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In a world that feels increasingly chaotic, uncertain, and hard to make sense of, Realms of Curiosity with Sarah and Wendy offers a different kind of conversation.
Drawing from shamanic practice, psychology, and decades of firsthand experience with non-ordinary reality, Sarah and Wendy explore the deeper forces shaping our inner and outer worlds—from intuition and consciousness to deception, transformation, and the shifting nature of truth itself.
They don’t claim to have answers. Instead, they follow curiosity into the unknown—questioning, exploring, and inviting you to do the same.
Because in times like these, curiosity might be one of the most powerful tools we have.
Welcome to Realms of Curiosity. Listen in as two friends explore the mysteries of the universe through the lens of their otherworldly experiences.
Sarah:Hi, Wendy.
Wendy:Sarah, hi.
Sarah:How are you doing?
Wendy:I'm hanging in there. And yourself?
Sarah:Hanging too. Yeah. Usually hanging. But that might come. Yeah.
Wendy:I didn't notice any hanging looking at you.
Sarah:So what are we talking about today? Where do you wanna start?
Wendy:I was thinking that it could be interesting to talk about just the state of the world and-
Sarah:The entire world?
Wendy:Yeah.
Wendy:Well, just the shit that we're going through, like, what the fuck?
Sarah:It's I'm I'm joking. You know that?
Wendy:It's crazy. Oh, yeah. There's what what what stuff? What?
Wendy:Yeah. Exactly. What are you referring to...wendy?!
Sarah:It is so nuts. It is so nuts.
Wendy:It's surreal. Yeah.
Sarah:Yeah. One of my neighbors came home yesterday from a walk. I live in Hollywood, Beechwood Canyon. Came in and she said, I think I just saw Jeffrey Epstein. And I I said, what are you saying?
Sarah:She said, this guy walking down the street, he had this kind of weird smile on his face. She said, I'm sure it was him. She's a bit of a conspiracy theory person.
Wendy:No. Yeah. He's actually not dead, and he's out roaming the streets and in Hollywood, apparently.
Sarah:Well, if you're gonna go anywhere. Right?
Wendy:Might as well.
Sarah:Might as well come here.
Wendy:Might as well.
Sarah:Yep. The weather's nice. The people are eccentric. Mhmm. It's good.
Wendy:Yeah. No. I did my time. I lived in West Hollywood for That's right. Back after the riots and during the Northridge Earth earthquake time.
Sarah:Oh, you were here for the big earthquake?
Wendy:Oh, yeah. I invented curse words that morning.
Sarah:Wow.
Wendy:Yeah. That was intense. Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:Yeah. Yeah. And the whole OJ thing that was going on. I a lot of it was a very colorful period of time when I lived in LA.
Sarah:I mean It's always a colorful period of time in LA.
Wendy:Yeah. There's always something.
Sarah:Burning down, places flooding, people are rioting. It's very intense here.
Wendy:Mhmm.
Sarah:Yeah. So, yeah, let's talk about the world.
Wendy:Let's talk about the world. Yeah. So, like, trying to make sense of all of this stuff. And, I mean, I have logged some hours just trying to understand what's happening because I I think it's fair to say I started kind of noticing some things a long time ago. I'm trying to think when did I really start noticing that things were shifting.
Wendy:It started with time. My experience of time started to to... my perception of time was shifting, and that was probably in the early two thousands. And I started noticing that it was accelerating.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:And and most people say, well, that's because you're getting older. I'm like, no. Because even
Sarah:No. No.
Wendy:Even kids were noticing it, and that was pre For sure. Cell phones, everybody having a cell phone.
Sarah:I thought what a marker point was after 09:11. Yeah. I feel that everything has been, like, in this big slide of shift since 09:11. Now is it am I paying more attention than I did before? Maybe.
Sarah:I don't know.
Wendy:No. But there's there's a there's a degree of unraveling I would describe that that that started. But I think this unraveling process has been happening for a long time, in my opinion. It was in 2008. I went on a journey, a shamanic journey.
Wendy:I had read an article about some kind of anomalous cosmic event that was gonna be happening. I think they described it as plasma that was gonna be entering our region of the solar system. I was just curious about it. And I I went into the dream time with the intention of trying to understand this better. And instead of going there, I ended up at the center of the Milky Way.
Wendy:I ended up entering into the black hole
Sarah:Woah.
