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We share stories of how the blood of Jesus has transformed ours and others' lives.
Denalee Bell:
All right. So, men are needed, mean girls got to go.
Jean Schilling:
Mean girls got to go.
Denalee Bell:
Mean girls got to go. And the mean girl within us has got to go.
Jean Schilling:
Okay. Let's just soften that really quick. Okay. Because-
Denalee Bell:
See, this is why you were invited. Because I'm the mean girl.
Jean Schilling:
We all have this fierceness within us that we want to be, right?
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
We want to be seen, we want to be heard.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
We want to be gazed upon with mystery, and magistery, and all of the things that just are like, "Yes."
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
And in that, there's nothing wrong with that. Again, if you're doing it for yourself, fantastic. But if you're doing it to hurt somebody else, not okay.
Denalee Bell:
No.
Jean Schilling:
You have to just soften it.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
So that it becomes more gentle for yourself. So that, when you are treating yourself gently, then, that aspects of life that become intense, or confusing, or unstable, or all the multitude of things, on the other side of it, the more gentle you can be, the more gentle you give.
Denalee Bell:
I like that.
Jean Schilling:
So, this is really the pieces of it, is that the emotion is the emotion, but how we interact with other people is the principle factor of being more feminine, and really, sharing that-
Denalee Bell:
The true femininity.
Jean Schilling:
Right. The true femininity.
Denalee Bell:
The femininity that we want to...
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
That I believe women truly, truly want to embrace.
Jean Schilling:
Exactly. We just have never been given-
Denalee Bell:
Or taught.
Jean Schilling:
Yes, true, taught what that is.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. Because it's not very popular. Right?
Jean Schilling:
No, it isn't.
Denalee Bell:
Power is popular.
Jean Schilling:
Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
Power is super popular.
Jean Schilling:
Exactly. And there's a whole other movement of the whole pussy power thing, and I just can't even, but I get it. I get it.
Denalee Bell:
I get where it came from.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
But I think it went too far.
Jean Schilling:
Exactly. You're like, "Yes. We have sexuality," and there's nothing wrong with that. I just think we need soften...
Denalee Bell:
Okay. When we use it to manipulate and extort is the problem.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. Exactly. That is exactly right, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Because we do.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Because that's how women have learned inappropriately to get what they want.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Mm-hmm.
Denalee Bell:
And we've actually been taught it's okay via the media.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Right. Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Where we learn how to be adults.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
The TV. I was raised on the Cosby Show.
Jean Schilling:
I think we all were raised on the Cosby Show.
Denalee Bell:
I know.
Jean Schilling:
And then, to find out he is terrible.
Denalee Bell:
I know. Which is such bummer...
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
... because I wanted that to be my family.
Jean Schilling:
Right, exactly. Everybody did. Right?
Denalee Bell:
I know. The perfect dad, the perfect mom.
Jean Schilling:
Mm-hmm.
Denalee Bell:
And then...
Jean Schilling:
And the kids who are-
Denalee Bell:
... kids dress appropriately and smart.
Jean Schilling:
Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
And the kids were cool.
Jean Schilling:
That's [inaudible 00:03:07].
Denalee Bell:
Lisa Bonet was cool. I wanted to be her. It was so cool.
Jean Schilling:
Me, too.
Denalee Bell:
So jealous.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
In a happy way.
Jean Schilling:
In a happy way.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. Like I'm happy for her. You know what I mean?
Jean Schilling:
Yes. Yes.
Denalee Bell:
And I think... Okay, so jealousy is another issue.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Jealousy comparison.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Comparison is the thief of joy.
Denalee Bell:
True.
Jean Schilling:
So, you got to remember that. Because it will...
Denalee Bell:
True. It will steal your joy.
Jean Schilling:
... steal every ounce of joy that you have.
Denalee Bell:
And why would we focus on what somebody has, or focus on what we want and go get it?
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
Like why?
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
I'm not going to look like Jennifer Lopez.
Jean Schilling:
No.
Denalee Bell:
I'm going to have to learn to appreciate this.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. And this is the whole thing, right? Like how do you really start appreciating exactly who you are? You have to start seeing yourself differently.
Denalee Bell:
I think what it all comes down to, all of this, and you said this earlier, is we're not loving ourselves.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Not you or me. Well, this is true. Me, too. I'm still learning to love myself, too. It's been an ongoing thing that I've been searching to learn.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Mm-hmm.
Denalee Bell:
And I think it's where it all stems from, is not loving ourselves. This whole conversation.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Well, this is the whole thing of broken family, right?
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
This is where it starts.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
Is that you don't have equal representation whether your parents were there or not there, whether they're there half the time-
Denalee Bell:
Or just one.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly. I mean, we, again, product of the '80s, my mom was the only person. I mean, I was really old when I realized the things that I thought my dad was actually doing were all my mother, which was so painful.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. Because you set up a system in your head.
Jean Schilling:
In my head.
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Jean Schilling:
That he actually cared, right?
Denalee Bell:
Mm-hmm.
Jean Schilling:
And then, you go through that whole process and realize that was never him, that was my mom. And again, this is the piece of it is the, okay, well, how do I love myself if, at the essence, the person who had to be there in order to create myself isn't in the picture. Where does that love come from and how do we really start seeing?
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Jean Schilling:
You have to have... I mean, to me, therapy is a beautiful thing. And if you aren't-
Denalee Bell:
Which I recommend.
Jean Schilling:
If you aren't on the couch, you should do that with somebody. Professionally, probably, you should pay for it because it's a lot easier than dumping that on your friends all the time.
Denalee Bell:
Well, it's not fair to your friends.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
It isn't.
Jean Schilling:
No.
Denalee Bell:
Let's have fun with your friends. Go see a therapist.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Enjoy the cocktails with your friends, and then...
