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Unlocking Retail Media is the essential podcast for leaders and marketers navigating the rapidly evolving world of retail advertising. We move beyond day-to-day operations to explore the strategic future of the industry, covering major investment trends, the shift to hybrid marketplace models, and the existential disruption posed by Agentic Commerce. Host James Avery brings in top industry veterans and visionary founders to analyze how ground-breaking technology is transforming customer journeys, influencing product catalogs, and forcing retailers to rethink on-site, in-store, and digital media strategies to remain competitive in the modern age.
In general, I think brands are
looking for a lift in sales.
You know, if we push it a little
bit more, they're looking for
an incremental lift in sales.
If you push it a little bit more,
they're looking for a incremental return
on those specific dollars invested.
I think it boils down to am I meeting my
objective and am I growing the business?
Welcome to Unlocking Retail Media, the
podcast where we explore the evolving
world of retail media from data strategy
to monetization and everything in between.
This is where we break down how retailers
can build smarter data-driven media
networks by aligning with what brands
truly need from scalable ad solutions
and meaningful metrics to cross-channel
attribution and programmatic strategy.
We've had a lot of conversations on
the podcast with guests that bring
a, a ton of different perspectives.
Uh, my guest today, Art Sebastian, is
bringing one of the most well-rounded
perspectives in retail media right
now because he has literally done
it from just about every angle.
As someone who's worked on the
merchandising side at Albertsons and
Jewel-Osco, the data side at IRI, the
brand side at Kraft Heinz, e-commerce
with Meijer, and then built Casey's
retail media program from the ground up,
and then went on to found NextChapter.
Art has a career path and a unique
perspective that you don't see too often.
Uh, at NextChapter, he's advising
retailers and brands on how to make retail
media actually work, and he's kinda living
on both sides of the industry every day.
Art, thanks for joining me.
Hey.
Thanks, James.
Excited to be here.
So it's, uh, yes, this is exciting.
I know we've, we've chatted a couple
times, but I think you're… you
kinda have this unique background,
um, of, of kind of doing, doing
all these different, uh, pieces.
Um, so I kinda think about, like,
where, where do we wanna start?
Um, I'd actually love to, uh, maybe
the, the most recent one, I think is,
is really interesting of, of Casey's.
Like, I think Casey's probably isn't a,
you know, it's not a global brand name,
so maybe give us, give us a second on,
like, kinda who Casey's was and then, and
then how you, how you kinda built that.
Sure.
Yeah.
Casey's is a, is an
interesting story, James.
It's probably one of the larger companies
that many aren't fully aware of.
Uh, the company's based in Iowa and has
almost 3,000 sites across 20 states,
uh, primarily in the Midwest and now
the South all the way down into Texas.
Uh, Casey's is a Fortune 500 retailer
that sells fuel, everyday groceries, and
they're most well-known for their pizza.
They happen to be the fifth-largest
pizza chain in the country, so really
unique, uh, operator in that sense.
Yeah, I love… This is one of the
things I was telling somebody recently.
One of the things I love about,
about retail and commerce media
is, like, getting to learn about
all these, you know, unique
retailers out there in the world.
There's these, you know, Midwest
retailers I'd never heard of, and
I never would've guessed that, you
know, a kind of, you know, semi
convenience chain is the fifth-largest
pizza, uh, chain in the country.
Yeah.
They've been doing it for a long time,
and they sell a whole lot of pizza
slices when you're on the go but also
have a pretty big whole pie business
that is just like you'd expect.
You can order ahead in an app, and
it can be delivered, or you can
head to the store to pick it up.
And what's really cool, James, is
you could go pick it up, but you can
also pick up your energy drinks and
your tobacco products and a gallon of
milk and anything else you need from
your typical convenience store run.
It's kinda like, uh, another brand that
people don't know is Royal Farms over in,
in, uh, my home state of Maryland where,
you know, it's like you get your, your,
like, tub of chicken along with your gas.
Uh, and it's, it's actually pretty good.
So with Casey's, you know, thinking about
building, you know, what does a, what
does a retail media network look like
for, you know, something that's, that's
both gas, convenience, and pizza, right?
Like, how did, how did you kinda
go, go about building that?
