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Join us, feminist coaches Taina Brown and Becky Mollenkamp, for casual (and often deep) conversations about business, current events, politics, pop culture, and more. We’re not perfect activists or allies! These are our real-time, messy thoughts as we make sense of the world around us. If you also want to create a more just and equitable world, please join us on the journey to Messy Liberation.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:01.154)
Morning!
Becky Mollenkamp (00:03.414)
Good morning, happy day after the VP debate to you.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:06.03)
Yeah, yeah. mean, notice I didn't say good morning. I just said morning. I, you know, actually I have a lot of thoughts about the debate. have a lot. Well, let me let me backtrack. I have a lot of feelings about the debate. My thoughts are a little discombobulated right now. So since I'm, you know, recovering from quite a quite a wild week, but
Becky Mollenkamp (00:10.104)
is this so I guess that's your hint at what's to come from you. can't wait.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:35.617)
But yeah, so I'm just gonna let you kick us off, so. Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (00:40.704)
Okay, well, I can keep us on track on thoughts because I took notes and you can give us all the feelings and I won't lie. I already have some ideas of some of yours because I was watching on threads last night as you were posting and I was also posting. So I have a little, a little hint of what you're talking about. I think that we should start with just kind of hook people in our like the thing that stands out to you the most. What was the moment? I know what I think the world thinks it was, but I'm curious what you think was sort of the moment that will be remembered.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:52.811)
Yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (00:59.009)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:05.665)
Mm-hmm.
that will be remembered by everyone or just by me? Okay, okay. So I think there are two, well, excuse me.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:13.909)
I'm sure you! Let's go with you!
Becky Mollenkamp (01:20.204)
Maybe we can we start with, hold on, can we both agree? Let's see, we're gonna just say what we think is the moment that the world will remember. And then how about we each give our own personal, like the thing that was, so do we agree that the moment that seems to have been pulled out the most and that most people remember is that towards the end, the kind of gotcha moment where Tim Walz says, did Trump lose the election in 2020? okay, all right. That seems to be the moment's been.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:28.48)
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (01:39.254)
Did you lose? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's what I was thinking. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (01:46.338)
pulled out, but I get the feeling maybe that's not your moment. So what was your moment of the night?
Taina Brown she/hers (01:50.705)
My moment of the night was, it was towards probably the last half of the election. And I had never seen JD Vance speak before on purpose. It was just like, have no interest in giving him any of my time or energy other than what is absolutely necessary, AKA the debate. And so, I wasn't as familiar with the way he seems to litigate.
during his like when he's speaking, right? He definitely comes across as a really good litigator, right? And so there was a moment where towards the end where Tim Watts was talking about us having to move away from housing as a commodity and stop thinking about housing as a commodity that can be bought and sold in order to create an affordable housing structure in order to
I don't think he was talking about housing the houseless. I think he was talking about affordable housing, which is an interesting point that that always gets left out of the conversation, right? Housing the houseless is all about affordable housing for the middle class. And everybody thinks they're middle class, which is another conversation for another day. they went over to JD Vance for his response to Tim Walton.
excuse me, his response to Tim Walz on that. And he was like, I agree. I agree we need to move away from housing as a commodity. And it was like a half a second. Like if you blinked, you would miss it. But in between that sentence and the very next sentence, he quickly like did this thing where he like looked over at Walz and had like
this sly, slimy smile just like literally for like a microsecond came across his face. Like it was such a quick response. It was such a quick like micro expression that again, if you blinked, you would miss it. If you go back and you rewatch it and you go to that moment in the debate, you will see it. And it was in that moment where I was just like, okay, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (04:12.476)
He's really gross. you could tell if you noticed it, you could tell that he was proud of himself in that moment for how he was manipulating the narrative. And I knew that that was his character, obviously. I just had never seen it for myself. And that was the moment where, like, I will never forget that moment. Never forget that moment. It's like...
the snake just like very quickly showed its head and then just like tucked itself back into the suit. And I was just so creeped out by it. So completely. Like it reminded me of like if you ever watch like true crime documentaries or shows like Criminal Minds or like Law and Order or shows about serial killers, Like Mindhunter, right? Things like that.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:54.027)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:10.671)
Like there's always a moment where like you start to like the way that they build narratives and shows like that is like they want you to feel some level of empathy for the villain. But then there's always a moment where like the evil side of the villain comes back out and it just like gives you the willies. Like that's what that moment was for me. And so because I was like he speaks really well like he's
you can tell that people will think he's charismatic, like if they that they will easily buy into his bullshit if they don't know any better because he comes across as charismatic, he comes across as very eloquent, he comes across as very empathetic if you don't know any better. But yeah that was, god it just creeped me out so much.