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
... it will be a lot easier when you...
Denalee Bell:
It'll be so much more fun.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. Right.
Denalee Bell:
You'll be more fun... You'll have more friends.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. True. That's true, but again, I think if you don't know how to do that for yourself, we constantly...
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
... are in this comparison, you know...
Denalee Bell:
When you grow up in a broken family, there could be multiple issues.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
There's a reason they're broken.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Right?
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
They might be broken.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. They might be broken. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
And then, there's this abandonment, the rejection...
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
... from... Especially if it's your father.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Like my father left my family.
Jean Schilling:
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Denalee Bell:
It was very difficult for me to think I deserved being loved.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
So, how could I love myself if even the man who gave birth to me can't love me?
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Right?
Jean Schilling:
Exactly. Mm-hmm.
Denalee Bell:
Or the woman.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
It's a difficult journey. And then, let's say your mom is uber loving. When you grow up in a single mom, it doesn't matter if mom's working her tail off, so you can eat.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
You can see that, the love in that, but you still need the hugs.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
You still need the time.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
There's like a reason...
Jean Schilling:
The touch of it.
Denalee Bell:
... for families.
Jean Schilling:
Right. You need that tough.
Denalee Bell:
And that's why two-parent families are so beautiful, is because one person can't do it all.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
You just really can't.
Jean Schilling:
No.
Denalee Bell:
And that's the other lie we've been sold...
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
... by feminism, is you can have it all and do it all.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
And it is such a lie.
Jean Schilling:
Mm-hmm.
Denalee Bell:
You can do it all kind of.
Jean Schilling:
Alone.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
If you don't have a dog or a plant...
Jean Schilling:
Exactly. Yes. Exactly. You still need friends.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
You still need that support, and the... I mean...
Denalee Bell:
But-
Jean Schilling:
... even as women, you have male friends or friends as the husbands that you're like, I do not want to have this conversation with my husband.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
I don't know why you wouldn't have that conversation with your husband, but maybe...
Denalee Bell:
Well, sometimes, it's girl talks.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly. But...
Denalee Bell:
He doesn't want to hear.
Jean Schilling:
... even then, we still ask the husband, okay, you're in the space. Sorry, dude. Right?
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. You have to hear.
Jean Schilling:
You're sitting around talking to four women, you're the guy. So, here's the question.
Denalee Bell:
Exactly.
Jean Schilling:
And we need their input.
Denalee Bell:
We do.
Jean Schilling:
I mean, because, again, any singular group or whatever can come into this sort of crazy.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
Right? And that's the whole thing, is that we continually, as women, without the reflection of masculinity, can... It just becomes so toxic. Right? Because it's constantly the same thing. Like this is the other reason why I had to leave the hairdresser. Everybody gossiped. I mean, it was the worst salon...
Denalee Bell:
That's interesting.
Jean Schilling:
... I had ever been in.
Denalee Bell:
Not like Steel Magnolias gossiping.
Jean Schilling:
No. It's terrible. It was terrible. And everybody was on the verge of divorce and...
Denalee Bell:
Oh...
Jean Schilling:
I mean, it was awful. And to sit in that...
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Jean Schilling:
... because it's a room full of women...
Denalee Bell:
Negative energy.
Jean Schilling:
Right. And they're just having that conversation with every woman that comes in and you're like, there's one thing with processing through conversation, but there's another where you're like, ohhh...
Denalee Bell:
So, yeah, I get processing.
Jean Schilling:
Yes, absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
And help.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
And I kind of try to be careful about that and make sure that we all love the same person...
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
... if it's an issue.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Right, right, right.
Denalee Bell:
You know what I mean?
Jean Schilling:
Yeah. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Because it's a difficult... If we're going through something difficult, because we have family stuff that comes up and we kind of all pitch in sometimes.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
And you have to have...
Jean Schilling:
You have to.
Denalee Bell:
... talk about the thing.
Jean Schilling:
Right. But it has to come from the...
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. The place.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
Of the right place.
Jean Schilling:
The love actually from... First, from this compassion, grace, mercy for that person.
Denalee Bell:
Not, can you believe what that boy did again?
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Jean Schilling:
Right. You need-
Denalee Bell:
It's like, okay, how do we help this kid? How do we support him?
Jean Schilling:
Yes. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
But it can't just be your idea. Right? It als, because you are married, it has to have that equal support of your husband who says, okay, well, we are not going in and rescuing them again. But we can do this.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
And you have to agree. And that is...
Denalee Bell:
We do. That's the hard part.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
So, here's the hard part about toxic femininity. We've been told we don't have to listen to him.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah. See, that's...
Denalee Bell:
This was...
Jean Schilling:
I do not agree with that.
Denalee Bell:
I don't either.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
But that's what I did for years.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah. Of course.
Denalee Bell:
And it created a huge problem in our family, because I'm like, okay, so I'm just going to say it. And Trevor, I hope you forgive me. So, we have an older son that my husband has been with since he was two. I did not let him discipline him. That was my role. He would give me input, I'm like, not your kid.
Jean Schilling:
Oh, wow. Okay.
Denalee Bell:
We did, we pay for that.
Jean Schilling:
Oh, man. I'll bet.
Denalee Bell:
We did, my son pay for that.
Jean Schilling:
I'll bet.
Denalee Bell:
My son paid for it.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
I wasn't protecting him, I was hurting him. Because my husband is wise.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
He's wise and logical, and I'm emotional.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. Right.
Denalee Bell:
And I would do... like when your baby's hurt, as a woman, you want to nurture him. But sometimes, you run and do the wrong thing because you want to nurture him.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
And I did every chance I got.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
And we call it codependency?