You know, uh, it looks really interesting.
That's what it looks like.
I spent five years there, James,
and when I started, I led, uh, the
digital transformation, and by the
time I left, I led all of marketing.
So I, I watched over all
advertising media, PR, and digital.
And, uh, during the five years I was
there, I spent the first few years
with the team building out the tech
stack, so putting the right parts
and pieces in place and building the
customer engagement and definitely
focusing on first-party data.
So that was the immediate priority.
Like, let's set the foundation,
let's get all the infrastructure in
place, and let's engage customers.
And after a few years of doing that,
we, we sort of took it to the next
level and launched Casey's Access, uh,
which is exactly what it sounds like.
We gave advertisers access to all of
that rich customer data and all of that
media inventory that we had built up
over time And one thing that's really
unique, and, and we can get into some,
uh, differences versus traditional
retail media and commerce media, but, um,
Casey's is in small towns across the US.
So, um, you know, towns of 5,000 or less,
or 20,000 or less, and very suburban.
And so you're just reaching
customers that a lot of other
media networks don't get every day.
Yeah, I think, I think it's fascinating.
And, and how much of the mix
was, you know, was it in store?
Was it digital?
You know, it sounds like the app
is probably pretty popular if
that's how you order your pizza.
Uh, you know, how do, how do you
think about the, kinda the, the
medium, uh, like the, the mix there?
Yeah, you know, it's
a pretty balanced mix.
Um, you know, we always like
to think about it in terms
of omni-channel packages.
So, uh, both a balance of your
traditional digital, uh, channels,
which would be web, mobile app,
and all of the CRM capabilities.
Um, your offsite, so taking those
audiences out into the World Wide Web,
into socials, into Google, et cetera.
And then I think the biggest difference,
James, is the role that the store plays.
And when you're in the convenience
and fuel business, it's, it's
different than a traditional grocer
or retailer in the sense that you've
got, uh, what we call a four court,
the, the fuel islands where customers
fill their, their cars up with gas.
And what makes that space really
unique is there's a whole lot of real
estate for printed signage, uh, which
I'm sure you and others have seen
often when you're filling up your gas.
But there's also this opportunity
to leverage fuel pump screens, and
you've got a consumer filling their,
their car with gas, and you have their
attention for, like, a minute or two.
Yeah.
You're watching ads of relevant stuff
that's in the store, and it sorta
drives pump to in-store conversion.
And so that's one piece that's really
unique in the, in the industry.
And you were able to, like, say you
can untie all of that together, right?
Like, I think, I, I've seen some, you
know, some stores will kinda outsource all
of the, the TV screens or they'll, they'll
outsource some other part of it and then,
and not really be able to have, like, an
omni-channel offering when you do that.
Yeah, some, some chains end up, if
they're not well-resourced or they're,
they're investing in other areas, you can
outsource, and there are providers who,
who will take up those screens and, and
run ads, again, with some guardrails and
that sort of thing, and split the revenue.
But, you know, when, when we did
it, uh, we kept control of it.
That way you can tie in, uh, the
email messaging that a customer
gets as well as what you see at the
pump, and then when you come in the
store and there are digital screens
or, or shelf talkers and all that
sort of stuff, everything ties in.
Um, 'cause what's really important
here, James, is as, as, as you build
out these programs is, uh, you're
orchestrating all of the messaging
and all the ads so that the customer
that's shopping, it makes sense to them.
Yeah.
Uh, so.
And then you can tie, I mean, this
was, it kind of ties into one of
the topics we always end up talking
about, uh, we'll just get there
quickly, uh, is attribution, right?
Like, I think it's the other thing it
ties into is, like, if you're, if you're
controlling everything, you can actually
then tie it back to the real shopping
behavior and understand that, hey, James
saw this ad as he was filling up his
tank, and then he, you know, saw this
end cap as he walked in the store, and
then he'd never bought a Monster energy
drink before, but he did today, right?
Right.
Yeah, and when you're running ads at the
fuel pump, uh, you know, as the technology
becomes more available, consumers end
up punching in their loyalty program
number, and now they're authenticated.
So we know James is at the pump, and
therefore we show this ad. And within,
you know, a five-minute range or whatever
appropriate time range, we know you're
in the store making a transaction.