Becky Mollenkamp (05:59.53)
I had from the very beginning I posted on threads that I think he's the sleaze the like sleaziest sleaze bag of all the sleaze bags and sleaze bag land like he is so slimy and gross and he totally reeks of used car salesman where I guess I could see some folks who are easily manipulated I don't want to make those folks sound like they're better they're they're naive or vulnerable or whatever the right like a kinder word for that
kind of person is, but I can see where they might get pulled in by that. But he pretty quickly gives away his slick, sleazy, grody thing, I thought. He did a lot of like side eyes to the camera. It was so gross. I've seen a lot of memes of that today. Okay, well, so the moment, it's funny, because I'm also going to pick something about Vance. It's not my like favorite moment, as in I loved what they were talking about. But I will say shout out to the two women who were moderating.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:29.005)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:39.215)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:47.641)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:57.356)
Oops, hold on, have to just ignore that. I forgot to put on my do not disturb. The two women moderating were amazing. So we had Margaret Brennan and Nora O'Donnell. And in particular, I was really like, I've always actually sort of had a mixed feelings about Margaret Brennan and the way she hosts things on her on the Sunday morning show, Meet the Press, not Meet the Press. What's the CBS Sunday morning? Anyway, the CBS Sunday morning.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:09.816)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:16.647)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (07:24.836)
Yeah, I know what you're talking about, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:25.836)
political show that she does and that makes feelings about her. But boy, boy, did she show up last night and really made me happy because they had been told explicitly by CBS the agreement was you cannot live fact check after the ABC one where David Muir and I wish I could remember his cohost, Angela Space. She's just not a Nicole. Thank you. I'm sorry. She's she is just not I'm not familiar with ABC News folks. But anyway, they had done a lot of live fact checking and
Taina Brown she/hers (07:44.62)
Nicole something, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (07:54.904)
that was not permitted this time. was made very clear. Well, for a while leading up to this moment, I noticed it was kind of fun the way Margaret's way of sort of fact checking would be like in the re in the rebuttal question, she would ask the other person. She would basically fact check without it being a fact check, right? She would work in the facts into the rebuttal, which I was like, you're so good. But there was this moment where she just straight out fact checked about.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:07.3)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:12.385)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:20.236)
the illegal Haitian immigrants in Ohio stuff that Vance was talking about. And it was the moment where he lost his ability completely to pretend he was that slick, cool, I'm better than, I rise above kind of guy. And he turned into a baby. Like really, it was just like, hey, the rules said you wouldn't backtrack. And like, he got really upset. And then he ended up having to cut his microphone. And I absolutely love where Margaret Brennan's like, you can keep going, but
Taina Brown she/hers (08:23.383)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:32.801)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:39.231)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:49.804)
They can't hear you. We've cut your mic. And I just sort of felt like one, I loved watching him turn into this big baby about it. And because it was just then became for anyone who wasn't sure or didn't know that they weren't doing live fact checking. And that moment, it was really clear for all of them. he could be lying and they're not allowed to fact check it. And so and he's the one who wants that. Right. Like it became that I thought it was really cemented. And I also thought it was for so many women we could relate to that moment of like
Taina Brown she/hers (08:50.912)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:09.377)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:19.221)
Thank
Becky Mollenkamp (09:20.12)
that we all wish we had to be able to just to push mute on a man. Right? Like, can't you just feel it? Like you feel it your body like, my God, if I had the power just to hit mute and no one had to listen to your bullshit and your mansplaining and you're continuing to push back and you're arguing like, right. Yeah. So that was one of my favorite moments. Okay. So let's go through some of the issues because we want to, I know we're trying to stick to time today, even though I know we could rant and rave forever. We wanted to get this out today. So.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:24.618)
my god. Yes.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:32.864)
Your tantrum, your tantrum. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:50.572)
They started where I have a feeling right off the bat. went from your feelings probably were in full force and may have set the tone for how you felt about the rest of the event because the first issue of course was about Israel now and Iran and Israel going into Lebanon and Iran now retaliating and just this like the debacle that is happening. Anyway.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:59.584)
But
It did.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:15.904)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:18.209)
Well, I have lots of feelings too. And obviously my feeling though, honestly, was less of anger and more of, I don't know, was it resignation, frustration, disappointment, not even disappointment. It was just like, I had this feeling of like, yeah, okay, yeah, that's, yeah, well, it says nothing new to say there, you know, we're, right where we've been. So I guess for me, the, wasn't as much emotion in that as, which is sad because it tells you how like,
Taina Brown she/hers (10:18.591)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:29.14)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:34.142)
Yeah, here we go. Here we go.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:39.633)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:46.998)
what they're doing is winning. They're just is working like in some way they're trying to just wear us down like, well, this is just how it is.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:48.511)
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. When they asked that question, I was like, fuck, here we go. And then as soon as Tim Walz opened his mouth and was like, well, we know this all started on October 7th, I was like, fucking A, like, here we go. The fuckery is coming in right out the gate, right out of the gate. And that narrative is just like...
One, it's a very obvious like dog whistle and talking point that's scripted, right? For politicians who want to show their allegiance to the imperial state of the empire of Israel, right? Like because Israel as a whole, like they're not a nation, right? They're trying to create an ethnostate, which is a human rights violation.
and beyond any international legal laws, right? Just like ethically and morally is just a human dignity violation, right? Like, how can you say just us and no one else and then decide you're going to unilaterally like take over an entire region, not even like one country, but now an entire region, right? Which we could argue has always been the plan, but,
So that, was just like, I can't even listen to the rest of his response. Like I have to walk away at this point, because I'm just, I'm done. And he didn't even answer the question. He did not even answer the question, if I remember correctly. And then when they pivoted to JD Vance, he didn't answer the question either. And so it was just a lot of grandstanding about the support for Israel and about how October 7th was such a horrible terrorist attack and...
yada yada yada and it's just like lies like just flat out lies flat out just manipulation by both of them and I you know I I don't know much about Tim Waltz but from a little bit that I've seen over the past several months he seems like a highly respected and highly regarded individual like not a highly respected politician
Taina Brown she/hers (13:13.047)
which that translates over into his, you know, how he operates as a politician, but just as a man, like he seems like someone of high integrity. And to, I understand the position that he's in to have to contribute to that narrative, but it was also just very disappointing to see someone who is running on this premise of having so much integrity just like lose it.
all in that moment, right? Like it was just like, it's gone. It's gone.
Becky Mollenkamp (13:46.762)
Yeah. And that's that reminder to the like, you just can't be a politician and maintain your integrity to there is, I think, a very much a ceiling on how hard far you can go on politics and have full integrity. It's just not possible, which is frustrating. I mean, because we see it even with like, you know, the Bernie Sanders and the AOCs and the and, know, with Cori Bush, she's now lost her seat partially in large part because I think she did maintain her integrity and.