Jean Schilling:
Yes. It is 100% codependency.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
100%.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. We're going to go save and not make him work through it. And my husband is not codependent.
Jean Schilling:
Not like that. No. Right. Yeah, exactly.
Denalee Bell:
And had I let him stop that behavior, who knows? Who knows?
Jean Schilling:
Right. All the choices maybe could have been different.
Denalee Bell:
But again...
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
... because we have another son who is 24, and we were a unit.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Sometimes, we disagreed, and I would sneak stuff I shouldn't have. Sorry. Because I'm a mama.
Jean Schilling:
Right, exactly.
Denalee Bell:
And...
Jean Schilling:
You're still trying to protect and love and do all the things and... Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
And if dad was too harsh, I'd come in and pick him up.
Jean Schilling:
Yes, exactly. Exactly. He was mean. You're right, he was.
Denalee Bell:
I'd take my husband to the room, "That was really harsh". You need to... I'm like that. Yes, I do. Okay. But it was a different conversation.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Important.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. I didn't realize how important it was. Maybe until the last couple of years down that... My sons are fully grown and they're dealing with life and girlfriends and jobs and...
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
How they see things.
Jean Schilling:
You can see how they're right dealing with it differently.
Denalee Bell:
They are.
Jean Schilling:
Because of... Right.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
The essence.
Denalee Bell:
And they're both coming along and it's good, but it's different.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
It is different.
Jean Schilling:
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
So, again, I guess men are useful.
Jean Schilling:
They are.
Denalee Bell:
For lots of things.
Jean Schilling:
They are. They are. They are.
Denalee Bell:
They protect us.
Jean Schilling:
They do.
Denalee Bell:
They keep us safe. They give us care.
Jean Schilling:
They keep us sane.
Denalee Bell:
And they provide for us. And they want to.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
They do want to.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
And I will tell another story my husband's going to be mad about.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah. Okay.
Denalee Bell:
There was a time in our life when we lost everything. 2008, 2009-ish.
Jean Schilling:
Oh, gosh. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
He was a builder in that time. And we had over speculated. So, I started making more money. When I started making more money than him, the dynamics changed, right, in our home.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah. Right.
Denalee Bell:
And it wasn't good.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah. Right.
Denalee Bell:
It wasn't good
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
We have a German shepherd out here that we're babysitting, it's his job to guard the house.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
It's his job. He doesn't feel like he has a purpose if we don't let him guard the house.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
My husband has always provided for our family. He wanted to feel that that was his purpose. And it came out, right? He wanted to be okay with it because this is the world we live in, right? Women should be able to make money. They should be able to do things. And I would... But it wasn't. It wasn't okay with him. Deep down inside...
Jean Schilling:
Right. Yeah. Right.
Denalee Bell:
... he wanted to provide. He wants to be the provider. He wants my money to be extra.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
You know?
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
And why is that so wrong?
Jean Schilling:
Right. I mean...
Denalee Bell:
Why is that wrong?
Jean Schilling:
It isn't.
Denalee Bell:
Why are the women in an opera over this? I'm probably going to get flamed for this.
Jean Schilling:
Right. You probably will get flamed for this.
Denalee Bell:
I mean, I just...
Jean Schilling:
I think that there's a theory behind it, that if you are criticized for that, or... Maybe, too... What's the word? I don't know. Too... like big for your britches. That's a terrible way to say it.
Denalee Bell:
Oh, yeah.
Jean Schilling:
But you know what I mean. If you become more important, then, it shifts the flow from your nurturing being from a place of generosity...
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Jean Schilling:
... and it becomes... he's seeing it as he becomes then more dependent. Right?
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Jean Schilling:
Which, I think in general, again, if you're a hundred percent in relationship, a hundred percent, you're this, and a hundred percent, you're this. And there are moments where this hundred percent is just giving more because that's how it works.
Denalee Bell:
And like now, I think it would be different.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
I think it would be more like, we're just flowing through this, honey.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Yes. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
But he was in his 30s.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Right?
Jean Schilling:
Exactly. Yes.
Denalee Bell:
However old.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
I don't know.
Jean Schilling:
Ish.
Denalee Bell:
I can't... I told you about the math problem. Right? I couldn't make it through statistics and probability. So...
Jean Schilling:
Right, exactly. So, again, that comes to emotional maturity, right?
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Jean Schilling:
Exactly. So, as you are going through life, everybody gets to a point in their age where they just stop giving.
Denalee Bell:
Caring about any of it.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly. But until-
Denalee Bell:
Except the women in the matriarchy.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
Who are upset...
Jean Schilling:
They think... Right.
Denalee Bell:
They would be mad at my husband for this.
Jean Schilling:
Yes, they would.
Denalee Bell:
That he would have a feeling.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
And he's not allowed to feel that way.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Which is unfortunate, because he is 100%...
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
... how do you heal? You have to let go, and some part of it...
Denalee Bell:
Go through it.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
We have to...
Jean Schilling:
Just move through it in a more grace-filled or gentle way, because it all is going to suck.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Jean Schilling:
Most of the time.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Jean Schilling:
Especially now, even more so.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Jean Schilling:
Right?
Denalee Bell:
Try to find some moments of good.
Jean Schilling:
Right, exactly.
Denalee Bell:
Are we focusing on beating people up?
Jean Schilling:
Right. You got to hold onto the beauty of the connection. Like we're all wired for connection anyway.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
I think it just pits us against each other in a way that's... It's just so unfortunate and unnecessary.
Denalee Bell:
It is. So, just my opinion that my man should be a provider, that... I've actually just walked into traditional values recently. I love them.
Jean Schilling:
Right? They're fantastic.
Denalee Bell:
Like why?
Jean Schilling:
They're fantastic.
