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Join host Adam Larson on this insightful episode of Count Me In Podcast as he sits down with Corey Noyek, Vice President of Finance & Operations at Cardata. Corey shares his passion for breaking down silos and fostering an environment where diverse perspectives thrive. Tune in to hear practical strategies for improving communication between departments, navigating the challenges presented by virtual work, and leveraging technology responsibly. Corey also offers valuable tips on maintaining a curiosity mindset, asking the right questions, and ensuring every team member feels heard. Whether you're a manager looking to boost your team's cohesion or just curious about improving workplace dynamics, this episode is packed with actionable advice and engaging conversation. Don't miss it!
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Welcome to another episode of Count Me In. I'm your host, Adam Larson. And today, we have a special guest, Corey Nowak, vice president of finance and operations at Car Data. In this episode, Corey and I will explore the challenges and strategies for effective collaboration, especially when dealing with siloed environments. We'll talk about how to break down silos, foster open communication, and the role of leadership in creating a collaborative culture.
Adam Larson:We'll also touch on the impact of technology and AI on teamwork and how to maintain genuine human interactions in the virtual world. Whether you're working in person or remotely, you'll gain valuable insights on enhancing your approach to teamwork and organizational cohesion. Stay tuned for an enlightening conversation. Now let's get started. Well, Corey, I'm really excited to have you on the podcast today as we're gonna be talking about collaboration and teams.
Adam Larson:And this is something that has is anybody who's worked in any corporate environment, any team environment at let alone whether it's a sports team or you're volunteering somewhere, collaboration is a difficult thing. It's not an easy thing. And one of the biggest things that you deal with when you're collaborating with other teams is silos. There's silos. Everybody has their is stuck in their silo.
Adam Larson:They don't wanna talk to that person. They don't wanna talk to that team. And, you know, maybe we can start by talking about silos and the problem they bring and maybe some some strategies to help start breaking down those as we get into this conversation about collaboration.
Corey Noyek:Love it. Happy to be here. And, yes, it's a, it's a good topic. And, it's I feel like it it happens in every organization, especially, and you sometimes forget about the necessity of collaboration. Mhmm.
Corey Noyek:And silos is a hot topic for me. So I work in what they call a silo of back office in its of itself. And within back office, they do like to silo it off over there in the back. Don't mind. Mhmm.
Corey Noyek:But really, even within that, there is further breakdown of the department. And so what happens is you kind of forget about that within that that silo, you have HR, finance, accounting, FP and a, business analytics, IT. And so these are some of the things that, you know, get bundled all together and kind of lumped into in this habit of silos. And the same thing happens across the full organization that you really start seeing, you know, sales is in charge of this. Marketing does this.
Corey Noyek:They don't do this. That's sales. This is marketing. And all these different things that come up of of trying to put them into places. For me, I really want to break down silos as much as possible.
Corey Noyek:Any opportunity I have, I really just want to do that is create an environment where we can all bring different perspectives.
Adam Larson:Yeah.
Corey Noyek:And have a collective group conversation, dialogue, and process that will get us the best business outcome. And that's where those silos really happen is that if you're out on your own, you you may just have a perspective from that one area, and you're missing all of that great opportunity and ideas and thoughts that come from all the other experiences and known skills from those other departments and silos. One thing that I will asterisk as well, unfortunately, the world we live in now, COVID and working from home and the work experience now has completely destroyed that. Mhmm. It is way easier to not have silos when you're in person.
Announcer:Versus now that we're a lot more virtual, it is
Corey Noyek:so easy to have Versus now that we're a lot more virtual, it is so easy to have 1 on 1 conversations and really have that individualized group think leaving out some of the additional stakeholders you need. So before we jump into everything, I really want to, preface that one of the biggest things that we really need to do is try and bring people in rather than excluding and trying to have smaller conversations. Mhmm.
Adam Larson:Now one of the biggest things I heard, you know, is is it's great to have that, you know, break down the silos and bring in that diversity of thought. You know, the whole whole biggest push for diversity is not only including people who haven't been included in the conversations before, but if you don't include those people, if you don't include different people who haven't been in the conversation, you won't get that different perspective because everybody's come from different places. They have different experiences, so you can't get them in there. So how do we start breaking those down? Because, you know, even when I was full time in an office, there are still silos because that person may be on the other side of the office building, and I have to walk all the way over there and talk to them and build that conversation.