Wendy:Which I don't recommend. The experience of it, even even my consciousness felt like it was compressed, like I was being squeezed through a tube of toothpaste. And then when I got in into the interior of this space, it felt like a place of both creation and destruction, and it was kind of roiling, and there was this there's a sound in it. And once I focused, there were all of these sort of there were these dots of lights, different colored lights in the interior, and they reminded me of aboriginal art, you know, because they had sort of like Australian Yeah. Original dots.
Wendy:Of dots, colorful dots. Right? But these were lights, colorful lights. And I perceived them as intelligent and that they had information. And I wasn't really gleaning anything at that moment other than that they were pregnant with all of this information.
Wendy:And once I exited that space and went back into my life, the next couple of days, I started having all of this understanding about stuff.
Sarah:Nice. Nice.
Wendy:And I understood that we were entering a period of what I end up calling the chaos, where all the systems on the planet would be breaking down. The global systems like the environmental systems, the political systems, the economic systems, and then on down to the kind of national systems, the regional systems, community systems, down to the family systems, the and then the individual. And that there was sort of this reason that all of these things were gonna be happening, And I didn't quite understand what the reason was other than the message of all the things that were hidden were gonna be revealed.
Sarah:Now, though, was there any sense of that?
Wendy:Well, that came after. Oh. So we were gonna be basically facing all of these these things that had been hidden. We were gonna have to come to terms with these things. Like, you can run, but you can't hide.
Wendy:So for each one of us, we were gonna be dealing with our own stuff that we hadn't dealt with.
Sarah:And you said this was 2008.
Wendy:Yeah.
Sarah:Mhmm. Uh-huh.
Wendy:And then not long after that, I like, I started putting pieces together. And do you remember the the whole Mayan calendar?
Sarah:Oh, yeah. I'm sure.
Wendy:Like, the end of the world is coming, and they were talking about 12/21/2012 as being the end date of the long count calendar in the in the Mayan calendar system.
Sarah:Mhmm.
Wendy:And I guess that date is questionable. I'm not a Mayan scholar, but that date is questionable. And I think a lot of people had this idea that they would wake up on the December 22 of that year and everything would be better. And I'm like, no. I don't think it works that way.
Wendy:Think No.
Sarah:Not quite.
Wendy:We we kinda have to do we have to put our our work in. So that that kind of prophecy was in the zeitgeist at the time. So this idea of world ages and then this concept of of, like, something about the precession of the equinoxes where our solar system was going to be finishing a huge cycle. Obviously, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about with this stuff, but I just remember reading about it. And that so that was another little piece.
Wendy:Again, all these little things were kind of pointing at. Things were changing, and then other indigenous prophecies were starting to be revealed at that time too
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:About, again, world ages. A world age was ending, and a new one was beginning. So it wasn't the end of the world. It was the end of a world age and the beginning of a new one. Mhmm.
Wendy:And then my understanding is that the world age that is ending is dominated by the masculine, and the one that's beginning is supposed to be a balance between the masculine and the feminine.
Sarah:Right. Right.
Wendy:If that's accurate, then that's what we're in the midst of right now is all of these these systems breaking down because they have to in order to prepare for this new way of existing in the world.
Sarah:It would strike me that the masculine is not going down without a struggle.
Wendy:I call it the death rattle.
Sarah:It's the death rattle.
Wendy:Yeah. There's this illusion, this grasp with white knuckles. Let's hold on.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:We got this.
Sarah:We got this. And and not they don't even realize that they they they're not even making any sense anymore in their death rattle. Yeah. Anyway, didn't mean to interrupt.
Wendy:No. No. No. That no. That's this is this is a conversation.
Wendy:I don't mean to sit here and lecture, but these are the Well, no.
Sarah:But it's interesting to, you know, hear the your perspective. I mean
Wendy:Yeah. We
Sarah:all have our own perspective.
Wendy:Yeah. Exactly. So this this is how I've been making sense of all of this stuff. All of this is it sounds like we're right on schedule if Yeah. If that's true, whatever it is that's going on.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:And there's certainly a lot of noise now in the bigger world, especially the Internet world. Lots of different ways of trying to make sense of what's going on right now. Different channelers, different systems looking at this, trying to just make sense of what's happening.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's so many theories and feelings and and all of it. I I find it interesting.
Sarah:And, of course, I've chosen to follow certain threads to some kind of a logical conclusion or not logical. I don't know. Some kind of a conclusion. But in this week, I sort of came to the place where I realized that I no longer have the capacity to understand what is the truth. You know?
