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Jay Swanson takes his garage monologues to the couch, where anything goes. Friends drop by to ruin the monologue element and discuss everything from what goes on behind the scenes to current events and more.
[01:00:00.00] - Speaker 1
So basically it's like, it's like a movie. So basically we, for us, every coffee shop has a story to tell.
[01:00:07.09] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:00:07.17] - Speaker 1
When it comes to coffee, just like in a movie, maybe coffee there is the protagonist.
[01:00:14.18] - Speaker 2
Yes.
[01:00:15.17] - Speaker 1
So it's the, it's the experience. It's the reason you will go to this place.
[01:00:21.20] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:00:22.06] - Speaker 1
Spider-Man in Spider-Man.
[01:00:24.07] - Speaker 2
Perfect. Okay. Yeah. Spider-Man's the hero. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:00:27.08] - Speaker 1
Or Coffee could be a supporting character, right? Like MJ, Ned. So coffee there has an important role,
but it's not the main one. So maybe along with, I don't know, food or granola, pastries, something else.
[01:00:42.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:00:42.18] - Speaker 1
Then you have cameo Easter eggs. Yeah, I'm gonna still use the Spider-Man reference because, uh,
before he passed away, Stan Lee—
[01:00:51.14] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:00:52.07] - Speaker 1
Used to make brief appearances in all Spider-Man movies.
[01:00:55.18] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:00:56.06] - Speaker 1
So it's there, but, you know, kind of briefly. Maybe you will go to this coffee shop 5 times. You won't
really notice specialty coffees there.
[01:01:05.07] - Speaker 2
Right.
[01:01:05.17] - Speaker 1
Okay. And last but unfortunately not least, extra.
[01:01:10.17] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:01:11.09] - Speaker 1
So many places now, coffee is barely there.
[01:01:21.15] - Speaker 2
One of the statistics that consistently blows my mind is the ratio of people who watch or listen to the
show versus how many of them are actually subscribed to it. There are so many people listening right
now that may even think that they are subscribed and are unaware that the algorithm is just kind of
randomly feeding it to them because they've showed interest in it before. If you'd like to support the
show, it's one of the simplest and easiest ways that you can do so by hitting that little subscribe
button, and it lets the algorithm know that you are interested, you're along for the ride, and If you'll do
that, I promise I'm going to do the best I can to continue to bring the most interesting stories I can
from Paris, both from my friends and beyond, to keep that link alive for those of you that love the city,
may want to live here one day, or may already live here. Thanks for watching. Welcome back to
Garage Monologues, the season of transitions. But today is something very different and very special.
This is our first released bonus episode, not our first recorded one, but our first release publicly,
because normally to get these, you would have to be a patron.
[01:02:16.22] - Speaker 2
and then you get it one season early. The rest of the bonus episodes will come out publicly later, so
you don't feel like you're totally missing out, just in case you aren't a patron already. We are doing this
one in a more timely fashion because today's subject matter is something that is a little bit more time-
sensitive. We're probably going to reference some places that we cannot guarantee will still be
around by the time it would drop in 6 months, because we are talking about the coffee scene in Paris,
which is a very, very rapidly shifting coffee scene. I'm sitting here with Rod from CommeU, an app that
will help you find good coffee in Paris and a number of other good cities, and he's bringing the data
today. He's been doing a lot of research over the last few years into the coffee scene, both in Paris
and beyond. So we're going to have a very informed conversation about where to get coffee in Paris
for coffee lovers, very specifically for the serious coffee lovers.
[01:03:10.10] - Speaker 1
Serious coffee lovers.
[01:03:11.06] - Speaker 2
If you're into coffee, this is the episode for you. It's going to inform a video that I'm going to make over
on my YouTube channel about ranking the arrondissements, the 20 arrondissements of Paris for
serious coffee lovers. So I'm going to be taking notes for that. It's going to be a collaboration between
the two of us. And we are filming today in the Maison du Barista, who welcomed us, which is lovely,
and we very much appreciate that, here in the 10th arrondissement. We're going to be talking about
the arrondissements here soon enough. This is a wonderful location, though, where you can come if
you're looking for specialty coffee supplies, They have the boutique if you want an experience where
you can see it made in front of you and get a little bit of an education at the same time with some very
specialty coffee, possibly espresso, possibly filter, possibly ibrik.
[01:03:53.06] - Speaker 1
Ibrik.
[01:03:53.17] - Speaker 2
Ibrik. I don't know how we say that in English, to be honest, but it's a— there's a whole different variety
of ways that you can have your coffee made here. Walk away well caffeinated, better educated, and
have a nice chat with them. They're— they've supplied us with coffee this entire time, and I am Very
well caffeinated as a result. And we are, of course, sitting here to talk with Rod from Kommu, which is
an app to help you find specialty coffee specifically in multiple places, but especially in Paris. Rod,
what is— can you explain a little bit about Kommu, a little bit about what you do at Kommu, and how
the research that you've carried out is going to inform the conversation we're about to have?
[01:04:31.08] - Speaker 1
Sure. Thanks. Thanks for having me.
[01:04:33.14] - Speaker 2
Absolutely.
[01:04:34.03] - Speaker 1
Here today. So Commu, uh, Commu is a community. It's a coffee community. Yeah, but we also tell
stories. So we have a very young YouTube channel. Please subscribe.
[01:04:43.22] - Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely.
[01:04:44.21] - Speaker 1
Uh, so we tell stories, we build some tech to help people find, uh, uh, specialty coffee.
[01:04:51.15] - Speaker 2
Yep.
[01:04:52.06] - Speaker 1
And we also do events. And but at the end of the day, I would say it's really about putting in the
spotlight coffee people and coffee places.
[01:05:00.20] - Speaker 2
And you do a great job of that. And I think there's some interesting— there are a lot of interesting
elements within Komio itself. You can search by roaster, you can search by type of coffee, you can
find all kinds of great stuff. So if you're coming to Paris, it's a free app. I have a couple of lists on there
that you can find as well, but be sure to check out Komio before you come to Paris just to see what
might be around the corner from where you are already.
[01:05:20.18] - Speaker 1
But it's not just— it's a way to discover, but also share and remember, because you can share your
coffee experience with other community members. So it's not just about finding, it's also about
sharing, remembering.
[01:05:34.23] - Speaker 2
And learning as we go.
[01:05:35.16] - Speaker 1
And learning.
[01:05:36.10] - Speaker 2
What is the source of the data that you— like, where did you get the data that we're going to be
referencing today?
[01:05:41.21] - Speaker 1
A lot of work, hard work, and also thanks to our community members.
[01:05:46.18] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:05:47.03] - Speaker 1
So like in Paris, where we have a very strong foot, yeah, uh, we track all openings. And also, you know,
I'm— this is my, uh, hometown.
[01:05:57.01] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:05:57.07] - Speaker 1
So we know, uh, Paris coffee scene from, you know, its inception, 2010, 2012.
[01:06:04.02] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:06:04.09] - Speaker 1
So basically we use all the data from our community and from our own knowledge. And, you know, so
we know we have kind of a— I mean, I would not say exhaustive, but pretty representative of the Paris
coffee scene.
[01:06:20.21] - Speaker 2
I think it's as close to exhaustive as it gets.
[01:06:22.16] - Speaker 1
Close. I think it's close.
[01:06:23.17] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:06:24.00] - Speaker 1
Can you guess over the past 18 months, how many coffee shops do you think more or less opened
just in Paris?
[01:06:32.04] - Speaker 2
18 months? I, I mean, this may be an absurd number, but I have the number 200 in my head.
[01:06:38.07] - Speaker 1
Did you read my notes?
[01:06:39.08] - Speaker 2
No. Is that about right?
[01:06:40.12] - Speaker 1
You nailed it.
[01:06:41.04] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay. Okay.
[01:06:42.05] - Speaker 1
So that's, that's like, depending, it's like around 3 coffee shops every week.
[01:06:47.16] - Speaker 2
That's insane. That is actually, that is insane. That's But it explains, because I've noticed it. We've all
noticed it. There's a new coffee shop on every corner every 5 minutes.
[01:06:57.06] - Speaker 1
Yeah, that's true.
[01:06:58.13] - Speaker 2
And it's just like that question of how could these even— are they good? I can't say no. We're going to
talk about that. I think the thing is that I've made a career now, kind of— coffee is a part of my career,
right? From exploring coffee when I first got here in 20— I mean, I lived here in 2012, but I wasn't really
into coffee yet. And when I moved back in 2017, I was. And back then, there was, you know, 15 places
basically. And not really, there's probably more like 20 or 30, but really, I found them all because I was
looking for a place to write, and I loved specialty coffee at that point. So, it was easy to know the
whole coffee scene. Now, it's impossible.
[01:07:37.12] - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, I think there's over 600 coffee shops.
[01:07:40.00] - Speaker 2
That's crazy. Okay, I was actually curious about, like, how many there were.
[01:07:42.21] - Speaker 1
And I'm not even talking about, you know, national or international coffee chains.
[01:07:47.21] - Speaker 2
Okay, so no Starbucks in that list?
[01:07:49.15] - Speaker 1
No.
[01:07:49.22] - Speaker 2
This is just newly opened specialty coffee shops.
[01:07:52.22] - Speaker 1
If you add the coffee chains, we actually checked that.
[01:07:55.04] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:07:55.10] - Speaker 1
And we're gonna talk about that. So there is now less than 60 Starbucks in Paris.
[01:08:01.14] - Speaker 2
There are 60 Starbucks in Paris?
[01:08:03.01] - Speaker 1
There used to be way more than that.
[01:08:03.23] - Speaker 2
I was gonna say, because that does seem— I don't know if that seems low or high to me, to be honest,
now that I think about it.
[01:08:09.23] - Speaker 1
If you think about arrondissements, it's only 3 per arrondissement.
[01:08:13.01] - Speaker 2
That's not that many.
[01:08:13.19] - Speaker 1
I don't think that many. District 1 is the one with the most. I mean, okay, but that's— They are in
touristy areas. So makes sense.
[01:08:20.21] - Speaker 2
Okay, that does make, that does make sense. Yeah, I'm imagining them on Rue de Rivoli.
[01:08:23.23] - Speaker 1
And, uh, yes, and they are also, you know, I mean, one of the things is like, uh, credit to, uh, Nicolas
from KB Coffee Roasters. Yesterday he talked to me about mainstream specialty coffee shop, right?
So I think there is also that. So there's new players like, yeah, you know, who are the examples of
mainstream? Cuvée Noire, maybe Noir, I would say. Yeah, so those kind of You know, which some
people like them. I mean, I used to say the best coffee is the one you like.
[01:08:52.14] - Speaker 2
Yes.
[01:08:53.01] - Speaker 1
So we're going to talk about some very—
[01:08:54.10] - Speaker 2
You used to say that. You don't say that anymore.