We can tie all that together.
Yeah.
How do you think about, um… Did
you, did you all do in-store audio?
Like, I'm hearing more
about in-store audio lately.
Like, we had Sean Chaney
from CUSIC on here.
Like, they're, they're kinda making
some noise in the market, but, uh, was
that, was that a piece of it as well?
Yeah, absolutely.
And I, I go way back with Sean, and,
uh, I'm a huge in-store audio fan.
Um, actually, James, I launched
audio, uh, my first year in more
as, uh, sort of to set the mood
and improve the experience, right?
So there were no ads when
we first launched it.
It was just to take the shopping
experience and make it even more,
more delightful, if you will.
And then over time, uh, the, the
opportunity to have appropriate ads,
um, became available to us, and so we
added that to the, to the campaign suite.
Nice.
And so, uh, so kind of, you know,
built out Casey's, and now the
next, you know, n- no pun intended,
the next chapter is Next Chapter.
Uh, what's, uh, what's,
what was the motivation?
What, what, uh, you know, what
are you, what are you guys doing?
What, what kind of inspired
you to go out and build this?
Yeah, you know, I, uh, have been in
the retail industry for over 30 years.
That, that's hard to say 'cause it
seems so long, but my entire working
career has been in this industry.
I started as a kid bagging
groceries and stocking shelves,
and I really never left it.
And so when you think about the
experience I've accumulated over my
time at Jewel, and Albertsons, and
Kraft Foods, and Meijer, and then
Casey's, um, you know, I was really
excited about making a much bigger
impact across the industry and taking
everything I've learned and, and helping
retailers advance their initiatives.
So, um, look, in, in the work that
we do, uh, there's complexity.
Um, there's not just technology
choices, but there's also orchestrating
marketing campaigns, building
cross-functional teams, selecting the
right partners, and there's a lot there.
And given how many times I've done it
now, I've learned a few things, and
so I'm able to help retailers move
even faster and, in some cases, avoid
pitfalls that I've already experienced.
Makes sense.
And you're also, uh, you're, like,
running some conferences, or involved
with some conferences as well, right?
Yeah.
You know, the core of our business
is serving clients, for sure, James.
It's- it's helping them think through
strategy and then execute and then,
you know, really running programs.
Um, but as I think about making a bigger
impact on the industry, we've launched,
uh, some smaller, more intimate events.
So, uh, these events pull together
operators and technology leaders into
much more intimate settings where you're
not feeling rushed, and you're not
running from one place to another, but
you're spending quality time together.
And the whole intent there is that we
could lay out problems and solve them.
We can lay out opportunities and come
up with practical ways to pursue them.
So for us, that's a big part of giving
back to the industry and helping
sort of raise all tides, if you will.
And so, uh, you're right, James, I
balance my time, uh, running the firm,
uh, helping clients myself, I'm actively
working with clients, and then, uh,
some of these events that we've pulled
together to make a bigger impact.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
So let's, let's get into a little bit
about the, the kinda market today, right?
So kinda retail media, where it stands.
Uh, you know, one of the, one of the
things we hear a lot about, um, is, you
know, that a lot of the spend going on
is still kinda just trade dollars, right?
It's just trade dollars by another name.
Um, you know, but you've, you've
kinda, you've been on the brand side.
You've, you've worked on the retail side.
Like, what, what's, what's it
take to unlock some of these
performance budgets, right?
To kinda, to get above the,
you know, the trade dollars?
Um, make an impact.
Drive a meaningful impact,
and it unlocks investment.
Um, that's, that's, at the end of the day,
uh, you know, I think that's the reality.
Now, there's a couple
angles to this, James.
If I'm a CPG brand or an
advertiser, I want a return, right?
And, and the, the return can be
different to different brands or,
or based on the objective, right?
If it's trial on a product, if it's just
pure exposure, if it's reducing frequency
of purchase or, or it's a sales uplift.
So net-net, the brand
wants some sort of return.
If I'm the retailer, um, I've advised
my retail clients not to get too hung up
on where the budget comes from, right?