Sarah:It feels incredibly overwhelming for me trying to you know, like the Jeffrey Epstein situation or the Donald Trump reality. It like, it doesn't make any sense. I keep trying to find what the truth is of Donald Trump. He makes no sense. Like, zero sense.
Sarah:He's so ridiculously foolish. Therefore, like, logic seems to be a way for us to process what's going on in the world. And now it feels as though there's no truth. I mean, the lying that is just the daily like, you didn't see this person get shot by ICE. You know?
Sarah:That's not what happened. He was brandishing a gun. No. He wasn't. There's not even a semblance of trying to present a good lie.
Sarah:It's just, like, deny, manipulate. You know? And I feel like I've said it before, but it's like 1984 on steroids. You know? It's it's it's just unbelievable.
Wendy:Surreal. Right? It's surreal. Getting back to the word I used a little while ago, it's surreal. It really is.
Sarah:It is surreal. And how and when you're living in a surreal unfolding, like, what are you supposed to do with that? It's not like my logical brain can say, oh, yeah. I get it. I get what happened here.
Sarah:I mean, the the magnitude of the corruption and the lies and the sexual deviancy, and it's just like, holy mackerel. You know? Like, what what is this?
Wendy:Well, yeah. I mean, it is it all of that hidden stuff that is coming to the surface? And then Yeah. And then now that it's on the surface, it we there's a lot of, oh, nothing to see here.
Sarah:Yeah. Nothing to see here.
Wendy:Oh, yeah. This reminds me of another shamanic experience I had back in, like, '20. I wanted to discover if there was such thing as a mental realm. Is there a place where our thoughts live? And it was really hard to find.
Wendy:Mhmm. It was more two dimensional, so I had to see it from a certain angle. And once I caught it, then it expanded and I could see it from a distance. But it was corrupted. And I asked, what am I Why?
Sarah:What
Wendy:happened? What's happening here? And the word that came into my head was deception.
Sarah:Yeah. Satan. Deception. Right?
Wendy:Then the concept of a mind virus
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Came into Yeah. My head. And that's what led me to write the book that I released last year in 2025. Yeah. Ravenstarter, which is about a mind virus of deception.
Wendy:Yeah. Based on those shamanic experiences, just the fact that you don't know what's true. And in in my book, I it's infiltrated AI because humans program AI. And so it's anyway, it's a problem is my point.
Sarah:It's a problem.
Wendy:Yeah. So, again, it's like, how did we get there? Why did deception become such a prominent thing in our lives? Yeah. I don't know how to answer that, but I have an answer that's in my book.
Wendy:But but
Sarah:Yeah. I I've for many years, I've said that people when people ask the question, if you had, like, superpowers, what what would you do, and what would what effect would you have on things? And I've always said I would make it so that human beings couldn't lie. Ah. Everything would change.
Sarah:You know? I mean, like, the advertising world, the pharmaceutical world, the politics. Like, imagine if people couldn't lie what what that would be. You know?
Wendy:Right. We would all need, lobotomies to be able to do that, to damage the frontal lobe so we don't have abstract thought. Yeah. But more seriously, it seems like telepathy, you can't lie when you're telepathic, nonverbal autistic kids and the telepathy tapes Yeah. They
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Are showing or demonstrating.
Sarah:Yeah. But we all have telepathic capabilities. We we all do. And either that door has been shut tight and locked in your consciousness, or you've released it. You know?
Sarah:And part of what I think is is a good result of working with in the shamanic ways is that you you open those doors, and you really do start to be sensitive in ways that allow you to feel information, feel histories, feel all kinds of stuff. You know? And and it's but it's it's more real. It's it's free of lies. You're right.
Sarah:When you're telepathic, you can't lie. You know? And I just think that would be a wonderful state, and we're so far away from it now. And Do
Wendy:you have any theories as to why we're we're so far away from being able to do that? Like, what is it about the way we are currently that keeps us from having easy telepathic abilities?
Sarah:Wow. Damn defino. You know, when you look at the history of Western civil civilization and evolution, I have so many thoughts that deal with things that are conspiracy theories. I don't shut those out, and I always explore. Like, that's an interesting you know, the fact that the economy is based on what certain families did to create this this world of the economy that we live in and how devious that has been and, you know, how devious is the creation of America.
Sarah:It was founded on genocide of the Native American people, slavery.
Wendy:Oh, colonialism. Yeah. Colonialism.