[01:08:56.16] - Speaker 1
No, no. I mean, I still, I still believe in that. But yeah, I mean, it's my opinion.
[01:09:02.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:09:02.13] - Speaker 1
So some people really like them and some people don't like them because they are mainstream. But
anyway, so what we did, it's slightly different. We kind of look at that. We look at independent coffee
shop, whether they are roasters or not, because if you're not a roaster, it's even harder to make
money. So we look at those kind of things. And what we kind of look at is the intention. That's where I
would say we're going to talk about the subjective opinions, you know, the one you like, place they
have in your heart.
[01:09:36.00] - Speaker 2
Of course.
[01:09:36.16] - Speaker 1
But when we started, we did not look at that. So I'm not going to talk first to you about extraction type
of coffee. No, it's just like the intention. So to explain to you how we did that, I'm going to use— I'm
going to— I'm going to use a movie analogy.
[01:09:52.07] - Speaker 2
Okay. Yeah.
[01:09:52.20] - Speaker 1
So basically we look at all those places that opened over the past 2 years, plus, you know, the OG
ones, because some of them, maybe they changed, maybe the intention is not—
[01:10:04.09] - Speaker 2
Some of them have changed a lot.
[01:10:05.10] - Speaker 1
Which is why I think, like you said, this is kind of sensitive. It's going to— it's going to change in 6
months. I don't know. So basically, it's like, it's like a movie. So basically, for us, every coffee shop has
a story to tell.
[01:10:19.03] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:10:19.10] - Speaker 1
When it comes to coffee. And so we look at the place of coffee, its role in the story of those coffee
shops.
[01:10:27.07] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:10:27.21] - Speaker 1
So just like in a movie, maybe coffee there is the protagonist.
[01:10:34.12] - Speaker 2
Yes.
[01:10:35.05] - Speaker 1
So it's the experience. It's the reason you will go to this place. Spider-Man in Spider-Man.
[01:10:44.02] - Speaker 2
Perfect. Okay. Yeah. Spider-Man's the hero. Yeah.
[01:10:46.19] - Speaker 1
Or coffee could be a supporting character. Right. Like MJ, Ned.
[01:10:52.17] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:10:53.09] - Speaker 1
Full disclosure, I have not seen the latest Spider-Man, so I don't know about that.
[01:10:57.22] - Speaker 2
But you remember the main— it makes sense. It makes sense. Yeah. Okay.
[01:11:01.00] - Speaker 1
So MJ, Ned. So supporting character. So coffee there has an important role, but it's not the main one.
So maybe along with, I don't know, food or granola, pastries, something else.
[01:11:13.00] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:11:13.08] - Speaker 1
So, but those places are really important, by the way, because sometimes they are the key entry.
[01:11:17.12] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:11:17.22] - Speaker 1
To, you know, specialty coffee.
[01:11:19.22] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:11:20.04] - Speaker 1
You become like serious coffee lovers. Then you have what I would say cameo Easter eggs.
[01:11:28.04] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:11:28.06] - Speaker 1
I'm going to still use the Spider-Man reference because before he passed away, Stan Lee.
[01:11:33.15] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:11:34.09] - Speaker 1
Used to make brief appearances in all Spider-Man movies. Yeah. So it's there, but, you know, kind of
briefly. Maybe you will go to this coffee shop 5 times, you won't really notice specialty coffees there.
[01:11:47.10] - Speaker 2
Right.
[01:11:47.20] - Speaker 1
Okay. And last but unfortunately not least, uh, extra.
[01:11:52.18] - Speaker 2
Yes.
[01:11:53.04] - Speaker 1
So many places now, coffee is barely there.
[01:11:57.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:11:57.14] - Speaker 1
So they call— I mean, specialty coffee. So it's coffee shop, but I mean, they would plaster specialty
coffee on their windowpane, but when you go there, it's just coffee. So again, to explain the intention,
for me it's like if you visit a place and if it's— I'm gonna— we're gonna try to see how easy or hard it is
to know where this coffee is coming from.
[01:12:25.02] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:12:25.22] - Speaker 1
Who made it and how was it made? So you asked me about mainstream, uh, specialty coffee shop. I
don't know if today, you know, some places—
[01:12:36.23] - Speaker 2
I mean, I'd love to hear about this. Can you define— yeah, can you define that? What does it mean to
be a mainstream specialty coffee shop?
[01:12:43.08] - Speaker 1
For me, basically, those places, it's mainstream in a way that they just replace commodity coffee with
specialty coffee that they use. But if you go there and you start to ask where it's coming from, how
was it made, who made it, they just don't know.
[01:12:59.08] - Speaker 2
Okay.
[01:12:59.15] - Speaker 1
I can tell you, I visited one yesterday.
[01:13:02.08] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:13:03.04] - Speaker 1
The barista was really nice, but I could see when I asked him, where your coffee is coming from.
[01:13:08.13] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:13:09.16] - Speaker 1
What I even— I didn't ask him. I say, what's this coffee? And he looked at me like, And he needed to
check. And then he said, it's a blend, Colombia, Brazil, which is good. Gave me the answer.
[01:13:21.09] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:13:21.17] - Speaker 1
And then I said, who roasted it? He didn't know. He went to check with someone and then someone
said, we roasted. And then someone said, no, we have a roaster. We have a roaster. Typically. And it
means people who go there, maybe they don't go there for coffee, which is fine. I mean, I don't think I
mean, specialty coffee is already mainstream, but it's not for everyone anyway. And I don't think there
is enough specialty coffee for everyone. So the goal is not to replace commodity coffee, right? But it's
more about how it became part of what we call trend food.
[01:13:54.14] - Speaker 2
Sure. Yeah.
[01:13:55.07] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:13:55.17] - Speaker 2
So, so it's mainstream because it's— it has become a trend in and of itself to be able to say, oh, we
have specialty coffee. Then that means like they can elevate the prices, they can elevate the
experience for a consumer that maybe likes to know that they're having it but doesn't really— they're
not that interested in it.
[01:14:11.23] - Speaker 1
Yeah, there's also another way of saying it. Coffee shop does not mean specialty coffee.
[01:14:17.11] - Speaker 2
Yes. Yeah, yeah.
[01:14:18.08] - Speaker 1
Anymore.
[01:14:18.23] - Speaker 2
No.
[01:14:19.21] - Speaker 1
So that's the thing.
[01:14:20.17] - Speaker 2
So now it's kind of like how in Paris there, about a decade ago, you saw the word tacos appear on
every other fast food restaurant and you thought Mexican food had made it to Paris.
[01:14:31.11] - Speaker 1
French tacos.
[01:14:32.08] - Speaker 2
Not— they were just kebabs. Yeah. So it makes it harder then if you're searching, if you're looking to
find good coffee. And you have a plethora of options, 600 specialty coffee shops, and then you have
all the Starbucks and you have all the just the regular cafes. How do people end up— I guess it's what
we're here to talk about is like, how do you filter through the noise and know like, okay, how do you
know what is a good signal of truly specialty coffee?
[01:15:03.11] - Speaker 1
I love the question. Interesting question because I mean, I'm going to share the result, but we did not
expect that. So it used to be, you mentioned, you say you arrived in Paris 2012?
[01:15:15.15] - Speaker 2
Originally, yeah.
[01:15:16.09] - Speaker 1
Yeah. And then you came back?
[01:15:17.15] - Speaker 2
2017. Yeah.
[01:15:18.22] - Speaker 1
So honestly, even before COVID good signal would be you pass by a coffee shop, you would just look
at the coffee machine.
[01:15:28.16] - Speaker 2
Yes.
[01:15:28.22] - Speaker 1
So maybe, you know, a Marzocco.
[01:15:31.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Do they have a Chemex in the background somewhere? Yeah.
[01:15:33.20] - Speaker 1
Maybe also you would look at just the Grinder, yeah, and you would know. Unfortunately, the
mainstream scene, yeah, just took you know ownership of those codes, so those are not good signal
anymore.
[01:15:51.02] - Speaker 2
No.
[01:15:51.18] - Speaker 1
So now it's very it's small detail and intention. Like one we so we we run the data.
[01:15:59.11] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:15:59.17] - Speaker 1
So for instance, we notice that the more a place shout about specialty coffee even before you get in.
So on their window, on their menu, the less likely they know. And a funny one, which is because when
we run the data, this is the one that the highest correlation with good place and, you know, what in
terms of signal. Yeah, it's actually whether or not they serve Hand brew.
[01:16:30.04] - Speaker 2
Yeah, 100%.
[01:16:31.18] - Speaker 1
Because it's hard.
[01:16:32.09] - Speaker 2
100%.
[01:16:32.19] - Speaker 1
Because it takes time.
[01:16:33.18] - Speaker 2
Yep.
[01:16:34.00] - Speaker 1
Because you need to know— You—
[01:16:35.18] - Speaker 2
that's how I always— for me, the 2 things I used to always do before, before even deciding whether I'd
stop at a place was I would look and see, do they have like a V60 sitting somewhere? And I would ask
them, who's your roaster? And if they didn't know who their roaster was—
[01:16:50.01] - Speaker 1
Exactly.
[01:16:50.18] - Speaker 2
I was out.
[01:16:50.23] - Speaker 1
I mean, that one, yeah.
[01:16:51.21] - Speaker 2
Just done. And, and now, to your point, that's not necessarily enough anymore. Because it could just
be now they put like their, I won't name names, but there are places that use the accoutrement, right?
They have a V60, they have a Chemex, they have an AeroPress, and they just use it as decoration.
[01:17:06.03] - Speaker 1
Absolutely.
[01:17:06.13] - Speaker 2
And they never touch it. So you can't trust that if you see it, it's even going to be used anymore. It used
to be they had no idea what they were, so they wouldn't. And now it's like, no, this is just how we
decorate a place.
[01:17:15.18] - Speaker 1
Yeah, it's part of the aesthetic. So you would see some like a Chemex is, you know, really nice.
[01:17:20.19] - Speaker 2
Yeah, there's one on the wall behind you. Yeah.
[01:17:22.06] - Speaker 1
Yeah. And But it doesn't mean that— I mean, it's hard to do anyway.
[01:17:25.20] - Speaker 2
They make beautiful vases. Yeah.
[01:17:27.07] - Speaker 1
Yeah. But you know, some people don't even know. And if they say, can I have a coffee in that? Like,
what? No, we don't use that.
[01:17:32.23] - Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly.
[01:17:33.07] - Speaker 1
So it's a very good point.
[01:17:34.08] - Speaker 2
Exactly. Yeah.
[01:17:34.21] - Speaker 1
And I said hand brew, but I would say also we should give credit to batch brew.
[01:17:38.23] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:17:39.07] - Speaker 1
Because even, you know—
[01:17:40.14] - Speaker 2
That's a sign. I think I would take it as a sign.
[01:17:42.17] - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
[01:17:42.23] - Speaker 2
With my evolution of coffee, when I started, I started drinking Starbucks. I think that's the thing that
like, we're not gonna— we're not here to promote the OG.