Taina Brown she/hers (13:58.371)
Absolutely.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:07.204)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:11.62)
Yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:15.33)
Look what happens. You can only get so far. I think we should bring up because it's so timely and this is going out today and it's very much making the rounds on social media related to this particular topic around what's happening with Israel and the genocide, the war, the colonization that's happening with them. And so author Ta-Nehisi Coates was on CBS mornings. It's interesting because it was also CBS, which is where this was hosted. And I'm sure most people have seen this video and so much
Taina Brown she/hers (14:32.324)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:37.89)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:44.664)
kudos and praise to him and how he showed up. But if you haven't seen it, go watch it. I'll link to it. The morning host, which include Gail, Oprah's bestie, and then a guy who plays football. I'm sure he's more than that, like Nate. Yeah, and I'm sure Nate's great, but like, yeah, he's also a football player. And then I think the person who is maybe the most, perhaps the person who has the most credentials around journalism, I could be wrong because I know
Taina Brown she/hers (14:53.882)
Nate, Nate, yeah, we watch it every morning.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:12.448)
Yeah, he's from Baltimore. He's from Baltimore.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:13.164)
Gail also, but Tony. And I see, OK, and I do I believe he's Jewish from what he said in the interview, so I don't think I'm incorrect there. So they were grilling. He was really Tony at the other two folks. The other two people of color in the room didn't speak. And I don't know why or what happened there, but they sort of left Tanehisi here to himself to deal with this very much the American rhetoric.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:28.708)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:37.636)
it.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:42.444)
the American narrative being thrown in his face about what's happening over there. And Ta-Nehisi basically, you know, sort of accusing him of extremism. Yeah, because of his belief that genocide's not okay. And ultimately he handled it so well because he came down to my value set is that genocide's never okay. Like, period.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:52.598)
Extremism. Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:05.274)
if it's okay for you, like...
Becky Mollenkamp (16:09.034)
Yeah. And I do think in the end, sort of made, you know, and they ended with Tony being like, well, come over for Shabbat or whatever it was. And it was like, OK. But it was really uncomfortable. It I think represents what so many of us who have and far more so, to be clear, for folks who don't have as much privilege as I do, who are speaking out on these issues, on this issue and having this in your face being told all the ways that you are bad and wrong and this the because he really was
Taina Brown she/hers (16:19.172)
Thank
Taina Brown she/hers (16:25.796)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:29.988)
Thank
Becky Mollenkamp (16:38.722)
painting him into this corner of looking like he's anti-Semitic by having this Jewish person who is grilling him and saying these things. And I just think so many of us could relate and I was really proud of how he handled it and he shouldn't have had to be in that position.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:42.118)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (16:52.12)
Right, right. So we watch CBS News in our household and we love Gail and Tony and Nate. They're the trio that we watch every morning and then on the weekends it's a different set of reporters. They're just, they're so much fun generally, like even when they're talking about devastating things like, you know, Hurricane Helene or, you know, every time they talk about the genocide in Gaza and in that region.
There's always a slant towards Zionism, right? Which we expect from mainstream media here in the US. And I did not watch that segment because I was sweeping because of COVID. So I'm sure my wife watched it because that's the first thing she does in the mornings is put on the news. Because inside she's a boomer, even though she's a millennial.
But I saw reactions about that on threads and on Instagram. I am just so, I'm so disappointed in how that kept trying to be framed. And a part of me is like, no, Tony, no. What are you doing? But then also with like Gail and Nate, like just kind of.
really taking a backseat. Because if you've ever watched them in action, Gail is like, she's a bulldog when it comes to journalism. She will not let a story go. She will not let someone not answer her question. She'll be like, OK, but the question is, she will go back to that. so seeing that happen, I wonder if there was like,
I'm almost 100 % positive that there was some kind of behind the scenes conversation that happened beforehand about how personal that might have felt for Tony. But I don't think that excuses the behavior on camera. And so there's a lot of, in that situation, in that setting, there's one, a lot of power dynamics, because you have a white man who
Taina Brown she/hers (19:13.124)
probably does have the most credentials when it comes to journalism, right? But then you have two co-anchors who are black, who have their own set of experiences when it comes to journalism and just their professions, right? But whenever you throw white people and black people into the room, the power dynamics just automatically shift because of the way that people perceive white people and the way that they perceive black people.
regardless of how many credentials they have behind their name. And then to also just put a black man in that position to be grilled by this white Zionist, right? Like that's all clues point to Zionism for Tony DeCoppo, right? So to put him in that position also, there's a power dynamic there. And it was just really disappointing. It wasn't.
unexpected. Like I'm not shocked by how that encounter went down. Like we know that most mainstream media is gonna have a Zionist slit. It's not gonna tell the whole story. It's gonna decontextualize what's actually happening. It's gonna say this all started on October 7th, right? So it wasn't shocking to me that that happened, but it was personally disappointing because as a household that
religiously, right? No pun intended, watches CBS Morning News like literally seven days a week. It's just like, and who are, who are big, we're big fans of those three people. And so, and I've seen them talk about the situation over there for the past year at this point. And there's, I was talking to Jordan actually yesterday about this Jordan maybe someone that we both know.
and about how like I try to give people the benefit of the doubt for as long as possible. Right? And so in this situation, the benefit of doubt is they're getting there, right? Like they're slowly inching their way into really talking about this in a full contextual, with a full contextual analysis. And that interview was like,
Taina Brown she/hers (21:37.474)
a huge step back and it's like, okay, no, now this is a pattern. Now this has become a pattern, right, of the integrity of their journalism in terms of how they're approaching this subject. so, and then when I get to that point where I'm just like, okay, it's clearly evident that this is a pattern that they do not intend to break, then it's like, okay, you're cut off. Like, cannot, I can no longer stand by and watch this. And so that's kind of where I was or am with that.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:02.294)
There. Yeah. Well, there's nowhere you can go. None of the mainstream news sources. They're all toeing the same line. The only place that I really at this point feel like I'm getting. Unbiased or maybe it's even biased, but it's biased in the in the direction of hey, genocide sucks for my news is a podcast called the majority report, which I will also link to so.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:09.733)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:29.488)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:29.78)
it for people who are interested if you haven't listened to it. It's Sam Cedar who's the host and Emma, can't remember her name is the co-host. Anyway, they have taken a very hard line on what's happening there is genocide and it's not okay. And they're really talking about politics through that lens, which is really nice to find a spot, a place where I can feel like, there's journalists who are who are not afraid to speak up, but you can't do that and be on CBS morning news. It just doesn't happen.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:48.783)
Yeah, you get blackballed. You get blackballed. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (22:59.744)
Yeah, yeah. And I think most of us, I just, again, I feel like it just so much of it spoke to that experience of also contextualizing the problem of what's going on with Israel, which is, you know, Tony, in that moment represents Israel, which is there is this identity that we hold that is very much a marginalized identity. But we also have to acknowledge that most of us, not all, but most of us hold another identity that is not.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:19.49)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:23.63)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:29.528)
And that is an oppressor identity. And unfortunately, what I see happening very often is, which happens all the time, by the way, same thing with white feminists, same thing all the places where people will latch onto the marginalized identity when it serves them in that moment and overlook or pretend like look away from the oppressor identity I hold. And that is such a problem. Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:42.71)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (23:48.837)
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay, I just want to say one thing about that. I think also what happens there is like people, sometimes people assume that they cannot hold more than one identity at a time, right? They feel like that is too complicated of a stance to take. And they're like, how can I be the oppressor when I myself am oppressed? Like that doesn't make any sense.