Sarah:Yeah. Exactly. Like and we think, oh, yay, America. You know? Well, I don't know.
Sarah:It's it's got some pretty shitty stuff that that was built into the fiber of this place. You know, the way women were treated, the way I don't know. And I guess when I when I look at the history, when I look at some of these things that are written about how we ended up here, I I think it's so much bigger than my little human brain can can really understand. I think it's just vast, and it's not this thing or that thing. But but, wow, how do we get out of this?
Sarah:I don't Yeah.
Wendy:Yeah. No. I agree. I think what's I wanna go back to the conspiracy theory thing that you're just talking about. To me, that's a sign of how lost we are and the level of deception.
Wendy:I think conspiracy theories, my thought anyway, is that they are born out of a lack of trust in these bigger systems like the government. So there can be, like, a kernel of truth in a conspiracy theory, but then it can go off the rails.
Sarah:Yeah. But how do you know what's the truth even in the conspiracy theory? And what's the
Wendy:Well, I mean, some of them are really
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
Wendy:Yeah. I mean, I've heard some Yeah. Yeah. From family members even. Yeah.
Sarah:For sure.
Wendy:No. I'm not familiar with that one. But okay. Yeah. I guess the point is is that because we don't trust, it creates this this seed of doubt in
Sarah:in Everything.
Wendy:In everything. And so our desire to wanna understand and to know what's really happening, I think, gives birth to these.
Sarah:That's it. That's it. Like, how do you you know?
Wendy:How do you know what's true?
Sarah:Victor Frankl's book, Man's Search for Meaning. You know?
Wendy:We're always looking for meaning. And But that's a different kind of meaning that think he was talking about.
Sarah:Yes. But but you can put yes. Of course, it he was talking about within the confines of concentration camp.
Wendy:Like a personal meaning in your life, what gives you the reason to live? Yes. But But then meaning making of your life. Right? Yeah.
Sarah:Yeah. We give the narrative of what my life means and what this society means, and I'm finding that a really tricky area these days.
Wendy:Hell, yeah. It's tricky for all of us. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, we Westerners, we just wanna understand.
Wendy:Yeah. We wanna ask the question why and then ask it again and then ask it again.
Sarah:Yeah. And that's what I find happening. It's just, like, daily, I'm puzzled. You know? And Yeah.
Sarah:I think I understand something, and then and then something else happens. And so, you know, when we when we talked about, like, when we decided to talk about this, I had a feeling of dis ease in myself because I wish I had more solid ground to say, Well, I think this is going on, or That's going on. And is there a mind disease? I mean, then the Native Americans have talked about that for a long time. Woteco?
Sarah:Yeah. Woteco. Exactly.
Wendy:I think yeah. It's a version of deception, but that's more of an external source is my understanding that is invading. To me, I I think that the deception that I perceived was generated by humans because of our cultural worldview in the West.
Sarah:Yeah. I was just listening to a podcast recently about again, I don't know if I'm if I talked about this before or not, but he's he's a minister with with one of the big churches in Pasadena here in California. And his he wrote a book, which I have not read, but his feeling is that Satan is an internal thing, not an external thing. He said that the root word of Satan is connected to deception.
Wendy:Yeah. It's the he's the deceiver, Satan.
Sarah:The deceiver.
Wendy:Yeah. The archetype of deception.
Sarah:Exactly. And when he said that, I was very attracted to that thought. You know? I thought, oh, that's really interesting. And so deception.
Sarah:You know? So as we're unfolding in this discussion, maybe that is part of the answer, that we are living in this time of deception as it as it bubbles away. You know? And
Wendy:Yeah. And and is deception a symptom of a failure on our part or something we're missing or a disconnection or a disharmony that we have that we have so lost touch with what is real.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. What is real?
Wendy:A great fucking question.
Sarah:Nature is real. That's that to me, that's the only thing that's real is is the natural world.
Wendy:Yeah. And that might be the big clue about deception. And well, I mean, my thought or at least what I was shown, what was described to me is that there was a time in our history where we decided humans decided we were separate from nature.
Sarah:Yeah. Well, isn't that what the bible said?
Wendy:That's like yeah. That well
Sarah:Story one
Wendy:And then that creates this divide that if we're somehow different, we're separate from nature, that we're maybe even better or more advanced than everything else in the natural world, and we can dominate the natural world and that whole colonial mind concept. Yeah. That we have forgotten that our essence is that we are nature. We are part of the fabric of the natural world. We are, but we're not seeing ourselves as that.