[01:17:50.23] - Speaker 1
Me too.
[01:17:50.23] - Speaker 2
But I think it is this thing of like Starbucks. We talked about this a little bit yesterday. Starbucks has
this important role in coffee where they elevated it into an experience out of just being a commodity,
and they brought it to the rest of the world in a way that paved the way for so much of what we have
now, right? Second wave coffee. And now that we are in the third or arguably the fourth wave of
coffee, none of us are necessarily looking to go to a Starbucks, but that is where I started. Actually, I
started drinking Starbucks on a hospital ship in West Africa, of all places. So, it wasn't even made by a
proper Starbucks barista, It was made by random volunteers who had no idea what they were doing,
and just full of sugar and flavors and everything else, because I wasn't really interested in— I didn't like
the taste of coffee yet. And then progressively, as I whittled away the sugar in particular, and then I
was like, oh, maybe I could do without the milk. And I met people that were really into specialty coffee,
especially here in Paris, that were like, hey, why don't you just sit and taste these 3 and tell me what
you're experiencing?
[01:18:50.03] - Speaker 2
and taught me to really appreciate what I was having and also served me coffee that wasn't burnt at
some point in the process. I got to a place where I just— I— all I really want is to taste the coffee when
I'm having coffee. So if I have espresso, I will have a straight espresso, but what I'm looking for
generally is a longer drink that's going to last me a while. And if I'm on the go, I don't know that I want
to wait for a V60, and I'm not going to appreciate the labor that went into it. So batch brew is the
solution for that because it's still going to be good, especially if they know what they're doing. The
beans are good, the machine is good, everything's clean, the water is nice. If it's properly done, I'm
happy. And so that, for me, is always also that question, like, do you do batch brew?
[01:19:27.03] - Speaker 1
And you know, it's not a French thing.
[01:19:29.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah, no, the French don't drink it, right? Yeah, it's changing, but yeah.
[01:19:32.12] - Speaker 1
It's changing now. Changing.
[01:19:33.21] - Speaker 2
But the French are about— un café is an espresso.
[01:19:36.06] - Speaker 1
It used to be jus de chaussette, like the way Americans like coffee.
[01:19:39.18] - Speaker 2
Exactly. Yeah, jus de chaussette. I have not heard that in a while. No, it's fine.
[01:19:42.12] - Speaker 1
One for you.
[01:19:42.20] - Speaker 2
Yeah, they used to— for those who don't speak French, jus de chaussette is sock juice. So that
because they filtered it through a sock was the joke. And the French looked very much down on
American coffee.
[01:19:52.15] - Speaker 1
It's not— it's no longer the case.
[01:19:54.10] - Speaker 2
No, no, no, it's not in the specialty scene.
[01:19:56.00] - Speaker 1
If I try to sum it up, so just like you said, uh, do they know about the roaster? Do they know where the
coffee is coming from? If it's not easy, if you can't access the information, then it's just coffee.
[01:20:07.22] - Speaker 2
Yeah, which is interesting because when you go to like London, there are some mainstream— what I
would describe as mainstream coffee shops. Part of their process is to always give you a card that
has the coffee you're drinking on it when they serve it. There's no presumption that you do care.
There's nothing, but it's here in case you want it. And so to have that card there every time, eventually
you're like, all right, like, I liked that coffee. What is this? And then you start to notice the patterns and
you're like, oh, I guess I really like Colombian coffee when I'm looking for something a little bit rounder
and a little bit like— And so you start to kind of associate these things. And I think that learning by
association over time is really valuable. Do you think that that kind of thing will start happening more
in Paris, or are the French not into that yet?
[01:20:50.17] - Speaker 1
I mean, in my humble opinion, the French like the, you know, there is the wine culture.
[01:20:58.00] - Speaker 2
Of course.
[01:20:58.11] - Speaker 1
So I think it has to.
[01:21:01.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:21:01.13] - Speaker 1
But maybe French are still in a, you know, it has to be a human connection, blah blah blah. So, uh, I'm
not going to use paper or I'm not going to use a Commute, an application, something like that. But like
you said, sometimes maybe the baristas are too busy or maybe you don't want to talk with the barista.
[01:21:21.07] - Speaker 2
Or maybe it just goes in one ear and out the other.
[01:21:23.05] - Speaker 1
Exactly. So for me, I mean, it's just my opinion, but my background is behavioral science. So I know a
few things or two about how the brain works and how people behave. I was saying that to someone
last week. I would say specialty coffee has a curiosity problem.
[01:21:40.13] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:21:40.23] - Speaker 1
So those— any signal you mentioned, coffee cards or other things. So if someone at some point
sipping a coffee want to know more, yeah, they have, you know, multiple ways to access the
information.
[01:21:55.21] - Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I think it's— it is a very big part of French culture. The person— the personal
connection matters so much, right? Which is why we all I always tell people, say bonjour right away.
And it's not the ritual. I was— I wrote this.
[01:22:09.01] - Speaker 1
It's very good.
[01:22:09.23] - Speaker 2
And it is, and it is about sharing a moment with somebody, you know. It's mutual respect in that we're
here, I see you, okay, now what do you want?
[01:22:16.14] - Speaker 1
If you want people to value specialty coffee, especially when it's harder with all those trends and the
thing we mentioned, you know, yeah, it's harder to separate the wheat from the chaff. So you have to
create routines, habits that will value specialty coffee.
[01:22:34.01] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:22:34.10] - Speaker 1
And by definition, create routines and habits takes time.
[01:22:40.03] - Speaker 2
Yes.
[01:22:40.10] - Speaker 1
So it's not gonna happen in one day.
[01:22:42.03] - Speaker 2
But I think it— I think for me it was— so I had a— I had an office in the Marais before COVID and it was
with a perfume, a bespoke perfume company, that they leased me one of their, uh, office spaces. And
I was making my Chemex, you know, in the morning. And I had a friend who came in and she set us
up. She was a barista. And so we just had a fun time kind of building out this coffee station. And I
remember, you know, they, they were never interested in having coffee, the coffee that we were
making. They're like, oh, we already— we have our, our Cafe Hisha or whatever. They were just like,
we're fine. And, uh, not, not to name drop, but they, um, they just weren't that interested until one day I
got a couple of them and I was like, no, but this is like wine or like chocolate. It's not just coffee. Like,
this is an Ethiopian, that's a natural. It's like, let me— I don't know a ton, but let me walk you through
what I do know, and why don't we do a little comparison?
[01:23:31.20] - Speaker 2
And just by sitting down and linking it to like Basically, like, what you're saying by saying it's just
coffee is like you're looking at that burgundy and being like, it's just wine. And so, they're like, okay,
we'll give it a try. And you could see the lights switch on when they stopped, and they took their time,
and they tasted it, and they're like, oh, there's a whole universe here that we didn't know anything
about. So, they didn't immediately become coffee lovers, but over the course of the time that I had
that office, we would have little coffee days together, and you could see it growing with time, and the
interest was there, and the curiosity grew. And so, maybe a lot of it of it is just evangelism more than
anything. As far as I'm, you know, it's not just education, it's somebody being like, hey, hey, I have
something I love and I would like to find a way to bring that to you.
[01:24:17.12] - Speaker 1
Some people say that, uh, being a specialty coffee lover is being kind of part of a cult.
[01:24:22.18] - Speaker 2
It is, yeah, in many ways. Yeah, this is an interesting difference too, and this is why I think this is a
great conversation and why it's going to be really fun to kind of piece together our tier list of the
arrondissement of Paris for serious coffee lovers is because a lot of places that are in my guide, if
you tap coffee, I was just going through today just to do a little refresh and be like, hey, what is in
here? And we're like, there's some fun places that I'm like, oh, I haven't been there in a while. I really
wanna go back. But there are places in there that are listed for coffee that I would not send you if
that's what you're looking for. But they do have good coffee, but it's also, it's more, it's a restaurant.
Like there's a Vietnamese restaurant that's in there. And if you want a Vietnamese coffee, they do
make a good one.
[01:25:01.08] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:25:01.13] - Speaker 2
And it's really tasty, but it's a tag that's added into a restaurant. It's not specific, specific just for
coffee. And that's what Komu is doing, right? Is like specifically just for coffee. You're not going to
send somebody to— there's not going to be a place that's in there because their lunch special is really
good, you know, and they serve coffee. It's like the coffee is what matters.
[01:25:20.23] - Speaker 1
But, but with that being said, yeah, uh, on Komu, we will also list bakeries, restaurants, even hotels.
[01:25:31.00] - Speaker 2
If they take it seriously.
[01:25:31.19] - Speaker 1
Yeah, if they take it seriously. But they don't have to go through the same typology I mentioned to you
because it's not core of their business. But if it's easy to know the roaster, the coffee, then it's good.
And again, you mentioned a restaurant. They have other stuff to focus on. But if As part of, you know,
how much they care about the food they serve, the bread they serve, the wine they serve. So if they
care about the coffee, it's worth being on Commu.
[01:26:02.18] - Speaker 2
Is that a complication? Like if you go to a place, we'll name a place that's no longer, sadly, that just
closed recently, but I'm thinking of them, Café Méricourt, right? Which was very much like brunch,
lunch. It was, in my mind, it was always a coffee shop. But in reality, I think as an outsider, when you
step in, it's more of a restaurant. How do you clearly delineate between them for people to have the
right expectations walking in?
[01:26:27.07] - Speaker 1
Very interesting question.
[01:26:28.12] - Speaker 2
Again, I'm thinking about this a lot lately, actually.
[01:26:30.18] - Speaker 1
And again, it's just my opinion. I would say one, you're right, by the way, it's hard sometimes to know,
should we treat that as a restaurant or as a coffee shop? And then you will look at Google, they would
say we are a coffee shop, but then they're more like, you feel like they are more like a restaurant and
vice versa. Yeah. So one kind of, again, we try at that, try to be as objective as possible. Sure. Came up
with what kind of things we could, uh, just how to distinguish them. And I would say if when you arrive
to that place, yeah, they will say you have to sit at the table to order, then for me it's not a coffee shop.
There are a few exceptions.
[01:27:11.03] - Speaker 2
Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:27:12.07] - Speaker 1
It's not like, uh, I'm not very into binary stuff and things like that. Yeah.
[01:27:17.12] - Speaker 2
Well, none of this is the—
[01:27:18.06] - Speaker 1
It's not 1 or 0.
[01:27:19.11] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:27:20.02] - Speaker 1
Like, I'm gonna mention one because I can think about that. Back in Black.
[01:27:25.04] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:27:25.20] - Speaker 1
So you could argue compared to KB Pigalle, is that one more a restaurant or a coffee shop? Because
you can sit. Yeah.
