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We share stories of how the blood of Jesus has transformed ours and others' lives.
 Welcome to Red Ledger. I'm your host today, Lissa Frasure, and we've got Tyler Bell as our co-host. I'm really excited. How's it going for this? This podcast is gonna be, um, really good. I've, um, been studying Romans for a while. It's, it's a book that I've haven't been able to get out of because of God's grace.
Um, and I just, I've thought, when am I gonna get bored with this, with this book? And I haven't. And I'm so glad your mom has said multiple times that you're just a Grace Guy like I am. I just always go to the Grace. So I'm like, well, good. Then let's, let's have Tyler and I talk about this and share our experiences with the audience.
Um, so I wanted to ask you, when it comes to Grace, how, how is it that you have so much and that you, you refer to the Grace versus the, I mean, I know obedience is part of it, but, um, sometimes, um, as Christians. Um, or people just in general, we become so focused on the works and the doing and being obedient and we forget about God's grace.
So how, how did you come about that grace? So when I first started, like actually coming to God again, uh, when I was like 22 or so, um, I, mm-hmm. Like first, like I never read the Bible before and I started reading Matthew and it just like freaked me out. 'cause like, I, I, there's like the depart from me verse, there's all like these really like sketchy verses and I didn't really know what they meant.
Um, and I didn't know like, the context of them. Yeah. So I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm going to hell. Um, and then. Uh, on TikTok. I mean, there was just such like a rise of like workspace teachings and um, like a lot of like lordship based salvation stuff. And, um, I just, like, I got so like, freaked out thinking like I could maintain my salvation and I was gonna lose my salvation.
And I was like, I was fried basically forever. So, yeah. Um, right. And then I just kind of got, uh, obsessed in, in, in trying to like, figure out how salvation works. 'cause I knew like I, I couldn't earn it. Like there's no possible way I could earn it, you know, like if I couldn't earn it, like, I gotta figure it out.
Yeah. Romans six. Um, right at the beginning of it, this is what stood out to me. This is said twice in there. Um, so in Romans six one it says, what shall we say then, shall we continue in sin That Grace May abound? Certainly not. And, and certainly not. It's an, it's an exclamation point. Yeah. And so he's, he's, he's so like, no, we're not going to just be, you know, sinful people.
That's, and, and that gives us an excuse to be sinful. And it goes, and it says the same thing in, in, uh, six 15, um, and says, what then shall we sin? Because we are not under the law, but under grace, again, he says, certainly not. My experience was I was never good enough. Yeah. I was never, ever good enough. I was always told, you know, I wasn't the right religion.
Um, and then you get out of that religion and, and or away from that, and you just get to people who weren't religious and I still wasn't good enough, so I was constantly rejected. And what I found with Jesus is how accepted I am. And that, you know, especially through the law, the law, even though the law is holy, right?
The law is holy and it's important. Um, but that law brings condemnation, right? Mm-hmm. Because we're never able to fulfill it. Yeah. It's weird. Jesus. Paul says, um, like, or I think, was it Roman seven, four through six, he says that, uh, the law, like arouses sin, and I thought that was like a weird phrase, phrasing for it, but like, yeah.
Uh, like it, like it uhhuh it does bring like your sin to light. It does like bring it to, um, I guess makes it the fruit of the law a little bit. Yeah, it does. That's, I know, that's, I highlighted that, that's funny because it says in, um, in seven five it says, for when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
So the fruit of it is death. Like yeah, it's, so, I was like, the fruit of God is death. I didn't expect that. And then right after, he obviously like talks about like, this, the, the law is like as a holy thing, but it does like bring a magnifying glass to you. It really does. It really does. And, and that's why it is, you know, I guess it's so easy for me to, um, I've never had a really hard time in pointing out my flaws because, I dunno, it's just, I, I don't care.
You know? Yeah. I mean, I care. I don't, I wanna be as good as I possibly can, and I do make those efforts, but I'm corrected quite often from the Holy Spirit. And I think you've heard it. I mean, you, you go through and edit our podcast, so you, you've heard the conversations and the exposure of the things that we do or that I've done.
And, and so, oh, I mean, it, it, it doesn't justify, it doesn't give me per permission, but now I'm justified through Christ. Yeah. And I'm no longer having to, I don't have to sacrifice. Um, a goat or the lamb, or I don't have to sacrifice anything because Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice and amen. And that is so much of what my concern is for people.
And what, what I, you know, when I talk to people is so many people just, they don't feel good enough. And like you were saying, um, that you questioned your salvation. Mm-hmm. Um, there, there, it brings to mind somebody that I know who has, he's battled with that for a very long time, and it really is saddening, um, because what an awful space to be in mentally Yeah.
To go Am I, am I really accepted? And you know, yes, there are ways that you, um, you know, by blaspheming the Holy Spirit and then by choosing Jesus and then choosing not Jesus. I mean, you have to be really evil. Yeah. To. To be turned away from the Lord like it is. Yeah. I don't know that I can know somebody that, that has ever done that, so it's very, very, very hard to lose your salvation.
Yeah. Like, it's just, it's almost impossible. And, but I've seen people struggle with that. And so with your struggles, have you, uh, with that, when you, when you struggled with that, um, what, um, what were you able to, how were you able to, to come out of that? Was that the constant seeking, um, of the word or was there some profound moment or, or, yeah.
You know, how, how did, how, how were you affected? It's so, like, I, I like consumed a lot of like Christian content through TikTok for like a long time because like, and I mm-hmm. I used it like, along with the Bible, um mm-hmm. And I found people that were teaching like how like Grace actually works and how you're actually saved and like the actual theology of like free grace and like, and it's an everlasting gift.
It's a free gift. And, um. I think that kind of like helped me get my like theology and like my understanding on it. Right. Um, but still like it's, it's as simple as like a concept as it is. Like it's still kind of like a hard concept to like really wrap your mind around because it's hard to be like. Uh, I guess like with the way the world works, everything's like very performance based.
You have to like, perform for love, you know? Um, it, yeah. Mm-hmm. And, and I, it's kind of hard to, to open your mind up that God's grace is eternal and like super real and like so much better than, uh, the grace I could give somebody else. Um, right. But I think that, and, and really kind of finding the verses to root my, I guess my, my theology about salvation, um mm-hmm.
And specifically, like, I think everybody's like, favorite verse when it comes to salvation is, uh, Ephesians 2, 8, 9, uh, and 10, you know, um, just like you're saved by grace through faith, right? Um, not because of works, but for works. And it just, I think like when I started to, um, kind of create the foundation of how salvation works through like really clear, uh, verses and um.
And instead of those verses where I feel like I kinda have to like infer about my salvation, like depart from me, I never knew you or, or things like that, right. Where I can, I can Yeah. Use that to, to kind of light the way for and, and illuminate the other verses that I'm struggling with. Yeah, totally. So, so you, you started to build like a confidence in the word because you're now seeing Oh, okay, so this is true.
Yeah. It isn't based on my works. Um, absolutely. Yeah. And I would say like the two books that like really helped me the most was like one Romans and then two Ephesians. Uh, like those were mind boggling for me when I first read 'em. I was like, whoa, Romans, it, Romans is, was so powerful for me because for years I just felt condemned.