Sarah:Right.
Wendy:And so to me, that's the original lie that started the virus of deception
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. I agree.
Wendy:That I wrote about in my book.
Sarah:I a 100% agree. Yeah. No. It's true. I mean, it well, it appears to be true.
Wendy:Each one of us has to come to our own conclusions about these things. But getting back to what you were saying before, when we open these shamanic doors or how whatever our internal practice is to perceive in nonphysical reality, can deception interfere with that? I think deception can interfere with that if your belief systems are interfering with what you're perceiving. You're misinterpreting what you're perceiving. Right.
Wendy:But then again, that's that's an internal process. So what you perceive is what you perceive. And then when we latch on and try to create meaning or understanding of it, that's when it gets a little tricky, and we can be completely full of shit about how and or, like, you're making something up. Like, you're generating something because you want it to be a certain way that you're perceiving something because you have a a desire for a certain outcome. So that's another way we just see.
Wendy:But if you are seated in the right place in your psyche, that neutral place, and you're perceiving that and then you're able to discern that knowing. Like, that knowing is just like, you're so clear. All that mental and emotional noise is to the side, and you're just perceiving. You know what I'm talking about. Right?
Sarah:Yeah. Of course. Yeah.
Wendy:Then with that can come the knowing, and that's to me, like, there's a purity to it. Yeah. And we were talking about this, was it last time or two times ago about intuition?
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Your brain will wanna latch on right after that and start interpreting and that kind thing. But the truth, there I guess my point is that you can access a truth of sorts if you can clear your internal noise, get that out of the way. And then if you can, I guess, maintain that pristine nature of it without your brain kicking in and needing to fuck with it? Yeah.
Sarah:I I agree completely. And I think that's why I said at the very beginning here that I have concluded that I have no capacity to recognize what is the truth and what is the deception. Like, I can't anymore. I can't find it. I can find it in myself, and I can find it in nature, but I can't find it in the constructs that are that are presented daily to to us.
Wendy:Well, is that perfect, though?
Sarah:Well, it is kinda perfect. And part of my question at this time is, do I want to just go completely back to nature and and be with nature and maybe write and paint again and and just, you know, have a dog sanctuary and and just get really fundamentally pure in in where I am because, like, I just don't have the capacity to to figure it out. It's so fucking noisy. It's just, like, constantly
Wendy:being cars honking in the background. Yeah.
Sarah:Constantly honking in the background.
Wendy:Yeah. No. I remember that. I mean, you live in a city. So yeah.
Wendy:Absolutely.
Sarah:Yeah. But but cars honking in the symbolic background.
Wendy:Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Sarah:Like nonstop. You
Wendy:know? But maybe what you're talking about is the medicine for all of us is that
Sarah:But how do we do that? We
Wendy:Well, what's important maybe? You decide what's important to you Yeah. And what's real to you. I mean, I think that's such an intimate question that each one of us has to figure out for ourselves if if we even are inclined to do that. But this idea of wanting to reconnect with the natural world because there's a comfort and hopefully a familiarity there too and a a sense of peace and vibrance.
Wendy:And the world is really fucking noisy right now in general. Just all of the thoughts and the emotions that people are experiencing right now is having it's it's not just contained in each person's body. It's, like, floating out there in the ethers. And if you're a sensitive person, how could you not be kinda be impacted by all of that?
Sarah:Totally. Totally. We we are. And there's this very strong discomfort that people you know, so many people taking antidepressants, antianxiety medications, and
Wendy:you know, trying to find lost.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. Trying to find a way to be comfortable in an increasingly uncomfortable reality
Wendy:that And it's gonna get more uncomfortable. That's the thing. And then what does each person have to do to to stay as grounded as humanly possible as we're navigating through this chaos?
Sarah:Yeah. Exactly.
Wendy:Because it's I mean, it's not gonna just, like, on a dime.
Sarah:This morning, there was something in the news about the agreements on nuclear arms coming to an end so that there's gonna be more nuclear arms created by everybody.
Wendy:Hooray.
Sarah:And I thought, oh, fuck it. Who cares? You know? Like Yeah.
Wendy:This when we need the aliens to intervene.
Sarah:I wish somebody would intervene. I mean, yeah. Like, come on, dudes. Like, let's let's go.
Wendy:Things are
Sarah:fire here. We are not good.