And it buys into this false narrative that we are fed from an early age about you are either one or the other, but you can't be both. And that is just absolutely not true. And I just want to say to anyone listening right now, if you feel that way, not only is that harmful to you and harmful to other people, but what it's doing internally is you are fucking limiting yourself to your own potential, right? So it's this.
Outside of the conversation of oppression, by saying you can only exist one way and not another way, you are limiting your actual potential as a human being to exist in this world. And so, because what that means is, now you can only exist as someone who works a nine to five and doesn't own their own business. Or you can only exist as a mom and not as a friend, right? And so all that stuff like...
your brain, the way your brain processes that information, it spills over into every area of your life. And so I just want to throw that out there for anyone listening. Don't fucking limit yourself. You can hold multiple truths, multiple identities, multiple whatever at any given time. Like you are complex enough of a person. Complex, not complicated, complex of enough of a person to be able to do that.
Becky Mollenkamp (25:38.016)
Yeah, and also one more person to follow leftist lawyer. I think it's the leftist lawyer, but I'll link to it and show notes on threads who is she's Jewish and she's anti Zionist and is very clear that shows very clearly I can hold on to multiple identities and in fact is also trans, which is another part of her identity that if you know shows up in like ways like she's able to say, yeah, I hold on to I have two very oppressed identities and.
I recognize that again, as we've talked about in the past, my whiteness supersedes all of those and I need to acknowledge that in these moments. So anyway, okay, moving on because now I'm worried we only have like 15 minutes left and we've talked about one of the issues. So let's run through the others and just talk about some of the key things that came up for us. So the second thing then was climate change because they're talking about the flooding, which by the way, my heart, I'm sure yours too, goes out very much to everyone. I know people in Asheville. I'm sure you maybe know people in that area too and it is just traumatic.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:12.968)
Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:17.47)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:25.564)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:32.265)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:33.388)
That was what was the impetus for them talking about climate change. My note that I wrote, because I wrote some notes about each of these, was basically Vance's solution is drill, baby, drill. The solution to climate change is to create more energy production in the US. In no way did that make sense. And also, he never admitted that climate change was real. Any notes about climate?
Taina Brown she/hers (26:41.66)
Almost.
Thank
Taina Brown she/hers (26:48.544)
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I will say he also said that we have the cleanest energy in the world. And that is not true. Impact.org fact check that on their Instagram. So that's another resource for you to follow. They do a lot of fact checking after debates or just in general. And so that's not true. We do not have the cleanest energy in the world. And I was just like, he...
He never admitted that climate change was real. As a matter of fact, one of his main themes throughout the entire debate was, don't trust the experts. Despite there are many years of experience in schooling, don't trust the experts because they don't know what they're talking about. So yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:32.834)
Just trust Trump.
He also said that the majority of solar panels were made in China. And I also saw a fact check on that, that 80 % are made in the US. So there were just a lot of lies, but there's nobody checking him until she did, which was really hard. okay, so next, great. We now look how quickly we went through that one. Number three, they talked about immigration. Now this one we may take a moment on because the theme, think the other big theme besides our trusty experts from Vance was, if there's a problem, let me just blame it on immigration.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:44.328)
my god.
Taina Brown she/hers (27:48.028)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:00.571)
Thank you.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:04.118)
Hey, housing prices are high, blame the immigrants. There's too many drugs, blame the immigrants. School shootings, blame the immigrants. All night, everything kept coming back to blame the immigrants. And I think it was, I mean, I know it's because that's the one issue where they have been really controlling the narrative and are winning with people in the polls. And so there was a lot of that going on.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:06.758)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:20.565)
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. And it wasn't even just blame the immigrants, it was blame the illegal immigrants. Right, right, right. And he said that there are over a million illegal immigrants who are committing crimes. Impact, fact check that. It's less than 700,000.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:31.234)
Well, sure, because he can't blame his wife!
Becky Mollenkamp (28:47.064)
He also said there were 25 million illegal immigrants. saw a fact check on that, that it was less than 15 million.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:52.612)
Yeah, so just one lie after another. at some point, you have to, even if you're a conservative, you have to be like, wait, this one group of people is responsible for everything? That's giving them way too much power over what's happening. Illegal immigrants, immigrants in general, do not have that much power over what happens in this country.
Right? They usually, a lot of them who are coming here from the South, the Southern part of the globe, don't have money to buy up these homes. They cannot. They can't apply for any kind of loans. Yeah, yeah. They cannot get loans. They cannot, they literally cannot vote. They do have to pay taxes if they earn a wage, but they don't.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:37.472)
And if they're illegal, they cannot buy a home. It just physically can't happen.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:50.831)
participate in any of the like political legal processes, whether that's.