[01:27:34.14] - Speaker 2
And at KB, you go to the counter and then you sit. Back in Black, you sit and then someone comes and
takes your order. Yeah. So what is it? I think that's, and this is, Capturing this as almost a process of
understanding— because I don't know how many people really care, but it is this element for me of
how do I really clearly set your expectations going into this place? You could become incredibly
pedantic at it, right? You get down to details nobody really cares about just in hopes that you don't
miss anything. So capturing the spirit of it matters. And I think if you do have a clear definition of it, If
you sit down, then we're gonna categorize this as a restaurant. If you sit down first and they're serving
food, I guess, 'cause I can imagine there's a coffee shop where all they do is coffee and they make
you sit down first and then they come and take your order, right?
[01:28:24.20] - Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm talking about Paris.
[01:28:26.20] - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:28:28.15] - Speaker 1
Like Japan is very different, for instance, you know?
[01:28:33.08] - Speaker 2
But the French will copy that at some point. Like somebody's gonna make that happen, you know?
Okay, so let's get into the arrondissements of Paris. There are 20 for anybody watching this who
doesn't know.
[01:28:44.05] - Speaker 1
Paris.
[01:28:44.17] - Speaker 2
That's a snail. I was talking to a guy from Nantes yesterday who didn't know the arrondissements at
all. I was like, okay, maybe you have to be in or from Paris to really understand this. The
arrondissements start with 1 in the middle and they spiral outwards like a snail to 20. They get larger
as they go. Uh, they are municipal districts. That's what arrondissement means. I call them
arrondissements because I can't bring myself to call them districts. It feels really weird. We were
talking about that bit that our French, our French guest calls them districts. So when he's speaking
English, so I don't know, maybe I'm the one that's wrong. But we're going to be judging them today.
I've judged them in many ways over the years, and I know them very well. Uh, I would say at this point
in my life in Paris, I've explored them pretty extensively, although there are some streets I've
discovered recently that I've never been down before, so there's probably more out there. And it's
always changing. Brad has the data on how it's changing. He's been tracking the 200 places that have
opened in the last 18 months.
[01:29:40.13] - Speaker 2
I have given up on going to all the new places. I don't care anymore. To go to all the new places. I'll go
to the ones that my friends recommend now. I'm just like, I'm done. I think what I realized about this
too, this is just a personal aside, because I love exploring this city in particular. I love exploring any
city I'm in, but I love exploring Paris. I love this city so much. Actually, I'm going to get emotional. I'm
going to stop talking about it. So the one of the things that started to get taken from me with that, I
think, was this feeling of having to keep up with the numbers, with the places that are opening, with all
of everything. And it started to rob me of the joy because what I really enjoy is just walking down the
street, oh, that looks nice, that's new, check it out. Yes, no, go in. And then being surprised to find
something like Huddle, this coffee shop that's not that old that did their own cold brew in a way that I
had never had before. They did like a double or triple filtration that made it very clear, and they had
their whole explanation, but it really stood out.
[01:30:33.19] - Speaker 2
And I was like, wow, this is nice. Lovely couple running it, just like A cool vibe, something different,
and it had their spirit in it. Like, you could tell these are people that love what they're doing. They put
this together, and it's not— it isn't mainstream. It's just them.
[01:30:49.04] - Speaker 1
No, it's definitely a good place.
[01:30:51.18] - Speaker 2
And I— so I guess for me, all that to say that I— man, that's what I love about it. So that recaptures for
me what I've been missing. So I'm trying to get away from gathering all the data. I'm going to let you
do that, and I'm just going to wander and occasionally take your recommendation. Before we get into
the arrondissement, uh, how do you keep the joy of coffee alive for you now that you've transitioned
from being a coffee lover as a hobby to being a coffee lover professionally?
[01:31:22.19] - Speaker 1
I would say it's more and more about the experience itself.
[01:31:25.15] - Speaker 2
Okay.
[01:31:25.23] - Speaker 1
Not just the coffee.
[01:31:28.19] - Speaker 2
Yeah, tell me more about that. What experience? Like the experience in the coffee shop or the
experience of seeing the whole coffee world.
[01:31:35.19] - Speaker 1
Yeah, and meeting, uh, meeting people. You just mentioned, uh, Huddle. Yeah, so you said that it is run
by a couple and yeah, you said they are passionate about what they do. So that's what I like. Yeah, I
think people are just passionate about what they do, whether it's like coffee shop, coffee roasters. I
like to go, you know, to a coffee festival, so things like that. So it's more, you know, about people
having the same passion and, uh, which is what this whole community is about.
[01:32:00.08] - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. No, me too. I think that's, that's what's changed I think the connection, I talk
about this when it comes to learning French as well, since we're talking to people who might be
interested in, probably some French listeners here right now too, but the human connection that
becomes available to you when you learn the language. There are a lot of people that come here and
say things like the French are rude or they're cold or whatever. And it's like, well, Parisians for one, just
like New Yorkers, do you expect New Yorkers to have time for you? No, they're busy. Like, no. Second,
if you don't have the ability to communicate with them in their language, even if they speak English,
there's always gonna be something kind of missing there. And so having the ability to speak a little bit
of French, to communicate, to connect, will always make a huge difference. And I think that the same
is true of something like coffee. You don't have to be intimidated to the point that you're like, I don't
know what the heck washed or anaerobic means. That's fine. Just sharing the experience of what you
can talk about makes all the difference.
[01:32:55.18] - Speaker 2
And then that, that human connection with people that are also really interested or passionate about it
I don't know, just leaning in makes a difference.
[01:33:02.13] - Speaker 1
And also, you know, to, uh, when you open a coffee shop, it's not just about the coffee, the product.
[01:33:09.01] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:33:09.20] - Speaker 1
The first thing you do is like you are in the hospitality business. Absolutely.
[01:33:13.23] - Speaker 2
Yeah. I wish, actually, I wish more coffee shop owners remembered that. But yes, you're in the
hospitality, 100%.
[01:33:20.00] - Speaker 1
Any coffee shop in mind?
[01:33:20.23] - Speaker 2
Yeah, I'm not saying name. We're not dropping. So that's the other thing before. So let's drive into that.
[01:33:25.00] - Speaker 1
We're gonna say some names.
[01:33:25.23] - Speaker 2
Let's say we, I, we've said names, but we're not gonna shit on anybody.
[01:33:29.14] - Speaker 1
No, no, no.
[01:33:30.03] - Speaker 2
So having— owning a business is hard enough. Owning one in France is even harder. And I think
running a coffee shop is just— the margins are thin. So we're not here to ruin anybody's day, but we
are here to guide you towards the people that we think will, uh, make your day better. Let's get into the
arrondissements. Should we do this as a countdown? Should we work our way through?
[01:33:50.16] - Speaker 1
Should we— Let's do District 1. Okay, let's start with District 1.
[01:33:56.14] - Speaker 2
I like how you say arrondissement.
[01:33:56.23] - Speaker 1
Le premier.
[01:33:57.04] - Speaker 2
Premier arrondissement. Let's take a quick break brought to you by our sponsors. Sitting here
chatting about changes and new adventures makes me reflect on my own adventure here in Paris and
some of my business decisions, many of which have been good, many have been questionable, but
one of the best that I ever made was spinning off all of my Paris recommendations and videos about
how to do Paris into its own separate brand, Paris in My Pocket. When people came to my vlog for
Paris advice and then would find a story about my life here, or maybe even me just sitting there being
like, I'm sad. It didn't really make a whole lot of sense. And so splitting those 2 into separate things
has been one of the best choices I've ever made. If you happen to be coming to Paris for your first
time, or maybe you're returning, my base guide is actually loaded with tons of articles on how to get
around, where to go, how to do the city if you happen to have mobility issues. That one's free on our
website at parisinmypocket.com, actually. So feel free to grab that from the blog.
[01:34:50.12] - Speaker 2
And in that base guide comes what you might want regardless of how many times you've been to
Paris, and that is over 500 of my personal recommendations to the city of Paris when it comes to
eating, drinking, and having a good time. These are all places that I would go back to personally for
one reason or another, and I try to be as direct and honest as I can. And since it's behind a paywall,
you know I can be as honest as I want to be. And we're culling it regularly. We regularly check in and
see which of these places deserve to be there and which ones we should cut. And if you want to go
even deeper, we have our Guide Plus, which adds a bunch of premade itineraries so that you can pack
in a day in the Marais, a day in Montmartre, or perhaps a book lover's day walking through Paris
between the Right and Left Bank. Go to parisinmypocket.com right now. Grab my guide. Use the code
GARAGEMONOLOGUES at checkout for 10% off. And thank you so much for listening to my podcast.
With that, let's get back to the conversation.
[01:35:41.14] - Speaker 1
So, you know, so maybe I won't go into detail for all arrondissements. We can talk about it, but just
because, because we have to start somewhere.
[01:35:48.20] - Speaker 2
So this is where the Louver is, for those who don't know. The interesting thing about the 1st is that it
has Châtelet-Les Halles, and that is a major metro station that serves the RER. And so as a result, it's
actually not so touristy from foreigners as it is people from the banlieue. There are a lot of Parisians
that don't live in central Paris that think of this area as Paris because it's where they get off their train
to do their shopping. So it's a very interesting mix of— obviously, if you're at the Louver, down by the
river in the Tuileries, there's a lot of stuff to do as a foreign tourist. But there are a lot of French people
walking around as well, doing their shopping and, you know, going to Five Guys. There are a lot of
American chains down there as well.
[01:36:30.09] - Speaker 1
Premier arrondissement is the one with the biggest number of coffee chains.
[01:36:34.14] - Speaker 2
And it also has one of the best coffee shops in it, right?
[01:36:36.21] - Speaker 1
Exactly. So that one is like a very interesting one.
[01:36:39.12] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:36:39.20] - Speaker 1
Because I'm just looking at the data. There's 9 Starbucks, which is the highest number.
[01:36:44.19] - Speaker 2
There are 9 Starbucks in—
[01:36:46.12] - Speaker 1
9 Starbucks. There's also mainstream specialty coffee shop like Noir.
[01:36:52.09] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:36:52.20] - Speaker 1
Cuvée Noir.
[01:36:53.15] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:36:54.01] - Speaker 1
But even if they are giant crispy, even if they are not that many and it's not a question of quantity,
there are some amazing coffee shops there.
[01:37:03.14] - Speaker 2
Again, we said that we want to rank them as a I mean, it's hard because Motors is there, to name drop
one, and they're one of the best coffee shops. If you are a coffee nerd, go to Motors while you're here.
They are, of course, across the street from a rat-killing shop. I don't know what we call that, like a pest,
you know, like, so the location they're in, but like you do have a view of Tour Saint-Jacques down the
street. So anyways, very, very good coffee shop.
[01:37:30.17] - Speaker 1
Yeah. And I think one could argue it's probably the most well-known Coffee shop.
[01:37:37.17] - Speaker 2
It's very likely. Yeah, there— I think, I think between them, honestly, Clove has a huge— we can get into
the coffee shop conversation. There are some coffee shops that have very, very good reputations.