Wendy:Yeah. All of this shit is bubbling up right now. All of it. And it's it's it really is incredibly surreal.
Sarah:The Epstein thing, it's nonstop. You know?
Wendy:Yeah. It's ugly.
Sarah:One and that one and this guy and that guy. Yeah. Deepak Chopra. Oh, bad bad bad.
Wendy:I know. He endorsed my kids book, and I'm like, oh, fuck. Should I take that? And that was from 2003.
Sarah:You just got you just got
Wendy:Oh, yeah. I know, man. Hello? But yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:I it's it's it's insanity. It's insanity, and I I obviously, I don't know. I'm at a loss. But we're where we're supposed to be. I guess what I was gonna say is that our species, Sarah, in my opinion, is not very evolved.
Wendy:I think we are emotionally and spiritually very young as a speed because our species hasn't been around that long.
Sarah:And I don't think it's gonna be around much longer.
Wendy:Well, it yeah. We we that that is a possibility, isn't it? That is definitely a possibility.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:Yeah. Well, I mean, holy shit. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Wendy:Fasten your seat belts.
Sarah:Fasten your seat belts. Yeah. I just wanna live on a lake with with vegetables and and bunch of dogs. And That sounds dreamy. It does.
Sarah:I don't know how I make that happen. But
Wendy:Well, you're a good manifester.
Sarah:So I am a
Wendy:good no doubt you will you will create that. And then if you could throw me in there in the mix too, I I'll, I'll I'll be your neighbor.
Sarah:Yeah. Well, that's what I'm thinking. I'm I am thinking. I don't wanna be, like, living in the forest by myself exactly. Yeah.
Sarah:I want a community of like minded people that are in the vicinity, you know, where we could have meals together and, you know, like, all the stuff. Mhmm. The old fashioned
Wendy:Yeah. I'm a little hesitant about community living only because groups of people don't always do well together. But
Sarah:They do terribly together.
Wendy:And then there's a lot of fucking work to kinda work through all the things.
Sarah:Like Yeah. But I don't know. That's that's my thing.
Wendy:But, no, I did dream of that. It sounds incredible.
Sarah:Whether whether it happens or not remains sustained. But yeah. I mean, I don't wanna be, you know, an elder living by myself in the forest. That doesn't appeal to me either. But Yeah.
Wendy:And then people will write scary stories about you.
Sarah:Yeah. Exactly.
Wendy:The witch out in the Exactly.
Sarah:The throne. Yeah. Maybe that's what's happening. But the other thing I think about when I think of returning to the land or or moving to this place or that place. I there's something about returning to a more innocent time.
Sarah:And I think, am I fooling myself into thinking that this will be a solution, you know, that I'll find a peaceful and I I don't know.
Wendy:Yeah. I don't know either. I don't think we can go backwards.
Sarah:Think I don't think we can either.
Wendy:Like like like romanticizing how native Americans lived
Sarah:Right.
Wendy:Or or any indigenous people pre colonialism. Right. No. I I think it's like finding new ways. And I and and I think that will emerge once the dust starts settling.
Wendy:I think there are, like, little signs we'll see here and there of of
Sarah:Let's hope.
Wendy:Of possibility.
Sarah:Yeah. Let's hope.
Wendy:Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a good thing to hope hope for. I'd rather focus on that than focus on all the bullshit because the bullshit just I mean, it's just anxiety provoking, and and that's one thing we have agency over is where we point our focus. So do you wanna drop your anchor in the negative polarity, or do you wanna pull it up and put it in the positive polarity?
Sarah:Yeah. And, you know, your focus and your daily intentions of what what am I gonna be doing today? Like, it's it's a small, you know, number of hours, and how am I gonna be feeling okay and making a positive in in this in this
Wendy:I love that. Yeah. Like, shrinking it down to just, like Yeah. The moment or the day because we do have a tendency to to kinda project into the future a little too much. And it's we're always in gray zone, but it's, like, super obvious that we're in gray right now.
Wendy:We don't know what's gonna happen.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:It's all up in the air. Yeah. And that's unsettling. I'm in agreement, I think, keeping my focus on what's right in front of me.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:You are.
Sarah:Exactly. Aren't we lucky?
Wendy:Yeah. Well, that's a great conclusion to come to, in our conversation.
Sarah:Yeah. Like, again, when you you suggested that we talk about the
Wendy:kind of the world.