I felt mm-hmm. Um, I wasn't good enough because I, I fell short of the glory of God all the time. All the time. I fell short. Yeah. And I knew it and people told me that. And um, and, and even I told myself and I was judging others and so. Um, I didn't, I never thought I'd be accepted. I mean, I was told at one point that I wasn't going to be accepted into heaven 'cause I smoked cigarettes.
I remember editing that part of the podcast where you mentioned that I was, what Your response to that was so awesome. I loved it so much. That was so good. Isn't that funny? I was like, wow. I think that's so awful. Like, that's horrible. I'm gonna not, I'm not gonna go to heaven 'cause I smoke. You have no idea who I am.
How, how could you even see my heart in, in how I feel about the world, or, or, or my righteousness or whatever. Like, you can't, you can't judge anything and I don't think I've ever told anybody. You're going to hell or heaven or you know. Yeah. I just, I mean, that's a pretty bold statement to, to make and what a, what a way to deter somebody from like, actually like doing better in their life.
Oh, and, and actually like hearing the truth of like, that it is grace, you know, when you go after somebody and, um, you treat them like that, that is a great way to deter them from Jesus. Absolutely. Um, and that's, I think where, why, why I have so much grace is because so much was shown to me. I couldn't get out of this, the, the chapter six and chapter seven, I just, I'd meditate on it and I've been, you know, I just am really enjoying being there because it's, it's giving me an understanding even more so in through my walk in Christianity that I am loved and I am accepted because I still battle with things, you know?
Yeah. We all do. So it's, it's great to. I guess, and I, and I don't like it when people say this, but I'm gonna say it's great to be reminded. Yeah, dude. It's so true though. It's so weird. I like, I haven't read Romans in a while and, um, Uhhuh like, through kind of just like rereading it for this, I was like, wow, like, there's so much that it's just so nice to be reminded of.
Like, it's so easy. I, I feel like even though like I know that like, salvation is free, it's a free gift and it's like all through grace and like there's nothing I could have done or ever can do to maintain it. Like I still, yeah, it's so easy to kind of just like you're, I feel like my flesh keeps like slipping back into the law a little bit and then my mind kind of slips back into it and then I have to, um, I get reminded by God or like there's revelation or I just reread something or somebody just says something, the right thing at the right time and I'm just like, oh yeah, duh.
Like, mm-hmm. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. You know, I've seen so many, there's just different. I don't know, churches or religions out there that put so much pressure on people to live according to the law. Yeah. And I see how their lives are wrecked. Mm-hmm. From that, and mine was too. Mm-hmm. Um, because I bought into that and I'm so thankful to have this revelation that Jesus, he became the ultimate sacrifice for all of us.
Yeah. I mean, that's what all of the Old Testament was about. Yeah. Was showing us how the law didn't work. Yeah. You know, literally like, it, it just didn't, and, and I'm not, again, I'm not saying that the law is not important. Yeah. That, that, um, that it's not holy. It is. But we, um, the Lord wanted us to know, our heavenly Father wanted us to know that we did need Jesus.
Yeah. And that he did become the ultimate sacrifice. And I think Paul is such a great example to go and preach that. Mm-hmm. Because he was the one persecuting, um, Christians. Yeah. And here he is going around going, oh, come on, stop. Let's, let's live in grace. Not under the law. Yeah. All, all of the stars of the Bible are, you know, like, have really done some bad stuff.
Like David, you know, David and Moses. I know. I was, I was talking to my husband and we were talking about that. Um, I was like, you know, God's just amazing. You know, you, there's not one person who was perfect. Mm-hmm. And, um, I recently, uh, I heard one of our clips from one of our, um, podcasts and. I was saying that I, I wanna go to a church with imperfect people.
Yeah. Because that's who I can relate to. Yeah. Because I, I mean, I am, my goal is to do better each and every day, and I am doing better, but sometimes I have these setbacks and these mess ups, and I wanna be able to know that I'm forgiven and that I can be redeemed and that I am redeemed. Um, because living in a space where you're not.
Um, can really tear you down and it, and it pulls you away from Jesus. Mm-hmm. It just pulls you like back into, into performance again. And, um, like salvation is a free gift. You know, like, all it, it's a free g great God's Grace is a free gift. I mean, like, by by definition it's, it's free. You know, like it's something that, that gift you didn't deserve or you could ever earn.
And when you're in a space where you feel like you have to perform there, it feels like there is no grace for when you do mess up or when people do mess up. It, it is all, um, judgment and con condemnation and shame, and those are the worst motivators. Yeah. And that's why I don't understand, you know, I, I wanna make sure that our message is the, is the, is what the gospel says.
Yeah. You know, and I wanna make sure that whatever I'm saying is reflective of that. Yeah. Um, because I, I don't wanna be that person that turns somebody away from the Lord. In fact, I want them to know you're, you're welcome in the family and we want you there. And he does. He wants you there. He's chosen you.
Absolutely. Um. You know, it says the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ. Mm-hmm. Sin is cruel. Right. It's that cruel master that you, that sometimes you just get hoarding and you hold onto, you hold onto that sin. Yeah. Um, but the promise, again, like you and I were saying earlier, it's, it's the, um, the fruit of it is death.
Yeah. But the gift of God in, in Christ, it's eternal life. Mm-hmm. And so when, when you have sin and, and that's death. But, but, but what we do is with sin, we kind of hoard it and kind of hide it. Mm-hmm. You know, but sin always promises that there's freedom. There's freedom in this. So you'll be free. You'll be free if you just do whatever your heart says.
Do whatever you want. Okay. Um, it's your truth, boo. Do your truth like that. Yeah. I don't like any of that stuff. That always makes me feel it's so, so subjective. Um, it's so subjective. There's no standard. It is subjective. It is subjective. Right. And so my question to you is, because now, now that we, when you choose Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you choose that grace you, you're choosing that grace.
Yeah. And so you're now choosing to live his ways. Yes. Um, and so it says that we're a slave to righteousness. We are no longer a slave to sin. We're a slave to, to righteousness. Mm-hmm. To his righteousness. Mm-hmm. So how do you, how do you relate to the idea of being now a slave to righteousness versus a slave to sin?
Yeah. You know, because a lot of people, I hear people say, oh, we're just sinners. Yeah. We're sinner. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not a sinner. I do sin, but I'm not a sinner. Exactly. That's an identity statement. Um, I'm saved by grace, you know, like, and that's not my identity. Like, I, I've been saved and I've been purchased, you know?
Um, yeah. Mm-hmm. I have the freedom. Of righteousness and to choose righteousness. And I didn't have the freedom to choose that before. And that's the true freedom, right? That's the true freedom. Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm. So like, you know, with like addictions and stuff, like, even though like I'm free from sin doesn't mean I'm not in a world that.
Struggles with sin as a free man, doesn't mean I won't still wrestle with sin. Um, but I have, I have freedom from it. Like, I I, so what's cool about, um, the word grace in the Bible is that it's always like matched with like, um, power. Like, it's always like an empowering word to empower you. Right? And, and it's, I love it so much because like every time we fall, his grace empowers us to keep going because if I was in shame in condemnation, I, I wouldn't have the motivation to go forward.
And that's why shame is such a bad motivator in grace. By the opposite end of the spectrum is such a great motivator because it does, it, it's, it's another opportunity for you to keep getting up and keep going. And it's almost like, um, like a trial ground, like a, like a practice ground. You keep practicing your righteousness.
