Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Tactical Wealth is the podcast built to empower the military and veteran community to take control of their financial future.
From navigating the military to civilian life transition, to launching businesses, growing your income, and building long-term wealth, each episode brings you real stories and actionable insights from those who’ve gone from boots on the ground to building lasting wealth.
Hosted by Kaj Larsen, former Navy SEAL, award-winning journalist, and mission-driven entrepreneur. Kaj successfully co-founded a financial technology company and sold the company in 2024. The podcast features hard truth conversations with successful veteran entrepreneurs, CEOs, and top financial experts.
Whether you're still in uniform or already charting your next chapter, this podcast gives you the tactical tools to lead with impact in your finances and beyond. Let’s get tactical.
Tactical Wealth is a Gebbia Media production, brought to you by Siebert.Valor, a military-focused initiative from Siebert Financial. The Tactical Wealth podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. The views expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Siebert Financial. This podcast does not constitute investment advice, an offer to sell, or a solicitation to buy any securities. Past performance is not indicative of future results. Listeners should consult a qualified financial professional before making any investment decisions.
For more information and disclosures, please visit siebert.com/disclosures.
00:00:04:06 - 00:00:35:15
Unknown
I wouldn't be where I am today without having been a student and a mentor of yours. The skills that I got in my training and service in the Shire directly helped me be a successful entrepreneur. And so the tactical advice is at the very beginning have the hard conversations. The second most important piece of technical advice is.
00:00:35:17 - 00:00:57:16
Unknown
Some people wait for opportunity. Others fight for it. Welcome to tactical well, the show where discipline, service and real world experience become pathways to financial power. I'm your host, Kaj Larsen. On each episode, we bring you the stories and the wisdom of those who have gone from boots on the ground to successful careers, from military to wealth and how they've done it.
00:00:57:21 - 00:01:08:12
Unknown
So you can apply those insights to your own mission and your own life. This is tactical wealth, from military to money.
00:01:08:14 - 00:01:31:08
Unknown
Welcome to season two of Tactical Wealth. I am so stoked. Amped. Fired up. You can tell I'm excited because all my California lingo and jargon is coming. Today's guest was an officer in the elite Israeli Defense Forces. I had hit 13, which is the Israeli equivalent of the US Navy Seals. Really, really extraordinary, unique story there.
00:01:31:08 - 00:01:55:08
Unknown
We'll get into it. He's also a two time exited founder. He is an advisor and a board member. Version. Bravo, which is an incubator accelerator type organization that I actually went through myself. He is, strategic mentor to a ton of startups throughout the startup ecosystem and most importantly, my good friend. There you go on.
00:01:55:09 - 00:02:18:00
Unknown
Welcome to the show. Thank you guys. It's an honor to be here. Thank you for having me. Super stoked to have you. You have had an incredible impact in my career and trajectory. And you are really like, on the speed dial of, like, life for me. If I have something anywhere within startup landing that I need it within venture within investing.
00:02:18:02 - 00:02:41:16
Unknown
You are definitely in my fab five of people to go to, so I'm really excited to to dig into your story, and to have you help our audience learn so many of the things that you've taught me. So thanks for being here, man. Thank you. And I appreciate it. And for me, the most rewarding thing is to see folks like yourself, who I've known for a few years now and coming to this beautiful office here in downtown, in Miami Beach and succeeding.
00:02:41:18 - 00:02:59:13
Unknown
That's that's that's all the reward I need. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're at the early stages of, like, trying to make Miami, like, some kind of hub for this stuff, you know? So we got a lot of, you know, good things to sell. The beach is a block away. Great. Well, look, I want people to understand your background because your path is so unique.
00:02:59:13 - 00:03:16:20
Unknown
And you're actually the first officer that we've had from a foreign military, on the show. So, but you're American. So, tell us, tell us how you came to service. Yeah. So I grew up in New York. My father is Israeli, so he served in the IDF and moved to the US. After his service.
00:03:16:21 - 00:03:39:09
Unknown
Met my mom, who's born and raised in Brooklyn. I grew up in a very Zionist family. Also very patriotic family. Love America, love Israel. But those forces were always very much around me growing up. My grandfather was very involved in the Zionist movement. When, when when he was growing up, he also escaped the Holocaust, from Germany.
00:03:39:11 - 00:03:58:19
Unknown
My, obviously my father's family, many of my, many of my aunts and uncles served in the IDF. So there was always kind of a piece of me that knew I wanted to serve. I was interested in serving. In 2006, I was visiting in Israel during the summer when the Second Lebanon War broke out. My cousin had actually moved from the US to serve in the IDF.
00:03:58:21 - 00:04:17:02
Unknown
So I was sitting with him on a beach when he got a phone call from his officer saying, hey, get to base that we're going to war, because, some soldiers had just been kidnaped and it was pretty clear what what was going to, going to happen. So being there in the summer and seeing, you know, everyone, my contemporaries, everyone my age going off to fight in a war had a huge impact on me.
00:04:17:02 - 00:04:31:12
Unknown
And basically that was when I decided, okay, I'm going to finish my undergraduate degree because I was in the middle of my, my degree to George Washington and move to Israel to to join the IDF. Yeah. And was there ever a point where you were like, considering a fork in the road, like, how do I serve in the American military?
00:04:31:12 - 00:04:52:20
Unknown
Do I serve in the IDF? Was that attention? Yeah, very much so. Because again, I grew up in the US, I love the US. I still live here. I lived in Israel for ten years, but, I'm a dual citizen. I value the, the, the principles and of both countries very much. Ultimately I felt, you know, that that 2006 summer had a big impact on me.
00:04:52:20 - 00:05:13:04
Unknown
And, and I felt that I could have a little bit more of a direct influence and impact serving in Israel. And this was also, you know, 2006, 2000, seven, 2008 US was in, you know, kind of a different kind of war, different kind of war things. I was also living in DC from 2004 to 2008. So there was a lot of, everything going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.
00:05:13:05 - 00:05:32:19
Unknown
Ultimately I made the decision to go to to Israel. Yeah. Amazing. Now, for people who aren't familiar, when you go over to Israel to serve, there are American, a good number of Jewish Americans who who do that process, but they often end up, I think they call them lone soldiers. Is that right? Yeah. If you if your family's not living in Israel, there's also lone soldiers who don't necessarily or have like, family trouble.
00:05:32:21 - 00:05:51:23
Unknown
So they'll call them, they fall into that same category. Right, right. And but usually they go into a unit that like and no disrespect to anybody service but like less of a front line unit. Some of them a you didn't actually speak Hebrew right when you went over. I had a decent level of Hebrew. Like if two Israelis were speaking to each other, I probably wouldn't be able to follow.
00:05:51:23 - 00:06:11:07
Unknown
But I picked it up pretty quickly. Right. But, you know, Americans who want to serve, they who have, like, Jewish heritage or are welcome, they go over they they serve honorably, but they're often in support roles. You did something really unique, right? I would say it's not necessarily so. I wouldn't say Special Forces was definitely a new thing around.
00:06:11:07 - 00:06:29:00
Unknown
When I, when I entered the IDF and there were some trailblazers there, like my cousin who I mentioned, who ended up in Special forces, the paratroopers. But actually a lot of the lone soldiers do end up in frontline roles. They just go. They'll go to, like, infantry units or special conventional conventional units, because that's where the military also pushes them.