Adam Larson:How do you break down those things? How do you build those relationships to invite them into air?
Corey Noyek:Yeah. I would say one of the ways to best address that is really from the top. So having clear business objectives. Yeah. At the end of day, that's what we're all here for, understanding what the business purpose is and having that shared experience and shared knowledge to understand what we're trying to accomplish will break down.
Corey Noyek:So by enabling the full company to have that same narrative, same picture, it goes to when you do interact with that individual across the the office, you both have the same objective and purpose in mind. So it's easier to collaborate. What is key, and as you touched on, is those different perspectives. Yeah. But as long as it's a shared goal, you're hopefully going to get to the same outcome, but maybe think of ideas that you may not have thought of.
Adam Larson:Yeah. So how do we, communication is the is the key element that we have to to break down these silos, obviously. How do we bridge the communication gaps, especially to make sure every everybody's on the same page, but also foster the different perspectives? Because you don't want everybody to be yes men in that conversation. You want the divert you want somebody say, Hey, well, what about this?
Adam Larson:Do you want the dissenting thoughts? Because it creates a, it creates better outcomes.
Corey Noyek:Yeah. So that one, again, it starts with the leaders of each department and really creating that environment that you do have smooth and consistent flow of information and decision making process, allowing that first team to be able to really zone in and be able to have that thought and give opinions and everything like that is critical in order to everything else then trickle down. So if we do have that at the first level, and as we're building out the business objectives or building out our goals for the next let's call it even a quarter or or first half of the year, those will then trickle down and create that environment that will allow for everyone to start actually having those communication and psychological safety even to talk amongst each other
Adam Larson:Mhmm.
Corey Noyek:And raise opinions.
Adam Larson:So you keep mentioning, you know, it starts at the top, it starts at the top, it starts at the top. What are, you know, are there some strategies that you've been able to experience and and been able to use to help that trickle down effect? Because, obviously, if you're starting the top and you're saying that, but then it also the managers have to have that buy in, and then they have to help incorporate that in their teams. And that's not always a, hey. Let's just do this tomorrow.
Adam Larson:Like, it's not a it's not a just start tomorrow kind of thing.
Corey Noyek:So I would say it doesn't have to start at the top.
Adam Larson:Okay.
Corey Noyek:But it has to be present at the top. And so that's
Corey Noyek:where a
Corey Noyek:lot of times we fall into traps is we try to do it at the at the department level and within those silos. So marketing may have a strategy.
Adam Larson:Mhmm.
Corey Noyek:Finance has a strategy. If they don't all align and are consistent, that's where you run into challenges. And so again, it doesn't have to start at the top, but it has to be consistent at the top. And so if we have a full business objective, we can then trickle down and work with them. The most important, I would say, is at the individual level.
Corey Noyek:And as you touched on that with the managers, making sure that it's consistent and known by all individuals and all employees of what are we actually striving for and how does it all build together? So a perfect example is me and my team in accounting. They may not feel that if our overall goal is to grow sales and and have tremendous growth in the year, they may say, oh, well, I don't have much impact on that. It's how do you get them to understand what the impacts and what the cross collaboration can exist from our team to their team to foster and help enable that growth. So an example of that is as simple as invoicing.
Corey Noyek:Our team does all of the invoicing. Well, you can get revenues without invoicing Mhmm.
Corey Noyek:But
Corey Noyek:you can't get paid for it, which means truly, if you don't get paid for it, it's not really revenue. So as simple as that, that the company objective is, yes, to grow and scale. But even at the individual department in that silo, you can bring them in by, again, fostering that collaboration of a full understanding of how do they help in achieving those goals.
Adam Larson:I like that. I like even breaking down something as simple as, hey, if you don't send this invoice on time, we don't get paid, which infects affects the whole company. And when you put it from that perspective because a lot of times, you know, especially people who may not be higher up in management, it's hard for them to buy into a company strategy, because they're like, what impact did that does that have on me? So breaking it down to that level really really helps create that buy in. Now many times, you know, people have been burned.