Yeah, totally. That is such a great, um, that is such a great explanation of it. Um, I know, I, I know I, um, say things about my kids, um, and I have to use this example. Um, so we were at another, our last final high school. Baseball stuff. Um, so we were at a, a tournament and there was such a great depiction of this, um, of exactly what you were talking about.
Yeah. Here, there was the team that my son was on and this new coach that he had for his summer baseball team. I'm telling you what, this guy was amazing. And, and he, I don't know that I would consider him a Christian. I don't know. Um, I I, I have no idea. But what I can, what I thought of him was he was more Christ-like than many of the Christians I've come across.
Yeah. His way of coaching was, I mean, these boys on this team, they all laughed and had such a great time and they didn't have to earn their, I mean, they did have to earn their spots, but they didn't have to earn it in, in the sense like, you're never good enough. Yeah. You know, like all these boys, not every player was the topnotch, but every player p played at topnotch level because they had this grace and the coach, when they would make mistakes, the coach kind of laughed and teased and, and, and it was all in a loving way.
And then we played this other team. And when this other team came out, Tyler, I just was like, their heads were down. They, and I know, and I knew the coach and I knew, I know how the operating mode was over there, and they did not operate under a grace. Yeah. And there was such a stark difference in attitudes, in comradery, in the way these boys held themselves.
And I was like, this, this is, this is where these boys are operating under grace and these are operating based on performance. Yeah. And, and it was really like, I was like, I'm so thankful for Jesus. Yeah. I really am. And this, this, this man, the way he handled things was exactly, exactly what you were just talking about.
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, um, like I know for sure that coach was probably not spitting death over those people, you know, over, over those kids that are No, not at all playing a sport. Like it, it's a fun thing. Like it's not something that like, I have to go and like. You know, get enough sales or whatever, like this is a fun enter, like this is an entertaining and, and fun for all of us to, to be competitive and enjoy.
And there's another team that is just under shame and not performing right enough. And they'll never be able to perform right. Enough. Yes. Because what's a perfect baseball player Right. You know? Right. There isn't, it's just like with golf, you know, um, with golfing you've got good days. Well, you have a few good days, and then you, you probably have a few more bad days.
It's such a hard game. And, and so, you know, it really is a hard game and it's hit or miss. And so, you know, if you don't have that grace for yourself, that mental game and, and what goes on in your head, it can just put you right in the toilet bowl swirling around and you see it happen. And that's what happens to these kids.
And then this team, which was my son's team, who was not better, um, athletically they weren't, but they ended up beating them. Yeah. And winning because they ended up playing better. And I think it's because mentally. They weren't in condemnation? No. They were in, okay, well we'll just keep going. Yeah. We're still gonna work hard.
We're gonna play hard and Okay, we'll just keep going. And it's, and I think that's the walk of the Christian life that, that, um, it's not that things won't come against you, it's just how do you handle it? Yeah. And, and are you able to walk in that grace versus the condemnation? Yeah. I mean, like, there's probably so much more peace and joy and contentment in just like, showing up to do the thing instead of like all like, and, and just having fun with it and like coming from a place of joy.
I feel like joy is, would be so much better for a performance, you know, than, than always. Yeah. Totally. Being under pressure and in fear and shame that I'm not gonna do enough, you know, and I can't do enough. One of the things, one of the verses that Paul talks about, um, in Romans seven is he says, um, I do not do what I want, but what I hate, I do, I love this part.
And isn't that a great part? Yeah. So, okay. Tell me what you love about it. Um, I, 'cause this is the experience of every Christian, whether they want to admit it or not, it's the war within Yeah. Like I, it, my, my flesh is completely separate from who I am. I am, I am not my flesh. Mm-hmm. I am not my sin. I am not that identity anymore.
I'm a new creation in Christ, you know, and, um, the, the, mm-hmm. And. I mean, those are always gonna be at war with each other. So why am I gonna try and perform my way out of that instead of letting God do his work and finish his work in me? You know? Um, it just gives me so much peace. 'cause it's like, okay, Paul, like I love Paul.
He wrote two thirds of the New Testament. He killed Christians for a living. Mm-hmm. And he still struggles with sin. Right? Hey, I still struggle with sin. Yeah, same here. It's o and, and, and it sucks. Mm-hmm. Like what a wretched sinner I am. But thanks. Thanks God. Like thanks that you saved me. Yeah, for sure.
Thank you that you saved me, and thank you that I don't have to be a slave to that anymore. Absolutely. Because what, what happens is, is when we, when we receive Christ, you know, that is, that part is shed from us. We are no longer where we have to be slave to that. Because as we grow in him, as we seek him out, the the goal is, and what actually happens is, is there's a transformation.
That whole new creature. You become, you no longer have the, the desire to sin. Mm-hmm. Right? You're like, I don't really wanna do this. And not everything, like in my walk, I know that not everything fell off immediately. Yeah. There was things that I was doing well, Jesus would call sinning. Yeah. Okay. But he didn't shed all of that initially.
And there's still parts of it that I'm still shedding. Um, but now it's no longer like it was when I, when I first started this walk where I was like, oh gosh, can I do this? I don't know if I should be. Yeah. You know, and it was a struggle. But the more I have grown in him, there's a grace and I just rest and go, okay, well this is, this is on you Lord.
Yeah. You gotta help me. I can't do this without you. And I just put it back on him and then he helps me and he brings me through it. And so that through that. Um, I'm not subject to that sin or that slavery anymore. I'm actually subject to the grace. Exactly. And, and what if you did overcome it by yourself, then you'd be stealing glory from God, you or you?
Well, 'cause you can't really totally overcome something by yourself. Like repentance is a change of, of, of mind, a change of heart and change of like inner man and like second Timothy, that that's a gift from God. That's not something that you do. So when people are always like, well, you better repent. And it, or else you're gonna burn in hell.
It's like you don't even know what repent means. I don't think, based on the way that you're saying this, in context, God gives you repentance. So like God gives you the ability to believe, to have faith in him. You know? It's all a gift from him. Yeah. You're forgiven of past, present, and future sin. So yeah, it's complete.
It's complete. Complete. It is done. I mean, and that's, I mean it, Jesus said it is finished. It's finished, like Yeah, it's done. Yeah. And so it, it's, it's all forgivable. I mean, I'm not saying, you know, I, I don't think you and I are saying go out and sin and do this stuff, and that's not what Romans is saying.
In fact, it, it screams stop. No, that's not what we're saying. You, you won't want to No, you, you won't want to. No, I mean, like, you, you might be like misinformed or you won't have like the certain knowledge on like certain sin if you're like a new Christian. Right. Yeah. But you, you'll want to do better for God because you, you accept the reality that he's God and you want a relationship with him.
Yeah. You, you've repented about your idea of sin. Yeah. In, in God, he, he's the ultimate standard. I subscribe to that. Yeah. And I repent from my, my belief system before that. Yeah. He is the ultimate standard. And, and so often, like there's been people that I have spoken to in my life and they, they are the standard and mm-hmm.
This is what I have said. You know, when they, they, which I get this, I've, I've said these, these things, so I, there's no condemnation here, but. Um, I feel, you know, I feel like da dah, dah, dah. Okay, well, mm-hmm. I'm measuring everything up to this word, this word, and so this is what the word says and my understanding of it is this.