00:06:29:00 - 00:06:48:15
Unknown
They can they can, they can help them more. They can give them certain services that maybe their needs are met a little bit better. They discourage you from going to Special Forces because, you know, one of the one of the benefits of a lone soldiers that you're supposed to be able to go home for one month out of every year and in the shade that they're like, you're not going home for a month is ridiculous.
00:06:48:17 - 00:07:05:15
Unknown
So they kind of discourage you from going to those units where, where you don't have the ability to get those needs met. But they're certainly, you know, the people who move to Israel to serve in the IDF are typically the most motivated folks. And so they're certainly on the on the frontlines. You saw that and everything going on since October 7th in the war in Gaza.
00:07:05:15 - 00:07:28:10
Unknown
And the other wars, Lebanon, Iran, for the first not for the first time, really, but we saw a lot of the casualties were lone soldiers, hostages who were lone soldiers. You Don Alexander, who was released a few months ago thanks to the efforts by the US and President Trump to to release him. And, of course, everyone in Israel, he was a lone soldier, born and raised in Jersey.
00:07:28:12 - 00:07:48:01
Unknown
And you were actually, weren't you, the first person to serve as an officer and the first American to serve as an officer in the United? I don't think they keep records of that. I don't know of others. So I don't want to say like 100%. But as you're among, you know, let's say you're among the first. So that's a wild experience.
00:07:48:01 - 00:08:09:18
Unknown
So you're American, you show up in this special forces unit, you have to go through selection. Your version of Bud's just like I went through, right. What was that experience like? It was so it was tough. Probably for different. Growing up in New York, the cold didn't bother me as much as the Israelis. But what bothered me was, the things that I struggled with was actually, I was a lot older than everyone.
00:08:09:19 - 00:08:28:04
Unknown
I know in the Seal teams, you get a kind of diversity of age groups. And, now they're they're trying to encourage more younger, guys to go in. But in Israel, it's everyone's 18. There's a few exceptions. Like, maybe someone did, a gap year or something. I was 22 when I started training in the shade, so I was older than my officers.
00:08:28:06 - 00:08:45:08
Unknown
And so that was always kind of a weird thing for me, you know, like, I had just lived by myself for four years in college. I feel like I had a little bit of life experience. It's funny saying that now, thinking back to, like, the 22 year old version of myself. But my, my teammates, you know, they didn't know how to do their own laundry.
00:08:45:10 - 00:09:02:01
Unknown
They didn't know how to like what a credit card. What, like they did. And then no concept of what, you know, real life was other than being in the military. So that was, that was always tough for me is kind of just, being kind of an outsider. At all times. Right? You're an outsider already.
00:09:02:01 - 00:09:23:07
Unknown
You're an outsider in terms of your age group. I always thought going through, like, a Special Forces selection that some level of maturity is actually helpful. Just in terms of of surviving and making it, you're sort of less scared. You have, like, a little more emotional body armor to get through, really, really tough training.
00:09:23:10 - 00:09:41:23
Unknown
So for people, just last thing on, on that part of the experience for people who don't understand, just give me a top line on the a lot of people have probably had never even heard of Israeli Navy Seals, like, give me a top line on the difference in the similarities between US, US Navy Seals and the Israeli Navy Seals.
00:09:42:01 - 00:10:01:17
Unknown
It's I would say it's very similar from the training perspective. In fact, there's a lot of collaboration between the Seals and the shared there to learn from each other. And both units have actually changed aspects of their training to, to, to improve based on lessons learned from each other. Well, I remember when we went to the base together, when we went to that base, it was like coming home, right?
00:10:01:17 - 00:10:21:00
Unknown
Like even the way the the fins are organized, you know, I was like, oh, that's it. You know, I'm back in Coronado. It's awesome. We talk a lot. We'll get to version Bravo, I'm sure, but the the aspect of why the the Israelis, the Americans, the Seals always clicked so well together. It's like, well, there's something about cold water that just brings people together.
00:10:21:00 - 00:10:47:02
Unknown
It's like if you've if you've been put through that you there's something between you that will always, live on bonding loves misery. Yeah. But I think the, the main difference and this is a difference between the US and Israel in general, is that is the way you serve. Your time and overall. And this is a debate that I constantly would have with both my U.S. and Israeli friends about which service is more difficult.
00:10:47:04 - 00:11:06:09
Unknown
As far as, like the US way of deploying for 4 or 6, sometimes longer months and being completely away from your home, from your family, or the Israeli model, if you will, which is you got an operation and then you come home to sleep in your own bed, and then maybe the next night you go on another operation.
00:11:06:11 - 00:11:22:21
Unknown
You could be fighting in a war. The war is only a few miles from from your home. And so you literally come out for the weekend, go spend time with your family and have to go back the next week. And I think there's there's no definitive answer. Personally, I can say that after so I did two months of the reserves.
00:11:22:21 - 00:11:44:05
Unknown
After October 7th, I was in Israel, and for the first time I really got that aspect as I came from Florida, flew to Israel, was away from my family for two months. I didn't have kids or a wife when I served, in, in my, active duty. It was really the most difficult part was two months of not seeing my kids like my daughter when I left was two months old.
00:11:44:07 - 00:12:00:04
Unknown
Came back. I'd missed half her life at that point. Yeah. So, I don't know how the US guys do that, to be honest. That's probably why there's so many issues with, you know, divorce rates are so high. Yeah, we do it not. Well exactly. Yeah. Because it is it is trying on the families. It's like one of the hardest parts of military service.
00:12:00:08 - 00:12:22:02
Unknown
Yeah. So that's to me is the biggest, the biggest difference between us and Israel Seals and shared that as far as, like the culture and everything. It's it's very similar. The jokes are the same, the writing on each other is the same. And of course, the cold water is the same. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. No, I actually remember from our time together on, on the base at, we can, we can say where the bases.
00:12:22:02 - 00:12:58:05
Unknown
We say that at least. Right. Yeah. When we were at the Israeli Navy Seal base, yeah. You guys have a, a level of, secrecy and classification that exceeds even ours. So I'm always like, am I, I always tiptoe around it. But yeah, when we were on the base together, I, I remember having that conversation, and the idea of fighting and then being home that same night and the psychological burden and the psychological weight that that carries is, is fundamentally different than the way we fight, which is deployed overseas in some faraway land.
00:12:58:11 - 00:13:18:00
Unknown
You know, it again, there's there's pluses and minuses, because in Israel, it's also a reminder for what you're fighting for, you know, every day, on the other hand, it's it is, you know, you hear the stories now, especially the last two years, about fathers, mothers also who were out in Gaza or elsewhere. And they're just completely distant.
00:13:18:01 - 00:13:35:19
Unknown
You know, they come home to their kids, their kids don't recognize them, and especially in such a protracted long war that that's going to cause a lot of challenges in the future for Israel. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that is something we definitely know about is the long term deleterious effects of being in sustained combat over not months, but years and decades.
00:13:35:19 - 00:13:58:11
Unknown
So, okay, switching, continuing on with your service. I know you served as a platoon commander, and you did six years total, right? On active duty, six years total. My my command role was, it was really an R&D role, right? So it was like a product manager for our advanced warfare team, and we would build, we would get the operational demand for something we needed to do.
