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Imagine if you had a backstage pass to go behind the scenes and learn the secrets that worked for veteran coaches who’ve been right where you are today. That’s exactly why we created Coach Factory, a podcast for coaches at every level who are seeking to elevate their practice.
Guests pull back the curtain on their coaching journeys to reveal how they approach coaching, how they run their business and work with clients, why they do things the way they do, and what’s worked. We also flip the script to talk candidly about obstacles, challenges, and what they’ve tried that didn’t work, so you can avoid making the same mistakes.
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Tracy Candido: I think that, and I’ve been trained to know, that we are all creative, resourceful, and whole people. So that phrase might sound very familiar to some of the coaches listening, but I intrinsically think that we all have value. In that not only do we all have something to offer, but we all have* the opportunity to make an impact. And it’s up to us to make an impact that represents how we want to live in the world.*
As a creative professional, you are a very curious person, but often we don’t hone that curiosity. We don’t know how to harness it. And so what you’re doing is you’re employing your very deep, innate curiosity. Which is why I love coaching creative professionals and creative people, because curiosity is like a prerequisite for becoming a coach.
Shawn Hesketh: That’s Tracy Candido (https://www.wavemakercoaching.com/), a certified coach for creative professionals, and it’s her own curiosity that led Tracy to take on the challenge of coaching others to see the value of their work. Welcome to the Coach Factory Podcast. I’m your host, Shawn Hesketh. Today’s episode explores the unique challenges and processes of coaching creative professionals.
Tracy’s first step for coaching creatives is understanding why her clients undervalue their work.
Tracy Candido: Well, I think that when we identify as creative people, something special happens. I think that creative people often feel sometimes misunderstood. I think sometimes it can feel a little lonely to be creative. We often have really, really rich inner worlds. And culturally, I find that with a lot of my clients who are creative professionals, we aren’t really so valued as kids when we’re creative.
Sure, there’s the being a good artist, or being proficient at piano, whatever you can think of as a little kid leaning into their creativity. But being creative also ties with it a certain set of values. And I see this as a pattern with my clients; values like connection, and learning, and communication. Things like heart and trust.
And when we are brought up in school, we’re just told to sit there. At least my generation. I’m on the cusp of millennial and Generation X. And we were told to be quiet, and to look at the blackboard, and sit forward.
Oftentimes, the most creative people don’t have a ton of impulse control, in the best way. Because we are coming up with ideas over, and over, and over. And we’re great at brainstorming, we’re great at that visionary part. But when we’re kids, that might mean that we turn and talk to our partner more, and we’re chatty. Or we are not following the directions the right way, or we’re not giving the right answer. And we’re being really expressive.
And in my generation at least, it wasn’t always so easy to fit in, in that way. And sure, we all find our people. And hopefully, we’re embraced and accepted. But a lot of times having a rich inner world**, and being emotional and sensitive in this way, that I think comes along with being a creative person, we can carry with us some of those critical things that we were told as kids. And this is sometimes where I feel like that feeling of being misunderstood comes in.****
Shawn Hesketh: _That sense of being misunderstood, and the struggle to fit in, are experiences that most creative people can relate to. And often that leads to a certain amount of insecurity, or imposter syndrome. Even for artists like Joel Weldon (https://www.ultimatespeaker.com/), a professional voice actor and coach whose voice you may have heard.
Joel shares how, even with his years of experience, the very act of creating or performing is inherently vulnerable.
Joel Weldon: I started out as a musician many, many years ago. And I was touring the United States with a couple different acts. We actually did some overseas stuff, concerts, and I love music. I love the power of music. I love what music does to us, right?
It’s like from the time I’m a little kid, I’m going, ooh, I get chills with certain soundtracks, or certain songs that just make me feel. Well, as I’m getting older and I’m in my twenties and thirties, now I become a songwriter. One thing leads to another and pretty soon I am speaking into a microphone, and I’m selling Toyota cars in the northwest.
So I’m the guy on the ads for Toyotas, for Eastern Washington, Idaho. And then it starts to grow. Pretty soon I’m doing two or three states of Toyota. Then I pick up an account called Rosetta Stone. Life began to kind of change a bit. No longer was it music, now it was more speaking. So I was doing that for a long time.
The reason people use my voice, and I’ve discovered this through a whole bunch of training, is that when people hear my voice, certain things happen. They don’t consciously think about my voice. It just happens. My voice is able to wrap certain messages with a certain emotion that people connect with.
Now, it hasn’t always been that way. I had to learn how to do this stuff. And coming from a northern Minnesota background, I was from a Swedish family that was just pretty straight-ahead. We’re not too emotional. And then moving to Southern California, and now I’m touring with this Armenian guitar player, and his family is the exact opposite of my family. They’re like, “Oh my gosh, who would ever think,” just over the top all the time.