Um, but anyway, long story short, District 1 has a lot of noise. Yes. Uh, noise-to-signal ratio is pretty
high. Yes.
[01:37:55.21] - Speaker 1
But this is— and now I'm gonna, I'm gonna give some names, but this is the arrondissement where
you have motors.
[01:38:02.06] - Speaker 2
Yep.
[01:38:02.20] - Speaker 1
Uh, but also some very, uh, OG places like Telescope.
[01:38:07.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah, that's right, Telescope. They are in the first, aren't they?
[01:38:10.06] - Speaker 1
And if you think about roastery, French roasters, roasters from Paris, yeah, there is Terre de Café.
Yeah, there is Tanat.
[01:38:18.00] - Speaker 2
Yeah, Tanat's also one of like the best coffee roasters in Europe, right? So like, there— I have a friend
who went to Ireland for a vacation to get— he was like, I want to get away from Parisian coffee for a
minute. And the first place he went was just a wall of orange. He was like, what the— So yeah, there's
some great coffee. Yeah.
[01:38:34.06] - Speaker 1
I do have one on that, actually. I also have a funny story. So I went to the World of Coffee Bangkok. I
was super lucky. I went this year. And anytime I said that I'm French, people said to me, Thanat.
[01:38:49.15] - Speaker 2
Yep.
[01:38:50.01] - Speaker 1
Immediately. Just like when I was a kid, it was Zinedine Zidane. Now it's like when you're around
coffee lovers and you say, I'm French. Oh, you must know Tanat.
[01:38:57.09] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:38:57.19] - Speaker 1
So clearly there's something they're doing really well.
[01:39:00.11] - Speaker 2
I mean, thankfully the name has stuck too since they changed their name, so that, that's good. Okay,
so the 1st, how are they like? As Parisians avoid so much of the 1st because of like Châtelet in
particular, and I don't tend to say that I wouldn't go there very often to eat either. Um, there are some
great spots around, but as you get closer to the 2nd, that's when you start— it starts feeling Better.
There's also big shots there too, right? So I think there's some really fun, there's some fun spots.
There's some of the best spots. I probably would give it a B off the top of my head.
[01:39:35.04] - Speaker 1
Yeah, I would say A or B.
[01:39:36.11] - Speaker 2
Yeah. 'Cause I'm tempted to give it an A, but then I start thinking about other parts of the city and I'm
like, ooh. I mean, I'm in there with you. I'm in there with you. This is, this is the first one we do.
[01:39:46.16] - Speaker 1
So, uh, for me it would be an A.
[01:39:48.06] - Speaker 2
Okay, for you it's a B. Yeah, we're starting out, starting out with a B, but I could be convinced. I could
be convinced.
[01:39:53.02] - Speaker 1
Sure. Moving on, District 2. Why I don't say arrondissement?
[01:39:57.04] - Speaker 2
Deuxième arrondissement. Yeah, I don't know. I say—
[01:40:00.03] - Speaker 1
but no, but you know, I used to live in the US. No one—
[01:40:02.14] - Speaker 2
so did I.
[01:40:03.04] - Speaker 1
When I said arrondissement, it's like too difficult. So I used to say— why?
[01:40:07.15] - Speaker 2
It's true, but I also struggle because I, I never pronounce it arrondissement, you know? Like, it's
difficult. I make my— I would— I cringe. So like, I still say it the But this is— this gets into the whole
conversation of like, when do you use the French pronunciation, when don't you? And I don't know
what the answer is, but arrondissement to me will always be correct. So that's just the way it is.
[01:40:27.20] - Speaker 1
So District 2.
[01:40:28.22] - Speaker 2
Yep, District 2.
[01:40:29.18] - Speaker 1
I just say District 2?
[01:40:30.21] - Speaker 2
Do it, just do it.
[01:40:31.13] - Speaker 1
So, um, very similar.
[01:40:33.23] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:40:34.04] - Speaker 1
To District 1. Um, probably less, um, noise. Yeah. Oh, definitely less.
[01:40:41.12] - Speaker 2
Yeah, I could see that.
[01:40:42.05] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:40:43.08] - Speaker 2
'Cause it's narrower streets. It's very, very, very dense. There are no real parks there. There's some,
you know, there's some stuff to do, but it's mostly like a place you go to eat and do a little bit of
boutique shopping. And there are a lot of hotels. But it's not— I always call the second the hidden gem
because no tourist really is gonna go there 'cause the big things aren't there. But there is a lot of
coffee there.
[01:41:10.05] - Speaker 1
There's a lot of coffee. There is one of the— if we think about the latest addition, Rue Tictone, like
Terre de Café and Thanad, both of them opened less than 2 years ago. So definitely more is coming
in. More is coming in.
[01:41:29.21] - Speaker 2
More mainstream stuff too.
[01:41:32.12] - Speaker 1
Yes. There is also one that we have to mention. We mentioned Motors in District 1. District 2, there is
Substance.
[01:41:38.16] - Speaker 2
Yes, yeah, of course. But do you consider Substance to be a coffee shop?
[01:41:43.21] - Speaker 1
Joachim would say no. I don't know, I should not speak on his behalf.
[01:41:48.05] - Speaker 2
Because I don't. I think, I think of it as kind of like Maison du Barista. I think of it as being an
experience. Like, you sign up in advance, you go sit for an hour and a half. It is all about the coffee,
and it's famous. Like, everybody knows, everybody knows, like, Substance or Substance.
[01:42:04.00] - Speaker 1
For me, I would say it's like some of those Japanese coffee shops, right? Okay, it's not one of those
you can just pass by, get in, and you cannot— yeah, you cannot. You have to book. There's no to-go
takeaway.
[01:42:14.18] - Speaker 2
No, and you might wait 30 or 40 minutes to even get a coffee because he's busy making everyone
else's, right?
[01:42:18.21] - Speaker 1
So, you know, but you can't go in there without having already had coffee.
[01:42:22.12] - Speaker 2
Like, if you're sitting there jonesing for your first cup and he's watching him make it for other people—
[01:42:27.17] - Speaker 1
No, but you know, one could argue if you If you think about food and restaurants, some restaurants
work like that. They are still restaurants. You won't have the discussion to tell me whether is it still a
restaurant.
[01:42:36.09] - Speaker 2
That's true. That's true.
[01:42:37.00] - Speaker 1
So at the end of the day, it's still a coffee shop.
[01:42:38.19] - Speaker 2
Yeah, it's okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. Touché, touché. Which is not how the French use that word
either. We'll stop talking about how French works. Okay, so the second. Yeah, but that's a B. It's a B for
sure.
[01:42:49.17] - Speaker 1
For me, it's slightly behind the first.
[01:42:52.21] - Speaker 2
The first.
[01:42:53.11] - Speaker 1
Yes. Sometimes we had some surprises and I would say This is your surprise, right? Yeah.
[01:42:59.09] - Speaker 2
I saw you because I saw your paper list, and this one shocked me. This one shocked me because
after our conversation yesterday in particular, neither of us would have put the third where you put it.
But tell me, I gotta, I gotta know what's going on.
[01:43:10.02] - Speaker 1
I know, I know. And again, it's just our opinion, but I would say le troisième arrondissement is S tier.
[01:43:17.07] - Speaker 2
Okay, explain to me how it's an S tier. Yeah, yeah.
[01:43:20.10] - Speaker 1
So first, when it comes, you know, to noise. there's actually little noise there. And I was surprised
because this is the Hupper Marais. Yeah, I thought that there would be a lot of—
[01:43:31.12] - Speaker 2
No. Yeah, they don't have a lot of noise that I can see.
[01:43:33.16] - Speaker 1
They don't have a lot of noise. It's also a lot of like independent places. And just, you know, it's not
that I want to drop names, but I'm going to give you— I think they have—
[01:43:43.18] - Speaker 2
Anybody we're pumping? Anything positive?
[01:43:45.11] - Speaker 1
They have the best of the OGs, some of the very good OGs. And also some new additions. I would say
really, they are new, but really promising, where you can have a very different experience. So, I mean,
you could do just a coffee tour on District 3. So just, I have to name some. Fringe.
[01:44:04.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Which is one of the oldest coffee shops in Paris.
[01:44:08.14] - Speaker 1
Yes. And I'm going to give you some new ones. There is Tiba. So Tiba is there. Even in the—
[01:44:15.00] - Speaker 2
well, and Chiba is like a really good bridge between the worlds we're talking about, where they are,
they're as nerdy as a Maison du Barista or Sustance, but it is a coffee shop where that you're there to
come drink and get out if you want to.
[01:44:27.03] - Speaker 1
That's one of the things, uh, Kevin, who's the, the founder, yeah, uh, got really well. He's, he's still very,
uh, he's very good when it comes to hospitality. So you can go there and have a very, uh, I heard that
term hyper nerd experience. But if you're not, you're still going to enjoy it.
[01:44:48.19] - Speaker 2
And, you know, it's very well balanced because it's high touch, but it does not feel in your face. Like if
you just wanted to go have a nice cup of coffee and not talk to anybody, you can do that. If you want
to talk with them for an hour, I mean, you keep drinking coffee, I would guess, because it's a small
space. So make sure you buy coffee.
[01:45:05.09] - Speaker 1
And there is also something that I like about this arrondissement, there are places like serve very
different roasters. Because one of the things you ask about, you know, how much do you like coffee
and don't get bored. There are some arrondissements, even if they are independent coffee shop, they
tend to serve the same coffee.
[01:45:25.20] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:45:26.23] - Speaker 1
Which, and again, I can understand it's money, the reason it's profit. So Yeah. But then in the end, in a
way, they look more or less the same. And sometimes even, you know, I'm not even talking about the
aesthetic. It's the same floor, same wood anyway. Yeah.
[01:45:42.12] - Speaker 2
So, okay.
[01:45:43.09] - Speaker 1
So there's Pontochoux. They serve like coffee from Scandinavia.
[01:45:48.03] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:45:48.16] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:45:49.04] - Speaker 2
I mean, get a little bit more.
[01:45:50.01] - Speaker 1
That's why I think, you know, I can be sold on this.
[01:45:52.10] - Speaker 2
I could be sold on this because when you, when I can already project what I would have thought
changing as this conversation goes. So where are we at with the 4th arrondissement?
[01:46:03.07] - Speaker 1
Not that—
[01:46:05.01] - Speaker 2
There are some things that are very important about the 4th. One, it has Caféothèque, which is kind of
the— if you've been around a while, you know Caféothèque, but I think at this point it's become the
unsung hero of the Paris coffee scene. It's where everybody got their start. They got trained, they got
introduced to it back in like 2006, right? So Caféothèque is really, really important. Um, you do have
like Mini Cafe, which is really fun. Um, when it comes to like really, really specialty, man, it's tough
because like the same thing for food, it's kind of like you, you got to get out of the 4th and go to the
3rd. Like that's just generally what I tell people.