00:13:58:11 - 00:14:17:07
Unknown
And I would either in-house figure out a way to take technology we already had, or go source it elsewhere to then use it in the field and then teach the guys after me how to how to use it, which is really interesting. And do you think that that actual role in job within the service became part of the springboard for your transition into entrepreneurship?
00:14:17:09 - 00:14:32:02
Unknown
Absolutely. I like I call it a product manager role because that I didn't realize this till later, but that's what I was doing. And, you know, obviously didn't use that term when I was I was in the service. But later on, I realized that essentially what I was doing was product management, getting a demand from a customer.
00:14:32:02 - 00:15:14:07
Unknown
In this case, the customer was partially myself. But my, you know, teammates, or the, you know, the rest of the planning team for an operation and translating that into technical requirements and then going out and sourcing a piece of technology or a product or a weapon that could accomplish the, the, the operational demand. Can you give us like a non classified example of like a technology that sort of or a type of technology that would come in that then you would either request or evaluate or modify and then try and put into operation, no, I know there's, there's simple things, like a specific weapon.
00:15:14:09 - 00:15:34:16
Unknown
This will be a funny one. There was an operation. Actually, I probably shouldn't say because that telling you what it is, we'll give away where we went. But I have a different one. We actually used, lidar, to map a beach on a very significant operation. And that was, you know, nobody knew what ladder was back in the day.
00:15:34:16 - 00:15:53:09
Unknown
This was before autonomous driving was using lidar. It's laser direction and range finding, right? Yeah. It shoots out light beams. And based on the reflection of those light beams, you can map, out. Essentially it's what like Google Waymo cars, they use LiDAR primarily to sense their surroundings. And you could also map out, you know, the terrain of a beach, for example.
00:15:53:09 - 00:16:09:12
Unknown
So, there was an operation you needed to land on a beach. You might go ahead of time to map out the beach, see where you know where you can land a, a boat. Yeah. Yeah. In the old days, we did it with a LED light, and we swam out there. We drop like it out and would take some pictures.
00:16:09:12 - 00:16:25:07
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. So if you're going to a place where you really don't know what's out there and you can't, you can't map an entire beach in in the amount of darkness, you know, at the time of darkness in one night, then maybe use a lighter. And so that was an example of something that we, you know, creatively came up with to use to, solve, operational demand.
00:16:25:11 - 00:16:50:10
Unknown
Right. And you had to, like, basically take it from the civilian world and then repurpose it for the military application. Right. Amazing, amazing. Okay. And were there a specific set of military skills that you developed at this command that you felt primed you for success in entrepreneurial ism? I think it was a combination of my. So I studied mechanical and aerospace engineering before my service.
00:16:50:12 - 00:17:07:21
Unknown
Funny anecdotal story. When I went to the try out for the unit, we call it a kibosh. They actually pulled me out. The unit has a psychologist that lives your time. It's your time. So at the time, it wasn't your time he had just finished. But at the time, whoever the psychologist was, I just. I got to like, break.
00:17:07:21 - 00:17:38:03
Unknown
Nobody will appreciate this. Probably outside of us, but yo, Tom is essentially like the Yoda of of the shy tech community. He was. He was first an operator and then he became a psychologist. And he is this like, like ageless guy. He's probably young, but because I think of him as Yoda, I think of him as like this hundred year old warrior who then became the command psychologist and like, helped all of the younger operators like us be emotionally prepared for the realities of combat.
00:17:38:06 - 00:17:56:05
Unknown
And he's so full of wisdom. Yeah, he's my he's my life spirit animal. I drive with them all the time. Yeah. But he. Anyway, that. So I got pulled out by the unit psychologist. You said you just finished a four year aerospace engineering degree. What the hell are you doing here? I'm like, is there a problem? Can I just go back to suffering on the beach, please?
00:17:56:07 - 00:18:20:13
Unknown
But the the. So my aerospace engineering degree, kind of that engineering mindset, the scientific method of having to experiment and try things. And that was very much the same mindset in my R&D role, which is, hey, if we're going to go take a piece of technology out or we're going to go change our operating, procedures because we think we can with this new piece of technology.
00:18:20:15 - 00:18:40:23
Unknown
You know, penetrate a, a radar system. We better test, you know, very robustly and make sure that that's the case because we're putting our, our lives on the line by doing that. So that kind of mindset of test, iterate, make sure, confirm, don't let you know. You just want to run forward and let your cognitive biases drive.
00:18:40:23 - 00:18:59:22
Unknown
You know, you got to you got to really make sure that what you're planning on doing is going to work. And so that method applies very much to the startup world. You know, in version Brava, we talk a lot about treating your startup, like it's a scientific experiment. So you have a hypothesis. This is what I think the gap in the market is.
00:19:00:00 - 00:19:18:08
Unknown
I have a hypothesis for for how I'm going to solve that. And I need to go test it. And at the beginning, you're just asking people and talking to them. And then eventually you are actually creating a minimum viable product. And then you're you're doing a soft launch and then you're trying to gather feedback. This is all the scientific method, hypothesis test, iterate, hypothesis, test, iterate.
00:19:18:09 - 00:19:44:13
Unknown
And trying to actually prove yourself wrong not necessarily prove yourself right right, right. Amazing. So you complete your six years of service. How was your transition out of military service? So it, relatively smooth. And I think this is another difference between the US and Israel is that in Israel, you're kind of still in it and surrounded by it.
00:19:44:15 - 00:20:04:05
Unknown
I did a lot of reserves my first few years. So, you know, I was still kind of back and forth between tethered to the community. Your friends are all the folks you served with. They're all around you. So you still kind of have that anchor, if you will, to kind of fall back on you don't feel completely thrown out of it.
00:20:04:07 - 00:20:37:11
Unknown
But there's other aspects, like, for me, I did my MBA right after my service, and I actually looked at that like that would be a kind of year off for me. You know? Yeah. But, you know, you and I have talked about this, but I think, some kind of graduate school work or degree work, if you don't have your undergraduate degree, is the best soft landing at a military service, not just because of the knowledge gained, but because you increase your social circle or your network, you know, so much and your diversity of thought and opinion because the military can be insular and I think shy tech can be very insular,
00:20:37:11 - 00:20:57:23
Unknown
right? Yeah. So that that for me was kind of a soft landing. And, I mean, I jumped right in. We started our first exo technologies, our first company, with three of three co-founders other than me. The two of them were in the MBA program with me and we started that company before we were even halfway done with the MBA.
00:20:57:23 - 00:21:16:03
Unknown
It was a one year full time MBA, and so I kind of jump right back into it. But there were there were challenges with working with people who didn't have the same standards that I did for myself. That was probably the biggest problem that I had was learning to, work with people who hadn't served in such an intense environment.
00:21:16:05 - 00:21:31:01
Unknown
And, you know, when someone says, hey, you know, I can't can't do this tonight because I have to do XYZ being like, what do you mean you can't do this tonight? Like it needs to get done. Just do it. That was that was a challenge. But luckily I had co-founders who really helped me, and guided me.
00:21:31:06 - 00:21:55:12
Unknown
Adam Weiner, I don't think you met him, but he's very involved now with version. Bravo. My partner for what we're doing with the transition, was a big influence on me and helping kind of, pull me out of my show, I. I did Officer Shell. I can say going back to more recent events, that coming back home after, my reserve duty after October 7th, that was a much tougher transition.