And so, yeah, that's what I refer back to is this standard not mine, because you, Tyler, don't know what my standard is if I don't have it by the, by the word. Right? So how can you live up to my standard and my standard might change if I'm hungry, if I'm tired, or if I am, you know, whatever, whatever the thing is.
You know, I've, I've heard people talk about, I'm hungry and so, you know, I just, I just have a bad attitude. 'cause when I'm hungry, okay, well, yeah, I guess, okay, well that's your standard and so that gives you a, a permission to treat me yucky. Um, but that mm-hmm. I don't agree with that standard. 'cause I don't think you have the right to do that, so.
Okay. Um, I'd rather prefer to go to the book, the big book and use that standard versus somebody else's own personal standard. Yeah. And this is like the, the whole thing with like a lot of like new age and stuff too. It's just like the subjective morality. It's so, like, you can't, you can't measure it. It's all just like personal opinion.
Mm-hmm. And, and you can't, the, the Bible is so credible. Mm-hmm. And it is like the only thing that has stood the test of time for how morality works, it's the whole system on like the, the whole reason that people think murder is bad is because God imprinted the law in our conscience. Yes. You know? Right.
He, he, he let us know that, and he wrote it in his word and, and, and all the only reason we know these things that are obviously bad is because of God. Yeah. And, and you just created an opinion based on your contemporary idea of what's good and bad because of how society and somebody tried to say something online and you, you fell for it, you know?
Yeah. That is so good. That is so good. Well, you know, so many people have that right now because they, because of people in the church. And, you know. Mm-hmm. Um, this is gonna offend people, but the church has offended people and they have pushed people away. Yeah. I was one of them. And yeah. And, and it took the right kind of people to show me who Jesus really is.
And now I see him and I see him for who he is. And, and now, you know, I don't say, I don't say, uh, well, I just pray God's perfect will. I know without knowing his will. I know God's will. I know his will for my life. I may not know his design or his exact plan, but I know his will for my life is good. I know his will for my life is to overcome.
I know his will for my life is, is truth and love. And to experience those things and for me to share them, I know that's what his will is so I don't have to question it anymore. And that's what I questioned. Yeah. I didn't understand because we as the body of Christ have hurt people and we need to stop.
We need to stop doing that. Mm-hmm. We need to, yeah. Show the grace and we need to. Um, be a better representation of him. Absolutely. And I feel like a lot of that hurt, like stems from like very pharisaical, hypo, hypocritical point of view of like, I can't do no wrong and neither should you. Yeah. And if you're wrong, you're gonna go to hell and I don't care about you.
There's no compassion. Like Yeah. You know, and that's, and that's where, that's where we get wrong. Go wrong. Because, you know, that's what Jesus came so that we could be held accountable. Jesus did hold us accountable. He held, he held each person accountable, but he did it in such a loving way. And you know, I hear lots of people talk about, well, he was flipping tables.
Well, yes, he was. He did flip tables, but he still Yeah. It's like written once, wasn't it? Like Yeah. One time he wasn't going around and just flipping all the time. He did that once. Yeah. I just think it's important that we, we share with others mm-hmm. Who Jesus is and that you are loved, you are accepted.
Mm-hmm. You know, even with all your baggage. Mm-hmm. I mean, I, you know, if I went through, um, the commandments. I've commanded a lot of, you know, I've, I've broken a lot of those commandments. Yeah. And so, um, if not all of 'em, and I, I, you know, I fall short of the glory of God. But thankfully I have learned through my studying, through reading the word and through getting revelation and through discussions with people like yourself, like your mom, and, and.
Yeah. I have learned who, who Jesus is, and that he does, he does love us. You mentioned earlier that like he did come, like hold us accountable. He even raised the measure of accountability. Like it's no longer just like you or like, like murders. Just the sin. Like if you hate somebody, you've murdered them.
Why? If you lut after a woman, you've committed adultery and like, this is the thing where it's like, if you don't do anything in the spirit, like it's a sin. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So like, if you, this is like, people don't think that they sin as much as they do. Like you, God might have told you not to go to the mailbox at that time today.
Yeah. And, but you miss the mark. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. You, you don't know how much you are missing the mark. And then you say that you don't, basically, you're basically saying that you don't have sin, you're inferring it. But you know, John, I think John says that, you know, there there's no truth in that person.
So. Yeah. Yeah. That's so good. He did raise the bar. Yeah, he did. And so, you know, with that, with that commandment to love, that covers all of it. I mean, yeah. Because that is the standard. It does, uh, that is not justifying you to, to do wrong or to do things mm-hmm. That go against what he has called as and his plan and his creation.
That doesn't justify that, that doesn't give you, that doesn't give you like Mm. Um, an open door for that. What it does is no, it allows you to come to repentance. It allows you to turn to him. It allows you to be mm-hmm. There's an understanding of why we do these things. He understands the fleshly desires.
He gets it. I mean, yeah. He experienced all of them. He had to experience it all. Yeah. He experienced it all for us and, and took, took everything on the cross for us. Um, yeah. And he fulfilled it. He finished it so that we don't have to, I don't have to go in and I, I, I can't remember who says this, um. Maybe it's Andrew Womack, but he talks about, you know, I don't have to pay, I don't have to go to to court and pay my fine.
Jesus paid it. He went to jail for it. Yeah, he served the time. Yeah. I don't have to serve it. It's been served. Yeah. The good and faithful servant already per did the good thing and I'm, my, my old self was nailed on that cross. Before I was born, my salvation was, was secure. Yeah. You know, the good and faithful servant already did the work.
Right. And that's why I want him to be my Lord, because. E is the one that had it, right? Not me. He is, yeah. So I'm gonna follow him and I'm gonna remain in, in his presence. And at him, you know, him leading me versus me going, oh, I got this on what I'm doing. Well then you're still in glory from God. Like, totally.
It's so interesting, like you, you thinking that you can do it on your own and always in like this performance mind state, like, I'm, I'm always trying to siphon glory from God and my ability to do it, and God's just looking at me like, what are you doing? Just, just look at me. Like, stop looking at your sin and like your ability and your performance, you're, you're creating so much fear, shame, and condemnation and it's paralyzing your entire life and you're hurting the people around you.
So because Jesus replaced the old, um, the sacrificial system, Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. Um. Why do you think it's significant that, um, his sacrifice doesn't need to be repeated there? The accountability for sin is so much higher. You would need to get saved every second. Yeah. You know what I mean?
Right. Like, you would need to get saved multiple times a day to be able to be actually saved. Yeah. And this just like, and, and that's the thing where it's like you have to confess or else you're not gonna get saved. Well, like, I have to confess that I'm a sinner, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and like it's not, it's not like up to me to maintain my salvation.
I can't, I can't maintain it because we're still, uh, applying the same standard to my performance again. Yeah. When it's never been about my performance. Right. It's never been about that. You know, it takes me back. I, I know, I, I did a podcast with, uh, dentally and where I talked about, um, the abortion that I had mm-hmm.
And, and how I received salvation, or at least I think I did. It was much longer after that. Like, it was like, um, 20 years after, um, I did that. And so, and I thought, wow, how did, like, I, and I almost took my life after that. So, yeah. And, and so he saved me from that. He had somebody come and anyways, that whole story, if you wanna hear about it, you can go back and, and watch the podcast.
