I think I'm just spread very, very thin, and that was something that I had to put on the back burner because there were other fix SLP issues and topics that needed my attention, but in the next few weeks, we will be reviving that, and we are going to need people to help us make those resources.

Unknown Speaker 23:54
I have to make a tough decision, because we're not going to hold out forever.

Unknown Speaker 23:59
It's possible that we will launch that website with states that don't have resources, because we can't do it for every state, and we also don't know the intricacies of every state. So we need people who are practicing, who can fill in templates in Canva. You don't have to have a paid Canva to do that, but who can fill in templates and help us make those things. So if you're interested, you can email [e-mail]

Unknown Speaker 24:28
and you can say in the subject, or in the body I live in, or I'm licensed in XYZ state, and I would like to help make resources for the education team, and we have someone monitoring that they will get you on a list, and then as soon as I am ready to get that going, we're gonna go hard. We initially wanted the teams to make the templates, but Elizabeth and I have decided, just for consistency, we'll go ahead and make those they will be ready. And.

Unknown Speaker 25:00
But people in the States, in different settings, are going to have to plug those in and make them people have been finding success now with what we already have, which is just a letter. A friend of the podcast, Brooke Richardson, very beginning of this movement, wrote a beautiful letter, and that's what people have been using to educate their employers so you can head to fix slp.com

Unknown Speaker 25:25
there is a tab that says, educate your employer. We have the tools for you to make a difference. And people are making a difference. They are. What do you think Preston, is there anything else that we've seen regarding this topic, that's a barrier for people. When it comes to the

Unknown Speaker 25:45
CCC, I think that the barrier for me is fear. Sometimes that fear, to me is it's a it's kind of a toxicity that exists within us. And

Unknown Speaker 26:00
I think that there's another way to look at this, which is whether you're trying to advocate for a job, or maybe you're currently in a job, and you just want to talk about your company's job listings, you are taking some agency and how things are going. You're demonstrating the ability to ask questions, to show that you are thinking outside the box, and you're not just somebody who's signing notes every day and just billing and if you are looking for that job, it shows that you are a proactive individual. Everyone worries that I'm going to get labeled as this troublemaker, as this person who's stirring the pot. I think you're just saying I'm modern. I am somebody who's a change agent, and if an employer doesn't find value in that, then that may not have been the kind of employer that you could have grown with in the first place. And maybe it tells you a little bit about that job. It's sort of a harbinger of the future. So for me, it goes back to that fear that exists with all of us. It just kind of keeps us that way. And that fear, I think, is kind of the byproduct of that paternalistic thinking about how we got started in this profession, with the way we were kind of ingrained from graduate school days that we all have to kind of go down this single little file path and follow this little yellow brick road and get this little certificate, and that's who defines what we are. And boy, were we kind of told wrong on that and everything has to go back to mommy and daddy. No, it's about you. It's about your growth as a professional and as a clinician, to take the things that you learned and to grow from it individually, and to get your own style, to get your own acumen, to build your own reputation, and you're just not something that's labeled with the same damn label that everybody else has.

Unknown Speaker 27:48
That's so good Preston, that's so good, and I would encourage you to do that, not just for your employer, but anything that's on your heart or in your mind, even not just in SLP, but in general, like, the desires of your heart are there for a reason. You were built for something, for a reason. And stepping into that, when you finally, like, open the door and take the mask off and step into it, it is a powerful thing. And I think that I am the prime example that you can look to for that I have been a quote leader in this field for a decade. Spaced retrieval is my topic of choice. That is what I researched. I never expect that anyone knows who I am, but I came out of the gate, out of my PhD as the expert in that that area, I kind of went backwards, you know, I wrote a book at the beginning of my career, not at the end. And it wasn't uncommon for Asha to call on me with questions or or for educational reasons. I was asked to do an article in the leader. I've traveled all over the country, teaching at state conventions. I have taught for many CEU platforms on this and all the while, I sat back and I watched what was happening in this field. I was a lurker. That's what I called myself. I lurked online for a very long time, and I had a lot of opinions and a lot of thoughts, and I kept them to myself. I didn't open my mouth, I didn't join the conversation, and I was quiet, and as soon as I chose to open my mouth and speak,

Unknown Speaker 29:42
this is what happened. And so I knew we needed to have a place for advocacy to run through in this field that was lacking. We needed an organized place other than Asha, because until fix SLB.

Unknown Speaker 30:00
He started, the only place for advocacy to run through was Asha or your state membership association. It was deep in my heart, and it was little. I just thought for medical right? We need this for med, SLPs, there was a much bigger plan. We needed it for everybody. And now here we are, 1 million views on Instagram just over summer, just this month, you know, a podcast has hit the top 100 business chart, and people are changing lives. I opened my mouth to speak. The people who needed to walk beside me showed up, and now we can't be stopped. I could go away tomorrow, and this thing isn't going to end. This is a train that is speeding down the track now, with or without me, and I would venture to say that our team has forever changed this field of speech pathology, and we're only going to keep going. So my question is, what are you being called to do? What is deep in your heart? Maybe that's changing your employer's requirements. Maybe it's changing the education system. There are so many things in this field that we need to change. Preston and Jeanette can't do it. It's in your heart for a reason, and we can help you do that. So we're going to wrap up. I challenge everybody to start stepping into that calling on your life and do the thing.

Unknown Speaker 31:25
It'll go how it's supposed to anything

Unknown Speaker 31:28
else? Preston, no, I pastor. Benigas coming out past Pastor, I know, and that's, that's what I was going to say, is that your father was a preacher. And there are those moments that I just start to smile. And is one of those again today, where you do see your father coming out in you, and I think he would be very proud. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to tug at your heartstrings there, but I hear that ability in you, but it's an ability to be passionate about a thing, and your passion for this field is evident. I think your students would have attested to that. Your colleagues attest to that. I attest to that. It's just, it's a lot of energy, folks, I've said it before. You have no idea what it's like to be on the receiving end of text messages from Jeanette Benigas. Is a 24, hour, seven day a week marathon, and it's just random strings of thought. It really is. And the thing of it is that the more I'm around this person, the more I just become to admire you every day, my friend. Thank you. And sometimes you come home for a vacation and there's a package on your doorstep with napkins inside that have someone's face on them.

Unknown Speaker 32:42
Yes. All right, let's wrap it up. All right, so we will be in touch with a bonus pod soon. It may already have dropped by the time we put this in there, but I can't wait to visit with you and Alexa about that soon. All right, guys, I let Preston say it. Last week, episode 84 was the only episode someone else has said this, but we'll see you guys next week. Thanks for fixing it. Thanks for listening to the fix SLP podcast. If this episode help you feel more informed or empowered, take a second to leave a five star rating and review. It helps more SLPs find us fix SLP runs on $5 sustaining partnership donations that small monthly support pays for everything behind the scenes, including our website, legal fees and advocacy work. Want to be a part of it. Join [e-mail]

Unknown Speaker 33:32
enjoy the sunshine. Stay scrappy and we'll see you next time you.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai