Scott (00:01)
Hey everybody, welcome to a less than ordinary episode of your Fabulous Learning Nerds. I'm Scott Schuette, your host, and with us, the amazing, the talented, the incredibly good looking Dan Coonrod is in the house.
Sam (00:17)
you
Daniel (00:23)
I like that. like the like a less than ordinary is it what should what shouldn't be more than ordinary though?
Scott (00:28)
How you doing, Dan?
Daniel (00:35)
That's good mistake, that's awesome! I'm fair to Midland!
I was going to say I could be less than ordinary. I'm okay with that.
Scott (00:47)
I meant more than ordinary. I'm trying to be different. It was OK. It did. You had to think about it, right? Yeah, for sure. But you know.
Daniel (00:49)
You know what? It's awesome. It was good! It good! It caught my attention. That's a job, For everybody still listening, I promise this will be a more than ordinary episode.
Scott (01:01)
It will. It will. Yeah, just try to, you know, change it up a little bit. You know, change up those intros a little bit. Yes. Yes.
Daniel (01:07)
It's good. Yes. Yes. I feel like, I mean, like we talk, we talk about this, I feel like I do the outro and if it weren't for the weekly ask, you could just take my outro and record it and make it static. Cause I say almost the same stuff, but every week I'm like, all right, how do I make this different? And it's good. I like it.
Scott (01:24)
Yeah, I was thinking about that too. Yeah. Well, it's live. You know, it's a good thing. It's not Memorex. Ooh, that's a deep cut.
Daniel (01:33)
Wow deep old cut my god, dude, it's not wow
Scott (01:36)
Deep cut, right? Live it's Memorex, cool. You know who's also live and not Memorex? That's Zeta everybody.
Daniel (01:45)
Who's that?
Scott (01:56)
Zera!
Brian Walch (01:57)
do that.
Zeta (01:58)
God, how are you doing?
Scott (02:00)
I'm more than ordinary. How are you doing?
Zeta (02:04)
Good, one would say I'm almost... excellent?
Scott (02:10)
Yeah, you led me a little bit on that one, Party On. my gosh. Yeah, Bill and Ted. Love Bill and Ted. Although, I will be honest, the last movie kind of missed the mark for me. That's my thing.
Zeta (02:11)
Party on dudes. Be excellent to each other.
Daniel (02:22)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Zeta (02:23)
Didn't have George. It did not have George Carlin in it, so that was a major blow. It would have been.
Scott (02:27)
That would have been that would have been a nifty trick right to have George Carlin in that movie that would have been neat They could have probably done it They you know, they they deep faked the actor from I forget his name from alien and Romulus That's a complete deep fake there. The family said okay to that that that's what we can expect Right. So George Earl Jones passed away. Although he did you know
gift his voice to Hollywood so Darth Vader's voice will live on in perpetuity. Yes, so that's cool. But I wouldn't doubt seeing him again in deep fake land, so that's interesting. That's great. I'm totally happy that you are happy and that is fantastic. Folks, we have a great guest with us tonight. He's been waiting a while to come on the show, so I'm super excited to learn.
what he's got to talk about. And we're going to learn all about him in a little segment that we call, What's Your Deal?
Brian!
Brian Walch (03:37)
Hello, welcome.
Scott (03:40)
What's your deal, my most... more than ordinary friend?
Brian Walch (03:49)
Well, I am a certified executive coach. based up in Anchorage, Alaska. So I don't know where everybody listening is at, but we're just above freezing today. so I'm an executive coach up here in Anchorage, Alaska. I help organizations develop their managers and build out their management culture and management teams. I came from a background of software development, helped build a consulting firm from 20 employees to over 200.
Through that experience, I ran recruiting, HR, businesses and business development and kind of bring all that experience and leverage and stuff that I did there into my coaching practice to help managers.
Scott (04:33)
Well, that's really great. Help us understand how you got from where you were to where you are, like a little bit more on your journey, if that's cool.
Brian Walch (04:42)
Yeah, it's funny how people get into the people space, especially as a software developer where I'm pretty much an introvert. when we were pretty small, I started doing recruiting and I started interviewing people. And as we grew, I just continued to do that more and more. And then we got to the point where we needed some HR, dedicated HR support. So I ran HR for many years.
You know, through all that I just discovered I really like working with people like the the the challenges, the the rewards are just much higher on both sides. And so I just kind of continued that journey. And then we got to a point in our company where, you know, kind of my generation of employees that were moving into retirement, we had a new group coming in and leadership. And I could have.
kind of restarted my career there and done some other things for another 10 years or so maybe until retirement. Or I could leave and figure out what I want to do with the rest of my life. And that's what I did. I knew I wanted to do something more with people, less technical, and decided to leave and pursue coaching and consulting on my own.
Scott (05:57)
Well, you're doing good works and we love people like you that are doing good works. And we've got a lot of things to be talking about, especially when it comes to helping our managers and our leaders grow. So without further ado, everybody, let's go ahead and dive into our topic of the week.
Hey, this week's topic is how managers can change the world. Brian, super, super important topic, but I've got one question for you.
yes so what why why is this important where we talk about this today
Brian Walch (06:44)
Well, I believe managers can change the world because if you think back to your experiences with managers and you think about how they affect how you feel about work, and then you think about when you leave work and how the feelings you have about work affect your personal health, your personal connections, your relationships, how you show up in your community.
A manager can make all the difference in how somebody feels about work. And when they leave, that's going to impact their family, people, the friends that they're with, their relationships, their community. So that's why I just, think it is so important that we focus on managers because high level strategy, big ideas are all important, but managers are the ones that have the direct impact on employees and how they feel in their lives. And that impacts everything else in our world. Plus the what?
Scott (07:43)
I think I heard somewhere that people don't leave jobs, they leave their managers. critical component, right? And so that is great. So in a line with this, let's talk about their impact on the organization. Aside from the, I want to keep my people around and help them grow, what are some of the things that managers
due to have a larger impact on their organization.
Brian Walch (08:15)
Well, if you think about a manager's role, one, they're kind of that cog between the strategy and the employees. So what we used to say, or said, too, that you have as many cultures as you have managers. So if you think about that impact in a bigger organization where
You know, there's ideas coming from the top and then managers are implementing them in very different ways. That creates a lot of angst for employees moving back and forth. So in terms of like impact to the organization, having some continuity across your managers can make it so your employees have more opportunities to to advance more opportunities to move around and stay with that company. So that kind of your point of like
keeping employees around. The second one, though, is they know how all the things are working. They're the ones that have kind of the detail. And so if you have managers that are disengaged, which we have a lot of disengaged managers, unfortunately, they see all these things and they're just keeping it to themselves, as opposed to sharing what might improve. so businesses are just losing a lot of operational efficiency.
then we also have this idea of managers kind of competing against each other, know, five stones. And so if you can get a management culture where they're working together and there's some collaboration, you're going to have an opportunity for more efficiency at the management level above.
My thoughts.
Scott (10:01)
Okay.
Zeta (10:01)
yeah, so like management is almost like the translation layer between the vision, which is the ones who are higher above them, to the actual actions, which is the people who are doing those steps. That's a very important place to be as someone who's kind of like translating what the actual path is to the actionable goals that their team can do.
Brian Walch (10:29)
Yeah. And we've seen it so much with the work environments we have, whether it's hybrid or even people returning to office or trying to figure that all out. That's just one example of it's almost not just a translation layer. It's a value add component because it's like we have strategy. How does that translate? And then what are we hearing? And how do we interpret those actions back up?
and work together. it's a cohesive translation layer that does value add.
Zeta (11:06)
Yeah, it's definitely an important step.
Daniel (11:07)
I like how you-
was about to say, sorry for interrupting. I was gonna say, I like that because so often, like when I'm talking to people and just talk about their careers and stuff and talking about like what their trajectory is, they talk to me about like not knowing how to talk to their leaders. And I know like when I was in a management role, I'd say a you know, quarter of my job was just translating. It was just like seeing like, hey, my team wants this.
Leadership wants this. How do I find the spot in the middle where everybody walks away happy? And what does that look like? And like it was a huge lift, it a huge component, at least for how I was managing and how I was operating in that space. So I love to hear like this translation layer. That makes a lot of sense to me.
Scott (11:45)
You
Brian Walch (12:03)
And Daniel, I think it's a really good point because that is a part of a manager's role. And it's not something they typically, it's not a skill they have coming into management. Right. And so they get to a certain point, they kind of start the journey of management and they're doing all the work and then they get to a point. And if they don't recognize that's a skill they need to develop, can get very frustrating and kind of plateau their career. But you're right. It's an absolutely critical skill that they have to develop.
Daniel (12:34)
You know, it's funny, I'm just curious your thoughts on this. know, I see the studies and just as I talk to people, as they think about their professional trajectory, I hear fewer and fewer people talking about that, wanting to go into that management space. They're like either I'm fine where I'm at, or they plan on moving sideways to another role, sometimes even another company. Just your expertise, your two cents, like what do you think is driving that like...
that desire to disconnect from like these leadership management level roles.
Brian Walch (13:13)
There's a lot of things, but I think one is you could call it bad examples. But then I also think it's we don't, so many organizations don't clarify and invest in a management layer strategy. You know, what they do is they say, we're getting to the size where we need, we need some management and you're one of our top performers. Surely you can do management.
They add on some management responsibilities to that person, but they also have to do some of their individual contributor work and they want to. And they only do so good at it, partly because they're split, partly because maybe they didn't want to do it. And so they're not a great manager. And then people look at them and say, I don't want to do that. That's not what I want to do. Be overtaxed, deal with all the negative, not have fun doing the technical work I like doing now. It's not worth it. And so.
I think that's a big part of what I've seen of driving people to not want to move into management.
Scott (14:21)
interesting you bring that up because I truly believe like there's lot of really good people who get promoted into leadership without competency and that happens because I'm really good at something so I'm really good at my job just like you said I'm gonna add on responsibilities for you and we're gonna go ahead and put you in charge of people without the competency and that creates opportunities all across the board right it's just not a really good idea but it's done
all the time. We generally call it the Peter principle, right? And people again promoted two levels above their competency. So as you think about that, or as we think about that, are some of the things, I'm a new manager, what are some of the things that I should get good at right away? Or what should my priorities be so that I could be successful and then maybe even grow and get promoted?
Brian Walch (15:21)
As a manager. Yeah, I guess just really quickly on your first point, I do think organizations would be well served to think about how they select people for promotion into management and then give them some opportunities to understand the scope and the breadth of management before they move them in. Because the other thing that happens is people get promoted into management and they're like, gosh, this isn't what I thought.
Scott (15:22)
I sure as a manager, for sure, yeah.
Brian Walch (15:50)
But now they're at higher salary. you know, it's kind of a, a negative if they step out of management, it's going to be hurtful to their career. And so they kind of feel compelled to stay there even if they're not enjoying it. And so I think even thinking about that new manager of like the step below, get promoted. Think about how can an organization really prepare that individual for when they make that step, they're fully committed.
to some level, how things change. I think when a manager gets into management, one of the first things they need to be thinking about is their personal productivity system, that's what I call it. But just the demands of management are going to be much higher and the things that you were doing in the past probably won't work. And if what happens is,
managers, they don't kind of upgrade their systems. They don't upgrade their ways of thinking. And so they just start working harder to make their existing systems work. And it just leads to kind of a that's why we have so many managers being burned out. So that's the first thing is, is just figuring out like your, your, processes for managing your tasks, your skills at time management and priority management. And then what we, what we do is we have a
set of four domains that we talk about the different areas you need to be thinking about developing. And we call it the practice stage, but it's your relationships and influence. So just thinking about what are some of the relationships that I need to develop at this early stage in my career? Like I got to have a good relationship with my boss. I got to have a good relationship with my employees. And then what skills and experience do I need? And you know, you could look at a wide breadth of skills. So it's like, just, just pick two or three and say, how am going to use those? Like,
Like to Dan's point, I need to get my communication skills better in terms of talking up the chain. I need to be more confident in that area. You might need to start working on delegation skills, you know, those things. But just identify two or three and how you're going to use those. And then getting clear on the results that you need to deliver on, like what is success? And then the last thing is your systems. And that's what I was talking about, like personal systems.
You might need to know some technical systems now that you're a manager. And you might need to start figuring out kind of how operationally how things are working with your department.
Scott (18:26)
Yeah, really good things to think about. I like how you brought up, like, I got to figure out my systems because I feel like everybody that's new in leadership goes through the same process, especially if they haven't been prepared for it, which is, okay, well, in addition to my regular job, I got this. And so we end up being very functional in our leadership, right? So, hey, listen, I'm going to help everybody get everything done. And if we get everything done, then we win. But it
the nuances are so much more important at that role, right? So one of my learnings was like, okay, the organization is no longer paying me for how much I can produce myself. The organization is paying me for not only how much we can produce together as a team,
But the thought leadership that we put into how those things get put together, innovation, you know, and all that other groovy stuff is equally as important to the organization. And if you don't think about that, I think you can get stuck or sometimes feel like you're in a trap.
Brian Walch (19:41)
Yeah, I agree.
Scott (19:45)
Awesome. you know, go ahead.
Brian Walch (19:46)
And I was just going to say one of my early learnings was just focusing too much on results and not enough on people. I mean, as a young manager, I got burned so much because I'm like, hey, we're driving toward the goal. Everybody's really happy. And it turns out a couple of people weren't really happy. And then it came out. so that's the reason why we add relationships in there. It's so important to think about what do you want in your relationships?
And that has to be personal. Like, I can't tell you what that relationship is like. You have to consciously think about it and be intentional about it.
Daniel (20:24)
So talk about relationships. What do you think are some things that people, that managers, new managers can go out to do to improve not just their interpersonal relationships, but their relationships with the business. They're kind of think, breadth and depth, so to speak. What can they do to improve that?
Brian Walch (20:51)
You mean like outside of their department? that what mean?
Daniel (20:56)
I mean, sorry, it's kind of two parts. cheating. I'm asking two questions. like both like inside of their department and just to the business at large. Like if you're a new manager and you're like, man, like, like, how do I, how do I get better at like communicating? How do I get better at building relationships? Like, what do think new managers should be doing?
Brian Walch (21:15)
Well, the number one thing is for your employees, a new manager should be having one-on-ones on a weekly basis with all their employees. whether they're doing that or not, they should be. And they should be auditing those. then, so that's number one. I'm a big believer in even the methodologies and the things I do.
I'm always talking about like, take action, take a small action, learn and grow. And so when you ask like, how do I improve my relationships or my communication skills, find a place to try to practice that, try something, reflect, learn and grow. So that's what the one on ones are a good place to do that. And then, you know, I'm just a big fan of like,
people like sharing what they're doing. And so go out and interview, talk to some people like your peers, like another manager, and then somebody that's in, like if you have your site set on a promotion, build relationships with people in that next level. Kind of find out what are their challenges, what are they doing? And you may discover that one of those people actually becomes a great mentor to you. So it takes a little bit of proactive.
engagement, but again, it's not overwhelming. can once a month schedule a outside interview call.
Daniel (22:47)
I like that. That's awesome.
Scott (22:50)
You talk about one-on-ones. Is there a right way or a wrong way to conduct a one-on-one? feel like it's a non-negotiable in leadership. Like you should do it and you should do it on a weekly basis. Like folks, if you lead people and you're not talking to them, structured conversations on a weekly basis, you're missing out, right? I just feel it's that important.
Brian, could you help us understand what makes up a good one-on-one conversation and what are some things that maybe they would maybe want to avoid?
Brian Walch (23:29)
Yeah, definitely. So the best format I have come across is from the group manager tools. They've done a lot of research and it's really simple and it makes sense to me. And their structure is really simple. Like first, always start with the employee. Like let the employee talk first. So it's 10 minutes of them, 10 minutes of you, 10 minutes about the future. Now you're gonna have an employee that's gonna come and...
going to have a lot going on and they're going to need more than 10 minutes and that's fine. So it's not like, you know, you don't need to be regimented about the, those timelines or that agenda. There'll be plenty of times when they have more, there will times when they have less and you might have more. So anyway, I really like that 10 minutes about them, 10 minutes for you, 10 minutes about the future. I am just partly, this is my, my anal nature about time, but I just tell people, keep it to 30 minutes. Like don't
Don't go over because what happens to all of us is if we can't count on that time, then, you know, if I come in and I talk, talk, talk, and I go over five, 10, 15 minutes, the next time the employees are to be like, here comes Brian again. And it's going to be a 45 minute call and he's going to be kind of going on and on about some challenge and they're not going to look forward to it. And it's not going to be a very good one-on-one. And then I'm not going to be very encouraged. And it's just kind of downward spiral.
So have things that, ways that you can make sure to keep that time. So if something comes up where it's like, hey, this is a project or this sounds like a bigger challenge, give a little bit of direction and then schedule a follow-up with a clearer agenda on that. I think people are worried about doing one-on-ones because it takes so much time. So I don't have enough time. If you do one-on-ones consistently and you manage that to a,
that agenda, you will save time. People will move faster. They will be more in line. I can't remember the rest of question.
Scott (25:35)
I was going to say, you're like, what, shouldn't you do? So I agree with you on the 10, 10, 10. I feel like that's great. scheduling for additional time is cool. I would say that if an employee needs more time, cause they got a lot going on, especially if you have a relationship of trust and they're dumping their bucket, let it go. Like, you know, the, the additional 20 minutes that you might tack onto that conversation will pay itself off in
fades. That's my experience. like, wow, like, my, my boss really genuinely cares about me and is listening to me and wants to help. I think that's really great. But what are some things that like, don't do that.
Brian Walch (26:20)
Yeah, well, one, don't feel like you have to fill up the whole time. So if it ends at 20 minutes, don't think you had a talk for 10 minutes and waste their time and your time. Two is don't just talk about yourself and definitely don't talk about your problems, mean, like your complaints. That's...
Scott (26:27)
yeah.
Brian Walch (26:47)
So those are a couple of things. I I flip it around and be like, ask questions. So don't be just directive and talk to them. But take that opportunity to ask questions and learn. So there's a few of the don'ts.
Zeta (27:07)
Those are great. Those are great.
Scott (27:10)
One of the things that you talked about is this idea of management culture. Can you go into a little depth on that? What is management culture and then what can we do to cultivate really good management culture?
Brian Walch (27:25)
Yeah, culture, you know, like, I don't know how people would define it, you would all define it, but it's like, it's our, it's our actions. It's, you know, our values and how we live those out. And like I said earlier, I think so often organizations have like fractured culture because their managers are kind of all slightly different. so developing a management culture is about investing in that, in that management layer.
It's about investing in your managers. And I say, invest in your managers, empower your managers, promote your managers. And so, so often we're just, you like I said, we're just kind of sticking managers in these roles and kind of learning as we go. So investing, investing in them means giving them some coaching, giving them some time together so that they have time to share and have some peer learning and, and then provide some facilitation so that the
the values and the best practices are shared among the teams. And you'll start seeing culture emerge from that. I think if you say a top-down approach is like, hey, this is our culture, this is how you're gonna act, the managers are still in a position where they're like, I'll decide if that's the culture. They're gonna imprint it some other way often. If your managers are all kind of espousing that and talking about that and building a kind of a collaborative
layer, then that's going to be its kind of culture from the middle out. That's going to become the culture. So that's what I think of when I think of management culture. It's like we all have a certain set of shared values and behaviors that we manage our employees and manage our work by.
Daniel (29:12)
I like that.
Scott (29:15)
Cool, awesome. Well, this is some really great stuff. As we begin to think about sadly winding our time down a little bit, what are some key takeaways you'd like to leave with our audience? Maybe things you haven't talked about that you really want to talk about we didn't get to, or maybe there's some ways that we can tie all these things together in a nice little bow for those leaders out there that want to be better and want to change the world.