Becky Mollenkamp (29:55.672)
think that's something a lot of people don't know. Most of them do pay taxes.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:58.827)
Yes, yes, yeah, absolutely. They do pay taxes, but they can't vote. They can't get scholarships for education. They can't apply for loans for education or anything like that. So it's a tired narrative. It's a really tired narrative that anyone with two minutes in any given day can quickly look up and see that that is untrue. So at this point, anyone who buys into that, you're just fucking lazy.
Becky Mollenkamp (30:29.173)
Yeah. And I feel like maybe they were realizing the blame the trans people for everything narrative wasn't playing as well. And this immigration thing is, by the way, Will and Harper go watch it on Netflix. think that's part of like I and I just read that they pushed to make sure Netflix would release that before the election. Good on you, for using your power in that way, because I do feel like I remember in September, the beginning of school was starting all these parents at one of the back to school functions were talking about how much they couldn't wait to watch that.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:36.227)
Cool.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:46.051)
Mmm, wow.
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (30:55.846)
Thank
Becky Mollenkamp (30:59.096)
that documentary from Will Ferrell. And I was like, this is great. Like, I think that that narrative just isn't playing as much with people. Even middle America is kind of like, I've met a trans person or have a trans friend or, you know, I've watched Will and Harper and I don't think these people are a threat. But what surprised me during the debate was they cited a CBS poll that said that more than half of Americans support mass deportation. So that narrative is clearly working.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:06.904)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:11.544)
Yeah.
I just don't buy it. I just don't buy it. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (31:27.276)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:27.532)
So that is why it's like, let's not blame trans people anymore. Just put everything on illegal immigration. I was...
Taina Brown she/hers (31:30.39)
That's the blame. Yeah. Yeah. They also tried to pin school shootings on illegal immigrants. They're like, yeah, they get illegal guns. And it's like, no one with an illegal gun is shooting up schools. It is usually, right. It's usually, yes, they get them from their parents as a gift or it belongs to their parents. They're usually white, young males, right? Some of them have mental health issues. Some of them don't have mental health issues.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:35.298)
yeah, everything. It it was drugs. Yep.
He blamed it all on the Mexican cartels, right? No, they're getting them from their dad.
Becky Mollenkamp (31:58.43)
Many of them are Trump supporters.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:00.691)
Right, right. So it's just like two minutes of research people, two minutes of research.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:02.658)
Yeah. But I was.
people don't. I was really saddened though to hear that that 50 % of Americans support mass deportation. Like that is scary to me and I'm not sure that the left has done a good enough job of combating that. So I feel like that's an area where like I think the trans issues have quieted a little and not a lot. mean, believe me, if anyone's trans listening, I see you and I know it is still incredibly unsafe and dangerous. But I did feel like the trans, I didn't hear the word trans come up once in this debate.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:26.411)
Thank
Taina Brown she/hers (32:30.501)
Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (32:36.822)
which was a remarkable change from a lot of what's been going on. So, but I do feel like the left has done a better job of trying to humanize that issue where I feel like with illegal immigration instead, it's sort of like, Harris is like, let me go visit the wall and talk about the wall. And like those things are not helping,
Taina Brown she/hers (32:52.286)
Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you this. When you say the left, what do you mean?
Becky Mollenkamp (32:57.196)
I mean, Democrats, but I also mean progressives and leftists. That's clearly an issue where if half of America is still saying, yeah, mass deportation is the answer, something isn't resonating. And I just don't think that there's been a good enough job of humanizing illegal immigrants or immigrants.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:01.568)
Thank
Taina Brown she/hers (33:09.342)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (33:15.58)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I think when it comes to that, and I'll just say this one last thought so we can move on, but I think that also indicates that people are still buying into this narrative that overpopulation is...
the reason for like too many people is the reason for a lot of the issues that we're facing as a country, right? Whether it's the housing crisis, whether it's climate change, whether it's school shootings. And that's not true, right? Like we can tie everything back to the greed of very few to that is creating the issues that we're seeing as opposed to
actual communities that live in this country. so I think, but the left, the right, no politician is going to tackle that because those exactly, exactly.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:13.238)
No, because they're all in the pockets. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I also think maybe the re another big reason for why the immigration issue remains one that's more challenging is because it speaks to race, racism as the primary driver of that fear and that problem. Whereas the trans issues clearly race is a component, but it isn't the central component.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:27.93)
Mm-hmm. And xenophobia.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:41.036)
It's the essential oppression. So I feel like that may be a reason to. right, so economy. yeah, exactly.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:44.498)
Yeah, it's an unversed then, which goes back to American accessibility, accessibility and manifest destiny that we talked about last week. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (34:50.998)
which we talked about last time. So then they talked about economy, which was a really long section. And I was impressed because they really did talk about it for a while. Waltz was talking about, you know, Trump's tax cuts for the wealthy and how the national debt increased under Trump. And Harris basically wants the rich to pay their fair share. I love all of that. My problem is Harris has not been very specific about a lot of this, right?
this economic policy remains nebulous. And I know it's because she's in a precarious spot having to sort of support Biden and what he's doing, also wanting to differentiate herself, but she can't fully yet and not wanting to take the blame necessarily for Biden stuff, which was Vance's big tactic to keep saying, well, if you wanted to do these things and why haven't you done it already as if she has that power. So that was the and then I'm trying to remember the Vance was just talking. yeah. I also liked how he was like,
Taina Brown she/hers (35:37.047)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:47.992)
I gotta admit, a lot of what they're talking about here sounds good. Then he went on to say why it wasn't, but I'm like, they should just steal that clip and make it their hat. But anyway, it was a very long camp, a very long section that, ultimately I didn't feel like I learned anything.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:54.2)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (36:01.244)
Yeah, I don't feel like I learned anything there either. It was just a lot of like, well, this, well, what about like, it was a lot of what about ism, you know, and I think, you know, going back to Harris, you know, being in a tricky spot when it comes to her economic policy, I think one of the reasons why it's also a tricky spot for her is because this whole like, tax the rich thing that they're trying to like, vaguely talk about.