00:21:55:12 - 00:22:15:16
Unknown
And I think I got to experience a little bit more of what many of the US folks do because I went from Israel operating in Gaza to being in Boca Raton, Florida, like overnight. And that was a shock. It really, really was. And it took me it took me a few months to really kind of get my groove back.
00:22:15:18 - 00:22:38:09
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, I, I get it. And I have my own parallels with that. Like coming back from Ukraine. I had a similar experience because, you know, in the service they have these decompression periods, right? You come back from overseas, you go to Hawaii for a week with the team or whatever. But when I went to Ukraine, just like right back into the civilian world and, yeah.
00:22:38:09 - 00:22:59:15
Unknown
And it is it, it can be it can be shocking what made you though. So when you're in B-School, what made you decide to go down the path of entrepreneurial ism versus taking a corporate job somewhere? And working for the man? I watch a lot of Shark Tank. Yeah. I so I went to business school.
00:22:59:16 - 00:23:17:20
Unknown
My, my my father's an entrepreneur. He had a ton of different businesses. And so when I finished the military, I was like, you know what, I want to go to business school because I feel like that's one part of my world that I really have very little experience in and knowledge in. And I figured if my dad did it for so many years, I probably could be good at it.
00:23:17:22 - 00:23:42:17
Unknown
So, that's why I decided to go to business school. And the program that I chose was specifically focused on innovation and entrepreneurship and actually encouraged you go work for a startup, go start a startup and do it in the program if you want. And so, that was kind of just the area that I felt would be better for me is working for myself, working on my own, as opposed to going to work for a big company.
00:23:42:19 - 00:24:17:22
Unknown
Yeah. And I want to get into this more, but I want to really get your opinion on it. I do think that the special operations community is inherently entrepreneurial. There's something about the personality makeup of people who are attracted. I don't know how much nature nurture it is. There's something about the personality makeup of people who go Navy Seals, you know, Green Berets, PJs, that they then have a hard time morally plug and playing into a traditional corporate culture that they do have this spirit of entrepreneurial ism baked into them.
00:24:17:22 - 00:24:53:14
Unknown
Is that been your experience as well? I mean, that's that's the core thesis of everything I do right now, basically, is that, I very much I again, I, I only realize this later on, in my career, but when I first, when I, the skills that I got in my training and service in the it did. But it's not limited to just the Shire that it's really any, any military role directly helped me be a successful entrepreneur, whether it's learning how to do risk management and risk analysis and of course, leadership and being gritty and not giving up all those things are the obvious ones.
00:24:53:14 - 00:25:09:17
Unknown
But like decision making under pressure, these are things you do on a daily basis. You have to do, you know, cost benefit analysis and decide you go this way or this way. I mean, am I going to if I plan this operation, are we going to be here or here? And you look at the risks associated with every single one of those decisions.
00:25:09:17 - 00:25:31:22
Unknown
And you also have to plan, okay. What happens when things go wrong? And how do I how do I, recover from them? That is a core part of being an entrepreneur. And so I think that being a special operator, especially, you, you, you're trained in those skills that maybe don't seem like they are relevant for a startup environment or business environment, but they very much are.
00:25:32:00 - 00:25:58:21
Unknown
There's more recognition of that today, I would say, especially with the rise of, defense tech. Look, I obviously agree with that thesis completely. At the same time, I also believe that, you know, nothing is black and white. We live in the gray, especially in the special operations community. We live in the gray. But I, I also believe that there are a series of learned habits and behaviors from the special operations community that can be an impediment to good entrepreneurial wisdom.
00:25:59:02 - 00:26:22:16
Unknown
Right? And one of those is when you're in the Seal, teams like the the number one thing that gets you granted admission into this elite club is the ability to never ring the bell. You never, ever ring the bell, you never quit. And I think that gives us a mentality of drive, drive, drive and not knowing when to quit.
00:26:22:16 - 00:26:47:17
Unknown
And sometimes not in combat, not in buds, right? But in the business world, knowing when to say when is actually a skill. And some of us don't have it. Yeah, it's a big, so like nobody's perfect, right. And so everyone has their advantages and disadvantages. And with entrepreneurship, I think that you've highlighted probably the biggest disadvantage, especially, special operators.
00:26:47:19 - 00:27:07:02
Unknown
What I try and what we try and do inversion Bravo is reframe that and say, listen, you know, don't quit, but make sure you're analyzing the right data and making the right decisions to keep going. So I talk about the scientific process. Let the let the what the customers are saying. Let what you're, you know, you're, what the data is saying.
00:27:07:04 - 00:27:24:10
Unknown
Guide your decisions. So don't give up. Just if you have to shift or pivot, do that. But it is certainly something that they need to be made aware of so that you can make sure that you're not just running straight into a brick wall with no way of, getting out of it. Because in some ways, that is our cognitive bias.
00:27:24:10 - 00:27:46:05
Unknown
And one of like the good principles of early stage entrepreneurship is the ability to pivot quickly. Right? And not just, you know, believe in your idea. So much that you, you, you go down with the ship. Well, we also try and get to the guys as early as possible. So they're not, you know, they're not necessarily completely bought in on the path that they're that they're already going on.
00:27:46:05 - 00:28:20:13
Unknown
You know, if you if you can I've advised dozens, if not hundreds of startups at this point. And there's a very clear, you know, relationship between how annoying and hard my job is as an early stage advisor with like, how far along the process they are, because if they've already decided this is the solution that we're building, trying to get them to, you know, go back and do the customer discovery properly and, and build the right product for the right market is so much harder because even if even if it's subconscious, like they're bought in on doing it, what it is they're doing, and we're working with a lot of special operators so that,
00:28:20:13 - 00:28:37:19
Unknown
you know, that that we're stubborn. Yeah. That, that that makes it even more difficult. But if you get to them early enough and you kind of show them this process in how to go through it properly, then hopefully once they set that, you know, stubborn path of them, there's no chance I'm giving up on this. They're at least headed in more or less the right direction.
00:28:37:19 - 00:28:58:00
Unknown
Right compass direction. Yeah, I like that. I really want to talk about version Bravo. But real quickly, you've you've built two companies. The first, the first company you built was the the Kubernetes company, or that was the second, first company that was actually the third. The second one. So the first and second were were related.
00:28:58:00 - 00:29:19:15
Unknown
They were both GPS technology companies. The second one was a spin off of the, of the first company. So Exo, which was the first company we sold to Lear Corporation, big automotive tier one. And then we had a spin off of that company for non automotive use cases, which we also sold to Super Pedestrian, which was a micromobility or scooter company last mile transportation.
00:29:19:15 - 00:29:46:23
Unknown
Yeah. And then the third company was so severe which was, cloud, Kubernetes. So a cloud, a cloud. That's how, you know, like, I didn't like that company very much. Don't put this in the podcast. I didn't even know what it was. I remember we were sitting up there. I was like an early stage entrepreneur nerd, new to the tech world, and you're like, oh, yeah, you know, I'm building my current company here, you know, is this Kubernetes?
00:29:46:23 - 00:30:13:18
Unknown
Like, you guys know what Kubernetes are? And I was like, oh yeah. Who doesn't? Yeah. No. Yeah. The third company was Sucedio, which was a, cloud. I don't even remember. It's crazy. What the hell is a Kubernetes? Kubernetes? It's like it's like a it's a cloud up. It's not the operating system, but essentially it's a, it's a software that helps, direct traffic for, for cloud environments.