Brian Walch (29:45)
Yeah, boy, that's a difficult thing to summarize. Yeah, there's a lot to cover. I, you know, I think, like I said, think managers have this big impact on how people feel about work. And it's this great calling. And, A, I want managers to feel that. I want managers to feel like, hey, this work is very important. And it's not just a stepping stone to some bigger, higher career.
Daniel (29:49)
No pressure.
Scott (29:50)
No pro-
Brian Walch (30:13)
This is a valuable, much needed profession and you can be an awesome manager and have a great impact in the world and your organization. And I also want managers to feel like they can be fulfilled at work. Managers deal with 20 % of the problems or 80 % of the problems or 20 % of the people, whatever, I'm botching that.
But basically managers deal with all the negative stuff, right? And, and, they need to realize that it's okay to take time for themselves, to create a vision for themselves, to invest in their own professional development, to move forward. And I mean, that's what we start with. We, when I work with a manager, we start with, what do you want? What are you trying to achieve? And that is so important. And that would be what I would tell any manager listening is.
Own your own career development, decide what you want to do, and make the career and the work you're doing align to what you want to do. And if you have that kind of intrinsic motivation, you'll find much more reward in work. You'll be better manager naturally, and I believe you'll have more success in your career.
Yeah.
Scott (31:34)
Brian, thank you so much. Really great stuff. I love it. Hey, could you do us a favor? Could you let our audience know how they could connect with you and if you've got anything that you're working on that they need to be aware
Brian Walch (31:46)
Yeah, definitely. If anybody wants to have a free management strategy call on my website, there is a place to book a call with me. So I'd be happy to talk to anybody. If you want to learn, talk about your career or your management culture. I'm very active on LinkedIn. And then I've been doing trainings. I don't have one scheduled yet, but if you follow me on LinkedIn, you'll get notices to that. do a complimentary training usually on some of these topics that we just talked about.
is targeted toward managers.
Scott (32:18)
I know it's going to be in the show notes, but could you go ahead and repeat your website? That's okay. Okay, thank you.
Brian Walch (32:21)
Yeah, sorry, it's shiftfocus.com. So S-H-I-F-T-F-O-C-U-S, shiftfocus.com. On that website, you can register for a weekly newsletter and then book that call.
Scott (32:34)
Okay, fantastic. Great stuff, everybody. Go to shiftfocus.com, get your good management learning stuff, talk to Brian, and make the world a better place. I think that's awesome. Daniel-san, could you do me a solid, could you let our audience know how they could connect with us?
Brian Walch (32:49)
Yes.
Daniel (32:51)
Yes Scott.
Absolutely. Come on guys, you know the drill by now. Email us at nerds at the learning nerds.com. Email us any questions you might have. Join in on the conversation. I think for this week, what we would love to know is if you are a manager, do you feel prepared? Are you in a good spot? Do you feel like you're ready to like do the best that you can? And if you're not, is that part of your career path? We'd love to know.
If you're on Facebook, you can find us at Learning Nerds for all of our Instagram peeps, Fab Learning Nerds. And lastly, for more information about us, what we do and updates, www.thelearningnerds.com. Scott, back at you.
Scott (34:54)
of where they can get ahold of us folks. If you do me a favor, go ahead and hit that like button, hit that subscribe button, share this information out with your friends. And, and I do mean and please, please, please pretty please with cherries and apples on top this time, I really want you to leave us a review, go to iTunes, go to Stitcher wherever you can leave us review, that'd be great because it does do things. Hey, we want to get better. We know we can get better. So let us know how we can get better. Also,
It helps other people find this great stuff. Find Brian and all this good stuff. Leave us a review. We'd really appreciate that. With that, I'm Scott.
Daniel (35:30)
I'm Dan.
Zeta (35:32)
Zeta.
Brian Walch (35:33)
and I'm Brian.
Scott (35:34)
And we're your Fabulous Learning Nerds and we are out.