Adam Larson:They've had they've said, hey, come in, collaborate with me, and then that person takes the idea, runs with it, and there there's no credit given and stuff like that. How do you overcome those kind of obstacles because, you know, everybody has their different experiences.
Corey Noyek:Yeah. So I think anytime that you're inviting anyone in and anytime that you're taking on a new initiative, you really have to think through all of the stakeholders.
Adam Larson:Yeah.
Corey Noyek:And that's where it goes to have whether they're big stakeholders, small stakeholders, there is a process for it. You shouldn't just invite everyone into the room and have a giant conversation anywhere. However, there is an appropriate point in time and there is a time that should exist that you bring all those stakeholders in, at least for some commentary. And so if you do get the feedback from those individuals and allow them to give in some input, you'll also have a much more successful rollout. So going back to even the revenue and and and, from an accounting perspective, let's say there's a new SKU that you wanna roll out, a new a new item that you're gonna start selling.
Corey Noyek:The sales team will probably take the most initiative. The marketing team will work with the customers and try to see what they want and how to bundle it. Then they'll work with the engineering team and try to design the product and everything like that. But again, at a later stage, even with the accounting, they eventually have to bill for it. So at some point in that process, you need to make sure that there is the steps that say, okay, who will have who are all of our stakeholders and have we communicated with them to make sure that we're really set up for success?
Corey Noyek:Mhmm. And even if there's some players that are bigger than others, obviously, product will take longer because we actually have to design, understand how it'll work, do some back and forth. But even so, it's just as critical. And again, for that collaboration to properly come out and then have a great customer experience, you can't forget about the accounting department because at the end of the day, if they don't know how to bill it, then again, that's not gonna be the most smooth, efficient process for your customer. And again, it can be a great product, but then if you have a poor experience, even a small part in the cloud, that does impact it.
Adam Larson:Mhmm. So how
Adam Larson:do you measure success? Obviously, every project is different. Everything is different. If you're bringing a collaboration, you're everybody's collaborating, how do you measure that? Because it's not always it's not always as simple as, hey.
Adam Larson:Success equals this amount of dollars. That it's not always that simple.
Corey Noyek:Yeah. So I I definitely would say it depends on the initiative. Mhmm. Some of the key ones that that are easy to it. It's really around whether it's customer sentiment, employee sentiment, revenues.
Corey Noyek:So if you are back to it, it depends on the initiative that if you're rolling out a new product, it may be customer sentiment, customer adoption.
Adam Larson:Mhmm.
Corey Noyek:It may be revenue. Like, did we actually hit our sales goal because of this item? And then if it's an initiative internally, whether it's from an HR perspective, let's say performance reviews, that's where that employee sentiment may be more important. But there's not a one size fits all definitely for KPIs. However, I would say that it's definitely important to measure.
Corey Noyek:You can't go in and say, hey, we're gonna do this with not thinking, how are we also gonna evaluate how it did retrospectively? And so any project, big or small, I am a firm believer of you do need that retrospective. You do need a way of measuring. Was it a success? And so one thing that, that teams do sometimes forget is they determine that measurement after the fact.
Corey Noyek:Mhmm. And it's very important, the same as I said before, like having that unified business objective, you also have to have a clear goal and metric of what does success look like for a project. If your project is a new adoption of a product, then that's where you can use adoption metrics to say, was it successful? If you build something in your product and no one uses it, just saying, hey, it's out the door. Well, was that the objective?
Corey Noyek:And therefore, was it a successful collaboration and project? So again, it's bringing those metrics to the front and understanding before you even start, how are we gonna measure success versus a lot of times teams fall into traps where they build everything. And then at the end, they say, great, it's out. How are we going to now see and track it going forward? And it's now a limitation of now, how do we even set that up?
Adam Larson:I like that about setting it beforehand. Because a lot of times, you know, you're done with a project, and they're like, let's have a post mortem. And it's like the worst name for a meeting ever. But that's where you you start, oh, what what what went well, what didn't go well, which are which are great things to do. And so you have to look at the team, not only the metrics of how that affected the company, but how would the the team work well together?
Adam Larson:And maybe there's a better way to call it than post mortem.
Corey Noyek:And it also, even on that of, if you kind of wait until the end, you look back and you say, well, what information do I have now that I can reflect on?