But, um, it was, it was really powerful. It was a good one. It was, it was. So, I, I mean, when I thought about that in bible college, when I had that revelation, I was like, oh my word, what it. A forgiving and loving God. He, he wrote you in the Book of Lamb. Yeah. You know, and, and he, he knew you were, you were gonna do all the things and you were gonna go through all the experiences, but he knew that you were, he, he was gonna get you back.
You know? Yeah. And, and it's so funny, like, I, I was saying it was so funny earlier, like the podcast that we just filmed yesterday mm-hmm. About like, I guess my new age journey. Yeah. It was like, I was saved when I was really young and I got baptized when I was really young. Mm-hmm. But, and I, and I do think I was saved in that moment.
Yeah. But I, um, I, I, I totally took a derail and like went super new age and, and honestly, I, I was saying like, I don't even really believe in the Bible. Mm-hmm. And just, just saying all sorts of stuff. I didn't even know who Jesus was. Yeah. But I, I do believe that, like, I, I claimed him and I do believe that I was still saved, but I, he continued, he wooed me.
Yeah. Like he made sure that I came back. Yeah. You know what I mean? And, and. That's the thing where it's like, it's hard to, I think it's really hard to lose your salvation 'cause God will never give up on you. Yeah. You know it. And it's not up to your performance. No, it's not. And you know, so often, you know, we get mad at people and then we just write 'em off and we're, we're done with them.
Okay. Bye. You, you failed me, so I'm done with you. Yeah. I mean, I had family members that have done it. I've done it. Um, and so then we project that standard onto God and that is so that, that's just silly of us to do that. Yeah. 'cause God's not like that. He isn't like that at all, dude. Yeah. He, he just, you're accepted.
He loves you. And you know, the word says he leaves the 99 for the one, so he goes after the one and he, he went after me and you know, I've, mm-hmm. You know, I've told people, you gotta seek. Got out. And somebody said to me once, well. Why he's not seeking me out. Oh, yes, he is. He's chasing after you. Oh yeah.
He is putting people, you just can't see it. That's right. He's putting people in your pathway that know him and love him, that are sharing the gospel with you over and over and over again. Or that word is coming out. He is, he is seeking after you. When you start to look for him, it's just like, have you heard that saying where if you start noticing red cars or say, you know, you'll.
You. Yeah. You talk about red cars, you start seeing red cars everywhere, whatever. It's the same. Yeah. When you start looking for God, yeah. You'll see him in everything. You'll see him and he, and he's there and he always has been. Yeah. Once you kinda start to like, confirm it a little bit and like understand that that's happening, then you, you're like, oh my gosh, it was everywhere.
How did I not see this before? He is been chasing me down forever now. Yeah. I can see him along. It's so funny 'cause like, um, through like, uh, like every like part of the journey, like we can't, it's so hard to like see it in the middle of it. Like even right now, like sometimes there's like things that are hard to see, but when it's like a few miles down the road and you look back, you can see God was written all over it all the time.
I know. And when I was in Bible college and I was given my message or sermon or whatever, and I, I mean I had this whole plan and I was just gonna go in this direction and, and then he just derailed me and I went to the right. Yeah. You know, and I started ta and I was like, oh my gosh, I never saw this. I did not see him there.
I, yeah, I, I just didn't, and I thought so many times, Tyler, the, I, the amount of times I thought God had forsaken me, I didn't think. Yeah. I was, I was like, I'm so pathetic in the choices I've made and the things that I've done. He doesn't want me, why would he want me? Like, anyways, it's, it's really, there's that voice of the enemy that's that shame.
Mm-hmm. It's, it's the, the, the shame spiral. It'll just keep, keep convincing you to do more bad things. Yeah. And to not, and, and to keep feeling bad about yourself and get you so focused and self-obsessed with yourself. Yep. That you just keep messing up and there's that freedom removed. That freedom is removed.
Exactly. And absolute. Absolutely. What was that? Romans seven. Um, and it's just removed. You're part of, you're now part of the, the death because you just get in this cycle and it's, and it's just so unhealthy for your thoughts. It's unhealthy for your heart. And it's just not even true. It's not even true as simple as like, salvation and like these things are like, it is still like kind of complex to wrap our mind around it a little bit, you know?
Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I like that. He's like, like there's everybody's so like black and white in their thinking, I feel like a lot of the time. And like, I'm guilty of it too. Like, it's so easy to be like, it's, I have to maintain and work for my salvation. Mm-hmm. Because this verse says this and this verse says this.
Yeah. And then the other side is like, oh, I'm completely free and I don't have to do anything. Right. You know? And, and, and he kind, he I like that. Um, this just, this covers all of it. Yeah. And like there, I feel like there's no, like, it shouldn't leave a question after like really trying to like, understand what's being said here and what God's really meaning.
'cause Yes. Like salvation is a completely free gift, you know? Yes. Um, and, and, but like. It's, uh, with Ephesians 2, 8, 9, like everybody likes to say like, I'm saved by grace through faith, but like at the end of it, like I, for God's works, like not of my works, but for his works in the hopes that I do something for him.
Yeah, totally. 'cause he purchased me, John was talking when he was talking about Jesus in John 1 29. He says, behold the lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world. Jesus took it. Yeah, he took it. Yeah. Not, not me, not Tyler, not Denley. Yeah. Nobody else but Jesus. He took it. Absolutely. And, and when you get a free gift from a friend, that's a really nice, extravagant gift.
Yeah. You don't, I mean, you, you, you. It. That person is not expecting you to pay for it. That person is not expecting you to earn it back. Right. Especially if they're actually good. I mean, some people are, I guess are manipulative, but Yeah. But God is good. Right? Right. You can trust that God is good and that he doesn't want you to have to re to, to repay it, but you want to repay it.
Yeah, because it was nice, because you're so thankful. You just naturally want to Yeah, because you're so thankful, because you're like, oh my gosh, yeah, he loves me. You see that love? Yeah. That's why love, that's why love trumps everything, because you see that and you're like, oh, I, I don't wanna be like this.
I wanna be like him. I wanna be like you. Yeah, absolutely. And, and that obedience is not a prerequisite for, for salvation. It's, it's a, it's a response to salvation. That's exactly it. And it's natural. And it's not something you have to, like, strive and stress about. It's just something that God's going to, like, you can have faith and trust that God's gonna work in you to produce good fruits.
Mm-hmm. And if you keep trying to like, earn the good fruits yourself and try to create with all these dead works, you're, you're not going to create the fruits that you think you're creating. You're not you. That is so good. Yeah. That is so good. You're not going to get what you think and what you think you wanna get or what you think you're going, it's just not gonna happen.
Um, yeah. Because you are operating out of love. Exactly. You're not in love. Exactly. You're not operating from a place of love is a better way to put it. A lot of these people that like are really trusting in like their ability to like maintain their salvation or keep their salvation or like mm-hmm. Even earn their salvation.
I feel like they're not really trusting in Jesus for salvation. Oh. And it makes me kind of fear for their salvation a little bit. For sure. Yeah. Um, we need faith the size of a mustard seed. So, um, so when you look at that mustard seed, it's pretty small. And when somebody is taking that step, that is faith.
So I didn't know Jesus until I've gotten to know him. Right. Yeah. I've had to spend the time in the word, I've had to spend the time listening to people, um, talk about him and get to know him. Mm-hmm. And, and see a representation of him. And that's why it is so important to have a relationship with Jesus, you know?