Sarah:State of the world, I really did feel a sense of dread in me because I have so few answers. You know? And I feel like the people who have voice are people who are putting it out that they have answers to all of this.
Wendy:Right. Yeah. I don't yeah. I I don't I I hope I didn't come across like I had answers. It was just maybe ideas that a world age is ending and another one is starting and that it's messy.
Wendy:And and I don't know what it's gonna look like and how bad it has to get in order to completely collapse the old. When do you think
Sarah:the world age was was positive? Like, in your mind, do you have a thought of where
Wendy:I have no idea. I mean, I yeah. I don't know. I don't I have no idea. I think that this planet has probably been notoriously challenging to incarnate on.
Sarah:I think so.
Wendy:But but there probably were time time frames where it was easier Yeah. Than than this one. This one is a darker feeling one. I mean, just look at our our history in the last couple of thousand years.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Not so great.
Sarah:Not so great. And, I mean, sometimes things were great for this group of people because they were screwing up that group of people, and it was making their life great, but the the other people's lives were not great. And there's a lot of that that you when you look at history.
Wendy:Yeah. I know. Well, it and yeah. Prehistory, I I I have no idea. I haven't really investigated a lot of that.
Wendy:I think people like Graham Hancock are trying to look into ancient civilizations that seem to be advanced and looking at potential evidence that they existed and maybe knew some shit that we don't currently know now.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:It's fascinating. But other than that, we got what we got. So if this is a dream, which I do believe this physical reality is the dream, we're collectively dreaming this together, then we have an opportunity to create a new dream in this experience. And I'd like to contribute what I can to creating a a really pleasant dream,
Sarah:a sweet dream. A sweet dream. Sweet dreams. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah:I I mean, I feel fairly good about what I contribute to the dream. You know? I think I I do my best to
Wendy:be all you can do. Right? That's all do. With my little pea brain, I'm doing the best I can.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not leaving not leaving a lot of lies and deception in my wake. I'm trying.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Yep. We're all full of shit, really. Some of us are yourself. But I think we're some some of us are trying to be less full of shit. Yeah.
Wendy:That was my conclusion after that mental realm excess oh, I said, so we're all full of shit. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We all are.
Wendy:We are. We could I mean, self deception, so big. And then how we deceive each other, huge.
Sarah:Do you lie?
Wendy:I try not to. Yeah. I mean, I think kind of my wiring makes it hard. I think the only times I probably have is to try to prevent someone from feeling bad.
Sarah:Yeah. That's always the that's always the point for a lot of people.
Wendy:But is that even fair? I don't know.
Sarah:Yeah. Is that helpful even?
Wendy:That's a whole ethical thing.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. That would be a whole
Wendy:That we don't have time to talk about.
Sarah:Yeah. I make a point of not lying, but that means sometimes I have to, like, really search for what it is I'm gonna say so as not to hurt the other person.
Wendy:Absolutely. It's an art form.
Sarah:Hurting, I find the truth that is not hurtful. You know? That's good. So that
Wendy:That that that sounds like a a great contribution right there. Yeah. Because people will feel that. They'll know it. Because you you can feel
Sarah:Truth. Yeah.
Wendy:Yeah. When you experience it, yeah, you can feel it.
Sarah:You can feel lies. Like, ugh, lies are like a
Wendy:Unless unless you wanna hear it or you're looking for confirmation bias, then you'll hook, line, and sinker. Yeah. I buy it. Yeah.
Sarah:Dogs are truthful.
Wendy:Yeah. I think all of the rest of the animal kingdom is truthful. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah:Ah, time. That went Yeah.
Wendy:It did. This was fun and
Sarah:disturbing. Feels fun and disturbing. That's life. Right?
Wendy:Well, I think it's good to talk about the hard stuff even if we don't have answers.
Sarah:Yeah.
Wendy:Maybe other people will feel less alone.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. They'll be like, look at these two. They don't know anything. I guess it's okay.
Wendy:It's true. Maybe we should change the name of the podcast to we know nothing.
Sarah:Well, we just said we were curious. We didn't say we knew anything.
Wendy:Yeah.
Sarah:Yeah. Yeah. Thank god we didn't say we knew anything.
Wendy:We do live in the age of the expert.
Sarah:Yeah. We do.
Wendy:Yeah. And this is the anti expert podcast.
Sarah:That's what we should have called it.
Wendy:Yeah. Really. Maybe that's our tagline. Alright. Alright.
Wendy:Goodbye. Right back at you. I will see you next time.