The rich are also the ones that are funding her campaign. So she also wants to, in a way, keep them happy. And so it's a very precarious place to be for her. So I mean, I have sympathy for her there, but also it's...
It's not that hard of a concept to think about people actually paying their taxes. Most of the country does it every year. So... In 15 years!
Becky Mollenkamp (36:59.596)
Yeah, Walls did say Trump hasn't paid his taxes. Vance just, yeah, and Vance kind of just rolled his eyes at that and didn't tackle it, no surprise. Yeah, probably even like, don't you wish you could be like him? Because ultimately, I think that's what most people, think. mean, and the last was the last or the first election, Trump was basically, he was like, yeah, because smart people don't pay taxes. That's why I'm such a smart person. You should elect me. And I think most people end up agreeing with that ultimately, which is sad.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:06.914)
Yeah, he's like, well, well.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:13.931)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:20.792)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (37:25.474)
Then they talked about personal qualifications was what the section was called. And they went to walls first asking him about getting his timeline wrong about when he was in China, as if this was some big, it was 30 plus years. Yeah, it was 30 plus years ago. I understand it was a big moment to be at Tiananmen Square or not. And I get that. But ultimately, based on everything that's going on in the world, I was like, really? But that was, think, all they've managed to find on the guy. I was surprised they didn't talk about his DUI, even though most people at this point don't care about that either.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:37.101)
Some big scandal, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (37:45.131)
it.
Yeah!
Becky Mollenkamp (37:55.208)
But Vance, this is where they did finally ask Vance about, hey, you once said Trump was America's Hitler. And Vance basically said, I fell for the media hype, like he blamed it on the media. That was his answer.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:03.935)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. That's an easy way out. Like that was such an easy way for him to just kind of like wiggle his way out of that. So he basically took no personal responsibility there. Like if he had said, yeah, I thought that, but I changed my mind, like there's some personal responsibility, right? Like even, you're wrong. Like he still is one of the worst people alive.
But at least there's some integrity in how he responded. He would have responded to it. But it was like, no, yeah, I felt for the media hype, because the media, the media narrative, the media this. it's like finger pointing. It's just finger pointing. I was also, when they asked Tim Walz about his timeline in China, I was like, why are we fucking talking about this? Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (38:47.166)
Exactly. And I think most people will be because I think most people honestly it was hard to even follow what they were talking about because I don't think most I had never heard the story and I'm pretty politically astute and I hadn't heard it. So I was like I don't think the majority of people watching this are going to know what they're talking about and who cares. But then they went into the issue that had my blood boiling. So this was the one time when I was really irate because they started talking about abortion which generally is obviously it's triggering for me. I've had two abortions.
Taina Brown she/hers (38:58.327)
Me either.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:02.965)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:09.195)
Mm hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (39:16.376)
And I have a lot of feelings around this issue because I am so staunchly in favor of reproductive freedom. The part that had me boil my blood boiling is not not walls. He did a great job. He was talking about Project Twenty Five Twenty Twenty Five in the registry of, you know, pregnancies, which, by the way, political political political fact, political fact, which I have generally found to be a decent source for is this true or false? So the ones that do the little truth meter, they said it was false.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:37.239)
Yeah, yeah. There's so basically it's on a registry is a database. Semantics semantic.
Becky Mollenkamp (39:44.53)
they wouldn't be the republicans aren't project 2025 doesn't call for a registry of registry of pregnancies it just calls for the states to report pregnancies and miscarriages how do you do that if you don't have a registry i was like that is anyway so that that made me mad today but
Right? Semantics, except they said he was 100 % false, which I was like, you're this is wild. But what really made me mad was Vance, who wants to have it both ways. And this is when I was like, this man is the snakiest snakes of all snakes, because he was so disingenuous. It was such utter bullshit. He bullshit. He talked about growing up in this working class neighborhood where he knew a lot of women who had to have abortions because they had no other choice. So he tried to bring in the sympathy to talk about how
He knew these women, but painted them as a particular kind of woman, like as if the only kind of woman who has an abortion is a lower class, less educated, you know, woman who has absolutely no other choice, but has to do this thing. She desperately doesn't want to, which pissed me off. And then he talks about how I am here to be pro family in all the ways. And we're going to totally support women after they have babies and make sure they have childcare and blah, blah, all these things. And
Taina Brown she/hers (40:35.881)
Mm-hmm.
See.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:43.06)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (40:50.28)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:02.072)
I'm like, excuse me, where's that been happening? Didn't happen when Trump, your man, was in office. Republicans repeatedly shoot down all of these things. You are full of shit. he said that he has never said that he wanted a national abortion ban, but it's clear as day he has said that. And then I think what made me even more angry, that all made me real mad. Because I was like, you can't, don't be, you're just such a liar.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:05.171)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:16.292)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:26.846)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:27.368)
You clearly said you do not support abortion in any way. And now to be like, no, no, I have a lot of empathy for these women. And no, I really do think we should have, you know, support women after they have children. Also, it's not just women who have abortions, but then Wall said, hey, we're not pro-abortion. We're pro-women, pro-freedom, pro-choice. And like, while the sentiment is nice, I'm glad you're pro-women. I'm glad you're pro-freedom. I'm glad you're pro-choice. I'm fucking pro-abortion.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:41.598)
Abortions, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (41:55.956)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (41:56.28)
And I get really tired of the way we have to tap dance around this and be like, no, don't really, I don't like abortion. just like, like, no one would say, right, no one would say, hey, I'm not pro-chemo. I'm just like anti-cancer. No, I'm pro-chemo if that's the thing that helps people fight cancer. I'm pro-chemo. I am pro-abortion. I am pro-medical procedures that save lives and or are just things that help women live a better life.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:03.765)
I just like people being able to choose. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:12.852)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:22.228)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:25.747)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (42:26.4)
and people live a better life. So anyway, all of that to say that whole thing all around both sides, all of it pissed me off.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:30.293)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that J.J.Vance was definitely talking out of both sides of his mouth there where he was like, yes, this, also this. it's like, this is one case where you you can't say one and then say also the other. Like you either are or you aren't because you can't say, I'm I'm I'm pro life. But also like
let the states decide because as was clearly pointed out, like some states have decided no, and we have seen what kind of harm that has caused, right? Like he explicitly named women who have been harmed by state laws. so it's one of those things where it's like, he's trying to, he's trying to, J.D. Vann is trying to play to the women, the conservative women who now have feelings because of the whole IVF thing. And it's just,
It was transparent. It was very transparent what he was doing.