Denalee Bell:
My husband and I are...
Jean Schilling:
Why did we ever get rid of this? Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Oh my gosh, my husband and I are a team. Our finances are together for the first time in decades. We went with a couple of decades without this.
Jean Schilling:
I really think this is part of the other piece of COVID that really helps people understand the value of the family unit. Where, before, everybody's just constantly going here and there, and here you had COVID, all of a sudden, everybody got shoved into the same house, the same... You couldn't do anything in a way. But it also gave you an opportunity to really appreciate the relationship and the family that you have.
And some of us, right, don't have that.
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Jean Schilling:
There's nothing wrong with that. There are some people who realized how toxic and awful their family was, and they were just trying to get through the abuses and all of the... And again-
Denalee Bell:
And it was too overwhelming.
Jean Schilling:
It was too overwhelming. And yes, please, get out of that.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. Nobody...
Jean Schilling:
Because you don't need that.
Denalee Bell:
No.
Jean Schilling:
Nobody needs that. But it also drove people into, oh, we could save this if we did these things. Right?
Denalee Bell:
Mm-hmm.
Jean Schilling:
And really, the willingness of trying to develop the relationships. I mean, people... I think it was... I think 50% of America went into therapy during COVID, which I thought was-
Denalee Bell:
Was probably a gift.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
It's probably a gift.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
We could all use therapy.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. Yes.
Jean Schilling:
I mean, we're all... Oh my gosh. The list of things that we all have gone through.
Denalee Bell:
There was a lot of good things that happened...
Jean Schilling:
And even in our generation-
Denalee Bell:
... that I could just now say were good.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Last year wasn't great. But...
Jean Schilling:
Right. But this is the whole thing...
Denalee Bell:
Yes. There's reflection.
Jean Schilling:
... that our generation has gone through, I mean, more events, catastrophic events than any generation really before us.
Denalee Bell:
Interesting.
Jean Schilling:
That you're like, oh my gosh. No wonder why we all need therapy.
Denalee Bell:
Really...
Jean Schilling:
Just go. Right.
Denalee Bell:
And I think that's part of this toxicity coming out.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
When I'm toxic, it's because I'm not dealing with something.
Jean Schilling:
Right, exactly.
Denalee Bell:
Right?
Jean Schilling:
100%.
Denalee Bell:
And I think-
Jean Schilling:
You're trying to deal with it yourself.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
And, that, I think is the toxicity of...
Denalee Bell:
I don't know if I'm even trying to deal with it.
Jean Schilling:
Well, okay.
Denalee Bell:
Because, sometimes, I try to ignore it.
Jean Schilling:
But again...
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
... you are doing it, right?
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
And then, the way you create and continue that is to isolate. Right?
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
And you're like, no, no, no. You are not alone.
Denalee Bell:
So, what I did to my husband this morning was, I get really frustrated with him because he had an opinion about how we were going to set up the podcast, and he was in the middle of something. And it was irritating him how slow I was moving about the setup. He knew I had a lot to do and so did I, but I was needing him to move forward with his life out of here.
Jean Schilling:
Bye-bye.
Denalee Bell:
And I got really frustrated, and I'm like, you have no right to tell me what to do. You need to not be in this. And I'm doing my whole thing, being a toxic woman. And it reminded me of a study that was done.
Jean Schilling:
I love it. I love it.
Denalee Bell:
He would never talk to me like that.
Jean Schilling:
Ooh.
Denalee Bell:
So, women are more likely to be verbally, emotionally, and psychologically abusive than men.
Jean Schilling:
100%. Yes, I agree with that.
Denalee Bell:
And we don't know we're doing that.
Jean Schilling:
No.
Denalee Bell:
So, I just saw this study recently.
Jean Schilling:
Oh, interesting.
Denalee Bell:
And I thought... I was thinking, how many things have I said like when I'm angry or mad, that he would never say to me.
Jean Schilling:
Oh, wow.
Denalee Bell:
Women... And we get away with it.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Why?
Jean Schilling:
That's a good question.
Denalee Bell:
It's not fair.
Jean Schilling:
It is not fair.
Denalee Bell:
It's not fair.
Jean Schilling:
It's not fair.
Denalee Bell:
And you see...
Jean Schilling:
I think part of the reason we get away with it is because the level of their strength is different than ours.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. Because they can punch us?
Jean Schilling:
Right. And it would really-
Denalee Bell:
We don't want them to.
Jean Schilling:
No. Thank you.
Denalee Bell:
I do not have an abuse of...
Jean Schilling:
Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
Because it's almost like I'm pushing him to do it sometimes...
Jean Schilling:
Right. Instigating.
Denalee Bell:
... but I mean, he would never do it. Right.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
Because... I mean, he's a strong man, but he's also wise. Like he's not...
Jean Schilling:
Right. He's also gentle.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Jean Schilling:
He isn't going to just...
Denalee Bell:
Yeah, you know him.
Jean Schilling:
Right. I'm like, he's not going to just go...
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jean Schilling:
Well...
Denalee Bell:
I mean...
Jean Schilling:
There's a few times.
Denalee Bell:
I mean, he could. He could.
Jean Schilling:
You'd be like, listen...
Denalee Bell:
I mean, you push anyone too far... I think I'm past the pushing the... You know what I mean?
Jean Schilling:
Exactly. He's at this point going...
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. No.
Jean Schilling:
Okay, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
He treats me like I'm a yapping Yorkie. There's no coincidence I have a yapping Yorkie. Right?
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Again, we all get to an age where we're like, that just doesn't...
Jean Schilling:
It just doesn't bother.
Denalee Bell:
She's going to be fine in five minutes. I'm not going to engage.
Jean Schilling:
Wise decision.