And I would think, if I was immersed in that situation as a kid, because I wasn’t used to it, my whole life would’ve fallen apart. But then pretty soon I’m realizing that the power of emotion has a huge bearing on how people hear your message, how they hear your instruction.
Now, if you’re a coach for creatives, this is right down your alley. And you know as well as I do that, as artists, we tend to be somewhat insecure. Because as an artist, I’m expressing these deep parts of myself. Whether it’s art, or music, or an advertising campaign. Whatever it is, you’re trying to connect with people. You’re presenting these deep parts of yourself, and you’re vulnerable. We all start there.
So we all get this sense that, I really want people to like what I create. I want them to like it. And sometimes you want them to like it so bad that you let imposter syndrome take over.
Shawn Hesketh: Everyone wants to feel included and appreciated for what we do. So it can be hard to articulate your value as a creative while also dealing with those critical voices, especially the ones in our own head. That’s where coaching comes in, as Tracy explains.
Tracy Candido: I think that we don’t always realize that we have value because of these critical voices that we may experience, as we go about our everyday lives and especially at work. We also might feel like we don’t have value because there are people around us in our working world that might trigger us in certain ways, that might make us feel less-than.
Sometimes that’s overt. And sometimes it’s because of certain values that we have that aren’t honored by other people, and we end up feeling unfulfilled or unsatisfied, and therefore we don’t have value to offer or an impact to make because we haven’t found a place that is supportive, or a people that are supportive, or connect with the values that we have within us.
And I realize that I’m talking about values in two different ways here. The value that we bring and the impact that we want to make, and the values that we hold. Values meaning the aspects of ourselves that are non-negotiable, and the ways that we need to live our lives.
And so if I’m not able to lean into this value of connection, I might feel like there’s not an opportunity for me to bring value here. Sometimes if that happens long enough, or enough times, I might start to feel like I’m not valuable, because I’m in an environment where I’m not leaning into my desire for connection.
Another reason why we might not feel valued, or like we understand how to be valuable, or that we do have value, is because of what I was talking about with being a creative kid, having that creative spirit, having a potential sensitivity or an expressiveness that we may have heard critical things about. And so many of my clients who are desperately creative start seeing this binary of black-and-white opportunity to bring value.
Well, if the way I’m supposed to bring value is by doing work that is not very creative but will earn me all of these external incentives. Or I can throw that all away and lean into my creativity, and eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches every night because I will never make anything of myself.
And true, our culture says that creativity is important, yet we don’t reward creative professionals enough. I am a firm believer in that. But also, these creative professionals are living in this black-and-white world because that’s how they have been told that they can bring value or not. And so they just believe that their whole lives.
Shawn Hesketh: That kind of black-and-white thinking is something both your clients and you as a coach will face. And it’s become an important topic in the field for Tracy and many others.**
Tracy Candido: Imposter syndrome is tricky. Because it’s become, I think, a buzzword that many of us use to mean, I don’t think that I am enough. Or deserving to ask for what I want, let alone get what I want. And so many of us that are part of marginalized communities or have marginalized identities are the ones that are coming forward and saying that they feel like they have imposter syndrome. And really, there are gatekeepers to our culture that allow us to believe this.
So I think that imposter syndrome is cultural, and then also I think it is the buzzword for that fear and doubt that we experience as part of that critical narrative that we have about ourselves.
Shawn Hesketh: Imposter syndrome can come from outside cultural sources, but it can also come from creatives themselves. Joel shares some advice he received that helped him and his creative clients to break through the cycle of imposter syndrome.
Joel Weldon: There was a time when I was doing voice work, it was really early on in the voiceover career. I was online with a client, and to me it was a really high-profile account. And they’re directing me from New York City. And I get on this directed session, and there are probably four people in the room on the other side, and I’m reading the script as if I’m presenting this amazing product.
I remember feeling very nervous, and this is really not unusual at all for those of us that perform. And you’re a coach, you do perform. But I remember feeling so nervous that it was like I was sweating bullets. And it may not have been real obvious, but I’m like, oh, man. It was tension in my voice, tension in my presentation. Because I was nervous, I wanted them to like what I did.
It’s a big account, it paid me a good amount of money, and I’m scared that they’re not going to like it. And guess what? They didn’t like it. They didn’t like it. It was like they could feel the tension. They could feel the fact that I was more concerned about what they thought of my performance, which is kind of the nature of the beast. But I was more concerned about what they thought of the performance than what I’m trying to do.
What is my mission? My mission is, man, I want this client to be really happy. I want them to sell a zillion bottles of this drug, or whatever it is you’re selling. I want them to be happy. And if you can get to the point where, this is a challenge because that whole thing fell apart. They never used me again. That account disappeared, it was gone. And that happens now and then.