What I, what I challenge them to
think about is to build the best
program possible, to work really
hard to orchestrate the marketing
and media campaigns so they can be
really efficient and drive value.
Now, whether the investment comes from
the trade budget and is repurposed
or comes from a greater trade budget
that you didn't have access to or a
headquarter brand budget, to me, for
the retailer, it doesn't matter Right?
Yeah.
You're just, you're just
trying to drive- Dollars,
dollars are dollars.
Yeah.
Dollars are dollars, drive the
business, and deliver impact
for your advertising clients.
So it's, uh, it leads to the question
of, you know, I think it makes
total sense, um, right, like if
you actually show results, right?
'Cause a lot of times the trade dollars,
you know, retailers kind of felt like
they were owed that, and, you know,
it wasn't, there wasn't a focus on
how do we actually show the results.
But what, you know, you know,
thinking about from your brand side,
right, like how, how do brands--
what are they looking for when you,
when we talk about results, right?
Like, what's the… At the end
of the day, is it incrementality?
Is it just ROAS?
Is it, you know-
Yeah
… something else, right?
Yeah.
I-- This is so funny.
I just had a conversation with
a brand this morning about this.
Uh, and, you know, again, depends, right?
Depends on what they're investing,
uh, in the campaign to do, right?
If you're launching a new product,
uh, the metrics that they're gonna
look at are gonna be different than if
you're just driving the base business
or if a brand is trying to acquire
net new customers in a category.
So it depends.
But in general, I think brands
are looking for a lift in sales.
You know, if we push it a little
bit more, they're looking for
an incremental lift in sales.
If you push it a little bit more,
they're looking for a incremental return
on those specific dollars invested.
Now, under the hood, there's lots of
other metrics that we're looking at.
We're looking at impressions.
We are looking at, you
know, click-through rate.
We're looking to see if we can try
to drive more visits, if we can close
the frequency gap and purchase cycle.
So all those things are really important.
I think it boils down to am I meeting my
objective and am I growing the business,
um, in whatever terms that, that means
based on the, the campaign objective.
Yeah.
I think a lot of it, it's funny, it kinda
comes back to, you know, I spent a lot
of time in more traditional advertising
where, you know, this is the job of a
good ad salesperson, right, is working
with an agency, working with a, a buyer,
understanding what their objectives are,
helping them build out a media plan.
You know, how, how are we gonna
help you hit your objectives?
I feel like a lot of retailers, you
know, that's not already in their DNA.
Like, how do you, how do you-- when you're
talking to a retailer, is it, you know,
do you, you encourage them to go hire,
you know, hire these kind of sales folks?
Are there people in the industry that
you promote, or are they, you know…
How do, how do you think about
building the people that have
that, have that skill set?
You know, we are very fortunate to, uh,
support retailers and their retail media
programs, so we're, we're in the, uh,
strategy phase with a couple of retailers.
We're also operating it with,
with a retailer alongside them.
And I'm seeing a mix of retailers
taking internal talent and
developing them into the media space.
So you've gotta learn a new set of
metrics, a new way of doing business,
and, and now as a retailer, you
have clients that you need to serve,
and, and you have to have account
management, all that sort of stuff.
Um, and then the balance to that is,
how do you, uh, bring on talent who's
already experienced in this space?
And they might come from
agencies or technology providers.
Ultimately, I think it's a good
thing to mix up the talent pool,
uh, so that you have people who
look different and have different
experiences as you build the program.
You know, the one thing, James, that, that
I will say is, um, is something we spend
a lot of time on, is the relationship
between the marketing organization
and the merchandising organization
You gotta be in lockstep, right?
And, and that's, that's challenging,
'cause some of this stuff is
new, especially to merchants.
Yeah, there was… I did a, a, one of
our podcasts was with, uh, the guy from,
uh, iFood, um, and he wa- he was talking
about, you know, how they, how they'd
really built out a good, uh, plan for
kind of this in-kind, you know, or not
even in-kind, like, uh, co-sponsorships,
right, co-marketing, right?
Where he was like, "Well, we're now
running all of that through retail media."
And I was like, "Oh, well, how do you,
how do you kinda, how did you work with
the marketing group?" And he's like,
"No, no, no, they gave it to me." Like,
he basically, they, they basically
gave retail media all of the, uh, the
kind of co-marketing piece, because
it did tie so well together, right?