Mm-hmm. I've told this, one of the things I've taught my children. As I've said to them, you know, these phones are great. We can call people and we can talk to people, but mm-hmm. At the end of the day, sometimes there's gonna be moments where you, that phone's not gonna work. Whether it's 'cause you didn't plug it in, whether it's because something went down there, you, you don't know.
Mm-hmm. So I wouldn't rely on, man, I wouldn't rely on that. I would rely on the Holy Spirit. I would rely on my relationship with Jesus. And so I have Yeah. Forced my kids at different times to do that. And, um mm-hmm. And I think it's so important that we do that. And the only way you can do that, um, the word says, um, my sheep hear my voice.
And so I listen to him and I, I declare that, that I am his sheep and I hear his voice and I shall not mm-hmm. Listen to that of a stranger. I declare that all the time and I declare that over my children. Um, yeah. And so I think it's so important that we know him, you know, like I. Dentally can't talk about me.
Um, like she knows me without knowing me. She doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, and she's had to, we've had intimate conversations, we've built a friendship. Um, we've built a relationship and that's what Jesus is wanting with us is a relationship. Mm-hmm. Not just where you put the money in and you're asking for a request.
Like, fulfill this prayer. Fulfill this prayer. No. He wants you to get to know his word and to see, um, his character and who he really is. You know, I, I think that there's people that can like, really get so good at hearing from God that they can like, look so much like Jesus. Mm-hmm. And it, it's because they have a relationship, because they can, they walk with him super consistently, you know, like with like going to the mailbox even at the Right, right.
Or wrong time. Mm-hmm. You know? 'cause God maybe wanted you to, to say something to your kid or something before you went to the mailbox, but you didn't do it because you just were so excited for whatever you got in the mail. Yeah. You know, like. There, it, it, it's even in those small things that like is is doing the good works Yeah.
Of God, is it that, that's being obedient, you know, it's so easy to kind of feel like, like this pressure to like strive mm-hmm. Um, when it comes to like serving at church Yes. Or getting people saved or these things. Mm-hmm. But it's always that fear is always like a, a fear, uh, when you're looking at yourself too much.
Yeah. And you're looking at man, because when you, you know, I had that where I was at a church and if you didn't go on Sunday, if you didn't go during the week, if you didn't go to every single thing, then you're not just, you're not worthy and you're not, you're missing the boat and you're hurting yourself and you know, all these things.
And while I will say this, what kind of grace is that? Thank you. And I, I think it's important to go to church and it, it's important because you have a purpose there and, and then other people to lock arm in arm to get, to get spiritually fed and to feed others. It's important. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But if you can't make it to church.
Or you don't want to go to church? You know, I wouldn't recommend, you know, oh, I don't wanna go to church, I'm just not gonna go over. Yeah. I wouldn't recommend that. But if you're, if you're like, you know, I'm gonna stay home today and I'm gonna worship the Lord and I'm gonna do whatever, I'm gonna do my own thing.
You know, it's okay. You're not going to hell. Yeah. And you're still part of the kingdom, and you can still serve in the church and, um, you know, you're still a good person. Okay. You're still great. Yeah. Or you know, whatever. I just, that's the kind of stuff that, that the, the church is putting on people and I think it's important to have measurements of, um, of doing things like, yeah, it's important to go to church.
We go to church, my children go. So I'm not, I'm not saying that, but I am saying that you're not condemned because you don't go trying to empower people from shame in the law instead of empower people from grace. Yeah. Like, I feel like I do so much better. Um, I mean, I, I kind of struggle with being stubborn sometimes, so Yeah.
I, I do respond well with grace. Mm-hmm. And I have a really hard time when like, um, maybe like it's not said with like the right tone Yeah. Or some whatever, of course. Mm-hmm. Where I can feel like somebody's trying to put shame on me, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, because they're upset and I, I always, I mean, like, I, I can, it would be better if I just, you know, took what was actually being said instead of the tone, but Yeah.
'cause I could, you know, I get stubborn or whatever. Um, when I am motivated by, by grace and, and being like, it's okay. Like, let's just move forward and keep going. Right. Like, I'm so much better to respond to that than like, like if I Ms. Church at that church and they said, Hey, it's okay miss, but like, you, you should come.
It's fine. Like, it's a good time. It's, it's good for you. Yeah. You know? Mm-hmm. I would so much, I would do so much better of a job showing up for that. Yeah. 'cause I was motivated to do it by grace. Yeah. Totally. I wasn't motivated. Be out of fear, because then each time you go to church, this is what would happen to me.
I'd be like, oh, they're taking attendance on whether or not Lisa showed up and not because they wanted Yeah. To know if I was okay, but they wanted to know if I showed up and if I was deserving for the next level. And it's like, I don't, I don't care if I'm deserving for your next level. The Lord is my, um, he's my promoter.
He promotes me or demotes me. Like I You do, you boo You know, I, I have like a reverence from my pastor. Mm-hmm. And like, like his, like leadership. It's so hard to like. Probably receive that from like your leadership. Yeah. You know, because you do look up to them in a, in a way. Yeah. You know, they, they, you, they do hold you accountable.
These are people that you care about and you, you can care about their opinion and for sure. And what they think and, and 'cause they, they probably know the Bible better than most people, right. I mean mm-hmm. Um, and it's, it would be so hard to like hear that from that person and it would be such a trap I feel like, oh, it is awful.
And it does hold you back. And then, and then you do, you get in this, um, you know, the toilet bowl swirl, this circular motion where you're like, oh, I better do this. And it's no longer to serve the Lord. It's to serve the man. And Yep. We are to serve man for the Lord's sake, you know, we are to serve man and help them, but I'm not to serve them for their approval, I'm to serve them.
No, because that's what the Lord's called me to do. Yeah. So I'm to do his work and not, you know, not seek their approval. I just don't. And that's where, I think that's what has pushed people away is that condemnation. And maybe that's their intention. Maybe it's not, I don't know. I don't know the man's heart that's between them and the Lord.
Yeah. But I do know the effects or the fruit of, of the treatment of that. 'cause I know how I, and I'm the same way you are. If you're gonna shame me, then I'm like, Uhuh. Nope, you've lost me. You've lost me. But if you're gonna say, you know, encourage me. And I, and I watched it perfectly with the whole team, two, two different teams.
I watched a team where they made mistakes on the field, and the parents and the coaches were like, oh, it's okay. You'll come back. Keep going. Keep your head in the game. You know, everybody was cheering and clapping. Yeah. When they, when they, when they didn't do well. Then I watched on the other side when they didn't do well and the, ooh, it was not a pretty sight, and it was really, I just felt so bad for these kids.
I was like, oh, God. Love 'em. It's so much easier to respond positively to encouragement. It just so much easier. I, I want to, because you're like, okay, yeah, I did screw up, but it's all right. Okay. I'll do better next time. Yeah. And I learned from it. Yeah. And, and you're like, yep, you sure did. Okay, great. And if you didn't learn, yeah.
Okay. We'll keep teaching it. It's all right. Exactly, and it's no hard feelings and it's usually not a big deal. Right. It's usually not a big deal. Mm-hmm. I agree. Yeah. It's, that's a, that's a big one. That is a big one. And it's, we have to be really careful because it does turn people from, from the church and from Christ.