It may happen to you. Maybe you’ve got a story just like that where you went, yeah, that happened to me. Right? What happens then for me was, I had a friend of mine. And they challenged me and said, “Listen, your number one mindset, you have to care about your client. You have to care about the message you’re giving your client more than you care about what people think of you.”
That is a really tough one, man. Because we want people to like it. There’s a balancing act there. I want to prove myself, I want them to like me. But on the other hand, I want them to succeed.
Now, if I want them to succeed more than I care about what they think of me, guess what happens? Suddenly it’s like you give your best work. You’re invested in your client, you’re invested in this person you’re coaching. You are imparting this information, knowing this is going to help them so much.
And if that can be your attitude going into it, the imposter syndrome just seems to melt away. And especially when you start seeing a success and somebody goes, “I got it. I did it and it worked.”
And you go, “Yes.”
And the next person, yes, it worked. Yes, right on. You start seeing it work. Wow. That’s when you know you’re in a spot you’re supposed to be and you’re caring more about your client than about yourself.
Shawn Hesketh: But how do you help your creative clients reset and break free of imposter syndrome? Tracy has three steps: identify, act, and evaluate.
Tracy Candido: So my framework is aligned with what many coaches have been trained to do. It starts with understanding your identity, and generating awareness around who you want to be and who you are becoming, in order to understand what it is you want. What your result ultimately you desire. And then we’re starting really small in taking action to, what I call, create small experiments with radical intent. Some coaches say small but powerful action.
Where we go out in the world, or clients go out in the world after generating awareness around who you are, who you’re becoming, what it is you want, and then taking action and trying something new that you wouldn’t have tried on your own. And coming back to a session to evaluate. And talk about what happens now? What’s going well, what’s not going so well? What might it mean? What have you learned, and what do you know to be true about yourself?
We keep generating awareness around identity, understanding of what it is that you want to happen, what result do you want to have? Taking action, doing small experiments with radical intent, and then evaluation and learning about what it might mean.
So as we do this process over time, what happens is you build trust with yourself. You gain confidence over time. So I heard somewhere that confidence is not a result. Confidence is not the destination. Confidence is the embodied knowledge that as you continue to make an effort to do something that you find is difficult, that you can create the things that you want to create.
Shawn Hesketh: As a coach, you often focus on building up your client’s strengths. And yet it’s in the struggles that you often create the most growth together. Joel shares how he leans into his client’s strengths and weaknesses, and he highlights the importance of getting to a couple of wins early.
Joel Weldon: When you’re coaching individuals, especially with a new client, they want the magic bullet. They’re paying you money, they want that magic bullet. So your responsibility, especially when it comes to one-on-one coaching, if you’re doing one-on-one coaching, it’s really, really important that you do an evaluation of who they are and what they’re capable of.
For me personally, if I’m coaching them on voice technique, I want to hear any recordings, any podcasts, any YouTube, anything they’ve done. Whether it’s on camera, whether it’s in a live situation, I want to eat that up. I want to analyze where they’re at. That’s going to give me a really good indicator of their strengths, what they’re really good at, and also their weaknesses. So you’ve got two different sides.
And obviously the strengths I want to encourage, I want to build them even stronger, but the weaknesses, those are the problem areas.
And when you’re coaching a client, I always tell them, encourage first. Don’t land on the negatives first. Always tell them ahead of time, “Wow, you’re really good at this. This part is really excellent. Man, I’m so excited to work with you.” And these parts over here that you’re coming to me for, we’re going to work those out. To the point you’re going to feel strong all the way across the board.
If you start doing that with a new client, and especially with your first session, do your homework ahead of time. Have them send that stuff to you. If it’s an entry evaluation, a survey, whatever it is you’ve sent them first, do your homework. Figure out where they’re at, what their strengths are, and what their greatest needs are.
And I would also encourage you, aim for a couple quick victories. So you’re going to have the people that, they’re strong in certain areas. And they’re really bad in a couple areas over here, and then they’re somewhat bad in these areas. Go for a couple wins early, because it really helps.
Especially you who are creative. If you go for a couple wins and you’re able to accomplish that with your client, they’re going to be ecstatic. I had a client that just came to me shortly. They’re politicians, and they came to me for some advice on doing interviews and on camera. And I could see really clearly that they needed a lot of help.
The one thing they were really good at is they were knowledgeable in their area, but the one thing they were really bad at was being able to express that expertise as an expert. They had, oh my gosh, you’d listen and go, they don’t believe a word they’re saying. They don’t believe what they’re talking about, and I feel very, very insecure about trusting this person with my vote.
And as a politician, that’s the last thing you want. You want to come across as a coach, you’re knowledgeable. So in that case, I went for a couple wins. I gave them a couple strategies early, and the very next session, two weeks later, “I used them and they worked. It was incredible.”