[01:46:41.22] - Speaker 1
And, and the 4th is a very interesting one because it's one of those where you, you're gonna find a lot
of independent coffee shops, small coffee shops.
[01:46:50.02] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:46:51.02] - Speaker 1
Uh, and not that Actually, like, in my mind I was thinking about District 4 with a lot of also, uh, tons of
history, uh, but not— it's not that they're gone. I mean, there is the Nespresso.
[01:47:03.18] - Speaker 2
Yeah, and there's some Starbucks and stuff around, but not that many. Yeah, um, like you said, a
bunch of clothes too.
[01:47:09.07] - Speaker 1
But, but you know when we talk about, uh, coffee shop as a trend and places plaster specialty coffee
but they don't know what they're talking about, right? Unfortunately, District 4 is full of those.
[01:47:21.07] - Speaker 2
Has a lot of those. Yeah.
[01:47:22.02] - Speaker 1
Has a lot of those.
[01:47:22.21] - Speaker 2
Yeah. I'm gonna give it a C.
[01:47:24.11] - Speaker 1
It's not bad.
[01:47:24.22] - Speaker 2
Is my— in my brain, I think the cool— what I would say, if you're gonna do coffee, this is not gonna win
me any points. I realize I say this out loud, but because when I, when I tell people, when I tell people to
go for coffee in the 4th, I'm thinking about the broader experience of it. And I'm like, get a coffee and
walk along the river. Like, go, go sit behind Notre Dame, enjoy Paris. And so that naturally means I'm
sending you either to like Mini Café on Île Saint-Louis, great, or like Noir on Île Saint-Louis. Yeah. And
I'm realizing that's— that there's got to be— I feel like there's something else right there. But that— and
you can go to the Peloton right next to that too and grab a coffee to go kind of a thing. But when it
comes down to the 4th, for me it's very much like, yeah, go, go enjoy the river.
[01:48:06.16] - Speaker 1
Terre de Café Blanc Manteau.
[01:48:08.06] - Speaker 2
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:48:11.05] - Speaker 1
That's a nice location. Very nice one.
[01:48:12.10] - Speaker 2
It's so close to the 3rd, that's the dangerous thing. But it's— yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:48:15.19] - Speaker 1
But that's why it is District 4, and that's probably, uh—
[01:48:18.16] - Speaker 2
They have 2 right there. They have 2 right there. They have one that's literally just in the 3rd on, uh,
Rambuteau. So yeah, so, so I just got nervous. I'm gonna get it. Yeah, I gave— I'm giving it a C.
Probably there. Yeah, I mean, I have to. I— yeah, sorry, I always get in so much trouble for the 4th, but
here we are. Okay, the 5th. 5th in Studentville. The 5th is where we have the Pantheon. It's where we
have Jardin des Plantes. You have Kribble, or Kribble. I always call it Kribble, but it's Kribble right
there. Very lovely. Uh, they're so nice. Uh, what else we got? We got, uh, Strada, which is also pretty OG
for the coffee shop scene. It is their, their standing location, which I do love for the natural light and
the pain perdu. There's, uh, not a lot going on.
[01:49:05.04] - Speaker 1
Not a lot going on.
[01:49:06.11] - Speaker 2
Is Lutza there?
[01:49:07.11] - Speaker 1
Yeah, yes, there is, um, Background Coffee.
[01:49:11.04] - Speaker 2
Oh, Background is— they are so close to the border with the 6th and the 14th. Yeah, I forgot. They're
very nice.
[01:49:16.12] - Speaker 1
But, uh, not that much noise. I thought it would be more noisy.
[01:49:22.11] - Speaker 2
Uh, Trez is in the 6th, so...
[01:49:24.21] - Speaker 1
Very little.
[01:49:26.04] - Speaker 2
So yeah, there's not much going on. They're gonna— I mean, we love the 5th. God, the Left Bank
people are gonna kill us for this, but yeah, it's a D. That's definitely a D. Just in case you weren't sure,
it's S-A-B-D-F. There's no E involved. All right, and the 6th is not going to do a whole lot better. They do
have Tendel 6, they do have Nuance 6, um, they've got Treize if you want to go for a full brunch. But
that is the thing, I would send you there for brunch. I wouldn't send you there necessarily just to get
coffee.
[01:49:54.01] - Speaker 1
Full disclosure, I'm a Right Banker.
[01:49:55.22] - Speaker 2
I mean, most of us are, but that's okay.
[01:49:57.20] - Speaker 1
But, but I'm gonna have to say a nice thing about District 6. District 6. Yeah, 6e arrondissement.
[01:50:04.18] - Speaker 2
6e arrondissement. That's tough. It's a very narrow— it's very actually very small.
[01:50:09.00] - Speaker 1
It's very small. There is one which is, uh, under the radar which I think deserves so much, uh, attention.
It's Café du— I'm gonna say it the French way— Café du Clown.
[01:50:20.07] - Speaker 2
Yeah, Café du Clown is really fun. Café du Clown in the Marché de Saint-Germain.
[01:50:26.06] - Speaker 1
And for me again, If you think about, you are a tourist.
[01:50:30.08] - Speaker 2
It's a really good spot.
[01:50:31.05] - Speaker 1
Serious coffee lover. You arrive in Paris.
[01:50:33.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:50:34.02] - Speaker 1
Wow. It's hard to beat.
[01:50:35.01] - Speaker 2
You go there. It's very unique.
[01:50:36.06] - Speaker 1
You have that massive facade.
[01:50:38.09] - Speaker 2
Does Café du Clown elevate the entire arrondissement?
[01:50:41.16] - Speaker 1
So no.
[01:50:42.11] - Speaker 2
No. We're going to give that a C.
[01:50:47.08] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:50:48.01] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think—
[01:50:49.17] - Speaker 1
C makes it better than—
[01:50:52.10] - Speaker 2
Than the 5th.
[01:50:53.10] - Speaker 1
That 5th.
[01:50:53.21] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:50:54.02] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[01:50:54.22] - Speaker 2
Uh, so the 7th. No, I'm not gonna laugh. No, but you know the 7th has Kutum, right?
[01:51:01.00] - Speaker 1
Yes.
[01:51:01.08] - Speaker 2
Which is one of the OGs, and their location has gone through so many transformations over the years,
but they, they do some really fun, really fun food as well.
[01:51:09.18] - Speaker 1
It's very little, but actually—
[01:51:10.21] - Speaker 2
There's not much, and it's a much bigger—
[01:51:12.04] - Speaker 1
Yeah, it's not much, and it's not even like, uh—
[01:51:15.13] - Speaker 2
There's a Terre de Café.
[01:51:16.21] - Speaker 1
So you have the OG, uh, historical—
[01:51:19.13] - Speaker 2
Kutum is historic, so it's important, but More or less, that's it. Okay, we'll say the 7th is a D. Or is it an
F? This is getting hard. We don't want to overdo the F category, and I think— I know you have a couple
coming up. Yeah, I would say D. What?
[01:51:34.17] - Speaker 1
Why is it a D?
[01:51:37.01] - Speaker 2
Because it only has a few coffee shops. Yeah, 8 is always— 8's an F in every category.
[01:51:42.18] - Speaker 1
Oh my gosh.
[01:51:43.16] - Speaker 2
Okay, so what about the— 8 has Café Nuance, the original. No, it does— it's not the original, it's like
their 3rd location. So it has Café Nuance and McDonald's and Starbucks.
[01:51:57.11] - Speaker 1
Okay. To the credit of District 8, now again, I'm looking at the data. There is just like— oh, there's a City
of Light now. City of Light, they opened, can't remember, maybe 2 years ago in District 4. Rue Mahler.
And now there's one in Madeleine.
[01:52:16.17] - Speaker 2
Cool, I'm marking that down to check it out. And there's a noir, a very beautiful noir in Madeleine now
too.
[01:52:21.05] - Speaker 1
So there are some mainstream, uh, roasted by Ezra, who's amazing.
[01:52:26.06] - Speaker 2
Um, honestly, it's hard for me to give— after we just listed those, it feels a little harder to give the 8—
the F to 8 and not to 7.
[01:52:35.23] - Speaker 1
I mean, 7 still have those OGs like, uh, Coutumes. Yeah.
[01:52:42.00] - Speaker 2
Yeah. Was that their first location, was in the 7th? Terre de Café?
[01:52:45.15] - Speaker 1
Uh, no, Coutume, I think.
[01:52:46.20] - Speaker 2
Okay.
[01:52:47.04] - Speaker 1
I think Sèvres Babylon, maybe they are in the same tier, but I would say 7th, it's like maybe 7th, you
could be in the same tier and, and one could be, you know, the best of that tier. So if you— it's up to
you.
[01:52:58.23] - Speaker 2
But, uh, yeah, it's hard. Okay. Well, and the 9th is obviously we're moving back up. Um, so the 9th
arrondissement is from Opéra through Pigalle over to uh, magenta, basically.
[01:53:11.11] - Speaker 1
The 9th surprised me because—
[01:53:14.01] - Speaker 2
It's not a lot going on in the 9th, really.
[01:53:15.23] - Speaker 1
The 9th, for me, I—
[01:53:17.11] - Speaker 2
You would think, for how— as much as I would think there would be, because you have KB, which is
another one of the OGs, and it's— it is the— at least used to be the most heavily trafficked coffee shop
in Paris, right? So it has deep history. But like, once you, once you click out of KB, it's kind of like, wait,
what else is in the 9th?
[01:53:35.00] - Speaker 1
I'm going there. Uh, there are some, but what surprised me, there's a lot of noise.
[01:53:41.13] - Speaker 2
Yeah, there's a ton of noise.
[01:53:42.06] - Speaker 1
There's so many coffee chains and mainstream.
[01:53:45.12] - Speaker 2
Well, so here's the thing though too, for people that aren't familiar with the layout of Paris, the 9th is, is
almost the most diverse culturally in the sense that to the southwest you have Opéra, which is
department stores like Galeries Lafayette, Printemps, all that. So you have that kind of a culture. Then
you have more of a residential culture in the middle section that is very like families, upper middle
class is how you could kind of think about it, very walkable. And then just at the top of it is Pigalle,
which is the nightlife, and it's smutty and dirty and fun, right?
[01:54:16.18] - Speaker 1
You guys gave an American name to this—
[01:54:18.23] - Speaker 2
Pigalle. Soapy.
[01:54:20.11] - Speaker 1
Soapy.
[01:54:20.19] - Speaker 2
So, no, I didn't— yeah, some people have been trying to call it Soapy. Yeah, like, like, so South Pigalle.
Sure, go for it. But the— I'm not calling it so soapy. Um, the 9th has got that for the noise. It makes
total sense because especially to the west, you're going to have a ton of chains because that's like all
there is. But yeah, it's got— it's maybe a D. No, really? For coffee? Is it really?