Like, if, if, you know, like in the
Casey's example, right, if Monster
wants to run an ad in Iowa and, you
know, co-run it with Casey's, you
know, like, where does that live?
A lot of times right now it lives
over in the marketing department, not,
like, in the retail media department.
And so there, you're right that
there's a lot of, that coordination
can be tough, 'cause there's also
kinda, like, turf wars and things
like that that come into play, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
And, uh, I could tell you, I've had a lot
of fun helping retail clients navigate
through that, and really we've seen some
success when you take the retail media and
marketing programs and make them a part
of the joint business planning process.
So you bring it in a JBP.
Now you've got the merchant and
the vendor partners aligned.
Um, you open it up to non-endemic
advertisers, and there's
a whole process for that.
But I think the, the JBP is a great way
to kinda bring all parties together on the
planning, and then, look, the marketing
and the media teams, uh, once you align
on plans, they have another set of plans
with their technology providers to make
sure automation is set, and, you know,
all the triggers for the campaigns,
and the orchestration of the messaging.
So there's quite a bit of, of
collaboration needed these days
to, to put a good program together
and run it cycle over cycle with,
with continuous improvement.
Yeah.
I think it's, it's one of the kind
of fascinating things when we talk to
retailers is that, yes, part of the, you
know, part of the problem is technology.
We help with the technology.
A bigger part of the problem is
often organizational structure
and organizational alignment
and, and kinda getting everybody
moving in the right direction.
You're right.
Um, you know, if you look back, uh, maybe
even five to 10 years ago, as operators,
we always wished we had more technology.
We could have rattled off
all the things that we saw as
gaps and needed tech to solve.
If you fast-forward to today, all
that technology's available, like the
things you've done recently, right?
All the technology that we hoped
and dreamed for is available now.
The talent and the operating
model hasn't fully caught up.
And so that's a big place where we help
clients think about how to resource,
how to staff, how to collaborate, and
leverage all that amazing new technology.
Yeah, we actually… There was…
Recently we were talking to, uh,
one of the retailers we work with
and, and talking about how, how
should retail media be structured.
And they actually, you know, there
was kinda like this informal survey
of every retailer and, and where does
it live and how is it structured.
And it's almost somewhat unique-
You know, there's a couple
buckets you can put it in, right?
Where sometimes it's a totally
different division, right?
Like Amazon, right?
Where it's like ads is a
totally separate business unit.
Uh, but then you have, you know, Walmart,
where it's a little bit different.
And then you have some retailers it's
under marketing, some it's under, you
know, uh, directly to the CEO, some
it's under, you know, merchandising.
Um, you know, what have, what
have, uh, what have you seen?
Or what do you think the best practices
are, like, and how to, and how to,
like, think about the org structure
for a, for a retail media network?
You know, if it's, uh, if it's really
big in terms of size and scale, I think
it typically stands out on its own.
Like, like we see at some
really large retailers, Amazon-
Yeah
Walmart, you know,
Target, Kroger, et cetera.
So when it's that big,
it stands on its own.
When you look at the, um, sort of
medium-sized retailers and even
the smaller-sized retailers, it's
typically sitting inside of marketing.
And honestly, my view is that's okay,
'cause that tends to be the group
that's more, more focused on the
customer and customer experiences.
But regardless of where the retail
media team formally sits and
reports into, uh, the level of
collaboration doesn't change, right?
So the media team, retail
media team's gotta constantly
collaborate with advertising,
PR, and marketing counterparts.
Um, equally as such with the
technology teams that are providing
those capabilities and then, um,
increasingly with the merchant teams-
Right
um, and all the vendor relationships.
But James, we also see the media
team having to spend a lot of
time with accounting, right?
On, on, on how the
dollars flow in and out.
With legal and all the changes of
regulation and sort of supply chain
and ops to make sure we're in stock.
If we're promoting a brand or
a product, you gotta make sure
you have it ready for customers.
Yeah.
No, that all makes sense.
So now the, uh, gotten to the
part of the podcast that we always
have to cover, which is AI Um, you
know, obviously, you know, so much
is changing, so much is going on.