Denalee Bell:
It is. But I just don't see... I mean, like, so his counterpart, he's not toxic.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
So, I'm far more toxic than him.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
So we can't let him watch this. He doesn't know. He doesn't know. He doesn't know.
Jean Schilling:
Okay. It'll be our secret. Don't worry. It'll be all good.
Denalee Bell:
We can't educate the man.
Jean Schilling:
Of knowing really who is toxic, yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Exactly. He gets blamed for all the stuff.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Okay.
Denalee Bell:
I think we kind of talked about this, this is on the list, the lack of empowerment.
Jean Schilling:
Oh...
Denalee Bell:
This is kind what I thought feminism was about when I was younger, was like, we want to empower and lift up women. And I think that's great.
Jean Schilling:
I think it is, too.
Denalee Bell:
I have no problem with that. But that's not what they really do.
Jean Schilling:
No. That isn't what they do.
Denalee Bell:
It isn't. Because it's like-
Jean Schilling:
The ideology, I think, is what they promote and not the femininity.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. Exactly.
Jean Schilling:
They're not promoting femininity in the way that it's feminine.
Denalee Bell:
No.
Jean Schilling:
They're promoting the idea that we should be equal. We should blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Denalee Bell:
Unless, you don't agree with us.
Jean Schilling:
Unless you don't. And then, you're totally...
Denalee Bell:
Then, you're like a man.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
Then, you're as worthless as a man now.
Jean Schilling:
Yes, exactly. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
So maybe that's what I'm angry about.
Jean Schilling:
Okay.
Denalee Bell:
Maybe it's not-
Jean Schilling:
I mean, that's a fair to bring out.
Denalee Bell:
Maybe it's not just my boys, but I do worry about my boys, too. You know what I mean?
Jean Schilling:
Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
I worry about them having children and what they're surrounded with and the conversations that they are afraid to have.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
When they get into relationships, I don't want them to be like, I can't say this. And you know, my husband has done that, where I can just see him just shutting down like I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to say anything. I mean, years ago.
Jean Schilling:
Oh, right.
Denalee Bell:
But maybe... Oh, that's all lie. Maybe like last year. Okay. Maybe last month. It was this morning. Yeah. All right. As recently as this morning.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
They just got to shut down. And not going to voice his opinion because he doesn't want to deal with a maniac.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
And I don't want my boys to deal with a woman like me.
Jean Schilling:
No. No. Well, I mean, this is the truth of it.
Denalee Bell:
They get to have a voice.
Jean Schilling:
They get to have a voice. You absolutely have a voice.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
The difference is that, again, men, they're not going to because they know not to really go in... I mean, the healthy ones just do it in a way that they don't have to use all the words or all of the... They just are like-
Denalee Bell:
There's a presence. Like my husband's a presence.
Jean Schilling:
Yes, exactly. And that is what we want.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
Really, that's what we want.
Denalee Bell:
It's true. It's true.
Jean Schilling:
We want this presence of it, so that we can just stop doing this whole ping pong...
Denalee Bell:
Yes. Just know, I am not a shrill maniac all the time, people.
Jean Schilling:
Well...
Denalee Bell:
Just when somebody's coming over and my house is not clean.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
There are moments...
Jean Schilling:
Everybody does that.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
I mean... Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
I got family coming into town soon and all I can think is I need a new house. I'll just move in somewhere else temporarily. It'll be fine and they'll never know, and it will be okay.
Denalee Bell:
It's an Airbnb.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah. Right.
Denalee Bell:
That's a great business funnel.
Jean Schilling:
Probably, why they have Airbnb.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. Exactly. I live here. So, there's obviously a narrative, an agenda that tells us that the patriarchy is bad and we have to rise up against them and beat them up.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Right?
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
I don't like it.
Jean Schilling:
That's how it feels. Yes.
Denalee Bell:
I don't like it.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
And I don't think a lot of people like it.
Jean Schilling:
No.
Denalee Bell:
I think we have to figure out a way to fight it in a lovely way, in a feminine way.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. Yes.
Denalee Bell:
In a not tear the people who believe this stuff down way, because, I mean, I do believe that somebody probably formed some of these ideas has probably been hurt by a man. I've been hurt by a man and had these ideas that all men were bad, until all of the men in my life became good.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
Now, I see it differently.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
But you can see where that would happen. So...
Jean Schilling:
Right. Okay. So just one thing, you became good with you.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
And therefore, the men in your life, you could actually see the good in them.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
That's the difference.
Denalee Bell:
That's true, because I didn't really trade them all out.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
There's some truth there. And you've seen the process, so I'm going to believe you. I'm going to believe you on that.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
I feel like part of this is knowing our identity.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
What you just basically said, right?
Jean Schilling:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
And this is what you help people with?
Jean Schilling:
Yeah. 100%. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
And so, thank you, by the way.
Jean Schilling:
You're welcome. You're welcome.
Denalee Bell:
And I think if you know who you are, then, you're not going to be a victim.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
You're not going to be as offended. You find a way. You know what I mean?
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
We're smart. Women are smart.
Jean Schilling:
We're so smart.
Denalee Bell:
We can find a way.
Jean Schilling:
Right. I mean, again, this is really the essence and beauty of women, is that none of us think alike in any way, shape, or form.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
And that really is what makes it incredible, because we all get to share that one unique thing that we do, right? And really, the healing comes when you start to reveal that to yourself. Like who are you? What is it that you want? How do you want to do it? And really, moving through emotions and embodiment of the thing or your own essence to be more feminine, to be more gentle.
Denalee Bell:
To know what your essence is.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
And that's part of knowing, I guess, right? Identity.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. Exactly. And really, allow those pieces of yourself to come out in a way that is safe for you to share them, to soften towards other people who see you differently than you are wanting to be for yourself. Right? Because again, there's a lot of conflict in that.