And you want other people to have a safe place to go to. You want them to be able to learn the words so that their lives can be changed by God. That's what God wants. He wants his people to, to come together and, and to join together, to talk and, and to learn more about him and to be more reflective of him.
That's, that's really it. It's all, it's all about the relationship. Yeah. Absolutely. And he doesn't want you to feel like you have to earn your salvation by or maintain it by any means. No. He just wants you to rest at him. No. You know, and that's where, man, that's where we have failed as man, because. There are, I think a lot of people struggling with that.
Yeah. Well, I, and I think like there's such, um, a problem with like social media and people, um, like really not understanding the context of certain verses like, faith Without Works is dead. Mm-hmm. Apart from me, I never knew you. Yeah. There will be no sacrifice. Like the one in Hebrews, you know, like, um, I mean like, I feel like there's kind of, um, almost people are relying on TikTok, um, and don't really have like a biblical literacy to really understand like, um.
Like the importance of like understanding how you're saved or mm-hmm. Um, just some of these things or like, or the law or the Old Testament or, or how some of this stuff works because it can trap you. Like if, if you're young and impressionable and new in your faith and still a baby, like, and you're looking for, you know, spiritual nourishment and you find it somewhere you're not supposed to get it.
Yeah. Like, it can be so destructive and, and it's, it's rough because like, when I first did it, like I had to, I think it's good to kind of like wade through those waters a little bit to kinda like understand how it works and Yeah. Understand like how much bondage some people are living in. Yeah. You know, but yeah.
I, I, I pray that people get released from that bondage because it's gnarly. It's, it's hard to live in shame and condemnation like that all the time. I mean, it's, it's just scary. Like, it, it, it's, it's so paralyzing and so, um, counterintuitive Yeah. To doing the good work of God, you know, to, to going. So it, what would you say to somebody then who, if, who is struggling with that, with that condemnation?
They don't have a church to go to. Yeah. They don't know what, what would you say? Um, uh. What, what would you say h how, how would they start their journey? How would they start this? Um, what would you say would be the best thing for them to do? I guess like the few or the two books that like really helped me with this were Ephesians and Romans.
So I would probably point them there. I would probably point them towards, um, teachings or teachers that are, are teaching this kind of, um, theology about like free grace, you know, about like how it is a free gift. Yeah. Um, and how salvation works because like, it is so important to understand. Right. Um, and I, I'd also try to like talk, talk it through with them about like, like what does a free gift really mean?
How was Jesus' sacrifice? The, the perfect sacrifice when it comes to the Old Testament and how sacrifices used to be, right. Um, and, and why we needed that and, and how it makes no sense to keep getting saved over and over and over again. Yeah. I think really like how counterintuitive it is to, um, always be in fear, right.
Instead of going, and then also, um, you know. Performing for God without God is no better than sinning. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like taking, like being obedient to what he is prompting to you to do and being with him and keeping your eyes on him is what he wants from you, not for you to like perform for him. Right. In some way, you know?
Um, because then, then that lies on you, then that's in your own, my in your own strength. Mm-hmm. And it's all about glorifying him and not me, you know? Yeah. And I think it's important that, um, for, I, I would say somebody if they're, you know, in their younger years, um, you know, in their twenties or early or late, late teens, you know, to find a church, a good Bible-based church, one that just, that isn't mixing religion into it.
And, and you'll, yeah. You'll be able to tell, especially people who have been rejected. You can tell. You can tell. Yeah. Um, and know that every church is, there's not one perfect church. There is not. The only perfect church is the one that when, when we come together with Christ in the end, yeah, that's the perfect church.
So there's going to be flaws and this and that. Um, but at the end of the day, you, you need to connect and connect with like-minded individuals. Birds of a feather flock together and so, amen. You do want to get with people and, and don't be afraid to, um, to talk to somebody and say, Hey, I'm new to Christianity.
I need help. Can you give me direction that, and if somebody helps you with that, that's when you know, you're, you're in probably in a good, good place. 'cause they'll wanna direct you there. Yeah, yeah. And, and like having a church that where you can, you can ask questions like talking to like leadership and have, and being able to talk to people that know the word, surrounding yourself with people that can talk, that know the word and know how this stuff works.
Like, it's, it's, yeah. I, I am kind of an isolator by nature, Uhhuh. Um, I'm a homebody. I like to be at home. Yeah. You know, in my own world, Uhhuh. So, um, it's hard for me to like, um, I, I wonder like how much I would've grown if I had, you know, really pursued finding like, um, like truly godly. Relationships. Yeah.
And like investing in them. Mm-hmm. Um, like at church, like at the church that I go to. Yeah. You know? 'cause even still now, like I, I'm not really engaged with my church. Um, it's kind of far from where I live, so it's hard for me to like, um, go surf. So I'm kind of wrestling with God on that. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, you know, like I, I, I, you know, he's, he's pulling me and I, and I want, I want to start doing it, but, um, just thinking like how, how a lot of these things could have been corrected earlier on.
Mm. And I, I think like, I've wasted a lot of time being scared about salvation. Well, it's, it's, it's just the wrestling and, and that's where it's like, well, you'll get there. And, and that's where Yeah. That's, you know, 'cause I, when, when I try to rush somebody, it's like, you know what? You, you've gotta give them the time to get there, to get where they're at or where they need to be.
Yeah. Give them that time. Yeah. And so it's like, you know what? You, you'll get there. I mean, Moses got there. He started at 80, right? Or 80 something. Yeah. Like it was, yeah, it was much later. So if you're starting in your twenties, thirties, four, I mean, you're, you're good. Um, yeah. Yeah. The point is, is to just start and you know, sometimes there's ebbs and flows where you go in deeper, it depends on what's going on in your life, and you go in deeper.
Yeah. And then, you know, you back off a little bit and usually that's when I meditate or I actually see God moving at those times and I'm like, oh, because before I was doing so much seeking and learning and so much seeking and learning and yeah, you get, you get, um, immersed into that, that you forget to sit there and just be with him, you know?
Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and do a plug right now. Um, the whole be still and no, we've got this, um, cup this, um, be still and no, these gifts from Red Ledger gifts.com. Check 'em out. Um, and, um, there's lots on there that you can enjoy. Uh, but, but being still, and, and that's where you get to see God and you get to know him.
Yeah. Um, I mean, learning is so great. I've, I mean, the books that I've read that mm-hmm. That expand more on the Bible, it's really helped me. Um, yeah. So I think it's really important that you just continue in the word, but you need to continue there. 'cause there are a lot of things out there that will veer you off and you have to be careful with that.
Absolutely. And, and, um, it, like the Christian journey, like you said, it's just so like, not linear. You're on a up season and then you hit your first down mm-hmm. And then you're like, what am I doing? What's, what, what's going on? Yeah. You know, I haven't been in the word that much lately and like I don't have like the same passion that I used to.
Yeah. Um, like I remember the first time it happened to me, I got so psyched out. 'cause I was like, am I like losing it? I know. I thought the same thing, but. The, the ability to just, um, you know, like trust God that he's gonna finish his work. Mm-hmm. You know, like I, I don't have to live in shame when I have maybe an off season where I might be struggling a little bit more with like my faith or whatever.