Adam Larson:Yeah.
Corey Noyek:Versus if you start at the beginning, as you're going, you're ensuring you actually collect that information. And so from a reflection perspective and really an evaluation of success, you'll have the metrics versus being in a state where, well, this is the best I can do. So it kind of feels like this is a good enough measure to see if it's successful. Great. It looks like we did well.
Adam Larson:Yeah. Now every collaboration not every collaboration is all perfect. Doesn't go well. There's no sunshine and rainbows flying at you everywhere. You know, are there some common roadblocks that you've seen and that have been encountered and maybe some solutions to overcome those as you're working with different
Corey Noyek:teams? Yeah. Collaboration, at the end of the day, you're dealing with
Corey Noyek:people
Corey Noyek:and you're dealing with relationships. And some people, depending on their personality, characteristics, what's going on in their life, yes, it's it it definitely has their challenges. So one thing I would always remember, we're dealing with people. In any collaboration at the end of the day, it's a it's a person on the other end. So there is that behavioral aspect of it and just taking that step back and recognizing that that we're all people, people run the business.
Corey Noyek:But what I would say is leaning on that as well. That's where you do fall into challenges with collaboration. A lot of times you'll have resistance to change. Most people, all people, but, you know, I would say most people don't love change. No.
Corey Noyek:And so it's a level of resistance that depending on the initiative, and that's where I go back to bringing people in early, making sure that they feel heard will help allow that resistance to whatever you are trying to implement from not going sideways
Corey Noyek:And really being a success. Another one is even in that initial scoping perspective, anchoring on an idea is a common thing. So if you have everyone in a room, you know, you may have the individual who who's the loudest in the room and they say, I have a great idea. And everyone in the room says, oh, I love that. Let's do it.
Corey Noyek:You've now anchored on that one idea, and there could have been a multitude of other ideas that would have been better or different with, different outcomes. And so really, what I would say is don't just anchor on the first idea and don't just anchor on the loudest idea. Really have that process of thinking through the different alternatives. And that's where, again, from that silo, having different perspectives allow us to get different opportunities and ideas coming to the table. So when we know that we made a decision, it wasn't just the only one we had on the table.
Corey Noyek:Another thing is definitely anytime you do encounter that resistance or anchoring or any challenges during the process, once you make a decision, you're allowed to have healthy debate debate, you're allowed to have healthy discussions. But as soon as as a team, you've decided on something, you need to be committed and agree on going forward with it. And so that's where again, during that initial phase of the project, have that healthy discussion, think through all the challenges, bring in all the stakeholders. But as soon as you say, hey, this is what we're going with the whole team, again, back to a business objective, you need to be aligned and consistent and like, onboard with that plan going forward.
Adam Larson:Well, and then you have to bring in, you know, good project management to get away from scope creep and stuff like that. And great facilitators are able to get all the voices because you always have your rock stars, the people who speak every time that that something's asked. But the person who's sitting there quietly, that's person you wanna hear from because a lot of times, they're they're contemplating more, and they may take a little longer to process it, and you wanna make sure you're hearing from them.
Corey Noyek:And that's exactly it. And that's where it goes back to you from kind of, it's the people you're dealing with. Yeah. And so really as leaders and as individuals that are working in
Announcer:collaboration with other people, you really want to move away.
Corey Noyek:I I'm solutions mindset in that term and really moved to a curiosity mindset. And so that's where I'm not trying to get to the answer. Yeah. I'm trying to understand more. I'm trying to get more information.
Corey Noyek:I'm trying to ask more thought leading questions that then I can get to a a good decision. But it doesn't start with that decision. My main objective at the very end, yes, I'm gonna make a decision. But you wanna leave with that curiosity mindset to really keep asking questions. So to your point, if you have that quieter individual, asking them, hey, is there anything that you think we may want to do different?
Corey Noyek:And so again, shifting that to not quickly get to a decision Yeah. But thoughtfully getting to that decision and making sure you've explored different avenues is where I recommend leaders or and and everyone really to to kind of shift that tone. And that's what will will build both healthy opportunity and ideas as well as make smoother collaboration.