But again, knowing your own essence, yes, that's how I was, but this is really who I want to be. And how do you help yourself and other people be really in this moment as themselves?
Denalee Bell:
And I think we have to heal our trauma.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. 100%. Right. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Right. And we live in a broken hurting world, so regardless of how tough you are, nobody gets out unscathed.
Jean Schilling:
No. Right. Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
We all get hurt.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Because we're dealing with humans.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
And some do it on accident, some do it on purpose, and it's what it is.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
So, I think we have to learn to deal with our trauma.
Jean Schilling:
We do. We do. Heal thyself. Healer, heal thyself.
Denalee Bell:
So that we can heal others.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Heal yourself, so you can hear and see truth.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Because it's really hard to see truth when you're in dysfunction.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
You can't see it.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
It's like a chaotic whirlwind.
Jean Schilling:
Right. This is the beauty of truth. The truth... How do you know that it's true? That is a big question. How do you know what's true?
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
Well, because that truth applies to me as a woman. It applies to them as men. It applies to every plant, tree, dogs, horses. That's how it's true when it absolutely affects everything the same way. Truth.
Denalee Bell:
There is a truth.
Jean Schilling:
There is a truth.
Denalee Bell:
And your truth doesn't necessarily make it a truth.
Jean Schilling:
No. That's you believing what your perceived idea is. That's your belief system. But that doesn't necessarily always mean it's based on actual truth. Truth is when it applies to everybody exactly the same.
Denalee Bell:
I like that. I like that. I really like that.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
I think, too, how we heal this thing with men, because I think they're going to need to heal from this, this toxic masculinity.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
And the patriarchy, these movies, social media, media that seems to be completely against men right now.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Like there's going to be some healing need. And I think we nurture men. I think we have to-
Jean Schilling:
We, 100%, need to start nurturing...
Denalee Bell:
We have to nurture men...
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
... and encouraging them to be themselves and speak out.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
It's okay.
Jean Schilling:
In the community. Right. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
You get to speak out... With my husband, you get to speak. I will shut my mouth and let you speak.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Like I have to practice this.
Jean Schilling:
Mm-hmm.
Denalee Bell:
Because, apparently, you guys can see, I like to talk a lot. I'm a bit of a talker.
Jean Schilling:
Who knew?
Denalee Bell:
So there's that. This movement against men is so organized.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
And I didn't see it coming.
Jean Schilling:
No.
Denalee Bell:
I didn't see it being as destructive.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
That we all clearly, I mean, see it now. We all clearly see it, but many clearly see the actual destruction of this, of the family union, which is the strongest institution that we have.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
And there's proof and studies behind that. If you guys want, I'm happy to give them to you.
I think appreciating that we're not the same. We have to appreciate we're not the same.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Yeah. We have to replace the value on the fact that women are like this, and men behave like this.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. And even though-
Jean Schilling:
And even though it's different.
Denalee Bell:
And you said something to me yesterday. There's a masculine and feminine energy in both of us.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
And we can honor that as well.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
But what does that even mean? Because heard that a lot, and you explained to me, what does it mean to have, that I have both masculine and feminine.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Well, okay, so you look at it through Lipton and melatonin, right?
Denalee Bell:
Mm-hmm.
Jean Schilling:
Or not...
Denalee Bell:
Lipton Tea?
Jean Schilling:
Oh my gosh. Okay. Cortisol and melatonin. That's how we're going to look at it. Okay. So, cortisol is everything that you need for the action to happen. Right? Melatonin is everything that you need to slow you down and put you to sleep. So, cortisol will wake you up, it gets you through the day. I mean, and there's something in that-
Denalee Bell:
That's what puts you in a fight or flight?
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly. So you need that aspect of life to be awake and active, right? And then-
Denalee Bell:
And reactive.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
When you need to be.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly. And then, melatonin does everything else. It's very sedative. It helps you slow down. It helps you recognize that sleep and rest are necessary. So, if you could look at one as a masculine and one as a feminine, then, again, you're looking at... You're seeing how-
Denalee Bell:
You need both.
Jean Schilling:
You do need both. We have both.
Denalee Bell:
Everyone needs both. But you need more than one or the other sometimes.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly. Sometimes, you do, like when you're sick or...
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Jean Schilling:
... under a lot of stress, you don't want more cortisol, you want more melatonin. Like how do you come down and increase your melatonin to relax and to rest and get all the fluid and everything that happens when you're very cortisol-heightened, right? You just end up holding onto everything, and you don't want to do that. You want to relax and soften, and let all those fluids go. And the only way to do that is to have increased melatonin, which comes from rest, and your vagus nerve and really being able to settle both. But we are, in essence, both. Because you have to have both.
You need to be awake and be able to do all the things that you're going to need to do in a day. Plus, you also need rest and sleep. And that's the easiest way to show it, is that.
Denalee Bell:
Compare it? Okay.
Jean Schilling:
We have two hormones that drive our life as a human. That's really... It's important to recognize that you are always both.
Denalee Bell:
So, I liked something you said about love. Because I think we need to learn what love actually is. Love is not sexual context. It's not giving you all of my time and energy.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Love is not a lot of things that we think it is. Love is not saying I love you on social media.
Jean Schilling:
No.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Jean Schilling:
No.
Denalee Bell:
I mean, it's nice if that happens.
Jean Schilling:
Sure.
Denalee Bell:
I'm not saying... But some people feel like this is enough.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
And then, they don't get the real love. The patience, the kindness, the compassionate, that all of the other things that we get, that we learn, the forgiveness, the selflessness.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Right?
Jean Schilling:
So, one of my favorite... Because love is a multifaceted word and expression. It becomes that... In its nature, it just is more than one thing. You cannot label it love. Love is. Right? It is everything.