00:30:13:19 - 00:30:38:08
Unknown
Okay. And our products. So Silvio, which was a third company, was a predictive troubleshooting tool for large cloud environments. Right. And so we, that third company ended up not being successful. We we had some potential acquisition offers, for many reasons, which, you don't have to get into right now, but, in-house reasons plus like, geopolitical reasons.
00:30:38:08 - 00:30:56:12
Unknown
So half our team was in Ukraine or Russia and the other half was in Israel. So that made things difficult. You know, you're back to back years having multiple wars break out. But that's not you know, it well, but there is something interesting there, that one I'm packing that I want to talk about version Bravo. But I mean, you're already a two time successful exited founder.
00:30:56:13 - 00:31:22:07
Unknown
You do a third startup. You know, in general, you're your probability of failure of your first startup is, like, unbelievably high, you know, 90% or something, right? You're probability of. And then it decreases with each subsequent startup. But in some ways you got a successful first startup, successful second startup. But the, past performance was not a good predictor of your third company.
00:31:22:07 - 00:31:49:09
Unknown
Is that just because nobody bats a thousand or this was an outlier? I think nobody bats a thousand. I think, you know, I obviously did a lot of thinking after the company shut down about what led to it. And I could blame everyone and, you know, all the problems in the wars. And but ultimately, I think that, I and I think this speaks to why special another reason why special operators make good entrepreneurs the culture of debrief and self-assessment.
00:31:49:09 - 00:32:17:17
Unknown
And, you know, a relentless desire to improve. I spent a lot of time thinking, what could I have done better? What were the decisions that I made that would have led the company to succeed? I feel like, I learned way more from the third company, which failed than from the previous two. And, ultimately it came down to decisions that and and and things that I would advise that I would have at the time advised any other startup founder not to do, and I did them.
00:32:17:19 - 00:32:33:21
Unknown
And so the biggest lesson I learned was you can make the same mistakes again, like you're not just because you just had two successful companies doesn't mean that you're guaranteed to be successful. And so if there's these little red flags or little things in your head that are saying, hey, maybe you know, this is a problem, this is a problem, this is a problem.
00:32:33:23 - 00:32:57:02
Unknown
Don't just think you can overcome them. And that was really a lot of, a lot of red flags that I saw going into Sucedio that I ignored or told myself, I'll fix it. It'll be fine. Yeah. Well, like I even think about I was even thinking about one small thing you advised me when I was going through my acquisition and selling my company about culture fit, and I was like, oh, that's just one of those things, like people say, you know?
00:32:57:02 - 00:33:31:02
Unknown
And then like, I ignored it. And it speaks to this. Operator problem of both the problem and the promise of operators turned entrepreneurs is that we have a strong mind and like how you break your own will is is almost unique. I mean, maybe other entrepreneurs share that commonality, but that that is the operator's challenge. Also, as operators, you're when you're training, when you're training and you eventually, you know, serve and deploy and go on operate, you're you're not taught to think of those like softer aspects and how they're going to impact you.
00:33:31:02 - 00:34:00:05
Unknown
It's like you turn all that off when you're an operator. How am I going to feel in this position or how, you know, that's not a consideration? Where, you know, bigger life things and when your family gets involved and you have business partners, like, you have to start to really consider some of those softer aspects of, of life, whether you are going to wake up every day and want to be in that position, if you're going to feel like you're progressing in your career and if the compensation is enough for you, like these are just considerations that you don't have really, as an operator.
00:34:00:07 - 00:34:22:13
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. Speaking of feeling. So I think that's a good way to talk about version Bravo, because at some point you have been a successful entrepreneur. And then did you have the feeling that you wanted to give back it? Was that really the genesis of version Bravo or was it was it more a business play and a business pipeline?
00:34:22:15 - 00:34:43:21
Unknown
No. The the the feeling or the the initial idea. At least for me. And this was a group of people that all kind of came together at the same time and organizations. But for me at least after selling XO, I was at Lear and I started, you know, entrepreneurs from especially from the shed that would reach out to me and say, hey, I'm starting a company.
00:34:43:23 - 00:35:03:23
Unknown
Can you give me some advice? Can you help here? There? But I also had a lot of friends who I thought would have been more successful or would have become entrepreneurs or done more that I just kind of saw, not really doing much after their service. This problems, I think, probably more prominent in the US where guys kind of lose their way after after their service.
00:35:04:01 - 00:35:29:17
Unknown
There's probably a correlation to time and intensity. So I was going to say, but for me, I wanted to create I had the realization that the skill, like I said earlier, the skills and that I got in training and service really helped me as an entrepreneur. And again, like that realization came after I sold the company, and I wanted to create a program that would help others like me have that same realization.
00:35:29:18 - 00:35:55:06
Unknown
And so I went to the organization that I worked with very closely, which is American Friends of Israeli Navy Seals. They they run a lot of the post service programing for, the show at that in Israel and said, I think we should start a program that's dedicated to entrepreneurship. There's a lot of other programs, PTSD, life mentorship, some really amazing programs that are now expanded beyond, just the sheer tech community because they've been so successful.
00:35:55:08 - 00:36:19:01
Unknown
But the chairman, Eric Zoller, thought it was a great idea. And that set in motion, basically the, the bringing together of a lot of different folks, including, us CEOs. Yeah. How did how did that idea come about to pair us? Well, maybe give like a top line about what version Bravo is and then like how to the idea come together to pair U.S. Navy Seals and Israeli Navy Seals.
00:36:19:03 - 00:36:54:16
Unknown
So Virgin Bravo's in Entrepreneurship program ten week program that starts in Israel, finishes in the US, and it is training in not only how to become an entrepreneur, but how to utilize the skills you already have to become entrepreneur for special operators. It started as just the show it and and the seals, and the idea was that the US in Israel such close allies, they work together in service, especially the Seals and shared that there's a lot of cross-training and why not work together post service, since there's still a lot that we can learn from each other, whether it's, you know, the US, the access to capital in networks and, you know, operational
00:36:54:16 - 00:37:19:20
Unknown
excellence and knowing how to, like, do something very, very well. And Israel Hotspur and which for those who don't know, it just means like, don't listen to rules, just do what has to be done. The grittiness, Startup Nation mentality. And you, you got to experience it firsthand. But there's really something special when you bring those two communities together where everyone gets to, you know, you talk, you talked in some of your previous podcasts about building teams with diversity of thought.
00:37:19:20 - 00:37:44:20
Unknown
And, I've always found and I'm an embodiment of this to some extent as my background as a dual citizen. But like when you bring that US operational excellence together with the Israeli startup mentality, or Hotspur, if you will, that bring some real magic in the startup world? Yeah, amazing. Amazing. And where is version Bravo at now? So version Bravo is going through some, some big transitions, I would say.
00:37:44:20 - 00:38:12:00
Unknown
And so actually I'm going to stop that. I want to go. Okay, I'll come back to that question. But before we for you to that, what I want to actually say is, how okay, so at this point you've run four cohorts of version Bravo, right? So almost getting close to, 60, 60 different operators, companies going through what is is incubator accelerator correct or semi correct?