Uh, what, what are you seeing kind of
in the retailers you're working with?
Where is, where is AI kind of
changing, you know, changing
what people are focused on?
Yeah.
You know, it's, uh, it's certainly
very, um, front and center at every
client we have, and quite frankly,
every friend we have in the industry.
And obviously the, the, the retailers
that are leaning in, um, and have
dedicated resources and are investing
time and energy into it, they, they
have plans in place and roadmaps.
Then there's sort of another layer
of retailers that are, are still in
the experiment zone, where we see a
whole lot of testing and learning.
Maybe they've got pilots up and
running across, across the business.
And then there's a whole nother
group of retailers that are still
sitting in the wait and see mode.
Yeah.
You know, I tell you, James, uh, we just
hosted, uh, 12 retailers here at our
offices in Des Moines about a month ago,
and, uh, we called it Intersect AI, and
that event was all about practical AI.
So we laid out our framework around AI
approaches and how to think about it.
'Cause when you say the word AI, so
many things pop into your head, right?
A lot of humans are gonna say different
LLM agents- Right … or they're
gonna think about certain things.
And so we've broken it down to, to
make it easy to consume and understand.
And, and the challenge I give
retailers, um, even beyond just retail
media is, you know, build a plan.
You're gonna build a plan, you can
iterate it, you can evolve it, but, but
organize what you're doing, and even more
importantly, what you're not gonna do.
And how do you think… I mean, so
I think there's, you know, when you
think about AI, it's like there's,
there's both how they're using it
for, like, operational efficiencies
internally, but then there's also the
big kind of agentic commerce, and what
is that, what is that changing, right?
Like companies that are-
you know, they're building,
they're building their own agents.
People are like, are they gonna buy
through ChatGPT or Claude or something?
Um, you know, how, how do you,
how do you think about… Like,
I guess there's kind of two sides
on agentic commerce right now.
Which, which side are you on?
Are you somewhere in the middle?
Yeah.
You know, I'm very excited about
agentic commerce, and we could probably
talk about this for a long time.
Um, there are many routes to participating
in the agentic commerce world.
The one route I suggest you
not take is ignoring it.
Right.
Yeah, yeah.
And so, uh, look, at the very least, I
think retailers need to get their data
ready for the agentic transformation
that's happening as we speak, and
getting things, uh, some basic things
right, like getting your Google business
listing updated, your address, your
hours, you know, some basic stuff.
Getting pricing and product assortment,
making sure that everything's readable.
Now, when you get to much more
sophisticated levels, you're talking
about product attributes and adding
a semantic layer to your data because
agents aren't just looking at keywords,
they're looking at semantics, and, and,
you know, consumers are engaging in
full phrases, right, not just keywords.
So I think there's a lot there,
and, you know, we've advised
retailers on a variety of approaches.
You can go embedded agentic, which
is go to your current vendor partners
and, and take on whatever they have.
You can go platform and sign
up with one of the platforms
and start to build your own.
Or you can go full proprietary,
which is gonna be a much smaller
group of folks that have their own
data science team that's- Right
building out agents and
all that sort of stuff.
And how do you, like, where do you
see retail media playing in the,
in the agentic commerce future?
You know, I think honestly, unless
you're the top three or four, uh,
retailers with that level of resource
and capital, you're probably not gonna
lean on the proprietary side because
it just takes so much investment.
I do think all retailers should
watch and observe and learn.
So I think the easiest place to
play is in what I call embedded.
So take your, your current stack
of vendor partners and challenge
them on their capabilities.
And look, they're all advancing, and
so that's a great place to start 'cause
you already have an agreement with them.
They're already integrated into
your system, and that's the
first place to, to step into I
think a couple things, uh, James.
One, I think, uh, uh, product
data is critical, and, um, so
retailers and retail media should
be thinking about enriching product
data to make sure that you show up.
I think leveraging agents to, um, tee
up the right ads, the more relevant ads,
I think that's a good spot to be in.
Um, and then agents even to interact with
your customers, right, in, in some senses.
And all this in addition to agents
doing work in the back end- Right … to
create more efficiencies, right?
Yeah.
So.