[01:54:49.16] - Speaker 1
What did you put on C?
[01:54:51.06] - Speaker 2
C is the 4th and the 6th. It is, it is, like, really, when you think about it. Is it really? No, it can't be. This is,
this is crazy to me because the 9th, I love the 9th, but like—
[01:55:03.21] - Speaker 1
Do you know Monlou?
[01:55:06.01] - Speaker 2
Uh, no.
[01:55:06.20] - Speaker 1
There's Monlou, and do you know Simmer? I'm just trying to save the—
[01:55:10.19] - Speaker 2
I mean, yeah, but that, that's enough to keep it from falling any farther down the list. Is it really? It's a
4.
[01:55:20.04] - Speaker 1
I'm just looking at—
[01:55:21.04] - Speaker 2
I mean, it feels like if we gave the—
[01:55:22.15] - Speaker 1
is it— what is it?
[01:55:24.09] - Speaker 2
The 6th. The 6th. So the 4th and the 6th are in C.
[01:55:27.23] - Speaker 1
No, I think you're right. Probably a D.
[01:55:30.03] - Speaker 2
Yeah, fuck. Okay, that hurts. See, I'm, I'm, I'm in pain. I don't think— uh, no, it's— no, Nico won't
appreciate that. But you know, Nico is that— again, he's the— he's the— it's the gem. It's the gem
there. Okay, what's the, the 10th? Now this is, this is actually where there's an inversion coming
because Yesterday we met in the 10th, and for me, yes, some of the best coffee shops are in this
neighborhood. Uh, we're sitting in this, in the 10th right now, um, at Maison du Barista, and it is so
good for coffee. I would have put it as an S tier, but you have thoughts about that, and I'm guessing it
has to do with noise.
[01:56:04.18] - Speaker 1
It's not noise. It's more about, it's a very, I mean, it's a very good, uh, arrondissement. For us.
[01:56:13.02] - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:56:13.19] - Speaker 1
I mean, there's so—
[01:56:15.21] - Speaker 2
there's so much good stuff here.
[01:56:16.20] - Speaker 1
So much good stuff.
[01:56:17.15] - Speaker 2
You can throw a rock and hit good coffee from where we are.
[01:56:19.22] - Speaker 1
A lot of, um, independent places.
[01:56:24.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:56:24.11] - Speaker 1
So they don't not look all the same, but they have— it's funny because we are right now at La Maison
du Barista, but they have more, I would say, coffee places where coffee is a supporting character.
[01:56:39.00] - Speaker 2
Sure.
[01:56:39.18] - Speaker 1
Than places where coffee is the protagonist. So as a serious coffee lover, it's a very good one. But for
me, it's— they don't have like—
[01:56:50.18] - Speaker 2
Okay, to rank it below the 3rd is like crazy to me, but I understand why.
[01:56:56.14] - Speaker 1
Because I think you are— I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, you're thinking maybe quantity. Like, we're
gonna— there's another— there is another arrondissement. So there are 2 arrondissements.
[01:57:07.18] - Speaker 2
I'm—
[01:57:08.05] - Speaker 1
I have to spoil. So District 10 and 11, just the 2 of them, it's like 28% of what we have on Comme des
Garçons.
[01:57:17.00] - Speaker 2
Yeah, 100%.
[01:57:17.19] - Speaker 1
So you're right. Yeah.
[01:57:20.12] - Speaker 2
You are. Yeah, it's hard.
[01:57:22.20] - Speaker 1
It's hard. Maybe it's S. Maybe it's S. You can be S.
[01:57:25.21] - Speaker 2
No, it doesn't have to be. It's just, I don't want to force it because it is one of my— I mean, we're in my
favorite territory right now, right between the 9th, 10th, 11th, getting into Belleville and up above. So
like I am, I am, he's biased for his business. I'm biased for my heart and it hurts my heart a little bit,
but I think I'm, so I want to hear what you, I want to hear why you think 11 is S and 10 is not before I
make my decision.
[01:57:50.23] - Speaker 1
The main difference between those 2.
[01:57:53.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:57:53.23] - Speaker 1
It's that when it comes to, again, we really, we did a deep dive. Yeah.
[01:57:58.15] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:57:58.23] - Speaker 1
So we look at, we wanted to reward the most difficult type of business you could run as a coffee shop
owner.
[01:58:10.02] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:58:10.12] - Speaker 1
Which is it's all about coffee. So coffee is the main, you know, is the protagonist.
[01:58:16.09] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:58:17.02] - Speaker 1
And you are running an independent coffee shop, meaning you are not even a roaster. So it's harder to
make.
[01:58:24.21] - Speaker 2
Yeah, my mind goes straight. Okay, well, so there's one.
[01:58:27.00] - Speaker 1
And if you look at that, yeah, I can mention More than a handful places in District 11.
[01:58:34.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[01:58:35.09] - Speaker 1
Café Caractère, Harvest, and Tactile.
[01:58:42.02] - Speaker 2
Well, Tactile. Yeah.
[01:58:43.02] - Speaker 1
That's that's that yeah that's Comets.
[01:58:46.23] - Speaker 2
Yeah, they're really fun. I love them. They have the only brownie in Paris. Fauna. Well, fauna. Okay.
They're in they're.
[01:58:53.12] - Speaker 1
No, I'm also mentioning the. I'm also mentioning the. The, um, Dreaming Man.
[01:59:01.10] - Speaker 2
Yeah, his original spot. All right, yeah, okay, all right, I'm sold.
[01:59:04.22] - Speaker 1
No, but I'm sold.
[01:59:05.16] - Speaker 2
I mean, I'm sold. No, you're right, you're right.
[01:59:07.04] - Speaker 1
No, you're right.
[01:59:07.18] - Speaker 2
So, you know, when you're right, you're right.
[01:59:08.14] - Speaker 1
Could be neck and neck.
[01:59:09.18] - Speaker 2
No, when you're right, you're right.
[01:59:11.04] - Speaker 1
I'm gonna lose all my friends from District 10.
[01:59:13.08] - Speaker 2
I was starting to— I was starting to think— I was starting to think too much about Saint-Ambroise, and
then you brought it back to Oberkampf, and I was like, oh yeah, uh, that's impossible.
[01:59:20.20] - Speaker 1
Okay, Polygon.
[01:59:22.18] - Speaker 2
You don't have to keep going. You got me. You got okay.
[01:59:26.03] - Speaker 1
This video is sponsored by District Eleven.
[01:59:28.04] - Speaker 2
No kidding. Yeah, le mari de d'ancien allait vers moi. Je cherche, je cherche un atelier. Voilà.
[01:59:34.19] - Speaker 1
Okay, so can we get married in?
[01:59:37.01] - Speaker 2
I mean, if only I could get married in the eleven. Yeah, c'est pour ça. My assistant did too, actually. So
Emily and Joshua got married there too. So okay, the twelfth arrondissement. Alors gut gut. Says
after all this would be a C. You have Early Bird, you have, um—
[01:59:55.01] - Speaker 1
I think, I think, uh, 12, for me it's probably D.
[01:59:59.09] - Speaker 2
Yeah, it might be actually, because I'm trying to— I'm struggling to remember.
[02:00:02.06] - Speaker 1
I will tell you why, because lots of—
[02:00:04.02] - Speaker 2
Oh, Magic Carpet is there. Yeah, there's a lot of noise. Yeah, there's a lot of noise. Okay, sorry, 12,
you're a D. We're not, we're not, we're not worrying about making like an even distribution here. We're
trying to be objective. as objective as we can with the subjectivity sprinkled in. Okay, so the 13th is— I,
I— we have Kaioh, we have We Love Coffee.
[02:00:24.02] - Speaker 1
That's it.
[02:00:25.01] - Speaker 2
And that's literally— I think that's literally it. I think that's an F, honestly, unfortunately.
[02:00:30.03] - Speaker 1
Sorry, Fox.
[02:00:30.13] - Speaker 2
We love you guys. Yeah, sorry, Fox. We'll come back to Fox in a minute though. Uh, the 14th, you had
something marked down that I don't think I know yet. There's— but there's, um, I, I was looking. So
Hexagon is there, right? One of the classics.
[02:00:45.07] - Speaker 1
Uh, do you know Bleu?
[02:00:47.06] - Speaker 2
Bleu is there. Yeah, that's right. Bleu is there. And there's another place that I discovered, Aka, right?
Not that long ago.
[02:00:54.03] - Speaker 1
But I would say C.
[02:00:56.01] - Speaker 2
Would you? You'd say C? You're skipping above D to C. Why?
[02:01:01.12] - Speaker 1
Me being trying to be nice with some Left Bank.
[02:01:04.02] - Speaker 2
We do not need to be nice to the Left Bank. They, uh, they're, they're on their own.
[02:01:08.23] - Speaker 1
Maybe I, I say that because the one that gonna come after? I would say District 14 might be, uh, 14.
[02:01:17.13] - Speaker 2
I fit, but 15 has O Coffee and it has Good News and it has, um, the place that's right off the metro, uh,
Bell Horizons. Uh, that's already way better than the 14th in my mind.
[02:01:31.07] - Speaker 1
Is it?
[02:01:31.18] - Speaker 2
Yes, because Hexagon— I love Hexagon's coffee, but it's the, like, the, the, the I, I don't want to go
there in the same way I want to go to O Coffee or to Good News or Bell Horizons. Like, those 3 for me
are solid, all for different reasons. They all have great coffee, good food. Bell Horizons is very focused
on their coffee. I would put them—
[02:01:51.10] - Speaker 1
I would definitely put them on different tiers or same one?
[02:01:53.23] - Speaker 2
I would put, I would put the 15th above the 14th. Yeah, which is gonna get me in trouble with 3 people
from the 14th, as it always does.
[02:02:00.14] - Speaker 1
But yeah, I mean, possibly. The thing for me, I mean, District 15, there's a lot of mainstream.
[02:02:07.12] - Speaker 2
Okay, so there's more noise.
[02:02:09.01] - Speaker 1
There's more noise. But there is one that you did not mention that I know some coffee— I mean, some
people either love it or hate it. But do you know Neu?
[02:02:19.03] - Speaker 2
I don't know that I do, actually.
[02:02:20.07] - Speaker 1
It's definitely a main—
[02:02:22.10] - Speaker 2
Love it or hate it?
[02:02:23.15] - Speaker 1
No, it's a protagonist place, but I think it's more about the experience.
[02:02:27.02] - Speaker 2
I'd say 14 is a D. And 15 is a C. That's where I'd put that. Okay, we got a lot of Ds, but that's, that's the
way it goes with coffee in Paris. 16th, gonna be down there.
[02:02:39.09] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[02:02:39.12] - Speaker 2
So the 16th, but you have— so I mean, coffee's not the protagonist, but Belén is amazing.
[02:02:44.04] - Speaker 1
But it's a bakery.