I’ve heard it so many times. When you go for a win early, one or two wins with your client, wow, it’s going to spur them on for the next even more difficult task. You just lit a fire underneath them. Now, watch it go.
Shawn Hesketh: Sometimes your greatest asset as a coach is being creative yourself. And if you don’t consider yourself a creative, Joel has some great advice that just might challenge that notion and help you connect with your creative clients.
Joel Weldon: When it comes to a creative coaching a creative, there are special things that happen between us. If you’re a creative person. Now, how do I define a creative person? Being a creative person. I tell people who don’t consider themselves creative people, I say, so, does someone else write out your conversation for the day every day when you wake up?
No, of course not. It’s foolish, right? What happens? You’re assembling language, assembling what’s creative. You’re choosing your words. You are a creative person, whether you know it or not, and you’ve never really enhanced that part of you. I don’t care if you’re teaching people how to argue in a courtroom, those parts of creativity are very much alive in you. That’s considered your part of creativity.
Now, listen, there are people that are incredibly creative. And we tend to be considered, we’re labeled creative according to the, we create things that people enjoy. Whether it’s something visual, whether it’s audio, whether it’s a campaign like an advertising campaign. Whether it’s a book, you might be a writer, maybe you’re encouraging writers.
All those creative endeavors, you really need to know, yourself, what makes you tick as a creative. And then you’re doing that same thing. You’re imparting those same bits of wisdom that you have used to corral your creativity, to enhance your creativity, to embellish your creativity. You’re using those same tools to be able to impart that to your client. It’s a huge thing.
And you could steal some of that stuff too. It’s like, you’re a creative. Well, I’m not creative enough. Then do some other things. Stretch yourself out.
But that whole idea of creatives coaching creatives, man, we can relate on levels that a lot of people can’t, especially those that are squirrel creatives. Because every other second we’re, oh, hey, whoa, what do you think of that? Then it’s a matter of, how did we get to the point where we could actually corral these ideas floating out here and bring them to a point of being productive? That’s our big challenge, right?
So share how that happened with you. How did you corral your creativity and make it productive and make it work for you? Because that’s what’s going to happen with your client.
Shawn Hesketh: As a creative and a coach. You may have your own feelings of imposter syndrome, and that’s okay. We’ve all been there. Tracy has a tip: find your community and grow.
Tracy Candido: I think one thing I would say to coaches who are feeling really doubtful and fearful, to know that you are not alone. I think that this industry is very confusing. And when you are designing your specialty, if that’s what you want to do, choose something that you love. And that you are on a mission to support, and that you would do every single day forever.
Because that intrinsic motivation to keep going will always be there, and you’ll always want to get better. Because you care so much about the community that you’re supporting.
Shawn Hesketh: Finding your goals, and your client’s goals, is no small feat. But it makes all the difference when it comes to moving forward and pushing past the black and white.
Joel Weldon: So the imposter syndrome monster is going to stick around. And the reason you have to be aware of him, you have to be aware of the monster and say, all right, I’m not going to let this monster take over for me. You go back to what is really important to you, and that is concentrating on your goal.
What is your goal? Your goal is to watch your client grow, watch your client grab a concept and run with it. You’re concentrating on that. That immediately puts the monster, the imposter syndrome monster behind you. You have no power in this situation. If you let the monster come in, oh my gosh, I’m getting short of breath. I’m really nervous. How am I going to deal with this client? And they’re going to know that I’m really nervous.
When you’re starting out, you basically just do the best you can with a mindset that says, I care about you as a client. And go, I’m a little nervous because some of this stuff is new to me. I don’t want to confess that too much. But the stuff that I want to teach you is stuff that is dear to me, and I’ve known it for a long time.
So you can even sometimes just carefully admit, you know what? This is a stretch for me too, and it’s okay to be a little vulnerable. But again, you’re still the expert, so don’t lose the reins. Don’t lose the baton. You’re not handing the baton over and saying, “Well, I’m nervous. Here it is.”
No, you’re saying, “I want you to win this. I want you to get what I’ve got, and we’re going to get this through together. And sometimes I might sound a little shaky or nervous, but we’re going to get through that together. Including me. I’m still growing.”
Shawn Hesketh: And on that note, thank you for joining me for this episode of The Coach Factory Podcast. And huge thanks to Tracy Candido (https://www.wavemakercoaching.com/) and Joel Weldon (https://www.ultimatespeaker.com/) for their insights into some of the challenges and strategies for coaching creative professionals.
This episode of The Coach Factory Podcast was produced with the support of Come Alive Creative(https://comealivecreative.com/). To hear more episodes, get the show notes, and learn how to start, run, and grow your coaching practice, visit CoachFactory.co