I can just trust him and rest in him and know that he's gonna continue to work in my heart. 'cause I can't do that. Yeah. You know, he's gonna, he's the one that's gonna fix me, not me. Yeah. Because he's proven himself. You know, one of the questions I had had, um, it was Matthew, I say seven. Seven. Yes. Ask and it will be given to you.
Seek and you will find knock and it will be open. Mm-hmm. To you, you, for everyone who asks, receives, and he who seeks fines and to him who knocks it will be opened. I, when my heart changed and I was like, okay Lord, I really wanna know the truth. And I don't wanna know his truth. Her truth. I wanna know your truth.
I wanna know the truth. Yeah. And I really got down on my hands and knees and I said, okay, that's what your word says. So I'm asking you to show me that, reveal this to me. And I'm telling you what Tyler, I have been amazed at whenever I bring this scripture, these two scriptures up to the Lord when I have confusion mm-hmm.
Um, I get such rapid clarity. Um, because he's faithful to his word, right? Yeah. And, uh, he's not a liar. And, and he shows me, um, because I'm like, I'm knocking. I wanna find out. I wanna know what you want me to know. I wanna know your ways. I wanna do your ways. And when he shows me that, I'm like, oh my gosh.
And, and he had slammed doors shut for me. And I'm thankful those doors will never be open. Um, and so, praise God, I've said this before, beliefs are ever changing. So if you stand so concrete on, well, I believe this and I'm not altering it, you know? Yeah. Um, that's not a good place to be in, um, because there is a lot of of information in this book.
Um, and so you gotta be flexible with the Lord and allow him, allow him to be your leader and allow him Yeah. To change your heart and your mind through his word. Absolutely. Yeah. It, and it's, it's so interesting to like, 'cause you know, everybody has seasons where like, they aren't like there all the time, you know?
Mm-hmm. But like the moments where you are like in that secret place, like in that room, in that closet. Mm-hmm. And, and you're with him and you do bring those things to him. Like it is crazy how much, um, how much it does change, uh. Like your mind Yeah. About what's literally going on in your life. Um, I know, and, and the amount of peace and like the amount of the, the, the spiritual, um, I guess blessings that even just come from just like seeking him out and seeking those answers and those hard, hard questions.
Like how there's so much peace in it and, and it's always better than the, the answer to those questions are always better than you think, which is, and don't you feel so blessed? Like, I don't know. Yeah. Do you, do you, and, and, and your wife, you guys read the word and, and then do you have these conversations where.
You're just in awe of him and just, yeah, this, I enjoy it. I'm, I'm like, I could live like this all day, every day. I don't need to do anything else. I know. Like, I love this, I love having conversations with your mother, with you. I look forward to conversations with Nicole. I look for, I like, I just, I love Jesus and I love talking about him.
He's just so great and wonderful, and I love these revelations that each person gets and brings. I'm like, oh, man. That's rad. That's so good. That's really good. I love it. Praise God, man. I love it. Isn't it so cool? It's so cool that we get to, it really is to do this and have fun. Yeah, it is. Okay. Do you have any last words to say, you know, even though we are free from sin, we still might wrestle with it, and that's okay.
You know? Mm-hmm. You're not condemned because you, you know, you're, you're struggling with sin. And I think as that pertains to like Romans six 14, I guess when I first read it, I was like, oh, this could be taken outta context, couldn't it? Yeah, it really can. Um, I. I have really enjoyed this conversation with you.
I, um Yeah, me too. Seeing your perspective on it, um, especially when it comes to salvation. I think it's so important that Yeah. Yeah. We consider who the Lord is, who Jesus is, and not put mm-hmm. Project our measurement upon him. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, and I think if we start to come from a place of grace and understanding, um, even for ourselves and in fact so much for ourselves mm-hmm.
Um, we will start to get to where he's at because he has it for us. Mm-hmm. He's given it to us. And so I think when we are just open to receiving that, instead of condemning ourselves and condemning others, and just coming from a place of, you know, this is what Jesus did, he became the ultimate sacrifice, his bloodshed covered.
I covered the sins of mine, past, present, and future. Mm-hmm. I am accepted and I do choose him as my Lord and Savior, and I am part of the kingdom now and forever. Ugh. It's just praise God. So, um, one of the biggest things I've learned from you, um, 'cause I, I've ed all the podcasts you were on and, um, I like your, your, uh, perspective on grace and like, even like, it should be extended to yourself too, like mm-hmm.
It, it, it is like obvi, like it's obvious to like extend grace to other people, but it's not always so like, obvious inside to like, extend it to yourself. Yeah. Um, when like, nobody's asking you to beat yourself up, you know? Yeah, yeah. If people would've heard or have, I mean, people heard my, the, the voices in my head or however I speak to myself or mm-hmm.
The, um, it, it's not pleasant and I've had to Yeah. Retrain my brain. Um, yeah. Uh, 'cause I haven't been good enough and. I've really failed at a lot of things, and so many people know it. And you know, I look this way. I don't look that way. I mean, I grew up in California where you had to look a certain way.
You had to be so thin, you had to be this, you know, and I, I didn't meet those measurements. Like, yeah, I'm not that person. I am who God created me to be, and that's who I am. And so I had to come to a place where there's grace and forgiveness that I don't meet other people's standards. Yeah, dude. Yeah. I have to forgive myself for that.
It's okay. I don't meet your standards. It's okay. And it's so funny. Yeah. How, how, like, how, why would I beat myself up for, for just being me or being who, who I was or just making a mistake? Like Yeah, it was paid for. Like, no, God's not asking me to beat myself up to, to make it right. You know? No, no, no. And that doesn't, that doesn't do anything.
And you know, it's been, no seeing my children has really. Helped with that because they are a reflection of you. Yeah. And so when you see your children doing that, you're like, oh, I do that. Mm-hmm. And you just are devastated and you go, I don't, I don't wanna do that for them. Yeah. Nor for myself. And you see how, um, counterintuitive and, and how, how hard it is on you and it, and it just stops the walk and it, and you're not, you're not living for Christ and you're not, you're not receiving that grace.
You're not, it's like, you know these, when you're desiring something and like you were saying earlier, this friend gives you this amazing gift and you're just refusing it. Mm-hmm. Why? Yeah. Why? No, I'm gonna receive it. I receive that gift and I don't receive the condemnation. I, you know, yeah. That's my saying.
I don't receive that. Nope. Amen. I love that. I've, I started saying that so much too since I, it's good. Uh, did you say it so much? Yeah. Like, I, I've known about it, but when he said it, I was like, yeah, I don't receive that. I'm gonna start saying that all the time. Like, and you have to say it out loud. Yeah.
Like, when a doctor tries to tell me I'm sick, I don't receive that, that I'll tell it your face too, that I'll be bold about it. I don't receive that, but thank you. I understand where you're coming from, but I don't receive that. Totally. Yep. I don't receive that. Uhhuh. Thanks for your suggestion. It's been awesome.
Because if I don't say that, what happens is I get in my head and then I start to get in agreement with that, so. Exactly. You start to agree with it. Yep. Nope, I'm gonna agree with God's word. Yep. Amen. That's good. All right. Well, I think we've covered a lot. I mean, I got more, I got all my. I think we killed it.
So I did. I think we did good. Yeah, it's good. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. We appreciate it. Uh, we appreciate you being here. Um, again, like and subscribe and let us know in the comments your thoughts. Thank you guys. See you.