00:38:12:00 - 00:38:53:21
Unknown
I would call it a entrepreneurship program. That entrepreneurship program. Okay. Cool. It's changing. We'll like. Yeah. Well yeah, we'll talk about that. But so in your capacity both as you know, the director of version Bravo where you've helped, you know, you've helped build, you've helped seal veteran entrepreneurs, build dozens and dozens of companies. And then also in your your current role as sort of strategic mentorship and, an investor yourself, what are some of the tactical takeaways where what are some of the, the, the general things that you've learned by observing hundreds of entrepreneurs, building companies, the, the like?
00:38:53:21 - 00:39:01:19
Unknown
What would be your top three tactical takeaways for veterans and entrepreneurship?
00:39:01:21 - 00:39:35:11
Unknown
Let me, let me let me say this. I think that the, biggest the two biggest things that kill companies in the early stages are founding team dynamics and a lack of real customer demand. So it's going to be a long way about to get to answer your question. But the way I think, first of all, veterans and special operators especially have skills that help them combat both of those things extremely well.
00:39:35:13 - 00:39:53:13
Unknown
So on the founding team dynamics, I think it's pretty obvious, we work in teams nonstop. We know how to operate in teams. We don't let you know. Frustrations go on, on vented. Right. Like, you tell people what you think about them, which is healthy in a lot of ways. And so you're building relation, you know, how to build relationships, you know how to work in very close teams.
00:39:53:15 - 00:40:18:06
Unknown
And so you see less it still happens. I've seen founding teams that, seals even that served together that had, you know, really bad, break ups still happens. But the probability I think is much lower. So, utilizing those skills that you have of team building but actually like really doing it. And so the tactical advice is at the very beginning, have the hard conversations.
00:40:18:06 - 00:40:31:01
Unknown
A lot of founders avoid this, not just veterans, but, many founders don't want to talk about like, okay, well, what's my job going to be? What's that going to look like in three years? Am I going to be CEO or are you going to be CEO? What's the equity split going to be? Should we just do it?
00:40:31:01 - 00:40:49:07
Unknown
Even, should not be even, if I bring a lot more value, if I have experience, if I'm a CEO, co-founder, maybe I should have more equity. What are the you know, what's going to happen if one of us has to leave the company for good or for bad reasons? They just want to quit. Or maybe they had a family emergency and they need to step away.
00:40:49:07 - 00:41:07:06
Unknown
Do they get to keep their equity? There's some of it. Get taken back. These are all things that you need to discuss ahead of time. It's like a like a prenup in a marriage. Yeah. And one step further, not just having the discussion. You need to codify it into the away. Right. And like, take the basic structural, fundamental steps to build a business.
00:41:07:09 - 00:41:28:13
Unknown
But like any a legal document is really just a way to capture an understanding between people and the spirit of the agreement is what's most important. So even if you write this down on a piece of paper, like on a napkin, just the fact that you had to have the conversation anymore, you understand where each person is at, by the way, it may open the door to to understandings that you realize, like, this isn't a good person to, to work with.
00:41:28:15 - 00:41:50:12
Unknown
That will, I think, sort of preempt a lot of the potential pain down the road. So that's like number one, have the hard conversations at the beginning about your partnership with your partners. The second, about the customer demand, this is probably the biggest mistake I see founders make, which is that they, when they go out to ask people, hey, I have this idea.
00:41:50:14 - 00:42:08:03
Unknown
Do you think it's a good idea? Who do they go ask at the beginning. Friends, family, my parents, my brother, my sister. I, like you. Go to the people that are close to you. Because deep down, you probably don't want to hear a negative answer. So not only are you getting bad feedback, too bad sample of data, but you are.
00:42:08:05 - 00:42:27:18
Unknown
But you're you're not asking enough people. You're not asking the right people, like you want to ask the actual customer segment that you're you're if you're, you know, you had your your product, which is targeting veterans and trying to do financial literacy, you should probably ask veterans whether they need this product, right? Not not your friends who didn't serve or people you know, like your friends in finance who've been doing it for 20 years.
00:42:27:20 - 00:42:43:21
Unknown
And I'm overexaggerating to make the point. But a lot of people forget to do that or don't do it properly, or they go in to people, to a friendly audience and say, hey, I'm building this. This is what's going to do. Like, doesn't that sound amazing? And as humans, we want to tell the other person, oh yeah, it sounds great.
00:42:43:23 - 00:43:07:13
Unknown
Now for them. It just it cost them, you know, some breadth to say, yeah, it's amazing for you and may cost you two years of your life to go build something that at the end of the road, nobody actually wants to use or pay for. And so the second most important piece of tactical advice is being very, very diligent and honest about your customer discovery process, not leading the witness, not asking people just to confirm, hey, this is what this is this a good thing to build?
00:43:07:13 - 00:43:33:04
Unknown
But trying to drive part to have a hypothesis and evaluate whether it really holds is this is a product like this, that solving this pain point is really going to be desirable in the market. That still won't guarantee success, but or at least raise the probability. Yeah. And you're trying to achieve ultimately just in the the world of pragmatic advice, you're trying to achieve ultimately this holy grail, which is PFM right?
00:43:33:04 - 00:43:54:12
Unknown
Product market fit, PMF product market fit. If if you don't got that, you don't got a business. And, this is another I know it's an industry term or whatever, but you need people to buy your shit. Yeah. And you need people. People with founders many times discount. And you're told as a founder you're going to hear know a million times, keep going to hear.
00:43:54:12 - 00:44:28:00
Unknown
Yes. And it's true to some extent. But if when you're talking to potential customers and you're giving them, you know, you're asking them what their problems are, and none of them actually say the problem that you have in mind, then maybe you're working on the wrong problem and being honest with yourself. And so going back to special operators like the culture of debriefing and being willing to like, really look at yourself, and your team and what are the challenges and, you know, be willing to open like the scary doors, that is incredibly important in the early stages to make sure that you're not, you know, you're not just you're not missing anything.
00:44:28:01 - 00:44:47:12
Unknown
And when you see real customer demand, authentic demand from a, from a customer segment, you know it. And having worked with a lot of startups now, I've seen companies that find that very early on and others that don't, you know it when you see it. And if nobody's telling you they want the product, like you should really be listening to that.
00:44:47:14 - 00:45:07:06
Unknown
You know, your time is your most valuable asset. And resource, and you do not want to spend three, 4 or 5 years working on something that at the end of the day, nobody wants. You'll learn a lot. But how many shots on goal do you really get? Yeah. Got it, got it. And now tell me about what's going on with the evolution of version.
00:45:07:06 - 00:45:38:02
Unknown
Bravo, because you're continuing just to scale and expand even further. Yeah. So version Bravo is is actually splitting into two programs. So one of the I would say take it back version, Bravo is evolving because we've recognized that we can do a lot more to serve a wider group of people, specifically still in the special operations or at least the veteran community, outside of just the Seals in the shared it.
00:45:38:04 - 00:46:04:05
Unknown
So we're creating. So first of all, we're opening up, enrollment or eligibility to all combat veterans from the US and Israel, which is a big a big step forward for us y combat veterans. I think people would want to know combat veterans specifically. It's not a out of disrespect to anyone else's service. We know what our value proposition is as an organization.