Adam Larson:Now one thing, we we can't have this conversation about collaboration and not talk about the technology we use to collaborate. Because, you know, you you mentioned that during COVID, you know, everybody started working from home. A lot of times, the 1 on 1 conversations kind of started again, and we may not bring everybody to the conversation. But there's also tools to help, you know, bring more people to the conversation. Like, you can have 10 people, and everybody's in a different country, and you can collaborate that way.
Adam Larson:Are there different tools or game changing technologies that you've seen that really help revolutionize how we collaborate?
Corey Noyek:So I think there's a lot of good project management tools.
Corey Noyek:I
Corey Noyek:think product management and staying organized is always important. Yeah. I think and this will sound very backing from my accounting background, and we like to document and audit, but really Mhmm.
Corey Noyek:It's
Corey Noyek:just so you can have more transparency and consistency. Yeah. We're not very good with memory. And so if you're just having a conversation and don't thoroughly document what the process is, document what the plan is, you're likely gonna have missteps and also some gaps in what people took away from the meeting. So I would say a documentation tool or a project management tool is important.
Corey Noyek:What I would say and caveat that is there are a lot of tools that are similar, but they're only as good as the team using it. Mhmm. If you don't continue to actually utilize and and actively engage with the tool, which is what typically happens with individuals. And it trickles off as soon as it trickles off, you're back in that same space. So if you are going to adopt a tool, you have to commit to actually using it.
Corey Noyek:Because that is where it will fail. And it's not a fail it's not a failure of the tool. Again, it's back on the individual that just it didn't work for them and they stopped using it. Mhmm. We can't touch on technology though.
Corey Noyek:What I would like to highlight is because every single time I keep getting a question of, oh, how are you guys using AI? How are you using AI? It's on the buzz. And I would also put an asterisk on AI. There is we are we are going through a awesome shift.
Corey Noyek:I think where we will see AI is gonna be around productivity, getting thought quickly. However, especially in the realm of collaboration, AI is an easy scapegoat. AI is an easy crutch. You can throw some information into chat GPT and get a really quick answer that was pretty good really quickly. However, going back to everything that we've all that we've been saying, you're missing a lot of perspectives.
Corey Noyek:You're missing actually bringing stakeholders in. So, yes, you can get an answer quickly. But, again, going back to that's a solutions mindset. Mhmm. If I want the right answer or the answer that chat g p t gets me back, I can do it really quickly.
Corey Noyek:But you're not gonna get that curiosity mindset and actually talk to the people who know the problem, who are gonna experience the problem, who are gonna help with the solution, and get those insights and perspectives that are actually gonna likely lead you to better solutions. So, yes, I love that AI is becoming very predominant in our space and in the work life. However, we do have to be cautious. And I do think that there's nothing better than the traditional having a real conversation with a real person. And even if that is in a Zoom chat or different ways that you can still facilitate that ability to have that collaboration.
Corey Noyek:But I I do fear that there's the crux of people leaning in on AI that, oh, I don't need to do that that meeting because I'll just throw it into chat GPT. And it can get me a lot of that information or into other tools. And AI will eventually do that and things of that nature. So really, you're just by the use of AI, at least for right now, you wouldn't lose out on a lot of that different perspectives.
Corey Noyek:And then on top of it, as I keep saying, we're dealing with people. Yeah. And so if you're replacing an AI bot to try and get diverse perspectives, you're also missing out on building those individuals. And so from a development perspective, that's where, again, technology should be an enabler to help people grow, but they shouldn't replace them entirely. And so by giving folks opportunities and stakeholders to be brought in and actually give their thoughts, give their opinions, you're also helping develop them as people.
Adam Larson:I like that. And and one of the biggest things in the conversation with AI is always remembering that it is a tool. It is not a replacement of anything. It is a tool to help you do a daily task or something like that. Like, a lot of times, I'll I've seen in collaboration efforts, or they've been working on some wording, and they'll throw it into AI.
Adam Larson:They get some other ideas on on wordsmithing things, but there's still that conversation happening. It's a tool that you use, not something to replace. And I I think that's a really important message to not forget, especially when it comes to AI. So as, you know, as things continue to evolve, what are some skills and mindsets that we have to have as, you know, to foster successful collaboration? If if you're listening to this conversation, you're like, I don't know if I've been a good collaborator.
Adam Larson:What are some ways to, to help develop ourselves to be to upskill ourselves, to be better at collaboration in the future?