So, for me, the best example of what love is is water. When you step into water, no matter what that water is, it will hold you. It will make space for you. It doesn't care how much you weigh. It doesn't care what color your hair is, what color your eyes, how much money you make, what job you do, it just makes room for you.
And that, to me, is the beauty of love. You can be anything in it. And so, again, the deeper you move into water, the scarier it gets, right? The deeper you go, the more trusting you have to be. That's the other part. So, in water, if you cannot relax... It's actually more dangerous for you to not relax.
Because in water, relaxing will help you be buoyant. Stress drives you into sinking. Right? And more people drown because they can't relax. The beauty of it is you just... If you have that-
Denalee Bell:
In the relationships as well, right?
Jean Schilling:
Right. Exactly. 100%. Right. The more that you have been with this person, the more anxiety you really start to uncover and reveal, because they're seeing you more. There's more of you to be seen, right? And with depth, that just happens that way. But if you can relax into it, you can stay on the surface. You can really have the safety of going deep.
Denalee Bell:
You can float or swim.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
And the water doesn't leave.
Jean Schilling:
And the water doesn't leave.
Denalee Bell:
I love it.
Jean Schilling:
It doesn't go anywhere. It just holds you.
Denalee Bell:
I love it.
Jean Schilling:
And that is, really, I think what makes love so beautiful is it makes room for everybody, and just, it's so gentle and it can really, really be so healing and nurturing if you let it.
Denalee Bell:
Okay. So, we need to heal our trauma, know who we are, love more.
Jean Schilling:
Yep.
Denalee Bell:
Now, there's a transactional thing I think we could do.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Okay.
Denalee Bell:
I think we have to stop funding these things...
Jean Schilling:
Oh, sure.
Denalee Bell:
... that promote this narrative and this agenda.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
We've got to stop giving them our dollars.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
We have to. We have to.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
There's a reason there's an economy in it.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
There's a reason they get clicks.
Jean Schilling:
Right. And it isn't serving everybody. And what we really need to do and increase is the being of service to everybody.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Yes. And we don't have to stomp on others to do that.
Jean Schilling:
No. In order to do that.
Denalee Bell:
Because that's not love do.
Jean Schilling:
No. Right.
Denalee Bell:
That's not love.
Jean Schilling:
Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
I am going to love you if you disagree with everything I said on here.
Jean Schilling:
Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
And we do have those that do. Right? Right? And I think another thing... This is maybe from my Christian point of view, is the best thing that we can do as Christians is to testify our experiences.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Like tell people our experiences.
Jean Schilling:
Share more.
Denalee Bell:
I'm going to share with people more that my man is good.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Like share good stories.
Jean Schilling:
Right, exactly. Tell people more about-
Denalee Bell:
Instead of what your girlfriends are complaining about... We're going to share that he is good, he is a good man. And I love those things... I love that he's strong. I love that he cares. I love all of those... You know what, if it goes down, my man would fight for me.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
I love that.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Is that wrong? No.
Jean Schilling:
No.
Denalee Bell:
No.
Jean Schilling:
No.
Denalee Bell:
No.
Jean Schilling:
Absolutely not.
Denalee Bell:
If he thought I was being hurt, he would protect me like a tiger.
Jean Schilling:
Right. You want that.
Denalee Bell:
And I want that.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. You want that.
Denalee Bell:
I do not want that beating out of my men or my sons...
Jean Schilling:
Or your sons.
Denalee Bell:
Or my nephews or anyone.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Right. Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
Maybe a little bit out of that German Shepherd...
Jean Schilling:
Right. Yeah. But that is part of the process, too, right?
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
You just have to accept.
Denalee Bell:
And this is so funny, the more we are just relaxed about it, the less assertive the German Shepherd is.
Jean Schilling:
Exactly. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
But I also think we need to speak up within our friend circles, within our communities when men are being mistreated like this. Also, when women, and I'm not just saying... We just happen to be talking about feminine...
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
... toxicity. I think we've beat up on men enough is why we haven't covered it a lot, but there's toxic men out there, we get it.
Jean Schilling:
Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
That we can speak up against those.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
And we don't have to say that all men are that way...
Jean Schilling:
No.
Denalee Bell:
... and not all women are this way.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Right?
Jean Schilling:
Agreed. Yeah, agreed.
Denalee Bell:
Because I just don't see you bullying somebody in the fifth or sixth grade, I just don't see it.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Right.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
So, I think that's really... I mean, I don't know of any other way that we change this, other than... I think women as a collective who feel like we do, to some extent. I mean, we didn't agree on everything...
Jean Schilling:
No. That's okay.
Denalee Bell:
... but we do believe men are being mistreated. Right?
Jean Schilling:
Yeah. 100%.
Denalee Bell:
I think they're being mistreated as a whole.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
By society.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
Okay.
Jean Schilling:
Because they're being undervalued right now.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
And you're like, no, there is a value in what they've done, what they've put forth for us. But they've...
Denalee Bell:
That they've created.
Jean Schilling:
... paved the way.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
We just need to take the reins in a way that is more feminine feminine than masculine feminine.
Denalee Bell:
There are many men...
Jean Schilling:
There's so many.
Denalee Bell:
... who paved the way for... even the feminist movement.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Who are standing up, saying, yes, equal pay.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
100%.
Denalee Bell:
So, let's not vilify everyone.
Jean Schilling:
No. Right, exactly. It is not about just our ideas being right. We just want to make more awareness or the fact that what is happening, we all don't agree with.
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Jean Schilling:
I don't want it to look that way. I don't want it to be detrimental to the men.
Denalee Bell:
It's not love.
Jean Schilling:
No, it's not love.