00:46:04:05 - 00:46:30:20
Unknown
So talking about customer discovery and knowing what you do well, our staff, a lot of the people that come as mentors to the program, they're combat veterans themselves. There's there is an aspect of, you know, the recovery after service and the intensity of the service and the trust that you have with other people, which is it's a big thing to overcome when you've served in an intense environment and to come back and who you work with is is a big challenge a lot of times.
00:46:30:22 - 00:46:52:08
Unknown
So we're building a community and a program that addresses the gaps that that community has, and also knows how to enhance the skills they already have. It doesn't mean that others can't be great entrepreneurs, and means we know what we're good at and what we're here to do, and so we're focusing on that community. Great, great. So okay, so there's the two aspects of the evolution of version Bravo.
00:46:52:08 - 00:47:17:02
Unknown
So the first aspect is that we're opening it up to additional units. And then the second aspect is that we're actually creating an earlier stage program. So if there was one problem, in version Bravo, I would say is that we had companies, companies like startups, founders who started companies that were more advanced. They were, you know, VC type companies looking high potential, high growth companies.
00:47:17:04 - 00:47:39:15
Unknown
And then we had, other entrepreneurs with more lifestyle businesses, which, by the way, nothing wrong with that. Like those can actually be much more successful businesses. I don't know if I should say that. I'm not 100% sure it's true, but I heard the statistic that the highest average salary or the highest average earning profession in the US is used car dealership owner.
00:47:39:16 - 00:48:04:14
Unknown
Yeah. So, thanks to military bases, you know, okay, so it doesn't mean, you know, as an entrepreneur, it doesn't mean you have to start, you know, the the next Facebook or Google, you could be very, very successful starting a restaurant chain or a, a personal training, you know, service. Those are all great. But the the what you need in order to succeed in those types of business is very different.
00:48:04:14 - 00:48:29:05
Unknown
And we want to make sure that we are providing the most value that we can to every single person who comes through our program. That is our guiding light and guiding principle is provide value over. You know, I got into back and forth with, actually, I'm not going to say it, but. Our goal is always to provide value to each person who comes through the program.
00:48:29:07 - 00:48:49:13
Unknown
And so the program will now have an entrepreneurship school, which is online. It's a ten week program that takes takes the founders through the actual process of ideation, customer discovery, starting a company at the end of it. You work in groups with with people from the program, and you actually present an idea at the end to real life investors and entrepreneurs.
00:48:49:15 - 00:49:11:14
Unknown
So it's showing them, if you're somebody who's just generally interested in entrepreneurship, you want to get a little bit of a taste of it so that you can then decide if you want to go start a company. That's the program for you. And if you already have a company and a team or you're looking, you know, you're just getting started and you have a real business idea that's been fleshed out and you've done a little bit of validation, but you're looking to get it off the ground.
00:49:11:14 - 00:49:31:14
Unknown
Then version Bravo accelerator is for you. And on that front, we're actually going to start to invest in the companies and, and take equity in the companies as investment. So it'll fit like a typical accelerator model, like Y Combinator or Techstars or any of the others, where we think we can provide a lot more value that way, too.
00:49:31:20 - 00:49:56:19
Unknown
And so you'll, you'll provide a filter for companies, you'll select companies, you'll put them through your accelerator, and you'll actually give an investment on the on the back side of that, you're raising a fund, and you'll actually seed those companies. Correct. So we'll, we'll invest actually coming into the program. So they'll get, a check coming into the program and then a check at the end of the program, potentially based on their success during the program.
00:49:56:21 - 00:50:21:19
Unknown
Cool. And how are you raising capital for the fund, and how is that process? Well, it's very interesting, actually, as a as someone who went from, entrepreneur, startup founder, I've been an angel investor, for, for 7 or 8 years now, made a made probably 11 or 12 angel investments on my own. But raising a fund, you get to really learn how a VC works.
00:50:21:21 - 00:51:00:03
Unknown
And we don't have time on this podcast to go into, like, all the economic, like the economic model. But it's something that I highly recommend that every startup founder really dig into. I actually just wrote, an article on this. I haven't I haven't published it yet, but I'm planning on doing it soon. When I was running Exo, my co-founders and I got a meeting with, with, Kleiner Perkins, which, you know, the VC, at the time, you know, after Sequoia is like top VC and, we met with, with one of the partners and, you know, prepared for a very long time and pitching that great pitch.
00:51:00:05 - 00:51:14:22
Unknown
And the guy looks at me and he's one of the senior partners there, says, you know, I think you're going to sell your company for a couple hundred million dollars, and it's just not interesting to us. I'm like dumbfounded. I'm like, wait, what are we doing? Is life changing for me? I'm like, I was doing the math.
00:51:14:22 - 00:51:36:07
Unknown
Carry the two. That's like $50 million in my pocket. Like, I'll take it. It's A3X return for them or A5X, and they don't care. They want a thousand x. And if you look at if you actually learn how a VC model works, you realize that unless unless they're getting 1 or 2 major unicorns, like billion multi-billion dollar, exits, it's not that they'll be very successful if they have that.
00:51:36:07 - 00:51:54:07
Unknown
They're not successful at all. If they don't get those assets. And it of course, it depends on the stage of the font size of the fund. But, that is a something super important for every founder to understand. So you know who to go for, for investment, whether you're relevant for a VC or not. Anyway, back to the original question.
00:51:54:09 - 00:52:14:07
Unknown
It's been very enlightening experience to, to raise the fund. We're looking for a very specific type of LP limited partner or investor, one that, you know, we call them, the Patriots and Zionist, basically, or patriotic Zionist. There's a lot of those two, but we're looking for people who believe in special operators and veterans as entrepreneurs.
00:52:14:07 - 00:52:33:13
Unknown
And those are the types of folks that we've been speaking to. And we we are, we've got a lot of very interesting and, and, and, high profile investors that are planning on coming in, one that I'm very excited about, that maybe I won't put you in the spotlight. No, actually, you can put me on the spot because.
00:52:33:13 - 00:52:53:22
Unknown
Okay, I buy into your thesis. Not only do I believe in the thesis that special operators, can become great veteran partners, but I'm also a graduate of the program, and, you know, like, we already talked about this. We've never done this before on the podcast, but this is, this is the first it's a new season.
00:52:53:22 - 00:53:22:00
Unknown
It's a new season. And, yeah. So here is, I'm honored to be here's an actual check. I wanted to make one of those giant checks like we were on, like, a bad telethon or something. But, you know, here's my, here's my $50,000 LP investment. It's USAA, of course. You know, so, it's an honor to be an investor in the fund, and, I wouldn't be where I am today without having been an, student and a mentee of yours.
00:53:22:00 - 00:53:54:08
Unknown
So I can't wait, to see you turn my shekels into more shekels. I'm actually at a loss for words. That's unbelievable. Man, I appreciate it. So thank you. And we're going to do good. We're going to we're going to do good with it. I'm 100% certain. Amazing, amazing. I'm super excited. And to be honest, like, for me, as I was saying, like the for you to be able to to write this check and come in and be NLP, it speaks to, to every aspect of what we're trying to do.
00:53:54:08 - 00:54:10:21
Unknown
The fact that you have the ability to write that check, and that part of that is, even if it's a tiny bit, was due to you coming through the program, the fact that you're a veteran yourself, a combat veteran yourself, special operator that wants to participate in this fund, that really means the world to me. Thanks, man.