Becky Mollenkamp (43:32.514)
Yeah, I could go on and on, but I won't because we're almost out of time, but it really pissed me off. Guns. This was where I think personally, actually feel like the best line of the night, four walls got kind of lost and I wish that he had been more adamant. In fact, the whole night I was wishing he had been just a little more assertive. I don't need him to be an attack dog, but a little more assertive. But they, know, all the bullshit, Vance is blaming, school shootings on.
Taina Brown she/hers (43:49.233)
in the next.
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (43:59.788)
you know, illegal immigrants on the Mexican cartels and was was talking about sensible gun reform. And he, you know, was somebody who owns guns. They talked about Finland that also has guns, but has no shootings. Vance talking about how basically Finland, the differences we have a mental health crisis and apparently Finland doesn't, which I don't think that's true. I think mental health issues are everywhere. And also what are you doing about the mental health crisis? Then Vance, nothing. And then talking about how
Taina Brown she/hers (44:07.445)
Yes.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:25.982)
this is where we get our nice little bit of racism is he's like, yeah, but we have more big cities and it's all happening in the big cities, which we all know, Republican speak big, big cities means where the black people are. Right. And I, yeah. And I love that Walls was like, Hey, in rural Minnesota, we have way more deaths by gun than in the cities. But the best line of the night was, well, first Walls said, just because you have a mental health issue doesn't mean you're violent. Thank you. I'm glad that they've said that.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:32.946)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:37.449)
Yeah, yeah, it's a dog whistle, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:46.367)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:54.005)
Thank you.
Becky Mollenkamp (44:55.778)
But then he said, almost in passing, sometimes it's just the guns. And I was like, that's the fucking line of the night. Yeah. Sometimes it's just the guns. And that's from a gun owning hunting guy.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:59.806)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:06.216)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, who he was ex-military, you know, lives in a state that is very much just
about hunting culture. You know what I mean? Like he lives in a state where that's the norm. That's the norm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (45:23.948)
Yeah. And he used to have NRA support. And Vance pointed out, and he said, and then I sat with the parents of kids who had lost their kids in a school shooting. And I just felt like, unfortunately, a lot of that kind of loss because Walsh just isn't as dynamic. I love him in so many ways, but yeah, he's not as forceful and dynamic, and he's clearly not a polished speaker.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:33.897)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:37.47)
It did.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:45.277)
Yeah, yeah, I think, and he also brought up about his son witnessing the shooting and that was kind of, you know, that was kind of lost as well. And so I think he's a relatable speaker. think his personality is like, let's find harmony here. And I don't wanna fucking find harmony with a party that is...
not concerned about the welfare of children in schools, as they're dying from school shootings from kids who have inexcusable access to weapons.
Becky Mollenkamp (46:17.538)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (46:24.598)
Yeah, I watch, so you watch CBS. I'm a big MSNBC person because you know, I like Rachel Maddow. And afterwards, I'm trying to look up her name real quick because I want to be able to give her credit. But Simone Sanders is her name. Simone Sanders on MSNBC afterwards. And she used to be part of the Biden election campaign. She understands these issues. And she's also a millennial. She's a little younger. She's in her 30s. And she was saying,
She wanted him to be a little more of that attack dog. Yeah, and she was like, there's just too much of this him nodding and being like, yeah, here we are coming from. And unfortunately, that's playing into exactly what Vance was trying to accomplish that night was just enough to give white people who know it's really kind of bad to vote for Trump, but just enough to say like, yeah, but this guy seems pretty sane. He's well spoken. He'll be all right.
Taina Brown she/hers (46:56.192)
Impressive.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:03.008)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:16.947)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (47:21.14)
And that's an unfortunately, I feel like he did kind of play into that hand a little bit. So that's.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:24.371)
Yeah, yeah. And that, you know what, that was my biggest takeaway of the night that like, JD Vance comes across as so charismatic, so eloquent. And the rapport between him and Tim Walz was, they were very cordial. It was harmonious enough that I feel like conservative voters who were maybe on the fence about Trump are like,
Becky Mollenkamp (47:38.456)
They were very cordial.
Taina Brown she/hers (47:47.315)
Well, JD Vance isn't that bad and Tim Walz agrees with him and you know, and he, you know, they have this thing, they have this thing during the debate. So maybe JD Vance can keep Trump in check or maybe JD Vance can like push our agenda behind the scenes while Trump is like out there doing his antics, which is exactly what happened during his first presidency, right?
Becky Mollenkamp (48:10.136)
Yeah, I didn't watch any Fox because I just can't stomach it, but I am a little curious how they framed it afterwards because I highly doubt that their big clip is going to be that moment. you're OK. It's I doubt that their big clip is going to be the moment of, hey, did he win in 2020 and him refusing to answer?
Taina Brown she/hers (48:19.337)
Yeah. Well, I'm frozen. Okay.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:28.875)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (48:30.592)
I'm curious what they did pull out. My guess is they're probably framing it that way of like, look at this guy, he's really sensible. They had a lot of moments of agreement, that kind of thing, which is really upsetting. Okay, listen, I'm gonna skim through really quick. So then they talked about housing. I've sort of felt like the biggest moment of that was when Walls said, so let me get this straight. We're gonna drill and build houses on the same federal lands that you guys want to take away from people. And I liked that he made that, like, I don't think a lot of people maybe even realize that they're talking about seizing federal land.