[02:02:45.04] - Speaker 2
But it's a bakery, but they do good coffee.
[02:02:46.22] - Speaker 1
Yeah.
[02:02:47.08] - Speaker 2
There's nothing else really there though. There is, there's, there's a few noirs now.
[02:02:50.15] - Speaker 1
This is the arrondissement of noir. I think it is. They have like—
[02:02:54.06] - Speaker 2
but that's, this is where I like— this is why I like noirs, because they saved me.
[02:02:57.18] - Speaker 1
Exactly. They save So they, in a way, they saved people.
[02:03:01.20] - Speaker 2
Yeah, you could say that for that, but—
[02:03:03.04] - Speaker 1
But as a— again—
[02:03:05.07] - Speaker 2
If you're a specialty coffee lover, yeah.
[02:03:06.19] - Speaker 1
If you're a specialty coffee lover, you won't go there as a destination.
[02:03:10.04] - Speaker 2
No, I would say that if the 13th is an F, then the 16th is an F. Yeah, okay. 17th. So there are 2 17ths.
There's the 17th that's closer to the 16th, and then there's the 17th that's closer to the 18th. They are
divided by the trains leaving San Lázaro, and there's a very, very distinct difference between the 2. So
it does feel unfair to judge the entire thing. If you were Judging the 17th to the west, it would be an
absolute F. If you're judging the 17th to the east, it would probably be a C.
[02:03:40.03] - Speaker 1
I would say it's very average.
[02:03:42.15] - Speaker 2
God, I think the 17th deserves a C just for that, because you have Vag, you have— it hurts me, I'm not
gonna say it because there's a coffee shop that's there that used to be— it was another savior of the
coffee scene back in the day that's no longer worth going to. That will remain nameless.
[02:03:59.07] - Speaker 1
Long time ago, uh, I lived there and we only had Terre de Café Batignolles.
[02:04:04.05] - Speaker 2
Oh, that's right, there's Terre de Café there.
[02:04:06.13] - Speaker 1
But the thing is, if you look at how it looks, uh, 10 years ago and now, it did not change that much. You
mentioned Vague.
[02:04:12.17] - Speaker 2
It's true, Vague's not enough though to bring it up. I think— I feel like that's gonna be a D as well. Yeah,
it's a D. Yeah, yeah. Okay, um, the 18th is popping. So the 18th, we have Sample, we have Sinon, we
have Mignon, we have Tudors, we have You know what's funny?
[02:04:29.20] - Speaker 1
You mentioned you forgot one of your favorite coffee shops in the world.
[02:04:34.06] - Speaker 2
Clove! We have Clove. Yeah, and Clove is one of the best in the world. Oh, we didn't— I didn't name
drop for the 10th. I forgot to name drop like Perlan, which is also one of the best. Freaking amazing.
Sorry, Perlan.
[02:04:46.20] - Speaker 1
But yeah, have you tried Bun?
[02:04:48.13] - Speaker 2
I don't know that I have Bun. Oh yeah, I have. Yeah, actually, yeah, I went there the week they opened.
Their pastries Cookies, man. Oh my God, she makes like a blueberry cookie. You'd be shocked, it's so
good. But their coffee is good too.
[02:05:01.18] - Speaker 1
Historically, there's Lomi.
[02:05:03.21] - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Lomi, if you're gonna go back to the OGs, you also have Devotions. Um, you have
a lot of really good stuff.
[02:05:10.08] - Speaker 1
Beans on Fire.
[02:05:11.02] - Speaker 2
Beans on Fire. Uh, Trois Frères, which was Farfloo, which was so good.
[02:05:15.14] - Speaker 1
Forever.
[02:05:18.18] - Speaker 2
Okay, well, they're getting an A at this rate. Yeah, I think they're getting an A for sure. 18th. Who would
have thought? 18th getting an A on this. 19th, uh, we have Mardi. We have— I mean, it's not— you
wouldn't go there for the, the, uh, I don't want to be mean, but the experience of, uh, Panorama O
Cano— Decano? Panorama Decano?
[02:05:40.15] - Speaker 1
No, Panorama Decano.
[02:05:41.08] - Speaker 2
Yeah, it's really fun. It's just, it's like you get to— you can have coffee in a bathtub if you really want to.
It's not going to be the best coffee, but It's fun. So you have, uh, Café Bar 19th.
[02:05:51.01] - Speaker 1
The 19th, honestly, apart from Mardi, I mean, there's a few others.
[02:05:54.18] - Speaker 2
Yeah, Belleville's, uh, brûlerie is there in the 19th, but you can't really go there to have coffee.
[02:06:00.15] - Speaker 1
I would say D.
[02:06:02.05] - Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that hurts me too. I love the 19th. And our final arrondissement. Okay, dancing goat.
[02:06:09.00] - Speaker 1
Again, I really like this arrondissement.
[02:06:10.19] - Speaker 2
I love that arrondissement. You have chaise.
[02:06:13.06] - Speaker 1
You have, uh, Candle Kids.
[02:06:16.00] - Speaker 2
Candle Kids, plural.
[02:06:17.07] - Speaker 1
It's not that bad, actually.
[02:06:18.05] - Speaker 2
It's not. No, no, no, it's not mini. There's another one on the other side of Père-Lachaise I'm forgetting
the name of, but the 20th I would definitely rank above the 19th for coffee, which is a shock to me. No,
what's that?
[02:06:30.12] - Speaker 1
B or C?
[02:06:32.10] - Speaker 2
I— if the first in this— the first is no longer—
[02:06:37.12] - Speaker 1
if—
[02:06:37.15] - Speaker 2
where's the first gonna be for me? The first is a B. I think. And in that case, then the 20th can fill out
our B as well. But let's go over this. S tier, 3 and 11. I don't want to throw up when I say that, so it must
be right. Uh, A is 10 and 18. B is 1, 2, and 20.
[02:06:59.07] - Speaker 1
D—
[02:06:59.22] - Speaker 2
oh no, we're skipping. C is 4, 6, and 15. D is 5, 7, 9, 12, 14, 17, and 19. And then F It would just avoid it
if you're, if you're looking for coffee specifically, the 8th, the 13th, and the 16th. This feels right to me.
[02:07:19.10] - Speaker 1
This feels right to us.
[02:07:21.08] - Speaker 2
I mean, as somebody who lives here though too, it's like if I'm gonna— if I'm looking to go out and get
coffee, this represents exactly what I'm looking for. I do tend to give the 9th credit for some of the
18th, like Sidon and Semples are in Pigalle and so close to the 9th that in my brain they're linked to
KB. Right? But they're not. They're in the 18th. So when I'm thinking about like, oh, I want to meet
someone for coffee, I'm immediately thinking 10th, 11th, 18th really is where I'm going to be thinking.
The 3rd does pop in there, but the 3rd, I just don't go there as much as I used to.
[02:07:56.21] - Speaker 1
So if we look at S, A, and B, how many arrondissements do we have?
[02:08:01.14] - Speaker 2
S, A, and B, a total of 7.
[02:08:04.23] - Speaker 1
Yeah, so for me, uh, sounds about right. Yeah, like not half of the arrondissements are there yet, but
it's getting better.
[02:08:13.11] - Speaker 2
No, but it's, it's right because I mean, if you think about it, like a decade ago there would have been
no— you would never ever even be able to rank these by arrondissement because the list of 20 places
would just be all you had, right? You wouldn't even have 20 coffee shops. No, no, you would just be
like, there's this— you have like, yeah, the, the OGs and a few more. So like So this is the evolution. The
cool thing about this for me is that this actually shows the evolution of coffee in Paris, because the
fact that we actually have the strength we have at the top here, when you think about all the places
you could go to.
[02:08:47.03] - Speaker 1
Yeah, it is impressive. You know, we, we started to talk about all those, like, places that have no clue
about what they serve.
[02:08:55.04] - Speaker 2
Yeah, of course.
[02:08:55.15] - Speaker 1
But if you look at overall, I mean, you know, from where we are now to Substance Motors, now Tactile,
Terre de Café, L'Arbre à Café, KB. It's like, oh wow, you know.
[02:09:10.08] - Speaker 2
And there's also—
[02:09:10.20] - Speaker 1
overall, Paris is like now a very, uh—
[02:09:13.07] - Speaker 2
And it's very differentiated too, right? Like, you could have a list of— and I do have lists of this, like
whether it's for my patrons or for my guide. You know, my guide is like, is definitely— I probably have
100+ coffee shops in my guide, but The reality is that if I wanted to, I could easily break down a top 10
for this, a top 10 for that, a top 10 for that. So the idea that you could, or that you could like have a
very differentiated group where I'm like, this is my favorite for this specific thing and I can fill a list of
10, is mind-blowing because in the past you'd have been like, yeah, here's the 3 places you would go.
[02:09:48.07] - Speaker 1
In a nutshell, Paris used to flew under the radar. Yeah, for our coffee lovers.
[02:09:54.21] - Speaker 2
Absolutely.
[02:09:55.13] - Speaker 1
That's not the case anymore.
[02:09:56.16] - Speaker 2
No, I think we— I mean, that's the thing. As much as the French joked about jus de chaussette, we
used to be like, yeah, but the French just burn their coffee, right? So I think there's an interesting—
there's such a cool change that's happening, and I'm very, very excited for it because I've— as
somebody who loves coffee and really— and wants to support small businesses as much as I can, it
makes it so much easier when you have more small businesses you love, and then you get to see like
the growth of the ecosystem as a whole, because hopefully— there's always drama in the coffee
scene, like any scene, but your hope is that everybody can come together to build something healthier
together. And I do, I do think, like with the Paris Coffee Festival and other things, and Bean Trippy is
another really good example, there's some really interesting stuff happening in the coffee scene.
Perfect. Well, thanks, Rod, so much. This has been really, really fun.
[02:10:44.13] - Speaker 1
It was fun.
[02:10:45.09] - Speaker 2
Yeah.
[02:10:46.02] - Speaker 1
I hope we did not offend.
[02:10:48.18] - Speaker 2
Oh, we offended somebody. Oh, for sure we offended somebody. You put the We've— the Goran, you
know, one of the roasters for KB, is a huge fan of the 13th. So between him and Fox, we're in a lot of
trouble, but otherwise we should be good to go. Thank you so much.
[02:11:03.20] - Speaker 1
We'll have Thai food there.
[02:11:05.06] - Speaker 2
Wait, it'll all work out. Thank you so much for watching. Thanks for coming. Thank you. Thanks.
Appreciate having you here. And obviously you should download Komio, uh, if you are interested in
coffee in Paris in particular, but in other parts of the world, Singapore, other spots where you might
want to jump on that. Um, and then if you want my coffee recommendations, my full list, my personal
list, if this builds your trust in me, then pressinmypocket.com is the place for you. If this destroyed
your trust in me, then Commu— just go get Commu.
[02:11:34.12] - Speaker 1
It'll be fine. Thanks, Jay.