00:54:11:02 - 00:54:30:22
Unknown
Thanks. That's feel great. All right, we got to wrap this up. This is the fun stuff, okay? All this sappy stuff. See, the operators have fields. We got all the fields. You know? All right, we like to end with this section that we call rapid fire. It's just stream of consciousness. First thing that comes to your mind, we bang it out.
00:54:31:00 - 00:54:37:12
Unknown
And just a couple questions. Best investment you ever made.
00:54:37:14 - 00:55:01:06
Unknown
Best investment was deciding. Was really investing in myself and deciding to bet on myself, as opposed to going to work for a large corporation. So deciding to go and start a company, I think was the best investment I ever made. It's led, you know, it, it started the path that I'm that I'm on today. I feel like Robin Williams at the end of goodwill, I'd take like, oh my God, that's what that's what I always say.
00:55:01:08 - 00:55:26:13
Unknown
Stole my girl, you know. All right. Worst financial mistake. We kind of spoke about it, but I think that the decision to that, you know, following along kind of the same path, the decision to jump into a company. So the third company so CVO, I decided to join slash co-found it when I was just not happy with what I was doing at the time.
00:55:26:15 - 00:55:46:06
Unknown
And that's the wrong reason to start a company. So that cost me, you know, again, like, I learned a lot. And I don't like to say I regret that decision, but three years, that 3 or 4 years that, you know, opportunity cost could have been used elsewhere. That's probably the worst decision. And I wouldn't mind if I don't think I made it for the wrong reasons.
00:55:46:08 - 00:56:04:06
Unknown
Yeah. You think you did a rose colored lens analysis of the next opportunity because of your current situation? Check. Most transferable skill from Navy Seals to entrepreneurial wisdom.
00:56:04:08 - 00:56:30:08
Unknown
The most transferable or the most relevant, most relevant good I would say the most relevant is the the ability to be honest with yourself. The culture of debriefing, the self-assessment that that to me is like critical. It goes to the customer discovery piece. It goes to being able to like work with a team and not have an ego and be, you know, like when you're making a mistake and the team is telling you, hey, we think we're going in the wrong direction and being willing to listen to that.
00:56:30:10 - 00:56:42:12
Unknown
That that came from my service. You know, you talked about this a little bit, but, military skill that you had to unlearn in the civilian world after after getting out.
00:56:42:14 - 00:57:01:11
Unknown
The. Yeah, definitely. The, the, the ability to hear know so like or the, the inability to hear know I guess is something I had to, to unlearn. Yeah. And that was a challenge for me. It's still honestly to be honest, like ten years later, 11 years later, it's still hard for me a lot of times. Yeah, it's more just like knowing to turn it off.
00:57:01:11 - 00:57:44:02
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. Is there a book that you read that shifted your thinking about business or entrepreneurial ism? I'm a big reader, so that's, actually a hard question. The if I, if I focus it specifically on business, a little bit of recency bias here, but the book, Deep Work by Cal Newport, changed a lot of the way I like structure my day and do, productive work and thinking about, like, emails and text messages, as kind of busywork and noise and then like, more heavy lifting thinking tasks, like making sure you actually cut out time in your day and you know how to prepare yourself for them and shut out
00:57:44:02 - 00:58:03:04
Unknown
some of that noise and even like scheduling time in your, in your calendar for emails and texts. Yeah, I used to be the guy. I joke my my CTO for my first company. I think you don't respond to text. You're not fast enough. We got to like we need to hear from you all the time. And he's like, dude, I'm sitting here coding like an algorithm that can predict these orbits of satellites better than the US government.
00:58:03:04 - 00:58:21:04
Unknown
Like, give me a break. And I used to give him a lot of shit or a lot of it's to give em a lot of, flack for it. And, you know, now, looking back, I realize, like, to do that kind of work, you really need to shut out the noise. So that one was was, I think one that really put a lot of things in.
00:58:21:04 - 00:58:23:20
Unknown
And,
00:58:23:21 - 00:58:44:16
Unknown
It helped change a lot of the way I go about my daily routine. Yeah, that's actually a great segue to the final rapid fire question. How you structure first thing you do in the morning, how you structure your day? My day. I currently have a four year old, a three year old and a two year old. So I do not have very much decision making power on that front.
00:58:44:18 - 00:59:04:14
Unknown
If I had my choice, it would be wake up, go work out. But right now it's wake up, hang with the kids for a little bit. They go off to to daycare and then I go to the gym. For me, that's I think that's probably a recurring theme here too. But, that's my meditation exercise, a lot of different forms of exercise.
00:59:04:14 - 00:59:24:14
Unknown
But that's if I don't exercise in the morning, even if it's a little bit delayed because my kids now my day is, is thrown off and I can't focus and I don't feel good. And, so for me that that's like the anchor in the day. And then the other big, I think, like, fixed piece of my schedule is wind down at the end of the day.
00:59:24:16 - 00:59:39:04
Unknown
So I'm, I'm very adamant about sleep and, and making sure that I, you know, stay away from my phone, the first hour of the day usually. And the last two hours of the day doesn't mean I don't check it occasionally or if I get a text that's super important. But, you know, it's it's off to the side.
00:59:39:04 - 00:59:57:15
Unknown
I'm not I'm not using using it routinely and, making sure I can actually, like, wind down and slow down at the end of the day, I love that we're going to do 17 seasons of tactical wealth and all anybody's ever going to remember is like, go workout, you know, that is that is our major. But it's true.
00:59:57:16 - 01:00:18:02
Unknown
It's it's how you keep the knife sharp. Yeah. For sure. I say it over and over again. It's there's like, even if you look at some of the top, like the most academic figures in the history of the world, a lot of them preached about, you know, walking and having their brainstorm ideas or sleeping too, but like exercise, whether in whatever form.
01:00:18:04 - 01:00:41:09
Unknown
At this point, it's blatantly obvious that it helps brain health and encourages productivity. Amazing. Citing the health reasons, of course. Amazing. Well nourished. I want to thank you so much for being here. Where can people find out more about version Bravo if they're interested either as a student, as a supporter? Yeah. So version bravo.com is our website.
01:00:41:11 - 01:01:02:19
Unknown
You'll have all the information there. Other than that, LinkedIn. So we have a version Bravo page for LinkedIn or my, LinkedIn page. I'm not on other social media platforms. So that's, that's you'll have to find us in one of those two places. Amazing. Amazing. Well thank you. There is so much wisdom, I think, contained just within this episode.
01:01:02:19 - 01:01:20:16
Unknown
And, I am a I am who I am because of being a product and protege of yours. So thank you so much for joining us. And it's, it's an honor to be on this, this journey. I, I know this is just mid stage of our process. We're going to do a lot of big things in the future.
01:01:20:18 - 01:01:43:16
Unknown
Yeah, man, I appreciate you having me here. It's it's an honor for me. Seriously. Great. Thanks for the good stuff. Yeah, yeah. All right. Thanks for walking in with us today. Shout out to C our and Siebert Financial for supporting our journey. We'll be back next week with another powerhouse conversation. More founders, more builders and leaders who are playing offense in life and in business.
01:01:43:18 - 01:01:52:12
Unknown
Make sure you're subscribe to our YouTube channel for exclusive content and extended cuts of your favorite episodes. Until next week. Stay tactical, stay driven.