Corey Noyek:Yeah. So I really think it goes back to thinking about all the stakeholders.
Corey Noyek:Again, big and small, what their impact is, what stage to bring them in. But too many times, we quickly jump to that solution. We quickly think we have the answer. Mhmm. And so allowing for collaboration support team a support team or an engineering team, but really fostering that collaboration early and not defaulting to, I know the answer.
Corey Noyek:And
Corey Noyek:that's right. Now I'll reiterate around that solutions mindset is what tends to from a personality and and and person perspective, that's what will default us to say, I don't need to talk to them because I know. However, I would push back and say, well, why not talk to them anyways and utilize that curiosity mindset? And if you find out exactly what you thought you would, great. That just confirmed it even further.
Corey Noyek:And so, really, that's where that change of mindset is, is don't jump to a conclusion. Go confirm and reiterate a conclusion. And to be honest, you may be surprised and find out something different. And so before you go down the rabbit hole, let's say, with building a new product, if you haven't had those conversations or haven't thought through all those avenues, that's where, again, you wanna make sure that you have all that information so you can actually get to the right spot. Mhmm.
Corey Noyek:So really ask me as many questions as possible. And as we touched on, you don't always have to be the loudest. You don't always have to be the quickest. We don't always have to get things out the door right away. Sometimes by taking that step back and making sure and evaluating again will actually allow us to make a better decision so that you don't have to backtrack.
Corey Noyek:Because in anything, especially in the SaaS world, that if you deploy something and then have to pull it back, that's way worse than if you would have taken a few extra days or weeks and said, okay. Let's make sure we have everything correct. Let's make sure we've considered everything and then deploy it.
Adam Larson:So having a curious mindset, a lot of times, comes back to asking questions. Do you have advice for people who maybe don't feel like they ask the right questions? Like, what is what's the what are the right questions? What's the, what's the right way to approach approach asking questions?
Corey Noyek:Yeah. So questions are the best, but that's where it goes back to you. You can't just ask why. It's good to ask why, but I I I joke around sometimes that in meetings, I want to be the 5 year old that is typically, you know, like, they say why, and then you give them an answer, they go why, and then they give you another answer why, and then and it keeps going.
Corey Noyek:Yeah. However, you wanna also make sure that, again, we're dealing with people. And so you're getting the right environment and getting also the right answers from that person. And so that's where if you continue to ask why and if it's in the tone and really the basis of what you're asking for, you don't want it to feel judgmental. You don't want to feel targeted.
Corey Noyek:Like, why did you do that this way? I told you if we would have done it. And so see how it's really a written poem that you're working with. And it goes back to that curiosity. Yeah.
Corey Noyek:So it's really to understand. So have you considered this? What do you think we could have done differently? How do you think this would have impacted these individuals? So again, it's more of those probing questions.
Adam Larson:Okay.
Corey Noyek:But with the intention and at least with the tone of, I'm trying to understand, versus a lot of times when we ask why, it could be judgmental, and it could be very targeted. And that's where, especially from a collaboration perspective, people's walls go out really quickly. And once you build a wall, especially a cement wall, it's pretty hard to take it down. Mhmm. So, again, that you really wanna make sure that in collaboration, you're working with others.
Corey Noyek:It's something to definitely be cognizant about and making sure that you're asking those questions, but in that framework instead versus trying to to get a bit too targeted as well even from that is it's the same thing of if you ask targeted questions, you're kind of trying to lead someone in a direction, which again goes back to, I don't wanna be solutions oriented. I really do wanna understand and get more information, and that will allow us to identify if that idea may not even be the best one available. So again, open to that curiosity.
Adam Larson:Yeah. Be curious. I I love that. I love that curiosity mindset. Corey, I just wanna thank you so much for coming on podcast.
Adam Larson:This has been a great conversation, and I really hope, everyone connects with you and checks out what you're doing, at Card Data. And, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Corey Noyek:Nice. It was great. Thanks again.
Announcer:This has been Count Me In, IMA's podcast providing you with the latest perspectives of thought leaders from the accounting and finance profession. If you like what you heard and you'd like to be counted in for more relevant accounting and finance education, visit IMA's website at www.ima net.org.