Taina Brown she/hers (48:52.095)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (49:00.092)
one to drill on, but two to put houses on. And he did a great, I'm upset that this came late and that I don't think most people probably care to watch, but I think it's really, really important for people to understand that that is something they're talking about doing. And Wall's making this point of we don't have that many federal lands and we have those lands for a reason. And you're talking about taking them away. And he said, where you were talking about and turning it into a commodity where you're going to make money selling it. And that was upsetting. Yeah. And then they talked about healthcare and the ACA as the
Taina Brown she/hers (49:08.202)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (49:22.939)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (49:29.154)
people I saw on MSNBC talking about. Basically, Vance tried to say that Trump saved the ACA, which was just simply not true. was McCain who came in and saved that. And yeah, and we all know what Trump thought of McCain. So that was just utter bullshit there. And Wallace called him out, but not as forcibly as he could have.
Taina Brown she/hers (49:39.237)
Don't belay it.
Taina Brown she/hers (49:43.85)
Yeah.
Yeah, he definitely could have done a better job of just saying, no, that's just absolutely not true.
Becky Mollenkamp (49:51.03)
Yeah. And then they had a moment that I thought was funny. Vance says, they claim all these bad things will happen if Trump becomes president, right? He's saying that this is what they're saying. And the whole time they had a split screen watching walls going, nodding his head vigorously like, yeah. I was like, I need that as I need that, Jim. OK. And then the last issues were families talking about like FMLA and child care. Again, a lot of bullshit. Right. And I did love at one point, Margaret Brennan does call out.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:03.275)
He's like, yes, that's exactly what we're saying.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:12.331)
talk there.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:17.225)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (50:20.888)
Vance who was not really answering the questions and sort of talking about shipping jobs overseas and somehow that's what, right? And I loved that an incredulous Margaret Brennan said, how does that solve the childcare shortage? That's great. was like, again, nice job with out of her. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:27.349)
That's contributing to child care, yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:34.827)
Yeah. And I think with the child care thing, it's not necessarily that there's a child care shortage. It's that one, child care is very expensive, so it's inaccessible. And two, because it's very, it's not just expensive for the parents, it's expensive for people who want to provide child care. And so it should be because it's important, but yes, yeah. So it makes it hard for people who want to provide child care to stay in business long-term.
Becky Mollenkamp (50:53.474)
Yeah, and it should be, but it needs to be subsidized. Yes, right.
Yeah. And then what ends up happening is they end up paying people below living wages. And then of course, you're not going to get the care that you should. And when a mom has to make a choice between do I go work and put all of it towards childcare where my child is treated poorly or do I not work and then go on to government subsidies? I know that choice. There's no way I'm sending my child somewhere where I don't feel like I can trust the people who are in his that he's in their care. Fuck no.
Taina Brown she/hers (51:11.925)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (51:18.859)
it.
Taina Brown she/hers (51:25.28)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (51:30.187)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (51:31.106)
So I get that, but of course then the right likes to paint those people as people who just don't want to work and all of that. So the last section we've already talked about, so we don't have to go back there, which is the democracy piece, which is where he cornered him on, he win on January 6th? So that was where they ended things. Then their wives came out, they all shook hands, they left. I've talked before about how I do not understand how Usha Vance is with that man. I never will. But anyway, they told a lot of lies. Ultimately, my takeaway is...
Taina Brown she/hers (51:36.657)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (51:43.583)
Mm-hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (51:59.168)
It was kind of a wash and I just don't think that most people at this point don't know who they're going to vote for. And for the very small sliver that didn't, think unfortunately it might have gone Vance's way because those are likely my theory anyway, is that most of the people haven't decided yet. What that really means, if you haven't decided that Trump is such an evil human, you can't vote for him, then you kind of want to, but you don't feel like you are supposed to.
Taina Brown she/hers (52:12.038)
Uh-huh.
Taina Brown she/hers (52:24.265)
Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (52:25.772)
And I do feel like it might've given them just enough permission to do it, which is upsetting.
Taina Brown she/hers (52:28.231)
Yeah, yeah. I agree. I agree. If I were to say who won this, I would say JD Vance. I don't think Waltz was assertive enough. And I think JD Vance did a great job at doing what he does, which is lying and manipulating. And as I was watching him last night, was like, JD Vance, I'm pretty sure he's gay. And Usha is a beard.
Becky Mollenkamp (52:51.967)
everyone thinks he is.
Taina Brown she/hers (52:56.241)
You just, you cannot convince me otherwise.
Becky Mollenkamp (52:59.008)
Is this her? Her payment for that for that job is to show up and become first lady or something. Who knows? I don't know. I don't understand it. Allegedly, let's just throw in a lot of allegedly is not that JD Vance ever is going to listen to this. And if you do, you're a piece of shit and a terrible human. So because you're just you're clearly slimy. Like, it's amazing to me how you could be the kind of person who's saying he was America's Hitler to this and then.
Taina Brown she/hers (53:06.312)
Yeah. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (53:12.469)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (53:17.403)
Yeah, we don't like you. Please change.
Becky Mollenkamp (53:27.478)
the kind of person who's saying that if you if we allow abortion care like we're reprehensible humans and now saying like, yeah, I really feel bad for her and she should be alive. Like, it's just anyway, well, America's fucked if they win. And also, we're kind of fucked if they don't.
Taina Brown she/hers (53:36.469)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (53:42.795)
We're if they don't. We're just fucked either way.
Becky Mollenkamp (53:47.116)
Yeah, so I hope that was uplifting for everyone listening. Well, we're going to try and turn this around and get it out right away. And we'd love to hear what you thought about the debate and who you think won or what were the standout moments for you. So make sure you email us or comment. If you're watching on YouTube, you can comment below if you're watching on Apple or listening on Apple or some of those other places. Feel free to leave a comment or email us at messy liberation at Gmail dot com. Until next time.
Taina Brown she/hers (53:49.283)
Happy Wednesday, people. Happy Wednesday.
Taina Brown she/hers (54:02.156)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (54:14.988)
Thank y'all.