Yeah, and I think also it's interesting,
too, because I think the… I've, I've
been thinking about agentic commerce as
like it's gonna be very uneven, right?
Like, in the Casey's example, right, like
I don't, I don't think I'm gonna have
agents, you know, picking things out for
me as I go into the, the gas station, the
grocery store to grab some milk, right?
Um- Yeah … versus an, I might have an
agent buy my next refrigerator, right?
But I'm gonna be involved in it, right?
I'm not gonna say, "Just go, go do
that." Versus like an Instacart,
where you might say, "Yeah, I
trust the agent to just order me,
order me food for the week," right?
And that, that can be totally automated.
Well, you think about that, that
Casey's example or, quite frankly, any
convenience or ful- op- fuel operator,
um, maybe we don't have an agent buy
something from a convenience store,
but maybe the agent decides which
convenience store I'm gonna go to-
Right
on the route from A to B. And so that's
what I mean about getting your data
updated, um, because you're not even
in the consideration set if your data's
not available for, for the agents.
Um, and I, and I do think, you know,
as, as… let's take convenience and
grocery as leaning more into prepared
foods, um, sort of to compete for
share of stomach with restaurants.
I think consumers are looking at all
channels of trade, whether you're a QSR,
a grocer, or a convenience store chain.
They're just looking for a meal.
Yeah, yeah.
Sometimes it's about cost.
Sometimes it's about taste and flavor.
And, you know, sometimes I can't
make up my mind, and I just rely
on an agent to pick it for me.
Yeah.
Totally see that.
Stepping back a little bit, like the
bigger picture, um, you know, where do
you… You know, you've been in retail
media, or you've been in retail for a
long time, been in retail media probably
for before it was called retail media.
Yeah,
yeah.
Um, where, where do you see things going?
Where do you think we are, you
know, three, five years from
now in the, in the market?
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, I see a
couple things here, James.
One is there's more and more technology
advancements happening, which I love,
I know you love, and your, you and
your company are a big part of that.
But like I said earlier, there's more
tech than our talent and operating models
can, can support, so that's something
that we're gonna continue to deal with.
Um, quite frankly, because of the tech,
there's more media inventory opening up.
New inventory, right?
Yeah.
Whether it's in store, it's on site,
it's off site, there are more inventory
channels and tactics that we can
deploy than we've ever had before.
Um, and the role of data
continues to increase, right?
E- every retailer's focused
on first-party data.
They have a lot of it.
They're enriching it, um,
all that sort of stuff.
So we live in a world of a lot of
stuff, and so, um, where's it gonna go?
There's, there's no secret
that investment's increasing.
I think it's gonna add
pressure into two spots.
Uh, one is for the media network, retail
media, commerce media, making sure
you're orchestrating all that stuff.
Right.
That the messages and the ads are
all really seamless to consumers so
they don't feel like they're just
getting hit with so many messages.
And look, it's easier to say that.
I was an operator for a long time.
It's hard work to orchestrate your
entire, you know, enterprise marketing
plus retail media capabilities.
So I think that's a big focus.
Now, will there be technology
companies that can orchestrate it?
Yes, and, and we need to put focus there.
The second one that I wanna raise is one
that's often talked about, measurement.
Measurement will continue
to be a big focus.
As the budget increases, uh,
the pressure to deliver results,
whatever those specific metrics
are, is gonna continue to increase.
So you got attribution,
you have alignment.
All this stuff is gonna be a big
focus in the next coming years.
Awesome.
And what, uh, last, last piece, if you
were gonna give one piece of advice
to, uh, you know, somebody building a
retail media network right now, right?
'Cause we have a lot of people
listening who are, you know,
somewhere in the stage of, of, of
building a retail media network.
What's, what's the one piece
of advice you'd give them?
Um, beg, borrow, and steal shamelessly.
Look at your peers, uh, see what
they've done, uh, take it and
rightsize it for yourself, and don't
be afraid to ask partners for help.
Brands, tech companies, thought leaders
like myself, reach out and get some help
so you can build the best program for you.
Awesome.
Well, thank you, Art.
This has been great.
It's been great to have you on.
Yeah.
Thanks, James.
I enjoyed it.
I appreciate it.
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