Denalee Bell:
It feels like hate.
Jean Schilling:
It does. But, again, I too would soften that a little bit more, but it's...
Denalee Bell:
Well, I'm going to have to show you the TikTok videos.
Jean Schilling:
This is okay.
Denalee Bell:
Well, [inaudible 00:41:03] on TikTok.
Jean Schilling:
Sorry, I don't watch TikTok for a reason. That's not where I get my news or any information. Just saying.
Denalee Bell:
I don't. I don't know if there's news there.
Jean Schilling:
My niece gets her news from TikTok.
Denalee Bell:
Oh, I didn't know.
Jean Schilling:
I was like...
Denalee Bell:
I just saw these.
Jean Schilling:
Are you double checking it?
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. I just... Yeah, yeah, do double. But I mean, where would you get news?
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
I mean, it probably is the most accurate, honestly.
Jean Schilling:
I don't know if there's-
Denalee Bell:
There's probably some truth to that.
Jean Schilling:
I don't know if there's...
Denalee Bell:
There's probably some truth to that.
Yeah. Because... Yeah. So, anything you want to add?
Jean Schilling:
I think that the pieces that we really, as women in general, is to really start appreciating our own essence. Whatever that is for you, whether you are a little more assertive or aggressive or... That's fine. There's nothing-
Denalee Bell:
Are you talking to me?
Jean Schilling:
No. I have a friend who...
Denalee Bell:
I'm just joking. I'm just joking.
Jean Schilling:
... her loving is much more aggressive than I am. I am like all...
Denalee Bell:
You're soft.
Jean Schilling:
Puppies and sweet, furry... Yes. All of that. Just gentle. That doesn't mean that her loving the way she does it is any less valuable than the way I do it.
Denalee Bell:
Right. It's her.
Jean Schilling:
It's her.
Denalee Bell:
Right.
Jean Schilling:
And I just think we all need to start embodying that more and just find a way to be more comfortable with sharing who you are with more people in an authentic, honest way. I think we all can really benefit more from that. Press 5% more.
Denalee Bell:
I really liked what you said at the beginning, that you weren't so easily offended by your sister, that you gave her some space.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
And the people who don't agree with us or who were on their journey, give them space.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Give them space, too.
Jean Schilling:
Please. Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Let them speak. Let them to be heard.
Jean Schilling:
Right.
Denalee Bell:
But you need to be heard, too. We get to be heard, too.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Absolutely.
Denalee Bell:
When it's appropriate. And I think that's the problem.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Without the charge...
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
... of the need to be heard, right?
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
There is a charge that women do when we need to be heard. And you're like, no, just wait. Don't speak from your need to be heard. Speak when you're in a place where it isn't necessary if you're heard right then or not.
Denalee Bell:
Almost every time when I speak from that place, it's in a more high-tension environment.
Jean Schilling:
Right. Right. It doesn't go well.
Denalee Bell:
And I'm not going to be heard anymore.
Jean Schilling:
Right, exactly.
Denalee Bell:
They're not going to be-
Jean Schilling:
They're not going to hear you.
Denalee Bell:
There's no words that are going to be received. It's just going to antagonize the situation more.
Jean Schilling:
Exactly. And then, you're more upset and they're more upset and there's more pain and you're like, why? Why?
Denalee Bell:
So, I think we need a podcast on how to get along with people.
Jean Schilling:
That's great. I agree.
Denalee Bell:
All right.
Jean Schilling:
So, before we close and finish up, I want you to just kind of check in. Feel where you are in your body. Notice what's different. Take a deep breath, and settle, and then, share.
Denalee Bell:
So, I think when I first started this, I've been kind of worked up about this topic, and I was a little angry about it. So I feel like I got it out.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
I got it out.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. Good.
Denalee Bell:
You really helped me see kind of... I knew you would because you always do, the softer side. I come in with a hard edge and you always file me down. So...
Jean Schilling:
You're welcome.
Denalee Bell:
... I do appreciate that. There's somewhat of just a relief and almost like the tension's gone out of it.
Jean Schilling:
Oh good.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Jean Schilling:
Yay. Right.
Denalee Bell:
Because you could feel that, right?
Jean Schilling:
Yes. Yes. Exactly.
Denalee Bell:
When you came in.
Jean Schilling:
And that's the whole... Right. And that really, again, is the beauty of being in our own essence and really appreciating it.
Denalee Bell:
And aware.
Jean Schilling:
And taking the time to become more connected and conscious of it.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah. With even ourselves.
Jean Schilling:
Right. We need all of us, all of us to be seen, to be heard, to be felt, to be shared.
Denalee Bell:
Yes.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah. Again, the beauty of love is really... It's about connection and how we honor ourself. And then, through that honor, make space for other people to show up and be able to honor themselves.
Denalee Bell:
Yeah.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah. I think that's the beauty of the feminine, really.
Denalee Bell:
That is the beauty of the feminine.
Jean Schilling:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
Thank you so much for joining us.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. Thank you for having me.
Denalee Bell:
And for sharing your wisdom and insights.
Jean Schilling:
Oh, thank you. Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
And I'll put a link when you get your program ready.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
It's a six-week program that's coming up called Reveal.
Jean Schilling:
Yeah.
Denalee Bell:
I'm really excited about it.
Jean Schilling:
Me, too. Mm-hmm.
Denalee Bell:
I'm excited to do it.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
Denalee Bell:
And I want to thank you guys for joining us again.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. Thank you.
Denalee Bell:
I am so grateful. Please, like and subscribe. It helps us with the algorithms. I know it's a pain in the butt that everyone asks, but help us out.
Jean Schilling:
Yes.
Denalee Bell:
Thank you so much.
Jean Schilling:
Yes. Thank you.